I've given up on hub page altogether

1. 53

   wabondposted 16 years ago

   I've been trying to make up a hub page for the last few days but whenever i try it i get told I'm doing something wrong, I attempt to change things but i get the same old nonsense.
   
   I've got better things to do with my life without messing about trying to satisfy the whim of some unknown censor.
   
   William Bond

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   1. 50

      Paul Bovinoposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I wish more people would stand up and voice their frustration with these ridiculous websites where communication is limited to cyberspace. I'm having nothing further to do with this, or any other website where one can't make at least a phone contact. Let's all stop pandering to this impersonal nonsense and shut this dehumanized system down.
      
      Paul Bovino.

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      1. 70

         Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Paul:
         
         I'm sorry you're frustrated.  Unfortunately, with such a small team, it would be impractical for any of us to be readily reachable by phone--I would never get a chance to actually look at any of the content, because I'd be constantly barraged with calls about questions that can easily be answered via email, and probably plenty of threats and choice name-calling as well.
         
         I do answer every email the comes into the team email box personally, which is more than companies who outsource their customer service to India can say.  So in a way, we're more "humanized" than many other websites out there.
         
         If you'd like to discuss this further, please shoot a note to team(at)hubpages(dot)com, and I'll make it a priority to get back to you ASAP.

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2. 85

   Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

   Maybe if you give us some examples, we can help work out what's going wrong and set you on the right track?

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3. 70

   WHoArtNowposted 16 years ago

   Sounds like it could be an "over promotional" flag to me, otherwise why would he talk about censor?

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4. 76

   Bard of Elyposted 16 years ago

   I first brought William over to Hub Pages where he has been responding with detailed answers and getting a lot of feedback in my hub on the subject Should Women Rule the World?
   I was looking forward to seeing him publish his own works here but am not sure what has gone wrong.
   
   He sent me this email at one stage:
   
   I just went on Hub pages again and my hub which i thought they deleted reappeared so a made a few changes on it and republished it. Hopefully it will be all right. Anyway it is at. -
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Mermaids--Witches-and-Amazons
   
   I went to have a look but it wasn't there so I told him and he sent me:
   
   Hi Steve
   
   It says it will be published once it has been reviewed by the administrator. I just hope he likes the subject matter. I'll have a look at it again tomorrow. Thanks for looking at it for me.
   
   William
   
   That was yesterday.
   
   He just sent me the same message he has posted here and, as I say, I don't know what has gone wrong but feel it is a great shame if he has been put off before he even got started, especially as William has much to share, including his writings on matriarchy, which he and I feel is the solution to world problems!

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5. 77

   Lissieposted 16 years ago

   There's a misconception here Bard: there is no censorship on hubpages: most of my unpublished hubs have the WARNING that they are substandard: only because I havent added anything to them - is that's what scaring him off?

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      Bard of Elyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know, Lissie, but thanks for responding and I will tell William!

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   2. 53

      wabondposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Lissie
      
      Thanks for calling my hub substandard, is this the way you normally welcome people to hub-pages?
      
      William Bond

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         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         A little touchy aren't we?
         
         Lissie was talking about something completely different and offering advice as to why you might be having a problem.
         
         Really looking forward to having you around Mr. Bond .........

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         1. 53

            wabondposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Mark
            
            I don't mean to be touchy, i am not normally like this, but Hub pages have messed me about too much, so I feel I don't want any more to do with them.
            
            I never had any problem putting my stuff on sites like Youtube, Yahoo. Myspace or Google, but then these big players put effort into making themselves user-friendly. My experience of Hub pages is not like this.
            
            William Bond

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            1. 61

               Eric Graudinsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

               Hub Pages IS user friendly, and thankfully nothing like the sites you mention.
               Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve needed, and yes, it can be frustrating when you first start off.
               Have you read the guidelines for Hub Pages?
               Have you spent a bit of time getting the "Vibe" of the place"
               
               It appears that you are not really understanding what Hub Pages is about, or why people love it here.
               
               Trust your friend the Bard.
               Just step back a bit, be prepared to learn a few new things, and have a bit of patience before you give up.
               
               And if you choose to go - I hope you find what you're looking for at Myspace.
               That's probably a better place for you if you are going to go off half cocked when someone tries to help you, like Lissie did. You would do well to check out some of her work.
               
               Eric G.

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      2. 76

         ngurecoposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         But seriously though I do not see where Lissie refer to your hub as substandard.
         
         Welcome back Bond.

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      3. 77

         Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus that's a first abused for trying to help.
         
         I suggest you try reading more carefully, I can't quite see the problem with my sentence above.  Obviously its a bit long and I could have parsed it more accurately, but the gist was, and is, that there is a standard warning on an unpublished hub with no content: that says:
         WARNING: This hub is in danger of being flagged Substandard.
         
         Reading all the words, not just what you think was written,  helps when following instructions on hubpages (and on the internet in general) to do what is asked, not what you THINK is asked. Its also useful when communicating in forums with humans.

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6. 69

   waynetposted 16 years ago

   It takes time to create hub pages maybe you need to wrestle with the demons of having that substandard flag banished!!

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7. 65

   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   Throwing tantrums publicly and biting a helping hand really fits better within Myspace.
   
   I think you will have better luck there

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8. 60

   Marian Swiftposted 16 years ago

   William ...
   
   Lissie is correct.
   
   For example -- I often start a Hub and save it before it's complete (and before I publish it). 
   
   And if I have little or no text in it, I get the same warning every time.
   
   It is only an automated warning that I need to add more content ... or else some readers might flag the Hub.
   
   But the Hub in question is only a draft, and not yet published.  Readers can't see it.  Hub Pages staff can't see it ... unless I ask them to look at it for some reason.  So it did not actually get flagged or deleted or blocked in any way.
   
   Is that what's been happening to you?
   
   Once I have a few hundred words of text saved, the warning goes away.

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9. 53

   wabondposted 16 years ago

   Hi all
   
   I think i had better leave hub-pages for awhile, since i attempted to make up my own hub-page my experience of hub-pages have been very, very negative.  And i certainly don't want to start taking it out on other people or get involved in a argument.
   
   Perhaps I might come back at a later date and try again when i am in a better frame of mind.
   
   William Bond

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      Dorsiposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry you are going but I really think you could work this out- HubPages has been very user friendly for me, that's why I publish here instead of other places I've checked out.

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10. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    I think the warning that appears on the hub in question makes it pretty clear what the problem is.
    
    
    
    The text you put in your hub can also be found here, among other places.
    
    http://stores.lulu.com/wabond
    
    You can learn more about our definiton of overly promotional in this hub.

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11. 70

    Maddie Ruudposted 16 years ago

    William:
    
    Please take a look at the response Paul Deeds has given you just above.  Your hub was flagged for outbound links on duplicate content (as the warning Paul quotes above clearly  states), and when you continued to resubmit your hub over and over again without making the necessary changes to bring it into compliance, I even sent you a personal email describing the problem and pointing you to http://hubpages.com/hub/Overly-Promotional, the hub Paul's linked you to above.
    
    If you have confusion about our policies you are always free to email me at team(at)hubpages(dot)com.

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12. 60

    Marian Swiftposted 16 years ago

    Overly Promotional and Duplicate Content.  OK, I never got those warnings before, being a naturally Substandard type myself.
    
    I was looking forward to his writings on Matriarchy, but from the looks of things, William may simply be happier with a different cyber-community.

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13. 53

    wabondposted 16 years ago

    Hi Everyone
    
    Thanks for everyone trying to be helpful, i did have one last attempt at it and re-wrote my whole Hub page but i was still blocked. (Yes i did press the publish button)
    
    I'm sure if i was to persist i would get it through but i just don't have the time to mess about like this as I am in the middle of trying to write a new book.
    
    William Bond

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    1. 70

       Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       William:
       
       Once a hub has been flagged, and you make the necessary changes and resubmit it, you have to wait until I manually review it before it is republished.  I simply hadn't done that yet.  It's now up and running again.
       
       No, they are not paying me extra for moderating in the middle of the night.

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          shinujohn2008posted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Maddie dear Good Night. Have a nice sleep....Don't wake up in the middle of night seeing dreams that Hubbers are crawling into Your Room With Bleeding Eyes asking you to moderate their hubs.

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14. 53

    wabondposted 16 years ago

    Hi Everyone
    
    Suddenly i have been informed that my hub has been cleared for publication, i found a message about it in my spam box.
    
    William Bond

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15. 61

    Smarticusposted 16 years ago

    I would have to disagree with Lissie's assertion that there is no censorship on HubPages. I can identify with William to a point.
    
    I recently had a Hub flagged as listed for "duplicate content" and "overly promotional". I had rewritten portions of the hub and a Google based program told me I did not have significant duplicate content and would not get a penalty for the content in question. That was not good enough for Hubpages. No problem. I rewrote and resubmitted. The duplicate content flag was lifted, but I continued to have a flag for Overly Promotional.
    
    That was where I was upset. The website I had linked to promoted a free teaching method, information, ebooks, and downloads, all but one of which are free (that one is a whole $3). There was only one outgoing link and the website was directly related to the content. I still had to prod moderators and point this out to get the overly promotional flag lifted, though I was plainly well within the guidelines in what I had. There was never more than one outgoing link to that one website at any time.
    
    Now, I do have to say that Maddie reviewed the site not long afterward and published it. I, and I hope all other Hubbers, understand that the job of the moderators is usually pretty thankless, difficult, and I am very sure, harried and stressful. I want to say thank you very much, especially Maddie, for the job you do in making it possible for us to publish.
    
    On the other hand, some of the more adept Hubbers should be a little less judgmental and a little more conciliatory in their advice to beginning Hubbers. I got more than one critical comment that was uncalled for and condescending.
    
    I like the interface at HubPages better than similar sites, and enjoy the community here. I must admit that Squidoo is easier to use. I think that the additional hoops to jump through are worth it, thought with the reception from some Hubbers it is only just so.
    
    William, I think you should stick around a little longer. Give HubPages a chance and I think you will not be disappointed. Welcome to Hubpages.

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       SweetiePieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       In most cases I can see why moderators do unpublish hubs for a short bit of time because of duplicate content, or when more than two outgoing links are going to the same domain.  There are many sources on the net teaching people how to spam Hubpages with promotional hubs, so sometimes if a hub has duplicate content or links as mentioned above it will be unpublished for awhile.  However, on the bright side I think your edit is wonderful and now people can see what a great resource it is you are offering, so it was for the best when you look at it this way.  Sometimes it takes a week or so away from a certain event to realize that it was actually in our best interest.

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       Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Now Mr (or Ms?) Smart, we should have very different definitions of censorship. I don't see any of it in your whole story...

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          Lissieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I just checked to see if America uses the term differently than I use it, it appears not. From the free dictionary Censor
          1.  A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.
          2. An official, as in the armed forces, who examines personal mail and official dispatches to remove information considered secret or a risk to security.
          3. One that condemns or censures.
          4. One of two officials in ancient Rome responsible for taking the public census and supervising public behavior and morals.
          5. Psychology The agent in the unconscious that is responsible for censorship.
          
          Smarticus it was explained multiple times on the original thread: you can't have more than 1 link to any self-serving domain - full top.  It doesn't matter what the status of the resource is.  You can link to multiple times within hubpages and to authority sites such as wikipedia, CNN (LOL) and anything else which is the site of a large organization which clearly don't control (think banks, etc)
          
          Getting flagged for duplicate content is neither an act of censorship (with the implication of judgement as defined above) or comment on copyright ownership - as others have thought too: it is in fact just that duplicate content: content found elsewhere on the net: if you are confused where - put a sentence or 2 into Google - you will find the duplicate content!
          
          I had one of my better hubs flagged for duplicate content 6 months after publication: I only noticed because the hubscore plumneted from high 90's to 70's.  When I checked I someone had stolen 1/2 the content and submitted it to a number of article directories. I emailed Maddie and she over-wrote the flag :the score went back to normal.  At no time did my traffic or ranking in google change: because my content was first on an authorative site (hubpages) - but I still have the duplicate content warning on it LOL
          
          Actually I was wrong Hubpages does censor content; you can't publish "adult" themes, hubs inciting hate and violence, bomb making tips and a few other things.  That is censorship - to be fair to hubpages they are only implementing Adsense's policies: so Adsense applies an American culture of sensitivities across large swathes of the internet.  That is a far more interesting discuss to have because it means that for profit corporation controls the content across large amounts of the internet: and most people don't even seem to mind!

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16. 61

    Smarticusposted 16 years ago

    I completely agree that the rewrite was a good thing. I was only upset that the overly promotional flag delayed publication when the Hub was well below the threshold to warrant that.
    
    Again, given the amount of work a relatively few dedicated people have to do, Maddie and the crew here do a great job.

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17. 62

    Lisa HWposted 16 years ago

    I don't have a problem with large, for-profit, corporations "censoring" material that - when all is said and done - has no redeeming value. 
    
    There's a difference between, for example, material that expresses negative opinions and material that incites hatred and violence.  Corporations, I think, have a right to set a standard for themselves and their own reputations.  They are not the government.  If they were that would be a different situation.
    
    On my hubs I have gotten (I believe) three comments that are "crude".  I didn't approve them because a) I don't want crudeness on my otherwise non-crude hubs, and b) I didn't want HubPages policies violated on my hubs.  I'd be happy to post negative comments about my hubs, but I don't want "crude".  One person "re-commented" and said something like "everyone's comments should be included".  I "re-commented" and said that, besides HubPages policies, my family or even potential freelance clients may view some "writing sample"; and I didn't want vulgar stuff showing up.
    
    I think large, for-profit, companies have the same right to that kind of discretion that I have.  I don't see it as "censorship" when any private endeavor exercises such discretion/standards.  Aside from their own reputation/standards, they have to worry about legal liability.  Also, the larger the corporation, sometimes the larger the sense of a certain amount of social responsibility (although I don't fool myself into thinking that's anywhere near as important as not losing advertisers). 
    
    I don't see any difference between a for-profit company electing to ban violent, hate-inciting, or "adult" material and, say, any company/person setting up a site about daiseys and saying, "We're not going to allow anything but material about daisies on this site."  That's not "censorship" - it's defining what a site is going to be about and saying no material that doesn't fit the site will be posted.

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