Religious child abuse

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   Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years ago

   Why do people brainwash their children into believing their particular religion at such a young age? Is it because they know that the younger the child the easier it is to brainwash them?
   
   Studies show that the younger a child is when brainwashed, the harder it is for them to break free from their brainwashing.
   
   Why do lovig parents do this to their children? Whay dont they wait until they are 18 and let them decide for themselves?
   
   Check out this video and see what I am talking about.
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VoYi_qzgt8

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      ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So they should be athiest until 18 and then free to choose? 

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         Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         They're atheist already until they are old enough to be brainwshed. What's the harm in waiting until they can actually think for themselves?

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            ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know?  I personally waited well after 18 to accept Jesus Christ.  I don't see children as atheist. I see them as GOD's children just like everyone else. 

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            aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            This is totally false!
            
            Children are blank canvass. Any child can, and will believe what they are thought. It's what they are thought, that tags them as one or the other.
            
            It's fascinating to me how you attack religion, yet, quite happily accept fairy tales and children's stories as ok. After all, just about every child on the planet realises the difference between these and reality as they age (usually by their teens).

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               Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I define atheism as lack of belief in a god so by that definition, every new born bay is atheist, and atheism, as a lack of belief, holds no tenets.
               
               
               
               Indeed I attack religion and view fairytales as ok because noone is teaching kids that fairytales are true.

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                  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Your definition is flawed.
                  
                  See here >>> http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ … tions.html

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                     Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     LOL if you read the rest of the page that you linked me to it contains both definitions and highlights the use of both of them.
                     
                     I define it as lack of belief and in my experience, so do most people who call themself atheist.
                     
                     Its fine if you want to define it as the belief there is no god, but of course that would leave me with no way of describing myself or anmyone else who simply lacks belief in a god.
                     
                     I take the definition from latin. The prefix of "A" means without. Put "A" before theism and it means without atheism. That is the defintion I and many atheists, ooopps, non believers hold to.

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                        aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        It all ads up to the same thing.
                        
                        As Jesus summed it up, "whoever is not for me is AGAINST me"
                        Sorry, define it any way you want, but as an atheist, you are at odds with your creator, by default, if not by deliberate rejection.
                        
                        That's the VERY issue the Gospel of Jesus Christ addresses.

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                           Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           That makes no sense. We are talking about beliefs an not what people are against or for.
                           
                           I lack belief in your god. That says nothing about wether or not I think he sounds like a nice or a nasty god.

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      darknight444posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      well thanks to allah i m e mslim and i have e very biautiful growth in islamique society
      islame is just soooo biautiful even in the way that the holy coran was wrriten ,and the biautie of the language of the holy coran and mohamed
      
      oh mohamed we only sent you murcy to all creation

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   3. 49

      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The parents love their children and are naturally responsible to teach them and culture them into what they believe and what they do until they mature.
      
      They should not leave their children a prey for the atheists or irreligious.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That's still no reason to brainwash them, Paar.
         
         
         
         In other words, shield them from the world and reality, do not let them come in contact with other people, other ideas or other beliefs. Indoctrinate them into one religion and censor the rest, instead.

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   *grabs cupcakes and two liter bottle of soda awaiting the fireworks*

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      Beth100posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm bringing the Cheetos.    *grabs a seat next to Cags*

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3. 0

   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   Darn tooting. Shame on anyone for imprinting their children. Let's build a million bubbles. Put the kids in there. Shake em and bake em for eighteen years and then let them out to assimilate. See how it turns out.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Not brainwashing your children doesnt mean protecting them from everything. Not brainwashing your children should go without saying, but it doesnt so I made this post. You're saying you watched the video and you're ok with it?

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No, I'm not ok with it. I didn't watch the whole thing. I've seen the video on Jesus camp before. That's freaky, but the video combines two separate things and acts as if it is one. It isn't.
         
         The religious right is political. Heck, my sister claims she's a buddhist and she politics with those people. That is simply fear and bigotry, with the churches used as a rallying point. Religion isn't brainwashing the children of those people. Greed, selfishness and hatred are.
         
         Jesus camp is some Pentecostal insanity. Not affiliated with the other, except they both claim the name religious. 2.9% of America is pentecostal, but I still have hope. I do know a few people who are and they don't raise their kids that way, so I like to think that the Jesus camp scenario is a tiny minority of ultra insane philosophy inside a backward sect.
         
         We are educating that out slowly, but I still think parents have the right to make decisions for their children.

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I never said that every christian was like this. My point is that IT HAPPENS.
            
            Of course this is an extreme version of brainwashing, but even normal parents, when they tell their 6 year old about god and heaven and hell when they have NO PROOF, is brainwashing.
            
            No matter how trivial, it is unacceptable.

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               ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Religion isn't based off of "PROOF", science is.  Religion is based off of faith. 

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Indeed it is. Why is that? Because there is no proof?
                  
                  I bet you cant explain logically why faith is a good thing.

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                     ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I think I just stated that. It's a good thing because true faith is selfless, just as Jesus was.  That's often hard for the selfish to understand. 

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                  aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Deleted
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                     ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I ask for proof concerning science, which is required, specifically. 

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                        aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Please disregard my post.
                        I replied by mistake, thinking it was Jesus was a hippy.

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                           ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           No problemo. 

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, you are right. A tiny minority of America abuses their children, but let me tell you; there isn't a thing you can do about it. You can't adopt those kids. Would you farm them out to foster homes? Institutionalize them, to get them away from their parents?
               
               You'll never stamp out radical religious sects. They will raise children. But, that is not the primary root of the most child abuse in America. It's a minor portion. I'd honestly rather see a kid think he was having visions of God then be raped, sexually molested or physically abused.
               
               Anyway, raising a kid with simple belief in God is no more abusive than raising him atheist with no Easer basket full of candy.

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Being atheist doesnt mean your kids cannot enjoy traditions like easter eggs. I never saw anything about chocolate eggs in the bible did you?
                  
                  Crazy religious sects should be tackled and closed down. I happens in the uk and it should happen in the us.

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                     Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You aren't actually trying to convince me that there are no crazy religious sects in the UK. Are you?

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                        Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        No? Where did you get that idea from? If there were no crazy sects in the uk then how could any be closed down?

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                           Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Look, I'm sure you mean well. But you are letting the media play with your emotions. One video doesn't make a reality. It makes you gullible.

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                              Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Are you saying that what is in the video was not real? Im pretty sure it was 100% genuine.

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                                 Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 One thing I am saying is that if you live in the UK, you are shoving your nose into another country's business without the benefit of knowing what you are talking about.
                                 
                                 I know  a wacky religious person or two. I've met maybe five in my lifetime. I don't think we've got a major problem.

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                                    Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    I dont think it is a nationwide problem. I think it is a worldwide problem. Westboro baptist church is also a very small percentage of christians.
                                    
                                    The problem is, a lot of very small percentages add up. Especially when you add up all the different religions as well.

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                                       ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       So do a lot of atheists, and Hindu, and scientoligists, Catholics .....etc.

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                                       Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Westboro Baptist is an enigma. That is one glaring reason I would consider support of laws limiting religious freedom. But Westboro Baptist is one family. It isn't a real church.
                                       
                                       Worldwide? I would say there's a problem, but I would also temper that statement by including the fact that if you take religion out of the mix another power will fill the void. Will our kids be raised any better? Have a greater chance at peace and tranquility? I don't think so.

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                                          Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          Who decide what is and isnt a church? People do. They say it is a church, so it is a church. They have members outside of their family by the way.
                                          
                                          Just because there will be other things that cause problems doens mean we should give up trying to eradicate them. That will get people nowhere.
                                          
                                          If there is a problem, then the cause of that problem should be dealt with. If another problem arises from a different cause, well that is another story altogether that also should not be ignored.

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            3. 66

               aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               There's that ridiculous request for PROOF again.
               
               How can you teach your kids about respect?
               Respect doesn't exist. How can you PROVE it does.
               
               Or politeness. Or loving your neighbour.
               
               Prove to your kids that they will be a success in life.

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  It is easier to say "there is no proof" rather then "you cannot demonstrate it to be true".
                  
                  i think we had this discussion before. You're just being pedantic.

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4. 66

   aka-djposted 12 years ago

   The question is sssoooo loaded!
   
   Firstly, teaching your children is your responsibility as a parent. Each person teaches/trains their children as best they can. Sadly, far too may (young) parents haven't a clue on good parenting, so they have very few lifeskills to pass on. This is all before religion even comes into the picture.
   
   Speaking for myself, I was a convert at the age of 20, well past your arbitrary 18. My idea of raising tmy kids was to introduce them to as much as we could including everything from opera, to drag racing,fishing to dance etc.
   
   My philosophy on teaching them "religion" as you put it, was two fold. One, live my faith daily, so they learnt by association, and expose them to the doctrines we lived by. The idea was, that a child can CHOOSE, when they have alternatives. If they only ever get ONE, where's the choice?
   
   Now, I have one who is following our faith (although loosely) and another who holds the values, but has no church affiliations. I love them both, and always will. I can never be accused of either "brainwashing" then, nor of never giving them a balanced approach to life's choices.
   
   As for teaching them tenets of atheism, I recon the likes of you, and society in general does a great job of delivering their versions of brainwashing.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with that 100%

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5. 60

   Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years ago

   Is anyone watching the whole video? I just got to the bit where the pastor is condemning harry potter to death.

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6. 58

   MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

   All of my children were homeschooled for some length of time.  My youngest will likely be homeschooled for her entire education.
   
   Parents are supposed to teach.  That's kinda why we are here.  I agree with the one lady almost verbatim, I didn't have children to have someone else raise them. 
   
   I know quite a few fundamentalist homeschooling parents, and the way homeschooling was portrayed by the tape was seriously not accurate.  It gives the impression that fundamentalist spend the majority of their day discussing religion while teaching.  Quite honestly, with the requirements of most public school systems (including the U.K.) believing that religion incorporates even 20 percent of the school day is insane.  There just isn't time to spend hours on theology, there are  the basics to be taught.
   
   I think parents do have a right to teach their views to their children.  I also believe that parents have the right to keep their children away from outside influence that they believe would hurt their child emotionally or developmentally.  Once again, that's what parents are there for.
   
   Try looking at it like this... If someone tried to force you to teach your children what THEY believed in, how would that fly with you?  Lets say I flat out declared that you were an abusive parent because you were indoctrinating your children into atheism?
   
   So many things are called abuse when what people are really saying is "We don't agree with you"

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      First off, atheism isnt a belief. I define it as the lack of belief. I dont believe there is no god I simply lack belief in one, any of them.
      
      You are missing the key point here as to what kids should be taught. The key point is that religion cannot be demonstrated to be true. That is why you need FAITH to believe in it.
      
      Noone has the right to teach anything AS A FACT that they cannot demonstrate to be true and that is what this post is about.
      
      Let them grow up first.

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         ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It seems you are having trouble with the TRUE meaning of words again. That is a result of mixing personal philosophy with the previously defined. 
         
         
         true
         Popularity
         
         38 ENTRIES FOUND:
         1) true (adjective)
         2) true (adverb)
         3) true (noun)
         4) true (verb)
         true airspeed (noun)
         true altitude (noun)
         true balsam (noun)
         true bearing (noun)
         true believer (noun)
         true bill (noun)
         true blue (noun)
         true-blue (adjective)
         true branching (noun)
         true bug (noun)
         true course (noun)
         true discount (noun)
         true dolphin (noun)
         true-false test (noun)
         true fruit (noun)
         true guest (noun)
         true heading (noun)
         true horizon (noun)
         True Leveller (noun)
         true-life (adjective)
         true lover's knot (noun)
         true middle lamella (noun)
         true plane (noun)
         true porcelain (noun)
         true rib (noun)
         true seal (noun)
         
         1true adj \ˈtrü\
         tru·ertru·est
         
         
         
         Definition of TRUE
         
         1
         a : steadfast, loyal
         b : honest, just
         c archaic : truthful
         2
         a (1) : being in accordance with the actual state of affairs <true description> (2) : conformable to an essential reality (3) : fully realized or fulfilled <dreams come true>
         b : ideal, essential
         c : being that which is the case rather than what is manifest or assumed <the true dimension of the problem>
         d : consistent <true to character>
         3
         a : properly so called <true love> <the true faith> <the true stomach of ruminant mammals>
         b (1) : possessing the basic characters of and belonging to the same natural group as <a whale is a true but not a typical mammal> (2) : typical <the true cats>
         4
         : legitimate, rightful <our true and lawful king>
         5
         a : that is fitted or formed or that functions accurately
         b : conformable to a standard or pattern : accurate
         6
         : determined with reference to the earth's axis rather than the magnetic poles <true north>
         7
         : logically necessary
         8
         : narrow, strict <in the truest sense>
         9
         : corrected for error
         — true·ness noun
         
         
         http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/true

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That is the defintion I was using you dishonest troll.

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               ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Then that definition contradicts your original statement, because it compliments religion quite nicely. 

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                  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Fuck off with your trolling

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                     ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     There's no need to be angry it's just a discussion forum.  It's ok to have an opposing view.  It gives you a chance to see what everyone else thinks about the subject.

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      2. 58

         MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well now that's just silly.
         
         Do you have children, seriously? 
         
         I tell my kids things as facts that are unprovable every day.  Yes Lily, the rainbow is pretty.  Yes Kyle, Blacks are equal to whites.  No Damion, you aren't a geek. 
         
         I'll go on:  Boys and girls are equals.  Martin Luther King Jr. was a great man.  Classical music is beautiful. We should be kind to our neighbors.  We should help people in need. 
         
         My personal favorite: You will use Algebra when you grow up.

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ok maybe I should elaborate and say objective facts. Everything you mentioned was subjective.

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            ediggityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I use algebra every day. 

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7. 69

   IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years ago

   HHas anyone ever seen the Duggar family on TLC?  I feel sorry for those kids.  Even their school work is based off  religious Baptist teachings.  Scary.

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8. 0

   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   I simply wonder why there are those who fear diversity to such a great extent. And, of course, the burning question of why are there those on both sides of the fence who spend time advocating forcing others to toe their personal line.
   
   You  do realize your entire argument has been little different from that of the Christian right?

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      Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I've been telling the "atheist church" that same thing for years now.
      
      I believe the new semantic sticking point is an attempt to not seem like a church, even though they are.
      
      Believing no God exists is a belief, a faithful belief.
      
      Lacking belief is actually saying you are agnostic. But being agnostic would make promoting the atheist church (which is being done in this thread) much harder, because it lacks a stance to base your arguments on.
      
      Atheism is a religion, it has dogma, it has ethical and moral obligations one must follow, it actively seeks converts and is based on a faithful/intuitive belief in the non-existence of a supreme being/God.
      
      After they stopped trying to deny this stance of mine (that atheism is a religion) they said I had to prove the existence of God, which I did. That proof has done nothing more than to change thier attempts at the conversion process, this time with the semantic technicality in use in this thread.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Freedom of conscience is a difficult thing to agree to. Everyone wants to be right. But, I label myself agnostic because I see it as the only honest stand. I don't have a problem with either side of the fence until they start touting it as truth. Atheism has never been nd proven to me, anymore than theism has. It's all in our heads.

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            Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Though I disagree with your last sentence, I must admit I believe that God loves diversity and protects that diversity. In this case I believe that we will not ever be able to get everyone to agree because God doesn't want us to all be the same. God doesn't want us to all think alike. God wants the diversity that comes from different beliefs, different ways of seeing reality.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Hmmm. You said I must admit I believe that God loves diversity and protects that diversity. In this case I believe that we will not ever be able to get everyone to agree because God doesn't want us to all be the same. God doesn't want us to all think alike. God wants the diversity that comes from different beliefs, different ways of seeing reality.
               
               I say: I must admit I believe that I love diversity and will always advocate to protect that diversity. In this case I believe that we will not ever be able to get everyone to agree because we aren't the same. I don't think we should strive to all think alike. The diversity that comes from different beliefs, different ways of seeing reality is a good thing.

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                  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Agreed, so long as we find a way to lose the hate.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         LOL! The fact that others gave up listening to someone beat to death extremely weak and fallacious arguments based on irrational beliefs does not mean victory for you.
         
         
         
         LOL! Yes, you said God exists because God exists. Unfortunately, no one was convinced of that mind-boggling proof.

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         MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         See, I don't think it's cool to label another person's belief system.  It assumes that you know more about their beliefs then they do.  If they say it's not a religion, then so be it.  Why is it so important to you to attempt to prove that they think like you think they think?

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   Daniel Carterposted 12 years ago

   Better yet, tell me who is NOT brainwashed about something. Anything. If you can't make that list, then why are you harping about religion? Brainwashing occurs over huge range of subject, not just religion. The only answer I know is for people to figure it out for themselves, becoming independent of those who brainwashed them. And that doesn't happen very often.

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      MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's actually a pretty good point.  Although I'll go one further, any type of learning is going to be "brainwashing" on one level or another.  Every thing being taught has a teacher.  No matter how hard one tries, one cannot impart knowledge without it being tainted by ones perceptions/opinions. True neutrality is virtually impossible.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There is a difference.
         
         Teachers who impart knowledge without allowing the student to criticize or analyze the knowledge, or see it in action for themselves would probably be teachers who are "brainwashing" while the teachers who impart knowledge and ask their students to think critically about the knowledge and who shows the knowledge in action is not "brainwashing" - but is in fact, teaching. The teacher in this case can offer their perceptions/opinions and the students are free to analyze and criticize those perceptions/opinions. The teacher does NOT expect the student to accept their perceptions/opinions.

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            Daniel Carterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And those teachers are very few and far between. However, in some isolated cases, they do exist.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Interesting, I have had only those type of teachers. I've never known of any teachers who push their own personal agendas/opinions/perceptions on their students. I think they would have a very difficult time doing so considering how parents would react as they would immediately contact the Principal of the school and deal it up.

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                  Daniel Carterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  My experience has been the opposite. I think you are fortunate to have grown up in such circumstances. I don't think it's the norm for most people.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry to hear that Daniel. Did you go to a school that was based on a religion?

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                        Daniel Carterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        No. But I grew up as a lot of people do, going to public schools heavily influenced by local custom, politics and religion. They were all wonderful people in their own way. However, wonderful people can also brainwash exceptionally well. I learned to critically examine most things in my life by living life and questioning what is real. It was sometimes frightening letting go of old belief systems that no longer proved to be true.
                        
                        In the end, we must learn for ourselves.

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                           A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           I can see that from your posts.

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            MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I agree in theory, however in practice a person in authority/esteem is going to have "sway power" even if they don't intentionally use it.  Saying "you are free to make your own decision" actually gives them MORE sway power as it makes the "teacher" seem more likable and reasonable.
            
            Furthermore, any "teacher" that establishes a relationship with their student (being engaging writing, teaching 8 hours a day for a year, or parenting) often teaches more with their personality/that relationship then with the actual lessons.
            
            Anything taught is touched by that personality.
            
            My oldest son, for example, could tell you how I probably feel about a subject before I open my mouth.  As much as I try to remain neutral, my body language and tone of voice give my opinion louder than any of my words.  He reads his school teachers as easily.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I don't think that's a problem at all. If kids are allowed to think critically, they would be able to distinguish the personality from the knowledge.
               
               How many kids get the same teacher all day long?

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                  MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  During their most formative educational years, most do actually.  Children learn more raw data in the first 4 years of their life then for the rest of it.  Personalities (which generally affect opinions more than knowledge) are well set by the age of 3.  Parents are the first and most important teachers of the children and USUSALLY, they have the same parents for those 4 years.
                  
                  
                  The second greatest period of learning comes between 5-9 years of age.  At least in the West Virginia school systems, elementary students are taught by the same teacher all day.  Only in middle school/high school do the kids start switching teachers.
                  
                  Now, a question for you...  How do you form your opinions?  I'm assuming you have a source or several sources of information?

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Perhaps, but most kids who reach the age of when they do get different teachers don't remember much of those formative years, nor is it likely they have been taught to think critically.
                     
                     
                     
                     I don't think that really has anything to do with kids who are taught to think critically.
                     
                     
                     
                     I would suspect that a West Virginia parent is going to deal up any issues their kids are experiencing at school with a teacher who is putting their personal opinions in front of the knowledge.
                     
                     I just don't buy it that any parent is going to sit idly by not keeping tabs on what they're kids are learning and what the teacher is teaching them.
                     
                     
                     
                     Surely Melissa, you've probably guessed by now that I don't just swallow  anyone's personal beliefs and claims that are beyond the scope of what reality shows us.

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10. 61

    Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

    The solution to the problem is obvious. As soon as a parent who harbors some kind of "wierd" belief bears a child, remove the child for that bad influence and put them in some kind of governmental instition where they can be raised with the "approved" mindset. Oooops! That's an old idea. That what White colonial imperialists did to the indigenous populations of aboriginals from the Americas and everywhere they went. Still a grand idea, say what? Replace old brainwashing with new brainwashing. In a hundred years or so, repeat the process as needed. We should just take the abnormal thinkers out and waste 'em. I think they called that Eugenics. Hitler loved that crap.

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