Beyond Furious

1. 96

   EricDockettposted 8 years ago

   I've about had it with the over-reaching, manipulative, short-sighted polices HubPages has enacted over the past few months. This morning I find three of my Hubs have been "snipped". The moderator has removed several products which get regular sales.
   
   In other words, they make money for me AND FOR HUBPAGES!
   
   One Hub averages over 100 visitors a day and ranks highly for a handful of significant keywords. It has been featured in its current state for well over a year.
   
   The snipping thing, I thought, was supposed to be for Hubs that would otherwise be featured but can't pass QAP because of a misused product. My Hubs hardly meet that criteria.
   
   It seems, as I feared, that snipping is just another way for HP to manipulate our content against our will.
   
   In my almost 4 years on this site I have over 300 total published Hubs which have amassed nearly six million views. I think I have proven I know how to write online. I am beyond furious that HP is once again messing with my Hubs when there is so much garbage on this site that needs attention.
   
   It's no wonder that the writers who know what they are doing are leaving this site in droves. It makes me very sad to say it, but I may not be far behind them.

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   1. 86

      Robinposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There is a method to our madness.    Please check out our blog post today.  Your Hubs were snipped so they could be moved.

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      1. 89

         Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I've been snipped will soon be a proud boast, lol.

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      2. 87

         Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         So you're saying that those links won't be allowed on the new sites?  Or will they be reinstated once the Hubs are moved?
         
         If they're not going to be reinstated once the Hubs are moved, then his complaint stands.

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      3. 70

         makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I've always had a policy of "touch my hubs and watch them disappear off this site". I am the author and I decide what they contain.
         
         If HubPages can't take the time out to explain to an author why changes have been made to their content - with reasons - then they don't deserve to host the content.
         
         I have been referencing the concept of partnership elsewhere. It's a BUSINESS concept that I think HubPages would do well to have a long hard think about if it wants to retain content on this or any other site.

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      4. 96

         EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Robin. I appreciate that, I guess. I don't know that it makes me feel any better. It still don't understand why a moderator would intentionally remove sales capsules that are converting.
         
         I have a few Hubs that could have been "snipped" and I may have seen the logic of it. But removing capsules that produce revenue for me and for you just seems insane. Especially when these links obviously have not hurt the ranking of the page.

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         1. 87

            Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            That's what worries me, Eric.   WHY would the products need to be snipped to enable the Hub to be moved to the new site? 
            
            Is it for some technical reason, and they'll be reinstated after they're moved?   I can't see why that would be necessary, but let's hear the explanation if that's the case.
            
            But if it's NOT a technical reason, then what Marina is saying is that the capsules would've been OK on the old HubPages, but they won't be acceptable on the new site.   
            
            Does that mean there won't be any Amazon capsules on the new site?  Or that the rules around them will be even more restrictive than here?  Either way your complaint stands - it will severely limit our ability to earn income.  That worries me far more.

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            1. 96

               EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Two of my Hubs that were snipped lost one product each. In both cases they were informational products and not deeply important to the content of the Hub. While they did occasionally convert, and I do think they are useful for the reader, I am willing to accept HP's advice and see how the Hub does without them.
               
               The third Hub has over 2100 words and 4 products. HP snipped two products and left two, so it seems Amazon will be acceptable on the new sites at least to some extent.
               
               We're always told to write for the reader, and this Hub offered very specific advice on how to solve very specific problems, and then offered very specific products. Based on its ranking and sales, readers clearly found it helpful. Without those products, I would not be fully helping the reader solve their problem.
               
               HP apparently had some predetermined number in mind when removing Amazon ads. They were ignoring their own advice. They weren't thinking of the reader. They seemed to be simply going by a mindset that allowed X number of Amazon ads.
               
               I don't know what is going to happen with the new sites, but I really hope HP considers calling off this witch hunt on Amazon ads. Without applying the proper logic to the issue they are only hurting Hubbers and themselves, and in many cases making Hubs less valuable to the reader.

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               1. 70

                  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  The simple answer is that given the annihilation on advertising income caused by the use of mobile devices and the increasing use of adblockers, if HubPages does not pay attention to Amazon income it will be critically undermining its income streams and a sustainable future.
                  
                  You however can take your content elsewhere and use as many Amazon products as you think are appropriate and see what happens.
                  
                  I think Google is far more concerned with topical relevance and the amount of original content which surrounds amazon modules. It does after all derive the bulk of its income from advertising so I think they're likely to know what works.

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                  1. 81

                     Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     The new makes of mobiles can now display adverts quite well.  I think this will make HubPages very rich.

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                     1. 70

                        makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        and the new apps which block them work very well too!

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                        1. 88

                           mattforteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           To be fair - adblocks on cell phones are pretty niche. They aren't nearly as popular as they are on desktop/laptops.

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                  2. 88

                     mattforteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     If you think Adblocks can't block Amazon ads just as well as other ads, then you don't understand Adblocks very well.
                     
                     Also, the "I am the author I say what goes" is a pretty silly mentality. While I do agree that HP is pretty poorly managed...their policies are fairly clear and easy to conform to.

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               2. 87

                  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes Eric, I've had exactly the same thing happen - I've been unable to get Hubs through QAP without removing products that are specifically mentioned in the text AND helpful to the reader - it does appear that they've got some secret maximum in mind (which is MUCH lower than their official ratio) and are sticking to it whatever the logic.

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      5. 85

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Could you explain this in more detail?  I don't understand why it would be necessary to snip ads just to move an article from point A to point B, especially if the ad is an earner.  Are there new rules for the niche sites?  If so, please share them with all of us.  If not, please explain your thinking on the ad issue.

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      6. 79

         Sharlee01posted 8 years agoin reply to this

         How do I check if any of my Hubs have been snipped ?

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2. 94

   Blond Logicposted 8 years ago

   I know exactly how you feel. My most successful hub is now not featured. I have one Amazon capsule which I regularly sell from and one link to Shareasale. They told me to take off the Shareasale link. The hub is over 3,000 words. My links are 'on topic' and I too am furious.
   
   This went through the hub pro edit some time ago. At that time they said, "remove all links" stating that I hadn't sold anything from them. Obviously this is a 'one size fits all'  statement because I had sold from them but they didn't check this information beforehand.  In the end, the editing was completed and I had my virtual pat on the back, or so I thought.
   
   Now, they decide to downgrade it, causing both of us to lose money.

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   1. 87

      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How could they possibly know whether you made sales on the ShareASale link?   They don't have access to your account!   
      
      Relache has a very relevant post to this on another thread:
      
      http://hubpages.com/community/forum/135 … ost2794725

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      1. 94

         Blond Logicposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Marisa,
         During the editing process we discussed what I could keep and what should be removed. At that time I told them.
         
         Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

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3. 74

   Anna Marie Bowmanposted 8 years ago

   AHHH...so many changes in the seven years since I started writing here. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with it all!!!  I was irritated about the snipping, as well. At first, it irked me, and then made me angry, because they kept changing things around, editing things without me knowing, but when I felt that the changes were warranted, I was ok with it. The ones I was unhappy with, I changed later on. I, for one, am looking forward to the changes, and hope that it helps further drive traffic. I would like to see a movie-centered niche site, as well. That would be great!!

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4. 93

   SmartAndFunposted 8 years ago

   Ohhhh nooooo here we go againnnnnnnn....

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5. 60

   Adam Harkusposted 8 years ago

   And...... it's all gone quiet again..

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6. 95

   Sue Adamsposted 8 years ago

   Maybe HP is still negotiating with advertisers re their new sites.

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   1. 84

      psycheskinnerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It seems more likely that the "necessaity" was to comply with the internal Hubpages rules this week in the eternal quest to placate the search gods.
      
      Which is a necessary thing to do, but the lack of communication about it is getting tedious. Basically we see hubs being messed with and some days, weeks, or months later get let into the reasoning behind it. Or not.
      
      Is there a reason why we can't be given the general outline of the current plan in advance? Or at least at the point in time where we are being edited into compliance with it?

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7. 88

   mattforteposted 8 years ago

   Not just furious
   
   but
   BEYOND FURIOUS!

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8. 60

   Adam Harkusposted 8 years ago

   Being a relative newcomer, I hold my hand up, I thought some of you writers were a bunch of self-righteous serial whingers. I'm beginning to see why now though. In business there's usually one big reason for a lack of communication, and that's trouble. HubPages: Would a daily or even weekly regular update really be too much trouble. I accept your hands are tied by Google, but I"m sure opening up a little more to your readers would help all the stakeholders in a business we all want to succeed.

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   1. 96

      EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Adam: If I am now a whinger I can tell you it has taken a hell of a lot for me to get to this point. Over the years I've probably been the biggest HubPages cheerleader, apologist and all-out fanboy. I really believed in this site and the management team, and despite my frustration and anger right now I still do. Or at least I want to.
      
      In fact, as recently as six months ago I would have told you it was far better to build a quality niche subdomain here on HP than mess around trying to build a WordPress site. And, I would have told you that the low expectations everyone is claiming in these forums in regard to earnings is a bunch of BS.
      
      But I don't know what the heck is going on anymore. I just know HP is making it harder and harder for me to do what I do.

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   2. 88

      mattforteposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You're right.
      
      This site is full of a bunch of self righteous peeps.
      
      However, the management decisions here have created the serial whiners.

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      1. 87

         Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I think writers are self-righteous by nature, we have to have egos to believe anyone will want to read our writing!

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         1. 85

            TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It's funny that you say that because I have always been amazed that anybody ever finds my work, let alone takes the time to read it!

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9. 59

   C.V.Rajanposted 8 years ago

   I had been a writing member of several content sites that closed in the past. It has been clear to me in every case that the site owners will sink lower and lower in their principles, ethics and policies to safeguard their own skin. Since HP survived so long while all others were sinking, I was hoping that HP would perhaps behave differently.
   
   Time has proved once again that it is not going to be so.
   
   This is the pattern of behavior I have seen in the past with other content sites:
   
   1) Keep on doing changes in strategies in desperation with a myopic vision and end up with more and more trouble
   2) Keep boasting that the changes are going to make things wonderful and all is well for writers. (and there  will be cheerleaders amidst writing members who constantly and blindly support the site owners and heckle the criticizers)
   3) Start changing the Terms and conditions of the site openly and stealthily which would  invariably be detrimental to the interests and rights of writers.
   4) Keep their heads up in pride and arrogance, refuse to see logic, while disgruntled and good writers leave the site for good
   5) Become non-communicative in Forums, as criticisms mount; block, delete posts; ban vocal members from the forums
   6) Keep on giving good hopes and keep claiming that all they do is with the best interest of writers
   
   and
   7) one fine day, announce the closure of the site!
   
   Agreed. The problem is huge; the owners have to make money and survive; it is such a pain for them to see and accept failure on something in which they have been putting their heart and soul for years. It is true that clarity of vision gets blurred in a moments of crisis.
   
   It would be really wonderful if the failure is faced with magnanimity, without losing one's principles and values; if the end comes with all the stakeholders holding their mutual goodwill and respect.
   
   Sigh.
   
   It does not happen. I have already started packing off from this site.
   
   Good bye Hubpages. Thanks for all the good things you have done in the past 6 years of my association with you.
   
   Good bye, my friends!
   
   C.V.Rajan

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   1. 85

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well, in the worst case scenario, writers have some choices.  They can create websites and/or blogs for themselves or create online  ebooks or hard copy books.  They can also sell  their articles to those willing to purchase them.
      
      Much depends on how much people want to do to be able to continue writing.
      
      All of this can be done after we see the lay of the land, as long as we have kept copies of our articles.
      
      However, I do think that if this new plan is implemented slowly and carefully, it will be a boon for certain writers here.
      
      Sorry to see you go, but I understand why you are doing it.

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   2. 92

      jansharesposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Sad to read this, C.V.Rajan. But I appreciate your wisdom and realism based on your experience. I plan to hang around to see what shakes out. I don't have the time nor the desire to go anywhere else at this time. I wish you all the best. Peace.

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10. 60

    Adam Harkusposted 8 years ago

    Absolutely,
    
    Hubpages takes all the work out of getting traffic to your content. Even though I work in web development I just don't have to time brush up on SEO, learn how to integrate adsense, or any other sort of advertising to generate revenue. I suppose I could start with a Wordpress site, but the point is, with Hubpages I can just focus on the writing while Hubpages does the rest.
    
    If Hubpages folds that'll be it for me, and I fear quiet a lot of aspiring new writers, which is a damn shame. Let's see if we can keep a good thing going eh?

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    1. 70

       makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       This comment is so misleading!
       
       For somebody who says they don't know about SEO I'm not sure why you are assuming HubPages generates traffic for content.
       
       The hubs which get traffic are those which are promoted by their authors away from HubPages.
       
       The content which transfers off HubPages gets traffic when it is promoted its owner via other sites
       
       The writers who are only interested in writing and never bother to invest time in learning how content gets traffic rarely get as much internet traffic as maybe their content deserves

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       1. 95

          Sue Adamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Xactly. I would add to that: The sites that get the most traffic pay Google advertising fees to rank at the top of Page one on Google searches. This has nothing to do with value of content. As long as views can be bought, there is no fair and just  playing field.

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             makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             Well said!

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             psycheskinnerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             Technically they are not ranking at all.  The top few spots on a very pale cream background are advertising spots.  The rank of that page could be zero.  They are just buying (misleadingly positioned) advertising spaces.

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11. 60

    Adam Harkusposted 8 years ago

    Despite my optimism I spent a good half hour backing up my hubs last night. Better safe than sorry.

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       TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Adam:  You should do that, anyhow, regardless of the situation here.  It's just good business!

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12. 60

    Adam Harkusposted 8 years ago

    Yeah, it makes sense.

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13. 92

    Jesse Drzalposted 8 years ago

    Adam, just out of curiosity, what program are you using for backup?

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