gaza strip

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Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years ago
In July Hamas only fired 26 missles into Israel. How would you feel about this if it was your country getting bombed, and how would you want your country to respond? Remember, Israel does have innocent women and children. H
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  Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Israel got their 'response' in first, by blockading the Gaza Strip.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Para, Is that what your country would do?
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  Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  However I interpret 'my country', i.e. Scotland, UK, or Qatar, I can't easily find anything to answer in your question.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Para, Do you think either would take 12,000 rocket hits in a year? H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which happened first: the rocket attacks into Israel from Gaza, or the blockade of Gaza by Israel?
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  Paragliderposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which country has launched more ordnance into the other over the last several years? Which country has killed more of the other's citizenry?
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So Israel is wrong because they defend themselves, better than the murderers can slaughter them?
  
  What warped logic that is.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, Thank you very much for your understanding. H
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Harvey, having TM agree with you is not a good sign that your argument makes sense.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ron, I don't care about the individual, facts are facts. H
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fact is this start years back with the PLO and others. Remember Munich? How soon we forget. The blockade started when Israel discovered that PLO and others were being shipped weapons by sea. So they set up the naval Blockade. No other reason other than to stop weapons from coming in.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you American, I had forgotten that. H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Over the last several years" - starting when exactly? And why choose this specific time frame?
  
  Which refuses to ever recognize the other's right to exist?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, The Palestinian and now Hamas chater states that they will drive Israel into the sea, kill all Jews. H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that is drawn from the Hadith. So it holds wieght in Islam.
  
  http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.the … arter.html
  
  Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas
  Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.
  
  Article Nine: Motives and Objectives
  Hamas finds itself at a period of time when Islam has waned away from the reality of life. For this reason, the checks and balances have been upset, concepts have become confused, and values have been transformed; evil has prevailed, oppression and obscurity have reigned; cowards have turned tigers, homelands have been usurped, people have been uprooted and are wandering all over the globe. The state of truth has disappeared and was replaced by the state of evil. Nothing has remained in its right place, for when Islam is removed from the scene, everything changes. These are the motives. As to the objectives: discarding the evil, crushing it and defeating it, so that truth may prevail, homelands revert [to their owners], calls for prayer be heard from their mosques, announcing the reinstitution of the Muslim state. Thus, people and things will revert to their true place.
  
  And we all know who the State Of Evil, is... or shall I tell you?
  
  Article Twelve: Hamas in Palestine, Its Views on Homeland and Nationalism
  Hamas regards Nationalism (Wataniyya) as part and parcel of the religious faith. Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims. And this becomes an individual duty binding on every Muslim man and woman; a woman must go out and fight the enemy even without her husband’s authorization, and a slave without his masters’ permission.
  
  Nationalism?... Isn't that an evil word? Isn't that an evil Ideology in its own?... Where are the fanatical Leftists on that?...
  
  And let us not forget this lil goody...
  
  The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.
  
  "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
  
  "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
  
  "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
  
  "After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
  
  Yeah... those guys all exude peace and love.
  
  WTF is wrong with you people?
  
  http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.the … arter.html
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, An excellent post. Of course Liberal's will dismiss it, it is truth. H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have yet to see one of them touch the "Nationalist" aspect.... "Nationalist"... sorta rings of an eerie familiarity eh?
  
  Where could I have heard that before... Nationalism?... hrmm?
  
  Oh yeah... their Socialist allies in WWII, the NAZIs... no wonder they all get along so well.
  
  http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html
  
  They ought to all be proud of themselves... the things their fore-bearers have done. Shame Shame Shame...
  
  Oh yes but lets blame Israel... how ignorant of me.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Para, The Palestinans have fired more, but the Israelis have killed more. Better weapons trounces rockets and suicide bombers. H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, The rocket attacks have gone on for decades. H
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  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What did the 26 missiles hit? Anybody injured or killed?
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  American Viewposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A few civilians from what I read. But does that mean Israel needs to wait for another School bus to be hit like in April
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VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 12 years ago
I wonder how Israel remained silent after seeing missiles landing on their soil. I thought Israel is the only country to react sharply to the erring enemies. It is a pity that they remained silent... Or do they have anything in store for Hamas?

If those missiles came to my country, it will be Pakistan only which has the motive to do so. But as of now, they will not venture to take up such an adventurous action. 40 years before, when they ventured to drop bombs on Indian soil, on 3-12-1971, India destroyed its naval facilities in one day, rendered its air force ineffective and cut off all supply routes such that they could not get any help from Arab-muslims or even USA. It was on 4-12-1971. The next 13 days saw the Indian troops occupying East Pakistan fully and part of W.Pakistan. The war ended on 16-12-1971,with 90000 soldiers surrendereing and Pakistan was left in a state of rubbles and ruins. Major part of the country was declared independent (Bangla Desh). If at any time in future, they undertake a similar adventure, the UNO may lose one of its member countries.
This will be my India's response if it gets bombed again.

For fear of this fact only, they are encouraging terrorists instead of sending their army. But the pity is there are no terrorists to counter those from Pakistan.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As you say Israel does have innocents just like Gaza. If Israel were my country I'd want to see the Israeli government get serious with regards to the peace talks. Putting an end to the illegal land grabs, settlement building and occupation of Gaza would be a good start.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, "Get serious." How do negotiate ith people that only want to kill you? H
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As I said in my earlier post there are innocents in Israel just as in Gaza. Not all want to kill, many just want peace- on both sides. Therefore, the Israeli government also have a responsibility to act within international law. That would be, as I said, a good start.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, Hamas fires rockets from within the populus, Israel does no such thing. Hamas wants their women & children to die, then can show what "big bad Israel" has done. H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ven, When Israel responds the worl condems that, they are forced to pick and choose. The world has always loved Jew!. H
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  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You mean when Israel overreacts, bombing hospitals, schools, innocent pedestrians.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is unfortunately true. The hawks and expansionists have seized power in Israel, after the pacifists were rebuffed again and again and again by the Palestinians. The Palestinians got what they wished for; maybe it (an Israel that's losing its moral authority) is exactly what it wanted.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, You evidentally have no knowledge of who controlled the territory earlier. There was no such thing as a Palastinian in 1967 when Israel was attacked by a few Arab countries.
  
  Israel took over that land when fighting back. Besides, they gave the Gaza to the Palestinian two years ago. H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And there was no such thing as an Israeli before 1948. What is your point?
  
  There are 2 peoples currently living in one stretch of land. Their values, culture, language are incompatible with each other (considerably more different from other countries like Norway and Sweden, Spain and Portugal, Ukraine and Russia, etc.). There will always be plenty of people on both sides who think they deserve everything, and the other side has never existed or shouldn't exist. Should they be indulged?
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes there was.
  
  There was an Israel long before there was an Islam.
  
  "Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations..." (Deuteronomy 32:7)
  
  The birthplace of the Jewish people is the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael). There, a significant part of the nation's long history was enacted, of which the first thousand years are recorded in the Bible; there, its cultural, religious, and national identity was formed; and there, its physical presence has been maintained through the centuries, even after the majority was forced into exile. During the many years of dispersion, the Jewish people never severed nor forgot its bond with the Land. With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, lost 2,000 years earlier, was renewed.
  
  http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+I … istory.htm
  
  http://www.haaretz.com/news/new-palesti … e-1.215993
  
  Islam can leave Israel... period.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, "What is your point?" Don't you know that Jews have lived there for thousands of years. Many countries tried to take it away, killing the Jews. When the UN chartered Israel.
  
  Since it's first day Israel has had to defend itself. They can live with Palestinians, (there are millions of Palestinians living in Israel that wish to remain Israeli's) the Palestinians want the Israeli's dead. Can't you understand that? H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understand and agree with all you've said there, but it's only half the story. Arabs and Bedouin have been living there for thousands of years, too. And not all the Palestinians want the Israelis dead; most have consigned themselves to the fact that they'll have to share the land with Israel. Most Israelis feel the same way about the Palestinians. Which is why I asked the question: should the extremists be indulged?
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The extremists now own the entire middle East, or will shortly, in the form of the Muslim Brother-hood.
  
  How does that bode for Israeli dis-armament?
  
  What do you think that lil bit of indulgence, Obama allowing thier rise to power and actually inspiring and assisting with arms much of it, is going to turn out for the world... and Israel in perticular?
  
  yeah... good luck on the peace in the Middle east dream. islam despises the jews... period! There is no out from that fact.
  
  Allah said to hate and kill the Jews, among all the others, but the Jews have a special place in allah's heart... and every word of allah is law.
  
  Cannot be changed... not by you, nor me, nor any moderate Muslim.
  
  Allah's word is law. And that is the problem.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, Evidendally there are some here that don't care for you, but you've written the truth. Could it be that, that is what they are against? H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is okay, Harvey, I am not here to make friends. I have plenty of those already.
  
  Besides, I do not buy the lie just so I can be liked by all. That seems to be a problem with not only the Leftists, but a lot of the Christians also, though... so.
  
  Oh well, Harv.. they will get over it.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, The latest polls there show over 70% of the Palestinians want all Israeli land, and Jews head. If you wish truth try
  wwwhonestreporting.com
  H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  www.memri.org is pretty good also.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What poll?
  This poll taken last year says 73% of Palestinians want peace negotiations with Israel, and 61% want rocket attacks from Gaza to stop:
  http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d … l-1.297196
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right up untill 1470 years ago, live.
  
  Guess what occurred at that time in history?
  
  And that is only if you buy into your flawed premise of there being peace in the Middle East at any time in history.
  
  And no, not so different people of today then yesterday Live... alot of those groups have been around for decades.
  
  http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you live longer for bringing some clarity to this debate. Neither side are completely vindicated here. History is of course important, but so is peace. I don't agree though about incompatible- I'm an optimist!
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I think they're incompatible, though. It would be easier to make the Norwegians and Danes (same language, same religion, very similar cultures) merge into a single country, or the Spanish and Portuguese (mutually intelligible language, same religion, similar cultures), Dutch and Belgians, etc.
  
  That shouldn't be an impediment to peace, though. Good fences make good neighbors.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with regards to impediments for peace- Where there's a will there's a way. And yes, good fences do make good neighbors.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Long term I'm optimistic. But it's going to be a very long time. In the meantime, I think two separate countries that mind their own business would be good to let tempers cool down for a few generations. Trust has to come out of somewhere.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely, I think a two state solution is probably the way forward. I was in Manchester some years ago after the city was bombed by the IRA, I never thought I'd live to see the day when Ireland welcomed the Queen of England. That indeed was progress. I hope one day this can be achieved between Israel and Palestine.
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You do know the definition of insanity?
  
  Israel has tried over and over for peace... and been biten every time for it.
  
  So that would be?...
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, Don't you understand the Palestinians do not want peace! They gave away the S'nai, the Gaza and the West Bank for peace. Instead they receive missles daily. How would you negotiate after that, please tell me? H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ralphie, How does any country over react when they are attacked. Did you get the over react from the NY Times? H
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recommend1posted 12 years ago
The aggressive mis-handling of every aspect of the foreign policy of Israel under the mis-guiding hand of the US just ensures that the issues will never decrease in any way - the whole region is only heading toward a glowing hole in the ground. The best hjope for everyone is that the diminshment of the US dollar and economy will reduce the billions being poured into Israeli armament and force a genuine dialogue that might get somewhere.

Israel is a culture with a victim complex, the sooner it grows out of it the better.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  recommend, The Israeli's don't have a right to think of themselves as victims. If you don't understand that, you have a problem.
  
  Arab's claim to be victems, look who's killing them. H
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
Israel needs to re-take control of Gaza and remove all the "Palestinians" outside of their borders.

Enough is enough.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How exactly would this action lead to a lasting peace?
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You pre-suppose anything Israel does will assure peace.
  
  It will not.
  
  Islam is determined, and indeed ordered, to remove the curruptors -Jews-, from the earth. Allah decreed it and they will attempt to accomplish it for the remainder of days. Because that is the only way the end times will come, -when the jews will be hunted so fiercly to extinction, even the stones will surrender the Jews to any Muslims for the slaughter.-, so to think there is anything Israel can do that will pacify Islam or the Palestinians, is absurd.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I pre-suppose nothing. Negotiations or peace talks, involve the participation and some compromise from both parties. If you adopt the attitude that there is nothing that Israel can do to pasify (your words) Palestine, then Israel has clearly adopted a stance that involves no compromise from them in a move towards a peaceful settlement. My grandparents were jewish (now deceased) and they too believed that Israel had not only made no concessions, but were demanding more. This is not how peace will be achieved!
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You need to take up the, "nothing that can be done to gain peace", thing with Islam.
  
  Israel would gladly accept peace and HAVE offered everthing that the supposed "Palestinians" wanted to them. And Arafat walked away... that is because what they want is Israel to be gone, annihalated... nothing more nor less will do.
  
  Pretty simple.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The need regarding "nothing can be done to gain peace" involves both parties. Arafat was a while ago. I recently watched a programme about a Jewish women who' d been born in Israel, quite soon after it's inception. She had started to buy vegetables from a Palestian Farmer a few years ago. They were both very suspicious of each other, as you can imagine. Then, the water supply to his crops had been cut by Israeli settlers. The women, once she had discovered this, was outraged. This man provides a service and the best organic vegetables, how can you do this? His family have occupied this land for more than 200 years. She eventually mobilized her neighbors. They funded this mans case, he is still waiting for the outcome. The point I'm trying to make, is that if people truly want peace, they will find common ground, mutual respect and discover that they can actually share a space and live together. Both sides need to get rid of the sterotypes. This is possible. Talk about peace, how it can be achieved. Don't assume that every muslim is the same, that's as bad as assuming that every Jew has the same view point.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To everyone that talks peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
  Please read this
  http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/israe … -gaza.html
  H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, They could do that any time they want to, but Israel never starts a war. That is the Jewish way. They have the 4th or 5th strongest military in the world, that's the only reason the Arab's don't attack as a country. H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The 1967 war was started by Israel.
  Maybe you should take some time to educate yourself on the facts of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It won't make you support Israel any less, but it would probably make you a lot less doubtful of a potential peace agreement.
  People being fed misinformation and stereotypes on both sides are an impediment to peace.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, I apologize, I was thinking of another Israeli-Arab war. Please read this to the end.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
  
  Can you say provoked! How many Arab countries were involved vs. one Israel. This shows you why the Arabs don't attack as a country, they prefer to fire from behind women and children. H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which are you talking about? The multi-country wars of the mid-20th century, or the more terrorist-style attacks of the late-20th century? You do realize they are different groups of people, right? "They're all Arabs" doesn't really cut it.
  
  Again, saying that peace is impossible becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, What is your plan for peace? Remember, the Arabs want t kill the Jews. H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It starts with Jews stopping saying "Arabs want to kill Jews" and Palestinians stopping saying "Jews want to control us forever." You can start by doing your part of stopping to disseminate racist and untrue things. You do realize that many (not all) Palestinians are saying racist and untrue things about Jews, right? Don't you want them to stop?
  
  Re: a peace plan itself. Both sides need to rein in their extremists. That means Hamas has to take the part about being committed to Israel's destruction out of its charter, and Israel needs to stop all settlement building. Both sides will have to share Jerusalem (which they are basically already doing now).
  
  If you left the zealots out of it, a peace plan would have already been in place.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live, First Hamas has to stop its attacks, isn't that what leads to negotiations? The last time Israel was negotiating with Hamas, Hamas was firing rockets during negotiations.
  
  A quote from Golda Mier, a former Prime Minister of Israel. "IF the Arag's put down their weapons, there will be peace. If the Israeli's put down their weapons, there will be no Israel!" H
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  livelongerposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. Hamas was firing rockets because it has nothing to gain by the peace process. I said earlier that Hamas has to abandon the destruction of Israel as one of its goals for that reason.
  
  Meir is right that Israel will have to maintain a big military as a deterrent. But that doesn't mean it has to use it for retaliation, much less to bully new settlements in Palestinian territory.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Live and all that think the same way, Look at these pics of Gaza that the MSM doesn't show.
  Gaza_yes_Gaza.pps(2.33MB)
  
  You will see what most of Gaza looks like. H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Six-Day War, -the third major Arab-Israeli conflict — was in a sense a continuation of the first two wars, Live.
  
  Broadly speaking the causes of the fighting in 1967 overlapped with the causes of fighting in 1948 Arab rejection of Israel, and 1956 the continuing rejectionism and an Egyptian blockade of shipping to Israel.
  
  Specifically, the war stemmed from Egypt's decision to expel United Nations troops from the Sinai peninsula and blockade Israel's port of Eilat, under international law a casus belli, or act of war, in addition to belligerent Arab threats to destroy Israel. Much of the above could be traced to Soviet meddling and misinformation.
  
  The War involved three distinct battlefronts, tied together by a shared desire on the part of the surrounding Arab states to eliminate Israel, a favorite islamic past-time, and erase the shame of their defeat 19 years earlier when they failed to destroy the new-born Jewish state.
  
  Egypt, the largest Arab state with a population of 31 million at the time, massed troops on its border with Israel and imposed a naval blockade of Israel’s southern port, an act of war.
  
  Confronted with these aggressive moves, and the Arab leaders' promises to destroy the Jewish state, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against the Egyptian army and airforce. Egypt’s air force was quickly crippled, and a well-executed Israeli ground offensive routed the Egyptian forces in Gaza and the Sinai peninsula in four days.
  
  And Israel should out the once again.
  
  I am well aware of the history, Live. Israel is not sinless in this, but they are by no means the fault of it all.
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
They can have a state outside of Israel's borders... let the Arabs give them the land.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, It has been proven the the other Arab's don't want them. H
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I know.
  
  But these other do not.
  
  They have no clue as to what israel has done to be accepted there... and they just do not care.
  
  You know, sometimes the problem IS one side. Sometimes the blame IS NOT shared.
  
  That is called the real world.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, I will never understand how these people can't see what's happening. As good Lib's, if it were the other way around they would be calling us RACIST. H
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
Your just jealous.

Some day I may agree with you. Maybe if you continue to learn and grow with the truth, rather than being locked into your false understandings of the real world.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's Good advise TMMason, why don't you listen to it!
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Haah... your so funny... not to original... but funny.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I presume by your reply that this has been suggested to you previously.
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Most point me to the BS talking points of the Left, or some Liberal Progressive history and BS...
  
  Why? is there some Leant Leftist Liberal Socialist Progressive text you think shows some truth I am missing?
  
  And I find funny that you think by saying, -oh you should take your own advice-, is a keen response. It is another spin trick is all.
  
  What part of the History surrounding this issue do you think I am not understanding?
  
  Show me it, and I will show you the truth of it... I am waiting.
  
  Israel was bought and p[aid for... Islam is the problem, not Israel. And untill Islam is removed from the inside the borders of Israel... there will be no peace.
  
  Of course even then there won't be... as long as Islam is a force in the world, the Jews are not safe. And the rest of the world has proved over and over they will not, or cannot defend the Jews.
  
  Of do you need a primer on the way the world has treated the Jews. Anti-Semitism... is the tie that binds Islam, the American and European Left... they thrive on it.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Firstly, I have no idea what you mean by Leant ? leftist. Secondly, leftist, liberal, socialist, progressive is a huge grouping, consisting as their label suggests, of four different perspectives, who do not all share exactly the same ideology. You make sweeping generalizations.
  History is important but it's today that matters, arguing about historical events has not and will not move us forward. I need no lessons regarding anti semitism, given that I have Jewish blood running through my veins. But, by the same rule, I do not believe that because someone disagrees with me they are an anti-semite. Perhaps that was the point recommend 1 trying to make by using the term victim complex.
  We clearly disagree on many things, we both have the absolute right as equal human beings to do so. I accept that the points you make are your truth, just as I have my truth.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Leant Leftist seems to be TM's pet name for anyone who disagrees with him.
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. Only for the Leant Leftists in general, regardless of who agrees or dis-agrees with me.
  
  If your a Leant Leftist, then you'r a Leant Leftist.
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  Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, but the Venn diagram for Leant Leftists and People who Disagree with TMMason looks an awful lot like a circle...
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jeff, I'm not going to touch Leant. H
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I honestly don't get what leant means.
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Leant leftists... ie; Marxist, Socialist, Liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Communist, etc... any of the leant Left ideologies.
  
  I specify sometimes... and generalize others when necessary.
  
  And the tie of anti-Semitism has been shown to be true over and over by the Leant Leftists and Islams. That anti-Semite remark was not about you in specific, but as to who will protect the Jews if they do not protect themselves. Germany, Turkey, and the EU? That should be clear in its context.
  
  That's a joke.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Marxism, socialism, yes many similarities. Socialist, liberal very few. These are quite distinct ideologies you're talking about. Many from the right would describe themselves as progressives, are you suggesting that they are communists? I don't understand your point. Are you saying that everyone who disagrees with your view falls into the above categories?
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am stating they are all, Leant Leftists.
  
  Especially the Right-Wing Progressives. They have compromised away all the Conservative principles of the Right, to move us Left toward their own kith and kin.
  
  Go read my hub on Socialism Marxism Communism etc... if you want details.
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  TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can do as Harvet suggests here...
  
  http://washingtonjewishweek.com/m/Artic … leID=15154
  
  And here is an excellent source for the goings on around the founding of Israel...
  
  http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-c … sp#Whathap
  
  I especially enjoy reading the Arabs and others at the bottom in their interviews, as they complian of how the Islamic nations stranded them there after removing them from their homes, and destroying all they had... in effect creating the refugee population we have today.
  
  Such as this man...
  
  "Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave... We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave... We have rendered them dispossessed... We have accustomed them to begging... We have participated in lowering their moral and social level... Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of political purposes..."
  
  - Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war [note: same person as above]
  
  Funny how history goes, isn't it.
  
  Now that all the reasonable Muslims such as this man are gone... and the Muslim Brotherhood holds power across the Middle East... there will be NO peace.
  
  That is simple to see.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, Nice quote. H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, If nothing else, please read the history of the west bank, and the founding of Israel. Five Arab countries attacked Israe the day they were charted by the UN. At that time there were 600,000 Jews in Israel, and they had no organized military. Still they defeated five countries. Out of the 600,000, there were women, children, elderly and sick. Is that not a miracle? H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TM, As a Jew I have experienced anti-Semitism in our country since I started kindergarten. I have been shot at by gun and bow and arrow, attemped knifing, beaten with my arms held out and much more. When it was one on one, I usually got my revenge.
  
  There would have been no revenge had I been in other countries at different times.
  
  What do all you liberal's think it was and is like fora Jew living in an Arab country? In Europe now, Muslim's attack Jews as well as Christian's. Church's are burned inalmost all Muslim countries. Try reading
  www.jihadwatch.com H
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, TM's advice was good, see above what Iposted about longer range missle's. H
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
How can you not know what "leant" means?

Especially British folk?

Public Schools... never mind, I understand.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/leant

Already gone.
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moiragallagaposted 12 years ago
There are always two sides to an argument, in some cases maybe even more. What is definite though is that it is the people caught in between that suffer most. Hopefully, peace can be found in that troubled region.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Moira, Tell us how this can happen? All the Arabs want is to kill the Jews. H
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moiragallagaposted 12 years ago
There are always two sides to an argument, in some cases maybe even more. What is definite though is that it is the people caught in between that suffer most. Hopefully, peace can be found in that troubled region.
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
Mohammad taught Muslims to murder Jews.

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Mohammad taught Muslims to murder non-Muslims.

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Mohammad taught Muslims to murder people who left Islam.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Mohammad taught Muslims to murder people they did not trust.

Qur'an 4:091: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

Mohammad taught Muslims to murder people they thought to be idolaters.

Qur'an 9:005: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Qur'an 17:033: And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying; surely he is aided.

You all see a pattern here?....

No... just me?

What a joke...

Murder is the major unspoken pillar of Islam. This explains why there are Muslims who are shooting missles into Israel, making bombs and detonating them, and plotting murder against Israel and the world in too many ways to list here, as you read this.

Western governments must be proactive and preemptive in their response to international Muslim terrorism. Appeasement of Islam will drive the world into World War III just as appeasement of Hitler by Neville Chamberlain, resulted in World War II.

And our government cannot help but to trip over itself pacifying the Muslim menace? How long before Obama and his croonies sell out Israel? How many more innocent victims of Muslim terrorism will there be? How many more dead Jews?

Wake up people.
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  Moderndayslaveposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/04 … to-hijack/
  http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/02 … -tel-aviv/
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TMMasonposted 12 years ago
Your are right in that a lot of Muslims sects argue amongst themselves, usually when there are no Jews or others around to kill.
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