Looks as though I too will be leaving HP

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   pinkyleeposted 13 years ago

   I was just informed that one of my hubs is substandard because it is to personal. Well I have read many more that are more personal than this one that was flagged is. I will be removing my hubs and moving on with them somewhere where they will be appreciated.
   
   Thanks to all my hubber friends here on HP I will miss you all

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can you post the url so everyone can take a look.

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      most of my hubs are personal & I've seen many people write personal hubs.  Only one (not a personal one, but about a very sensitive topic) was banned from ads.
      
      What was it about?

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      DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This happened to me and I was indignant at first!  I feel your frustration!  After I got over being upset, I reworked them to include advice for people going through the same type of situations, resubmitted, waited a few days, and they were accepted.  I'm going to take the ideas for ones that are really personal and put them somewhere else.
      Don't throw out the baby with the bath water!

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   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   Pinky I know it mustn't feel too good, I've had a hub pulled before and it is deflating.
   
   The site owners have got to tighten up across the board, so I reckon we're all open to having some of our hubs graded substandard.
   
   What's happened a week or so back is not good for the site as a whole and I fully appreciate why HP feel that it's time to take a closer look at what's being published, what doen't fit in, what needs to go or be revised.
   
   If your hub is classed as personal, can you not broaden it out? Sometimes, personal events can be shared in a way that they offer help, information and advice to the reader. I don't know what your hub contained, so I'm winging it here.

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      pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Frogdropping you are one of the few that has always been there for me through the entire year I have been here. I thank you for that from the deepest parts of my heart. You are an amazing person as is Brian, KCC, Cags, Mega, Faybe, Stevennix and so many others.

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         frogdroppingposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I missed your reply Pinky, in and among the others.
         
         Thank you for that, I am touched at your response. If you do go ahead with your plan to move off-site, make sure you let us know where your new home is going to be.
         
         You can write, your thoughts, opinions and experiences are important and I hope that you don't let what's happened hold you back. We're all feeling very *meh* right now, no one has anything definitive to say, we're all kind of fumbling around in the dark, trying to find the walls again!
         
         Sincerely, I hope you find your walls again

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   pinkyleeposted 13 years ago

   I understand what they are doing but the thing that I feel they really should be tightening up on is the hubs that contain only pictures or very little information.
   
   As I have said I have read plenty of hubs that are similar to the one I am talking about however the staffs answer is to flag them all if they are primarily personal or what not. I am not gonna flag everyone's hubs so I just assume save them the time and effort by removing myself from the site.
   
   I write on a personal level when I write and I write about things I know (meaning I have personal experience with it) or things I am passionate about.
   
   I have hubs that are sure to be removed because they merely celebrate a hubber's birthday. I did 12 months of these. A total of 7 hubs as some months did not have any birthdays that I knew of. So I know these will be pulled as well as many others and it upsets me because sometimes it helps someone just to read about someone pulling through an experience.
   
   Like I said I will miss everyone I have come to know and love but I will not put hard work into something that will be flagged as substandard a month later and be pulled.

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      BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I can understand you are feeling pretty low at the moment but don't over react. I agree with Froggy and KCC  you can amend the hub. We all agree that Hp's has to tighten things up a bit, there are going to be plenty of people getting upset because they don't agree with new changes over the next few months, but the site has served you well. Think again before making any concrete decisions.

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         pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         For the time being I have unpublished all but two. By the end of the week those will be unpublished as well.  I don't mind the changes and I fully believe it was not HP staff that flagged this hub I think it was someone I pissed off but either way it just draws attention to me and now they are gonna be looking at all of my hubs and then I will be down to practically none. I had poems I published on here, birthday hubs in honor of the ones that responded to my birthday thread, hubs on funny stuff, informational hubs, and others all very personal. These hubs have been fine in the past but with the new changes I don't feel I am an important part of the site anymore if I ever was lol. I do think the changes are going to be great however I don't see where I fit into them and I, unlike many others am willing to admit that.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Pinky, that's impossible!  Yes, it is possible someone "flagged" your Hub (meaning, they reported it to HubPages).  But that doesn't cause the Hub to be unpublished.  All that does is, put the Hub on a list for the HubPages team to look at it.
            
            HP staff aren't silly enough to unpublish something just because some individual didn't like it. They make their own decisions based on HubPages' publishing criteria.  So it was the HP staff that "flagged" this Hub.  I'm sure if you emailed them, they'd give you more detail.

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               Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Marisa, you're right, of course. But being on that list might mean that a better hub will be scrutinized while a hub that is truly not in compliance will skate by. Fairness has to have uniform enforcement, and there's just so much out there right now that the bad guys are getting away with. I'm not blaming anyone, really, but we have to be extra careful not to turn state's witness against each other at such a critical juncture for all of us.

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            BRIAN SLATERposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Pinkylee you can't leave and un publish your hubs just because you think you, quote "pissed some body off". God, I piss plenty of people off everyday probably, but that doesn't mean I take my content to somewhere else.
            If you think someone, quote " has it in for you" then start writing under a sock puppet name.
            If you think hp's doesn't like your content because it's personal that is a matter for you think about. Personal stuff is becoming more under scrutiny, but you can change direction.
            I don't like the idea that you feel you are being forced into this decision, now that is something that will piss people off.

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            Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            @Pinkylee. I have a question here. Not that I've ever read any of your things (precisely because they are personal), I'm interested in why, when HupPages is NOT a blog site, you would want to publish your personal stories here. Why not do it on a blog site?
            
            HubPages, the way I understand it, is a content farm, i.e. writer write information dense articles for readers who are looking for information on various topics (not personal lives).

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               Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               LOL now you are going to get flamed
               
               Hi Sophia, how are you doing?

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Misha,
                  
                  Nice to hear from you. Yes, I probably will get flamed. That's the price of having old fashioned common sense values these days...
                  
                  I'm still trying to learn the finer points of all this stuff. On Saturday, I'm going to hubcamp and am looking very forward to it.
                  
                  So, how are you doing with all the changes on hub pages. Has it affected you at all?

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                     Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I think it did, but much less than it affected other people. Up (or down?) to the point that I can't really distinguish this effect from regular traffic fluctuations that are always there. However, if I look only on Google traffic, effect seems to be more pronounced, yet still not dramatic. Yahoo and Bing help to smooth this out almost entirely.
                     
                     Have a great time at Hubcamp, I am sure you will have a lot of fun

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        What I have noticed is that my dollar earnings are getting back to what they were prior to this bump in the road. However, my traffic is somewhere between half and a third of what it used to be. Plus, whereas before virtually all my traffic was from search engines, it's now mostly HP. So, I'm wondering if it's just accident that people are clicking on more expensive ads and I've just been lucky for a few days or whether the nature of the ads on the site have changed. Alternatively, the hubs that now get traffic is so focused that these are serious people bent on solutions and, therefore, more likely to click on ads.
                        
                        what do you think?

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                           lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I think you should start a new thread instead of hijacking this one for your own personal gain.

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                              Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              @lynnechandler. Presumptions are the evidence of a lack of adequate reasoning and minuscle education.

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                                 frogdroppingposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 That was uncalled for. Truly.

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                                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Are you talking about lynnchandler's remark about my posting here for personal gain?
                                    
                                    I agree - it was uncalled for. And it was also a presumption.

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                                 lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I wasn't presuming anything. I was simply stating a fact that if you would like to discuss how things are affecting people then you should start a thread to that effect. What you were discussing had nothing to do with the topic at hand and if that is a LACK of adequate reasoning and minuscule education on my part that is just too bad.

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                                 Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 LOL LynnChandler is PinkyLee's mother.

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                                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Well, if you think about it, lots of threads get highjacked. It happens all the time. Part of forum life.

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                                       Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Some people tend to take it quite personally, and this is not the case when I am willing to press my right to highjack any thread. Just join any of a number of threads already discussing it, or open your own.

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                                       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       And, Hi-jacking threads is actually against forum rules. Forum threads are suppose to stay on topic.

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               pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I really think your snooty attitude stinks as much as my cats poop! I think you need to go in a think about the hubs you have written because I came across three or four that benefit no one at all! But I am not on to flag someone though I can guarantee you are!
               I don't like your attitude here or the attacking of me when you clearly have no reason to without knowing me or having read anything I have written.
               
               Yes threads get hijacked however you are doing it for your own personal benefit!
               
               You want to talk about something then start one of your own. I really am sick of people on here that think they are better than everyone else!

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  How very interesting.
                  
                  You took time to read my hubs and you found some that didn't benefit anyone at all? Obviously, we move in very different circles. More than that, however, you've been here 14 months. I've been here three. I have close on 40,000 hits. You've not even managed 10,000 yet. I'll let the figures speak for themselves.
                  
                  I haven't in the least attacked you. You, on the other hand, are attacking my attitude by telling me it stinks as much as your cat's poop (you forgot the apostrophe).
                  
                  When threads are highjacked, it is no more for personal benefit than when a conversation meanders from one topic to another. It is the way natural, organic conversation happens.
                  
                  It is irrelevant whether I know you or not. I have not attacked you. I merely mentioned that I don't read personal stuff and asked why you would want to publish personal blogs on a content farm? That is a rational question. It is not an attack.
                  
                  Of course, if the answer is less than flattering, it might feel like an attack.
                  
                  The other thing is that when one publishes one's thoughts in the public domain, it is assumed that one publishes them because one wants a response. Sometimes, that response is negative. Not everybody is sympathetic or admiring of people who hang out their emotional stuff in public. That's the price one pays for publishing in the public domain.
                  
                  I have finished my conversation with Misha privately. I'll allow you to conduct yours in peace.

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                     pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Personally I think that you think you are better than the next. You want to talk about how many views someone has had however you don't know why they don't have as many. Life sometimes gets in the way and articles have to be put on hold. Weather  you attacked me directly or indirectly is the point here. You don't know me nor do you know what I have written therefore to ask the question of why I would put personal stuff here when it is a blog type article and not content farm related is crazy. I do not write hubs on a personal level as journal entries as you are insinuating. Though if you had read my hubs you would know that. Obviously I have not had the time to write over a hundred hubs in 3 months but your picture hub is not of any benefit to anyone it is merely a hub on a woman that you consider one of your favorite woman, let's not forget the story hubs you have that are of no benefit to anyone other than merely reading part of your story. It is not of any content that is going to benefit someone.
                     I would suggest simply backing off of me and not saying anything else to me!
                     
                     I will say this though my statement was written in anger at your uncalled for statements here in this thread and I should not have stooped to such a low level but I stand firm in thinking you are not a very nice person.
                     
                     Have a nice day!

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   KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

   Pinkylee, I don't want you to go.  I'm with Frogdropping, can't you re-evaluate the hub and broaden it so that it can still be utilized as an informative/perspective type hub?  Don't pull everything just over one!

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      pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I could but with the way I write it would still end up to personal to HP staff and all. Thank you for always supporting me and being there for me KCC.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hey you,
         
         Don't think you're going anywhere.
         
         It's not fair personal articles are pulled and I'm still waiting for HP to pull my article on my Dad. So, don't feel bad about it being pulled, just modify it.
         
         It's too important to you, with regards to age of Hubs.
         
         And, if necessary, I'll hunt you down.

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            pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I really don't know what I am gonna do right now. For the time being I pulled all but two of my hubs. All of the hubs I have done are very important to me which is the main reason I am upset. I could deal with it if I was writing only informational hubs on things that mean absolutely nothing to me nor that I know about but you are one of few that knows just how passionate I am

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I am just as passionate as you are about your hub, with my hubs. The simplest solution is to create something that people can take away from the hub, like a life lesson. That's the biggest thing Pinkylee and you could simply change some words to obtain/achieve that goal.
               
               Use your passion and good heartedness to give people a simple informative message. I have faith you can do that much.

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               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I understand your viewpoint, Pinky.  I am primarily a creative writer, if I have my druthers, but most content sites frown on such as they seldom earn much money.  But it is possible to do some of both if you go about it correctly.
               
               I hope you change your mind or else I'll have to tell your momma on you! 

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                  May PLposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know you nor have I read your hubs, but looks like you have a lot of friends here as well as supporters. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do.

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                     pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for that and for not passing judgment on me

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                  pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Tell my mama! lol I ain't scared of you haha I am scared of them snakes though!

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            Hmrjmr1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Pinky - I'm with Cags on this one I'll hunt you down girl, you'll always be looking over your shoulder, Don't quit kiddo.

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               pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               HAHA you will have to go all the way to SC to hunt me down hehe

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   Pcunixposted 13 years ago

   I have a few personal hubs too.
   
   If they have to go, so be it.  They were written only to get some emotions out and I will find some other place for them. They make no money, so why should I care where they are?

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   lynnechandlerposted 13 years ago

   I knew this was going on of course I did she is my daughter, but this really saddens me. There are some really good hubs out there hers included that are written from the heart.
   
   If personal is substandard, then too shouldn't creative writing be pulled, you know all those story hubs, or the picture hubs, or even poetry?
   
   I thought the idea here was to be like a magazine only in the online sense of things. Do many magazines not include all forms of writing?
   
   I've done my share of hub hopping in the last week and it is really sad to see some of the stuff out there that is being published. Pinky came to the site because I encouraged her because I knew she liked to express herself through her writing. She started slow and with guidance improved greatly over the course of the last year even with all the trials and tribulations going on in our personal life. If we are to take HP at its word on personal hubs then they are stifling young writers.
   
   I understand that they got slapped, but it isn't just them getting slapped it is all of us as a community of loving writers. Yes, we argue like brother and sister in the forums, some get banned because of their actions, but in the end we have a healthy respect for one another that brings us together to help those that are just starting out. If you continue to stifle the new writer you will have nothing on this site but product hubs and the like. There will be no creative side and shouldn't any magazine whether it be in print on paper or online have a creative side?
   
   I'm trying to stay objective about this but I have seen how much this young author has overcome from the first tentative baby steps of the newly formed hub to a beautifully passionate writer.
   
   I am severely torn in my impressions here.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

   Writing from personal experience has value to HP and to Google.  Many of us have personal hubs, including myself.  A moderator must have felt the hub in question was "too" personal. 
   
   Don't assume that if they pull one hub that the others are next. I still think your best bet is to tweak the one hub and republish it.  Republish all of the others you have taken down and do not take them down until HP forces you to.  In the meantime, you could tweak them yourself if you wanted to.
   
   HP is still on outlet to express your feelings.  I think we have to consider how much we have to say contributes to the community and internet users as a whole.

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   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   Lynne the problem (and I guess misunderstanding) with personal hubs is that they often resemble a journal entry, similar to what blogs (web logs = blogs) started out as years ago.
   
   It was fashionable, and to be fair I came across some fantastic blogs down the years, personal or not. But - there has to be a line and whilst it seems unfair ( poems, stories, blog-type posts) that's the rule.
   
   Were I pinky I'd email the team for clarification. It may well be that all she needs to do is expand on what she wrote about. There are many ways that we can use personal events as a means to enrich the lives of others, without them coming across as being little more than an online journal entry.
   
   The best way for your daughter to keep flexing her writer's wings is to keep writing, whether on HubPages or on a blog.

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   lynnechandlerposted 13 years ago

   It wasn't a journal type entry and I guess that is what has us disheartened. It was a hub on her goals for the new year. A resolution type hub. Were there some grammatical errors, yes and she fixed them and sent it back in. So, in light of what HP had to say about it, instead of writing about her resolutions she should have just written a piece on resolutions and then included her own and it wouldn't have been flagged.
   
   I, as well as, everyone on the site needs to take a healthy look at their own writing. I think there needs to be an announcement regarding what will be accepted now and what won't instead of them telling us to flag hubs that we think might be against the TOS. That way if we have a guideline to go with, we can start with our own hubs and that means each and every one of us, then once those are fixed, we can help weed out the dreck. I personally don't think that hub hopping is the way to go with this because we are all susceptible to our moods and depending on how a piece hits us in inadvertently flag a hub that really is written by someone who just needs a little guidance not a slap in the face.
   
   I will be taking a very hard look at my own hubs over the next week and deciding what to do with each one of them. I challenge you all to do the same before you do any more hub hopping and criticizing of other hubbers work.

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      Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You make a good point. I always felt that it was up to the readers to decide whether they think a hub is worth reading. It doesn't make sense for us to go attacking each other now, when the problem was created by an outside force. Lisa HW wrote a very good hub about not going on a witch hunt.

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    lrohnerposted 13 years ago

    I don't know PinkyLee, but it is still sad to see a good hubber go and I hope you reconsider.
    
    That aside, I'm perplexed that people are surprised at hubs being taken down. What is acceptable and what is not is out there in black and white in the FAQs and has been for a very long time. They define "personal" as "meaningless to someone who doesn't know you." If yours doesn't meet that criteria, then I would contact the team about it. I've heard Maddie say that they have some new moderators on there and perhaps a mistake was made? I've seen some hubs that are informational and educational, but that use the hubber's personal experiences to get the point across. That's certainly not what HP meant, I'm sure, as substandard material.
    
    And when I hubhop, at least, I don't flag anything just because I don't like it, and I hope others aren't doing that either. I go strictly by the standards that HP has set out. I don't consider that criticizing other people's work or going on a witch hunt. I view it as doing my part to protect what I've invested here at HP in time and effort. Google didn't just smack us for no good reason. I'm sure the HP rules are all around what Google wants and doesn't want, and I'll bet we see even more changes coming up.

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    Aya Katzposted 13 years ago

    I respect the HP rules and strive to live within them, but I think that it's better to leave it to HP to enforce the rules, because staff are at least trained to understand what the rules mean.
    
    I don't think HP deserves the penalty imposed on us by Google and I don't believe that we brought this on ourselves by bad behavior. If you try searching using Google now, you can see that the engine is broken, and some of our best as well as our worst have been penalized equally.  So let's stand by each other in these hard times.

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       lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       HP does enforce the rules -- not HubHoppers. Flagging a hub just brings it to their attention. Whether they take any action or not is up to them. They set the system up that way for the reason you stated -- none of us are trained to understand the rules.

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    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    As lrohner said the overly personal criteria has been in place for a while. Even before the recent Google smackdown, HP has increased its enforcement of its policies. Numerous hubbers have mentioned hubs of substantial age being taken down my HP staff.
    
    It seems as though it's more than possible to tweak the hubs and republish them. Almost everywhere you write, you face having to conform to other people's standards and editors.
    
    The only alternative would be a personally-owned site, with no google adsense on it.

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    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Despite the strident tone of some hubbers this past week about hub hopping, I can't equate HubPages enforcement with the McCarthy hearings.
    
    It's never easy to hear that something is substandard. That's really an unfortunate label for some of the hubs that are coming down. I prefer to think of them as incompatible with the policies of HubPages.

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       lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       This, yes this is what I was talking about when it comes to slapping a hub with this label. Instead of it being considered substandard with a form letter response from the hub team, wouldn't it be more worth their money making efforts and the hubber in questions money making potential to offer up some constructive criticism that the hubber can then take to make the hub conform to the standards of HP?

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       wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You are absolutely right, Nelle - the term substandard, or low quality, can be and often is misleading.  Rather many of the hubs in question are simply incompatible.

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       Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think you coined the very good term. If I were HP team, I would have certainly implemented it.

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          DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I absolutely agree!  "Substandard" makes it sound like you are a poor writer and is honestly a very vague term covering way too much territory.  Trust me, I have hubhopped and seen some poor writing on HP and personal content hubs are definitely not "substandard." But due to the new guidelines, there has to be more...advice...life lessons...moral of the story, etc. I get that now.  New wording would definitely be beneficial and less devastating to new writers (or old ones!) so we don't lose some really great writers on this site.

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       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I agree: incompatible is a better word in some cases.
       
       But there ARE substandard hubs and we all know them when we see them.

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    2besureposted 13 years ago

    Don't stop writing.  HubPages is not as strict as you would think.  I used to write for eHow for about three years and had about 50 articles removed for one reason or another. 
    
    Howbeit, after going back a year latter and reading the copies of my articlse that were dumped, I realized many of them were pretty bad.
    The good thing is, I have become a better writer and I still make about $600 a month from eHow. 
    
    There are many writing sites out there; but any that are any good and pay well, will have writing standards. Some writing sites, do not publish your articles until they have be approved. 
    
    I just read you two hubs and liked your writing.  You are better than I was when I started.  I hope you stay, but if you don't good luck!

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    recommend1posted 13 years ago

    It is both unneccesary and unreasonable to leave bcause of this kind of issue - if the hub is substandard, or does not fit the policy then change it.
    
    Or are you suggesting that HP are pulling hubs that are not substandard ?
    
    Or are you just moving to a site that fared better in the google change than HP and using this as the excuse ?

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       lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       They are not substandard or of low quality. HP is making changes in hubs that are of too personal of a nature thus they are pulling them and calling them substandard when in reality it should be said that they don't fit the mold anymore.
       
       We had a very long weekend here and have looked over the hubs that she pulled and will be working to either put them back up here with some major changes or she will put them up elsewhere when she gets done moving and gets internet back.
       
       To suggest that this is an excuse to exit to a different venue when you have only been here 3 weeks and don't know her or the support she got when I underwent a major life threatening heart operation is an insult to her and me. We have made a lot of friends here and those friends come together when something happens in our lives as well as us coming to bat for them. If you had been here and knew her and how hard she worked to accomplish just getting through the first hub, you wouldn't even suggest such a thing.

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          Shil1978posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The word "substandard" is an automated message that shows up to the best of my knowledge. It is not an opinion someone has, personally, of the hub. As a site, HubPages does need to have certain rules in place. I've been over at various other writing sites and none that I am familiar with allow content that is of a personal nature. That said, most hubbers have at one point in time or other written content that is of a personal nature, including me. I guess it depends as to the degree to which it is personal.
          
          However, with the algorithm changes, I guess HP needed to look at the issue more strictly. It would be unfortunate if anyone leaves because of any of their hubs being labeled "substandard." As I said before, as far as I know, it is an automated message that shows up. If you disagree, the option to mail HP is available and should be used.
          
          As writers who write at other sites would tell you - having articles rejected is common and shouldn't be taken personally. I hope she stays!!

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             lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I know it is common and we know the word is automatically generated. Are there some hubs in question that need to be fixed so they aren't so personal? Yes. Are there hubs that cannot be fixed because of this? Yes. I'm not going to let her give up, just because of a form letter that came in answer to her question of her hub being flagged.
             
             As I said, the insult came from Recommend1 who has not been here long enough to state such a suggestion without knowing her or what she has overcome to even put her writings out there.
             
             I again, reiterate that all of us need to evaluate our own hubs first before going on the attack with the hub hopper or any other means of looking at hubs. I will be doing this to my own as well as helping Pinky with hers if she needs it. Her work won't be lost, nor will she lose the income she is generating from them no matter what she does with them, but that is not really the issue here.
             
             As others have stated, as well as yourself, HubPages does need to have rules in place, however I don't think they need to classify all flagged hubs as substandard. If a hub is flagged for this reason and it is just because the hub in question does not fit with their guidelines for the future, then a note from staff saying that instead of just a generated form letter would be much more appropriate.
             
             It is hard for new writers to even get out of the shoot sometimes and this substandard form letter can shoot them down to the point where they will feel inadequate. It doesn't give them a clear answer as to what the problem was with the hub. If staff is to small to do this maybe there is a way to set up a mentoring group, I don't know, but I hate to see others getting slapped in the face and not really being told why.
             
             I myself have helped a few newbies behind the scenes to generate a lesser quality of hub into something more substantial. Many are getting into the writing to generate income without fully knowing what that means. I know when I started this process two years ago, I had no clue and as such got slapped down and that is when I found HP. I really believe this is a great community and if we all pull together then it can become even better.
             
             There have been suggestions for cleaning up the hubs and hub hopping to do this, but really take a look at your own (not just you, but everyone on the site) writings. Is there room for improvement and a way to conform to the standards which everyone of you who is hub hopping sets by flagging a hub. The standards bar has been raised, let's get out there and make a difference by starting with our own works.

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                lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                There is a ton of garbage on this site that needs to be cleaned up and the HP team needs help doing it. To call that going "on the attack" is ludicrous.
                
                Whether HP enforced the rules in the past or not is irrelevant. They are enforcing them now, as is their right. People who took advantage of the lax enforcement in the past are going to have hubs unpublished. That's just the way it is. There's nothing personal about it.

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                   lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I realize they need help but my suggestion is go on an attack of your own hubs first and when you are truly well and satisfied that they conform to the new standards, then and only then start hub hopping to help the HP staff get the rest of the site clean. I was in no way suggesting that HP staff is going on the attack. It is the everyday hubber who looks at a hub and flags it. Education by re-evaluating your own hubs first is a better plan. When you can say you have done that and they are the best they can be, then step in to help. So, it is off I go to start working on my own hubs. I wish everyone the very best.

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                Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                "It is hard for new writers to even get out of the shoot sometimes and this substandard form letter can shoot them down to the point where they will feel inadequate."
                
                You don't surely expect HP staff to email each person that writes a substandard hub or breaks the rules to get a sweet, personally addressed letter to the offender, do you?

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                   DIYweddingplannerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   No, but what I would suggest is a checklist form where HP staff could just run down the list and check what is wrong instead of a broad label called "substandard." It would have eliminated alot of back and forth e-mails for me and the HP staff if that had happened with the ones of mine that were pulled down.

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                   frogdroppingposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I don't. But it wouldn't be overly diffcult to formulate replies that are indicative of what's wrong with a hub, according to what substandard category it falls into:
                   
                   Your hub is classed as substandard because it reads too personal, much like what you would expect to see on a blog about personal events, experiences and so forth. If you can ammend it to include something of higher value to your reader, such as useful advice, what you felt you could have avoided with hindsight, where to seek help or advice, that would improve your hub and enable it for republishing.
                   
                   The above for a hub flagged as substandard due to it being 'too personal'.
                   
                   I don't know, maybe the HP admin are looking into this. Right now (though) I suspect they're all extremely busy with the google fallout. I should think that they are as it affects all on this site.
                   
                   For that reason, were I to have one of mine flagged as substandard, I'd suck it up and improve it. And that because I'm not as sensitive as some are to what may feel like criticism.
                   
                   But I'm not everyone and there's nothing wrong with having some sympathy and understanding for how it's made Pinky feel. By far she is not the only one to make such a mistake and quite honestly, I'd rather the site was filled up with hubbers like Pinky than the type that continually use HP as a dumping ground for their spam and low quality linking crap and similar.
                   
                   And Misha's. Despite his bad press, he writes worthy content and would you believe ... goes the extra mile when someone bothers to ask him for help

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                      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Ah Andria, you made me blushing ♥

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                   lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   I never said that they should write a personal little message to everyone, but a clearer explanation would be great. Even a change of the wording would be great. It's whatever, they have the right to do as they see fit, it was just a suggestion.
                   
                   I've taken all my hubs down and will be reworking them so for now toodles. This is going to take some time and introspection.

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                      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      This is a serious mistake. If you have them down for a while, search engines will forget they existed, and you will start totally afresh when you finally publish them back. You will lose a lot of traffic for a long time. Work on them while they are still online, this way you don;t lose anything.

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                         lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         Misha, I appreciate the advice but I'm really not making that much and I needed to do this for a long time. Taking into account what I have learned about SEO and writing online in general and revamp the hubs. This is my wake up call to do just that and they will come back stronger and better than ever.

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                            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            Your call of course, and good luck with it

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                      Penteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      I have to strongly agree with Misha on this point. You will lose a lot of SERP points by keeping your hubs down.
                      
                      I have read of several hubbers who wrote a bunch of hubs, made little money, and finally gave up. They decided that it was a complete waste of time.
                      
                      A year or two later, their hubs seemed to hit that critical and magical time point where traffic picked up and the next thing they know is that MONEY is starting to flow their way. Their hubs just needed to "stew" a while.

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                         lynnechandlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         Pente,
                         
                         You and Misha do have a point but I do believe they can be revamped and back up soon. There are a lot of them that need that special touch, lol.
                         
                         Don't worry I'm on it and glad to see that the hub team replied here about the issue of wording. It makes all the difference in the world to know they are there for us.

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          recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I was here through all that emotional period, I was here when she 'joined' - although not in this avatar. 
          
          I did say if they were EITHER substandard OR did not fit the polcy or the mold as you put it.
          
          Either way - quitting Hubpages over it is an over-emotional response to perceived criticism - when a re-write is all that is required to fit the new 'policy'.  Hence the very reasonable questions I asked,
          
          . . especially with regard to the dramatic leaving.  Most people who are dissatisfied just go.

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    skyfireposted 13 years ago

    Pinkylee, if you want to post something personal then it's better to host it on your personal(or anonymous) blog on wordpress.com/your own site. Note that unlike blogger, wordpress team is not going to delete blogs without notifying you or label your content substandard. Hubpages is going to be more strict in future and due to low traffic/earnings even members are going to react daftly. I've already noticed attacks on poets/short story writers for so-called substandard content guidelines. Non-native writers are looked down as spammer and so you can see there is a lot of witchhunt going on here after Google Update. Writers community with commercial interest is going to react in similar way if their revenue source is disturbed, so don't take these things personally. Take your personal content to a place where there is NO witchhunt. You don't need to leave this place, just try and adapt to the new changes.

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    Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years ago

    Personally, I have no interest in reading other people's personal business.
    
    At school, I dropped one of my journalism courses because the focus was on writing about one's personal life for consumption by those who are curious about the personal lives of others.
    
    It used to be considered bad taste to flaunt one's dirty washing in public. Not so, anymore. These days, it brings adoration and publicity. So, I guess, there's a vested interest in doing so now.
    
    Personally, I'm interested in objective reality, i.e. the Hawaii volcano spouting off this morning, the dying dollar and its approaching burial as it loses its status of reserve currency, and the weather on Mars.
    
    Having said that, I do believe that those who want to write about their personal stuff should have the freedom to do so - provided the host is okay with it. I mean, if you had a guest in your home, and they suddenly started stripping, you might be perfectly happy if it was orgy time, but not so happy if it was the office party...

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    lynnechandlerposted 13 years ago

    My apologies, to you then if you were well and truly here. I still see it as offensive to say it is an excuse.
    
    The thread was created to let her fellow hubbers whom she respects know where she had gone, this was done while I was resting as I'm still recouping from the surgery somewhat. I have since talked with her at length and she sees where things can be changed to conform to the new standards. Not all of her hubs will be able to be put back up, but most with a little tweeking.
    
    This was in no way a flounce on her part, she doesn't flounce. Like I said she just wanted to let her followers know what had happened because as of next week she will be without internet until it gets set up at her new residence.

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    pinkyleeposted 13 years ago

    First of all I do not write substandard material. Are some of my hubs of personal nature? Yes they are but they have a point to them and are written to help others who might be going through the same thing I have had to endure!
    
    I am not now nor have I ever been stuck up in thinking that  my work can not be improved! Yes it can. The fact that some of you act as though you have no workings at all on a personal level is bullshit! I have gone in and found at least one hub on each and everyone of your profiles. I am not a bitch like HP wants me to be and going to flag these hubs. I don't want it done to me therefore not gonna do it to someone else.
    
    To say that I only write journal type entries or articles is insane when you don't even know me. There are quite a few here who do know me and whom have read every article I have written. I have never had bad feedback from anything I have written personal or not.
    
    I know that HP does not flag profiles or hubs, rather it be people whom instead of saying how they feel to someone go in and flag them to bring attention to them.
    
    If you don't know me you can't pass judgment on me. If you have never read anything I wrote you too can not pass judgment on me!
    
    As for the dramatic of leaving I said it looks as though I will be leaving and the only reason I said anything is because I do have friends here who actually give a damn about me.
    
    As for weather or not I will repub my stuff IDK yet. There are far more hubs that are flat out crap on here that HP needs to be looking at. I don't care so much that the hub was pulled but more the fact that it was labeled as something it was not. Like I said I may not be the best but I damn sure am not the worst. Most of my hubs as I said are personal with a point behind them!
    
    So get this straight unless you know me DON"T PASS JUDGMENT ON ME! Unless you have read my hhubs DON'T PASS JUDGMENT ON ME!
    
    Have a nice day!

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       Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hubpages have a history of very unfortunate use of labels. "Elite" comes to mind first, but there were others. "Substandard" is in this line, too. Seriously, don't take it personally it has not been meant to.
       
       And I would say one more time that may be it is a time for the team to go back and revise some wording, many conflicts and disappointments could have been avoided if this had been done.

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          pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I could not agree more!

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             Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             We'll take a look at renaming this. We certainly don't mean to offend innocent violations of our policy; the problem is that most of the violations tend to be deliberate, and we have to communicate clearly to those who make conscious decisions to publish Hubs not in compliant with our policy to stop doing so.
             
             It's always helpful to post suggestions in our forum dedicated to user suggestions. We can't guarantee that every suggestion will be implemented, but we do take a look at user suggestions and see what is feasible.

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                pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you for the response! As I have said I understand that there are changes coming and I am not opposed to them however I was simply saying that I may be leaving because of my hub being called substandard as to say it sucks when it dos not suck at all. For the time I am leaving my hubs down and when I get moved and settled I will come back and re-evaluate my work and fix some as I had already planned to do.
                
                I do not however appreciate someone saying things about me that they have no clue as to what they are talking about with not knowing me or reading anything I had written, especially when they themselves have hubs that do not benefit anyone whatsoever.
                
                again thanks for the response and maybe when I get moved and settled I will have decided to stay here as I do love HP and don't want to go but right now I just see no other choice.

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       frogdroppingposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Pinky for those that you feel don't 'get' what your intention was (when starting this thread) there are many more of us that do. 
       
       For sure all this should help you to refocus on what's great about your hubs - i.e. the warmth that comes through for one thing, so don't let the knocks bite too deep.
       
       You're valid, just as much as I or anyone else is. Keep writing
       
       Oh and Jason's suggestion is a great one, if you haven't already taken advantage of it

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          pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks Frog!

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    ThomasEposted 13 years ago

    No writer has lived until they have received their first Marion Zimmer Bradley rejection letter. Not only did it tell you your writing is substandard, in great detail, she also went through with a red pen, and pointed out ever single mistake. 
    
    The hubpages rejection email doesn't have anything on it for sheer, ego crushing effect.
    
    I wouldn't worry about rejection... it is part of the writers life.

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    lynnechandlerposted 13 years ago

    Jason,
    
    Thank you for replying to this and understanding how it can make a person feel. This is one of the reasons I truly love this place and while I have taken down my hubs it is not to say I am leaving but to take this as an opportunity to revamp from what I have learned here over the last 21 months into some awesome hubs that will only be better and fit within the standards you all are trying to set.

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    logic,commonsenseposted 13 years ago

    I guess when I first joined Hubpages 2 years ago, I was under the impression that they encouraged writing.  There was no mention that it was to be for monetary gain only.  Originally, I joined to be a part of a larger community of writers, to learn and to help others that might learn from me, whether it be quality of content.  Sure the income part of it is a bonus, but I thought (naively, perhaps)that the goal was to become a better writer.  To me it seems that in the last year, moneymaking has become the focus and as long as you are ranked high in whatever search engine, you are seen as an asset regardless of the quality of your writing.  At times there seems to be a handful that want to bully their way into making hubpages what they want it to be.  Myself, I do not feel that superior to anyone that makes me think I should be the judge of what they should or should not write.  I leave that up to the staff, after all it is their website.
    That being said, I am changing my focus as well.  I will be writing hubs that will be for commercial gain.  I hope that I will still be able to have hubs published that do not pertain to commercial use when the mood strikes me.  Hubpages has been a very valuable resource for writers of all skill levels, hopefully that will continue to be the case and we can all benefit from it.  If that is not the goal of the owners of Hubpages, then they should just say so, instead of misleading those that are mostly interested in improving their writing. 
    All things must change and sometimes change is not well received, especially when it is abrupt and drastic.  This will pass however and most will roll on until the next change gets their panties in a bunch.
    Don't know about anyone else, but this blip in the road and how people have responded to it has been a very interesting learning experience.
    Good luck to all, things will improve!

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       ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think there are lots of writers on here that don't write for money. That's great. I don't think anything has changed there. I have another account where I put things that won't make me money.
       
       As far as I am aware, the rule they are enforcing here has always existed... they don't want purely personal hubs.

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    Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago

    I was devastated when my second hub was rejected as substandard.  It felt like a hammer blow.  So the idea of renaming the wording sounds like a good idea.
    
    Plus a standard touchy feely bit of text along the lines of we're here to help you improve, blah blah.  Not to write personally for each one but to try to soften the blow a bit.
    
    As for my second hub being sub standard.  Yes, it was.  After a short time contemplating I rewrote it, and they allowed it to be published.
    
    I won't do the normal jokes about the rest of my hubs... because I'm not entirely sure about some of them.

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       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Was this an old hub or a new hub?
       
       I'm just wondering if they are simply paying attention to hubhopping flags (which may have become more frequent) or are really digging back for old content.

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          Mark Ewbieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It was the second one I wrote, four months ago, and was flagged more or less straight away.  So probably Hub Hopped.  Quite rightly rejected, and I don't in retrospect have any problem with it at all.
          
          Although I will say in comparison to some of the hubs you stumble across in the Hopper it was a work of genius and beauty.  But that's in comparison to those.
          
          By the standards of a magazine article it was not fit for publication.

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    Rafiniposted 13 years ago

    Pinkylee,
    
    I hope you get it worked out to your advantage, whatever that may be. 
    
    I'm hoping HP isn't going the way of a true 'e-zine' that will dictate the content and writing style permitted to be published....

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    EmpressFelicityposted 13 years ago

    I've got a question: is the HP team focusing as much attention on taking down all the really spammy, crappy machine-translated/spun hubs as it is on taking down "overly personal" hubs?

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       pinkyleeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Exactly

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    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    Your understanding of HubPages and of "Content Farms" needs to be worked on.

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    lynnechandlerposted 13 years ago

    From Sophia
    "You took time to read my hubs and you found some that didn't benefit anyone at all? Obviously, we move in very different circles. More than that, however, you've been here 14 months. I've been here three. I have close on 40,000 hits. You've not even managed 10,000 yet. I'll let the figures speak for themselves."
    
    This truly concerns me. How does anyone know how many hits someone has or doesn't have? I thought that information was private. Of course, this is probably part of my lack of reasoning and minuscule education.

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    Jason Menayanposted 13 years ago

    Closing at OP's request.

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