substandard Hub

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  1. arthurchappell profile image47
    arthurchappellposted 12 years ago

    Rather distressing to find a Hub being flagged back at me as 'substandard'. especially as some readers have given it very positive feedback - worse, the list of possible reasons for it being a 'violation' (very strong accusational phrasing) is very unspecific, especially as the Hub has been pulled by a human reader rather than a web robot - surely telling me precisely what the problem appears to be would be best. The Hub is part of an onrolling daily diary, to which previousentries have been very well recieved bythe lovely Hub community - it's an ambitious attemptto chronicle an entire year in the life of a Hub author - the first such page to attract this kind of controversy but the vague cryptic nature of the implied offense worries me. Given the pages spells out my life it suggests my life is as substandard as my writing  - i have rewritten some elements of the Hub though uncertain if the whims of its detractors will be satisfied - the threat to take down an entire Hubsite for someone trying their best to not rock the boat is very depressing to see. Someone with 270 pages should not be left worryingthat they might open the internet to findtheir emtire output censored to death because someone disagreed with a few lines in a particular Hb (unless there is evidence of intentional offence) I find the whole approach to flagging hubs in this way rather Kafkaesque

    1. James A Watkins profile image85
      James A Watkinsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hey! I was surprised to be hit with one of these today too—for the first time ever. I had 200 comments on it since last week. I see nothing wrong with it. All I can think of, after reading the new rules, is that it is personal (very unlike me).  But people were reading it and all said they liked it. Maybe this is part of that Google problem they are having.

      1. DIYweddingplanner profile image79
        DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Hi James, you are dead on it.  I had a hub unpublished for too much personal content that was also well-received and yes, it is part of the crackdown. It's sad to see some of my favorite hubs from people I follow becoming a casualty of all this...kinda makes it look like creativity and putting the human factor in writing something to be penalized instead of applauded.  I get where the staff of HP is going with this, but still depressing to see from-the-heart hubs disappearing right and left nevertheless.

      2. CASE1WORKER profile image64
        CASE1WORKERposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        james, I assume that was your birthday hub- which was quite lovely. Perhaps you are right about the personal issue and we will all receive a "tap on the shoulder".j

    2. relache profile image71
      relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You've got a LOT of Hubs that are clearly "purely personal content" which qualifies them as Low-Quality and could get them unpublished.  Remember, HubPages is NOT a blog site.  That sort of content would be better moved to a site that caters to that sort of writing.

      Here's a good explanation of "What's a Hub?"

      1. arthurchappell profile image47
        arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks Relache - as you can see from people's replies here - and the high ratings many of my 'low-quality' hubs have received the Hub with some human expression is just as popular as the dry objective semi-academic style essays you seem to prefer - pulling Hubs down that are actually enjoyed by your readers seems to be counter-productive to everything Hub-pages stands for - if that is the direction Hubs are going, my own Hub presence may well be coming o an end - you're threatening hubs that have been up for months in my case and longer for other Hubbers as virtually no hub is safe from arbitrary execution by such criteria - I am now giving serious thought to withdrawing from the Hubsite entirely - depersonalized hubs are no different than the dry academic work on Wikipedia and similar sites and less reliable - many pages present very one sided theological views and a lot I see are thinly disguised adverts - it seems crazy to tear down Hubs that are getting awarded up points by the readership as is happening now - take the creative personal pages out of the Hubs and you will be left with a soul-less dusty tome that fewer will appreciate - the policy is paramount to censorship of individual expression - A hubsite  without art wiil be a hubsite without Arthur too - I may well be unpublishing myself soon in direct protest at such policies as you present and seem to be supporting here.

        1. Marisa Wright profile image89
          Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I don't agree at all.  For instance, I write about dancing and I do it from my personal viewpoint.  Many Hubbers write about their hobbies and interests in a personal, engaging way.  It's totally different from an academic or Wikipedia style.

          However, the fact is that HubPages is not a blogging site.  It's not intended as a place to write your daily diary.  Yes, given the community on HubPages such Hubs are likely to be "well received", but only by the tiny HubPages community.  A "successful" Hub will get thousands of views - does that put it in perspective?

          HubPages is a business. They're supplying us with a free place to write - it's only reasonable we have to follow a few rules.

          There are places designed for your needs - and  HubPages isn't under any obligation to duplicate their offering.

  2. Cagsil profile image73
    Cagsilposted 12 years ago

    Hey Arthur, the best approach is to get in touch with a moderator, so you can find out exactly what is wrong with the hub.

    Email Staff is the best way to go. smile

    1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
      prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      and for a starter check this out

      1. arthurchappell profile image47
        arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Cheers Prettydarkhorse - that's just the same sweeping list of generalizations Hubs send out to those flagged as substandard and virtually any hub online can qualify for such umbrella labels, - just looked at your own hubs and saw how many pages I could flag for similar reasons if I so chose - i'm not that malcious - there is room for such Hubs to me - Hubs I dislike, - recipes - that look as if they came from any old cook book,pro-religious Hubs that simply quote vast tracts of a section of Bible Scripture with little personal content, Hubs dominated by a massive photo but minimalist text -etc - should they be shut down? No, the readers who want this stuff will find it through their searches and as the page scores drop the pages will vanish into obscurity - still there but drowned out by the more popular work - the readers then get to decide if something is personalized or academic - if it's not spam, or inflammatory leave it be - dismissing a page as 'just a blog' is rude like saying a poem is just 'doggerel' because you personally don't like it. As I said before - no Hub is safe from this policy - yours, mine or anyone's.

  3. arthurchappell profile image47
    arthurchappellposted 12 years ago

    Cheers folks - sad to see this happening to others too - The only category listed that could really apply to mine is too much personal content but it is an ongoing memoir of what a Hub Writer does in life with every day from December 31st covered - it enables readers to see the experiences that shape Hubs - the other entries are no more or less personal than this one flagged item - generally as a reader I likethe Hubs to have a personal touch or it's just a Wikipedia essay There is a lot of Hub story writing, poetry and people asking about memoir writing so seeing memoirs on the Hubs appeals to me - if creativity continues to be supressed they won't need to ban my Hubs as i'll shut them down in protest at such policies. The Hubs have a soul just now - let's keep it that way

    1. profile image0
      writeronlineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Arthur,

      Your line above,   ".....generally as a reader I like the Hubs to have a personal touch or it's just a Wikipedia essay. There is a lot of Hub story writing, poetry....."    perfectly summarises an element that to me, is fundamental - to work that appeals to humans. Sharing something of yourself, whether overtly, like your diary, or implicitly, through the style and tone of your writing, no matter what the topic, makes for the kind of thing that people like to read. In fact, will SEEK OUT to read.

      Unless we're all prepared to let the robots take over, the real challenge for google etc is to develop search capabilities that can separate good work from dross, based not on what robots 'think', but on what 'people feel'. Impossible? I hope not, I think it just demands a shift in focus.

      On HP's content rules, I'm way too new here to comment, but that hasn't stopped me from writing a Hub in response to a forum thread, where other Hubbers propose quarantining 'soft' topics like poetry (diaries..?) etc.. away from more 'commercial' ones, and 'inappropriately long or short' contributions. A suggestion that I don't think would ring your chimes either...

      If you're interested, it's called "What is a Hub Hopper, and Why are They Killing your Work".  I've linked it to the forum thread as well.

      Keep the faith.

      1. DIYweddingplanner profile image79
        DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Can I have an "Amen!" from the choir!  Thank you for saying exactly what was in my mind.

  4. MyWebs profile image82
    MyWebsposted 12 years ago

    If a mod is going to pull your hub and email you then they should also take the time to give an explicit reason as to what the problem is "The First Time".

    These vague in general form emails or listing multiple reasons only wastes everyones times. Do they really want to deal with each person 2, 3 or more times via email when it could have be handled better the first time around?

    It makes no sense to add to your work load when your over worked and understaffed

    1. DIYweddingplanner profile image79
      DIYweddingplannerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.  Instead of the form letter telling you it's substandard, wouldn't it be easier to have a checklist the staff could run down and check whatever rule(s) you violated?  It would save alot of back and forth e-mails.

  5. arthurchappell profile image47
    arthurchappellposted 12 years ago

    Everyone is making such valid points here - hope the mods and admins pay attention - I dislike the fact that once a Hub is re-edited and applied for publication the writer is left waiting for (up to) 72 hours before a verdict on whether it is accepted or not - it's very stressful - feel like i'm on death row here. New hubs by new authors are screened much more quickly than this so the time limit seems to be an intentional punishment for getting flagged for reasons the Hubber isn't given in the first place

  6. CMHypno profile image85
    CMHypnoposted 12 years ago

    Shows how ignorant I am, as I thought that these more personal hubs were an integral part of HubPages, and I have always been a bit envious that I can't write them.

    Arthur why don't you start a blogger blog for your experiences, and let us all know the url so we can regularly drop in for a cup of tea?  James, I am somewhat blown away that anyone, be it hubber or staff, could flag a hub of yours!

  7. profile image0
    The Quiz Masterposted 12 years ago

    I got a flag from HP saying I was over promoting myself and I had to agree with them. I quickly changed the hub.
    I agree with HP that hubs should not be blog style, there are plenty of places for that sort of drivel.
    Hubs should be kept informative and educational and that's the appeal, I don't understand why you would find this a problem.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image89
      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't agree that blogging is "drivel", it's just a different kind of writing.

      Reflecting on my answer, I can think of several regular Hubbers who have published "personal" Hubs and not been flagged for it.  Where Hubbers have a substantial portfolio of rich, informative Hubs, one or two biographical Hubs add value in that context. 

      I just checked out some of Arthur's daily diary and they are just that, a diary. That's clearly not adding value to anything.

  8. DaNoblest profile image60
    DaNoblestposted 12 years ago

    I feel that I am writing articles when I create a hub. Content that I would be comfortable sending to a magazine or other such publication. To me this is where I try to post my more educational,  helpful and entertaining, content with much of it is based on my personal experiences.

    Most of the posts on my blog are purely personal because I feel that writing there is more of a journal where people who care to can find out more about me and what I do. My blog is where I will occasionally put my 2-3 paragraph writings and rantings of daily life.

    While I do agree more than a "cookie cutter response" after being flagged would really be helpful, I try to take into account the large volume of flags HP staff probably have to sort through in a day and the time it would take to write a custom response to each.

    I believe Marisa has a pretty balanced view on this subject.

    1. arthurchappell profile image47
      arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      They have now flagged all of them - expecting me to revise 270 pages - I expect that's a backlash on me for daring to protest like this. I'll be withdrawing all my hubs rather than revising them - it'll take a while as I don't have some saved to my hard drive as yet - as I see it me and hub pages are finished with one another - no way i'm being bullied like this  It's pathetic

      1. Maddie Ruud profile image74
        Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I'm sorry you feel bullied.  It's certainly not personal.  You have a large proportion of Hubs that are simply journal-type and primarily personal content.  It is impractical for us to sort through all 270 of your Hubs when there are thousands of other Hubs to moderate, so all of your Hubs were taken down in a batch.  If you resubmit those that comply with our rules, they will be republished by a moderator.

        1. arthurchappell profile image47
          arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          No Maddy - I am not going to do that - my writing can find find a better home elsewhere - setting Hubs on Hubpages is like trying to qualify for the X Factor - i'd rather leave with some dignity and self-respect intact than subject my work to such a regime

          1. Maddie Ruud profile image74
            Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I'm sorry you feel that way.  When you are done saving all of your work, you can find instructions to close your account here.

      2. Marisa Wright profile image89
        Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Arthur, don't feel bullied, it's just the way HubPages works.  If you have a large percentage of substandard Hubs, they flag the whole lot until they get a chance to study them in more detail.  Your non-diary Hubs are probably just fine.

        You've published a LOT of Hubs which are just blog posts, and therefore substandard.  I have read a few of them - basically they are diary entries, and (as Len says) would be just perfect for somewhere like

  9. Uninvited Writer profile image79
    Uninvited Writerposted 12 years ago

    Please stop playing the martyr, no one is out to get you.

  10. IzzyM profile image87
    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    What's annoying me now is not going to look at Arthur's hubs when he first complained.
    So now I can't say whether they were of a decent length or not. There are hubs that are quite long and written 'blog style' that are worth a read, but I find hubs of less than 200 words a PITA to be honest. People who put up short hubs expecting the reader to click to another page to read more are taking the piss, especially for folk like me on a slow or erratic connection.

    1. arthurchappell profile image47
      arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Izzy, none of my Hubs were that short - it's having personal non-academic criteria and writing about having been in a cult rather than offering my recipe for apple pie that got my writings aborted here after 2 months of modest and accellerating success.

    2. relache profile image71
      relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Izzy, I saw some of them and while of decent length, they clearly were purely personal content.  These weren't about being in a cult, just a laundry list of a person's day.

      Here's an example, …

      1. IzzyM profile image87
        IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I see.

        You know when I was 16, I used to write a report for the local Young Farmer's Club (don't ask!)for submission to the local newspaper, and I wrote something similar.

        Difference was, I was 16, still at school, carefully following my predecessor's wording, and it had a limited following.

        Oh and we didn't bold everything either.

        Sorry Arthur. No really, I am not criticising, but it isn't HP material.

  11. relache profile image71
    relacheposted 12 years ago

    Arthur, I'm sorry you decided to interpret my advice as a threat.  I don't make any of the rules here, I'm just a site user like you.  However, I've been here for over four years now and what I said to you was just my viewpoint as someone who both reads and writes a lot of content on this site.  I've seen a lot of Hubs and read a lot of comments from people who got moderated and admin's replies to them, so I think I have a pretty decent feel for how the moderators look at Hubs.

    And from what Maddie just said in her reply to you, it seems my take on the situation was pretty accurate.

  12. Len Cannon profile image89
    Len Cannonposted 12 years ago

    If you want to write a diary, perhaps you should visit

  13. DaNoblest profile image60
    DaNoblestposted 12 years ago

    Look at it like this. If your content is as great as you say it is (I haven't seen it so I don't know) you should have no problem starting a blog and gaining followers. As a plus you also get 100% of your clicks and add revenue paid directly to you.

    All you need to do now is copy and paste. With 270 posts you should have a decent size blog for people to check out and the best part is you can decide what is acceptable or not to post there.

    I see this as a very freeing experience for you. No doubt you must be a hard worker so a little extra work pasting to a blog is all you have to do now to be your own boss and reap the rewards. Good luck =]

  14. sergs_pogi profile image57
    sergs_pogiposted 12 years ago

    Oh, I don't get it. When I look at your profile, you don't have any hub published but have several followers.

    1. arthurchappell profile image47
      arthurchappellposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Sergs+ not my choice sadly, the current Hubs-leaders decided my pages are too personal and creative so they shut 270 pages down expecting me to revise them and resubmitthem for consideration 1 by 1 like contestants in a game show - I have decided instead to take my work elsewhere - other people will find their Hubs increasingly vulnerable to similar needless revisions until Hubpages accept that diaries, blogs and other creative ways of expressing oneself should have a place in Hubpages - one day the regime may come to its senses and my self imposed exile may end but as it stands I have no desire to be here longer than it takes me to save and copy my pages away.  I'm not posting to this page again after this message so I would just like to thank my readers, followers and fans for feedback, kudos, etc and everything we had before the dream turned sour and things got spoilt for no adequate reason - Hubpages are censoring work through snobbery disguised as 'quality control' so pages that have been here for months and years are finding themselves flagged for revisions throughout the site - it subjects any writer's work to editorial revision demands that I cannot freely subject myself to - On many principles and moral grounds I have no choice but to sever my connections to this site - goodbye to the lovely people left behind in the crumbling ruins hubages once was

      1. Marisa Wright profile image89
        Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry Arthur, it ain't gonna happen.  HubPages is a business.  They have a particular business model which does not include blogs and diaries for good reason - there's plenty of other sites doing that already.  Why waste time competing?

        it would be plain silly of HubPages to dilute their model by being all things to all people.

      2. sergs_pogi profile image57
        sergs_pogiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the reply. Sorry to have heard this but I don't know what to say. I'm sure I'm gonna stick to HubPages for good.

  15. Will Apse profile image87
    Will Apseposted 12 years ago

    I read some of your stuff, Arthur (still cached by Google) and your descriptions of being at a Job Center in the UK filled me with sympathy and dread- one day it could be me.

    I need Hubpages to work because it gives me a sizable part of my income. Without it, I would be homeless and sinking fast. I think it is sad you have been pulled but Hubpages needs to get more professional and I reckon your stuff would be better on a blog- plenty are free.

    Best wishes, if you ever read this.

  16. blackjava profile image61
    blackjavaposted 12 years ago

    Is there any place that I can contact to tell me specifically why a hub is substandard. I have tried the contact in the message and get no response. How are we to know what substandard is if we aren't told specifically. I see others saying hubs can't be personal. I find that odd because anything posted on a hub is of a personal nature. Despite what someone might say.

    Also, are their self proclaimed hub police that are simply flagging hubs as substandard just to be ignorant. I published a hub and with in ten minutes it is flagged. I can't believe that the moderators of hub pages are doing it that fast. With all the new hubs that would be virtually impossible.

    1. Maddie Ruud profile image74
      Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi blackjava,

      Your Hubs were correctly moderated for being duplicate.  I apologize that nobody has responded to your email yet... things get a little backed up on weekends.

    2. Rising Caren profile image80
      Rising Carenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Actually new hubs go into the hub hopper where regular Hubpages users can flag hubs. Then the moderators online can take a look and take them down.

      So I imagine it's not that uncommon for a new hub to be flagged and taken down within 10-20 minutes.

  17. blackjava profile image61
    blackjavaposted 12 years ago

    I don't have a problem with a hub being flagged as duplicate. I imagine there are a ton of hubs that have content that may show up else where. The problem I have now is that what ever I publish is immediately flagged as substandard. No explanation given.
    I have tried the contact numerous times to get a specific reason. I have no idea what a good hub is. Based on all the hubs that I have hopped, very few are any different than mine.
    I try to have good content with maybe a video and graphic. The only links I have are the amazon modules which don't count as outbound links.

    So how is one supposed to know what to do. Reading other hubs is no help. It's hard to understand the point of hubs any more.

    1. WryLilt profile image89
      WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'd recommend against using the hubs in the hub-hopper as a guide. Those are usually the low hub-score, spam and dupe hubs.

      Have a look at hubs by people like Relache, Mark Knowles, Thisisoli, Edweirdo and Misha for examples of good hubs.

    2. relache profile image71
      relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Duplicate content is substandard.  You need to be writing original content, not stealing material or reusing something that you published online somewhere else.

  18. Trish_M profile image78
    Trish_Mposted 12 years ago

    Hi smile

    I find the 'personal content' rule a bit confusing.

    Many, many of the hubs on here ~ very popular hubs ~ are written from a personal viewpoint. Yes, some are so short and trivial as to be unsuitable, but most are interesting to read and give us an alternative look at the world.

    While these may or may not be acceptable, there are other hubs, which are simply 'borrowed' photos ~ yet they don't seem to break any rules.

    There are also hubs with lots of English errors, which probably make the site look as if it has low expectations, but these are considered to be ok.

    And there are the hubs which are basically just adverts. Many of the writers of such ads were getting lots of praise and high hub scores.

    If such a variety of work is acceptable, why condemn hubs which may be 'personal', but which are obviously rated highly?

    How personal is too personal?
    Should the words 'I' and 'me' be omitted altogether?
    Can we write about things that happened to us?
    Where is the line drawn?

    1. AEvans profile image76
      AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That to is a very good question. smile

  19. AEvans profile image76
    AEvansposted 12 years ago

    I too had hubs flagged. I know that won't aide in how you feel, but I am working on the ones that were flagged, correcting the problem and will submit back to HP, for approval. Hang in there and all of us will get through it together with more knowledge so then we can share with others what we have learned. It is still a great site and all of us can weather the storm. smile


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