At the end of this month, I will have been here at HP for four years.
At first it was interesting, challenging and fun. I met so many fantastic people and talented writers and was inspired to learn and grow and write my heart.
Then, almost imperceptibly things began to change.
Now, I hardly know many of the people who post and write here, I rarely see or hear from those others I referred to above, and bit by bit, I see everything crumbling.
When I came here, I promised myself to "ride the horse until it died". I don't know about anybody else's horse, but right now my own seems to be gasping for air.
It is a very discouraging feeling and one that leads me not to want to write much. I see the same thing happening to others.
This is not good. HP was once one of the most innovative, cleverly put together sites on the web. Now it, too, seems to be gasping for breath.
I hate this. I hate feeling helpless to make things better. I hate knowing that if the site goes down, I am done writing. I've given all I have to this site, and there is nothing left to give to another...even my own.
I hope the team finds a way to salvage what remains and somehow build this site back up to its former glory, but the indications do not seem to be pointing in that direction.
It's a very sad time, right now, for me. I will stay until the end, but I fear it is coming. Others have said that it will, and I really, really hope that they are wrong.
Congratulations for your coming four years of writing here, I have enjoyed your company here in the forum.
I hope HubPages don't close down, I wrote for Squidoo for over three years, have now been here since the transfer, September 2014.
Most of the squids which transferred here have moved on, I'm like you if something happens here it will be the end of my writing too.
I certainly will miss all the new found friends I have made here, HubPages is a wonderful community, very caring and helpful.
I was writing on HubPages as well as Squidoo and there were aspects I loved about each of them. I admit to being upset about the transfer. I was doing very well on Squidoo and I loved Squidoo for what it was - and then my lenses did not transfer well and I did not like that I could not put the content on here in the same manner. I guess you could say I threw a fit. Well, I DID throw a fit. My husband could tell you all about that. I then lost interest in the writing I had already done here. I unpublished the lens/hubs that were under a different name and did not come back for a while.
I hope HubPages does not go under. I have enjoyed being back and have a few new hubs I am working on right now. I enjoy the community, too.
Timetraveler2- Keep on keeping on!
If there were a better site for we weird people who write the things we write,we would all be there, bitching about them.
I look at all of this as an example of the inevitable thing called the evolution of a dynamic society.
Otherwise, without dynamism and acceptance of change, we would all be;
wearing black suits and long curls on the sides of our heads, or
forcing our women to dress in full floor-length dresses and hiding their faces from the world, or
riding in buggies and refusing to use modern technologies,
castrating? our girl children, or,
or, or, or,
Oh hell, you get my point.
The day you stop learning and changing, whether you are a person or a religion, or a business, you are doomed to; first be considered weird, then slowly realize you are dying.
Phew, I sent away ther for a moment, but I'm back, now!
You get my point, Hp is evolving! Let's run with them, for a while, anyway!
I don't plan to go anywhere, but I do plan to become less active...at least until I see an uptick overall for this site.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy though, isn't it? If you are disheartened, and don't make the effort to write new articles to grow the site, then the site won't grow. And when you make announcements such as this one, other people also become disheartened, and don't write new articles either.
I've also seen some veteran Hubbers who recommend that people move their articles elsewhere, for the same reason. They complain that the site isn't doing well, but they are the ones who are making sure that the site doesn't do well.
I don't think there is anybody on this site who has tried harder than I have to write and make this site "grow". Furthermore, what I feel and think and say should have nothing to do with what others decide to do. That is up to each individual and should be based on his or her own experiences, not mine.
If you are suggesting that it is my fault that the site is not doing well, I suggest you rethink what you just said.
This site is not doing well for all of the reasons Mark Ewbie and others have stated.
I have personally never allowed the views of others influence my own decisions, and to think that a few posts on a forum that very few writers read would be the cause of the downfall of an entire website is ludicrous.
I have stated numerous times that I have no plans to leave or to move my articles, write books or do anything other than what I am doing.
What I am saying is that for me, right now, it is difficult to want to write anything when I see that the changes that have occurred have had such a dire effect on my own views.
Surely people aren't that insecure, and surely they are not the sheep you are suggesting they are.
There is nothing self fulfilling about my views. They simply are what they are, which does not mean they cannot change in the future.
I am not blaming you individually and I am not calling people sheep. However, when there is post after post after different Hubber's complaining and saying they are leaving, then anyone new is surely going to have to take into consideration the mass consensus. It also isn't just the forum posts; at some point it also becomes obvious that there are fewer and fewer quality new hubs being written.
I AM saying it is your fault, but it is also MY fault and the fault of other Hubbers on the site who don't write new hubs and who complain without doing anything to help the site. If we have given up, there isn't much hope left for HP.
If you read some of my past posts, you will see that I have been the first person to encourage people to write more and better posts so that this site can thrive. I especially did that following the mass exodus of some of our best writers, and I did my best to follow through as well.
If you read my comments here more carefully, you will see that I never said I plan to leave, only that I plan to slow down right now. There is a big difference in those two things. So please don't lump me in with those who no longer want to be here.
Another point I would make is that there is a difference between negativity and reality. This post was never meant to discourage anybody, only to state my own personal views based on my own situation, which is a very real one, indeed.
If your reality is different from mine, great, but right now, mine is discouraging. Three months ago I would have felt differently, but the change has been immense. You would be discouraged, too, if you were having these issues.
I know that your reply to "self-fulfilling prophecy" is under someone's (other than my) post, but I sure hope you or anyone else thinks that my referring to self-fulfilling prophecy was intended to blame you (or anyone else) for feeling discouraged with whatever your situation is. (Obviously, it's not an encouraging one in your case, and you sure aren't the only one trying to figure out what to do about your own HP situation.)
I've had concerns about the self-fulfilling prophecy thing, but I didn't see your thread/post at all as "one of those negative, HP-bashing, ones". I saw it as you expressing your own lack of "motivation" (or whatever you want to cal it), and I think that makes for good writer-discussion material on here. In spite of my hacked up and/or emptied out accounts (with this one still being a big mess of old stuff that's kind of just there), I was encouraged to see HP get rid of subdomains and do the every-Hub-for-itself) thing because my "well rooted" (in God knows what) and old subdomain had me wondering what I should/shouldn't delete (etc. etc.) and was pretty much looming over any new stuff I considered writing. Now, with the "e-H-for-it" thing it gives longer-time writers with older, less than ideal, Hubs that can't/shouldn't be deleted (at least for awhile more) not only a clean start with each new Hub, but a better idea of which Hubs may be worth fixing up or saving and which ones can now go. Regardless of who, if anyone, looks at writ6er's profiles, there' nothing stopping any one, user, from a having a profile full of the the kind of Hubs he wants to have all on one profile (or not, if they prefer). If people get their own social-site traffic, all the better. (I hope author bio's for Hubs stay., especially if it's now "e-H-for-i".) Anyway, back to the "writers/discouraged" thing, there's a fairly obvious difference between "I'm feeling discouraged about my lower traffic" (or whatever) and "Don't waste your time writing on this site because it's on the way out, just like all the others." I pretty much think most people know the difference. As far as I'm concerned, these forums need a lot more real discussion and a lot less "go click on my Hub and give me feedback" type of threads.
You make a good point, but I'm optimistic that long time users are smart enough to make decisions based on what they see in their own accounts rather than opinions they read on the forum.
New users on the other hand can benefit from these kinds of posts because they often sign up thinking in a couple of months with 50 hubs or so they can be making hundreds of dollars a month, or get a large following with little promotional effort in a few weeks. Better to expose them to negative opinions so they don't get disappointed further down the line.
So, then you agree that it is OK for people to speak truthfully about their situations rather than trying to candy coat them? I would hope so.
The future of HP is written in stone, bottom line. Some of the cheerleaders will be disappointed.
Most of my content has been moved elsewhere as the HP gods deem it suddenly unworthy after sevral years.
Of course I have only had 426,850 views over the years. I have single YouTube videos with more views.
I don't understand the YouTube thing at all.
How does it work? Can you make an income from it? I have wanted to try it, but am not willing to invest in the necessary equipment without knowing more. Maybe that should be my next step?
Advice please. Email me with it if you like. I'd like to know more.
Wow! That's amazing. I've had nearly 400 views on my YouTube video.
I know that kind of feeling. This year 5 sites had crumbled.
Writedge and DTC became revenue sharing sites. Bubblews and Beer money nation closed. Wikinut became FREE community member site. It is natural to have the fear. I am planning to backup everything just in case. I will stay here for the next 10-20 years. If HP continues
I am feeling the same way. I am just hanging in there. I know from experience it's expensive to keep an internet site running. A hosting system is not cheap. Hopefully, Hubpages will figure out how to improve traffic and revenue. With Google it's a "pay to play"...
I've been on HubPages for about 6 years. Initially I wrote a lot and then it was kind of off and on but overall I would say that HubPages has been an excellent opportunity for me as well as others!
It is an excellent community and I think it really depends on each individual person in regards to what they get out of it.
For me it was a steppingstone because it really helped me have more confidence in myself and practice my writing which I love to do.
Also I met a lot of wonderful full people and learned so much and I continue to learn.
It's like anything in life...you have to decide if it's best for you. I tried to look on the bright side of things. We have to stay positive in life.
I will stay for now because I have a lot invested in HubPages. And so do a lot of other writers.
If HubPages is not working the way you want, there are so many other writing opportunities out there.
To me, HubPages is like an old friend. Someone that you got to know over the years and that you visit from time to time. And then once in a while you bring something special to the table, maybe you write a new story or new article or maybe you just visit a couple of pages that other people write.
Last year I decided to join some writing groups on LinkedIn. I ended up winning a short story contest two different months and then I had my stories published in the anthology book. It has been very exciting for me.
And last year I decided to create my own 30 hubs in 30 days challenge on HubPages and although it was a lot of work I felt like it was a wonderful accomplishment after. And now I am writing a lot more on the side and looking into more publishing.
Stay positive TT2 and lets all keep writing!
Good luck to you!!!
easylearningweb, hello! I kinda like your comment here. You sound so positive and very uplifting. I'm new in this site and writing again after many years of not working on any article is helping me cope up with the struggles in life. I am so glad that I discovered hubpages! If only I could have seen this site a few years back then I would have probably written more articles already. Anyway, I'm really excited to write, research and post my thoughts here in hubpages and inspire others to do so. I have never thought of this site to be on the verge of disappearing since I have seen and read hubs for the past few days to be of excellent standards. I appreciate your comment, you are so encouraging! Thanks!
Is it that bad, I've only just started getting going here, wha makes you think this place will close?
I wouldn't take the doomsayers too seriously, just yet. The site has been reorganized and people have lost views but the reorganization still has plenty of time to come right.
Even a cursory look at old threads will reveal that there is always a panic when traffic drops and/or there are changes made to the site or to Google algorithms.
Thanks for the advice Will Adse! I'n new here and I'm enjoying writing new stuff. I intend to write more and read more hubs.
The reason people are worried is that HubPages is the last survivor of the original revenue-sharing sites which were so successful before 2011. In 2011, Google changed its algorithm, so that its search engine no longer favoured rev-sharing sites - and that slashed those sites' income to the point where most of them couldn't survive. HubPages suffered as much of the rest and in spite of valiant efforts (which are still going on), it has only partially recovered in the years since. So members who remember the good times, are always wondering whether it has recovered enough to keep going, or will it follow the rest into oblivion? Some feel they've performed miracles to keep going this long.
There are still revenue-sharing sites around, but they were founded since 2011, often founded by ex-users of those original sites. None of them has ever gone close to matching the income potential of HubPages. So it's very important to many members that HubPages should keep going, because there's really no alternative except to start your own blog - and there's no point doing that if you don't have a specialist subject, because generalist blogs don't work.
I hear you! I'm a constant on again/off again hubpages writer. When I started traffic was slowly picking up and at one point I even got several payouts a few months in a row.... That hasn't happened in YEARS. My writing has stalled, working full-time and having a two year old will do that to you. I come on and edit some articles and fine tune things, eventually I hope to start publishing again. For now I'll cope with the 12 cents a month I current earn.
TimeTraveler2, I have enjoyed your company since I joined 3 months ago. Many of the old writers may be gone, but there's a new batch ready to rock and roll! Let's just reboot and keep writing!
That sounds great, but it will only work if the newcomers really work hard to produce the types of articles that will be well received.
I was just wondering how you meet people by writing a blog on Hub Pages. I have never met any of the other writers or any readers for that matter; everyone is spread out around the globe! Where did you meet all these interesting people?
I met them right here! Although I have never had any "face to face" get togethers, over the years I have built friendships through the forums and through emails that have allowed me to get to know people quite well. It is a shame that we do live so far apart, but it is what it is.
I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling disheartened. I think many writers (even very successful ones) move on over time to their own sites, to try self-publishing, other venues, etc, simply because part of growing as a writer means change and trying new things.
That said, I know it's difficult to stay motivated and excited while earnings are down. All I can say is that HP Staff are working hard and doing our very best to recover traffic and earnings. We've had to make some tough decisions, and we know some of the changes are unpopular, but we always have the best interest of the site as a whole in mind. We do deeply appreciate the writers who have stuck with us and continued producing top notch content regularly, but we also understand that many will want to take breaks or move on to new things, and we wish them very well.
I know many Hubbers have been talking about HubPages like it's a doomed site lately too, which is hardly inspiring. The HP Team doesn't feel that way at all. We have absolutely no plans to shut down or abandon the site any time soon. We are still working so hard and making so many changes and updates because we truly believe things will get better.
I do believe the team is trying its best, and I do hope HP stays online for many years to come. Since, as writers, we do not have access to all of the ins and outs like you do, it is difficult to make judgments. All we see are the results, which right now, for some of us, are not that good.
It is very hard to put a lot of work into something and then watch it fade away and not really understand why. I keep hoping that what you are doing will turn things around and am sorry that I am going through yet another down turn.
That is very re-assuring to read, thanks.
Funny, I haven't written on HubPages for several years (probably because I was in graduate school), but I have a renewed interest in doing so, probably because it is the best content site out there. I intend to start publishing and focusing on delivering well-written, well-organized content, that is useful, if not critical. I think if we all raise the bar a bit, things will improve.
Worst case scenario, the founders would continue to maintain a stripped-down version of the existing site from one of their garages. Even then, HubPages would still be the best content site out there; all the rest have either already been destroyed or are mom and pop operations.
Speak for yourself TT, and stop moaning about HP. Why bring down other people's enthusiasm. Many of us are still very happy on HubPages. I, for one, have already reached payout this month, and it's only the 12th.
Besides, even if your depressing scenario ever became reality, why not save your work ready for publication on your own site.
Making money as the prime motivator in any venture is not a valid driving force for achieving success at anything.
This is not about making money. It never was. It is about putting years of intense effort into a project that was doing well only to watch it start to crumble through no fault of my own.
My articles have always been meant to help people, and with more than 350,000 views, I think I have...however, since all of the latest changes, views have dropped significantly, which means that fewer people are finding my work.
I'm sure that some people are still doing well here, but I'm also sure that it is because of their topics. I do believe that my writing skills are as good as anybody else's, my content is original and meaningful, etc., etc.
I have had many articles on page 1 of Google over the years and have also been given several awards here.
I am just finding it difficult to feel upbeat when it feels like the rug has been pulled out from beneath my feet despite every effort on my part to try to hold things together.
Furthermore, proof that I am not alone in my thinking is that thousands of good writers have left this site in recent years.
Taking the smug attitude that because you are doing well , the site also is thriving, is a mistake. Many here who have done well in the past are like me...they are not doing well right now. It's upsetting, and I don't think that being honest about it is "moaning". I am simply stating my true feelings, which I have every right to do.
If you don't like my attitude, don't read my posts.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time, and you have been writing posts bemoaning the state of HP for as long, so why have you continued to heavily invest your time and emotions in this site? I understand people need to vent and complain once in a while, but the extent to which you do it is odd. HP seems to cause you a lot of emotional distress.
I was not aware that I was complaining so much. In fact, there have been many, many posts from me that have supported this site. Perhaps you missed the positive ones.
Yes, I do stress about HP, but I also get a great deal of satisfaction from writing and from knowing many of the other people here.
That's how life is, isn't it? Neither all good nor all bad.
Perhaps my "venting" is a way of expressing my wish for things to improve because there is nothing else I have the power to do.
If you feel the writing is on the wall, why is it that YOU continue to write and comment here? Do you expect improvement? If not, why are you here?
I'm here because I am satisfied with my earnings. If I wasn't, I'd be gone. People who are not getting the earnings they think they deserve, or who think they could make more elsewhere, should not aggravate themselves by continuing with HP. Life is too short, don't you think?
Hi. I'm new here and would like to say something without it being perceived as being assuming.
I've worked a lot of jobs where my pay was my responsibility, some more stressful than others. In all of those positions, there were lucrative and not-so-lucrative times. That being said, more than one iron should always be in the fire, especially for a freelance writer.
Although I don't know you, I can empathize. And I understand venting, but I must ask if it is the best thing for new writers to see the first time they log in to explore. I mean, it does create and set a tone for the newbie. I almost left, but kept reading because I'm nosey.
At any rate, I hope your experience gets better as I do for all who write here.
I understand that, but you must admit that by reading through all of the posts you got a more well rounded view of how people feel here. Nothing was meant to turn anybody off, but it never hurts to know the lay of the land when starting a new venture.
I think most newbies would be impressed to see how the thread was being handled. Seeing similar threads handled with respect and courtesy by staff and other users encouraged me to stay after the involuntary move from Squidoo.
It was Squidoo's policy to censor even mild dissatisfaction in their forum at the end. It was a losing policy and one that broadcasted disrespect of all the peope who created the content they sold ads on.
When I first came here, my traffic built pretty steadily, then I went through a period where my views dropped to almost nothing. I guess I was out of favor with Google, for whatever reason. I just went away for a while. I didn't take my stuff down, or change it, or even log in for over six months. When I came back, everything was much better. There are a lot of things that could affect your traffic, most of which, you have no control over. Don't give up, just take a break if you need to.
What you wrote here is interesting. I do find myself writing less here...just can't find the desire to do more right now.
I'm glad your plan worked for you. Maybe I should try doing the same!
On top of any other problems, the winter must be a slow time for articles about RVs. Things may be looking much better for you when spring gets here. Good luck, with you hubs. I am sure many people are grateful to you for sharing the value of you experience.
My top hub is tanking right now, even though all of my other hubs are holding steady or rising. No matter what happens, I will leave it there as long as HP exists. I have gotten so many wonderful comments from people who say it has helped them.
Don't get discouraged. HP will get better with time. There are plenty of us enjoying publishing here.
I've been on for four years now too and I understAnd where you are coming from. It is very different today from what it was when I started. I don't think HP is going to fail, but it doesn't seem to have the pull to me either today. I noticed a big change when Simone Collins and some others left. That's when I saw the biggest change. I do not write as much as I used to either.
For me the two major recent set backs were the sinking of the subs which cost 20% of traffic, and Hubpro basic which has cost me probably 30% of the traffic for my best performing hubs. The 'one size fits all approach' for Hubpro basic has been a disaster for me as my key performing related links were deleted, and I was told that if I added them back the hub would be unfeatured. These hubs get most of their traffic via Pinterest networks that have built up over months and years. The traffic does not depend on search, and a slight potential loss of ranking, for adding a few of my own links, is more than offset by the benefits of the flow-on this brought to my related articles (double red arrows for related hubs during mini-virals).
HP adds 12 so-called 'related links' + another 19 via the Recommended Hubs ( Google ads), many of which are poorly related to the original article. Yet I am not allowed to add a handful of links to my own highly related articles. This does not make sense. Hubpro basic is a penalty for me with no benefits, and I am blocked from editing my own hubs to make them better for me (risk of unfeaturing or unpublishing). HP loses income from these hubs as well! I won't bore you with the details of other issues.
I am considering my future here after 5 years and publishing 1300 hubs.
Your situation is one of the reasons I have made it a point to keep my hub count somewhere around 100. 1300 articles represents a huge amount of effort, and to have it be damaged in the ways you have described is horrible.
I have read some of your hubs, and you certainly deserve better.
I just don't know what the answer is, but it is obvious the team has not found it yet.
Can you explain Hubpro Basic as opposed to...whatever it was before?
Authors previously were to be able to opt-out of being edited. That is no longer possible.
Errrr!??? I've been away a few months. Now we're being force edited? Seriously?
*Starts looking for her suitcases.*
Yep. If you opt out of HubPro Premium, they'll edit your hub with HubPro Basic, removing images they don't like instead of replacing them with new ones and removing any sources, credits, or products they don't care for. Anything you repair or replace after the HubPro Basic editing could result in your hub being un-featured. So the choice to opt out now only means a choice to opt out of intern editing and opt into very basic slash and burn editing.
I'd suggest opting into the Premium service because you are allowed to make changes and repairs after editing occurs.
You are allowed to re-edit your hub after either version of HubPro. HP management says they might de-feature it if you revert the edits, not that it's a guarantee. And that advice applies to both editing services. They are talking about adding back in "spammy elements."
I don't know what slash-and-burn stuff you are talking about, mine have been edited with HubPro Basic because I opted out of Premium and the changes have all been very minor. Only in one instance did an editor's change result in a mistake and I was easily able to change it back by looking at the before-and-after document they emailed me. They did not take out any of my crappy home-made math diagrams or remove any of my links, and I do have product links in some of my hubs. My edited hubs look barely touched.
I must be seriously misunderstanding the bit about it in the FAQ. To me, it reads as if they remove any photos or images they think are substandard and remove any links or products they think are excess or unrelated in HubPro Basic and that putting any back if you disagree with their choices may result in the hub being un-featured.
http://blog.hubpages.com/2015/08/19/int … y-updates/
You might be reading correctly but that does not mean the program is following what you are reading. There is also a section in there that states that the HP basic program will not change your title except for spelling, grammar, or capitals.
This is not true. I just had a few hubs go through this program, and they changed one of the titles--and not for one of the reasons above.
Yes, that part you're reading correctly, every time Robin has come to the forum to clarify HubPro Basic she has said they will remove what they think are "spammy elements" and that adding them back in might cause your hub to get de-featured. She's never said it was a certainty though. And they will take out badly pixelated and watermarked photos.
For people who don't use many products or bad images (in the sense of being pixelated or watermarked) it's nothing more than light, reversible proofreading. So you don't need to scare poor lionrhod about it.
EditBot is the one that sucks. I had to undo a lot more "edits" when they applied that one.
There is nothing wrong with Hubpages that is not fixable, though it might need a lot more floundering around until they get a site that is fully adapted to present online conditions.
The core thing is that they have a lot of good content. The problem issue, for me, is that they also have a lot of bad content.
It needs a big knife...
TT2, I'm guessing (assuming this is your only account) the timing of when you first signed up here may have colored your view. You probably know that the first big Panda hit in February of 2011. I don't know how many months-plus-or-minus you were on here when you signed up, but it's standard for people to take some months before they even start seeing much in terms of traffic/earnings. So you (and anyone who signed up around then) were either pretty new when the big Panda upheaval happened, or else you signed up after it happened).
(I've written this long post more by way of trying to contribute some discussion to the forums and not so much to specifically address you, TT2 - because I suspect many people signed up when all the talk was about improving quality on here, which, I'd think, would encourage a particular kind of enthusiasm in those who signed up at the time.)
These days I don't even bother trying to figure out how well the site is/isn't doing, and paying a whole lot of attention to things like Quantcast data (etc. etc.) has never been my thing anyway. There was a time when I paid more attention and don't now, but that's for personal reasons (among them, the fact that I decided to de-emphasize my pen-name - which has nothing to do with how well the site is or isn't doing.
I confess to not going to look to see what kind of Hubs you write, but (without a whole lot of history of pre-Panda/post-Panda, updates, Penguin, and some (maybe) mis-steps with regard to addressing/accommodating the ongoing attempt to zero in on providing something worthwhile to the person searching for it), I tend to guess that your four-year time on here may largely contribute to your outlook. And if that's not the case with you, I imagine there's the chance it could be he case with others who signed up shortly before or after that first big Panda started to set all kinds of things/changes into motion. I end to think newer people or at least people who just go with the latest standards on here (while also aiming to write stuff that a searcher may be happy to find) may be less likely to be disenchanted. (Nobody could tell by looking at my hacked up profile these days, but I had a few hundred Hubs go through this account, and they were big enough mix of stuff that I got a pretty good idea of the kind of stuff that is likely to get at least a little traffic.)
As I said, I have no idea what the state of things is with this site etc., but the reason I signed up (and stayed) with this site was that it was straightforward: If you write enough Hubs some of them get more traffic than others, but even low-traffic Hubs can add up (you just need more of them). And, you get paid on time if/when you reach the minimum for getting paid. I know a lot of people did really well on Squidoo, but I never bothered doing anything on there (except for, I think, one thing) because they had that whole "weird" payment thing. To me, it's always just been up to the Hubber to figure out what Hubs may get traffic and which don't. Again, it's straightforward and you get paid (on here) for what your Hub essentially earns. Even though my online writing has always been a free-time, more casual, thing; I just saw Squidoo as something that n (at least sort-of ) serious writer had to be bothered with.
Personally, I think there are a few tweaks in standards that could be made on HP (and some of them may be being made or in the works anyway), but I generally think HP is on the right track IF they keep and attract enough solid writers who can come up with either a few things get a lot of traffic or a big bunch of things that get more modest, but reasonably consistent traffic. The good thing on here is that we can always delete stuff that doesn't do well.
My "thing" is that I haven't ruled out writing on this site (if I want to write something that I care about as far as getting any readers goes, because I pretty much don't want readers on any number of my blogs anyway). I'm not going to post any old thing on here now, though. I need to know whatever it is a) stands a chance of being found through search, and b) is something that doesn't deserve its own blog and/or require a whole lot of time/research on my part. I don't know.... The world is full of decent writers who would be more encouraged than discouraged by the most recent set of changes that have been happening on here. Maybe HP needs a whole new flock of writers. Maybe it needs more of the old ones to come back (often under new names) with a new approach. For now, the site is still up. I think that's because they DIDN'T do what so many other "write-whatever-you want" sites did and/or what so many "write-nothing-but-a-certain-type-of-Internet-article" sites did.
My real point (to ANYONE who started writing around/shortly after the first big Panda) is that I think it was a time when "everyone" had all kinds of hope that improving quality (according to Panda and according to what HP was emphasizing after subdomains (June/July 2012) and as Panda's and Penguins (etc.) were rolled out every so often) meant (in a nushell) "that was all there was to it". It's taken some time for so many people to start to notice that that wasn't all there was to it, in terms of quality and writing for the user (and be unique and offer something that "everyone else" isn't offering) BUT with the search engines in mind as well.
The whole online-writing thing has been an evolution. I first got involved around ten years ago when "everyone" said "nobody cares about English grammar" and "nobody reads any more", "end of story". People have a way of thinking that whatever they're seeing at the moment is "end of story"; so they stop reading the "book" and make choices/judgments based on not ever actually seeing where the "story" eventually goes. Things get messy when people do that (online or off); and I think online writers are looking at the mess that has gone on as a result. Self-fulfilling prophecies often happen when people do that too. I don't know what will happen with HP. For all I know, I could sign on tomorrow and discover they're "done a Bubblews" (or at least "a Helium"). My main point with all this is that I do think that anyone who signed up in the time-frame I mentioned is very likely to be at higher risk for feeling discouraged, mainly because they don't have the benefit of "the beginning of the story" and are forming judgments/choices based on not yet reaching the "end of the book". The particular "book-in-question" is HP's book, not mine. We all have our own "book" to worry about, but as a "reader" of the HP "book" I just hope that people who happened to start writing at the beginning of a major upheaval on here don't allow "plot twists" to create an unnecessary self-fulfilling prophecy (for individual writers and/or for HP).. (I have to say that I agree that things in the forums do look pretty "slim" these days. Then again, people who are happy enough with their traffic often don't come to the forums to re-hash the matter of traffic. Who knows..... ). I just know I haven't ruled out writing on here. I just plan to be more selective about what I do post and about my approach to it. "Selective" wasn't a thing when I first signed up on here. These days it is. Either way, and even so, I still have no plans of writing "a certain type of Internet-article", which means it's a little trickier to think up a subject and present it in a way that fits well with what I think is wanted on the site these days.
I'll stay positive and hope things turn around for the better. Personally I'm starting to hit my stride on Hubpages, which gives me hope when I venture to do my own sites. I make sure all of my work is saved in case Hubpages goes down, but I don't see it happening just yet. If the downward trend continues for another year, then yes the inevitable could arrive.
I just hope others can maximize their time on here, save all their work, and be ready to move toward new pastures if we have to say goodbye.
Boy, you sure like to write! This was some comment!
I wrote my first hub in January of 2012 and, oddly enough, it turned out to be my best performing article! I have had over 78,000 views with it! This, even in the face of being smacked down several times by Google for reasons unknown to me, dropping many, many articles and revamping my entire site.
Now, that same article is getting about 25 views per month...and this is after additions, tweaks, updates and improvements, ad nauseum.
See why I'm upset?
TT has a right to express her opinion. The end of year is a good time to take stock.
Here is a graphic. It is or was my best performing page.
A combination of plagiarism, Google changes and the web moving on have taken those few cents away. I don't care about that any more.
HubPages was a fantastic learning experience for me. It is a still a great place to write pieces if you want to write them. Some people still make some money. Long may that continue.
I want to make money. An addiction to ego writing meant I carried on for longer than I should. 'My' stuff does not make money. I don't want to or can't do the other stuff - and for the most part that does not make money either.
Web changes such as mobile/apps, competition for eyes on page, growing pool of writers, advertising chasing the crowd - mean it is a very few who make significant income.
I am changing too. With huge thanks to HubPages and feedback from Hubbers - I discovered a love and small ability for drawing. Those drawings are my next attempt to make some proper money.
On to 2016!
Plagiarism is why I no longer publish hubs. Everything is scooped up by these sites and their bots (?) which seem to be on standby to copy and paste. I still make pay-out with two accounts paying alternate months, which makes it worthwhile to come and see how they are doing and make quick fixes as necessary. I would like to write some more hubs, but it's more worthwhile to write for my own blog these days.
Yes, this is a big problem on the internet, and I fault Google for not doing a better job of putting a stop to it.
Because of the niche I write in, very little of my work is copied. Fortunately, when it has been, I have been able to get it removed.
What you said here touches on a different aspect of why I feel the way I do right now. Who wants to spend time producing content and jumping through hoops only to have someone ( or some action) steal the benefits of doing so away.
Many have stopped writing here specifically for the same reasons as you have.
The bottom line is that the entire system, not just HP, is flawed. Feeling helpless to repair it is very painful.
Thank you so much for your support. When I posted, I never dreamed that there would be people cruel enough here to use my words as a reason to attack me. To me, that speaks to the quality of their character...you do not kick someone when he is down.
Certainly, everybody has a right to his opinions, but there are both kind and mean-spirited ways to express them.
Yours certainly was well into the kind category.
I have always felt you are an extremely talented cartoonist and that HP is the wrong place for you to display your work. The right place would be a syndicated newspaper group. Once they discover you, the money will pour in. Another great place would be writing a hard copy (not internet) children's book. Kids would love your stick figures (because that's what they like to draw) and would identify with your characters.
If I had the kind of talent you have, (and was a lot younger and healthier) than I now am, I certainly would pursue those avenues.
Again, thank you for standing up for what is right, speaking the truth and always, always entertaining me with your humor.
In today's world, YOU are exactly what people need...including me!
TimeTraveller, Youtube is also a good source of income if your niche has a high CPM. It all depends upon the quality of the video and the niche you have chosen. I myself am maintaining a Youtube channel. I have a very high CPM on my youtube channel youtube.com/englishliteraturehub when compared with HubPages, but on another channel it is very very low. Moreover, if you want to teach something, then you don't need any equipment. You will need just a laptop. In most cases, you don't need a camera. You are just required to know Power Point. Believe me! I have produced all my videos using Power Point. Just check out my youtube channel: youtube.com/englishliteraturehub
Really? How in the world can you produce a video without a camera!!! I'll have to take a look and see what you are talking about. Interesting!
Your laptop or computer may have a cam on it, if not, you can purchase USB cams that are pretty cheap. I have made videos using my pc cam. Most of the time I have used my phone camera.
it's reality. You can also make talking characters like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRBC4mII-94
I agree with you Millionaire. HubPages management should not allow such like posts. It's discouraging. If someone is not getting traffic, it does not mean HubPages is not doing well. It all depends upon the quality of content and selection of keywords. I'm still happy here as my hubs are doing well. Such like posts will discourage the new hubbers.
That is a horrible idea. Censoring forums is a sure sign of a site's decline.
It's a sign of site integrity to allow dissatisfied users to post. Personally, I don't trust websites that censor their users and allow only yes-men to post.
Anyone who fails so thoroughly in researching HubPages that he flees after reading one mildly wistful post among thousands of posts that aren't seems unlikely to enjoy HP, anyway.
I honestly think that people need to give the recent changes a chance to work through. There are other options for the site if those changes do not have the desired result.
It is never a good idea to give in to despair when things are not going well. It just just makes everything worse.
I agree. January is what will tell the tale.
Paul E mentioned 6 months, which is a long long time, given Penguin in January etc. I would like to see HP focus on things that make guaramteed positive outcomes in the short term (like updating HP related links to ensure they are relevant - see http://hubpages.com/community/forum/134 … s-to-pages). For sub sinking, no real positive benefits were promised, apart from admin ones associated with GSC (webmaster tools). It appears that the best we can hope for is traffic to recover to pre_Nov 2015 levels after 6 month of losses. But time will tell. Lets hope traffic surges to new high levels. Staff input to the forums is very low now, so I don't think anyone is listening anymore. What would I know anyway? Lots of hot air here, 28 degrees C and rising, time for a surf. Moving on.
Before I go =>my radical prediction is that within 6 months Hubpro hubs will be split into a separate site. The 2000+ edited pages already covers 40% + of the traffic. HP heavily promotes these pages. Sinking the subs and the reorganising was need to make this move work. The cream will rise to the top => butter and yogurt. The rest will be dumped into a founder site that contains pages that will only be moved into the Hubpro site when they get enough traffic to qualify for Hubpro. They to be edited and then moved to the premier site. Ah, too sunny and glarey for the crystal ball to work anymore. Bye.
You edited that post in a slightly sneaky way, so I am obliged to post again.
I reckon the last resort for HP might be an oddee.com type site, simple to maintain, two or three thousand pages delivering several million views a month and, no doubt, a decent income.
There are plenty of options before that, though.
Paul Edmondson has said that he wants to keep to the original spirit of the site (anyone can publish and join the online adventure) which is to his credit.
"It is never a good idea to give in to despair when things are not going well."
I agree with that in relation to the site, and I also needed to hear that right now. For many reasons.
That is another thing that happens. People have their own, very personal and very real reasons, for anxiety and despair.
In a forum like this, bad feelings can sweep through a debate when the position is far from hopeless as far as mere work issues are concerned.
Yes, that is a good quote, and it reminds me that people fight battles on many fronts, not just those having to do with HP, online writing in general and/or earning a living.
If you have lived as long as I have, you learn that life can be very, very hard. It keeps trying to beat you up, and often succeeds.
In my case, and on this one issue, I am having a bad time, but when I look at the larger picture, I guess it's nothing compared to what I have been through in my life. I have survived Cancer. I walk on false hips. I once had a disease that almost killed me and that 12 specialists could not figure out, even to this day, but that I somehow survived. I have been through marriage, divorce and the death of many loved ones.
Those are just some of the many shots life has thrown my way...yet, I am still standing.
Sometimes it takes venting on a forum like this and hearing from others to remind me to reset my priorities.
If you are suffering right now, I am so sorry. Do not despair. If I, a little old lady can survive, surely you, a younger man with everything to live for can.
Keep the faith.
My views are now a fraction of what they were a year or so ago, every few months they seem to take another hit.. Whether that is because of a change instigated by HP or a change made by Google it is hard to say - for all we know things could be way worse without the changes that HP has been making to satisfy the big G..
I think HP has our best interests at heart, after all if we do not earn nor do they! They also have the data to do the testing before they make changes. They also have the contacts with G and many other sites to get feedback about what they should be doing. So I think all we can really do is trust them to ensure that the site continues...
The problem really is G and not just G - competition in general. If you had a specialist site you would expect to see your pages ranking higher and performing better than they would if you stuck them on a multiuser site like HP. As far as G is concerned a specialist site is more likely to offer trustworthy content than a site like HP where any one can claim that they are a doctor, astrophysicist, car mechanic, master chef, veterinarian or pilot - and then write on all of those subjects from a single account! Writing here you are at a disadvantage if you really want to write in a specific niche and make a name for yourself.
I have several sites, they are all specialist sites, and they all get more views than I get through my HP accounts. Even if I have similar content here. My specialist sites rank much higher in the search results than the pages on HP. My specialist sites actually give me a living wage just in adsense now so I am certainly not complaining - better than minimum wage for a full time working week.
Anyway - back to the point; yes HP is down, but then the Google Algorithm is using a hammer to crack nuts when it comes to sorting out what pages are best and penalizing great pages just because they are on a site that does contain crap. But then they are also promoting content that is on smaller specialist sites that once upon a time would have never been found.
The Algorithm is changing all of the time, even now - some users are doing better and others are doing worse, and the site as a whole is seeing a downturn. But what will happen after the next few changes that G makes? If your content is good, and the readers do really read it from end to end and engage with it then maybe you will see an up turn in traffic. If your page is just more mass produced spun wordage that is just designed to harvest keyword traffic without offering anything different to the other million pages that are targeting the same keywords then maybe you will not; and deservedly so.
I know that many of my pages here offer nothing new on what can be found on other pages on the web, but I also have pages that contain unique information that you will not found anywhere else - except those sites that have copied those pages and the ideas!! We all need to ask ourselves if what we have written really adds something that no one else has.
If we have just rehashed the same ideas that are out there on a million other pages then are we really deserving of more views than any one of those other pages??
Anyway - hold on - you never know if things will get better on the next change - they just might..
I agree 1000% with everything you say, LeanMan - and I hope other people realise your opinion is worth listening to, because you're doing what most of them aspire to do - making a living from online writing. So your views are based on experience that's relevant to everyone.
This is the best analysis of what is going on overall that I have read in some time, so thank you! I have never aspired to make a living from my writing simply because I am old,in poor health, retired and do not need the money.
If you read some of my earlier stuff, which now no longer is here, you would see why I write. I have a dearth of experience, am in my early 70s and wanted to leave something behind after I am gone that would really help people.
This may sound stupid, given my niche (which is RV Living and Travel), but the truth is that people who want to become involved in that type of thing can very easily be harmed, duped and/or damaged financially.
People think it is all fun, and I do write things that help them, too, but my goals are more serious.
So, when views drop significantly, I know that people are missing out in getting important information that few others really address in their articles.
For example, many people dream of buying a big, fancy motor home that they can live in full time. They think that if they sell their homes to get the money to buy one, they'll be all set. They don't realize that, although coaches are made to look like permanent living quarters, they are not built well enough to serve those purposes and will need constant and very expensive maintenance.
They also don't realize that by making that move, they are only one accident away from being homeless!
The big coaches are for people who have plenty of expendable money, not for working people who have to sell their homes to buy them.
THIS is my point here, and it is just one issue.
I show people how to RV without putting themselves in danger, and I show them where to go to do it and how to save money doing it.
If my articles cannot be well ranked, this information is lost on thousands of people.
So, if I get upset during downturns, you now know why. And you also know why I don't keep other sites.
My health is failing, and I want to do something meaningful with the end of my life.
HP is my pathway. Some here seem to think that this post was me tearing the site down. They missed the whole issue.
Now you and they (if they bother to read this) understand better.
If I'd known your priority is to leave something for posterity, rather than to earn an income, then I would've counselled you to stick with your blog.
Let's hope HubPages will last for a long time yet - but the internet is a fast-changing landscape, and it is highly unlikely HubPages will be around in a few years' time, at least not in its current format. Besides, HubPages' setup is now such that if you're not around to keep tweaking your work, it will become unFeatured because of rule changes etc, and become invisible.
The only place I'd bet on to be there for the long haul would be Wordpress.com. The free version won't let you place advertisements so you can't earn money from it - but if something happens to you, the blog will stay there for as long as Wordpress.com exists, which I think would be for the long haul because it's nowhere near as vulnerable as HubPages.
There is a paid version of Wordpress.com (for about $99 a year) which does let you place advertising, but as you know, actually earning money from that advertising can be a challenge in itself. The good thing is that if you decide not to continue with the paid service, your blog simply reverts to the free version rather than getting deleted.
Thanks, Marissa...but that ship has sailed. I have neither the health nor the energy any more to change.
When I started this, I had no idea about the temporary nature of websites or anything else, for that matter, about how online writing works.
In the end, at least I will know that hundreds of thousands of people did "get the memo" and hopefully will pass some of it on to others.
I had thought, at one point, of putting all of these articles in book form on Amazon, but, as you know, my skills with converting text to Word are limited, and even then, I'm not sure how many people I would reach.
All I can hope for is that this site somehow stays afloat and my work with it.
Well, you could look at a Wordpress.com blog as the equivalent of putting the Hubs in an ebook - just because it's called a blog does NOT mean you have to manage it actively, or keep adding new material. You would just transfer all your Hubs and let them ride.
Alternatively, if the only thing stopping you creating a book is the formatting, then contact Sandyspider to see if she is still providing a formatting service.
I would suggest putting the book on Booktango instead of just Amazon. They will list your book on a whole range of different booksellers, including Amazon. You may prefer to pay for Booktango to do the formatting etc for you
There's no need to delete any of your Hubs if you create the book, either. Ebooks do not count as duplicate content.
I distinctly remember Amazon saying that they do not want books that duplicate content that is already on the web. So, is that just true for them, not true or what?
No it's nonsense. In practice, they have no way of checking anyway.
What they are really saying is that they don't want people stealing material off other people's sites and publishing that as a book. If it's your content and you own the copyright, they have no problem with that.
I also thought that when you transfer articles it is like starting all over again because they become new content on the web. It has taken years for me to get ranked, and the thought of starting all over again makes my hair stand on end!
As for the book, I have zero marketing skills, so nobody would read it, either!
I have some of the same feelings. When I first joined, I posted often. When I did post, I received comments and feedback. Then, like you alluded to in your post, things changed. Recently, I have posted very little. It is sad to see things change. I am not leaving, but I am giving it a rest with hope to return one day.
I have been here for 4 years as well and the past 2 years I have not done much writing. My three kids are getting older and need more attention, I have a job that takes up 90% of my day, my husband is home from deployments longer now so I spend as much time with him as possible. BUT....with that being said, I got on this morning and smiled because I think it is time for me to get back on my horse (which I have been leading by a rope for far too long). I'm going to start writing again, come January and things slow back down. Join me on my adventures and I'll follow you on yours! I'd love to see you there!
I understand your despair; so please do not stop writing and keep that promise to yourself til your horse has died, this is what I am going to do. I too have been with hubpages for four years now. I have not written many hubs in that time due to poor health myself, but I have written good quality hubs. My Niche is just on about anything on life to help and try to get people aware of particular situations and hopefully with solutions I offer.
I came to Hubpages because I am passionate about writing and wanting to help people and for self-publishing on the internet. During this time HP has kept me on my toes because of the changes they have made and I believe it has made me a better writer. From here because of Amazon and Ebay affiliate programmes I set out to study about affiliate marketing. I did not have clue about ranking til I read some hubbers hubs, naturally I studied about ranking too. Now, because of the help with HP and the friends I made here and the articles I have read on HP; Google has recognised me now, even though my rankings are not on the 1st page, but I have never given up on my passion to write and help people.
Also another thing that I have learned is sharing your articles through social media and other forums, I do this with mine, I hope this helps to get your word out. In your comments back to other hubbers posting their comments to you, you have not mentioned this.
I hope you are having a lovely morning. Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this thread.
I am still on HP because HP is still here and I enjoy the community support. I do miss the challenges and contests. I have written a bunch of my hubs in response to those. Still, writing hubs is a great way to keep writing. I earn, on average, pennies, but pennies is better than nothing. I really need to write and submit to other places that pay more because that has a better chance to pay the bills, but I still enjoy the HP community.
I still have some hubs that are unfinished. My score has been higher than it is (reach 100 once in the old days and stayed in the 80s and 90s for longer periods back then) and it seems that even when I write a new hub, my score doesn't' rise all that much in response, and that is why I must have HP lower on my totem pole than other endeavors.
I back up all of my work because I spend many hours writing, filling and arranging capsules, and changing my hubs in response to Panda swipes. In a way, I feel as if HP is keeping my time spent reworking older hubs to adhere to new rules so that they can keep earning, but I am rewarded with an increase in potential payment. I have earned 2 payouts in my last 6 years on HP, but I also know that I have a day job, home-school my daughter, live in an intentional community that needs some of my time, and I have just written most of a novel through NaNoWriMo. Hub Pages is a good resource for a writer to have in writing shorter works, but if you want to spend some time out in the sun, there needs to be diversification, and not dependence on one source of income. Not expecting HP to satisfy all of one's needs may be a saner attitude and approach.
Yes, I know I need to write some more new hubs to earn more and score better as a hubber. That is a goal of mine, as soon as I rework some of my existing hubs to adhere to existing rules... ~:0)
At one time I had a page rank. Now there isn't a page rank with my new address on Hubpages. I don't know if that hurts us with Google. My Hubber score has dropped from a 93 last week to 88. I don't know why, I'm not on here like I use to be maybe that's it. I'm just not sure why it dropped, but I'm not going to do anything different because I don't believe it helps. I have always tried to keep up with my hubs and redo them when needed. Money wise my amount has also dropped, but that could also be because of the holidays and not as many visitors.
I'm not surprised that the site is crumbling. They have made some detrimental changes to Hubpages recently which has completely removed all the functionality that the site had and has completely destroyed all internal traffic. Nobody no longer knows when a writer they are following has published new material, or a forum post or has made a comment because the feed that showed all that activity has been removed meaning there is now nothing. If you want to see which of the writers you are following have been active then you have to manually go through them all checking out their profiles. That, in my opinion, is utter stupidity and is a ridiculous change to make which nearly killed the site instantaneously. If this was my site, I would sack whoever came up with that stupendously idiotic idea on the spot!
Sparkster, HubPages hasn't removed the feed, it's just not the first thing you see when you log in any more. You'll find it under the "Explore" tab in the top nav bar.
If you're not getting notified when Hubbers write a new Hub, check your notifications:
Having said that, 99% of HubPages' income comes from external traffic. Internal traffic is nice for motivation, that's all.
I agree with whoever said there's always some panic when google reworks their algorithms and traffic drops a bit. But don't worry, it usually ALWAYS comes back up after a bit of time. I've been on HP for 4 years, and have spent countless hours writing for the site. I enjoy it and make a little side $$ each month, so that is why I stay. I will tell you that I don't write as often for the site now because I have focused most of my creative energies on writing novels. Published one recently and am working on another right now. Don't put all your eggs in one basket...which is something I'm working on. And don't panic when someone says HP is "going down". Just back up your work (which I need to do) and hope for the best.
Keep in mind we're still in the infancy of the computer age; there's bound to be a lot of growing pains and trial and error going on. Also keep in mind that if HubPages' owners stop caring about the site or lose too much money on it, your words are portable.
That's not to imply that HubPages is in decline, but that almost all businesses of all types eventually shut down or fail. I learned this bit of information on a visceral level working as a florist. The first five flower shops I worked at are gone. The sixth still sort of exists as it's just a department inside a larger department store now and only employs one person part time. The seventh is still hanging on by tooth and nail by having far fewer designers and by paying minimum wage, much less than I made working there in the nineties. The eighth was literally bulldozed less than a year after I started there. The ninth lasted over a hundred years but it went out of business a few years ago. It was bulldozed along with its seven acres of greenhouse within months of shutting down. The tenth sold while I was working there and went out of business a few years later. I'm sure you get the idea. Businesses fail and go bankrupt; owners get old, die, or lose interest. Life happens.
I see the chances of many existing online business right now continuing to exist for the rest of my life as extremely slim. So I backup my work. I am happy every day my work continues to get views. I am thankful for the current existence of online businesses that serve me now. I hold no special belief that they'll exist tomorrow, next week, or next year. I'd like HubPages to last and grow but there are no guarantees with anything. Enjoy it while you can and don't worry too much about it existing forever or not.
Generally speaking, you are correct, but there are many, many businesses that have been around for generations: Pepsi, Coca Cola, Ford, etc., etc. Not all businesses will fail IF they make a good plan and stick to it. It is when they run around making sudden changes and undoing the basics that they get into trouble. Remember when Coca Cola changed its basic formula and almost went broke?
HP is cleverly set up and extremely user friendly. However, they have muddied the waters by not eliminating the lower quality writing completely and placing far too many ads, etc. on the sidebars.
Work that is easy to read is not "cluttered". and people want "easy". They do not want to wade through information they did not come to an article to read.
The goal should be to serve the consumer, not try to wring every penny out of each article. A few well placed ads by the team as well as writers should be plenty. I don't think they need to see "related articles", etc and really do not want to.
Simple, clean, easy and well done will survive. Anything less will not.
Not necessarily, TT2. The point Kylyssa is making is that progress happens, and we can't stop it. Kodak had a great business model and it still failed, because people stopped buying cameras. Sure, if they had got on the digital bandwagon earlier they would've survived - but they would've had to completely transform their business to make a completely new product. In other words, Kodak as we knew it still would not have survived, it would've survived in name only.
If you have a business that is no longer suitable for the current needs of society, it's going to fail no matter how well you're running it. If that happens to your business, your only hope is to change your business model, and change it drastically - sometimes to the point where it's not really the same business.
HubPages may well survive as a business but there is no guarantee it will be a business that we recognise.
I share the same sentiments as you. The fact that I only come over here after 3 days of your posting tells the sad story. I am with Hp for nearly 6 years come January. Whatever being said, I still think Hp is still one of the best sites and the most user-friendly site. Like many, I also have stopped writing for 2 months now. I don't see the logic of writing to a blank audience. A very discouraging factor is that my "hubpro" hub is not doing its work as it is meant to be.
Let's hope we can see the light at the end of the tunnel in time to come.
With the greatest respect; if you want to kill a website like Hub Pages, start a thread like this!
Things will never get better, and new users will be put off contributing, if existing users are airing their grievances in such a public forum. Lots of sites have suffered with the recent Google updates, but those that continue producing quality content will survive and thrive.
It's in everyone's interest to stay positive?
I understand the concept of feeling down and forgotten, but you make a good point, Artois52. HubPages has been and continues to be a wonderful place to write and socialize. Let's all shout its praises and draw more people in!
If people are so shallow as to view one person't down moments as a reason to give up their own hopes and dreams, shame on them.
I understand the importance of staying positive, but being phony about it is nothing more than a sham. If I am positive, I express that. If I am not, I express that also. Just telling someone you think they should be positive in the face of very real negative situations is ridiculous.
If you honestly have positive feelings, good for you, but don't try to censor others (and there are a good number of us) who are upset at the moment.
This post was not started to put anything or anybody down, it was simply me stating my personal feelings. It ticks me off when people use that as an excuse for bashing me or blaming me for causing problems here.
If you have ever, ever paid attention to my posts, you would see that I have often been a very strong supporter of this site and still feel it offers many positives. This does not mean I think it is perfect. Nothing is perfect. So please, do me a favor and think before you criticize. Doing that is also damaging!
I wouldn't take it to heart, TT2.
Good business relationships require two-way communication. I, for one, appreciate that you came here to talk about your concerns rather than just walking away or feeling sad or miserable and just carrying on. Threads like this help people find clarity and offer others opportunities to encourage them.
I may have sounded negative when I said that most businesses don't tend to last forever and that the Internet isn't old enough to have any tried and true formulas yet, but it was not intended as negativity. I meant it more as a suggestion to love it while we have it and certainly as nothing negative about you or HubPages.
You have very generously shared your knowledge with a lot of people. You have surely saved people from making mistakes in RV living that would have knocked their whole lives off-kilter. That is something to be very proud of.
The information you have shared does deserve to be saved for future readers. It can be nerve-wracking to see the state of constant change exhibited by the fledgling Internet in light of knowing how transient websites can be. Perhaps compiling it into an eBook would provide you with a nice backup?
I'm currently looking into how one goes about donating an eBook of one's own to my local library because I'm compiling a bunch of my articles and editorials on homelessness into an eBook and want to get people using the library in my readership. Maybe that would be something for you to consider as well?
Kylyssa, if you publish your ebook through Smashwords, they have a feature whereby you can set a different price for libraries. I set my library price at $0 for precisely that reason, and several libraries took it.
The only downside of Smashwords is that its formatting requirements are extremely painful, so unless you're prepared to pay someone else to do the formatting for you (and there are people who will do it), I suggest checking out Booktango and see whether they have a similar facility.
Kylissa: Thank you so much for this comment. It meant more to me than you may ever know. I have no problem whatsoever with people who disagree with my views, but obviously get my back up when people go after me personally for having them. I don't do that to others and do not expect them to do it to me.
It's too bad that some cannot be as kind and eloquent as you have been here. You have lifted me up instead of knocking me down farther.
Sites that censor all but yes-men are failing sites. If you encounter a site that doesn't even allow a user to express the mildest displeasure at negative changes (like the overall drop in traffic on the site) you should avoid it because they've got things to hide and have decided none of their users deserve any normal degree of respect. It's an indicator a site has decided to see users as marks rather than as partners, contributors, or people.
HubPages isn't censoring people, so seeing threads like this is actually a good sign. Trying to bully people into hiding their concerns is part of a terrible business model.
Another thing that you'll see on HubPages is staff addressing these concerns. You'll see that few other places and nowhere that prevents people from voicing concerns. HubPages even uses things they learn from hubbers complaining about features to improve the site!
A very, very mild complaint about a very real issue (the dramatic drop in traffic) that has been handled well by the original poster, staff, and other posters adds to the site and to site trust rather than subtracting from it.
Hopefully this thread has petered out. The January adventure awaits.
Hi-really loved this-I was an active participant here for 2 years or so. I didn't make a dime but met some truly gifted writers . I honed my craft and was given constructive criticism from those hub-writers I myself enjoyed. Then like yourself the worm turned. I stop back occasionally but haven't written anything for awhile. I don't see many writer's I had followed before. Your article has motivated me to stick my toe back into the water if only temporarily.
If you weren't here to see when this was HubPages marketing manager, and this was admin's idea of how to best promote the site, you may not realize just how bad things are here.
This was the promo that came out in 2009, and like putting blood in the water with sharks, it brought EVERYONE who knew how to make their fingers touch a keyboard come here and make content.
Revenues and users swelled for two years after that, and then Panda arrived and every metric you could use to judge HubPages' performance has shown overall and sustained decline since 2012.
Saw the video. You have really turned.
Would you like to chat further?
I don't think Relache has "turned", I just think she is being honest and realistic. She has been one of the greatest assets of this site and is a person who has had phenomenal success here...BUT...she is highly educated when it comes to online writing, is a pro at SEO, understands marketing, etc. She has watched the decline, yet remains (at least for now) to help educate the rest of us. There is a difference between "turning" and simply noting the truth.
I reckon PDS knows it is not Relache but thinks she has gone from being a supporter of the site to being a critic.
My own view is the HP has given me a good return for my efforts even if those returns disappeared tomorrow.
I certainly want them to have the time to adapt to the online world in its present condition (very different to 2009).
Also, I don't like to see staff faced with endless discouragement in the forums (I hope they don't read too much of this stuff). They are the ones who have to do the work to keep the site on track.
Not that, I don't understand hubbers frustrations...
He did not seem to be making unrealistic expectations...$3.00 a day lol
Even with Ryan around, HP did not promote wildly unreasonable expectations. I'm not sure 3 dollars a day would attract the bigger sharks.
The videos in the sidebar are pretty toxic (nowadays) though.
'Hubpages How To Get Started And Monetize Your Hubs' shows you how to get links to your website and how to add affiliate links (lots, barely related, lol).
Then there is 'How To Make Huge Clickbank Commissions Using HubPages'
People still read/view this kind of outdated stuff and it doesn't help.
Yes, I've seen some pretty bad videos, some advocating some pretty damaging practices; that is, advocating practices that could seriously hurt HP.
Edit: Actually, if people saw some of those videos, they'd know why HP has certain rules in place.
Ditto! I am as sad as you are about what's going on right now. I don't know how much more I can give to writing here. I'm hoping for the best and that HubPages can be great again.
What I hate the most is the hubpages take over of squidoo ............ Still I am gonna stay with HP till the end ...... at least .......... Since last 1.5 year I have been observing a slow decline ....... both in traffic and activity.
Really? Still after us Squids? After all this time?
None of us asked for that change, not us and not you. And yes a lot of crappy pages got moved here and a lot of fantastic pages got moved here too. And there were a lot of really badly done hubs here before we moved in too.
It's been year or more, and I'd really hoped this would end already. I loved my buddies at Squidoo, but I'm a Hubber now and happy to be one.
Lots of mismanagement at Squidoo? Absolutely. And those of us dedicated to being better writers tightened up our act, studied the HP rules, figured out where Squidoo was doing wrong by us, deleted droves of hubs/lenses and started creating new and better hubs.
Don't blame the Squids, blame Google and its crazy requirements. And then take a deep breath and realize that ALL of this stuff is making us work better. And that the internet itself is so clogged with articles that it's no surprise that traffic is getting divided. Face it, too many articles and too many choices.
Agree with you 100%
I'm a happy Hubber also.
Looking forward to 2016.
It is not that Hubbers are upset about the Squids, it is the very poor way the changeover was handled for both sides. It really screwed everything up for all of us. Although I am sure that many squids did do the right thing, I am as equally sure that many did not, and so all of us are caught in the middle, still, with the consequence. Do some hub hopping and see for yourself.
What does hub hopping have to do with former Squids? Please explain how it's our fault that some hubbers still write trash that you can see through the hub hopper.
Did you do any hub hopping before our articles transferred?
Yes regularly, community service like hub hopping used to figure into our hubber score. Now that activity does not appear to be part of that secret formula. (Hub hopping can be very amusing when you stumble across a grossly spun hub!)
I personally don't blame the loss in traffic late September 2014 on Squidoo, but on a Google algo update which timed shortly after the transfer to create a wrecking ball.
I suspect a part of the decline in views site wide over the last year is in part due to Hubbers of all origin removing their unfeatured hubs to other sites or just letting them lie fallow in an unfeatured status.
What I hate the most is that hubbers are still complaining that they think I'm trash because some of my hubs came from articles I had on Squidoo. It's been over a year. Please point out which of my hubs you think are destroying HubPages.
I don't think any of your hubs are destroying hub pages, nor am I blaming all of the garbage in the hub hoppers on squids. However, I have read in several posts former Squids bragging about the fact that they just didn't want to be bothered updating or didn't want to change their articles. Let me clarify that there are some excellent writers that came over here from Squidoo, and you shouldn't take it personally when people comment about those who weren't so wonderful. Certainly we had the same mix here on HP before that change ever occurred, and we still have plenty.
My point was that you can find a lot of low level work by hopping hubs...as many, many writers here have done. There was a distinct downturn right after the change, and many here attributed it to the fact that HP did not do a good job of vetting the incoming posts.
I know darned well, and so do you, that your work is terrific. So calm down. I don't know of one person who ever said any writers that came to HP were trash. Whether people write well or not, adapt or not or whatever, they are still human beings and should never be attacked in that way. I've never seen that, and hope I never will.
I've been noticing that I've been getting 3 times the Pinterest traffic as I do from Google. Why not just write topics that readers at Pinterest like instead of what Google likes! I'm still getting payout, so that is what I am beginning to think.
Besides, I am not impressed with Google's search results at this point. I am tired of trying to satisfy them when there are other ways to earn than worrying about them.
One reason is that HP will unfeature a hub for traffic that has more social networking search results than Google results. Doesn't make any sense to me, but apparently that is what they are doing now, so be careful.
It is okay to have a lot more social networking page views than search engine views, but in order to keep a hub featured they want to see SOME search engine views, even if it is not many. (One of the HP staff said a "heartbeat".)
I have noticed that one of my hubs that gets a lot of social media shares moved up higher on the SERPS and now also gets a few Google results. (According to some people who comment here this does not occur.) So, if we write for a site like Pinterest, like Barbara recommends, we will get plenty of views and not become unfeatured for lack of traffic.
Surprised to hear this because this is exactly what happened to one of my hubs last month. I did have Google views, but apparently the ratio of G views to SN views was lopsided. When I asked about this, what I wrote was what I was told. Thus, my comment.
They unfeatured it? That is ridiculous (from HPs standpoint!). I have one hub with over 96,000 views from Pinterest and Facebook, but only 409 views from Google.com. It has not been unfeatured.
I'm pleased to say my account still has a pulse, but anuary can't get here soon enough...
i have been here nearly six years now, and wouldn't be without it. It is sad when people leave, but I can't imagine my days without it! lol! lost would be a very strong word! it would be nice to earn a bit more but that's not really why I am here, I love the writing, the people and meeting new writers too.
This post was made in the hopes of averting what appears to be another, impending HvS war.
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