I have read numerous hubs while hopping that I thought would be great if the writer did some editing or word smithing. I thought it would be nice to let people know that thier piece could be so much better with out trying to hurt anyones feelings. I have commented on a couple of pages to this effect because the works were so worthy of being published. I often go back and re-read my hubs to see if I catch anything wrong in my work or if I could re-word for better flow. I too would like for someone to tell me if my work could use some editing or word smithing. It lets me know what I need to improve on to become a better writer.
I have been thinking the same thing. Going back and reading some of my hubs has been really embarrassing. Just a Hello did you notice x, y, or z would be really helpful.
Yes there should be something more than just up and down buttons to let the experts tell the author, how he can make his hub even better.
Actually it doesn't.
If you find something that need major editing, then flag the hub and let the moderators know exactly what the problem is with the hub.
Flagging sound harsh. Is that my misunderstanding?
I think flagging is a bit harsh for many that may only need minor typo changes.
Major grammatical errors can be flagged but I think what Tokigostudio1 meant was for minor spelling and typo errors.
I like the editing button idea.
I have left comments while hub hopping saying the hub is interesting, however it could use some photos, or a spell check to try help them out , hoping they don't mind
I have emailed a few people on the side to give them suggestions on fixing a typo or other minor bit of editing that needs to be done. Seems less harsh that way. If it were massive issues I wouldn't bother, I'd just flag it.
I actually kind of like this idea. I never want to comment and say, "Hey you spelled something incorrectly." I've been thinking for a while that it would be nice to have some sort of je ne sais quoi... a feedback system that's kind of more internal than commenting and rating but is constructive.
Because of the "constructive" thing, I mean that perhaps it could be a staff thing. For example if they had another Simone or Maddie who are two fantastic staff members and are really super tactful with things. This person could write things like:
You spelled something incorrectly
This paragraph might need some slight restructuring
You are making a mistake in your image attribution
You might want to lengthen your hub
You might want to decrease the amount of products in your hub
This would be suggestions on hubs that don't break TOS. Anything that breaks TOS, of course, would be modded as such but these would be like pleasant tips or reminders.
I know that this would cost HubPages money in manpower, but it could like be a good thing. If I got a comment, let's say "You might want to make sure your hubs are at least 500 words in length" on one of my hubs, I would check account-wide and make sure my hubs are at least that length... thus they've killed ummm number_of_hub_i_have birds with one stone. The word count could be automated as it's easy as pie to write a word counting script, but this new hubstaff member could just go around and offer friendly tips (in a friendly-only way)
Also, the more high quality hubs there are, the more high quality hubs will be created by non-tipped users. For example, I see a TON of non-attributed photos everywhere and I think that if more hubbers saw images attributed, they would themselves attribute their photos.
Just some weird thoughts.
EDIT: Ooh! It could be like a HubTip for the ones that would be automated. You could also automate the image attribution one, but that would be more difficult. You could do it based on whether or not the user puts a site in the box, but then people could put "Google Images" and link to their google search (although you could have the script put up a flag if google.com is in the attribution field.) Also, people who use their own photos might just put "I totally took this picture" in their attribution and then not link to anywhere. As the script is written in my head, it would, then, incorrectly flag the photo as "not attributed."
I Like the internal feedback system. This is such a sensitive topic especially with new writers, but to get better we have to have feedback.
The problem with a "needs editing" button and it's usage, is that Hubpages is a GLOBAL community of writers, but has one requirement that all writing is in English(US/UK)- US being preferred.
Why? Because, it's a preference laid out in the rules. There are simply too many people who do not have a working knowledge of the English Language, either US or UK.
Contacting them via "needs editing" button is no different than sending them an email, informing them there are errors on their page. However, for those who truly don't have a good knowledge of the English language, it can be very time consuming for the individual and any attempt to help them.
Flagging their hubs and letting the moderators deal with, because it's their job, is the best method and doesn't consume the time of the individual writer, who could be publishing more stuff or flagging other things or helping other people.
I agree with the value of an internal system that would alert the writer of a Hub that is fairly close to flawless that there are some little goofs that were overlooked.
The major problems (inadequate English skills, large numbers of spelling, grammar, punctuation errors) still need to be modded.
Rather than hiring someone to do this work, I would prefer having a button or buttons in the Hopper that could be clicked, indicating "needs light editing for spelling," "needs light editing for punctuation," "needs light editing for grammar."
Or perhaps, instead of being on the Hopper (since that sends the message to the Mods first and so requires moderation) put similar buttons on Hubs; make them visible to and usable only by signed-in Hubbers and staff; and make sure that the results would never be visible to anyone except the Hub writer and HubTeam.
Of course, there would still be a discrepancy among Hubbers as to what constitutes light vs. heavy editing. But it would at least give a gentle and quick way to alert writers that they could polish their work better, for the benefit of their traffic.
I think you're on to something as a solution to all this. If I might just modify your idea a little...
How about a feature that any Hubber can turn on or off that would globally include such a button on each of their Hubs. The button would only be seen by logged in Hubbers and it would say something like "Notify Author Of Improvement" Or simply "Heads Up" and Hubbers will know what it means.
Remember that it only appears if the Hubber wants to be notified of errors. So it won't hurt an unsuspecting Hubber or one who doesn't take criticism well.
Clicking the button would go to a page just like the one when you click the envelope icon to contact a Hubber. It would basically be a field where one can type some pointers or helpful thoughts for improvement.
This button would be enabled individually from the "contact Hubber icon button." So either one can be enabled or disabled as desired.
Sending these notices direct to the Hubber avoids sending these types of notices to the moderators since they can't do anything about it anyway. It's not an issue for moderation, it's an issue for the Hubber themselves to decide to make use of. Flagging is for the sole purpose of TOS issues.
I always forget but I think it's something like, Terms of Service or Terms of Subscription?
Yes, of course, Thanks Glenn for the reminder.
Ah, I thought it was something like that. Thanks for the info. Of course, when it comes up again I probably won't remember the definition!
Basically, I like your idea for modification. But on the other hand it's often the ones who don't take criticism well whose work actually needs editing. If the button(s) could be hyped as a way to upgrade quality and to prevent future problems, it might be better accepted. (In some cases, it could perhaps even prevent future Moderation, since there have been some seemingly minor errors that may have triggered it in the past. I think.) The recipient would need to have a way to delete notifications after they have been received, just as we do with comments and fan mail.
I can also see the unfortunate possibility that such a button could be abused by a disgruntled Hubber - maybe someone who got ticked off in the forums? But since that possibility exists also with the Contact a Hubber button, it may not ultimately be a significant problem
Aficionada - I agree with you that those are the ones who need input from others. But with this plan, it's up to each individual to ask for it or not, by enabling that button or not. Your idea to hype it to be more acceptable and easier to handle is a great idea! Many of us want to help others but we have to handle some with kid gloves. As for deleting the notifications, that would not be necessary since they would come privately via email.
Glenn, this sounds like the best solution. No one likes to be criticized in a public comment, but a community of writers of all places should have a discreet way to alert a hubber to glaring errors.
"Word Smithing" - Like that term!
Anyway, I often spell things wrong and have grammar issues to match keyword phrases of other countries. I have a Spanish friend for example who doesn't know much English, enough for conversation and argument but doesn't truly speak it well. I ask him how he would phrase something and I put it like that in my Hub. Due to the lack of grammar from India, Asia, and Spanish speaking countries I find I get extra traffic from these places.
I do get somewhat annoyed when people pick up on this. I guess that's to be expected. I mean heck, a grammar or spelling error around writers is like smoking a joint in the police station - they going to speak up and say something
I notice that all the comments I see on hubs are very positive or maybe just questioning a fact etc. We are all so nice. I personally have expected (and really wanted) some advice or critique (not criticism) of my topic, how it is presented, grammer, spelling, In other words, if something stands out for a person reading my hubs, I wish they would say what it is. This would/could help me immensely.
My only potential problem, for me and the person making the remarks, is that the remarks are seen by the public. I assume we can not 'allow' the comments.
It would appear that there are a number of truly gifted and experienced writers who could help newbies easily and quickly with comments other than nice ones. Any thoughts?
I could help if you like. I would read then email you and not really leave a comment about the critique. We could help each other. You could also do the same for me too.
Maralexa - I agree with you. I have made comments in a comment box and expected them to be deleted and then they thanked me! So now I always email. But that's only on things that are written well. I don't when there are lots of mistakes.
I just went and started following you, and I will correct you if you agree to check me. I hate to have errors out there.
Maralexa, have you thought about asking another hubber whose work you admire to give you that critique (the good and the not so good)? You could ask them to send you a private email. That way it wouldn't be out there for everyone to read.
I think an edit button is very necessary because Spell Check can't catch names, places, tenses, or grammatical inconsistencies.
One thing that I would like, if this feature were to exist is maybe only certain users would be allowed to give criticism, kind of like the Elite HubPages program.
This is because, while some users don't take criticism really well, there are lots of people who don't give criticism very well. I love HubPages and there are some really great people in this community, but there are some people who can get very mean. I think enabling something like this in a free-for-all type atmosphere could lead to more fights and hurt feelings -- something that HubPages already has plenty of.
I agree with Melbel regarding that there is a right way and a wrong way to give criticism. If such a program existed I wouldn't mind "applying" to it. I enjoy helping people improve their writing skills and make their work better. (ask my sister )
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