No. We are just an infestation.
In due course the guy with the bottle of Clorox will come along…
I'm sure WE will provide the clorox that will reduce our numbers.
We kinda resemble cockroachs in that we're damned hard to completely eliminate.
We are a virus
The Earth, our beloved host ...
will one day reject us
With reports like this one on our recent biodiversity crisis, (caused by humans over consuming) this question really makes you wonder. The answer is a toughy Qwark. Off the top of my head, I really couldn't come up with something.
"Man" adds their own values, or subtracts it - depends on the individual
Of what value are we to the planet earth? Thats the question.
Any at all?
actually, I can't think of any examples of how humans add value to the earth (except turning into soil nutrients when die).
Humans subtract value from the earth, to add value to themselves eg extract & use resources like oil, water, minerals etc leaving behind pollution etc
As a natural creature and a natural product of the natural process of evolution we are of exactly the same value of any other species. That is if you are going to be scientific about our nature and origin. We are no less natural to the world than a fluke, a hydra, a slime mold or a blue whale. What we do is what we evolved to do and so it is our species purpose just as the lions purpose is to eat the zebra. We have wedged our tainted beliefs about humans into our nature. We pollute for exactly the same reason the Arctic Tern migrates. It is the nature we evolved.
Ok, I agree.
Now can ya pls answer my question: "What is the "value" of man to this planet?"
I pay about $2 per pound for chicken, pork or beef so I would say $2 per pound.
I get it, ya have no credible response. TY
My answer is if you believe humans add no value to the earth then take the bull by the horns and subtract the problem personally. No problem is solved by demanding an agreement with you how about you set the example of adding to the earth the organic components of you.
That comment was not well thought out.
The "elements" of our physical body don't add anything to the earth!
How could you possibly come up with that argument?
Mans value lies in the sum of his contribution to the planet. If we continue to polute and destroy our habitats, then we are nothing but pest. If we embrace environmental consciousness and protect the earth, then we would have been it's greatest resource.
Man can only be evaluated through the assessment by which a society is maintained. In that respect, how a man is valued in Zimbabwe Africa may not be how he would be evaluated by American standard. If the things we value in life differ than the African it changes the African perspection of us.
Sense values can differentiate from culture to culture, the value of man depends on the perceptional reality of a particular culture.
The value and the role of man also changes with religious belieft as it change with the culture. Now, we see even within the same culture, when one adds the faculty of religion, the value of man also deviates.
What is the "value" of man to this planet? Unrealized is what the value is of man to this planet. Until it becomes realized by more and more people, then things will only get worse instead of better.
I probably should have offered the connotation of the word "value" as I meant for it to be used in my question. Here it is:
"Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit:"
Let's presume the earth is the "possessor."
Of what value could we humans be to a planet that will exist with or without us?
How can more of us make our "value" realized?
I agree, tho, that the advent of more of the human species will make things much worse for ALL life on the earth.
Thanks for definition. Don't you think mankind defines and creates the 'value'
Without us, the planet just "is" without a right or wrong, or particular value.
This is reflective and would require a 'judge' to make a 'judgement'
Not at all.
Your comment really has nothing to do with my forum question.
Why is it that Ya'll are having such a hard time understanding it? I'm simply asking if you think we are of any value to the planet.
Have you studied the Gaia Hypothesis?
If it were "factual" and not a hypothesis, and if the earth could communicate with us, what do you think "its" answer might be?
I think asking man about the value of man is like.... asking your boyfriend if you look fat in this dress. Ask an animal and youll probably get better answers. Ask the internet and youll get a bunch of people who dont know what theyre talking about.
Hey Qwark, by all accounts, the planet gives humans a place to live, breath and exist, and with that comes a responsibility of man to understand and respect that, by protecting it from destruction or devastation.
It's sad that not more people understand it.
There is no way that we paltry human creatures can devestate or destroy this planet. It has experienced far greater catastrophes over the 4 billion yrs of its existence than we can create.
Yes it does provide for us and nurture us and we should be respectful and appreciative of that fact.
What is OUR value to "it?" I can see none.
I'd like to think we have value as caretakers Qwark. Instead of having dominion - and taking it literally, how about we start viewing our world as something to cherish, nurture and care for.
We use it, we abuse it and there's a lot less care taking of it than there is of the taking. It's wrong, we're slowly killing it, we're killing ourselves. And maybe that's no bad thing.
If were going by a evolution stand point we are of no value to the earth as the possessor since the earth is older than mankind. To first realize our merit or value we must all come to a common conclusion of what that value is or it turns into a huge confrontation of who's right and who's wrong.
This topic makes me think of the lines of that song,
"How many roads must a man walk down......."
The Answer is Blowing In The Wind - Bob Dylan
"...we are of no value to the earth as the possessor..."
That didn't answer my question. What we should do has nothing to do with what our value is to the planet. It will heal itself, as it has done for billions of yrs and continue on until the sun takes us out.
What is our VALUE to it?
I propose that we humans exist as a natural result of the laws of physics and chemistry.
WE are not "miracles," WE are just a "happening."
There is no value atributed to our existence but to ourselves.
WE appeared for a nano second and vanished.
The universe will not notice our coming and going.
"...no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should." Desiderata (things to be desired)
Man is the ultimate paradox. No other species could have done what man has with natural resources. And of course, no other species could have destroyed the planet like man has. So it's a wash for me.
Man is incapable of destroying the planet.
This, of course, is true: " No other species could have done what man has with natural resources."
So I guess you don't believe in global warming, or deforestation, or extinction of species due to urban development etc.
None of those thing will destroy the planet. Global warming, ice ages, the extinction of species, those things have been happening on planet earth for a long time and many times over before we ever showed up and they will continue to happen long after we have taken our leave. Mankind might destroy itself, but the planet will go on, at least for a few more billion years until our sun dies anyway.
Makes sense... however, I hold anything that makes us extinct to be destroying the planet.
What has this to do with my original questions?
Try to stay on point...ok? TY
Actually, Qwark, man is capable of destroying the planet, if he chooses to do so. It would take a huge capability in what - pyrotechnics, explosives, robotics, technology that could get into the core and simple blow it to bits. Let's here you argue that, big boy.
No problem at all.
There is no possibility at all of man being able to destroy this planet...NONE!
The earth is about 4 billion yrs old. it has survived catastrophes far greater than anything man could conceive of and produce.
If you can offer just one (1) plausible method we could use to destroy the planet earth we'd all love to know it.
Go for it.
I don't have the knowledge base on the subject of explosives, but don't you agree there is some bomb that could be placed at the core of the earth that might conceivably shatter it?
I don't believe you, of course we have value and there is no need to explain why. You are so complicated Qwark, I'd love to live inside your head for just one day... you know everything about me is so simple, I find the way your mind works simply fascinating.
it's ok if ya don't believe me. lol
If you read my "hub" profile, you'll understand why I say "it's ok." :-)
Living in my mind, might drive ya crazy! It's always questioning, questioning, questioning and coming up with alota, "interesting" to me, concepts.
Wow! you quoted me! Ty.
You don't believe this?
"None of those thing will destroy the planet. Global warming, ice ages, the extinction of species, those things have been happening on planet earth for a long time and many times over before we ever showed up and they will continue to happen long after we have taken our leave. Mankind might destroy itself, but the planet will go on, at least for a few more billion years at least until our sun dies anyway."
I'm gonna ask another question Disturbia..ok?
Why do you think this:
"...of course we have value and there is no need to explain why."
OMG! We don't need to explain or justify our value. We have value because we are, because we exist in the universe.
And now you are making me explain something which I don't believe needs to be explained. You are the puppet master aren't you. Pulling our strings with questions and statements that challenge our ideas and ideology. Go ahead, confuse my poor little ADHD brain circuitry. You really are terrible... I think I'm in love. LOL
There are many puppet masters out there and Governments protect every conceivable evil known to mankind.
The true leader in the history of mankind has always been the people. Your opinion and everyone's lives and opinions collectively are the only hope and true change on the Globe
Oh yes! Quite right!
But I am "loveable!" :-)
lol anyone who figures that they as humans have no value and add nothing to the universe are welcome to fall on their own sword. They are probably right and pointing fingers only leaves the three finger rule in sharper contrast. Maybe then the rest of us can improve matters.
Pls explain this:
"lol anyone who figures that they as humans have no value and add nothing to the universe are welcome to fall on their own sword." it seems to me to be meaningless.
"Maybe then the rest of us can improve matters."
"Improve matters?" What "matters" are you referring to?
I think what he is saying by "lol anyone who figures that they as humans have no value and add nothing to the universe are welcome to fall on their own sword" is that if you really don't believe that there is any value and meaning to you being on this earth then you are welcome to end your unvalued , meaningless existence on it . I am not telling you to do so LOL, I am just saying that I think that was the meaning of the Quote . As far as I am concerned , The fact that humans are the only known species on this earth to have any kind of conciousness say's a lot , we are on this earth to create , which in the future our creations might actualy have a positive and productive impact on this earth . Might it be from technology allowing us to prevent a Cosmic catastrophy from distroying earth , As you say , humans might not be able to destroy the earth ( which is questionable ) but , with the unlimited amounts of energy in the Universe you can bet that something else can , and maybe we as creators will prevent it . Because we both know the lions and zebras won't lol .
...but that has nothing to do with what I have asked for, which is: "What is the "value" of man to this planet?"
I don't know why all are having so much trouble understanding the question.
Then what is the value of any animal on this planet ?
The real question is What is the Value of man to this planet as viewed by ???
yes, it is in the eye of a beholder - value is a subjective concept. Like the fable in my son's reader - the chicken tossed the jewel aside, because it valued a grain of corn.
The planet has no concept of value - all the answers are from a human perspective.
...and that's all this requires: an answer from a human point of view.
do you go off and write hubs from these intellectual wrestlings?
I do too (all my ex-christian hubs are written after debating on forums first)
Ok, here's the real answer. Our value is determined solely by our own imaginings. We are to be universal indwellers, untouched by affliction, actions, impressions and their results - the pure flow of spiritual consciousness. The definition of affliction in this context is ignorance, egoism, attachment, aversion, and the desire to cling to life. Ignorance is the breeding ground for all the others. Therefore, by losing our illusions, we lose everything and we lose nothing. When one is confirmed in non-possessiveness, the knowledge of why and how of existence is attained. There should be no disturbance from dualities. Because of the magnetic qualities of habitual mental patterns and memory, a relationship of cause and effect clings even though there may be a change of embodiment by class, space and time. The desire to live is eternal and the thought clusters prompting a sense of identity are beginningless. Things assume reality because of the unity maintained within that modification. Even though the external object is the same, there is a difference of cognition in regard to the object because of the difference in mentality (earth being the object in this case). We have no inherent value to the earth except that we are one with the multiverse, currently a bad seed. But as we are consciousness with limitless power, and it is difficult at best to cease mutative association with awareness, the species has created an imbalance of desire over desirelessness.
couldn't of said it better , totally agree, want to be friends ? haha
" We have no inherent value to the earth except that we are one with the multiverse,..."
I applaud your perceptive reply!
That was all you needed to say to answer my question. TY Couture!
True!...but I'm too old for ya...lol
We are loveable tho! :-)
I'm starting to get an image of you in a dusty home library, walls lined with book filled cases, a dim light on a table next to a well worn upholstered chair, tapestry rugs, a cup of tea steaming next to you as you hunch over a worn text, magnifier in hand, researching some ancient work. A light goes off in your head, you grab your fedora and run out the door headed for parts unknown to prove some theory or other. The grey haired Mrs. calls to you as you run for the old Land Rover. "Don't foget your mittens, dear!"
That was descriptive! I loved how you worded it!
You didn't describe me completely. I'm sitting in a dark candle lit room, dipping my feather pen in a small bottle of black ink and laboriously creating my thoughts in elegantly, ornate Rococo style font.
My furniture is Baroque and the room is ornately endowed with the art of the masters.
Small sculptures sit on rosewood tabletops and tapestry which complements the architecture, reliefs and wall paintings adorn the dimly lit walls...etc., etc.. lol
I love it! :-)
Qwark sits, quietly contemplating, winks at Couture and raises both arms to display 2 thumbs up! :-)
You can say that Humans have no value on earth but ask yourself these questions , What value does the earth bring to the universe? What is the value of our solar system in our Universe ? what is the value of our galaxy in the universe ? There is none , all would go on existing if one of these things where missing from the ultimate picture wich is the Universe . so if you think about it it does not matter what value we bring to this earth since , earth brings no value to our solar system , wich brings no value to our galaxy wich brings no value to the universe . Earth is not even a spec on the map of the universe
No more pls....lol
You just don't read with understanding.
You, AGAIN, misread my question. I don't understand why, but I'm thru "hubbing with you. whew!
Haha i guess I didn't , I was just wasting time participating in this debate , it was facinating to see your outlook on things . Have a good day Sir and I look foreword to your next topic of debate haha . And I do agree that we add no value for our existence on this earth but I beleive we aren't really suppose to . have a good day .
Debate? When was there a debate?
Debate involves argument. To win an argument, one must provide proofs.
I'm not seeking proofs, just opinions. But to get a reasoned opinion, one must interpret and understand the question. You haven't done that.
I never debate anyone. I just "chat."
I think when we make the connection with what the planet teaches us about who we are.
maybe pull out Thoreau's Walden.
Realistically? Our existence is ephemeral and valueless to all but ourselves...:-)
Value is subjective.
If there are no humans, who, or how can you determine value?
Surely plants and animals do not ascribe value to anything. To them all things just "is"!
Tongue firmly in cheek with this response....
Value is a human concept.
The has planet has no opinion of us at all. It exists and evolves of it's own volition. What we do is irrelevant to the earth, as it existed before man was here and will exist after we are gone. It is arrogant and egotistical to assume what we do has any influence on the existence of the planet and its ultimate fate.
Why does man have to be valuable to this planet?
No matter how we try to intellectualize this........We are already here.
The earth is not for mankind nor are we here for the earth.
We just are.
There is no predisposition in an equation for an earth/man relationship so value is irrelevant......or in other words our relationship is not symbiotic by design.
Hi qwark, I like this one from "Kansas"
"Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind.
Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy".
Oh how true!
...love those words! :-)
Well, our main accomplishments involve doing absolutely amazing things with the planets resources. The downside is that, in the process, we are depleting the planet of some of these resources... and polluting it. Perhaps one day, though, we'll be able to invent technologies that will allow us to reverse any of the damage we've done, balance the global resources, and even prevent the planet from major, natural catastrophes. Perhaps that will be our value. Of course, us destroying the planet seems more likely as of now... but lets hope that one day we can do a 180.
Man has value, but only to the capacity by which he perpetuates life's longing for itself. You see, individually man has zero value. Only when a man realizes that he is a part of the collective experience will he be of true value. Put that in your 401K.
nature doesnot care whether humans exist or not...earth existed even when humans didn't exist and would keep on existing even if we become extinct...it is mere our quest to form meanings to life that we give too much importance to ourselves...
We think that infestations of disease and pestilence plague us, but maybe humans are really food for diseases and pestilence.
I think you, in the main, have misread the question.
"WHAT IS THE VALUE OF MAN TO THE PLANET?"
My answer is "NONE!" if you don't agree, why?
I agree that we don't have any value.
With all due respect, we are here so why does our value here on Earth matter other then vanity?
When you die what happens? Everything vanishes right? Human's very short stay on good ole planet earth could be interpreted as a foul existence. We can dwell on how worthless we are.
We certainly shouldn't go out and destroy the earth.
..........But, we are here and we are stuck on Earth and Earth is stuck with us. Our sense of value is a moot point.
As we say,
Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the most valuable creature of all.
and the mirror will say,
.....Why it is you human kind.
We will feel our lack while the mirror laughs as we turn our backs to walk away. Our blotted worthiness will be crushed as we will find we have no value.
I don't think I misread. The value of man is that he is food, just as so many things around him are considered food. That's just one little aspect.
Food? For the "PLANET?" Why does the "PLANET" need food?
My question is referring to the "PLANET."
LIFE reqires food.
While we are here all we do is return all that had its creation from the "PLANET" back to the "PLANET. WE are not giving or taking from/to the "PLANET."
Of what value is man to the "PLANET?"
I say: NONE! We are just a happening.
I disagree...we are the reason that this planet is here in the first place!
REally...Boy! You are offering stuff I've never heard before! We are the reason this planet is here?
Pls explain this to me...I'm all "eyes." :
QWark...? Well seeing is believing...so you're off to great start. You never heard of a philosophy that puts man above Mother Earth...What planet you from...QWark?
Nope, never have.
Pls tell me where ya came up with that, why ya think it's so and why it is important to you?
Pretend I'm an "alien" from a faraway planet and explain it to me exquistely in earth language...ty so much! :
You're killing me here...Qwark! Really...you really never heard of such a thing? Well...thats what they have libraries for.
I'd start in the area of "historical beliefs-past down since the beginning of time"...and work your way up to the Fiction section...where you are probably heading your line of thought with much increased conjecture...I would imagine.
If you get this belief from somewhere you should be able to name at least one source. Like on of my professors said, if you can't explain an idea to a 7-year-old, you don't really understand it yourself.
If it comes down to 'primitive people believed it'--that doesn't strike me as really convincing.
C'mon psycheskinner...you know what I'm talking about don't ch'a? trying the ol' make a debatable point thing is as old as the internet too. Please!
I don't really care about what some professor said about a explaining things to a 7 year old...I bet he stayed up all night thinking of that one. Since when are "professors" knowledgeable about things out here in the real world anyway!
Here's a better point that I would like to make:
I'm tired of only one opinion being right on this here Hub Page Forums...and those with other opinions have to agree with it or argue their point to the "nth" degree. GRRR...I'm mad...and i'm not taking it anymore and things could use some shakin' up in here (Hub Pages Forum) anyways.
Folks could be a whole lot more open minded here...for starters!
How about them apples! There's another opinion with out substanitive proof...!
Well golly Steve:
Seems we have a "failure to communicate" here.
In my studies of anthropological history, starting way back to the "beginning of time," historical beliefs have fallen way short of being truth due to an abject level of ignorance way back at the "beginning of time." :
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm existing in the 21st century and knowledge is 'light years" beyond that of our "forefathers" way back "at the beginning of time."
Way back "then," nothing was known of the earth and of "IT" being our parent, or of the laws that Mother Nature" required of all life to survive.
Of course I'm still a young man in geologic time. I'm only going on 70 so I guess I just don't have a good reason to fall back on when I say I've never heard of, in contemporary language and understanding, "...a philosophy that puts man above Mother Earth.."
Nope can't say I ever have!
I do love fiction and much of what you read of the history of life on this earth, may be just that fiction, 'cause folks like you seem to corrupt human thought with comments like "...a philosophy that puts man above Mother Earth.."
Seems to me we are still abjectly ignorant and infantile.
Now pls answer my question and tell me what all this means to you.
Can ya do that?
Point-Counter point: I see that you put alot of thought into your response. However...that being said. I rely on a belief structure that states that all things were given freely and abundantly for us to use on the planet...and that places "man" in a fairly tall order of importance in relationship to the planet. And I bet that you know exactly what belief structure it is to which I refer...don't ch'a?
Steve: Yep I sure do!
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I know what import to place on your comments.
Have a great day! :
So...your mind was already pre-set in advance to anything I was going to say...and you were just baiting me to show that you have done plenty of research, blah, blah, and poor little me for not agreeing with your well versed and magnificiently obtained wisdom? Why play your silly...and very "old"...I might add...game?
Let me ask you a question...By you saying things like "I know what import to place on your comments"...is that like a tag-borq mind synche to all your same minded friends...that you have proven...yet again that you have superior intellect to us poor ol' mindless belivers...hhhmmm?
Yeh, sumthin' like that!
You are perceptive today!
Have a great day! :
I know...I've had way too many sugar cookies...I think is why! Have a good one !
hahaha..ok Steve, too danged much sugar.
I don't agree with ya at all,but yer a good sport! :
Qwark: Well, we finally got sum'thing in common...after all. I don't agree with ya' at all...either...!
I was attempting a bad joke gone worse. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek. I think the planet probably doesn't value us. I think it's the reverse. We value the planet. In which case, qwark, you may now eat your cake.
I was hoping for a new concept explained in depth with all kinds of scientific backing...I'm so disappointed.. :
Forget the cake! I'm eating a giant Burger kIng chicken sandwich made like a "whopper" mmm mmm good! :
Cake is whatever you make it to be. A burger sounds good to me!
The science of the planet and human beings isn't really science as far as I can tell. It's more like a comedy. I think "Big Bang Theory" kind of goes there.
Side note: one friend calls me "DAmmit DAn!" for a lot of reasons....
This question completely ignores what it means to have value.
A good or service (in this case "man") has value if it is desired by someone else (another cognizant being).
Thus, a rock might not have value to the first 500 people that come across it, but the next person might look at the rock and say "hey, that's gold!".
Thus, the question in the OP "What is the 'value' of man to this planet?" is an inaccurate question. Something can't be valued by an inanimate object (the Earth).
I'm afraid that i'll have to deny the premise!
Earth has a tendency to cleanse itself. It's kind of like purging, or regurgitating, what is fouling the system. And so humankind (men and women) will be shown the door to oblivion. That's what 2012 is supposed to be about.
Our value to this planet is the maximum so far because we human beings are solely responsible for its betterment. It's the best place in the entire universe to live and we the human beings have turned this planet earth to heaven simply by making it beautiful. So our value is huge to this planet earth which only could be measured by people like Albert Einstein.
Nothing exists on, or of this planet which is not the Logos. We, and everything else on the planet, are the end result of the projection forward of the energies that comprise this planet - energy stepped down in frequency until a material form could be produced.. Mankind is a facet, if you wish, of the projection from that which is the Logos and, as such, fits into the overall patterning of the proliferation of this Logos and its withdrawal. Mankind, as well as all other projections from this Planetary Logos have been here for a much longer period of time than science will admit. If we did not have any value, we would not be allowed to remain here.
We are of tremendous value in so far as - the Logos cannot experience matter - it is pure energy. Humans, as well as all other material manifestations are the avenue for the Logos to experience. This experience essences back through all realms to the Logos and is then projected forward again through ongoing further projections of humanity. When a particular species has fulfilled its function - it becomes extinct - it has no further value as that particular projection of form. It will be reconfigured and projected forward as a different species. This is how evolution takes place. This is why we have vast ages cycling, reaching an epitome and then disappearing. Because that was as much as could be absorbed by that particular civilization before corruption set in. It had fulfilled its particular function.
Nothing is ever lost. All that knowledge is then projected forward into the next cycle to allow humankind to advance through another cycle. Each cycle has its own requirement for learning. If this were not the case - we would all still be living in caves. This particular cycle is focussed on technology. Our day to day living is not important in the universal sense - the essencing back, because it rather like a distilled essence of all experience - is tremendously important for the continuation of the human species. Looking at it from a human point of view, one would not think we were all on a journey to self-realization; but that is the ultimate goal fir humanity.
Whether you wish to advance slowly or rapidly is entirely up to you.
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