Recorded words of Jesus (Yeshua) ?

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   quietnessandtrustposted 13 years ago

   The words written that Jesus (Yeshua) spoke that are recorded as we know them, do you think He said any lies?

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      Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, of course not. But then, Jesus didn't write anything. His followers wrote what he said, and that, of course, could be flawed (and probably is).

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         quietnessandtrustposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         He actually did write something sir, remember when they brought Him the woman who was caught in adultery?...
         (interesting they did not bring the man too)...
         so when they all stood around waiting for His judgement, He stooped down and wrote in the dirt. But alas, I say the obvious in jest sir.
         
         So, the question still stands, do you think the
         "recorded words of Yeshua"...
         the ones others wrote that He "supposedly said"...contain any lies.
         
         I only ask because you said they probably contain flaws.
         What are the flaws in your opinion sir?

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            Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Clever about the writing in sand. I'm sure he did write things. Too bad nothing was preserved somehow.
            
            I personally don't have any way to really prove my opinions, but it I think some things just didn't happen at all. I think others were grossly exaggerated to instill "faith." Some of the writings border on magic, not miracles. If the premise of Christ's ministry is "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself," there's a lot of superstition and magic in places. Love doesn't need magic or superstition to be perpetuated.
            
            I don't want to cite examples because on a person to person basis, many could be offended, and I'm not into doing that purposely. Each person is entitled to follow the path they need to.

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               Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Biblical scholars have actually found photographic evidence from that time....
               
               

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                  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  NOW you tell me. Sheesh.
                  One of the mysteries of the kingdom revealed.
                  
                  I see we have clear evidence of the style of sandal worn in the day as well...

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                     Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     i can't confirm the sandals worn by any given individual

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think so and I don't think that the disciples did either.
        And for the most part they are represented in the cannon fairly well.
      
        But ??? We need to cut back a little on the interpretations.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend quietnessandtrust
      
      There is perhaps only one sentence from Jesus recorded in his own language Hebrew or Aramaic, which he spoke while he was on the Cross. He asked the Creator-God Allah YHWH to save his life; and the truthful God Allah YHWH saved his life and he did not die on the Cross. Alas for the Christians, they don't believe him.Do they ?
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Paar,
         
         Show us this EXACT text he ASKS to be spared, please.
         Either Matthew or Mark -or both will suffice.
         
         Thanks.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hi friend Twenty One Days
            
            Jesus wanted from the Creator- God Allah YHWH that his life should be saved from a cursed death; that is why he uttered the following words while he was on the Cross:
            
            Matthew 27:46
            "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"
            
            This is the only sentence Jesus spoke from his mouth in his Aramaic language which has been recorded by the Bible; the rest are only translations or mistranslation having on original to support and verify as to the correctness .
            
            The Creator- God Allah YHWH; due to his righteousness heard his prayers done on the Cross and earlier supplication he made to the Creator -God Allah YHWH whole night in the garden of Gethsemane; he also asked his disciples to pray for him but they obeyed him little as per the Bible.
            
            Thanks
            
            I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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               Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               so again, where did he ASK to be removed?
               he cried out, yes, but it does not translate to "get me off of here".
               
               Also, after losing nearly his entire blood supply, before being hung on the tree, then attached with nails, hanging in the blazing desert sun...exactly HOW and what documentation states they "let him down and in his condition, with no witnesses, hopped a boat to India and died??? (There is a better chance of a flying spaghetti monster coming up out of Loch Ness).
               
               Besides, I take it you have not read the 10 NON BIBLICAL, NON TORAH, NON QURAN, documented references I gave you which state he died in Jerusalem. Joseph of Aramathea is then escorted by the Roman Guard to a tomb which he donated for them to use. I see no reason the Roman, Greek, Arab & East Asian historians, satirists and writers, would lie about something like that.

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               Allan Bogleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Where on earth did you get this from?

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                  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Just read the Bible; yourself.
                  
                  Thanks

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      Isabelle Eslingposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Yeshua is the Truth. He powerfully encountered my path. Whether people believe or not, Yeshua is Lord.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Flaws? Sure, how about some of the words were mixed up and/or left out, so ambiguity can set in and force an individual to use their faith against their own existence.
   
   So, about right? Lies- Absolutely in the written form of religious scripture. Words and sentences were purposely missing out words that gave better context for better meanings.
   
   And, yes- it's fact that the church, ended Jesus' life and stole his teachings for their own use.
   
   That is truth, reinforced by ancient world historical knowledge.

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      quietnessandtrustposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Please site what lies Yeshua supposedly said sir.
      
      Mixed up words and all if you would be so kind.
      
      I am interested in the written words that He was reported to have said that are in someones opinion to be a lie.
      
      Nothing more.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Read your bible. Jesus' work, as I have said before, was not about religion or any "god".
         
         If you understand anything about Jesus, his work was about bestowing knowledge of life, so people could understand it's meaning, for which, he found to be truth.
         
         It was not linked to any "god". His work was taught in code, as I stated in another forum thread. God- the metaphor wrongly perceived.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Did Jesus have a theology just like yours.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you must know... Yes!
               
               (A)  You are to be self-responsible. This is in reference to your thoughts and actions.
               
               (B)  You are to be honest with yourself and others. This means that you are not deceitful, dishonesty with both yourself or others. You can not escape your life or your own conscience.  Do not think you can.
               
               (C)  You are always to preserve Life, yours and others. You are to value ALL Life above all else.

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                  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I do admire your honesty.

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Jerami, it comes from what I learned about religion. Specifically, study of it's doctrines and the historical events that occurred during the time in which Jesus lived.
                     
                     Many things are taken into account, other than what is found inside the words of the bible. If you just use the bible as a solitary truth, then it is those people who deceive themselves or fool(if you will) themselves into believing they have the complete truth.
                     
                     When in fact, they only have partial truth, because things have been mixed up, which happened when Jesus' work was incorporated into it's own religion.

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   kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

   lies?
   
   hmmm..........
   
   LMFAO
   
   

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   kessposted 13 years ago

   When are we going to stop fighting over written  words which change in meaning according to thedifferent  desires of the hearing of the various ears.why not seek instead of the speaking of the spirit of the inward truth which makes all things plain and simple and cannot lie,now nor ever

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   Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

   We do not know if what Jesus said was true or false.  We only have hearsay evidence to judge him by.  This has always been the case and nothing has changed.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Randy, I don't mean to pry, but when all said and done, everything ever written on any combination of paper, parchment, toilet paper, is all part of ancient world history.
      
      Albeit, some ancient religious historical stuff is mixed in, however, it does not diminish the facts that the written material, does indeed actually exist.
      
      Some people question the translation or the interpretation, but they do not deny the existence of said material.
      
      To cast each piece, as you say, as heresy and nothing more, actually limits the understanding of our entire existence, as a whole.
      
      Just a thought.

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         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Not heresy, Cags!  Hearsay!  You know, as in the Gospel ACCORDING to John, Luke, Mark, etc.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      we don't? Says who? Oh the bible thing? Please, if you (plural) actually take the 'time' to ask {in accordance to His perception} you might be pleasantly surprised with the outcome. in spite of what the books say.
      
      Raymond's notion of this 'self' responsibility is good, but naive in premise. Because people need people to help each other. Family, relationships, etc. else it becomes a selfish quest under the guise of selflessness. To thine own self be true -GREAT! Now go help someone else be true as well...

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         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "His perception"?  Who is he?  All we have is a common person's hearsay statements on what "his" perception is.  How does one separate the "wheat from the chaff?"  Pray for guidance?  Listen to what other common men think is right?  Nothing definite in any of that. 
         
         The guidance obtained by prayer is usually remarkably similar to what the pray-er wanted to hear in the first case in many instances. 
         
         I once knew a very respected (by his congregation) minister whose daughter conceived(not immaculate by any stretch) out of wedlock.  He stood up in front of the church and said the Lord told him to take charge of a new church in another state.
         
         His present church had a huge following and paid a very huge salary and also included a nice home.  The new church was small and his new home was just not what his family was used to.  Low and behold, the Lord changed his mind after the baby was born and the daughter made an honest woman.
         
         The minister was told by God to return back to his huge church, so the minister announced.   The Lord has a tough time making up his mind it seems.  LOL!

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            Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Randy, you thoroughly missed my point.
            It has nothing to do with supposition and everything to do with reality. If you apply esoteric, empirical, sensational or equated knowledge to the aforementioned, no pure truth can come about.
            
            This is my meaning of naive.
            Had Raymond or you or myself solely absorbed information, then applied that information for our self purposes, then we have only engaged the premise of Jesus based on that information -accurate or otherwise. But, to seek out the Truth -apart from the man AND works- is an all together different thing.
            
            common or elite, makes no difference -both are subject to selfishness.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Interesting...something to ponder....?

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               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You have your idea of reality and I have mine.  The same also goes for "pure truth."
               
               I tend to go for known truths, not something someone supposedly wrote which someone else may have said or just may have been false.  And you can speak of naivety as if you are alone in not experiencing it yourself. LOL!
               
               Have you gained your knowledge for someone other than yourself?  Who are you hoping to satisfy with your search for answers if not yourself?  Whether we like it or not, it is a basic human survival instinct to satisfy oneself.  This isn't being selfish, it is just part of being human. 
               
               It would be great to be able to give everyone good advice about Jesus and religious accuracy.  Unfortunately, neither you, I, or anyone else on these forums knows no more than the other about the truth of the man or his works.  And that is truly a shame.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So, I take it you are not open to those answers coming forth now?   You do realize, all truths become known. Only times matters for which is when they become revealed to everyone.
                  
                  As for your view about "reality". I disagree. Reality is the same for everyone. The circumstances/situation of that reality is what you perceive as part of your individual perspective of reality.
                  
                  Reality exists free of thought, desire, will or wishes. Reality is all knowable.

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                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     No, I do not realize "all truths become known."  Sounds good, but there are many truths which may never become known.  Simply because there is no way of knowing all truths.  The same goes for the falseness of reality.  Some will never come to light.

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Hey Randy, I take it you are normally this difficult.
                        
                        Here is an example of what I am talking about "all truths become known", ever tell a lie, but later that lie was revealed for what it was..a lie. The revelation is truth.
                        
                        Hence, the saying-'what goes around, what comes around'. Truth always comes back to bite you. There is TRUTH in the lie. What truth? The truth will always expose a the lie. Time is the only factor.
                        
                        Truth is not subjective or subjected to one's perspective. And, to think that truth is is limiting of your own understanding of life.

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                           Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes Cags, I understand your point but I deal in known truths, not truths to be known at a later date.  LOL!

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                           alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Of course truth is subjective - anyone can find a truth, but it is just a set of ideas in our head that seems to answer many questions. Then there is how we perceive it, this is also subjective.
                           
                           and a lie contains a bit of truth and truth a bit of lie, it is how people get to believe your lies, and why your truths are never objective.
                           
                           in fact there is no objective either - but that is another similar story.

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                  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  reality -by human perception- is limited, you know this. It is the equal to eating various chocolates and taking a sh!te after, yes?
                  
                  I rarely 'search' for answers. Why? Because they are evident, same as questions. Identical. Can you actually sit and justify that kind of apathy and not 'feel' some kind of bad taste. Seriously.
                  I was the epitome of sarcasm, disbelief and ambiguity. Purity doesn't need questions/answers. It doesn't need at all. Brilliant and ironic at the same time. Philo shows this. It shows how silly and pointless the banter of our own heads and arguments (which aren't really arguments, only pseudo depositions of our opinions) with or without sensational interpolation.
                  
                  Despite every discretion, purity cannot be defined within the stasis of human necessity. The need itself defines the limitation.

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                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I can believe you rarely search for answers.   Eating chocolates and taking a crap?  Seriously?  Philosophize to someone else, perhaps you can impress them with your posts.  Me, I'm bored with this BS.

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                        Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Randy, that is the core of the human condition -sorry to be blunt.
                        You say boredom, only because the scope of applied considerations has become pointless, mute and otherwise useless. Which accounts for most humans. Things do not go they way 'they perceive' or 'desire' and automatically are dismissed -like both religions of equation & sensation. But the expressive -without applying either- is relevant.
                        
                        In short, step outside your mind and taste the difference.
                        The truth you are looking for can be found, be applied now. Future/past are identical. What is known is no different that what will be known. Knowledge is itself. Wisdom is itself. The difference is in the assumption/necessity v the reality.

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                           Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           No thanks!  But what do you know about warts?

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   It was typo Randy.. OOPS! But, still the fact remains. The existence is still apart of our knowledge about who we are as a species. Sorry, it still counts in the overall big picture, so to say.

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      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do agree ancient writings claiming to reference the words of Jesus are in existence.  Whether they actually relate true events is another story.  In a few hundred years "The World According To Garp" will have some historical significance, but it will still be fiction.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Correct! There are some of the stuff that is fiction and some of it that is not.

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         Vladimir Uhriposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         When I visited Israel I seen Dead Sea Scrolls in National Museum in Jerusalem. There is one complete manuscript of Isaiah prophet. It is identical with Old Testament document. Second is identical copy of Gospel of Luke.
         Why we have to doubt everything? If we believe Yeshuah is the Messiah, then we have to know purpose of His coming. If He has to redeem us from the sin and pay the price then He could not lie. Hell would keep Him in permanently. 
         He told us all truth what we need. By the way anyone can test the Word of God. I did.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Naive?
   
   If that's how you see it. I'm saddened by your outlook. But, is interesting I might add.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Don't be sad, be open. Even the most acute mind can perceive that selfishness is a waste of existence. So, whatever knowledge or experience you possess should be freely given to all of humanity in order they too can be enlightened. This WAS the work of Jesus. Plus the authority He came in -which He clearly defined and expressed -of whom you claim not to believe in.
      
      To tell anyone to 'find out for yourself' or 'you don't understand' without supplying adequate and valuable alternatives -which benefit everyone in humanity- is completely selfish, narcissistic, lonely and prideful.
      
      One would expect you, of all people, speaking the way you do, to be liberated from passive anarchy and express a humanistic net worth exceeding yourself...

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I do not know if your intent was is to say that I believe in Jesus or not? I do not believe in Jesus.
         
         However, my study of religion showed me his teachings. I understand even more than you realize(but I would figure that you would dismiss it as my ego). And, it's not.
         
         
         I'm not sure what or where this statement came from. Most likely from one of our conversation before perhaps. But, I get the point.
         And, believe it or not, to me...this statement made no sense. Sorry, not that educated to decipher what you said. And, honestly- I read 4 times.

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            Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps its your "naivety" which prevents you from understanding Cags!  No wait, it's your "selfishness."  No wait again, it's your lack of "pure truth!"  LOL!  Internet philosophers!  Whoo!

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hey wait a minute....
               
               Are you categorizing me as a philosopher? I hope not.

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                  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Of course not!  Perhaps a Feelassafar, though!

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     

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   quietnessandtrustposted 13 years ago

   I might have missed it, but did anyone find a lie that He was reported to have said?

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sure, just about all of it! What he is supposed to have said about prayer for example. Genuine one owner lies that are provable as lies.

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   LeanManposted 13 years ago

   There are of course no lies in the bible, everything is 100% true and Jesus was just a really cool dude who could do no wrong.. Oh and in the interests of peace the other prophet who wrote that other cool book, PBUH... he was a real lovely chap too...
   
   
                LM, Peace loving taker of the proverbial..

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