When Francis Scott Key (Star-Spangled Banner) wrote land of the free, home of th

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   vveaseyposted 7 years ago

   When Francis Scott Key (Star-Spangled Banner) wrote land of the free, home of the brave, was he
   
   including his slaves? I don't think he was, because that would be contradictory to him owning slaves! Yes he was a slave owner! (I was surprised by that info too, as many of you probably are!)
   Could historical contradictions- information, like this, be one of reasons for Colin kaepernick, not saluting that flag?
   
   

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   Ericdierkerposted 7 years ago

   Isn't it just a miracle that these "founding" type folks got the concept down so well. One of my favorites comes more from the theological area. What the heck? When they wrote the Bible women and children were chattel property. When they wrote the US Constitution, Native Americans were not people, and slaves actually came in a variety of colors. Has everyone forgotten indentured servitude? Kids were basically sold into a "craft" and were slaves until????  Starting a fire in pristine land to "herd" animals into traps and slaughter were normal.
   But somehow those idiots, immoral, hypocritical bastards wrote great stuff. Oh maybe not PC but that was like flying to the moon back then. In fact Socrates and Aristotle and Jesus did some great stuff in thought.
   Had I been born 200 years earlier, as a bastard illegitimate, slavery would have looked just fine as the alternative to bondage at birth. Blacks sold Blacks back then. Native Americans had slaves of different tribes.
   Cocaine used to be in Coca Cola. Shooting a mountain lion used to save your family. Sorry but I am not throwing away my copy of the Iliad and the Odyssey because those dudes did not hold my very high moral standards of today. I will not go fire bomb the Sisteen Chapel because Popes were pedophiles. And I will not hate my mom because she smoked cigarettes when pregnant with me -- I am just fine.
   Personally I would have chosen Battle Hymn of the Republic to make your point. I just love that totally intolerant hateful warmongering ballad.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      everything you've said, is why black people have a different view of this situation, than your and other white people. Sounds like you're justifying or diminishing slavery, because there was slavery in other countries, which really isn't relavant

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Are you so glorified and sanctimonious that only your great great great ancestors suffered. A man  can be born a Jew who were slaves. A man cannot be born to a lower station in life if he does not bare the mark of Black? You self righteous man.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Eric what does sanctimonious or self righteous have do with this? What I meant was it's like saying, because people have been killing/murdering each other throughout history. That it, kinda normal, so why all fuss about it

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      VVeasey what I am saying is take a knee - sit on your butt. That is a wonderful statement. Don't tell anyone but I normally do not bow my head when I pray. If one gets angry about history they lose the juice of learning from it. Blacks do not own it.

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      Say Yes To Lifeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      ED - your answer is living breathing proof that the world is improving!

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   vveaseyposted 7 years ago

   Also Eric my parents weren't slaves nor were my grand parents or great grand parents beyond that I don't know. So most of your critique, and attitude you attribute to me doesn't apply

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes and your assumptions about my "white privilege" do not apply either. Those touting the slave card do not have a monopoly on a disturbing past.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Where did I mention your white privilege? Or say anything about Blacks owning history?

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So sorry -- it was your question couched in that dude Colin's antics. I just checked and he does nothing for the inner city underprivileged black or white kids. But his wife is some kind of activist. You held him up not me.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      So you're, suggesting, that it's my fault, that you accused me of making  "assumptions about your "white privilege" that I didn't make?

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Well it would appear my bad. Pardon me.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Ok Eric your bad. This is what I said "Could historical contradictions- information, like this, be one of reasons for Colin kaepernick, not saluting that flag?" Nothing about your "white privilege" You're reading things into this why?

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Seems like a good question. Why do you think I made that leap and jumped to that conclusion?

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know why. You seem like a bright guy, and seem to have a lot to say about everything else That why I'm asking you, to see if you have any insight about  as to why you made that leap. Do have any insight as to why?

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Wow buddy let us have a look. Did I lump together a group of people? Did I unwittingly stereotype? I think I did. I put together liberal progressives and tossed in all their agendas. I do note it was not a color/race deal. Just a political slant bias

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       vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks for your comments

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       Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       By Golly you made me think. We have been friendly since early 2012. I reckon we only agree about 50/50. But we hold fast to the truth that a mind is a horrible thing to waste. Thanks for being iron on my iron.

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       vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       You're welcome Eric! Yes we have Eric! I'm not about arguing, I'm about discussing and learning. Yes a mind is a terrible thing to waste! And to keep closed to greater insight into one's self! The most valuable knowledge of all!

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       MizBejabbersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       Vveasey, look up K.'s history. He may be of AA descent, but he was raised by white parents. He can claim "white privilege," He can't play the slave card because his parents weren't slaves, and I think that's why so many people brand him a hypocrite.

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       vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       MizBejabbers good points! by k you mean kaepernick? I know his history. But is kaepernick, claiming white privilege? Or is he "standing up" for what he believes is the right thing to do.

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   RTalloniposted 7 years ago

   Studying out the historical record of what men like Francis Scot Key and others like him faced in the times they lived in, why they made the choices they made, and what their goals for the future were provides the explanation to questions like these.
   
   That the person you mention as not saluting the flag either does not know or understand that record (or he has aligned himself with an agenda that he probably, giving the benefit of doubt and the record of movements inciting and using people without informing them of their real motives, does not know the truth about) simply means that he needs to study to find out the truth.
   
   As for Key, it is unfair to judge him (and other founders, for that matter) without deciding to set history lessons that ditch the record aside in order to fairly study out the recorded history. A person could do that and still determine to oppose men like Keys but they cannot honestly continue the rhetoric, though they may do so dishonestly.

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   Billie Kelpinposted 7 years ago

   I think Colin Kaepernick's protest is much deeper and wider than the historical origins of the song.  It's a question of present day morality and what we're willing to do to call attention to injustice.
   Questions of patriotism have always carried with them a question of morality - for the United States - for any country.  It was question of morality during the German occupation after people knew what was going on and stood by saying nothing. It's was a question of morality when thoughtful students were burning their draft cards during Viet Nam. And it was the same question of morality that Martin Luther King posed about that war the week before he died. 
   The question is this:  Do I stand by and mindlessly sing a song whose words and history no one really understands, but whose function carries with it a powerful symbol?  Or do I take that symbol of mindless patriotism and force people to actually THINK about the problems in society that are occuring TODAY! It IS supposed to be the home of the brave and I would rather see bravery in protest and change before it needs to be manifested in violence.

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      RTalloniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Seeing his protest that way in today's world isn't unusual, but he was specific re Keys and clear that the info surprised him. Mindlessly singing the song is the problem. Truth about history is the need. Protests should always be civil, not violent.

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      vveaseyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And is Kaepernick's protest violent?

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      RTalloniposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not that I know of, at least directly. I was thinking of the phrase "protest and change before it needs to be manifested in violence", though I do not think BK meant there should ever be a need for it.  Also thinking of Charlotte, NC.

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   Porshadoxusposted 7 years ago

   Kaepernick is too shallow for deep thinking. I bet his agent put him up to it. Kaepernick was due for a new contract. If he makes himself a polarizing figure, the team can't cut him without looking bigoted. He's just a self-serving oxygen-thief that has no respect for the country, the adoptive family, the flag, or the fans that made his life what it is today. If he doesn't like it here, I suggest he go live somewhere else.

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