Why does the church largely play down the relaity of Demonic attacks?

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tim kennerposted 14 years ago
I suffered a terrible attack from demon's, they attached themselves, oppressed and tormented me vigerously. I went to so many pastors and men of God only to find that they wanted nothing to do with the relaity and played it off as pschcological or other secular reasoning when all throughout the bible you see the reality of demonic possession opression and the like, Jesus dealt with it, why don't leaders in the church today, it is SERIOUS!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If the church said your case was psychological, that's what it is. Very few cases are labeled as devilish and in need of an exorcism. and those are the cases the church can't find any acceptable answer as why it happened.
  It seems your case is for a shrink, that's all.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, you have evry right to say what you did and I am cool with that. But there is relaity, thanks for the shrink reco, I'll pass, the best is faith and trust in the Lord Almighty, God bless you.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The best is faith in God, but one of Jesus' disciples was himself a physician. If there is an illness at the root of your problem (and the reality is that quite often feelings of demonic possession or oppression go hand in hand with biochemical imbalance), it's no sin to seek appropriate treatment along with prayer and counseling.
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  kessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Will the devil cast out himself?
  
  You in the wrong place.
  
  Once you remain in there you will have NO DELIVERANCE.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Kind words, wors of faith... NOT! You are not speaking from experience, but thanks
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hi Tim.
  
  why do you think you were attacked by demons?
  
  that is unfortunate that the same people who instill these fears in you do nothing to help rid you of them
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Heres what i did, i suffered tragic loss, came to know the Lord, got very close and then pulled back and went back to my vomit(sin) as the word says a dog always returns to his vomit, I did this many times, I was called to evangelize and as stubborn as I am I resisted much like Jonah, I am no prophet but I was called to do something for God and I chose selfish ambition and sin instead of doing what God called me to do so I got His wrath, this was His way of allowing me to experience suffering and realize that He means business and that I am on a tight leash.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  now that sounds very familiar....
  Tim, if I may, demonic activity generally denotes you pressing close -that is tuning into the Spirit.
  I myself went through a long period of desert and only recently came out of it. Perhaps this attack is to prove to you that indeed, that which is in you IS greater. Look at it -and everything- from His perspective. I once told someone that and realized myself that the greater One was MY Father. I am HIS son and the One who spoke me into reality IS my brother.
  Changed my entire perspective.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are the devils still attatched to you?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Notice how even alleged men of god don't really believe what they preach?
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for that, you sir hit pay dirt. Those that are holier than thou. I was attending a church in Upland, Ca and was a guest and because I fear not and do my best to be transparent I shared my situation with the head pastor only to become a leper within minutes and feel like a 5th rate citizen, and they are leading flocks, wow!
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  Team Wisemanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Tim, I had went through the same situation. It is a crazy but very real ordeal. I also found that it was downplayed. However I was lucky my wife knew a true person of God that delivered me. The demons were literally trying to murder me with my own hands! I have noticed, however, that the Catholic Church runs the show on this stuff. They have the most experience, yet are the first to now downplay demons. I think it has a lot to do with fear, doubt and lawsuits. The world now has names for demons such as A.D.D or skitzophrenia.<<(sure I spelled that wrong) We now pop pills to comfort the demons inside us, and if that shuts the demonic influences up, why should the church step in the governments way. All in all, I believe Satan has plans too, and this is one of them. The biggest lie the devil ever told was that he didn't exist. Because if people believe him and his kingdom doesn't exist, then who will believe in the kingdom of God, right? Thanks for your honesty Tim. I take you very seriously and relate to your story very much! Team Wiseman
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'Satan doesn't exist. It's all in your imagination'
  The Devil.
  
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Google 'Derek Prince' and look at his books 'How to expel Demons' an 'Blessing or Curse' he also has teaching letters available for free on his site; derekprince.org, you will probably need to register, but it's free.
  
  My hubs have info about spiritual deliverance as well, or contact me via my profile email.
  
  This is not the place to discuss this, there are too many folk here who are having their strings pulled by demons, who seem to like to disrupt this sort of discussion.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Another gift, thanks. I so appreciate the guidance, some of the people who try and play it down don't realize how helpless of a feeling it is to be in these shoes when the suffering is there and God knows what the truth is, I have a sound mind, success and nothing has come easy for me and this was terrible, and many of my brothers, sisters and family pushed me away, swept the truth under the rug, thank you again.
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  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I'd hope they play it down because even most of them realise it is ridiculous
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  Royal Diademposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My brother if a person does not believe that the devil exists they will not and do not believe in God. However, there is something you can do that is to pray and fast, for yourself. The Bible states.
  Mark 16:16-17 King James Version
  16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be damned.
  17. And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues.
  
  So the problem is not with you, although I have had Christian, counselor because after the spirits have been cast out, your soul will need inner healing, and that where a counselor comes in to bring healing to the soul.
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  Alessia Amnesiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Vigerously should be vigorously.
  Relaity should be reality.
  Pschcological should be psychological.
  Opression should be oppression.
  
  Now that I've given my spelling lesson for the day...
  
  Most people who are "possessed" do not know they are possessed. A pastor or "man of God" would be perfectly willing to help you if you were, in fact, possessed by a demon. In one of your other posts, you claim to be of sound mind. Most people who need psychological help do not know they need psychological help.
  
  My advice to you is to go and see a psychologist if you feel that you or anyone in your life is in danger.
  
  If you really feel that you are possessed, there are many "men of God" out there who will perform an exorcism for the right price. Hell, I would perform an "exorcism" for the right price. I personally do not think you are possessed. I personally think you are probably stressed out and looking for something else to blame your stresses on, but maybe an exorcism would bring you peace of mind. So good luck!
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  shazz01109posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a long history of charlatans, and people misrepresenting issues as being related to demonic possession. I'm not saying that you are a charlatan. My question to you are you a member of a particular church or denominational faith? Do you have ideas how these demons could have come in to your life? Are you willing to make any changes that the minister might suggest? Some denominations are more 'open' to demonic presence than others.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pastors?
  
  No, you need a Priest. You need to experience of the Catholic Church on matters such as this. You need to go to a Priest.
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  seektruthposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive me for coming upon this subject a bit late but it is of dire importance that you receive THE TRUTH!! Many of the churches are afraid to talk about some of these topics for fear of giving the devil his due. They are afraid if they start talking and teaching about some of these things, that too much attention will be given to the devil and people will then start to get out of balance with all of it. As a result, they have taken one end of an extreme position on all of this, and have decided to talk very rarely, if at all, on these kinds of topics. As a result, some of their flock have fallen into some very dangerous dark side waters and have been severely hurt or wounded as a result.
  
  Some pastors have also taken too much for granted. They think their flock should already know that some of these areas are dangerous to begin with. As a result, they very seldom ever teach on any of these topics – not realizing there are many out there who do not have the BASIC knowledge on these topics, or a full understanding of why these areas are so dangerous to begin with.
  
  The Bible says that God’s people will perish and go into captivity for having lack of knowledge – and not teaching the flock the basics of true spiritual warfare, and the different areas they should not be going into is a perfect example of all of this.
  
  Demons SAVOR being able to attack a Christians will and mind. If they can go further than oppression they WILL reside internally in the physical sense of that person. It is of GRAVE error to think that Christians are immune to demons just because they are believers in Christ. Many people afflicted with demons were Christians in the bible and there is NOT ONE scriptural piece of evidence in the Bible to say otherwise. Think about it this way...if the Holy spirit can reside directly next to a sinful and wicked human heart why can't a demon show his presence? We are "tri" beings just as God. We are made up of the body,soul[our mind,our will, our emotions] and our spirit. It's our SPIRIT the Holy ghost claims and changes and our SPIRIT is protected. Our MINDS and body are the battleground for jesus's truth or Satans lies. PLEASE research spiritual warfare and you will understand how this makes sense and how NOT to be afraid because we ARE given weapons by God to do battle through His name.
  How sad it is that people on here either don't believe in Satan[so they are obviously not Christ followers because they are calling God a liar.] or they want you to be co-dependent on a priest. WRONG ANSWERS! That is not my own opinion..that is the Bibles. Jesus would not have given us the armor of God if it wasn't in our scope of practice as a true Christian to engage in battle. We can fight them as long as we call upon the power of Christ and have FULLY surrendered to him. I speak from experience!
  
  One of the biggest lies Satan WANTS people to believe is that he himself doesn't exist...nor his cohorts. After all..how can we fight something that isn't real? He also wants us to believe we are helpless against him and his army if we do recognize him. [relying on a priest for example..that's nice but only if you find a rare exorcist down the street who isn't practicing FALSE doctrine.]Jesus said nothing about having to have such an anointed person of any kind to help drive away demons. He expects his disciples to be able to do so under his power and authority..plain and simple. His words are simple, why can't we just trust them without making everything so very complicated. Why can't we just stop being in denial and ignorant !!That's what the devil wants after all so people will become quickly frustrated and give up readily. He wants confusion and falsehoods so we lack confidence in our Lord. He also wants us to rely on PSYCHOLOGY [new age movement for example] so the more confident and positive we are the less we will need God. Satan doesn't expect us to attend the church of Satan so as to allow him into our lives. We make him out to be too small by doing this. On the other hand we make him out to be too big by fearing his power for he is not a God and his powers are limited, only being that of what God allows because of our free will.
  I am very fortunate for attending a wonderful Baptist church who's pastor specializes in spiritual warfare and this is so very real you could set your watch by it. I found some excellent further info. on the matter at Bibleknowledge.com[ under spiritual warfare.] I will say a prayer for you as well for this is a HORRIBLE thing to go through.
  ~sister and soilder in Christ, mother,nurse,artist
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Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago
You have all the power in you that you need to stay off negative influence and energy, whether it's thoughts, or perceived demons. Church leaders don't want to have to deal with "the devil." They become a part of the problem because they fear. Fear is what feeds this negativity.

If your brain is going through some biochemical swings, (we all go through this) then it can be more susceptible to negative energy. You clean up your body and brain and give it what it needs, and make some corrections emotionally and spiritually and you are in control again. It's not easy, it isn't convenient, but it's better than depending on someone else to cast out the negative stuff when all they do is add to the fear.

You have the power to correct this within you. That's what Christ tried to teach us over and over.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you my friend.
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Depends on the church
The Pentecostal movement does not play down Spiritual warfare
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Same question as SirDent.

And

Did any of those Pastors lay hands on and pray with you and continue to counsel you, etc.?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of people have childhood experiences of "the laying on of hands" from Pastors!
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  geez you're here too braying like a donkey again about stuff you know absolutely nothing about... get a life dude
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know a lot more about religion than you do obviously, and I have enough sense to see through this type of weak kneed crud!
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Len Cannonposted 14 years ago
So where did these demons attach to you?
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good question, it started subtly, with tiny footsteps on my bed at night, then little hands pressing down on my blankets, then cold spots, then my lower left leg, they wrapped around my leg, this may be hard for you to understand if you havent experienced it but it is true as God knows I am telling it exactly as it was. They used my clothing as a weapon of torment, misery is being kind in describing what i went through.
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  Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds a lot like sleep paralysis:
  
  <snipped>
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  yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, this sounds A LOT like sleep paralysis. It's worth looking into.
  
  On another note, in the middle ages much was done to release demons from people, and much of what was done often harmed those who were said to be possessed ...
  
  and one other note ... epileptic seizures were once thought of as demonic possessions - thankfully, we've learned a lot since then.
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what is this with sleep paraylsis? Do you have lips? You don't understand because you have never experienced what I have, God knows what I went through was entirely spiritual and a real as you are, period.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your description earlier sounded like cats from hell or something! I'm not mocking at all! Remember this-----greater is He that's in you (if you're a Christian; and greater is He anyway!) than the Adversary.
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  Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ^ Whoever snipped that link is an idiot, this was not meant to be self promoting but was meant to offer information to somebody who is apparently in a lot of emotional pain, good job guys, use some common sense.
  
  I also notice that certain links on this thread http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/31428 and many others are not snipped, favoritism towards certain established hubbers perhaps?
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Sleep_Paralysis … _Treatment
  
  I read this pretty awesome hub, its not mine so Im pretty sure I can reccomend it, perhaps this will help you some? I know it scary, happend to me before too...
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  Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  PMSL
  
  Nicely done DM, Nicely done!
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I got your back.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Resist the devil and he will flee. I asked above if the devils are still in you. As near as I can tell, you didn't answer the question.
  
  Man cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeeds out of the mouth of God.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i don't mean to sound rude, but do you have a cat? sometimes mice come out at night and crawl on people and even chew on their hair and stuff. it seems to me if demons were targeting you, they would be more bold and menacing about it, and show themselves. if you really need spiritual advice, maybe try another church? do you need a priest to go to your house or something? they do that in the movies anyway.
  
  hi Unchaned Grace.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, Cosette. How are you? Just meandering a bit, really. You?
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is better than anything DC Comics could come up with!!! I fell off my chair laughing!
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tobey100posted 14 years ago
Maybe the Church is possessed.
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  Marliza Gunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol..
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
The only demons I know of are atheists and liberals. The only way to defeat them is to never watch cnn, msnbc, abc,cbs and nbc. Don't go to public schools, coffee shops, art gallaries and discos. And never, never, never marry someone of the same sex.
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You left out your "Ronco Demon Scraper",or did you return it for a refund?
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h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago
I do believe spiritual warfare is more prevalent than we realize. Keep praying, and please look for an open Bible church. You should be able to meet with a pastor who will pray over you and help you be free of this. Annoint yourself and your home with oil. And do not hesitate to remind Satan he has no power over a child of The King.
You can email me if you want, God Bless, Holly
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's more than some realize and much more than many will readily
  admit to. On average, H.A., many churches shun direct spiritual warfare and I've even run into some who are afraid to preach from Revelation. I won't fault a preacher who is a bit nervous about it, because it wasn't among the parameters God chose them for. Jeremiah wasn't Joshua and Elijah wasn't Ezekiel. They were each chosen for their strengths or even lack thereof so God
  could claim the glory in the transformation.
  
  It's not a case of "Wimp to Warrior" in two easy lessons. Or even three. It's a life's work and He won't put it on someone who He knows can't take the heat if He also knows they'll break down and not go to Him when slammed.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Unchained,
  Please realize what I suggested was not any different than what I (and others) do even when not under a direct spiritual attack. We pray, we seek counsel. Every home I have lived in has been annointed with oil and I am regularly annointed at the church we attend. These to me are everyday sources of stregnths.
  And most importantly, whenever I feel threatened I am quick to tell Satan to get out of my way that he has nothing over me.
  Holly
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you have actually read what you've written, yes? And, it does appear sane to you?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good morning Q,
  
  Even when you have hacked and altered my post, the truth is there. I have no doubt you will continue to chop, twist and spit on what I post. Maybe some sort of disorder on your part?
  And honestly Q, I have grown weary of you. Day after day, the same twisted insults from you. Blah, blah, blah.
  We disagree. With only your snide remarks and no hubs about what you believe, there is only more ankle biting and yapping to come from you.
  I am not interested. Write a flippin hub to state what you believe. Then your remarks may have substance to debate.
  Holly
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Holly, when people start talking about the invisible and undetectable at war, tossing oil on yourself, your home and then talking with the devil, their sanity is most certainly in question.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Am I to believe you are concerned for my sanity? Or am I to believe you are an authority on sanity?
  This from you is just blah, blah, blah. People who prowl the forum looking for those considered inferior just to attack them - that is some serious mental issues. Scouring the forums to take cheap shots on those who are different than you is a sign of prejudice and mental defect. Pot shotting verbal arrows can be done by a coward who won't state their beliefs definatively in a hub.
  Frankly, Q, I don't give a darn. But I confess, I am having a good laugh Holly
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Q)
  1103 posts
  Joined: 2 years ago
  Hubs: 0
  Followers: 6
  
  Says it all.....
  
  How long will they let socks pester the real hubbers?
  
  You are speaking about matters you have NO IDEA about.
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Unchained Graceposted 14 years ago
This subject alone is worth more than a few well researched Hubs. In fact, I may just do a few myself.

Any interaction in some churches with Satan is widely taboo as
many aren't ready to step into the ring as they have the misconception they'll be doing so alone.

Before even considering the subject of spiritual warfare, check yourself. What is your real motivation? Do you really think you're that badd to the bone that you can take Satan on yourself? Think of the questions you really need to answer for yourself. Then, you'll start to understand why many churches find other avenues to minister in.

They (churches) play down the reality of demonic attacks because if they embrace the idea even remotely, they have to be ready to address it directly which gets them into areas they are very uncomfortable in. I won't put a church down for it, because hardcore deliverance ministry and dealing with demonic attacks is not something many were called for. Secondly, since God fits the vision to the visionary, there are those who have been given the vision on a churchwide level for helping children read, feeding the hungry and many other very noble tasks.

Spiritual Warfare, Hardcore Deliverance Ministry? Not something
the average church attendee can deal with.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is a good post. Casting out devils is not for anyone who is squeemish or weak. It takes a lot of preparation to do so and most believers have no idea about it.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I am just thrilled I don't rely on you guys for help with mental problems!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have a new drill! We can give those problems a way out.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You still got it sneaker!
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It might be fun to watch, but who does the cleanup afterwards? Second, will this be with or without anesthesia?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Post it all on YouTube also while you're at it.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That might work except for I thought you were limited to a 10 minute video there and I wanna full length film for this one!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will be fine without anaesthetic as long as I am able to keep walking around thus occupying BOTH brain cells.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You got two? I'm jealous. Actually, according to the VA shrinks,
  if one brain cell can create multiple personalities, than two gives us six and since they pay service connected disability on one body, there will be five left out. Scary, huh?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry for the delay... I was walking. Yep if I had another brain cell I would probably be scared.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't, either. Actually, most of the time, I end up being my own worst enemy.
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fortunately I don't suffer from mental problems
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Unchained Graceposted 14 years ago
A Hubber just made the point of saying he wouldn't trust any of "you guys" with mental problems.

Frankly, I would have to agree 100% because I myself wouldn't trust anybody period when it comes to some of the things I've been known to conjure up. That includes pastors, ministers and
a few Deacons thrown in for the sake of amusement. See, when I got back from Nam, the first thing those clowns did was to put our unit into a room with four civilian shrinks. I came out wearing the tag of "Homocidal Sociopath" because of my MOS and
participation in a few operations here and there. Because of that, those tags followed me through the VA and caused me problems. So, no, there wouldn't be a soul on or offline I'd trust.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your service and sacrifice. I am sorry you were labeled.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Hello Tim.

This may not be my best response, but perhaps this might shed some light:

Over the course the late 19th-20th centuries, ministers, priests, pastors began what they referred to as the regeneration period of spiritual awakening. As such, countless people began to 'hunt' in their homes, their schools, etc for demons. these acts were acute in the witch burnings of the early puritan (neo-protestant) colonies in the New World.
After years of teaching on it, and entire culture was effected by what some called madness.

For about fifty years, it ran its course and soon diluted into a hush. In the early part of the 21st century a new generation of ministers arouse out of the old protestant movement calling themselves the 'harvest generation', chock full of supernatural power where they could heal a person by punching in the stomach or shaking them until they fell down. Again, the spark was ignited that fueled the new movement of demons and now adding angels to the mix. That the 'great war' was on between the two and we humans were the one's caught in the mess.

From 1953 until 1993 the harvest generation proved to be nothing more than wind bags.
Meanwhile, because of political power and social structuring, europe banned the speaking or consulting on the issue of demonic possession for fear the neo-protestant group would again emerge.
(more specifically Catholicism who would have been weakened greatly by such a movement).

From 1993 to present, the idea of demonic possession still lingers heavily, but ministers shy away because the old 'minister almighty' concept has faded from peoples minds. They are realizing that the power is not in the minister -though millions still do follow accordingly (ie Bennie Hinn, etc).

However, demonic possession is real.
Unfortunately, most people are not taught how to deal with them, since they are a spiritual thing, not a physical or logical entity per say. ministers do not accurately teach their flock in order that the flock may protect themselves. rather they crow and quote about the 'tools' or 'weapons' but never actually teach people how to use them effectively.

A shame really, because spiritual power is more visible in our world today than ever before in human history.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
I would say if you had a spiritual attack:

first, do NOT engage it in the sense of talking to it.
conversations with demons only leads to you going deeper down the rabbit hole (i.e. Lucifer: Eve).
second, your spirit needs Power from the Most High.
three days fasting, prayer & meditation helps greatly!

Remember, demons do not run away from the 'spoken word' but TREMBLE from the Power of the Word.

When Y`shua 'cast them out' He didn't get all up in the hype, he simply exercised His Spiritual Authority and the demon had no choice but to submit to Him -same as you or I.

Also helps to clean out your heart, mind, body of anything that darkness are attracted to.

here's my email if you need help:

myneedmyseed@gmail.com
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sir are awesome and your words are true and the time you took to comment I sincerely appreciate. When I open myself up, as i am transparent and share this with people the vast majority dismiss it as all these different things boy they don't even realize how real it truly is and that in a heart beat they could be caught in the fly trp I was, I pray they never do but just as it happened to me it could happen to anyone. I will email you, God bless you and thanks again!
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The Paulposted 14 years ago
You know what doesn't help with "demonic attacks"?

Encouraging the belief of person who thinks they're suffering from them that demons exist.
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  EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Tim, if you're still reading this thread I would suggest that you check out what was posted earlier about sleep paralysis (which I'd never even heard of before). It really does sound as though that's what you might have.
  
  Speaking for myself personally I'd say that if I was suffering from the symptoms you've got, I would be far happier just knowing that there was a rational explanation for what I was going through. Have you seen a doctor (I mean a GP not a psychiatrist)?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The 1/3 of the angels who fell from Heaven are, along with Lucifer, the "demons" that seek to devour.
  
  If one believes in the Holy Ghost and the angels of God, it only follows that they'd believe in the Adversary and his minions.
  
  ...I'm of the opinion that a Christian can indeed be attacked by demons, perhaps even have demons "attached" to him/her; but not possessed; because, once possessed, they're simply that--taken over spiritually, until and unless they get delivered from them.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, and once you believe in them they come after you.
  
  But that's because we're afraid of the dark, and we'll impose whatever monsters we decide to imagine on it, and they will come for us if we believe in them firmly enough.
  
  Once upon a time the monsters were real. Once upon a time there were things in the dark that hunted us. Not anymore. We're the big badasses now, but we still remember the fear. It'll take whatever shape you give it, but you don't have to give it one.
  
  It's no coincidence the people who are fixated on spiritual warfare are the ones always complaining of demonic attack. Do you imagine these great and terrible devils are so stupid they only prey on those most able to defend themselves?
  
  You don't have to be afraid. We kill and rule the monsters now, but nothing, not even your mythology and magic, can protect you from the phantoms of your own imagining as long as you insist they're real.
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Brother Donposted 14 years ago
Hi Paul,

Most people will mock what they don't understand and so reading through many of the replies, I was unsurprised by them.

Are you a Christian? Lot's of churches will have nothing to do with it because they have what the apostle Paul calls 'A form of religion, that denies the power thereof'.

Most people mock issues such as demonic attacks etc as they themselves fear anything that they cannot understand of control. If you are a Christian, then you do not need a pastor to pray for you or lay hands as the power of the risen Christ is in you and all you need do is stop fearing and rebuke such spiritual foolishness in the name of the risen Lord Jesus - Get a bible and turn to the book of Luke, chapter 10 verses 17 to 20.

Be warned though, if you have no relationship with God then do not try and deal with spiritual matters your self otherwise you may end up no better than ther sons of Sceva see the book of acts in the bible, chapter 19 verses 11 to 20.

If you want a church who know the power and the word of God and do not walk in fear of the demonic realm then let me know where you are and I am sure I could recommend some.

Remember, there will always be those who mock, because they don't understand and have not experienced what you experienced. The bible tlaks about people be blinded by their lack of knowledge and there rejection of certain types of knowledge - don't be one of them.

Brother Don

Check out this blog and some of the video links http://jeremiahandbrotherdon.blogspot.c … nying.html
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  tim kennerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Finally some wisdom, thank you. It blows me away how many people dismiss demonic activity and attcks as other things. It's remarkable, they are blinded by the same BS that many are blinded, even many in the body of Christ. I am doing something about that, I experienced what I did to bring awareness to my brothers and sisters, who better to help other than one who has experienced it first hand. One can do all the research on a subject, even speak intillectually but unless they have felt the hot breath of the devil they will trul never really know. Ney sayers that dismiss it as other phenomina just don't understand, i pray that they never have to weather the strom i did.
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  Brother Donposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry for the mistake on you name in my original response Tim
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope.
  
  And a good thing to! Fighting phantoms is, at best, a waste of energy better spent, and it seldom goes best case scenario. I hope Christianity continues the trend towards being a benign entity.
  
  But that's just the essence of a demonic attack, isn't it? It's something you can't control. It's some spirit or thing out there that you can't touch or interact with on anything but it's terms. You can't see it or know what it's up to. It has all the power and you've got none...
  
  ...but of course it's a psychosis, or a neurological or muscular defect, or a pathogen, or malnutrition. You can control those things, or at least predict, anticipate and understand them.
  
  The world is full of terrors and evils. And they're made all the worse when we don't understand what is happening or why.
  
  And that's what all this demonology and "spiritual warfare" and spookcraft is all about. Taking those things and making them mysterious, malicious, uncontrollable, and unknowable.
  
  As a race, we know better. We know what plagues us and how it works, and when we can't fight it, at least we've got the closure of knowing what's happening.
  
  Stop trying to take that away from people.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
@ The Paul,

that is not entirely true.
those -as you put it- fixated on spiritual warfare do indeed bring about a certain amount of their trouble. However, the entity of darkness, bad energy, yada yada is a real thing, as you are a real thing.
It is easy to dismiss the nature of the human being
but his nature will always be the original, not the desired manufactured ideology. You are spirit first, mind and body after.
It is that same part of your entity that drives you to live, to stay alive and be...
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If only you believed that you wouldn't be speaking of demons and darkness. Religions and myths are manufactured ideologies, arrogant(though often self-depricating) dreams that imagine us as special, beyond the world we live in. They declare themselves as such to anyone who has the heart to ask. It's why they're so useless.
  
  When we honestly looked to nature, the nature of things and our own nature, with the mind to understand instead of to declare how it should be, that's where the sciences come from. Many mystics want us to believe otherwise. The sciences declare their truth with the power they give us. God has yet to heal an amputee, but the sciences regularly perform such miraculous restorations.
  
  Our true nature is that we are fundamentally the same as the world around us. Our "nature" is electrochemical processors and neurotransmitters. We can monitor them, and alter their behavior, and the alleged mysteries that are human emotion and sensation change in response with all the predictability and reliability of a light and switch.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beliefs are strongly tied to brain chemistry. A lack of serotonin activity for whatever reason and there are many, will change a belief system entirely.
  Vasopressin levels in the brain causes parents to have totally different parenting methods.
  Scientific evidence has now been found in animals including humans, that what we do or believe is subject to variations purely from brain chemistry. As belief in a god can be achieved chemically does this mean god wants us to take mind altering drugs?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  perhaps but god is a healer. He takes sicknesses and infirmities and cures them. So you're wrong again mechanic boy. You must have some deeply hurtful feelings too plague the religious forums like you do. Was your daddy a priest?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No my dad was not a priest!
  Don't call me mechanic boy or any thing else unless you are a lot braver and bigger than you look! Personal attacks are easier than truth for you to handle are they?
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Should we be closing down hospitals and research clinics anytime soon?
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  gracefaithposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you don't believe in supernatural healing and you consider that it's existence means we should get rid of the types of healing we do more readily believing. Seems like God can't please everyone either way. It's a good thing He doesn't seek to.
  
  Grace and peace
  
  Fi
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Hmm, how interesting though, that one such as yourself, believing "neuro-scientology" would engage the conversation of something 'more'. Fascinating indeed.

The human mind is subjective to its environment, true.
It is also projective as well as reflective.
Indeed a superior complex system of transmissions from spirit to body, body to spirit.

molecule to atom atom to subatomic subatomic to nano, nano to singular elemental energy aka pure energy, which is the genetics of the human spirit.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps "neruo-scientology" is interesting to you. I, however, am uninterested, as I am reasonably certain you made up the term some time in the last twenty minutes and that it doesn't actually mean anything.
  
  Holy word salad, Batman! I doubt you can half the words in there. And I don't mean you're unaware of the correct definition. I mean I suspect that you don't even have any meaning in mind for them at all.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a great combo of words neuro with scientology. Scientology has it's own belief in another sky fairy! Have you read any of Ron.L.Hubbards claptrap?
  He was a fifth rate sky-fi writer who has a sky fairy and pseudo-science as well.
  I have to admit Scientology as crazy as it is, is no match for the biblical god for incredulous fairy stories though!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you suspect? please.
  if you can't bark with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
  i have zero tolerance for ignorant thinking, let alone scientific hypothesis that does nothing to engage or equate the true nature of humanity. It is such twisted and otherwise neurotic philosophies that have brought about human disfunction. Same as religion and any belief system that does not express the awesome, full measure and completely undeniable ability of any single human being to be and live and do as they were created.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and that would be....?
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
i find it , again, fascinating, that those who 'write' in these hubs about science -more specifically neurology, etc, still cannot comprehend the basic fundamental (for lack of a better term) principle of the human brain v the human mind.

- btw, the term "neuro-scientology" is my own, which I have used quite frequently outside the land-of-hub. But it points to the same thing as religion, a belief system that is limited by its own conjecture. As I told Cagsil, no more interesting or useful than eating large quantities of chocolate and taking a sh!te after.

Here is a human being in need and all you do is either criticize or inadequately attempt to stimulate your own ideologies with pointless rhetoric. Yet all the while he has a need.

surprizing no, disappointing, beyond indeed.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  'btw, the term "neuro-scientology" is my own, which I have used quite frequently outside the land-of-hub. '
  and you can keep it!
  It sounds like 'brainwashing'
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi tan.
  yes, that was my point in using it. They 'think' by flooding the brain with neuro-bunk and chemicals that it will 'fix' the problems of humans. what a bunch of bunk. From phenobarbital to lithium injection to electro-stimuli, it is all crap.
  If they had any understanding of the system they are engaging, they would stop thinking the way they do.
  
  new age, new scientology.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but nobody has an understanding.
  I totally agree that's not the way to do things, but which is the way ?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is because of the breakthroughs in brain chemistry that many have alternatives to lithium, and lithium has it's place too. It has kept a friend of mine in the game for 40 years, I survived cancer because of it.
  Your fairy is around to find the car keys for religiouis fanatics, and far to busy looking after the religious righteous to be bothered helping anyone else.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know what Earnest, you are the biggest lukewarm hypocrite so far in my 'hubivity'.
  what your 'friend' went through has nothing to do with you or this hub or the conversation.
  again, my point made -self conjecture, self indulgence, self ideology, self-gratification and the lukewarm acceptance of "well, that's just the way it is, but maybe something good can come of it".
  
  ps, i had a fiend as well on those med's mentioned. after 15 years of it, his body & brain suffered severe 'irreversible' damage.
  4 weeks of spiritual renewal changed all of that.
  
  it would be better for you to join the masses in the new cult (social networking) and play tag, you're not it... go back on the porch...
  
  cheers mate.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, phrases like "principle of the human brain v the human mind" sound so deep, but you make no effort to understand. You hum and imagine and read stories from other people who hum and imagine and twist it all to fit myths and convince yourself you've explored the truth when you've never even tried to find it.
  
  The human mind is an emergent property of the human brain, which is an intricate but wholly physical apparatus. Those people who would rather do the hard work of actually looking for the truth instead of engaging in the pleasant pastime of cooking up new-age woo have given hundreds of examples of how the emergent structure is consistently, reliably dependent upon the properties it emerges from.
  
  Cute.
  
  But neurology has produced life-saving surgery and the power to understand its consequences, and philosophizing and making up spirits has produced people huddled in the dark, paralyzed with fear of things they can't understand because they are wholly imaginary.
  
  Fans of world-salad often like to talk about how science is such a limited worldview.
  
  Frequently someone challenges them to give a single of example of something which can be discovered and known to be true which is not subject to science. Usually they don't bother to give any such example, and instead continue to string together fancy sounding words in an intuitive, almost artistic fashion that lacks any guiding meaning or message.
  
  Care to defeat my expectations?
  
  Here is a human being, who's mind and soul are emergent properties of his physical being, suffering from an unidentified illness of some kind which could in all likelyhood be either treated or at least understood and so rendered less terrifying.
  
  ...And here you are, trying to convince yourself your magic is real by making others believe it, trying to convince someone to stay in the dark, to stay ignorant of what ails them, to turn it into an unanswerable demon.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just reverse the polarity on what you said and you get nearer to the truth.
  
  The man in question has clearly stated that he is not unwell and that he fully understands the difference between a psychiatric or physical problem and a spiritual one, with demonic roots.
  
  You clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about on a spiritual level, you may know about psychiatric matters, but you fail to understand how believers view psychiatric solutions to spiritual problems.
  
  The man has come OUT of the dark, and is seeking to stay in the light by removing spiritual forces that have attacked him.
  
  Ephesians 6:12
  
  For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
  
  Until you can understand that, this will be a matter that you can have no useful input into.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Something religious people have such a difficult time grasping is that the world is real, and it doesn't care what we think. I doesn't matter how believers view the problem, the world isn't going to change to suit your mood.
  
  Your shamans and mystics have had plenty of opportunities to show off their effectiveness against what they think are demons, and they are sadly lacking.
  
  And of course, when their powers fail there's always some explanation... about how this demon plaguing you is far greater and more powerful than we realized, or how it has burrowed deep into your soul like a tick. Or maybe your faith just isn't strong enough, you're not really a believer, or the ritual would have worked.
  
  Exorcists are good for inflicting guilt and even more fear on people who are already afraid. It always sickens me that when someone appears in an online context with problems and credulity people are always ready to get god-points by sending them to one of those bastards.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and what do you know of exorcisms???? nothing perhaps.
  oh, wait, your using Catholicism as your defense???
  so you don't accept the religion, yet use that particular religious reference to explain your point????
  
  go back on the porch...
  
  cheers.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have only anecdotal evidence regarding exorcisms, so if you can trump that with clinical evidence showing that contrary to all the examples I have ever encoutered, it is actually effective, by all means, feel free to share it.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
ah, and that IS the question.
in my personal experience, the only way is the original, having experienced the other ideologies.

The fullness of Energy | Creator | Universe exists within each of us, to be and do exactly the same.
Perhaps on a smaller scale, but nonetheless identical and nonetheless purposeful.

The human being is so much more than most consider, more than most accept, ponder, believe or even attempt...
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's all the way round. Believing we're such a marvel is a delusion. We're frail beings who can be smashed by a car and killed with a bullet. No more than ordinary flesh.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, no love. We are so far from frail, it is universally astounding. we are far, far from ordinary.
  How I know that many are coming to this understanding, without religion, science, etc. all of those cults just prove more and more: We are so much more beautiful...
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  That's the point.
  The mind is mysterious. It makes some people just believe human beings are wonderful.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
and again, you inject 'religion' into the conversation.
I made no reference to it.

I did however point out that Tim has a need.
The solution provided? Medication.
typical.
Let's medicate the problem, subdue it or label it something else so we do not have to rationally accept what it truly is.

again human logic.

"God forbid" we should accept humans have a spiritual nature let alone a nature MUCH more powerful and acceptable than scientific, religious or philosophical ideologies. Yes, that make so much sense. so frail, so weak so unable...

no, more like nonsense if you ask me.
philosophical, cult-ish, self-denying nonsense.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't care what you call the claptrap you're spouting, it fits the bill.
  
  If you read carefully you'll find I didn't prescribe anything. Maybe there is a medication that will help him, maybe there isn't, not for me to decide. But if there is something that will help then your mysticism amounts to an attempt to deny it to him.
  
  Funny you should mention not having to rationally accept what things really are. You keep insisting on this spirit-flesh interface, or whatever it is you're on about... I think you're rather afraid of the fact that you are a very delicate bag of chemicals and can be very easily disrupted or destroyed. A simple blow to the head, a temporary imbalance in body temperature, any number of things could dramatically alter your ability to think.
  
  But hiding behind magical excuses for everyday occurrances can't protect you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you're still just as breakable as everyone else.
  
  Where is the power, if your philosophy is so much greater than science? What have you discovered? Have you halted the visions of any schizophrenics? Helped the victims of strokes to regain control of their bodies?
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  During the time I spent in Vietnam, the majority of our unit was wasted by a bouncing betty mine. Those of us left alive were taken prisoner by the NVA. We were severely beaten and questioned. My refusal to speak earned me the butt of a Russian-made AK47 in the face and the left side of my head. Thanks to the efforts of SEAL Team, we were rescued days later. There is a reason I took this introduction.
  
  Years later, as a civilian, I was forced into homelessness as the VA chose not to assist me with any shelter. Bear in mind I came out with a DD214 (Honorable Discharge) which means I had a right to their services.
  
  During this period of homelessness, I suffered three TIAs(mini-strokes which resulted in the temporary paralysis of my right side. Living in the woods alone at least two miles from any one.
  I made it to a local hospital who decided (throught their neurologist(s))that it was either a temporary block in the carotid artery and/or the evident damage (which was old) to the left side of my head. They had no answers. No solutions.
  
  The third and final seemed as if it were to be permanent as the results lasted for days until one morning around 0300. I wrote a Hub about that, but the sum total is with absolutely no science or medical assistance, my visit from Jesus that morning
  resulted the same day later on a visit from a pastor and his two assistants. Bear in mind absolutely nobody had ever come to see me for any reason.
  
  I could not speak, could not barely write and had serious problems walking. There had ben a time I played electric bass and keyboard fairly well. I couldn't even remember the basics with either one. As time and prayer went on, I met a real deliverance apostle (Bishop Kenneth A. Savage). The prayers resulted in me having absolutely no trace of those results in me
  at all which is why today I run Unchained Grace Ministries, LLC and Co-Sponsot the Holy Truth Veterans Housing Program.
  
  So, yes, the Stroke issue you speak of? Science did nothing. God did. I am living proof.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So why God favored you and doesn't favored others ?
  why some people have to cope with a lot of miseries for ever ? Are you better than the rest ?
  I think your Faith did it. Faith is strong. But It's not God. It's only you through your mind.
  Just think. If God did it to you, why not to others .
  I think you did it to yourself.
  The proof is, that you were the only one saved at that moment.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All I can do is relate what happened to me. Your opinon or position on it is yours. Like many others, I fought for the right of those to sit here and go on and on about religion and whatever. I've been to countries where support or criticism of a given belief earned you a deathsquad at your door. Was saw it in Colombia, Venezuela and in other areas. Your choice. Your opinion.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is a powerful testimony. I am glad I read it.
  
  Mar 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
  
  What made them afraid?
  
  Mar 5:16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
  Mar 5:17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
  
  Why would they ask Jesus to leave after such a great work had been done?
  
  The Bible says no man could tame this young man. Even with so many devils in him, they couldn't stop him from worshiuping Jesus.
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
Reality? Of demonic attacks? Well, I guess it is not crazy enough for that...
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
What sort of insult is that? Go back to the porch?
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
at any rate, now that the 'elite' have joined the moment, the purpose of this mans' hub was to seek assistance.

So, apart of all your personal ideologies, rhetorical comments and me being the a-list rude, straightforward, could-not-care-less-what you think- replies, how do you plan -exactly- to help him?

anyone, anyone????
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All I can really do is try to stop you from making a traumatic situation worse by adding to his belief that these episodes are dangerous phenomenon from an external source.
  
  If I succeed there, I'll have done quite a bit to help.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
unchained Grace,

your ministry sounds familiar. Or maybe there's just other similar ministries with similar names, I dunno...

anyway, have you ever been to Ellettsville Indiana, or is it possible that some section of your ministry has filtered to there?
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The second is more likely. There is a section which deals specifically as a prison ministry. There are 2-3 others, though
  the basis remains here in Maryland.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks. That's probably it. I know a Church there in Ellettsville (my cousin and her husband are the Pastors of it); it's a "biker" Church (a large percentage are bikers) and they have a prison ministry. I recall some reference to the term "Unchained" in their meetings. I've attended it once; awesome worship service and good preaching; would go more often if it were closer.
  Anyway, your Ministry sounds like it does a good work for the Lord; May God Bless you immensely in it!
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The Paulposted 14 years ago
It's great for you that you recovered, and it's terrible some of the things that have happened to you over the course of your life, but recovery from neurological damage happens, and it doesn't recognize differences in belief or lack thereof.

Furthermore, as the faithful are fond of saying "Everything happens for a reason." It would be a terrible thing for us to collectively look at mysteries like your recovery and simply give up, say that the only explanation possible is supernatural and beyond our control if that isn't the case. If there is a physical reason for your recovery, it can probably be reproduced, and if it can be reproduced the recovery of all stroke victims could be dramatically increased.

Thankfully, medical science at large doesn't believe in miracles. You would be mistaken to say that the state of the art has no answers regarding the differences in recoveries from brain or nerve damage. You'd also be mistaken to say modern medicine offers no chances for improved recovery from strokes.

No faith healer can summon up Jesus on-demand to cure those who otherwise have a poor prognosis, but maybe one day we can reproduce your recovery in everyone who suffers a stroke.

But there is no chance of that if we just give up on neuroscience and leave it all to prayers.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
My position is mine ,and yours is yours.

What Colombia or Venezuela has to do with it ?

That's not about religion. It's about political creeds.
The Catholic Church in those places sometimes support terrorists ,and other times government..
if you've been there I'm sure you know about it.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since you obviously speak from the enchanted position of non-involvement, Colombia and Venezuela were two of the many locations where we observed and summarily shut down deathsquads whic were hitting families and resident for non-compliance of a given issue. My point is simple. You reside in a country which allows you the inalienable right to voice your opinion. So, if I am to support that, I also have to understand there will be those who choose not to agree. See, I put forth no opinions. If you read close, I am just relating facts as they happened. What you make of it is on you. We were there. You were not.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  but i was there ! I have Venezuelan and Colombian friends ,and I visited those countries more than once !
  Argentina is just below.
  and yes i remember well when Americans where there .
  I'd rather not comment.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  At best, you were there as a civilian who observed different things. I didn't like a lot of what happened there or any other country where these things occur.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  By the way, the Catholic Church had no involvement in what was happening at that time. So, even if you choose to worship The Banana People of Wherever, a deathsquad is still a deathsquad and until you see the results of what they do, how can you realistically speak with any degree of credibility?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Catholic Church has a lot to do with politics in these countries.
  I think it's you who don't know anything about it.You were there under orders, I was living there.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My friend, the activity came directly from the rebels bent on using the pipeline as well as other key assets for the distribution of heroin and cocaine. So, again, I could care less about the Catholic Church or whomever. You were living there. Fine. I was under orders, We did what we did. Some people
  had issues with it. However, as I mentioned, these were just two countries where people had to be very careful as to how they worshipped and who the spoke to and about what what. Remember what the Colombian government was like in the early 90s?
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  Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Tantrum My Love/Hi Grace
  Grace, I dont know if you were Drafted or Joined the Military. Either way I thank you for fighting for me. I hate what happened to you when you came home. I really cant speak to what you went through on the battle field. But as man that has been tortured, suffered mutilation, and feels throbbing pain everyday. I know what it took for you to fight your way back to health. Only God could have saved me or you. I dont like what you say sometime and you dont like what I say most of the time; but I respect you.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Do you remember this was a thread about demonic attacks?
It looks like your possessed by some!
Some political devils !
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, that's your response to a statement of fact? Since when has anyone stayed on topic in these forums?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not arguing with an American, Latin American politics.
  and this is the religion forum, so you're way out of topic.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The only way it went off topic was when I used my own medical situation which had its origins in Vietnam to sustantiate a claim by another that God has no bearing in healing. From there, it got into this Latin-American thing as I mentioned deathsquads in those areas. Otherwise, carry on. I'm all ears.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I made a bet with another hubber as to how long it would take me to pull someone completely out of their little comfort zone.
  I actually ended up winning quicker than I thought. The agencies I was working for back then taught me more about mind control then anyone in these little bopeep forums will ever know.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Style and tone uncharacteristic of you. Or at least of your posting here.
  
  You don't carry it well.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bear with me, Paul. Everything is positioned the way it is for a reason.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He's out of his comfort zone, it seems.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  you're so transparent !
  I think you have a huge mind problem.
  You made the mistake of thinking I wouldn't know anything about L. A.
  
  And I wasn't the one pulled out of the comfort zone. I'm latin american and this is my zone. Not yours
  
  what a joke !
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have a huge mind problem. You posted in the middle of my post.
  this is a mess !!
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pity. I missed. Oh, well.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is my original post.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It looks as if you don't remember the lessons well-
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I actually remember them very well. Understand your objective and position your verbiage to gain the required results.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The objective being what you are attempting to learn from the resultant fallout.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
If I knew how, I would pray for you-
I'm done !
good night.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have a pleasant evening.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
me too

nice night actually. sorry i didn't answer your email. i will now. been a busy couple of days. anyway, nice to see you.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's been a bit busy, really. Our Holy Truth VetsTown Variety
  Store is set for it's Grand Opening and I have had to deal with quite a bit for this to happen. However, because of it, 15-20 previously homeless veterans more now have real homes and employment.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
that's wonderful! you're doing some good works.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Nice !! hi Justine !
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hub love to everyone!!!
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Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
love right back at ya!!

Definately have not had enough caffiene for some of the above posts though

Demon deliverance is not based on Hollywood drama or mankinds impressions even , but for the Christian it is just all part n parcel of Spirituality. Even among believers , there are many contentious beliefs, but from personal experience , Id recommend anyone trust in their own 'minds' another words God gave you a sound mind and you can know the truth for yourself.

Dont doubt and be tossed around like the waves in the ocean .

Believe or dont ...

And one last comment to the OP ... A Church may play down , or play up Demonic activity but God never did either...He just said it , then dealt to it , you can do
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good advice!
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
what's more, i find it sickening that people assume, believe, what have you that the human being and its ability beyond neurological processes or physical actions is irrational.

any sound human being can logically equate the physical ability of moving a finger, yet cannot equate the movement of energy within themselves??? That is ridiculous.

why is it that spirit is thought or believed to be some "mystical thing"?

"...the energy in you isn't real, you are just 'chemical processes' of molecules made of atomic elements, that are actually formations of subatomic particles which are made of ultra-subatomic parts which have a genetic map, that we can't even see with the machines we made.
And logically, since we can't see them, they aren't real nor have any true purpose of place in our logical methods of searching for the 'truth'. Thus, so you in fact are not real, because the stuff you are made of is not completely provable..." LMAO !
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So if I asked you to describe the concept of "science," would you be able to do it?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if i had to describe the concept of science I would say it is a system of theoretical ideology, attempting to prove what already exists to the purposed ignorance of human thinking.
  
  as for the methods and such of science, they are items of an unnatural sort attempting to prove or recreate the evident.
  
  the purpose: control. power. respectability. influence.
  
  no different than any organization -be it religious, geopolitical.
  
  *by unnatural, i mean mechanisms that were made through and by the destruction of another thing to be used to prove that thing ever existed*
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you've got plenty of nasty things to say about science, but little or no understanding of what it is you're actually insulting.
  
  But you think you're special and enlightened because your cynicism feels like knowledge to you.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like an alien.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  maybe so, T, maybe so.
  
  as for 'nasty' comments about science and my 'understanding of the various types of sciences, Paul, you have no idea -not a shred of an idea- what i do or do not know.
  
  which leads me, again, to strengthen my position that your scientific philosophy is the same as your half brothers, religion.
  it was from ritual practice & belief systems that your science came into being.
  Furthermore, it was once a mystical thing: medicine. Where men were -ironically- called medicine men, healers, sorcerers, witch doctors. Making all sorts of potions to cure whatever ailed folk.
  You may have 'advanced technology' (though i will debate that), pretty stainless steel and glass tents where you make your potions, but you are still the medicine men of old, trying to be something more, to 'rationally and logically' separate yourselves from your wife -religion. But no matter how you try, you will always be wedded to her and she to you. 5,000 years of proof -even more so- your own proof, scientific.
  
  can you say: porch, i knew you could...
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, you'd like to think so, but you keep putting your ignorance on display.
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  Alessia Amnesiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought the concept of science was to try not to fall asleep during class?
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The church has dropped this Voodoo of religion because it has enough trouble being credible already!
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Porch

I will use this word for something else in my FB
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  FB? Facebook? right, got it.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tan, if you search 21 days you'll find me on FB.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK ! thanks !!
  If you search tantrrum, you'll never find me.
  Stay alert! Lets see if you guess who I am
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oooh i like it. jeje
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
then by all means, Paulie, tell me what my ignorance actually is -apart from your rhetorical conjecture and justification of your 'absolute scientific ideology'
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have science confused with the activities of the "mad scientist" villains of saturday morning cartoons.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
emm, so you cannot tell me what it is but have the audacity to dispute it. How coy. Foolish, I'm sad to say.
It is now clearly obvious your intellect has marred your ability to 'think' clear enough to perceive an original thought, apart from what you -and no less the masses- have been bombarded into believing.

you would have done well to leave well enough alone, friend.

thank you, enjoy your religion
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did tell you what it is, but I'll rephrase it more simply.
  
  Your ignorance is that you don't even understand what science is. At a very basic level. I don't mean you're ignorant of thermodynamics or electronic systems engineering, I mean you don't understand about making a hypothesis and then testing it against reality. Further, you seem to be filling the hole in your knowledge with some sort of bizarre fantasy that's vaguely reminiscient of the madness of Martin Luther.
  
  Prove me wrong if I'm wrong. Post an actual criticism of science instead of stringing together meaningless rants about harlots and marriage to religion and porches and being.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  as stated repeatedly, science IS religion.
  critique or not, fact is fact.
  book upon book, essay upon essay, line upon line.
  your 'science' is the new age religion for the masses of the 21st century.
  'discovery'? your religion has not discovered anything that did not exist already. but in your intellect you assume you have, assuming your are superior to your wife -the mystic. You assume your potions are greater than those of your ancestors -or do you deny, in your own ignorance your ancestors- who gave you those fundamental recipes? I dare you!
  
  you assume we folk do not know any better and will just as easily and sheepishly follow you as they did the priests of Baal? Bah! not so.
  
  combine your 'logic' with your 'incense' and it is still the same old magic trick done by snake oil proselytes a thousand years ago.
  
  my critique of science is already clearly stated: a religion.
  a systematic approach and otherwise a feeble attempt to explain the purpose of all human existence: to be exactly as the One who made us,
  to be spirit.
  
  after 30 years of studying your 'technology, nanometrics and seeing your ruthless experimentation, i am fully convinced you are a savage and otherwise heartless group of fools, trying to play creator with absolute zero understanding of even the basic fundamental of energy or the chemical units you manipulate or hypothesize about.
  
  all well and good though.
  the age is here when others -much like myself- will breathlessly surpass you and your wife and even your offspring of ideologies. While you marvel at your lack of creation and they marvel at the gates of creation, we will enjoy and be that creation.
  
  until then, enjoy your porch swing.
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  The Paulposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See, stuff like that. It's just a hollow accusation, it does nothing but make you look ignorant unless you're going to back it up.
  
  ...and oh look at that. Another meaningless rant about porches and wives.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
hello writer.
sorry can't see that image posting.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
In your "Savage and heartless bunch of fools" are a lot of fine people who devote their lives to medical science. you use science developed from the processes you scorn, even to write in the forums!
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
The last time I was possessed the church drove that demon out but he jumped out the top of my head! Now hair won't grow there thats why I'm bald!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That same demon must have attacked me and my father before me. It pays to listen to you sneak, it gives me answers to unknown things!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks I like you!
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ernest, sorry to go offtopic for just a second, but I started that Hub about Elizabeth and a few other notable nature issues I can remember. Sort of opened a floodgate.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good one! I will take a look! When they are published.
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  Unchained Graceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK. Hey, did you hear about that other forum? Pat Robertson
  who is the lead mutant at the 700 Club actually came out and said it was the fault of the Haitian people for the earthquake.
  Can you actually believe that?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From him, yes I can believe it from him. He is unwell.
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Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago
I didn't read any of this; I just lol'ed at "reality" and "demonic attacks" in the same sentence and thought I'd pipe in.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ... as you would... Hell of a combo that!
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SirDentposted 14 years ago
Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

Mar 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

___________________________________________________

Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
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theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago
In Ireland we have found that the real demons are inside the Church, we have had two inquiries the Ryan Report and the Murphy Report into allegations of child abuse carried out by Priests and others and it has been found that thousands of children were raped and abused by members of religious congregations (see, irishtimes.com), so I suppose if they were too recognise demonic attack they will simply be looking in the mirror......
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Madame Xposted 14 years ago
There's lots of black magic out there. My guess is that the reason some don't want to admit demonic attack exists is because then they would give the reality of black magic legitimacy. They do seem to go together.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Madame X,
  
  You are right about that....demons are real, black magic, sorcery is real and Jesus has given us power over all of it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorta like good fairy bad fairy... makes sense!
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
someone's been smoking some bad granola=)
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defenestratethisposted 14 years ago
The "devil" and/or "demons" are man made myths. Nuthin but a bunch of hog wash, they are. No "evil forces" out there, only humans committing atrocious acts. Does the devil make them do it? No. Theyre just really f**ked up, insane, or mean.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is good to see a clear mind on these forums. Nice, straight, truthful... your not Australian are you?
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  defenestratethisposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the compliment, but no, Im just a bawdy american. Got plans in the works to become an ex-patriot, though...
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Faybe Bayposted 14 years ago
Dear earnestshub, are you trying to get me to post a larry video here?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Err .... probably!
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  Faybe Bayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Larry Norman and Cliff Richard!
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNIqeow3Z4
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great music. Great rock, shame about the lyrics!
  Would you believe that an anti religious guy like me loves gospel as well as other religious music! One of my favourite pieces of music is Paul Robeson singing "How great thou art?
  
  On the other side, my son does the best version of Hallelujah I have ever heard, and I have heard a lot of them. I still play 6 string acoustic and sing, as does my daughter (drums, vocal, acoustic guitar) and we have some up and comers amongst the younger ones.
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  Faybe Bayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love that song, Hallelujah. I was in awe of it on the Hope For Haiti telethon. I kept rewinding and playing it over.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are some awful versions of it to, and although I love Bob Dillon, his version is lousy in my view. Crowe did a great version, Crow did a lousy version!
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  Faybe Bayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All the old versions are so low quality this is Randy Stonehill. I was looking for "Stoned in Norman's Kitchen" Which is the story of how Larry lead Randy to the lord in his kitchen. It was only ever bootleg and live but haven't tracked one down yet.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2PPwLCx45o
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StormRyderposted 14 years ago

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jamckinnonposted 14 years ago
The Catholic church is the mother of all harlots mentioned in the Book of Revalation. It was began by Simon Magus and is refered to in Acts.
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Why does the church largely play down the relaity of Demonic attacks?

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Why does the church largely play down the relaity of Demonic attacks?

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