Difference between Spiritual & Religion (Sagan)

1. 77

   Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago

   Most greatest number of famous men, I've studied throughout history. Claim they are spiritual, not so much Religious. Some had to pretend a Religion for survival. That is why I think, someone like Einstein seems to be living in both camps.
   
   Carl Sagan
   Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both

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2. 77

   Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago

   How about this being a starting point?
   
   Many atheist still think spiritual thinking or evolution is no different than Religious beliefs. Yet give very little facts or evidences to demonstrate their conclusions.
   
   More likely agnostic would find better observation and actual life experiences of Spiritual evolution and thinking that works enhancing their lives and potentially work for everyone like love and beauty.
   
   Judaism is the parent of both Christianity and Islam. ... Among basic truths and faiths of either young or old version of creationism . Creatism is not compatible with science evolution...
   
   Where science evolution is compatible with Spiritual evolution. That is the philosophical, theological, esoteric or spiritual idea that nature and human beings and/or human culture evolve: either extending from an established cosmological pattern (ascent), or in accordance with certain pre-established potentials.
   
   I'm always open for short sound bites, simple thoughts or long deep discussion of the 99% unknowns spiritual evolution.

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   1. 88

      MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      My father was an avowed atheist. Other than scoffing at religion, he held two beliefs: 1. There was no God, no afterlife, just nothing when the body went back to the dirt. 2. He regarded as ignorant superstition things that I regard today as spiritual. I guess that's why I got so late a beginning into spiritualism.
      I followed the path of my mother into the church, but he still taught me the truths in evolution and anthropology. I wonder how he would feel if he were alive today and learn that some of Darwinism has been proven to be incorrect. He lived and breathed for science and progress. How would he feel if he learned that this same progress is killing the earth and the living things upon it. He grew up on a farm and never stopped growing things.
      I know this is just a description of one atheist, but he is the only atheist with whom I've held deep discussions on science, religion, history and humanity. Since I progressed from the church to spirituality, I don't feel it worth my time to study the beliefs of atheists, but I don't judge them. I believe they have their own reasons, which don't pertain to me. I believe that most of them will find their spirituality in another lifetime.

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      1. 78

         hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         " Since I progressed from the church to spirituality, I don't feel it worth my time to study the beliefs of atheists, but I don't judge them."
         
         The ONLY "belief" that atheists have in common is that they are without gods....nothing more, or less to study as far as "beliefs."
         
         "I wonder how he would feel if he were alive today and learn that some of Darwinism has been proven to be incorrect."
         
         The only thing I know of about natural selection proven to be incorrect is Darwin's theory on the working of how individuals vary from one another. The theory of natural selection is intact..thus it is still the accepted theory. Am I missing something.

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3. 78

   hard sunposted 4 years ago

   Here's my thoughts. It seems many atheists do forget that atheist simply means without god(s). There are many religions that don't have gods..i.e. Theravada Buddhism, etc. Some of the new Atheists also scoff at the notion of any spirituality, which I find unhelpful.
   
   It's easy for me to see a creator behind the universe is not necessary. But, it does conform to scientific laws, many of which we don't yet understand. To me, there is a spiritual aspect to these laws...even to evolution. We can respect and honor what we know about the universe and understand that there are energies we have not tapped into, which seem magical right now. If science ever finds these things, they will be truths, but not any less spiritual in my mind.
   
   I may be just re-stating much of your, and Sagan's thoughts, but this is what I've come to believe. I recently read atheist books from Dawkins, Hutchins, Silverman, etc. but am finding a book from anthropologist David Eller to be even more intriguing.

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   1. 77

      Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I'll look into David Eller. Went to an atheist forum to talk about this, they have a serious mental block about spiritual topics.
      
      A few other veiws
      
      Christina Puchalski, MD, Institute for Spirituality and Health, contends that "spirituality is the aspect of humanity that refers to the way individuals seek and express meaning and purpose and the way they experience their connectedness to the moment, to self, to others, to nature, and to the significant or sacred."
      
      Mario Beauregard Spiritual Brain, “spirituality means any experience that is thought to bring the experiencer into contact with the divine in other words, not just any experience that feels meaningful.
      
      Ruth Beckmann “the spiritual dimension tries to be in harmony with the universe, and strives for answers about the infinite, and comes into focus when the person faces emotional stress, physical illness, or death.
      
      Scientists seek to quantify everything—even the ineffable. And so the human search for meaning recently took a physical turn as Columbia and Yale University researchers isolated the place in our brains that processes spiritual experiences.
      
      I don't know how concrete this is, my guess it's only in a small part of vast more to come.

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      1. 88

         MizBejabbersposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Reading the viewpoints of spirituality of others is enjoyable and I found myself agreeing with those in your comment. It is true that scientists seek to quantify "everything". But one of the predictions at the end of the Piscean age was that during the Aquarian cycle, science and spirituality would merge and become one, or at least compatible. Sounds a little funny, doesn't it, because oil and water don't normally mix. But I think that at least for now the human has to have a place, logically in the brain, that translates spiritual experiences into human understanding. Otherwise, like the cargo cults, we might still be worshiping the gods when we see a scientific happening.

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         1. 77

            Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I think slowly we are moving towards a spiritual age. The Atheist are enjoying the entertainment age trying their best to make me look  ridiculous like a pack of wolves. I find alot of major Religions are ridiculous myself, so far Religious people are more open yo try other ways of spiritual thinking..
            
            Although in the spiritual evolution, I say whatever works, as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

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            1. 78

               hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               So, do both of you believe in a god or gods? Most religions throughout history have no god(s). We have animism, animatism, etc. and this monotheism is a newborn when it comes to religion. Atheists can be religious.

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      2. 78

         hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I like the first Puchalski quote best. It seems fairly all-encompassing and reflective of that feeling you get under rare instances...seeing the view after climbing to the top of a mountain..a good hallucinogenic experience, etc. That feeling of interconnection is real. Maybe it's part of our collective unconscious and/or that our matter all originated from stardust as DeGrasse Tyson likes to point out.
         
         I'll look into the Yale/Columbia research as I find this type of thing fascinating.  The first several chapters of the Eller book show a more clear understanding of religion and the human condition than the other books about atheism I've read.
         
         Science needs to recognize not everything can be quantified. Of course, "soft" or social sciences do so more than the "hard" sciences, but they aren't often given the same type of respect.
         
         Atheists can work to find meaning in life. Atheists can revel in spiritual-type experiences. In fact, the future of logical thought may just ride upon those notions IMO.

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         1. 77

            Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            There are a few definitions about Worship. Worship, is the superior for the Religious kind .
            
            What I mean by worship is giving  honor too, homage, reverence, respect, adoration, praise , or glory to the Sun that power my solar energy and grows my urban farming and so on.
            
            Big difference from Religious worship, where I can see the Sun to worship my sun tan.
            
            I can worship a woman because I ultimately love her and we each enhances each other souls the most. Every one is Godlike, Oh yes!!! Worship Yourself First of All.  that way nobody or group fights over who is superior.

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            1. 78

               hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               "Worship Yourself First of All.  that way nobody or group fights over who is superior."
               
               This reflects my feelings as well. I don't think you can truly treat others well until you think of yourself as godlike. It may sound counter-intuitive but we are all gods of our internal world no matter the situation. I still see this as an atheistic viewpoint. Definitions of gods can certainly vary. Under the anthropological definition I'm not sure this fits but, you know...who really cares.

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               1. 77

                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  We know the injustices system of God's, Religions, Government an Corporation-ism we live in is broken. Many sheep and sheep dogs are not awake enough to know they have been suckered Royally.
                  
                  I think many non- believers here would think spiritual is some form of hierarchy, it's not. It's high energy anyone can tap into to enhance in order to thrive in life, base from my own experience.
                  
                  The best game in the world is Tit for tat- meaning "equivalent retaliation" because I am more of an anarchist optimist. Of 6 level like 1 to 6. I would give a king 1 or 2 if king wants 3 or 4 instead, no deal, the king wants a suckers pay off. If I give 5 or 6 to my ultimate love person or 5 or 6 to the Sun. The Sun and ultimate love gives back the same. We score at least 10 points each.
                  
                  For each of us are better off, having our own tools such as science, spiritual, desires even self hypnosis to foam our own kingdom. Being Godlike of our own Universe to have the freedom to make whatever works is better than a sheep or sheep dog lifestyle or prison.

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                  1. 78

                     hard sunposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Very well put.  I used to call myself God back in high school--partly to get under the skin of some monotheistic teachers and peers. I'm sure my explanation was not as eloquent as I thought it was back then, but I still feel exactly the same way.
                     
                     If there were an all-knowing Abrahamic-type god, and he were truly benevolent, he would want us to feel this way. He would not want us to spend our lives looking forward to an after-world, or attempting to please him. I feel this in my bones just as much as I know the Earth is our provider. I don't actually think there is an Abrahamic-type god, though that interconnectedness, that we can all tap into, as you say, means something.

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                     1. 77

                        Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        A few Christains have told me Adam was perfect and the smartest man who ever lived. Each generation has gotten Dumber up to today. What kind of un- evolutional baggage is this.
                        
                        That is why I call spiritual evolution of the unknown as opposite as it moves  into the future
                        
                        Religion is living in the dark ages. They claim God lives in the deepest Darkness opposite of me reaching further into the futures light.

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4. 60

   Jw Worcesterposted 4 years ago

   What you say is true for mildly commited people.  But instead of just looking at church people take the time to observe Chrisitans that practice a strong faith in Jesus 24X7.

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   1. 77

      Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I only have to study history and the behaviour of the Religious today. To know they are going into the wrong direction.
      
      Non believers are the fastest growing group in the world today and happy to say, we will overcome and moved into the science and spiritual age.

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