New Idea for a Cause of Low Traffic - Too few words in your Profile

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  1. janderson99 profile image54
    janderson99posted 12 years ago

    I did a quick survey prompted by the PR rank of my profile being 0 (???).
    I think we may have forgotten about out profile which is now the 'mother' page for our subdomain. Mine had several spelling mistakes and only had 120 words. On my own websites I have found that pages rank best when they have a minimum of 250-300 words. There is no minimum for Google - but most seo guides recommend 250-300. To get an article published on hub pages you need a minimum of 300 words(?)

    The results of my quick survey are shown below - Note many have spelling mistakes (including mine). May be worth considering a review and upgrade!

    IzzyM 79 words
    lisabeaman  85 words
    kmackey32 139 words
    Pcunix 58 words
    frogdropping 51 words
    lrohner 72 words
    psycheskinner 26 words
    PaulGoodman67 57 words
    Glenn Stok 70 words
    HRoger 119 words
    Paul Edmondson 32 words
    Will Apse 102 words
    Fiction Teller 31 words
    sofs 94 words
    Mutiny92 150
    Bendo13 96 words
    wordscribe43 209 words
    Randy Godwin 244 words
    michifus 241 pages
    Mark Ewbie 234 words

    > 250 words

    tlpoague on 294 words
    Eaglekiwi 462 word
    wilderness 271 words
    CMHypno 292 words
    WriteAngled 265 words
    Peggy W 423 words
    Richieb799 429 words

    1. Stacie L profile image85
      Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      well you prompted me  to do a word count and I have 416 and low traffic..
      there are other variables bu a longer profile word count probably wouldn't

      1. janderson99 profile image54
        janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        lots and lots of links

  2. Randy Godwin profile image61
    Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago

    If this is the case for the penalties, then screw them.  I will trust no company with such petty issues.

  3. Hestia DeVoto profile image60
    Hestia DeVotoposted 12 years ago

    Since most people who find one of your hubs is going to find the hub straight from a search engine and not from being on your profile page, I don't buy your theory.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hestia, that's not the point.  Google is looking at our sub-domain as a whole, and if Google thinks our "home" page is inadequate, that could cause a penalty.

      However, not sure that's the case.  My profile blurb is 180 words and my traffic went up after the sub-domain switch and has stayed up.

      1. quicksand profile image81
        quicksandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Mariza, do you think having too many internal links on the home page would not be advisable?

  4. FloraBreenRobison profile image60
    FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years ago

    My profile  is LONG. I didn't bother to count the number of words but in terms of the number of lines, I have 42 lines. There is an average of 15 words per line,m although some lines are just  the name of a weebsite or where I went to school. But there is easily 500 words. The most views I haveever gotten over a 24 hour period was under 150 when I was nominated for a hubnugget-not I have only 33 hubs-and otherwise unless I want my numbers  to be about 10 per 24 hours, I publish reletively frequently. So I don't buy this theory either.

  5. FloraBreenRobison profile image60
    FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years ago

    I left some words out-you can't edit  forum posts. That sentence should read "when I was nominated for a hubnugget-not a lot, but I only have 33 hubs." I left out "a lot" which made the sentence odd. y overall average per day is 40 views among hubpage views.

  6. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    Mine used to be longer until I read that it is better to have your hubs showing 'above the fold' so I took out unnecessary wording so that my hubs show up easier.

    After all, my home page is there to 'showcase' my work.

    But, interesting observations all the same.

    1. princess g profile image61
      princess gposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's what I'm thinking too

  7. WriteAngled profile image75
    WriteAngledposted 12 years ago

    Looking at my profile with SEO eyes, it is probably disastrous! I do not have a single hub about any of the subjects I mention as my interests. The reasons for that are varied, but usually boil down to three major ones: 1. Competition too high, 2. Topic too obscure, 3. Images would probably be copyright material.

    However, the profile is who I am and I am resistant to changing it.

  8. Lisa HW profile image63
    Lisa HWposted 12 years ago

    It's not like I'm "some big traffic success" on here; because - really - I have tons of stuff that gets little or no traffic.  Still, and at least for now, I don't think I've penalized.  So, for what's it worth:

    My profile is embarrassingly long (just about 500 words of "main stuff", because I wanted to send people to my better Hubs, rather than leave the attention to the Hubs that HP puts underneath the profile).  THEN, though, I've got about another 100 words is "incidental notes/info" (not writing, just quickie stuff). 

    Depending on my mood (which only changes rarely), I've tried a super-brief profile and a "nice-and-brief" one.  I keep the three different ones on hand for quick switching.

    I've always been self-conscious about the longie, and what we hear all the time is that profiles shouldn't be too long, people shouldn't have to scroll down to get the to the Hubs, some people get aggravated when they see a long profile, etc. etc.  STILL, every time I've put up a shorter profile I do better on here, and I don't think I've ever seen a 100 author score when the shorter profile is up. 

    I've tried to make sure the profile is neat and professional looking, and I've broken it up so it won't like like quite the big mess that so many words potentially could.  With the exception of a big drop last week for a few days (down to the area of about 1200 and looking like it was headed down more before it turned around), my traffic's been OK (even good), at least for me.

    One thing I've found since I've been on HP is that what works best (at least for me) on a lot of "issues" is to just do what I think will work for me and for my stuff.  Every time I've ever tried to do, or sort of do, what "everyone says" we should do; it doesn't happen to work for me.  (I'm not talking about the SEO type stuff.  I mean how I, personally, approach "the look and feel" of my writing and "contributions" on here.)  So, I've learned to use my own judgment with regard to my own participation/writing, and it kind of works well for me.  (More SEO I'd do a whole lot better, but that doesn't work for me, as far as my own time/interests to spend on here go.  So be it.)

    I know there are lot of people who really don't think much of some of ways I do things, but there'll always be someone who doesn't like one thing or another.  I can't operate on who doesn't like things, any more than on what "everyone" says works best.

    So I live with a longer profile than I'm comfortable with, writing longer Hubs that most people think is a good idea (or that will be read), not using too many canned photos that (to me) look "glossy but artificial and over-used", and writing long forum comments that wouldn't be long in a real-life conversation but that look ridiculous in writing.  I have no doubt that when "everybody" talks about not being "boring or tedious", I'm a great example of what they mean a Hubber shouldn't be lol, but - hey - I'm middle-aged and not "a wild-and-crazy person" and a long-time writer - hence the "lot-to-say".  I've been so sick of that same profile for so long now, I've recently been thinking about creating a completely new one, creating a "profile annex Hub", and linking to that from the new profile.  All I know is when the longie is up I do better than when I use one of the shorter versions (and that any time I've ever tried to do "what everybody says everybody ought to do"), it never works well for me.  hmm   (I've lived "conflicted" about how to do things for ages now, and when Panda hit I just gave up and REALLY went wild with not caring about "what Google likes", and just doing what I think is most appropriate for my own efforts.  hmm)

    1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
      Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I like that not caring what Google thinks since Panda.  It's as if the rule book went out of the window. Write 'well and get penalized.

      Anyway, I need to go and think of another 16 words for my profile.

      edit: That wasn't so hard. Traffic hasn't moved as yet but I am hopeful.

      1. Lisa HW profile image63
        Lisa HWposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        lol     Really...   With the ups and the downs, and (even before Panda) the thing that (and I quote here) "a way with words isn't enough"; when Panda happened, I just thought, "That's it.  I give up.  Other than TOS, I'm doing what I want to do."  (Well, it was easy right after Panda because there wasn't much to lose anyway lol)  -but even now, I just think there's something to doing what's right, and what works, for each person; and if it doesn't work - then do the next thing.  Even Google "says" it doesn't want people trying to figure out what it "wants"/"likes", so that works for me.  smile

  9. Richieb799 profile image65
    Richieb799posted 12 years ago

    This is a good point, since your profile is essentially like your homepage

    I didn't think of this but the reason mine was already long is because I want to give a respectable insight into what I'm about and in a professional manner.

  10. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    If profiles are that important, and they could well be because Google has said they want author credibility, what is to stop us from presenting totally fictitious qualifications?

    I could become a professor of marine biology with a Ph.D. in English literature thrown in?

    Or a rocket scientist? That don't impress me much (in the words of the song) but if it impresses Google, it does its job!

    1. Lisa HW profile image63
      Lisa HWposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not sure (without even trying to analyze/look it into it anyway) that I think profiles are that important.  I do think, though, that one that makes a Hubber look "bad" could hurt at least to some degree.  I'm not even sure qualifications would be the issue.  Lots of people don't have "impressive" qualifications.  I'm just thinking the overall look and flavor of the profile may could possibly make some difference in some way.

      Google penalties and profiles aside, if I were to guess, I don't think Google's looking for Ph.D's and rocket scientists.  I'd guess they're looking for signs of consistency with stuff that shows the person actually writes and behaves online like someone who actually writes. Besides, I don't know about anyone else; but Google has my legal name, social security number, and real address.  If they really wanted to (not that I think they would), they could easily run some kind of check and, one way or another, see that everything I've presented to them is accurate.  Maybe the authorship thing is heavily based on people's awareness that presenting bad facts could potentially lead to getting their Ad Sense account shut down.  To be honest, I don't trust the profiles of any number of people ("identities") on here, including those who'd come on here and say something like that they're a high-school drop-out from Missouri, with a lifelong struggle with any number of all kinds of negative things.  That's why (even though I draw lines on personal details), I'm in favor of the efforts to get people who have credibility to do a little something to show that they do.  hmm  (regardless of whether their business is writing, marketing, or a combination of both).

  11. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image82
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years ago

    Well okay - I wanted to sell my personal biography as a kindle download *sigh* - guess I'll just put it on my profile instead. LOL!

    1. IzzyM profile image86
      IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Spoken like a true marketer!

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image82
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this


        I can never quit match Mark Ewbie in terms of comedy, but no one can stop me from trying.

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
          Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Oh stop it.  That award was fixed you know.  Cost me fifteen dollars.

    2. lisabeaman profile image68
      lisabeamanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Wesman Todd Shaw... I just read your profile page and I'm pretty sure that would sell in the kindle bookstore! Maybe even some movie rights...  smile

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image82
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this


        Thank You!

  12. lisabeaman profile image68
    lisabeamanposted 12 years ago

    I've been planning to do a serious re-haul on my profile for a few weeks... but did you happen to see the HubPages blog where they gave a preview of the upcoming page layouts? One of them was a new profile page. At first glance it looked great, but several hubbers had some negative feedback. One problem was that the bio text was tucked up into the upper right corner and it was only a few sentences. Readers would have to click a "read more" link to read the rest of the text.

    So... I was planning to wait until they had the new layout worked out and then revisit updating my profile.

    Here's the blog post:

    There was also a forum about it so that hubbers could vent (I mean give feedback):

    My question is... on this new format, there is less text about US, but more text regarding the highlighted hubs. If your theory is right, would that text count?

    1. Stacie L profile image85
      Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Many of us and myself included, have put work into our profiles and feel they are important for readers and potential customers to see.
      I don't want my page tucked away in the corner..hmm

      1. lisabeaman profile image68
        lisabeamanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I'm with you on this... even though I haven't put the work into my profile yet. I'm hoping that the HP staff will agree and make some changes. I guess it's good that they published a preview of the layout before rolling it out. I'm keeping an eye out for what happens before I make any changes to my content.

  13. Lisa HW profile image63
    Lisa HWposted 12 years ago

    I don't really care what they do with the profile page.  I'll do whatever "next thing" works for me from there. 

    I can see, though, how the new one would offer the overall site a little protection from people who don't put in much effort on their profile.  As is it now, people get to the profile page and may or may not get something that looks at least kind of polished.  A whole lot of people have - like - six lines and a goofy user name.  Many don't even bother spacing their six-line blurb so there's some version of balance to the look of the page.  So, I suppose the new thing would take "first impressions" out of the hands of Hubbers (for good or bad), and if anyone wanted to view "more indepth" personalized info on the Hubber, he might be less likely to be expected anything more "professional looking".  hmm

    One thing I don't like about it though (if I understand how it would work) is that if (for some reason) a reader sees a Hubber on the "Hubbers" list on here, decides he wants to know more about the Hubber, and clicks on the profile - he's going to end up having to go through the first profile page before seeing anything about the Hubber, himself.  (I can't imagine anyone being interested in me, personally, but there's aways the chance that someone is just curious about a Hubber.)  Then again, maybe it's better to "distract" the idly curious and keep their attention on the person's Hubs.

  14. peace girl12 profile image58
    peace girl12posted 12 years ago

    who really cares wat you put  online for your profile

    1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image82
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well - if you'd read the post much, you'd have realized that Google seems to care, and that if you wish to maximize yourself in this endeavor, then YOU should care.

  15. brakel2 profile image76
    brakel2posted 12 years ago

    If we finally have page rank, that seems to matter. My profile is fairly long. I have noticed that some hubbers have only a few lines. I find that I don't know anything about them, and that frustrates me. It is important to have an idea about an author to then appreciate their writing.

    1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image82
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree, Ma'am.  It makes a big difference in whether or not I'm going to "follow" someone.  The thing is - all of our hubs are basically "stand alone" pieces so far as the common searcher is concerned.

  16. GmaGoldie profile image82
    GmaGoldieposted 12 years ago

    I, as a reader, care about the home page. 

    I know the subject here is about length, but as a direct tie - perhaps our home page should be updated every 90 days or so?

    And when we write our profile - keep our tags in mind? 

    What are the expert thoughts?  I am here so infrequently, it is hard for me to gauge.

    1. Lisa HW profile image63
      Lisa HWposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      From what I've seen, the HP team generally says that readers shouldn't have to scroll down to get to the Hubs on the profile page.

      Things don't fit well into "generally", though. It can depend on the type of stuff people write, whether they write about one thing (maybe in their area of expertise, shown in a few words on the profile), and any number of things. 

      I write about a bunch of stuff, and I write a lot from assimilated knowledge (including previous research done not specifically for any given Hub).  I was getting comments that made it clear readers wanted to know who/what I was.  I got everything from this:  "Is your target audience professors?  Are you a professor?"  (My target audience for the Hub was junior-high age kids   lol)) to this:  "It's obvious this writer has only read books and has never had to deal with with children in real life herself."  Oh, then I've gotten a few of these, "How do you know?"  My answer was, "Because I've known a lot of people in x situation, and I'm very familiar with what they've been through."  The reply (from an early twenties young man), "Nobody would have had THAT much personal conversation about this."  (Well, he's in early twenties.  I'm in my fifties, a woman (women have groups of friends all their lives, for example), have worked for decades (etc.).

      So, long before Google's "authorship thing", I just decided I'd make sure I made it clear who and what I am (for good, bad, or indifferent) so I wouldn't have to be explaining to people who wondered if I was "just some mother who pulls ideas out of the blue" or, at the other end of things, "a college professor who hasn't ever been in touch with the real world, and only books".

      BUT, if someone's profession is being a nurse, and that person writes only about being a nurse; they don't need a lot in their profile.  OR, if someone's a nineteen year old who writes about the college she's attending, she doesn't need a whole lot of "explanatory" profile either.  The same for people who are web-article writers and write about products.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image86
        Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Actually, I'm not sure HP officially endorsed that view - but I do agree that in the past, that was the consensus amongst Hubbers that you.

        Things have changed now.  And the OP is not talking about how your profile looks to real people - he's talking about how your profile looks to the Google bots.

        With Google's new emphasis on authorship, we're all being told to create a meaningful "About Me" page on our websites or blogs, with a photo and decent amount of content.  Our sub-domains on HubPages are just like a website or blog, and therefore the same should apply. 

        There's no point in getting too hung up on exactly what you say, because the Google bots can't read.  They're only looking for indicators that you've made an effort, such as a photo and a nice chunk of text with no spelling mistakes, naughty words or over-saturated keywords in it.

        That will apply whether HP changes the location of the profile or not.

        1. Lisa HW profile image63
          Lisa HWposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I did stray from the OP's "angle" on the profile issue.  I probably shouldn't have, but I was mainly responded to the post above that asked about who cares what people put on their profile "anyway".  smile I guess I was adding "yet another perspective" (and some other reasons why people might be better off paying a little attention to their profiles).

          I don't dispute or minimize the "bots" factor in profiles; but I think (at least with some types of writing) that the impression on readers can make an indirect, or even direct, impact on the overall picture for someone.   One example might be whether a visit to a profile results in a reader's going to Hubs or finding another profile.  Another example might be the reader who finds a too-brief profile, has no reason not to click on Hubs, but then doesn't have a good enough idea about who/what the author is to recognize that author actually has some background in the subject of the Hub the reader gets to after clicking from the profile (and clicks away because he thinks the author is writing about something in which he has no background - that type of thing).

          Another example (and I don't think I have this subject among my Hubs), might be something like a Hub on preventing tantrums in two-year-olds.  Google's latest emphasis is on writing by experts or enthusiasts.  A reader may not view two-year-olds as something someone is an "enthusiast" on.  That word implies something more like quilting, stamp-collecting, or photography.

          So a reader who doesn't know a person has had x experience with two years olds, and who is going by the latest standards with regard to including specific research on a subject, may be likely to vote down or click away from a Hub written by someone who hasn't specifically pointed out that he's a "expert" on two-year-olds and who doesn't exactly ssee two-year-olds as a matter of being "an enthusiast".

          Another situation:  Just the other idea I was research the subject of "depression" and kept running into perfectly polished and professional blogs that had a good amount of text about depression, but that included nothing about who wrote them.  Anyone who can come up with a professional-looking blog and/or template can create that kind of thing and not include information about who, exactly, wrote the post.  I got aggravated and clicked away because I thought, "If you're not showing readers who/what you are I'm not interested in reading your page" ("and besides, for all I know you may have stolen the article and posted it under your anonymous blog, the way so many people do").  For now, Google had some of these that I'm talking about right in the top few on the search page.  I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before that doesn't happen any longer.  Right now the bots are apparently not always (obviously) detecting the lack of "about me", but I think that's only a matter of time (maybe I'm wrong).

          Google has made it a point that they want writing by human beings for human beings.  Readers who see a piece of writing and have no doubt that it meets that particular "qualification" may decide to share the piece if they're convinced whoever wrote it has some credibility.  I won't go into all the ways I think people shouldn't think "who cares what we put on our profile", but these are just a few reasons I think paying some attention (especially if a person writes the kind of stuff that might require a little more credibility-building than other stuff may) will never hurt and may, in fact, help (even if indirectly).  Conversely, I think there are situations/cases when just slapping up what the bots will "approve of" but not considering what may make a more credible impression on readers could, at least sometimes, hurt.  Credibility isn't a big of a problem for some writers than others.  With the kind of stuff people like me write, it's a big issue.

          One might ask, "Why not just research, include the references, and write an article with a more 'standard' approach?"  My answer to that one is that "unique" is something that's also being emphasized more these days.  Sometimes the best way I can come up with "unique" is write from what I know/have experienced.  That, though, goes back to the credibility thing

          All I know is if Google had a "Minus One" button on those blogs (and sites aimed at selling medication/nutritional supplements for depression) that I kept running into the other day, I'd have been really quick to hit that minus-one button when I was looking for something that showed some shred of "solid-ness" (or at least credibility and sincere effort).  Maybe they'll be a "Minus One" button introduced, but I'd rather be ready for whatever kind of changes might crop up than have to try to deal with a mess if one kind of thing or another crops up in the future.

          As I said, I think the human-impression factor in profiles is less important for some kinds of Hubs than others; but I do think people should at least recognize any ways in which their own writing might be viewed as "of questionable credibility" and address any issues related to that.

          I could eliminate a lot of my own "challenges" by just concentrating on writing where Google traffic isn't a factor, but I'm earning.  I don't want to lose that.  So, I've been deleting, re-thinking approach with any new Hubs, trying to figure out what ought to stay, etc. etc.  In the meantime, and regardless of where I do or don't write from now on, I just figure packaging whatever's already written a little better isn't going to hurt.  (By the way, Google apparently "doesn't like it" when you put your "zillion" half-baked blogs on "private".   lol  lol  Oh, the trials of "trial and error".   roll

  17. classicalgeek profile image81
    classicalgeekposted 12 years ago

    I'm willing to experiment. I bumped up my profile to just over 500 words.

  18. Duane Reeve profile image72
    Duane Reeveposted 12 years ago

    I am new to HubPages, but my feeling is that it doesn't really matter what the length of one's profile is or isn't in terms of Google. Google still works using Keyword Density and will thus check the number of times a particular keyword/phrase appears within your profile and/or hubs. So, I would say it's best to find a suitable keyword or phrase and write a keyword rich profile as opposed to a long profile.

    In order to write such a profile you may have to exceed 300-words to ensure that you don't 'spam' your keywords within your profile. There are other factors, but plain and simple on-page search engine optimisation is still key...


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