Earlier this morning I created a thread on the Hub Makeover forum, because I had emailed Team HubPages and hadn't had a response.
Jason eventually responded and told me what I already knew, that the Hub had triggered the Affiliate link rule because of my RSS feed (to my own blog).
Then he closed the thread, before I could ask him to clarify.
So I opened another thread to ask how an RSS feed to my own website could be classified as affiliate links.
He closed that one as well.
...again without answering the question properly, or giving me a chance to respond.
I was getting annoyed by this time, so I tried one more time.
He gave me the same reply and told me to email team@ (which I've already done twice and got no reply, BTW)
I'm ropable about this. I've never seen topics closed to reply before, except when an argument is getting out of hand - so why close these? It seems to me incredibly impolite to close a thread without even making sure I understood the reply. Am I over-reacting?
No, you're not over-reacting Marisa. Especially if you tried sending the HP team a private email first and got no response.
Just what exactly is this site turning into?
Marisa it seems to me you are not over reacting. I think Jason tried to answer your questions the best he could but failed to give you a satisfactory answer. He then closed the thread rather hastily, in my opinion, and this upset you. You tried for a second time and Jason thought he had already dealt adequately with your question, in his opinion and closed the second thread. This rightly so has upset you enough to think there is a conspiracy against you. Jason has angered you further by bringing up this "blow-back" post which has further exasperated you.
Jason you took it upon yourself to close down a perfectly acceptable thread by Marisa before giving her time to say your answer was incomplete. Make a public apology to Marisa now on this thread or you may get even more "blow-back" than you would wish for.
LOL, I'm not looking for an apology - just anxious that HP staff high-handedly closing threads doesn't become a habit.
We both made assumptions. I assumed that as a HP staffer, Jason would have access to more information than me, so I read his answer as a brush-off - which I now understand it wasn't. As for Jason, I think he assumed I had some hidden agenda for asking my question (which I didn't), and expected me to come back with a smart reply when he posted. That's the trouble with forum posts - they can so easily be misinterpreted.
Like I said, my main concern is - let's not have moderators closing threads just because they think the debate is over. If a thread gets out of hand, by all means close it. If the OP has asked a question and says it's resolved - by all means close it. Otherwise, let's not.
I answered your question in both cases. As I made clear, the only way you're going to get clarification beyond what I provided in my posts was through team@. As busy as they are, you're going to have to wait for an answer from them.
Jason, then you're saying you don't know why the RSS feed is classified as affiliate links? Why didn't you just say so?
And if you hadn't closed the threads, we could have cleared this up with this same exchange at the end of the first one. That's what's really got me mad - it's as if you're trying to muzzle me, and I can't see anything in those threads that would justify that.
I was trying to answer your question. I'm not obligated to patrol the forums answering questions, but I do understand that this is a time of upheaval for a lot of Hubbers, so I try to pitch in here and there and answer questions.
I closed the threads because that was all that I could offer you, and to minimize the amount of blowback that you've usually directed my way (I'm sorry, but that's true).
For the record, Jason, and HP staff, it's also okay and quite helpful to say something like:
"I'm not quite sure. Let me look into it--give me 48 yours--and I'll get back to you."
That way you can avoid knee-jerk reactions that make you look inconsistent, unhelpful and defensive.
Obviously Marisa's concerns were not answered otherwise she wouldn't have felt the need to persist for further clarification. (At least three times.) Obviously, you are not obligated to go around the forums cleaning up messes and spills, BUT YOU DO. And if you're going to do that, just be honest and stop being so defensive, acting as if everybody here is after you somehow. It makes you look foolish and paranoid.
As I said to Simone, I GET that you guys are under huge pressure. But you don't have to treat any of us like we're the enemy. Obviously HP staff is confusing the hell out a lot of people here, and all we're doing it asking for clarification, while you guys act as if we're on some kind of revenge mission.
We follow a protocol (when we do respond here in the forums). For matters beyond what I'm able to answer based on publicly-available information or information that's available to the author in any notification emails or in the notification box at the top of the Hub (which, I, as an admin, can see), the moderation team would like to converse with the Hubber directly. They do not want me to send an email to them to ask; they want the Hubber to ask directly. It completely makes sense, and I'm happy to oblige.
As it turns out, when I've advised the Hubber that there was nothing more I could do, and nothing else anyone in the community could do, to answer their very specific question/concern, the Hubber was, in fact, able to get resolution by emailing team@. No one else but the moderation team would have been able to answer that question, and the only way to reach them is via email.
I hope you understand why we do things the way we do.
LOL, Jason, are you scared of me?
I don't recall making a habit of giving you "blowback" as you call it, over the last three years. You got an argument from me on another thread recently, because I felt you were dismissing a point that was important. I'm pleased to see that Simone has now updated her blog post and the FAQ, so obviously my point wasn't as unimportant as you tried to make out.
I can't see what blowback you could have expected in this instance, when I was asking a straightforward question about my Hubs.
And anyway, surely the right way to deal with "blowback", if you think it's inappropriate, is to ban the person concerned from the forums. It's a dangerous precedent, surely, to start closing threads to silence someone in case they offend.
Just an update.
Before asking my question about my Hubs on the forums, I had sent two emails to Team HubPages and got no reply. That's why I resorted to asking for help here.
I tried sending another email to the team but got no response - and I've now received an email saying one of the Hubs has been unpublished. No doubt the rest will follow.
So Jason, don't be so glib about refusing to help people and telling them to email team@ - it doesn't work.
It may be pure coincidence - but I also had a hub unpublished for 2 weeks, immediately after I criticised Jason's heavy handed, arrogant and high-handed approach to the issues in these threads.
I'll give it ten minutes then pop around my few hubs to see if it happens again
I had nothing to do with either of your Hubs being unpublished. I know I'll be accused anyway, but that's the truth. And that's why I've chosen to limit my involvement here in the Forums. It's a no-win situation.
As I said before, there's nothing more I can do to resolve your question and you'll have to contact team@. I know their turnaround time is long right now, but they are working as fast as they can.
Jason, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories and I'm not suggesting my complaints had anything to do with the Hub being unpublished.
I am complaining about the fact that contacting team@ is not working well right now, and it's grossly unfair to give people only a few days to fix their Hubs, if it's so hard to get assistance.
I know they're busy. The point is, the deadline to unpublish Hubs should be set to allow Hubbers time to ask for, and get information on what the problem is. Anything else is simply unreasonable.
I understand that one of the overload issues is the quantity of new crap that is published must be moderated
You would think that a simple rule that requires new accounts to be moderated before they can publish would stop them entering
and those who have been part of HP for some time would then be put at the top of the list for moderation and help.
The fact that there appears to be no preference for the 'customer base' over 'new business' shows a lack of many essential qualities such as duty of care, trust, confidence, etc., etc., etc.
The way that 'essential' changes leading to unpublished hubs were not thought through and implemented in one package that was clear, unambiguous and supported with a help desk - just displays incompetence and panic - to then be rude about it is the icing on the cake.
For those with high numbers of hubs, you know, those established hubbers who have been following Hubpages rules for a couple of years, to make the changes requires a significant amount of time and effort, just a little less abrasive treatment, a little less panic and a little more information and help should be a RIGHT.
I have few hubs and am hardly affected, but I have no intention of putting up any more until I regain confidence that this week's TOS is stable and will not change by next week.
Your Hub (Isis Wings) is not unpublished. If you want to make sure it's not unpublished, why wouldn't you reduce the number of links to your DVD site from 3 to 2 as instructed in the notification email, and wait to hear back from team@ before increasing it?
You've done the opposite - you've increased the number of links to 8.
The Isis Wings Hub is not the one I'm referring to.
It's another Hub with the same RSS feed. And the feed always had 8 items - I did reduce it, but it seems to have been reinstated (which is odd, because I notice another Hub that I updated has gone back to a former version - did HP do some kind of restore at some point?).
I've now received an email from the Team saying they made a mistake, they've reclassified the domain and republished the hub.
I didn't want to remove the feed, because I wanted the team to see what the problem was.
I think part of the problem is a Hubpages staffer tried to answer a question he was apparently not qualified to answer and is trying to justify it by silencing the writer, then, when that didn't work, demeaning her.
Amazing what this has come to.
I am very sorry Marisa you are being treated this way.
Just my two cents worth, and I'm willing to stick my neck out...
I feel that EVERYONE is hot around the collar, sensitive to what has and is happening and misunderstanding/assumptions/miscommunication is tearing this community apart.
In defense of Jason, we all make errors in judgement, but we don't need to rally together and gang up on him. Jason and the HP team are, without a doubt, driving towards a strategic plan that the company has determined to be its path. If you don't agree with it, then you have the option of opting out of this site. If you agree with it, then stay but quit your bellying aching and criticism.
Frankly, I'm tired of the bashing -- when the going is good, everyone is complimenting HP. When the going gets tough -- the bad mouthing, bad attitude and posse mentality sets in. Every site, every company has its good times, and its tough times. It's all part of business.
Jason, you, Simone, Maddie and the Team, you put with a lot through the forums and private emails. I commend you all on the work that you do, and for having the tolerance and patience to address issues without losing your cool. Hats off to you!
Hear Hear Beth 100 Jason is doing his best but I'm sure he is strong enough to stand his ground with the ganging up. Those that are complaining obviously cant comply with the current rules ...wheres the problem? Its obvious it is not his fault they continue try to manipulate the rules of HP Great post Beth
WoodsmensPost, as it turned out, I had complied with the rules - it turned out my Hub was penalized by mistake.
And are you sure you know exactly what the current rules are? I hope you're regularly checking Simone's blog post and sticky forum post, because new details have been added to the rules in both in the last week or two, more than once.
Beth, everyone is allowed to make an error of judgment - but if they do, and insult people as a consequence, they should apologise for it.
Did you read my original thread? I asked a polite question, and Jason gave an incomplete answer and closed the thread. I needed to get more clarification so the only thing I could do was open another thread. At that point I wasn't angry, I was just asking politely for information. When he closed that thread too, I was upset, because my Hubs stood to be unpublished if I couldn't get an answer - and my emails to the team had gone unanswered.
I think I'm entitled to be annoyed about that. Especially as the unpublishing turned out to be due to an error in moderating,and I hadn't broken any rules after all.
I am slightly offended by this long 'a---lick' for HP staff. If myself and Marissa and the odd drop-in is ganging up on HP staff then you have never been in a group of more than three people.
And it is perfectly correct behaviour to point out faults in the system and in the way staff deal with it, or don't deal with it in this case. I have not seen any bad-mouthing or belly-aching in all of it, except maybe from Jason, just a little.
And all the teamy weemies having such a hard time, PLEEEESE give us a break, if they had kept up with the times and not got complacent (or greedy) we would not be in this situation - they are just having to work as hard as any hubber here with a few hundred hubs after a long time swanning it, while Google pronounced on what they were going to do, warned what they were going to do, and then rolled out what they said they would.
Without criticism our 'team' would never know what people think about them and the people are HP, without hubs they are nothing, without us to sell they have no product.
But then, I guess you would run in and tell your boss he was a great guy when he cuts everyone's wages - would you ?
I think out of everyone here, I would have to agree with Beth. She makes a lot of valid points. Plus, you have to remember in addition to having their normal hubpages accounts to worry about, the staff has to worry about moderating forums, hub issues and other various hubber complaints. There's only so little of them, and about over a 1000 of us. Therefore, I think we need to cut them some slack, as there's really only so much work they can handle at the moment. Sure, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not really happy with some of the changes made to this site, but I'm willing to go with it if it means the long term success of this site.
@ Marisa -- Yes, I did read your threads. I understand where you are coming from and am not judging you on your reaction. The problem I see is the reaction of others towards Jason and HP. I'm glad that it was resolved for you. The responses were no longer about your issue, it became personal opinions of the site and of Jason. I don't believe this was your intent nor Jason's.
@ Recommend1 -- You can be offended as much as you want. Your feelings belong to you. However, I draw the line when you provoke and attack personally. This is exactly what I was saying. You are NOT stating an opinion. You are accusatory, judgemental and disrespectful. Marisa stated her opinion without condemning anyone. You, on the other hand, are condemning.
Why the personal attack on me? What did I do to you? You are a hypocrite. You can post your opinion but I can't? It appears that it is YOU who has never been in a business world, or social group, that involves more than yourself.
As they say, people who defend themselves and are judgemental simply project their intolerances and inabilities upon others. You can't have two sets of rules -- one for you and one for everyone else.
Pointing out a fault in the system can be done constructively in a manner that grows the other party so that they can learn and not repeat the error. First rule of management.
Bad mouthing and gossiping of others is not tolerated. Gossiping, by the way, is defined as speaking about anyone without them being in your presence. Second rule of management.
Open mindedness and acceptance of feedback. Third rule of management.
Working as a team with the same goal and pulling in the same direction at the same time equates to success for all. Win-Win. Fourth rule of management.
Conflict resolution involves only the parties that it is affecting and a third party at arms length. The third party must maintain a position of neutrality and is simply there to guide the process and ensure that the discussions remain on track to resolve the issue. The most important rule of management in business, family, and social life.
hmmm... wonder where you get off accusing me considering you know nothing about me and have never addressed me in the past.
Perhaps you owe ME an apology.
There was no personal attack on you - just on the words you wrote that accused me of :
bellyaching bashing bad mouthing, bad attitude and some kind of posse mentality.
most of which are directly untrue.
Also nobody suggested that you could not voice your opinion, and you disprove that disingenuous statement by doing just that.
Claiming you are under attack after you have been rude to someone is normal modern office tactics, I know, I've been there and got out.
Criticising HP team and Jason is a perfectly respectable hobby, I am sure THEY know they have made mistakes ! Pointing out glaring errors in the way and manner that complaints have been dealt with is quite reasonable I think.
If HP team ever seriously disagree with me they only have to click a mouse and I am gone, now THAT would be rude, but still understandable
I quote you: "If myself and Marissa and the odd drop-in is ganging up on HP staff then you have never been in a group of more than three people."
You have directed your words at ME. This is not a general statement.
Again, I quote you: "But then, I guess you would run in and tell your boss he was a great guy when he cuts everyone's wages - would you ?"
You direct your words at ME again. Your statement was not a general statement.
How could I not interpret your attack personally??
I never mentioned your name or anyone's name. I made a general statement.
I was not rude to you in any direct manner. I reiterate, my statement was a general statement without any names being used.
Critiquing in a negative and demeaning manner is not a hobby. It's commonly known as bullying. Society doesn't tolerate it. And, critising is not respectable. Respectable feedback is positive, encouraging and helps the other person to grow with confidence. Truth be said, you will also grow from this positive experience. There is nothing more satisfying than helping another person to become more aware of themselves, stronger and more confident. Negativism does not contribute to any of the above and only causes the perpetrator to become angry with low self confidence and low self esteem.
In all my time here on HP, I have seen apologies and admittance of errors and midjudgements from the HP team. I have also seen this of fellow hubbers. I have also seen solutions put forward and executed to the satisfaction of all the parties. It`s not 100% of the time, but I would say it`s about 80%. Pretty good stats in my books.
The ability to accept each others' mistakes, admitting to mistakes, correcting it, and moving forward have been the strongest points on this site. This is why there are so many seasoned writers here.
Everyone has the right to call another on a error. It's how it is done that counts. There is a tendancy for everyone to jump on the bandwagon just because there is no better reason. If there is a problem, deal with it in a constructive manner where all parties benefit from the solution.
I highly doubt that anyone would want to dispose of a good looking panda like you. And, I have always found the HP team to be reasonable. Everything is negotiable == the key is arriving at favorable terms to both sides.
I've had my say, so let's just let this rest. I've had the chance to voice my opinion. I can't speak on your behalf, but I hope that you feel that you've had the same opportunity.
Let's agree to disagree. I'd rather spend my time and energy on something a bit more productive... maybe another hub or, better yet, lead my team for their fifth consecutive win this season.
you're the first to ban me!! Congratulations! Can we go out for a drink now? It's almost Friday!!
It has been friday already half a day here !!! you are welcome to join us for dinner in a couple of hours at a nice little German restaraunt down by the river followed by drinkies at the Shangri La hotel till midnight - but we have to go then as 'she' has to get up for teaching work at 6am on Saturdays
I completely agree, Beth, and that's the reason I find the current situation so upsetting. I'd be willing to say that before Panda, the HP staff were ready to admit and apologise for mistakes over 90% of the time. Since Panda, it's more like 10% of the time, and grudging at that.
Does being rude to people in an 'indirect' manner make it any better?
What happens in the real world, when you 'grin and bear' everything, is that you get shat on, over and over. And of course, only a moron would allow themselves to be shat on, without making some effort to protest. Whether effective, or not.
You can be sure that when the likes of: Marisa, Sunforged, and even Darkside, have had enough, that something is very wrong. And no amount of rainbow flavored candy-cane cheerleading is going to change that fact.
There was no intent of being rude, and quite frankly, I don't feel that I was being rude. I was merely stating my own opinion. How you want to construe it is totally up to you.
Grin and bear? You obviously have not read any of my hubs because if you have, you would know that I have grinned and beared it in the past. I bear the scars to prove it. I also bear the scars to prove that I'm a survivor and that I do not sit complacently. Never. I speak up, and with my background, I have learned to do it loudly but with grace and tact. I am heard. I provide solutions with win-win outcomes. Protesting doesn't resolve anything. Stepping up to the plate with an offering of a solution and negotiating to attain the best solution for all involved will resolve the issue.
I respect Sunforged and Darkside -- they will state their opinions, and I have yet to see them attack anyone on a personal note. I do know that they approach with the means to find a solution. I also know that they step away when they don't agree -- they don't sit and whine or jump on the band wagon of bashing. They state their mind and they leave.
As I said originally, everyone is hot around the collar. Everyone is jumpy. Everyone is defensive. Everyone is looking for someone to blame. Everyone should take a step back and breathe. We've lost the focus of this thread -- Marisa wanted an answer and she received it. She was offered a solution and the issue was resolved.
Mr. Voodoo, are you saying that those particular hubbers are always right about everything they say? Look, we all have a right to voice our opinions, and complain if something doesn't seem right. However, that doesn't give us the right to criticize someone's opinion just because they differ from yours. Seriously, are you saying that anyone who disagrees with you must be an idiot? If so, then you obviously have a lot to learn about life in general.
Look if you honestly knew Beth, then you'd know she's every bit as rational about her way in thinking as even the hubbers you speak of.
Yes, the changes that have been made aren't that popular, but we have to understand that the hubpage staff is under even more pressure than any of us here on hubpages. Yes, Marisa has a right to voice a complaint just like anyone else here, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we have the right to immediately attack the staff for any and all problems that happen. It's not right. Take in mind if hubpages really wanted to, they could just close down the site completely, and there would be nothing any of us could do about it. Yet, they're still trying to recover from the panda incident, so we know they're trying. All I'm saying is let's wait and see what happens, as I'm sure the staff is working hard on these issues.
Stevennix, how many times have I said exactly that on these forums, when someone has bleated about their non-complying Hub being taken down, or being banned from the forums?
It's something I always bear in mind. And I do respect the right of HubPages to make the changes they're making. I'm not expert enough to know whether they're right or not, so I'm not going to judge.
My anger here was never about that. It was about two things:
- The principle that forum threads shouldn't be closed just to shut someone up, unless they've been abusive.
- My perception that Hubbers were being fobbed off with inadequate replies in the forums when they were entitled to have their concerns addressed.
I hope the former won't happen again. As for the latter, it's now been explained that Jason and Simone are under instructions not to disturb the moderators to get answers to forum questions, so my perception was wrong. That has now been discussed at some length on another thread - though I still feel there needs to be some kind of last resort for Hubbers whose emails haven't been answered.
Hey MrV nice to cya as usual.
Sadly though ,just like in the real world ,even the best writers on here (including many we never see post in the forum) are ALL dispensable.
That being said, Ive always felt that some people are difficult to please or perhaps demand more than whats on offer.
For example I always thought I should have had a 'e' on my avatar ,or been contacted for an interview
Didn't happen ,in the long run saved me from getting delusions I spose
How did you manage to get both (the trying hardly to be the funny one and the good hearted one) to answer to your question in the same thread. WOW!
SF will be very proud of you.
So am I.
I just learned something today! ropable is a new word for me!
ropable , ropeable
1 capable of being roped
2 (Austral. and N.Z.)
b wild or intractable
a ropable beast
I guess its used more "down under" but I love it when I get a new word - thanks Marisa!
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