10 Commandments

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  1. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    One thing I have always wondered is to what extent people think the 10 Commandments are meant to be absolutely context free, and to what extend they were meant for the People immediately after Exodus and somewhat specific to their needs. I mean, the bit about making idols was important for unity then, but many churches clearly have idols now and it is not seen as being as bad as murder, or even bad at all?

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    1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
      DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As with many other parts of the bible, The ten commandments have been "adjusted" (interpreted) to allow the "christian" to feel sin free in their actions.

      If God hasn't changed, then neither has his laws or how the punishment meant for those who break them.

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      1. Jakob Dailes profile image60
        Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        How "adjusted"? They're exactly the same in Judaism and Christianity.

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        1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
          DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          They do in fact read the same in both bibles (for the most part, some variance on word choice) However, the way the "churches" interpret them vary greatly. If we didn't "Covet" then why do we need to advertise retail items.

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          1. psycheskinner profile image77
            psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            ... because retail items don't belong to our neighbor.  The commandment doesn't say you can't want things, but that you shouldn't envy other people for the things they have or try to take their things.

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            1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
              DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Advertising is completely based on coveting. Explain it as you wish.

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              1. psycheskinner profile image77
                psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Coveting of things that are not already in private possession is not disallowed by the Commandments.  It may not be encouraged, but it is allowed.

                I think the commandments are pithy enough for that to be clear to anyone who has read them. People do like to crop out some of the words in them... as if they are a better editor of God's intent than Moses. But I tend to assume that all the words are meant to be there to arrive at the intended meaning.

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                1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
                  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Moses didn't write those books. They were edited many times by many people and schools of thought. The bible you are reading today (the "original") wasn't written until about the time of the exile to Babylon.

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                  1. psycheskinner profile image77
                    psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    I was taking a literalist line as the complaint seems to be based on that point of view. And was incorrect even on that basis.

                    I mean if you wish to literally base your life on a document, surely you should have read it carefully? The ten commandments is hardly a long and complicated document in its current received English version--without even getting into why that version is... limited.

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          2. Jakob Dailes profile image60
            Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly as psycheskinner said. Please, sir, I'd like to know if there's anything else you think the Church does that is against the Commandments.

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            1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
              DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I am sorry...there is only one denomination of christian church? Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought they were over 30,000. So there is no "the church" there is multiple "churches". And lets see... How many keep the Sabbath day? Few if any...How many honor their father and mother? How about adultery? We might want to check the OT definition of this one. Oh and if you don't like the OT version, check out what Jesus has to say about it in the Gospel of Matthew or Luke. How many worship only the "one true god"? They can't even agree on who "the one true god" even is to worship him.

              I am not the one who pretends to live a certain way while actually living in opposition to how I believe things to be. I don't claim things to be truth or facts if I can't prove those claims. I hold a formal education in Biblical Studies (PHD) and Religion (working to complete my Masters).

              As I have stated before, the Ten Commandments will be twisted to fit what makes one feel good about themselves.

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              1. Jakob Dailes profile image60
                Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                If you really read up in the Bible, as you seem to claim to, you'd know that the Church, capitalized, is everyone on Earth who truly loves and accepts Jesus. If you don't obey the Commandments, or at least strive to, you aren't part of the Church, you're just someone claiming to be part of it. Personally, I do rest on the Sabbath, I try my best to honour my father and mother, and I wouldn't commit adultery if I was married. Anything else you wanna say?

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                1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
                  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus only had two commandments. And adultery applies to more than just married people. And I am not talking about you. I was talking in general. Why is it everyone takes a debate or discussion personal?

                  And about the "Church", who determines who truly loves and follows Jesus? There seems to be some debate among the "christians" as to who those people truly are.

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                  1. Jakob Dailes profile image60
                    Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    It's in the Bible, dude. The Church is God's chosen elite, who love him as truly as a human can. God either predestines or allows all, and of course in this case he has chosen his followers.

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    2. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      good question psych.

      a delima trying to apply rigid rules, in a world so eclectic now.  interesting paradox I think

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    3. parrster profile image82
      parrsterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry this is a bit long, but is my understanding as to the context of the Ten Commandments; in other words how they fit in with the overall scriptures. Prior to the Hebrews being chosen for a special purpose by God, the father of their nation [Abram] was given messianic promises (Gen 12:1f); promises repeated often to him and his descendents: “Through your seed [Abram] all the nations of the earth will be blessed. (Examples: to Abraham Gen 22:18; to Isaac 26:4; to Jacob 28:14)
      Jacobs name was then changed to Israel.
      430 years later the nation of Israel (descended from Abraham, Isaac & Jacob [Israel]) were chosen by God to enter into a covenant relationship with him. The Ten Commandments were given as a physical testament (witness) of the binding agreement made between God and Israel (what we call the Old Testament [OT]). This covenant also entailed many other laws (commandments) given by God, which can be read in the books of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. However, the giving of this law in no way annulled the covenant of promise previously given to Abraham.
      In fact, in the New Testament (new covenant), we are told in Galatians 3:17, “And this I say, that the law, which was 430 years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.”
      Why was the OT given then? Galatians 3:19a – “What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions…” When would this old covenant end? Galatians 3:19b “…[when] the seed should come”. Of course, Christ has come, and he has established the New Covenant with all mankind. Therefore we are no longer under the old covenant. That it is not to say it is now OK to murder. Rather, the OT is no longer Gods measure by which all men will be judged (for that law was for the Jews), rather it is the New Covenant, the one established through Christ sacrifice. (That’s the nutshell version)

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    4. liftandsoar profile image61
      liftandsoarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The best rule for interpreting Scripture is to  follow Scripture itself.  Each of the commandments is affirmed by Jesus in the NT.  Thus they are meant to be a window into the heart of God.  These are the things that He values.  Regarding Idols, remember that idolatry is not just the making of a physical likeness to worship.  It's allowing anything or anyone to influence you more than the God who creates and redeems.  The 4th command about the sabbath has often troubled me.  But Hebrews 4 makes it pretty clear that when we rest from our own works to trust Jesus, we are keeping the 4th commandment.

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      1. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Here is a window into your psychotic god/

        "  As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end.  Return it to its sheath!  In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you.  I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction.  You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land.  You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken.  (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)"

        Mental illness personified. lol

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      2. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        "As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end.  Return it to its sheath!  In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you.  I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction.  You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land.  You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken.  (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)"

        Psychotic little god!

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    5. aguasilver profile image72
      aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The so called Ten Commandments were specifically give to the Jewish people, for the rest of the world there was the Noahid Code, which only ran to seven:

      Prohibition of Idolatry
      Prohibition of Murder
      Prohibition of Theft
      Prohibition of Sexual immorality
      Prohibition of Blasphemy
      Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
      Establishment of courts of law

      Most get broken by humanity daily.

      Christ came to FULFIL the law, hence you see the different denominations interpreting what is now their law according to how they read the bible they follow.

      In any case, the laws, commandments, were given to illustrate to humanity and the Jews that nobody can get to stand before God in their own righteousness.

      Which is where Christ came into the scenario.

      Read the rest for yourself, or ignore it, that's your right also!

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    6. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      psycheskinner: They are called the 10 "Commandments", not "Suggestions" not "Recommendations" not "Maybe followed".

      They are called "Commandments" because God was laying do God's Laws for the good of all mankind.

      Today society through government makes laws like "Speed Limit" laws. These laws are created not just for a few, but for all, just as God's laws were created for all not just for a few.

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  2. jtyler profile image60
    jtylerposted 13 years ago

    I think they should apply now as they did back then.  What churches have idols?

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    1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
      DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Any object made to resemble anything in the heavens or the earth or sea is considered an idol according to the Ten Commandments...So Crosses, paintings, statues or any of the various "objects de art" in a church today would be considered an idol.

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      1. psycheskinner profile image77
        psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        exactly: "You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

        So, Jesus, the Cross, Mary, any Saints or angels.  In fact, pretty much anything that is not purely abstract. Most churches I have been in have had pictures of humans, the lamb of God, almost always the Cross...

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        1. jtyler profile image60
          jtylerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think you're using the definition of idol correctly.  An idol is understood as an object worshipped as a deity in its own right.  A cross is not such an object.  Crosses are merely symbols.  Crosses really represent Jesus's cruxificion.

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          1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
            DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The definition is correct. The cross is indeed a symbol. A symbol of a torture tool used man to kill his own deity. God never said that objects that are symbols of him are acceptable. He said don't make any image...

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          2. psycheskinner profile image77
            psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That is not what the Commandment says. There are a lot of versions but they are all basically the same.

            The most popular US Bible is probably the KJB.  It says:

            "Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: "

            I don't see what I am getting wrong about that? Basically: Do not make images of anything that exist on earth or in heaven.

            It says what it says.  So I am confused--if the Commandments really are seem as being context free and as correct today as when they were first received...

            Why do most churches not follow this one?

            I will put aside the issue of the Cross, although it is an image of a thing that actually did exist.  The example of people, saints, sheep, Christ and angels seem fairly clear cut as a no-no?

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            1. Rochelle Frank profile image93
              Rochelle Frankposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I have wondered why the holy ark of the covenant, the container of the commandment tablets, had graven images of heavenly winged beings on top of it?

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              1. psycheskinner profile image77
                psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Um.  Good question.

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            2. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              once again context.  Ex 20:4 and 5 have to be combined or when added we get 11 commandments. So in context i will purport the following:
              You shall not make any images that you bow down to.
              I mean come on people.. is the image of an eagle a breaking of the ten commandments or an sculpture of the Eiffel tower? no. There's no reference to a painting or a ceramic vase decoration. Its a graven... so that must mean something graven or carved - as strongs suggests and image means idol - as strongs suggests. If i make a painting of jesus on the mount - does it break the 10 commandments? no.
              In these days, idols were 3D, they were carved out of wood or fashioned in metal and they were made to be bowed down to. The thing that breaks the commandments is the bowing to the graven image.
              The cherubium are fine on the ark, because a) the tabernacle was a representation of heaven (deep study) and the cherubiums were not worshiped. Only the high priest saw them ONCE a year. They were kept behind veils, in the holy of holies, the third room in the tabernacle, of which most of the populace of israel was not even to go into the second room.
              Again the worshiping of the images is the kicker.

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        2. DoubleScorpion profile image76
          DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You are correct!!! But the "christian" will say that you are wrong, because if not then they are wrong. They have to twist the meanings or use the "saved by grace" argument to justify themselves.

          I have a Hub about the ten commandments that was actually a paper I wrote for a class I was taking.

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        3. Eaglekiwi profile image73
          Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          There are some less obvious idols too ,that seduce us all from time to time ...

          In other words, obscession with any hobby that takes us away from maybe a loved one or spending time with family.

          Television
          Sports
          Work (work-a-holic)
          Hobby

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        4. Jakob Dailes profile image60
          Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Actually, I believe it's talking about things you worship. So unless you're Catholic and worship saints or pictures of Jesus instead of Jesus himself, then yes, it's a sin.

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          1. profile image0
            Sherlock221bposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            This was one of the issues at the time of the Reformation.  When the Church of England broke away from the Church of Rome, the church buildings went through a dramatic change.  The stained glass was smashed, the painted walls were whitewashed, the statues of saints were burnt, and Christ was removed from the crucifix, turning it into a cross.  However, from the late nineteenth century, all of these images started to make a comeback in Anglican churches, and now they resemble Roman Catholic churches again.

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            1. Jakob Dailes profile image60
              Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Go Martin Luther!

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          2. Dolores Monet profile image92
            Dolores Monetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Catholics do not worship pictures

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            1. Jakob Dailes profile image60
              Jakob Dailesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Then how come they fill their houses to the brim with paintings of Jesus in every room, and do certain prayers when they go by them. And then if they find something that looks like Leonardo DaVinci's Jesus in their biscuit or something, then it's a miracle straight from God and the entire world should know. If that's not worshipping, what is?

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        5. Richieb799 profile image74
          Richieb799posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Jesus in churches today looks more like Zeus on a crucifix - what does that tell you?

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    2. Jonathan Janco profile image60
      Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      All of them. All churches and all people worship money and ego. And Moses smashed the 10Commandments after talking 'god' out of annhilating the human race yet again!!!

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  3. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 13 years ago

    This is interesting, but it only seems fair to let the christians decide what they think the word idol means and then stay within the bounds of their commandment. It is their religion, after all.  If they say they are using the cross as a symbol, and not worshiping it as an idol, they are staying within the bounds of their understanding.

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    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Then doesn't that mean that each person, as an individual, can re-write whatever definitions are for their own use?

      Just a thought.

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      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        You might not have noticed this, but that is exactly what people do. Every day. With all words. You pick the particular definition you are using, at any given moment.

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        1. Cagsil profile image70
          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Hey Emile, many words have multiple definitions...um...well, in the American English language they do, but that doesn't grant anyone the power to change the definitions to suit their own needs. Otherwise, chaos would actually ensue. Only truly ignorant people change definitions, because they don't know any better or haven't been taught properly.

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          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's silly cagsil. They aren't making up a new definition they are using an existing definition. One of several that there are to choose from. The one they feel fits into the context. As I said. Its their religion, and well within their rights to determine what they think is correct.

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            1. Cagsil profile image70
              Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              roll Since it's actually of topic. I'm done.

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              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                It isn't off topic at all cagsil. The point I'm trying to make is that it is a matter of perception. And, in the final analysis, that is what all sin equates to. Your perception. If the christians don't see themselves as worshiping an idol, you can say they are all day long. They aren't breaking a commandment in their eyes, so they aren't sinning by any meaningful stretch of the word.

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        2. psycheskinner profile image77
          psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Of course.  But doing that while saying the Commandments have an absolute and inviolable meaning that should be obvious to the reader is some fancy footwork.

          That was why I was leaning towards: it was important not to do this after Exodus--but maybe not so important now.

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          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I get where you are coming from. I was simply pointing out that I don't know any christians that think they worship any idols, so they are staying within the bounds of their law. I don't see it as fancy footwork. Now, the adultery commandment might be a stretch for many.

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            1. psycheskinner profile image77
              psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I do know that some sort of very orthodox Jews groups actually do not permit representation art. I suspect some very orthodox Christian groups might be the same?  So some groups are taking this literally.

              But I don't see it talked about a lot given that it appears in the big 10. C.f. stuff that is well down the line up (e.g. homosexuality).

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  4. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    Okay so, I am going to dig around about what the word is that we translate as idol and what it meant.... because... it's curious.

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  5. TMMason profile image60
    TMMasonposted 13 years ago

    Yes we follow them, not necessarilly as the Catholics have change them to, but as we know we should. I do not worship Idols and I love the Lord God above all others. I also know that if follow Christs commandment I will in that following fulfill the commandments in all ways and all God other Laws.

    Christ said... "Love the Lord your God above all others", and, "Love all as I have loved you". If you follow those two commandments you are fulfilling all the laws of God in the actions required to follow those two. You do not lie, cheat, steal, or in any other way injure those you love. And in loving God above all others you place him first above all. As to idols, the Catholic Chuch is and has been a disgrace to Christianity, and I see very bad things in store for the Popes and leaders of that Org.

    As for the punishments to violating those commandments. Christ in his sacrafice to attain redemption for sinful man, purchased and annoited through his blood and sealed, the New Covenant, with us. In which he expressly stated that man has no right to judge another for their sins, that is the sole territory of God the father. If  man sins, then his is to be taught the wrong of his sin, if he accepts and changes fine, if not, then he will have to account for his own actions and choices when he is before the Father in heaven and his punishment will be soley in the Fathers hands. We are to tolerate the sins of the sinner, but not accept and practice that sin, and the sinner will earn his own wages... it is niether mine, nor anyones else place to decide that punishment.

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    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not to point out the obvious, but you condemn the catholics in one paragraph then say it is no man's right to judge further down in your post. Do you see any conflict there?

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      1. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        If  man sins, then his is to be taught the wrong of his sin,

        no. There is no conflict. If you kill someone, i need to show you where you are wrong and the rest is up to you.
        Since many catholic doctrines are obviously wrong we need to say this. Whether anyone agree or not, the need to speak out still exists.
        There also was no condemning.. no judgments was given.
        "the Catholic Church is and has been a disgrace to Christianity, and I see very bad things in store for the Popes and leaders of that Org".
        all fact.

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        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Totally disagree. But that's to be expected.

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          1. profile image0
            brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            then you are just unteachable

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            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              lol lol

              That is, so funny.  Are you here to teach? I wasn't interested in learning how to be a fundamentalist, or how to cultivate religious prejudice.

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              1. profile image0
                brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Just for the record the context of my message was in keeping with catholicism being a disgrace to christianity. If a person cannot learn that, they simply do not want to learn. The facts are recorded throughout history.
                Some other posts i read too, like many others she has all the answers and is not inviting any new thing, not even the obvious.
                    'cultivating religious prejudice'.. when jesus said beware the leaven of the pharisees; was he cultivating religious prejudice or just pointing out wrong paths, wrong practices, wrong doctrines? To tell you to beware the leaven of the catholics is not teaching you how to be a fundamentalist, indeed there is nothing fundamental about Christlikeness.

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                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Are you this Jesus? It is so simple to glean through something and find points to criticize others with. It appears to be considerably more difficult to use information to better oneself. Let the Catholics worry about the Catholics would be a more Christlike attitude, I would think. But, that's just how I saw the story.

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                  1. profile image0
                    brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    I know how you see the story, the story is not that way, however, were you teachable and not so reliant on your already formed opinions you would be a better person today with new information that caused you to grow and warned you from a danger.
                    If you don't wanna know things from christians, stop askin them. You have no idea what a christian attitude is. If i had said unteachable to a christian he wouldn't have started a war over it. He'd taken it with a grain of salt and pondered it, he ought not to have said, "Are you this Jesus?"
                    Stop arguing and lets leave this alone you only dig a deeper pit for yourself.

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            2. MelissaBarrett profile image59
              MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Just for the record, comments like that are one of the main reasons that people DONT like Christians.

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              1. profile image0
                brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                cry me a river.
                There was no sentence pronounced i just stated a fact. If she cannot see that catholicism is wrong, not according to scripture and disagrees with statements of catholic wrongs.. then, hence unteachable. I thought that maybe by pointing this out she might go hmmm but instead she just pulled up her britches and declared me a comedian.
                unteachable = not able to learn a new thing.
                good thing i did not swear

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                1. MelissaBarrett profile image59
                  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Are you secretly an atheist in disguise?  Because, if so, you have discovered the most perfect way in existence to drive people from religion.

                  Well done.

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                  1. Randy Godwin profile image60
                    Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    BO is chosen by god to give us the benefit of his incredible knowledge.  You must emulate him if you want to see Jesus.  lol

                    By the way, all 10 commandments aren't needed. Some cover others.  At any rate, they were around for thousands of years as tribal laws meant to keep peace among the people long before the christians made up their own version.

                    Don't believe me?  All people around the world have the same basic principles, even those not exposed to Christianity.  smile

                    I love what Twain had to say about Christianity after visiting Hawaii.  "I couldn't help but feel sorry for those poor people in Hawaii because they've lived in such a wonderful paradise all of their lives without ever knowing there was a hell." (paraphrased) lol

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                  2. profile image0
                    brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    As i stated before, i don't mind driving people from religion. Jesus is so much more and better and different than religion. Its a shame you can't understand what you read because i have said some awesome stuff. But, spiritual giant as you are, feel free to be turned away, you didn't address the situation anyway, but i read your opinion.
                    Since i am such a flop, lets see if you can get this right. What i mentioned about 'cultivating religious prejudice'  in the above post. Do you agree or not agree?

                    Randy you forgot to mention that jesus trimmed the 10 to 2. 10 commandments if you want to be religious - 2 if you are spiritual.
                    You don't have to emulate me but you would do well to ponder my interpretations.

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  6. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    Not actually worshiping a false idol seems clear.

    But to my reading of C2 and Deuteronomy*  it says not to make any representation of any earthly or heavenly thing thing--because it might tempt you to worship it as separate from God?  So whether you depict God, or some other being, or an animal--whether you worship it or not--representation art is a no-no?

    Specifically: Do not make "a graven image" "lest thou" "be driven to worship them".

    To me that says not to make representational images even if you don't intend to worship them, in case their presence should drive you to it?

    "Deuteronomy 4:15-19

    Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:

    Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

    The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,

    The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

    And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven."

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    1. TMMason profile image60
      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree whole heartedly, Psyche. I do not even kneel before a cross. My God is all around and everywhere, He is the God of all and everything, and just going in my yard or praying where-ever I am is enough for me, I do not need a symbol or idol.

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      1. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hi TM, are you still looking for the fairy at the bottom of your garden?
        Ya don't need a fairy to see how wonderful it all is. smile

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        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Knowing God is like quitting smoking.
          Pretty soon afterward your food starts tasting better.
          smile

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          1. TMMason profile image60
            TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            He is Great.

            I believe a lot of people have a very rude awakening coming one day. But that is okay, it takes some of us longer than others to find our way.

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          2. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I know the delusion intimately. smile

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          3. Cagsil profile image70
            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Works in reverse too. Knowing it's false, makes life more meaningful. lol

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            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              no it doesn't

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  7. knolyourself profile image58
    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    Then would guess you are a pagan.

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    1. TMMason profile image60
      TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What would make you think that knol? Or are you just stating that to the OP?

      No fairy, E. Have your fun it doesn't bother me.

      And hi E. How r u 2day?

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      1. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Just pullin your leg about praying in the garden. smile

        I talk to most of the garden's inhabitants myself. lol
        I hope you are having a good day. Mine just started, I have to find 2 good Saab 95's so I have a busy day. smile

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        1. TMMason profile image60
          TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well I wish you luck on that search, friend. And I know your only joking, bro. I take it in good stride, and I do tend to believe God has a sense of humor also. I am sure he always get a good laugh at you, and me, and all the rest of us. Other-wise I think we would all be all done by know.

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          1. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I'll grant you one thing..... if god made mankind he def has a sense of humour!
            A very dark sense of humour at times. smile

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            1. TMMason profile image60
              TMMasonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              lol Free-will is its own dark humor at times, E.

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              1. earnestshub profile image71
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Free will is a bit of a myth itself TM. smile

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                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  no its not

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  8. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    It seems the word in the Commandment translated as "idol" is "pasal" or 'thing made by carving".

    So we have two statements:
    1) Don't make graven images of things on earth or in heaven,
    2) Don't worship them.

    I guess most people see an implied "and" between them as one complete statement (Don't make images and worship them) --instead of two complete statements (Don't make images.  Don't worship images)?

    Apologies for rambling.  This has just been in the back of my head for a while.

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  9. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 13 years ago

    Actually, this question was answered in the New Testament by Paul. I thought I remembered something about it so I googled it. 1st Corinthians  Chapter 8. I think it basically gives a pretty good description of why main stream christians wouldn't see things as idols any more; and why some of the more hard core sects would.

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  10. TMMason profile image60
    TMMasonposted 13 years ago

    Because I am not perfect, only Christ was. And as an imperfect man I have opinions and judgements. No matter how hard I try not to.

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    1. Paul Wingert profile image60
      Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How would anyone possibly know if Christ was perfect? Unless he was a metaphore. No one knows much about him except what was written about him 30 years after he died by biographers who never met him, if he actually existed at all.

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      1. profile image0
        brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about what they are trying and failing to talk about. It goes like this, your wrong on all points - now go do some research .

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        1. parrster profile image82
          parrsterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          smile

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        2. parrster profile image82
          parrsterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          smile

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          1. profile image0
            brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            somethings are just so very hard to believe they were actually written let alone actually believed.

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  11. DoubleScorpion profile image76
    DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago

    smile And the debate goes as I expected. LOL.

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  12. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    And the debate takes over a thread previously about something rather more specific, as usual.

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  13. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    The thing that is wrong with the 10 commandments is that they are called commandments. smile

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    1. Paul Wingert profile image60
      Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What would be a better word besides commandments? The Jews had it easy with only 10 comandments where the Ancient Eqyptions had 40.

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      1. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Suggestions maybe? I don't know really. smile

        I don't like the idea of any command when there are so many better ways to get people to do things, especially if one is omni everything! lol

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        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          why not just call them laws

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      2. Jonathan Janco profile image60
        Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Guidestones arent a bad word. According to this, we just have to annhilate 95% of the human race. And if you look around, we're already working on it.

        http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm

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  14. profile image0
    klarawieckposted 13 years ago

    "My people! Listen! All pay heed! The Lord Jehovah has given unto you these fifteen...." (CRASH) ..."Oy....ten....Ten Commandments for all to obey!"


    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/5259887_f248.jpg

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  15. psycheskinner profile image77
    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    So where exactly did Jesus delete 8 commandments?  Because all 10 still seem to be in the Bible. The fact that Jesus also gave a set of (two) rules doesn't mean these are fully substitutable and replace the commandments (Dude, murder is okay now, Jesus said so!).

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    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      All of the original commandments are covered by the two. If you  could actually live those two, you'd never break the others.  And every time you break one of the ten, you break one of the two. I always thought the simplicity of it was rather profound.

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  16. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    The morals we live by are self evident and logical.
    Do not kill is a great idea. No one will come and kill you as payback, or hurt you or those you love. A caveman would have got that one, and to covert the other guy's female or steal his food would also be real easy to work out.
    If you look at laws you will see they are mostly set around what will work when we live together in a society.
    No silly unreadable religious tomes required.

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    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      nice grasp of the obvious. So you think the 10 commandments were not meant to apply to society? Obviously they were meant to apply to a society. If you look at the 10 closer you see they are in 2 groups. 1-5 god ward and 6-10 manward. If these 10 commandments were only for a society where there was no God, would 1-5 be god oriented? Well, 1-5 would have to be god ward IF that society were meant to know a God. So its not just an ordinary society but a God aware society. The book of Leviticus is a book about How to appreciate God.
      So "no silly unreadable religious tomes required" is not exactly correct is it as this society of God knowers, in order to know God needed to know HOW to do that very thing, so "a readable religious tome was indeed required" would have been a more correct sentence.

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  17. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Yes it's a shame you don't have a nice grasp of the obvious. lol
    The psychotic entity is a myth fortunately. smile

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    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That's all you got? lol - the same repetitive, useless rhetoric that is only the defensive self absorbed opinion of a failed religionist.
      That's a shame
      What else is a shame that even after all these 15,000 god slandering posts, if you let Him, He will wipe the slate clean and accept you back again.
      Now that's love, and i know this because i would have already sent you to the lake of fire.

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      1. Randy Godwin profile image60
        Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        "Now that's love, and i know this because i would have already sent you to the lake of fire."

        There is no doubt you consider yourself a good judge of how others should purport themselves, BO.  Isn't there something in your novel admonishing you not do this very thing?  Or are you exempt because you are so godly? lollollol

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        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The fact that i am not God and still prone to a few human reactions and some ways from perfect does not exempt me from any part of God. In fact i even told the truth. You see people, upon their salvation are not made immediately perfect, indeed there is a growing time. If you had've looked into the statement, instead of being so rash with your comment you would have noticed that i did point out Gods love. God will accept him (anybody) back, etc. Now the fact that I think he is reprobate; unchangeable, unmovable, forever circular in his adamant, murderous and psychotic thinking, but, God who may agree with me or not lol shows his long suffering, patient and gentle way to put up with such conversation and if the time occurs, God will not ignore but be there; yes that is love.
          And you missed this?
          Perhaps you spend too much time with the laughing faces, gloating over your own supposed intelligence.

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          1. Randy Godwin profile image60
            Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So glad you can admit to your faults, BO.  The way you admonish anyone not agreeing with you is not only judgmental but smacks of arrogance and ego.  Yes, I believe you are a christian, BO.  You have all of the characteristics I have grown to loathe over my lifetime.

            People like you do much more harm to your silly little belief system than well meaning believers can ever overcome.  I am mired among those such as yourself and have no envy for their fright of death.  But one good thing is they cause more misery for themselves than for others.  Dream on, BO.  lol

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            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Yes i can give the same way others put out, apparently its harder for others to take, but me, i am fine with criticism, in fact, In Christ, i expect it.
              I know i did not fit into your mold of christian and i figure that is because i showed no quarter or mercy in spite of giving evidence, pleading my case well, and even imparting some new truths to the playing field, which of course you also rejected and continued to harp on the old and bypassed only to point a finger at me and say,, hey you're not showing love! Yes i know, you will use whatever you can to make yourself seem good and that is your dream of which i hope this bit of therapy helps you sleep well.  You also see a mirror image of yourself. Did you like it? I guess not and that's a bit of a lol now isn't it.
              Indeed i could clear whole rooms in a single sentence and often i did.
              A reason ppl like me do harm is because you have set in your mind how a timid, peaceful, door mat christian ought to be and i am a bit different than that now aren't I. I have not cuddled nor soothed nor given compromised speech to anyone. I take back nothing i said and i hope that you can see now how my christian attitude, staunch and unbridled as it is, helps to apply the confidence and assurance that is so much a part of me. If you can't handle getting like you give then maybe you should adjust yourself. My defenses have been backed up, contradictions eradicated in all this i have shown i can give as good as i get which was part of my plan.

              Anyway, enjoy the rest of your evening or day, depending on what time it is wherever you live. Remember to eat healthy and exercise.

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              1. Randy Godwin profile image60
                Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                HA!  Do you think I am bothered by your nonsense, BO?  You are your own fan club it appears.  lol  You boast and strut like you've actually proved something somehow. 

                And you are wrong yet again, BO.  I don't get angry with your ilk.  And I also don't look at all believers as timid and afraid to defend their gods.  They too feel they have a god-given right to judge others because they do not think as they, god's chosen, do.  You are nothing special, as far as that goes.  Seen one, seen 'em all!

                No, you are merely humorous to me and only dangerous to those who take you seriously.  So you take care now, ya heah!  smile

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                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I can live with that. It was never really fun talking with you anyway. The snake is a good av for you.

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                  1. Randy Godwin profile image60
                    Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    The corpse works well for your avatar too, BO!  lol

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                2. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes i think you are greatly bothered by everything i say and why should you not be? You say i boast and strut when again it is the mirror image of yourself that you see and dislike. Angry, oh yes you do get angry and you think that BY he's bested me again! well i'll just throw some quick assumptions out a lol face and that'll be that! and continually you are also wrong in this area.
                  "They too feel they have a god-given right to judge others because they do not think as they, god's chosen, do" This is a bold and boastful assumption on your part and shows total lack of understanding. It is both an immature and unreasonable thing to say. First you use judge in the wrong context - after so many posts about it you still don't understand it and then you go on to puff yourself up by thinking you know how gods chosen ought to think, which clearly, you do not.
                  After reading your partially informed hub about the star of Bethlehem which you neglected to mention that the:
                  "Matthew 2:9   ... and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was."
                  Tell me, how does a star stand over where the child was or go before them?
                  yesss the serpent works well for you

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                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Funny. I thought he pegged you quite well. smile

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                  2. wilderness profile image89
                    wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Matthew 2:9:

                    "how does a star stand over where the child was or go before them?"  It does not.  The statement is obviously fallacious as stars do not move in that manner.   Whether that is due to intentional lying or to ignorance is unknowable, but it is still fallacious.  Will you now claim:

                    1.  God can do anything - the star circled the earth at 1000's of times the speed of light and did actually move in violation of physical laws.  OR

                    2.  I do not understand the TRUE meaning of the quote and have taken the literal meaning instead of the (oh so obvious) allegorical meaning of... OR

                    3.  The quote is out of context and does not mean what it says.

                    Surprise me - which one?  Or is there actually something new this time?

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                  3. Randy Godwin profile image60
                    Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    HA!  You cannot anger me, BO.  I actually read your posts for the humorous statements you make.  I pity those who see a good example in your actions and boasts.

                    Apparently you did not read my hub completely or you would see where the anonymous writer, who penned the fictitious book of Matthew, used Haley's comet and a visit from the Magi, which happened many years after the supposed death of Jesus, to instill interest in the story.

                    In fact, there are no know NT books actually written by any of the supposed "according to" apostles or followers.  All written anonymously.  Care to prove me wrong, BO?

                    Your King James Version was translated by men who had been told what could and could not be used from the ancient texts available at the time.  They changed many things to suit the Puritans idea of what the novel should say.  You probably did not know King James himself was a homosexual and deviate in his own right.  lol

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      2. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        How in hell can one slander a myth? lol

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        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know but i enjoyed writing the sentence smile even though i had a tough time believing it was actually true. I can't imagine the disappointment you must have gone through when i think about many of your past posts. It's a shame, i mean, i think i have a better life now than it could ever be... but i digress i suppose.
          sorry you missed the bigger picture but it didn't fit into your hate and murder psychotic rantings smile so i guess you turned a blind eye so to speak. It happens, whoda thunk God is real... i was surprised, i guess you had your fair share of those too.
          anyway, perhaps others will benefit from what you missed and that is just as good to me. I never tire of mentioning the wonderful greatness of the depths of Gods love toward all people everywhere, no matter what they have done, forgiveness of sin and a wonderful life IN God awaits all who just have faith. (of course, experience moves us on into greater faith) I wish i had done this years ago, in fact i wish i had been indoctrinated because i wouldn't trade my life with Christ for any of my past life even if it were increased 100 (had to change than from 10) fold.
          This might interest you... i insured my electric scooter as primary vehicle and my miata as a collectors car and i got both insured for 650$ canadian - i'm guessing currency is par. Hey, lol a woman i know has a mint 85 jaguar, she took it in for collector licensing, she had a rocking mp3, cd player in it and they refused her... what a drag. Lovely car though.

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          1. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Nothing you say is of any interest to me brothery, you put words in peoples mouths, and are happy to handle the truth like a real christian! lol

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            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              That's an interesting thing to say, "i put words in peoples mouths" I fail to fully understand the meaning of what you said... could you elaborate please.
              Its also a shame because you of all people need to hear the reality about what you misinterpreted your whole religious career. The words are all over the place, not just by me but others as well. You have been seriously shown to have wrong assumptions about the context of the bible and its intentions. I do hope that one day, someone strikes a cord within you or you allow the possibility that there is a truth that is opposite to what you report.

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              1. earnestshub profile image71
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Twist the bible anyway you like............... psychotic writing is still only written by psychotics.

                Plain as day to any person who can rub more than a couple of brain cells together I would have thought.

                Of course you can indoctrinate some people as easily as hypnotising chickens. lol

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                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting, i would have thought that any person with more than a couple of brain cells would respond in a correct way when being shown their understanding is wrong, but i guess hypnotized chickens can be on both sides of a fence.
                  As to psychotic writings, well that has been frequently debunked. In a battle of who is hypnotized i'm thinking you take the cake on that.
                  And how do you arrive at twisting when other bible passages back up and put into proper context the data arrived at? Twisting is when people make sloppy interpretations, is it not?
                  Anyway you sidestepped a question once again to put in your two brain cell post. Honestly, nothing you say is of importance too, i think, anyone around here. How could it be? It's just your sloppily misinterpreted opinion about something you both failed at and completely  misunderstood. If only you'd have realized that its not works that endears us to christ and that our checklist of failures and successes isn't the key. Its our devotion to God and our thankfulness and appreciation of Him that bring us into a deeper relationship and deeper relationship is what Christianity is all about. Jesus said, "if you love me you will keep my commandments".

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              2. earnestshub profile image71
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Wow, now I had a religious career? lol

                Is "the word that is all over the place" just junk you repeat from the one link you copy and paste from?

                Or do you mean the endless scripture that you leave here  like dogs droppings?

                Or are you referring to the smarmy personal abuse woven in to every one of your posts?

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                1. profile image0
                  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  wow, none of those.
                  again context... "The words are all over the place, not just by me but OTHERS AS WELL". lol you read like a mule. Now that we have established you read like a mule we can just say that you read the bible like a mule too and if you read the bible like a mule then, as has been proven, your interpretations are indeed sloppy, which, if psychosis were not your bread you would be able to ponder fairly and equably and reach some rational conclusion, but chances are you misread this post also.

                  You CLAIM 30yrs of bible muleage. Since christianity is a career activity can we now also say that you had no career, if indeed 30yrs of muling around.

                  Yes i do know a lot of scriptures, as per your assessment of them even dog droppings would do you good.

                  the smarminess of my posts is only what you give, back at you. I indeed said a while ago both that you are only here to destroy and also if you turned yourself around i would probably be your best brother. So can we also say, that you cannot even attain to the fleshly love of humanism? You show no love either, or from day one to others in this forum; shall i show you love or would that just be a$$ ki$$ing? You are far beyond love from me but there is one who loves you still.

                  Stick to cars bro

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  18. vtwilli profile image79
    vtwilliposted 13 years ago

    True. Christians have even adapted the cross... and its an idol. It was originall intented to serve as a reminder of what happened to our lord. The Ten Commandment or the Law of Moses was sent to prepeare us not to sanctify us. I actually wrote about this exact subject in a piece called "The laof the land vs. The Law of Christ" Check it out

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  19. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Could this be the new way to beat religion and wipe out the tea party??

    http://beforeitsnews.com/story/818/716/ … _U.S..html

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    1. profile image0
      Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The way to beat it? That may be the reason for it. I'm going to have to do some research on that. If true, it's troubling.

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    2. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is why its so very comforting to know that Jesus healed "all who came to him of their sicknesses".
      I'll take my sickness upstairs and behold the miracle.

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  20. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    You picked all the wrong subjects again bro, you should give up your career of flogging religion on forums and go change the oil on your Mazda.

    Unlike your good self I can do more than one thing in a year and have managed to learn while my life goes on.

    I have many other skills just like a real person, so I actually know more about business and psychology than just cars. lol
    As for love, I have lots of it thanks! smile
    It's real love, not the accusing "you can be loved if" kind. smile

    It begins with relying on yourself rather than a demonstrably psychotic sky daddy. smile

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    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks i will change the oil when it needs to be changed but much like your posts, its not ready to change yet.

      if you read psychology like you did bible... all i can say is look out! You must have some whopper theories in that department.
      Your just a natural man learning natural things. I can only assume the love you have is dependent upon how you are treated, since you seem to vent enough anger here. Perhaps hub pages is an avenue to 'get it all out' and then when you are vented you can love those close to you.. is that psychologically sound?
      But then again i don't want to just point fingers... got another bible contradiction for me to solve?

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  21. earnestshub profile image71
    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Thanks for your interest. Yes I read and still read psychology with the same Thoroughness I read the bible, quoran, and workshop manuals. smile

    That is why I was able to own the automotive businesses not work in them only, I could read and learn to follow what was written very well.

    Track record is important brothery.

    The only track record I can see of you is that you flog religion on forums full time! lol

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    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Are you comparing reading mechanic manuals to reading the bible? Are you comparing a perhaps crooked company owner who pays little and overcharges to being a christian?

      mymy. There is no track record here, broken record perhaps.
      Yeah i wasted another 6 minutes of my day

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      1. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Where did the crooked company come in brothery? If you are implying that I had a crooked company that would be a new low even for you. smile

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        1. profile image0
          brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          just tryin to figure out why you say 'God never answered your prayers'.
          I know the problem is not with God because other people and myself get prayers answered all the time and we know that He is a prevalent force in our lives... so there you were a man spot on the mark with God for 30yrs, born again and doin it right... but yet here you are at the opposite end of the spectrum. And you can't tell me he's a myth because i don't buy that, that's not my relationship or others experience.
          What was so important that you couldn't give it up?
          Most people it is their careers or income.

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          1. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I know this may astonish you, but my business success was built on ethics that were way ahead of their time.

            I overpaid my emplyees, I paid them by ability not age, I promoted people who were any age or sex, I helped finance my employees houses, I gave one of my key employees a business for his birthday, and they all knew exactly what to give in return. Respect and honesty towards our customers, and to give the customer whatever information they needed to be safe and mobile free of charge and with real care. If we had the door open we were busy or flat out with every member of staff on the counter including the labrador. We ran for about 29 years like this in the case of one business.
            Nobody left, everyone enjoyed the day, I could wander off and do something else.

            I know many successful businesses that work on the same principals. One in North America has not laid off a man in 100 years while others flounder.
            Don't talk to me about business you are well out of your league, I have had 11 of them.

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            1. profile image0
              brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Well that does sound extremely above board. kudos
              I completely admonish in a positive way, treating others better than oneself. Giving is not something new to me as i also have done well to others, even those whom are strangers to me. As much as i wish the world would embrace this fine quality, sadly it does not but to those who operate thusly, i would give a hearty pat on the back and cheerily congratulate them.
              It's delightful how you go to lengths to point the good things about yourself. An excellent post and well written, detailed, some minor evidence,an enjoyable read. It took some goading however and you missed my question almost entirely but very well done.

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  22. DoubleScorpion profile image76
    DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago

    The "real" Ten Commandments as per the Bible:

    Exodus 34:10-28

    10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you.
    11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.
    12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you.
    13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.
    14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
    15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices.
    16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
    17 “Do not make cast idols.
    18 “Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
    19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.
    20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
    21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
    22 “Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.
    23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel.
    24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.
    25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.
    26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God. “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
    27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
    28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

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    1. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

      The donkey was a useful animal it carried burdens and people. The donkey has interesting habits; it is a very stubborn animal and unlike the horse, it knows when to quit - a horse will run itself to death, the donkey when the burden is to heavy, will sit down. The donkey is also an UNclean animal which means it could not be sacrificed or eaten, therefore the lamb, an animal used sacrificially was put in the donkeys place. The redemption price was 5 shekels (numbers 3:47).  All FIRSTborns had to be redeemed. The firstborn MALE was important to  God, remember egypt and the passover. The reason the animals neck was broken was so that the family would not profit from the unclean firstborn animal,  things that died in their own blood (without bloodshed) were cursed (lev 17:11-14).
      This is the kind of typology that Gods people under the first dispensation (OT) live with. The unclean animal had to be redeemed by the SHED blood of the lamb (jesus) before it could be of any use, just like Gods people today, we need to be redeemed by the shed blood of jesus.

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    2. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      DoubleScorpion: God's "10 Commandments" can be found at
      EXODUS: 20: 2-17; the scriptures you quote from
      EXODUS 34: 10-28, are God's Laws also but I do not believe they are His "10 Commandments"

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      1. DoubleScorpion profile image76
        DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Then why does Exodus 34:28 end with the phrase "-the Ten Commandments"? Or does you bible read different than mine?
        Also if you read the whole chapter you will notice that it starts off with Exodus 34:1 "The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke"


        Exodus 20 says nothing in the text about being the ten commandments. Although, those are what is commonly referred to today as the Ten Commandments. Exodus 34:28 is specific in stating that it is the ten commandments.

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