Charlie Chaplin's Exile from the United States

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   GmaGoldieposted 12 years ago

   The FBI reports concerning Charlie Chaplin were recently released.
   
   What are your thoughts about the United States exiling Charlie?
   
   If you don't mind, please include your country of residence.
   
   I think this fact critical to understanding democracy and preservation of democracy in America. If we don't understand history and see our flaws, how can we avoid the same mistakes in the future.
   
   Charlie was a wonderful artist. He made us smile and he was the author of one of my favorite songs "Smile". Our founding fathers, I feel, would have looked to his life as a reason for their being and would have highlighted his life and his exile.
   
   I love freedom and love history. Combining these two items I feel is fundamental to being a citizen of the United States and of the world. I hope the world over sees his life as a testament not just to his craft but also to a free world.
   
   Democracy is a precious gift that cannot be taken for granted.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting.  But I have to say I've never really researched Charlie Chaplin or his life nor this issue.
      But up front I do have a question and a response to your statement about being a citizen of the United States and of the world.  And I take exception to the latter part.  We may all be residents of the world, but our citizenship should be in one Nation.  Unless there's reason for dual citizenship for work-related travel or other necessary reasons.
      Which, of course, leads me to wonder if Chaplin's exile was because he wasn't willing to make that patriotic claim to U.S. citizenship.
      
      And....your hub references the McCarthy hearings.  Personally, and as a citizen of the United States, I think the U.S.A. should've listened to McCarthy.  If it had, maybe we wouldn't have a red carpet opening up now to Communists who would like nothing better than to BECOME our leaders.   ...and actually, some of them HAVE succeeded in infiltrating.
      I'll have to research more before I can contribute more.

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         f_hruzposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yeh, do some research ... and while you are at it try to find out why there is no real representation of working people, social democrats, socialists, marxists and communists in the US? An why your tax dollars go to support a zionist Israel which uses that same money to pay for the jewish lobby ... research it well and do a hub on the topic ...

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, Charlie Chaplin was a wonderfull artist and a fascinating man also, the fact that he was discriminated against based on his beliefs is distastefull in the extreme.
      
      Brenda went on about Patriotism for a while then proceeded to demonstrate that she is the opposite of everything America stands for, apparently she is patriotic but quite happy to wipe herself with the constitution of the United States if it means denying some commies their right to freedom of speech and freedom of thought, ignorance and hypocrisy like that led to the discrimination we are talking about.
      
      Oh and I live in the US

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         Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         This is really interesting because today in the UK there was a news report about Chaplin. Apparently, because of the accusations that he was a communist sympathiser, M15 were forced to investigate. Apparently, they could find no such evidence that he was linked to the communist party (McCarthy, eh?) and, according to M15's historical evidence, he may not have been born in London. However, they are unsure because at that time in working class England it was not uncommon for people not to register a birth, because they poor were trying to evade the bayliffs.  it appears that nothing much changes for the working classes.
         
         I'm form the UK.

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            Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            McCarthy was quite capable of finding "proof" your dog was a soviet spy if we wanted to the man was a power hungry autocrat who made himself famous by opressing the greatest minds of his time, "Good night and good luck" is a great true story film on the period I recommend it to those interested.

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               Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I'm interested. From what I've read about McCarthy, admittedly I'm no expert, he was insane. Everyone's a commie if they disagree with the government. Oh, wait, that pretty much sounds like America, today.

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                  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  HAHA you might be right Hollie, but yes he was mad.

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                     Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     As mad as any government who is insecure enough to stalk those who oppose them. Jeez, our world is so sad, so frightening.

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                        Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        You're not wrong, especially given most of these people didn't even oppose them they were barely even suspected of it.

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                           Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Just oppressed. I remember Tony Benn, a great British politician, and for whom I have a great deal of respect, talking about a young men who he met. The young man told him that he had no interest in politics, that he just wanted things to be a bit fairer. Tony Benn replied. "you may not be interested in politics, but you should be, or politics will take an interest in you."
                           
                           How apt?

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                              Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I like that actually I'm adding it to my list of favorite qoutes (yup its an actual list)

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                                 Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I was paraphrasing, I will however, find you the original quote. I will also dig up a lot more information about Tony Benn, Maybe you are already familiar with him. If not, I feel that you and he will get along just fine.

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                                    Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    As promised.
                                    
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MUI2A3AFIc

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                                       John Holdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Ah, Tony Benn, the greatest PM we never had!

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                                       Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Exellent thanks for that

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         Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hey, you asked for opinions.
         Then when you get opinions, you proceed to insult the poster whose opinion is opposite of yours.  Actually, not even necessarily opposite.  I simply made informed statements about the view of being a "world citizen" and what it means to be a U.S. citizen,  not any direct opposition to Charlie Chaplin himself, since I haven't researched him personally.
         
         So much for free speech without personal attacks, something that I have the right to.  And yeah you're darn skippy right if you think I was trying to "deny some Commies".  That's what America should do, in America.  If they wanna be "commies" in their own Country, then let 'em have at it.
         
         And if you want to pay homage (and maybe even taxes; LOL) to "the world", including the Communist world, go ahead.  I'm happy and responsible only for the United States citizenship to which I adhere.

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            Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't talk about world citizenship at all what I said is you are not a patriot in any way since you feel it appropriate to violate the most sacrosant tenets of the American way of life and of Americas constitution just because you dont agree with someone, so free speech as long as you agree with them huh? What a joke.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well, sure you DID  talk about "world citizenship".  Didn't you even read your own post?
               Good grief.  What do you do, follow those other people who try to be dual citizens so they can pit other Nations against America or what?  You make no sense; you say one thing and then say you didn't even say it.
               By the way, I have better things to do with the Constitution than to "wipe" myself with it, and I take huge exception to your posting that nastiness in such a manner.  So please refrain from insulting me again.

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                  Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Please copy paste  for me the section where I mention world citizenship?! Its not there. What I did say is you are no kind of patriot and obviously think nothing of the constitution since you are happy to see the first ammendment violated (as well as a few others).

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Good grief, read your own original post!
                     And stop saying I'm not a patriot, but yet upholding the "rights" of someone who wasn't even an American citizen!  Sheesh!  Your accusations sound worse than the people who persecuted Charlie Chaplin!
                     
                     READ your own post and stop asking me to copy/paste the stuff.
                     
                     Maybe if you'd like to retract your statement about how it's so laudable to be a "citizen...of the WORLD", we won't continue to argue about it, and you can go blithely about your business of claiming American citizenship!

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                        Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        *tears out hair* its not there... its just not, this is mad, and yes Brenda everyone even non citizens (he was a legal resident) are protected under the constitution.
                        
                        I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, my posts are the ones with the name Josak on them, none of them mention international citizenship except to say that I havn't commented on it.

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           

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            Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            But he wasn't a commie, Brenda. That's what M15 uncovered, just from a poor family that was perhaps evading bayliffs.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               From what I gather, neither did he bother to become a U.S. citizen, even though he lived here for a long time.  Is that not correct?   Maybe googling doesn't bring up the facts, or what?

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I obtained the information we're discussing from the BBC, the TV. Ok, I accept they're not the most reliable source, but who is? It was shown today on the BBC news, from papers taken from the archives of M15. They couldn't find evidence that he had any commie associations, but they did uncover that his place of birth was in dispute. Also, however, that was not uncommon for the era due to debts and baylifs.

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                     Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Thats an interesting one, I have read a few papers by him in which he does seem to lean left quite heavily, as for having communist party associations I wouldn't be at all surprised if he didn't.

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                        Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Often those who oppose "authority" are wrongly labelled, or not, as the case may be.

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      H P Roychoudhuryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Although the birth of Democracy was in Grace but the United States was one of the pioneer in the implementation of Democracy in the United States, a country of equality and fraternity. Charlie was a wonderful artist. He is undoubtedly a citizen of the World. If his desire is to be a citizen of United States, the American democratic people can not outright reject his desire and go against the preambles of American Constitution, or against fraternity.

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   maxoxam41posted 12 years ago

   As a citizen of the world, I am against any infringement on our liberties. To think that we are living in a democracy and this same democracy spies on us like any dictatorship, shall we call it a dictatorship?

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      not only dictators spy on their own I think we should call it an abusive government.

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      Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Maxoxam41, it's a global dictatorship. Irrespective of the miles between us, we suffer the same fate.

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   Evan G Rogersposted 12 years ago

   Exiling people is generally a surefire way to recognize tyranny.

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   Hollie Thomasposted 12 years ago

   @ John Holden. Tony Benn and John Smith, we were cheated.

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   GmaGoldieposted 12 years ago

   Thank you all for your input. Your opinion counts especially because I believe the option of free speech is fundamental to democracy.
   
   I, perhaps should be clear, I love the United States because it offers freedom. My allegiance is to the United States. I must question when we squelch free speech. Was Chaplin's error in highlighting society's ills? Should free speech allow him to question and make fun at our ills?
   
   I see Chaplin not in the light of "a communist" but as a fighter for diversity of opinion. 
   
   I feel our soldiers are fighting for our freedom and we, too, should be supporting all freedoms - even diversity of opinion - actually especially diversity of opinion. If Chaplin was exiled for "an opinion", are we as Americans limiting our viewpoints?  If Chaplin was exiled for his opinion, are we turning to tyranny? Isn't tyranny and lack of freedom of opinion and diversity what our forefathers actually fought for?
   
   In short, I feel we need to stand up for free speech and fight for what we think we right - diversity of opinions. Limiting the scope of movies, limiting books, limiting opinions will lead to shackles for our voice of opinion.
   
   I cherish each opinion - even those I don't agree with. I have a grandson in the Navy, my late husband served in the Navy, my Father in the Navy, I can most certainly fight for freedom with my opinion that "diversity of opinion" must be allowed in the United States.  Chaplin's exile was a disgrace to the freedoms our forefathers fought for. Chaplin must be remember for his innovative talents and for his diversity of opinion - whatever, you think of that opinion, the opinion should be heard - the people have have a right to hear and a right to vote. How can we note intelligently, if we can hear all the opinions?
   
   Your opinion counts, please share...

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well said

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