I just read a comment on another thread that implied the poster believed in the possibility of the human species existing outside of our solar system.
If we were visited by aliens that looked exactly like us; with proof positive that we did not share a common ancestor; would you consider that to imply that we were created by God, or evidence for evolution.
I tend to lean toward God. I mean, what are the odds of the exact same species evolving in the exact same way, separately, on two different worlds.
With a sample size of two, calculating the odds would be impossible, so I'd suspend judgement until I had a larger sample.
Great question, though.
So, are you a mathematician? I only ask, because I'd be curious of the difference in the odds of this happening and the odds calculated for the probability of the existence of a god.
I know you said you couldn't calculate the odds, but I don't understand why it couldn't be done.
I'm not a mathematician, but I am an amateur philosopher/logician, of a skeptical bent, who would be reluctant to posit ANY odds with such a small sample size. There are many other variables to consider, of course. When you say "God," do you mean in the Judeo-Christian sense, or just god in the sense of a Creator Deity? Maybe if we has 10,000 worlds with 10,000 humanoid species, out of, say, a few million explored, I'd offer at least an educated opinion, but right now I can't. Do these humanoids have religious beliefs, and, if they do, are they similar to our own? All of those questions would need to be answered.
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I would lean towards evolution. There is alot of factors that led up to the humans we see today, (following evolution theory). The size and type of our sun, distance of earth from the sun, materials that make up our planet. So many variables. Even if we shared a common gene ancestor, there is still the possiblility that both evolved from something that originated from another place and was dropped here and there by...say... a meteor or comet.
There is another planet, about 20 light years from us, that has simular characteristics as earth. About same distance from it's sun, about same size and density as earth, and appears to have a similar features and an atmosphere. If we could figure out how to travel at light speed or faster, we might one day be able to confirm or debunk some of our theories. Maybe our great,great grandkids will figure it out.
Really? I can’t quite see that; so I find it interesting that it would seem the logical answer to others. Maybe I don’t quite get evolution. I see it as an infinite number of tiny changes that led to the end result of us. One change, not at the same time; one environmental shift… we wouldn’t be who and what we are. Or, we might not even exist in any form.
The likelihood of the end result being the same, even on planets within the same galaxy, is mind boggling for me.
And, I envy whatever generation gets the chance to make first contact; however it turns out.
Who do you think the "angels" are that men have entertained unaware?.
If a man is "unaware" they are angles, these angels must look identical to humans
I would consider it evidence that aliens likely seeded Earth with life. Star Trek is a great example of this idea. There are numerous humanoid species that all evolved on different planets in the Star Trek Galaxy and yet they can interbreed in many cases. In one episode of The Next Generation they discover that a proto-humanoid species seeded life on the planets similar to their own hoping they would evolve into humanoid species. Now technically if you wanted you could define these original aliens as gods.
I would NEVER assume the supernatural or assume something as evidence of the supernatural. That's an ancient mistake, lightning isn't caused by Zeus and illness isn't caused by evil spirits, we have no need of supernatural explanations since they explain NOTHING.
Yeh, I've watched enough Star Trek and Stargate that this would be my first guess too. But, a simple DNA test would tell if we were related, even remotely.
If it was completely different evolutions; I don't know. I'd consider that very odd and in need of an explanation. Rookery Spooner is right. There are an infinite number of ways evolution could have gone. Humanoid is not necessarily the end result.
Sure it'd be worthy of an explanation and it definitely be odd to find humans living on another planet who were genetically dissimilar to us. However it'd be pretty unlikely that they would have similar bone structure and look like us but be unlike us genetically. It's not impossible though, given the number of planets out there. If the Drake equation is taken as accurate it is hypothetically possible for beings quite similar in appearance to humans to have evolved elsewhere in the Universe.
Like I said though it's best we stick to natural explanations and if we can't find one of those leave the question unanswered until we can figure it out.
Why would you tend towards a god? That would be irrational.
It's more plausible to think that the human race/species is just one of the many life forms that exist within the process of each Universe than it is to think that a god put humans on Earth and in other Universes as well, considering there's nothing to support that such a god did actually do it.
I mean, religion attempts to claim that a god made special the human race/species for a specific reason and if others come from somewhere else, then the likelihood that a god actually put humans on Earth becomes just a foolish notion.
I don't know, I'd have to disagree. I would think it would be impossible for the same species to evolve separately. I wouldn't run out and join a church, but I think it would point to intelligent design; if nothing else.
If we were to encounter human species that have existed outside our solar system, then wouldn't this completely discredit the notion of God? The bible talks about earth and how it was created and the only other 'existence' if you want to call it that, is the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, the bible would be an inaccurate, I know many already think it is, account . If that makes any sense?
That makes sense, only if you believe in the Bible. There are plenty of people who believe in a higher power that don't necessarily think the Bible was written by a higher power.
And I was just beginning to like you
Of course human similar life could develop on a planet with a similar physical aspects as ours. This is the whole point that creationists try to turn around. In all the possible types of life form that might be produced there are only so many that can use tools, and our opposeable thumb is our pass to this evolutionary line. Only so many have any need for communication more advanced than calling out for danger and to attract a mate. Only so many life types that depend on some kind of society that leads to forward thinking.
We are not here by some forward design, but because all the conditions that we evolve under produce us to fit those conditions.
I agree. I don't think I worded the OP correctly. As I told Wilderness (I think) I would think any life form that evolved in a similar environment would have many attributes in common with us. But to be human, in the exact same form? I would think that would be next to impossible, without a common ancestor.
What about the possibility that the first elements of life are created out in space and arrive via meteorites or whatever ? I read that the amino acids required for life as we know it are found in space materials.
If the starting point is the same and conditions the same, or even similar, why not the same or similar evolutionary paths ?
Maybe, yet it would seem a bit of a fluke. I would think it would have to be the exact same environmental changes, at the exact same moments in the process of the evolution of the species to garner the exact same result.
Don't get me wrong. My first thought would be that we must have both come from a common ancestor, but if that was proven impossible I might be prone to think that evolution had to have been manipulated by something.
Would it have to be such an exact process ? It appears that any social group of animals develops language from simple to complex, many animals and insects use rudimentary tools and build things - the various conditions may affect progress of the evolution but superior traits still come to the fore it seems.
I don't know. It would certainly create a bevy of research if it happened. I guess we'd figure it out somehow. I'd let the jury stay out until the experts weighed in.
I only posted this thread because it was mentioned on another thread that there was no reason to assume aliens wouldn't be human. I always assumed there was no reason to believe they would be.
"These aliens look exactly like us". Bipedal, bilaterally symmetrical, similar facial features with two arms, two legs, etc.
Given that there is a huge difference in how people look I suppose it is possible that aliens could look very similar without having our DNA - in such a case I would go with evolution. It could well be that our basic design is a virtual necessity for higher intelligence; land dwelling (use of fire for instance), arms used for manipulation and not walking, binocular vision, etc. might be necessary to evolve that intelligence. I doubt it but it could be so.
If the aliens shared our DNA and could interbreed I would have to go with God. I think that the probability of developing the identical species on another world through evolution would be vanishingly slim.
I agree. I was thinking definitely human when I posed the question. And, sure, I think if the alien species were evolved in such a way that our planet would sustain their life forms; it would make sense that we would share some traits in common.
For me, I believe a little of both may be worth considering. A higher power, yet with a time-line of evolution built in. Let us say, a higher power (alien life forms or spiritual God) placed the same form of beings on more than just earth; planets similar to ours, yet in other galaxies. If they had been placed there well before we were put on our planet, they may have developed the technology to travel through space and from galaxy to galaxy in an expeditious manner. Should they land on earth, and undergo compared DNA, it would likely be considered the same (or similar at the very least) to our own. Variance in DNA could be caused by atmosphere and element differences on the given planets where the separate evolutions occurred. So, in my mind, should any alien life form land on our planet, we may well be looking into the eyes of our future being, evolutionarily or spiritually; that's up to each of us to decide. We each have our own reasons for what works best for our heart and soul.
Just a thought. Does the presence of other life elsewhere in the universe totally rule out a possible higher consciousness in the universe? Some people may call it 'God' but it's not a term I use. For me - and I don't follow any main belief system - but I do think there is a spiritual side to the universe and other life would be part of that as well. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Well actually in the bible most angels are identified as men except for a few times
My #1 worry if confronted with such an alien yet familiar species coming to earth wold be that they not come bearing a book called "To Serve Man."
If they had bothered to travel for the thousands of years it would take to get here I doubt that they would have come for the food.
Well after traveling so long they would be pretty hungry!
Maybe they don't have McDonald's on their planet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0BSgLK … ata_player
Don't be silly MM! We all know there is a McDonalds everywhere!
The real question should be if they ate McDonalds on the trip, would they still be alive when they got here?
I read somewhere once that any alien species capable of interstellar travel would be peaceful. They presented a pretty good argument that only through peace and cooperation can a society advance. It made sense. Look at the world we live in. The most technologically advanced are, for the most part, peaceful and stable democracies.
You are having a laugh old mate - the most technologically advanced have all the bombs and guns and export war, they cannot manage simple economics to maintain any kind of stability and have totally screwed democracy until it is no longer worthy of the name
Aw, and I was just beginning to like you too.
I think, our countries are peaceful. Foreign policy toward warlike nations is completely different than our policies toward each other. At least I used to think, before I ran across so many hostile Brits.
You have to admit our space program doesn't include nuclear warheads. I think any aspirations any of us have toward space travel involve the hope of attaining knowledge, not a hope to export war.
I can agree with this, the US is the one currently making the most war, with of course its 'friends' in tow. When do we think these nations will become developed to the point of becoming 'civilised' ?
Oh, I'd say America will be civilized about as soon as China stops oppressing its people and incarcerating those who call for freedom; when the locals stop flaying people alive in Afghanistan; when genocide is stopped in Africa; when we stop finding mass graves of people who refuse to work for drug traffickers in South America; and when Europeans learn courteous manners.
So, all in all, I guess it would be safe to say just a moment before h*ll freezes over. I may, of course, be a little overly optimistic with this assessment.
Excuse me Emile. I'm a European and I do have courteous manners. Not ALL Americans are courteous - in case you hadn't noticed.
I apologize. I considered the person I was speaking with to have crossed the bounds of courtesy in several conversations we had been involved in. I spoke rudely. I certainly did not mean for that comment to be taken seriously past that point. If I have offended you, please accept my sincere apology.
Oh Okay I'll buy in , If we were invaded by humans then they wouldn't exactly be aliens now would they ?
SETI sends out signals into space in the hope of communicating with extraterrestrial civilizations but they claim that for an extraterrestrial civilization to respond they would have to be more technologically advanced than us. How do they work that out? And isn't that likely to be a bad thing?
We do have the ability to travel at or near the speed of light. Carl Sagan detailed ships designed to do this in his book Cosmos. I think there were four of them. I don't believe in aliens or ghosts or things of that nature, but my reason says to me that if aliens do exist, then they are a time-traveling evolved form of us. It only makes sense to me. And it probably only makes sense to me.
As there are millions of different species on our own planet, which look very different to each other, yet share a common ancestor, I can't see why an alien species would look anything like a human. Even if it did share an ancestor with us, evolution on a different planet would have produced so many changes, that there may be few similarities to us. Humans share many of our genes with different living forms. We share 60% of our genes with a banana and 70% with a slug, yet any visiting alien would be unlikely to realise how related we are.
I think it is possible that human-like aliens come here all the time. it might also be possible that we are their relatives. It's just a long shot, but, humans did not exist on earth until around the end of the ice age. There is all this talk about man evolving from the monkey, yet the Monkey's didn't always exist either, but nobody ever explains where they came from to support the theory.
I am not saying I'm right about this, nor do I buy the whole man created by god theories. But, I do think it would be cool to learn that us humans actually came from somewhere else in the universe, Mars, or some place else. But, I really don't care why we are here, or who else might be joining us in the future. I think we should be more concerned about peace, and taking care of what we have. Way too much time and money has been spent exploring space and ET as it is. We could have used that money a lot more wisely.
"but nobody ever explains where they came from to support the theory."
Lol, Obviously you did no research at all. You should probably take a closer look at the theory of divergent evolution, before making a statement like that.
How do you know visiting aliens are not human? How do you know they are visiting? How do you know they are not among us?
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I yes... what makes you think it so?If no... why is it impossible?
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