Sin

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   haj3396posted 13 years ago

   How did sin enter the earth, and what can we do about it?

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      Over The Hillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sin was brought to his world by Lucifer and all we can do is to avoid it in all it`s pleasures.

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      pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      sin is subjective term..there is no such things as universal sin..context is important...what is sin or what is not sin is debatable..it would keep existing becoz it is perception based...

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   3. 70

      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      This is an easy one.  Sin entered the world through God.  Since God created everything and sin is a thing, it's simple logic.
      
      Syllogistically:       God created everything.
                                Sin is part of everything.
                                therefore, God created sin.
      
      Also by giving man free-will, he actually Forced man to sin, because many things that he inclined man to do are sins. It's like He played a sadistic game of "Gotcha"
      
      What an evil God.

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   4. 60

      Arjumand01posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sin may be defined as any act of immorality or disobedience to the creator of all.The creator has created every creation and all are bound by His law.Sin is disobedience to that law and it has inherent nature of remorse in it.Only those who have a choice in obedience to Allah can commit sin, in other words those who are created both with intellect and have desires can commit sin.For example men, jinns(creatures made of fire satan being amongst them).Those who are devoid of desires and have only reason/intellect cannot commit a sin  eg angels.All those who are subject to sinning have desires which lead them to sin,their reason and rational prevent them from doing so if they firmly choose to heed their intellect.When a man thinks relying completely on his rational or reason which is inborn  without being biased by society he comes to know that there is no deity of worship other than one true creator of all-Allah, when he decides to act completely on his rational without foriegn influences he reduces his disobedience to Allah,the creator

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      1. 90

         Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I disagree entirely that that is where reason leads. Reason is opposed to superstition. Reason tells me, for example, that there are no creatures made of fire. And it certainly does not lead me to the conviction that there is a Creator.

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         1. 69

            aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you don't believe in sin, then by default you accept that you have never done any wrong against anybody else, for sin is 'missing the mark' (in archery terminology) and that's what we do when we sin, we miss the mark we aimed at hitting.
            
            Guilt comes from Satan, God brings conviction, so believers get convicted of their sin, and unbelievers get to feel guilty.
            
            How you view sin determines who is your master and is judging you. Satan enjoys bringing guilt, it makes the recipient either self justify their sin, to feel better about it, or declare that there is no sin, to harden their heart to correction by conviction by God.
            
            Sin is like pain, it tells us when something is wrong.
            
            Without feeling sin, it's like feeling no pain, you hurt yourself and others in the process of blundering through life.

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               Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's an astonishing post. It starts off wrong, then turns nonsensical. I don't need the concept of sin but I acknowledge having hurt other people. No contradiction.
               
               Guilt does not come from Satan since Satan does not exist. Please don't bother trotting out the old formula: 'Satan's greatest triumph is persuading people he doesn't exist'. I've heard it before.
               
               And I don't have a master.

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                  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  denial.

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                     Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     arrogance.
                     
                     Please tell me by what authority you insist the everyone has to have a master?

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        This one has degenerated into meaningless gibberish and delusions of grandeur. I can only assume things are not going well - that seems to be the way. The worse things get - the more righteous damnation gets handed out.

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                           Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Did you check with your master for permission to post this?

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                              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I am allowed to make low level decisions like this for myself. Anything over and above "ridicule," general "verbal abuse" and "arguing with the righteous"  - I have to get permission.
                              
                              Lots of paper work. I thought the French Government Inc was bad until I started working for these guys.

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                     2. 69

                        aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Well Bob Dylan for a start, he saw it and wrote it and sang about it, but apart from that, you and me make that a rule, because IF I were the one with ALL authority, I'd make EVERYONE come to faith, whereas if you were the one with ALL authority, you'd make everyone think the way YOU feel is correct.
                        
                        So obviously neither of us are the ones with ALL authority, and even Mark may agree that it's not him either.... so if WE cannot control even our own point of conception or beat death, whether we win the jackpot or live in abject misery, even who gets to post on the forum.... well then there are authorities over us, whether we want them or not.
                        
                        I simply recognise through experience that what we view as reality is actually just a farce we experience called life, one whereupon folk struggle to try and gain CONTROL over themselves and others, mostly failing in that, and seldom realising that the REAL existence is in the spiritual world, and all this is just a test to see how we do encumbered by a body and each others interaction.
                        
                        So on that foundation I sought to establish WHO controls this sideshow, and guess what, I found out it was God, not Satan, who had been my 'master' by default, and who I rejected and then Christ cancelled Satans authority over me, when I surrendered my rebellion against Christ, and chose Him as my Master.
                        
                        ...and answering a later post, YES Christ does permit us to post these clarifications for those who need them....
                        
                        2 Timothy 4 1:3
                        
                        I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
                        
                        Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
                        
                        For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

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                        1. 90

                           Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry, but your argument appears to be "I am not the master; you are not the master. Therefore there must be another master". That is no more sensible than "I am not the tooth fairy; you are not the tooth fairy. Therefore the tooth fairy must be somebody else".
                           
                           As a general rule - where proof is impossible, it is unwise to insist on being right.

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                           1. 69

                              aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              No quite, the standard atheist tooth fairy defence will not work here.... my point is not as you state, it's.... if YOU don't have authority over your life, and I don't have authority over my life.... what does have authority over our lives..... ?
                              
                              Stop with the questions, start with the answers, if you have a better answer than mine!

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                              1. 90

                                 Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 The answer is simple enough:
                                 
                                 I have some control over my life, but that control is not total.
                                 
                                 e.g. I can take reasonable care but can't guarantee that I won't suffer an accident that will change or even end my life.
                                 
                                 e.g. I may sign up to a contract that obliges me to do certain things for a certain period of time.
                                 
                                 None of this requires an invisible master.

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            2. 58

               Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Aren't those two completely different concepts? Isn't sin a wrong committed against a god?
               
               
               
               I can't speak for anyone else, but my own set of derived morals would not allow me to do anything wrong against anybody else, intentionally. Maybe accidentally, but that doesn't really count, does it? Therefore, I would have no guilt. 

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                  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  self justification.... and denial!

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                     the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Your just saying that to piss him off. Why dont you just call him a poopie head and get it over with.

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                        Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yep, that would work

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                        aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Nah.... to simple!

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   5. 0

      Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      1 John 3:4
      Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

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2. 60

   kessposted 13 years ago

   Sin is made by the sinner, To the righteous man sin does not nor can ever exist.
   
   The earth is because of Light not Darkness.....
   
   Sin has made it's appearance because of darkness....where light is the darkness must recede.

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      Over The Hillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Kess,you`re in for some rough days

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   2. 70

      pylos26posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah...and when it rains there is litle dust.

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3. 58

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Also by giving man free-will, he actually Forced man to sin, because many things that he inclined man to do are sins. It's like He played a sadistic game of "Gotcha"
   ==========
   
     Jerami says  ...  do you see a contradiction of words in your statement?
   
     Free will was forced upon mankind so it is all Gods fault ???

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      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I fail to see any contradiction.  And just when are you gonna start holding your God responsible for the egregious bumbling mistakes he has made.
      
      If you could expand your mind, just a little, you would see that your omniscient, omnipotent God should be responsible for everything, not man.
      
      You want to give your God all the credit for creating the universe and for being all loving, but you never seem to understand--with great power, comes great responsibility.
      
      If God wants to pass the results of his incompetence on to us, then He is a feeble and unscrupulous leader.
      
      If He wants to be God, He is gonna hafta stand up and be a leader.
      
      You can't become a sergeant just by sewing stripes onto your sleeves.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You say that God has made mistakes in his game plan when you can not preceive what kind of game that he is playing.
         
           If you want to call what he is doing a Game.

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4. 90

   Paragliderposted 13 years ago

   Sin is a construct of religion, requiring an offendable God, another such construct. Forget about God and religion, and then sin disappears, as does the guilt that oppresses so many. Thus freed from superstition, we can focus on what really matters - taking care of ourselves, our families, our friends, our neighbours, our World. Working for the benefit of society. And having fun along the way.
   
   Can you fault it??

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Except for the "Forget about God" part, I agree completely with your logic.
      
        When religion stands between us and God .. this is not good.
      
        When religion stands as our interpreter  between us and God we have little if any relationship with God.
      
        I think that Jesus died on the cross that we have a short cut to God.
      
        For some reason many people choose to remain in the maze that only exists in their minds.

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         Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Even if that were true (which I very much doubt) what EARTHLY difference does it make? I see nothing in Jesus's supposed teachings that goes against my formula for living in the here and now. So take it or leave it, but get on with the only life we know we have.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I do agree with your concept as long as we remember what it was like raising our children. They required knowing that there were boundaries that they had to stay within, if they wanted to be happy living in "OUR" world.
            
               We have to have a center of focus in order to walk the balance beam.  We can't just shut our eyes and go forward.

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            1. 90

               Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Jerami - that is what Ethics is all about, and it does not need to be tied into religion. The Ancient Greeks had no problem separating the two, but the Judeo/Christian and Islamic traditions have always been confused in this matter.

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               1. 58

                  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't see the word SIN as having any mystical meaning.
                  It would seem to me that anything that is BAD for us individually or as a group is sin. 
                  
                     In that respect ...Sin doesn't have a religious connotation.

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                     Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     That's a refreshing view. Unfortunately there are many who insist that sin requires redemption to avoid damnation, which is why I prefer to do without the word altogether, in favour of the less emotionally charged 'wrongdoing'

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      Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think so. I think consciousness of having sinned predates organized religion. It is the feeling that we have done something terribly, terribly wrong. All moral people are capable of feeling guilt. And yes, morality predates religion, too. It is just a set of rules that we internalize to help us survive in our relations with our peers. But if the consciousness of wrongdoing were not a visceral, automatic emotion, then it would be very hard to enforce any morality. True morality comes from within.

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         Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree that consciousness of wrongdoing probably predates religion as we know it. But I think wrongdoing is defined by by human society, as behaviour that harms the group. After all, people have always lived in groups, especially children, who need society if they are to survive into adulthood.

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            Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Anything that helps the individual ultimately benefits the group, as groups are always composed of individuals, although not all individuals are members of groups. To the extent that individuals are benefited by group membership, traits that help both individuals and groups are selected for by nature. To the extent that group membership is harmful to the individual, such traits are not selected for. That's why a sense of wrongdoing when stealing is rather common across human societies and is found even among relatively isolated individuals. But... people naturally rebel against being enslaved, because slavery may benefit the group, allowing it to build beautiful pyramids, but it is harmful to the individual.

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               Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I think we're agreeing that morality serves society, albeit with our usual philosophical difference over the relative importance of individual and group in the balance.
               I'm sure we're agreeing that morality and/or ethics does not require religion or God.

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                  Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes.

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               the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Aya, your first sentance is totally incorrect. If I am living in a population of ten, and i have eaten all of my food, and i steal from others in the group, yes, it benefits me, but not the group as a whole.

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                  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  Correct!

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5. 58

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Paraglider  said  ....
      Unfortunately there are many who insist that sin requires redemption to avoid damnation,
   ===========================================================
      
   
      When we do things that are detrimental for our health physically or mentaly it does hold us back somewhat from ataining our intended purposes.
      I see repentence as becoming aware of how we are holding ourselves back and not doing that again.
   
      It sometimes takes the passing of time before our past stops catching up with us. Before we stop paying for those "sins".
   
      Once we get past that point we are then saved from ourselves.
   
     Forget about it, put it behind us and move on.
   
     I do believe in an after life that we do not want to take any of that trash with us.
   
      So in a way I am agreeing with much of what "Religion" is saying.  I think it just needs to be looked at from a different prospective.

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   Paragliderposted 13 years ago

   @Jerami - I think we're pretty close on how to conduct this life. Our only difference is in the unresolvable issue of whether or not there's another life to come.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Back to home for a little bit.
      
        As far as the unresolved idea of a life after death?
      
        For me there is not an issue. I just revert back to when I was a child. Long before I was taught that there was a death of the life force within???   I already knew that there wasn't.
      
        I believe that the human imagination has a power of its own.
      We can do nothing that our own mind tells us that we can not do.
      Anything is possible that our mind says that we can do.
      
         Until we start putting conditions upon it.
      
         Until outside power of suggestion is inflicted upon our pitiful little concious minds.
      
         I believe that whatever our mind believes at that moment of physical death has a bearing upon what we have created for ourselves after we pass over into a different realm.
      
         If you create nothingness in your mind? that is what you are goina get. 
         Now this is where flawed thinking comes in.  Ya caint just want it! Ya caint get just anything that ya say that ya want! 
        Ya gotta really believe it.  And what ever your subconscious mind " Really Believes" is what you have created for yourself.
      That is the way it is in this life!! 
         Why should that change upon death of the physical body?
      
         We are all much more than this physical body!
         Unfortunately the power of suggestion has convinced the masses that this is not so.

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         Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Trouble is, there is evidence suggesting that mind/consciousness is dependent on an organic (and mortal) brain. I've not seen a lot of evidence to support independence of these two.

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