Self-Reliance And Work Are Not 4-Letter Words

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   There are people who deride the well earned success of other people.   They maintain that those who are highly sucessful were born in highly lucky and advantageous circumstances.    They further assert that those who were born in somewhat disadvantaged circumstances will not be as successful as those who were born into more fortunate circumstances.  Many people tend to blame their lack of success on outside circumstances instead of looking within themselves and take responsibility for their lives.   It is the "rescue me" and the "I cannot succeed unless there are fortune circumstances" mentality.    Well, news flash, no one is going to rescue you but yourselves.   Furthermore, you have to create and make your own opportunities -opportunities just do not drop in your lap so to speak!   It is time for some people to GROW UP  i.e. if you want something, work for it and stop whining!

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      Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ah the joys of hyper-simplification. You get to be "right" without having said anything that means much in the real world.

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      Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Give it up already. You already have 2 threads going that basically say the same thing.

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         thelizposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         IKR!! gmwilliams who peed in your cornflakes?

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            stoneyyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry....I couldn't help it...

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Witness the rise of socialism and communism!    CAN'T, POOR ME, and RESCUE ME are in fashion and tres chic.   CAN, SMART/HARD WORK, ACHIEVEMENT, and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY are now out of fashion!  Alas!

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                  thelizposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You keep bringing up intelligence like it's just that easy. Oh, I want to be smart, so I just have to stop being lazy.  Doesn't work that way! As we come in all sizes and colors, so too do we come in a variety of cognitive capabilities.  Many of my former high school students were illiterate or reading at a grade level years below their age and many of those students had diagnosed and undiagnosed but painfully obvious learning disabilities.  Can we tell someone with a severe processing delay that they just need to stop being lazy and try harder? Can you tell someone with cancer to try harder to get well? Stop assuming that all of those with low achievement/low income are there solely because of their lack of motivation! It's insulting.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     GGA, I am not talking about people who have moderate to severe physical and mental challenges.  Please read between the lines.   I am discussing people of normal and above intellectual indices, mentally sound, and of able body.    It is apparently oblivious even to the visually challenged that people who have moderate to severe psychological, mental, emotional, intellectual, and physical challenges find it difficult enough to make from day to day.   Many of these people cannot because of these challenges.    Such people rightfully receive assistance- if not, they should!
                     
                     There are many intelligent(some near geniuses) and able bodied poor people who could do better if they tried harder and set their minds to achieving something worthwhile in their lives.   My parents and many extended members of my family are examples of that.   Also  many of my high schoolmates and college classmates who came from poor to impoverished backgrounds are sterling examples of that.   I remember in high school, one such schoolmate who was born in the South Bronx informed me that the reason why poor people do not succeed in life is because of their mindset and they rather be the way they are.
                     
                     You see when I was younger,  I believed that poor people had severe odds against them ever escaping poverty.   I have voiced this to my parents and they corrected me, stating that such statements were utter and pure nonsense.   My parents presented examples of poor people who succeeded despite great socioeconomic odds.   My parents presented examples of their lives and so did some of my relatives.    Some of the poorer children whom I befriended asserted that being poor and/or impoverished are totally inconsequential regarding their eventual outcome.   Hell, as I have reiterated before, many of these poorer young people OUTSUCCEED those from more advantageous backgrounds.    Many became highly placed professionals such as doctors, lawyers, businesswomen, and entrepeneurs.     
                     
                     One young lady in my high school who came from Hells Kitchen, now gentrified to Clinton, came from an impoverished family   She worked after school jobs to help her family.   She did not complain about her fate at all, she willingly took responsibility for her life.    She was what you younger people would call fierce and fearless.   She was the type of person who did not tolerated excuses and passivity.   She even told me that if one wants something, stop whining and GO AFTER IT!     See, I get my information about poor people who succeeded firsthand.     
                     
                     Since I was middle-middle to upper middle to now middle-middle income (retirement,living off pension you know), I do not know firsthand of what it is like to be poor.   However, I have associated with all types of people and I have gained many people's confidence and asked questions and what their goals are.    They gladly told me.    One of my former dentist, who attended my elementary school, came from an impoverished family.   SHE knew as a child that she wanted something better for herself and set out to achieve these goals.  Many formerly poor people that I have come into contact with informed me that one MAKES opportunities and that many poor people make excuses as to why they cannot succeed rather than to work hard(their words, not mine) and make the necessary sacrifices in order to succeed.

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                        thelizposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        #1.  If you mean to include opposing views in your posts then you should.  Don't backpeddal now.  Your messages are very one sided and seem to have a serious lack of empathy for people who don't perform in line with your expectations of how their lives should go.
                        
                        #2. Anecdotes are wonderful and they can be a powerful way to enhance understanding about situations one isn't personally familiar with.  That said, unless you have had to mitigate the circumstances either of us have described, unless you have been poor, undereducated, underrepresented and figured your way out of that to realize a future against the odds of your situation then all of your anecdotal support means nothing.  Your writing sounds like you can't relate to the people you are condemning as lazy or undeserving because in fact you can't relate.  I can't relate to a lot of things myself, but I don't go about sounding off and spouting nonsense that belittles or tries to define situations beyond my scope of comment.

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                           Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Hey Liz. Excellent points. You are so right.
                           
                           While anecdotes are fine for describing and clarifying conclusions, they become logically flawed when they are used to reach conclusions. This is particularly true when the anecdotes focus on a small group that does not represent all of the complex variables found in the entire larger population.
                           
                           The web site FallacyFiles.com describes this form of illogical thinking as “hasty generalization:” “This is the fallacy of generalizing about a population based upon a sample which is too small to be representative. If the population is heterogeneous, then the sample needs to be large enough to represent the population's variability. With a completely homogeneous population, a sample of one is sufficiently large, so it is impossible to put an absolute lower limit on sample size. Rather, sample size depends directly upon the variability of the population: the more heterogeneous a population, the larger the sample required. For instance, people tend to be quite variable in their political opinions, so that public opinion polls need fairly large samples to be accurate.” {1}
                           
                           You are right to point out that basing one’s worldview upon one’s very limited life experiences usually leads to unrealistic and distorted opinions. Thank you for your comments.
                           
                           {1} http://www.fallacyfiles.org/hastygen.html

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      Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hello Ms. Williams. I hope I’m right about the gender and, further that you are having an enjoyable holiday weekend.
      
      Uninvited Writer was observant to note that this is a subject that you will not let rest. The over-riding themes in your posts are claims that success is within the reach of all people and those who fail to achieve success, in your mind, have not worked hard enough.
      
      Educators and sociologists have challenged this notion for decades. Unfortunately, these trained professionals are shouted down for not being “politically correct.” Contrary to your assertions, all people are not created equal in terms of their education, intelligence, background, organizational skills, motivation, and opportunities.
      
      Research, some of which has already been brought to your attention, continues to reveal how success is the result of several interconnecting links, provided by nature and nurturing, all pulling in unison. The ultimate level of personal prosperity is limited by the weakest link in the chain and a volume of fuzzy anecdotes does not alter this reality.
      
      Despite the controversies swirling around The Bell Curve, published in 1994 by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray, one of their observations rings true even today:  “It is time for America once again to try living with inequality, as life is lived: understanding that each human being has strengths and weaknesses, qualities we admire and qualities we do not admire, competencies and incompetencies, assets and debits; that the success of each human life is not measured externally but internally; that all of the rewards we can confer on each other, the most precious is a place as a valued fellow citizen." {1}
      
      Those who are unable to grasp the realities facing the less fortunate in our midst will continue to promote the false generalization that desire and effort alone can achieve economic independence.   
      
      Have a great Labor Day, GM.
      
      {1} http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/bellcurve.shtml#part1

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         screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         @Quilligrapher, well stated!

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            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Good evening all,   even though I was born into advantageous circumstances, my parents were not.   They were born poor, impoverished in fact.   They studied and work smart to get out of poverty.   They, especially my late father who was even more impoverished than my mother, inculcated me that if one wants something, he/she must take responsibility for his/her life, study, plan, and work smart for it.    He also taught me that NO ONE OWES ANYONE ANYTHING, GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES, and BLESSED IS THE CHILD WHO HAS HIS/HER OWN.      He informed that the reason why many of the poor in the United States are the way they are because they want others to rescue them instead of lifting themselves by their bootstraps and earning their way. 
            
            In high school,   there were a rew students from working class and lower socioeconomic backgrounds.   These students did not have the poverty mentality.    These girls(all girl school) knew that they did not want to be poor all their lives, they studied and some worked after school to supplement their families' income.     They did this without complaining.    These young women after high school attended college and went on achieve what they set out to do.    There was a woman I know from a quite impoverished family who is a dentist.   She worked for what she wanted and took responsibility for her life. 
            
            Yes, I was born advantageous, nothing is wrong with that.   I appreciate it and am quite thankful.   However, there were my parents and those extended family members who came from poor to impoverished conditions and they are now middle to upper middle class because they refused to whine, make excuses, take responsibility for their lives, and worked smart for what they wanted.    If more people stopped commiserating about their than positive situation, they could achieve more.   
            
            I remember a valuable lesson at my first job.   There was a young woman who had advanced degrees and she was a clerk.   She was CONSTANTLY complaining about being a clerk.   Then one day, another clerk with a 9th grade education proclaimed to her that the former was a clerk because SHE WANTED TO and IF SHE WANTED A BETTER JOB, SHE WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY WHINING, WHINING  about her job.    This clerk was spot-on.     Shut up complaining and go after it!
            
            Mom Kat, you are  an example of a person who is a go-getter, fighter, and survivor.  You took responsibility for your life!  I applaud you.  You overcame!   You refused to let your impoverished beginnings deter you from achieving and being the great person you are.    You are admirable.    People from poor to impoverished beginnings, especially in the United States and Canada, can achieve more if they are determined to do so.    It can be arduous and difficult at times but it can be done!    I want more poor people to be successful and to utilize their human potential.    No one should be left behind!

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               Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You seem to think people are arguing against work ethic, effort, discipline, and sacrifice. Nobody is doing that. What we are saying is that, despite all the great examples of how it is possible to escape the tar pit of poverty, there are other examples where it's not so SIMPLE.
               
               You are making this big, broad brushed argument that all some kid who's father was shot before he was born, and his mother was on crack while he was in the womb, so now he has some cognitive wiring issues, can just, despite the fact his mother never sent him to school after those seven kids nearly beat him to death in fifth grade when they found out he was reading, go ahead and take his fourth grade education (that didn't stick because of the damage he got in-utero) and pull himself up to a job standing over a dentists chair fixing teeth.
               
               He's never even seen a dentist. He can't even conceive of that dream. He doesn't have time to dream. His Mama is telling him to go to the store, and the pusher on the street corner is making him mule stuff across town or he'll be beaten again. Plus, there's probably someone else telling him Jesus loves him so he needs to get to church on sunday and put his pittance in the plate, so he loses cash and time.  But yeah, no problem, he can just put in some harder work and he'll be fine.
               
               You honestly think it's "that simple" for that guy to just fix it all?
               
               Since we're using anecdotes to "prove" everything here... When I decided it was time to quit farting around and go get my degree, it took me thirteen years of night school to finish a bachelor's and master's program. THIRTEEN years, plus working full time and doing the rest of the things people do. Thirteen years and I had finished high school with good grades and several AP classes under my belt as a kid. So, given that I was at the top end coming out of high school, how long does it take a guy with dyslexia, an IQ of 93, and a partial fourth grade education to get his graduate degree? If every four years of school is, by the scale of my experience, 7.5 at night, that person has THIRTY years of education to "catch up" to where I am, and I barely qualify as "middle class" and probably don't actually, if I looked up annual income definitions. So, let's say he was like me, and was 32 when he decided to start back... he'd be 62 by the time he became qualified to go get the supposedly good jobs you can get if you have a college degree or two. Sixty Two. And now he can enter the work force.
               
               Even if that guy was interested in doing all that, who would? Thirty years of academic discipline so you can start on the ground floor when everyone else is thinking about retirement?
               
               You have a good point that work ethic matters. You are also right that a lot of people could pull themselves up if they stopped whining and just did it. But you gloss over a massive truth in the case of millions of others. Pretending there aren't real obstacles and real issues in society is not the way to solving things.

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                  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You should seriously be teaching sociology courses. 
                  
                  I'd just like to add, although I'm sure it will be ignored by most, that lack of a college education does NOT make a person unintelligent OR uneducated.  My mother graduated high school and took a handful of college courses.  She did not have a degree.  She read like a fiend and took every opportunity to educate herself about anything and everything.  To date, she remains one of the most brilliant women I've ever known.
                  
                  Thankfully, she passed that desire for knowledge on to me, and I am also an intelligent women with the capacity to educate myself for maybe a few dollars in "late fees at the public library," rather than the tens of thousands of dollars a year that it might cost me to go to college.
                  
                  Please don't misunderstand.  I believe in the value of a college education and would love to pursue one.   I do not, however, feel intimidated around those with degrees, and can easily hold my own in conversation with them any day of the week.  If a conversation takes a turn toward a subject about which I'm ignorant, I'm perfectly capable of increasing my knowledge in that subject without having to have it spoon fed to me in a classroom.
                  
                  With all due respect, poor does not equal unintelligent. 
                  
                  Circumstances such as those described by Shades are perfectly legitimate.  I think too many people, though, treat those without monetary success as idiots, when in truth, they may simply have different priorities.  Most great writers and artists over time were not wealthy or affluent during their lifetimes, but they sure as hell made GREAT contributions to society.  Money is not the be all and end all measurement of a human being's success.

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                     Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, my point wasn't that college is the only avenue. I was pitting anecdote to anecdote. There are good tradesman jobs that pay awesome as well (assuming you can find one in this economy... although you could just start your own business as the founding father's intended--they'd have a cow if they heard all this "jobs" business we have going on right now, but I risk another diatribe). Intelligence is not the product of education, I readily admit that. Intelligence is one's capacity to process and access information. The higher the intelligence the more information can be handled. It's like having the ability to juggle. The smarter your are, the more objects you can have in the air. You are not born with objects to juggle, however, so, the way I see it, education is where you get your tennis balls, apples, burning torches and chainsaws over time. Education gives you access to lots of cool things to use as options in the act of life.

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                        Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I should have been clearer, Shades.  Most of that post wasn't directed at you specifically.  It was directed to the OP.  Nearly EVERY post of hers in regard to education, poverty....blah, blah, blah.  I'm getting annoyed by the condescending tone of the majority of them.
                        
                        As usual, you made a fantastic point (or several) that I used as a jumping off point to add something to the conversation.
                        
                        Hope you didn't feel that I was getting froggy with you. 
                        
                        Mostly, I think her original thesis that the poor are envious of the rich, not because they're rich, but because the poor are too stupid and lazy and whiny to go after what the rich have.  Some of us don't want it.
                        
                        

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                           Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I may be mistaken but I think it was the OP who started a thread a while back saying C students in high school did not belong in University. For one who had a C average for most of my high school career and graduated from college with honours I had to disagree with that. Like becoming rich, there are many factors that make for a successful or unsuccessful student.

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                              Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              She's also posted about how a girl from an affluent family should never enter into a relationship with a boy from a poor one.  Ultimately, it seems as though every post is intended to put forth the point that affluence and higher education are all that make a human being worth something.
                              
                              My income falls at around 200% of the poverty level, but I am not poor by any means.  I live within my means, have everything I need, and much of what I want, and enjoy the pursuit of many of the things I love. 
                              
                              I'm sick to death of the tone of the posts, I think, but I'm doing the best I can to be respectful of Ms. Williams's right to her opinions.  I don't like the tone of her posts that seem to indicate that her opinions are irrefutable facts.

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                                 kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I think gmwilliams is trying to say that if you work hard and make the right decisions in life, you can get whatever you want (be that becoming rich). It is a strong opinion, but not an incorrect one.

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                                    Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    It's not a strong opinion, it's a platitude.

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                                       kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       And that, good sir, is your opinion

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                                          gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          Kathleen, it seems that it is easier to make excuses as to why one CAN'T rather to assess the situation and realize that one CAN with the proper assessment, planning, and smart work.   Kathleen, many people are well just............refuse to acknowledge and recognize!   Yes, it may be harder for some than for others,  I am not refuting that; however, if one really want to achieve, they CAN!    My parents and some of my extended family members who were Southern migrants and West Indian immigrants did it!  Some of the girls from lower middle income, working class, and lower income backgrounds did it-all refused to let their backgrounds and naysayers stopped them from attending college and having lucrative careers!    Some of these girls DID MUCH BETTER than many who came from more advantageous backgrounds!

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                                          Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          plat·i·tude (pl t -t d , -ty d ). n. 1. A trite or banal remark or statement, especially one expressed as if it were original or significant.

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                                             kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             Thanks for the vocab lesson. Doesn't change that using that word to describe the OP is your personal opinion. I do not share this opinion.

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                                                Shadesbreathposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                That wasn't in response to the OP, it was in response to this:
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                The text I bolded is the platitude I was referring to.
                                                
                                                Not even saying you didn't break down the OP pretty succinctly, but, when you boil it down like that, you reveal the platitudinous nature of it.
                                                
                                                Which has been my point all along. It is too simplistic to think everyone can just "Buck up and get to it" as easy as some glib remark. For lots of people, yes. The lazy ones, the takers... the people least likely to listen to such a vacant statement, even if it is "true" in its small, small way. So sure, we agree on some. For others, however, there are psychological issues and local-culture issues that make it more complicated than merely a matter of being exhorted to action by the oh-so-insightful call to action of "just do it!" To suggest that it is universally simple to extricate one's self from poverty, for all people no matter what their individual circumstances, mental acuity and personal history, is ridiculous and speaks of a astounding lack of cultural, social, psychological, and even anthropological awareness. That was my point.

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                                                   kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Fair enough.
                                                   
                                                   But you are extrapolating a lot, here. Nobody said that working hard was easy, or even easily accessible. For many, it is not. For many, the first step is asking for help.
                                                   
                                                   But there are also a great many who do not take the initiative. I think that is the purpose of this post.

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                              Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              BTW, C's don't indicate that a student is unintelligent or incapable of handling college coursework.  Is there any accounting for learning disabilities, poor instruction, or anything else?  There have been men in the white house who held C averages IN COLLEGE.

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                              kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I had a 1.7 GPA in high school. I ended up with a 3.3 in community college and a 2.9 in university. High school is not an accurate measure of people's abilities.

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                                 thelizposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Totally lucid.  Throughout my pre-college school years I had majority A's with a few B's and occasional C in math only, graduating with a 3.8 GPA and recorded an abysmal 1.3 my first semester of college.  Once again, people aren't taking in to account the reality that the converse of their argument is true and has ample evidence, both factual and anecdotal to support it.

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                                    kathleenkatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Wow, what did I do to deserve that?
                                    
                                    I do take into the account the reality that there are people with opposite experiences than me in academia. It just has nothing to stating my personal GPAs, sorry.

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                                       thelizposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Sorry, I meant you were lucid and the one to whom you were responding (our friend who started this thread) was not taking into account two sides to every story!

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         Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         +1, Quill!  Well said.

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   Sunnie Dayposted 11 years ago

   I had four kids and they wanted cars..well mommie worked as a nurse and daddy a correctional officer and with teens back to back it was not happening we told them.....you want a car then get a job..Make sure you can put gas in it and pay insurance. Each one got a job and paid for their own vehicles..did we help if their hours were cut one or two times..sure...but I have to say. they are now adults, who work hard for what they want..and do not depend on mommie and daddy to bail them out..It does not mean we would not be there for them or help them...we would as we know they give it their best..

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are right as usual.     So many people want to be socioeconomically rescued.    Where is their backbone?  They look at those more successful, thinking that these people did not have to endure what they are enduring instead of working, planning, and strategizing what they want and achieve.   America has become a sorrowful state of affairs.   The work ethic is slowly be flushed down the toilet-capitalism and free enterprise is now being derided as evil, corrupt, and exploitative instead of being embraced.   It seems that the socialist and the welfare state mindsets are slowly coming into being.  A very sad state of affairs indeed!   This nation has devolve from a can-do nation to an excuses, excuses galore nation!

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         Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No, so many people just want to be economically independent. I take it you have no idea what it's like having to survive on handouts when you'd much rather be productive and self sufficient?

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   eternals3ptemberposted 11 years ago

   gmwilliams, have you ever been poor?

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      screamingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Looking at gmwilliams bio, he had a leg up most didn't have.He had a private school education from the elementary to the university level.  This would benefit most given the same opportunity.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Work is, of course, actually a four letter word.

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      WryLiltposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      

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      Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      

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   Mom Katposted 11 years ago

   We can't look down on those who have been given a "gifted" or easy life.  It isn't their fault they were an only child of well off parents.  It wasn't their fault that they were raised in a better neighborhood or that their friends were from the same class as they were.
   
   Yes, it is difficult for someone who never had to face real struggle to imagine what it would be like.
   
   I was raised in poverty, abused physically, emotionally, and mentally from a very early age. I was told that I was worthless by my family.  I had to start working at age 13 in order to earn money to ensure that I would have food to eat.  I had to bike 4 miles into town, and back home again to get to work because my single mother wasn't going to drive my worthless butt anywhere.
   I suffered from an eating disorder, mental illnesses, and suicidal thoughts.  Before I reached adulthood I had tried to take my life twice, which only made me feel like more of a failure because I couldn't even get that right.
   Flash forward to today - I have a great family.  I have a great man.  I have my self-esteem and self-worth in check.  I have empathy, courage, and strength.  I may still need a little help from time to time, but that doesn't make me worthless and it doesn't make me a loser.
   
   I feel sorry for those who have had such an easy life that they cannot relate to the struggles of others.  They have no understanding because they have never been there, never had to fight for survival, never had to worry about where their next meal would be coming from.
   
   We are each entitled to our own views and opinions.  Our past experiences play a very large part in how those views and opinions are shaped.  Rather than taking cheep shots & attacking one another, lets shoot for some understanding of where the other person is coming from.  At least then we can expand our personal growth.

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      Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Beautiful, Mom Kat!  You and I have similar backgrounds.  I thank God that I was never abused, but the poverty and learning to be self-sufficient at an early age were things I experienced as well.  As a child, I often found myself envious of those with wealth and affluence.  Growing older and learning that problems, pain, and struggle exist in every life made me realize that where I come from and where I am now aren't so bad.

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         Mom Katposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Motown
         I wouldn't wish abuse on anyone, not even my worst enemy for the sake of true understanding. 
         I do take away from it a serious respect for treating others right and knowing the damage that can be done if you don't. 
         I may not be rich, but I know what really matters & what is truly important in life.  I've learned the arts of forgiveness, letting go, and moving on.  I know how to survive, but better still - how to live
         
         I am so thankful that my children will never go through what I went through as a child.  I never want them to have that level of understanding of what it is like to be treated that way.
         I am a better person & a better parent because of it though.
         I lift my children up, show them love, compassion, understanding, support, and urge them to be themselves & shoot for their dreams.
         I try to do the same for my friends as well

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            stoneyyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Differing circumstances have different effects on different people.  People can indicate examples for each as well as how they were affected.
            
            To reach a goal a person has to decide how much they want it and what they'll give up to reach it.

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Succinctly stated!

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            Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You remind me of my sister. 
            
            I like you...and offer you my sincerest respect.
            
            
            
            So grateful that those experiences have made you better - and will make your children better than they might have been otherwise.

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Motown2Chitown and Momkat,  You women are indeed admirable and awesome to say the least.   I like you both very much, especially Motown2Chitown.    You two have demonstrated an immense human spirit and the ability to overcome many obstacles in your lives.   You two have demonstrated that one's socioeconomic background should NEVER preclude them from achieving the goals he/she wants to achieve. 
               
               As I have stated before, my parents, some members of my extended family, and some of my ex-schoolmates came from poor to impoverished backgrounds.    They have relayed many valuable lessons to me, particularly that one makes opportunities and that socioeconomic background is a total non-issue regarding success.   They also made the prerequisite sacrifices needed to be successful.   My mother and some schoolmates worked their way through high school, nursing school, college/university, and graduate school.   They had a no-excuse philosophy.   They informed me that if one wanted success bad enough, it can be obtained.   They TAUGHT me this.   I remember as a child, I read an article which stated that poor people simply do not succeed and  I showed this article to my mother.   She showed me instances of many poor people who did succeed despite the odds.
               
               I was just addressing the book by Malcolm Gladwell which stated that wealthier people had the opportunities that poor people did which explains why the former succeed whereas the latter did not.    I contended that there were poor people who did succeed; however the others did not because of a different mindset.    Many books have addressed the issue which I will go into now.   However, I strongly portend that socioeconomic background is a total non-issue regarding success.  I want like to add that many poorer children have the resilience, stamina, and preservance to succeed and often outsucceed those who come from more advantageous backgrounds!

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                  Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you, gmwilliams. 
                  
                  

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You are QUITE welcome.   I am so sick of many people, especially from my socioeconomic background, who state that poor people do not succeed.  Now THAT makes my blood boil and I REALLY HAVE TO GO THERE!   Have a lovely day!

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      Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Very well stated, Mom Kat, and you are a very strong person. Congratulations on beating the odds - you deserve all the joy you have had, as does everyone.

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   kathleenkatposted 11 years ago

   Hmm.. I have lived in all walks of life. I have survived off of little (by little, I mean ~$250/week). Yet, I lived within my means, and did not go into debt. I was comfortable.
   
   I have also survived, as a teenager, having had the opportunity to be sent to private school for one year. Those private school kids weren't very nice to me when they found out I was from public school, and dressed in Wal Mart clothing.
   
   My folks would fluctuate between having money, and not having a lot to spare. One year or two, my dad had a hobby of flying planes. Another year, we had to sell our house to pay for ...well, everything. Then my dad found a new job.
   
   
   These experiences have made me really appreciate that working hard DOES get you somewhere. I stuck through college, and along with that shiny piece of paper on my wall, I am now qualified for the job I have. It's also my ticket to graduate school. I started working at 15, and have been saving ever since. Now I have a 'nest egg' to put as a down payment on a home.
   
   I worked hard. I may have had advantages, but I also had disadvantages. I know what it's like to be living paycheck-by-paycheck, and I also know what it's like to have more money to spare than to spend.
   
   
   
   In sum, I agree with gmwilliams.
   
   Not because he has "liked" almost all of my posts, but because he knows what he's talking about: You have to own your own life. Take ownership. That is the first step to success.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Kathleen, PREACH on, my sister!     Kathleen, you know firsthand while I know secondhand.   In essence, your firsthand knowledge outranks my secondhand knowledge.  I am now going to give the floor to you.   Kathleen, please educate some of THESE people that one CAN instead of CAN'T!
      
      As my mother so eloquently stated that if she could get out of poverty, then THERE IS NO EXCUSE that more poor people can't get out of poverty!   She was the daughter of poor Southern sharecroppers at the time of a SEGREGATED SOUTH!   GREAT WORDS OF WISDOM, MOM!   Good and a Blessed Night to all and have a wonderful Labor Day!

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