http://twitchy.com/2012/10/07/democrats … -stickers/
Again....no big surprise. There are no rules for the liberals.
I'm sure that's Obama's fault, right? Without liberals, this country would be a 18th century, 3rd world, church/state.
Hey you know what?
Why should those people get a pass? Just like you are doing?
I'm tired of this white hat / black hat thing.
If they keyed someone's car they should get what they deserve for it.
Or did you do some of that yourself?
Lately I am showing the dark side of the left and all you guys just shrug your shoulders. Now you know why you are losing support.
Js, you and your people are such hypocrites and as such are most offensive. You are not showing us anything except some inane idea of comparinig apples to hand granades and it aint selling. All you rightwingers can expect to have your a**es handed to you next Nevember then you will be free to return to your Klaverns to consider Plan B
I do not support Vandalism on either side, but I do remember attacks on Democratic campaign offices in parts of the country around 2010, a bit more dramatic then keying someone car.
I really do not care. People who are liberals can be bastards. I live in LA, and no one goes around like " oh, what nice, down-to-earth people." The difference is that they don't push Jesus on me, they don't try to increase my taxes, they don't care what I do. So I love them.
Its because they don't care what their side does, the 47% is full of whiners and takers and they need to pay their fair share! Actually they just need to pay ANYTHNG!!
Earlier this year I attended a Ron Paul rally and we had 4 Obama supporters crash that place. They stole a few of the campaign signs and attempted to do their Obama Obama Obama chant...they were drown out.
Odd - it happens on both sides. Just goes to show a Christian nation has no morals or respect for anything. No wonder everyone hates Americans and want to vaporize them.
Oh you mean like this:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21761 … ers-denver
or like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=Don't+R … mp;bih=635
or maybe this: https://www.google.com/search?q=OBAMA:+ … mp;bih=635
I love outrage LOL BTW: I'm not a Democrat but the fact of the matter is that sometimes it cracks me up to watch the two sides go tearing each other apart and claim the other side is full of bullies.
Mitt Romney constantly interrupted at P debate and it was seen as "strong and presidential". Biden interrupted at VP debate and people claimed he was drunk, rude etc. It's all a frigging joke ... I'll be glad when this election season is over
Like I tried to say before.........ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine nine percent of the time it is how horrible the blood lusting conservatives and and what evil they do. All I try to do is show it ain't just them. Yep some idiot shot through a window at Obama headquarters in Denver. Nope I do not for one second agree with it or cheerlead for it. B U T.....that does not change my opinions nor should it.
The difference is that most people do not assume that the behaviour of one extremist means that every one of the belief is the same. I see people pointing out the bad behaviour of one person or a few. You are the only one who starts posts stating all liberals or those who you think are liberals are the same.
Uninvited Writer I agree. You can't judge all people based on a few extremist nuts...otherwise it would be safe to assume that all democrats hate black people (democrats started KKK) and they also hate jews (Nazi Party is an abbreviation for the socialistic democrat party of Germany).
Actually I don't believe the word ALL is there.
I think that is something you may be seeing yourself.
And I don't think I have ever seen where it is stated maybe just a few Conservatives did something bad. Usually they try their best to pin whatever it is right to my chest.
Of course, I am not supposed to do anything like that. Might be hurtful.
@Uninvited Writer Please feel free to peruse these forums in the political section. The left here and in the media constantly judge every conservative based on the actions of one radical. All the time. Every GOP member is judged on the actions of one. All the time.
I would say that I do recall some instances of vandalism on Obama's signs in 2008. The difference? THAT was all over the news. Where is the news on these incidents? Hmmm....
It is my perception that some conservatives in these forums (not all - Jaxson comes to mind) immediately jump to playing the victim. Obviously, that differs from your perception.
@PP First I would like to say that you are not one I've found to jump to judgement on anyone. You are to be commended for that in this venue because you are among the few.
Pointing out a fact, and it is a fact, happens on these forums and in the media (both sides, both ways) every single day is not playing victim. Now, my take on this, as I believe I stated somewhere, is I know there were these instances back in 2008 against Obama supporters. I'm certain there are most likely such instances now as well. These are the fringes of both sides.
Yes, agreed, both sides do it, but according to Mr. Chams, liberals do it more, are bullies, and paint all conservatives in the same light. Poor JS sees boogeymen everywhere. lol
I think we just see the boogeymen more. What before people might say to themselves or close friends or relatives in the past is now out there on social media for all the world to see. We tend to try to rationalize this to mean an increase in hatred and vitriol where it is really just that we now have a medium where people feel anonymous enough to spew such stuff for all the world to see. Just my opinion though.
Also, instant news searches bring obscure things to light on a bigger stage that would have been more localized in the past.
Oh let me see.....we are supposed to grow a skin or gut it up as long as we are willing to be cast in the light of bloodsuckers and not complain right?
Touche! Good points, especially the shot into the Obama campaign HQ.
It's not only liberals. Somebody ripped the Obama bumper sticker off my car, and two friends in Grosse Pointe had their Obama yard signs stolen. I haven't heard of any keying, however. That's inexcusable.
Get off your high horse. Republicans threatened the owners of a Mexican restaurant in Colorado for not letting them put up Romney/Ryan posters.
Hey you discovered it happens on both sides!!!!!
Now why should either of them get a pass? Because you don't seem to find anything wrong with the keying incidents?
Hello? How about shooting a BULLET into the Obama headquarters in Denver?
I'd classify that as a bit more severe than "vandalism."
Yes, it happens on both sides. I don't see anybody saying anyone should "get a pass." They were just pointing out that Republicans do these things too. You did say "There are no rules for the liberals" which implies that vandalism is a liberal thing.
It's wrong when either side does it.
And when President Obama ran back in 2008 signs and private property were also vandalized. Nothing new for a "FEW" on both sides!
Why is it that in order to prop up our 'favorite' candidate - team - country - whatever - we have to crush the opposition? Rather than pointing out the goodness of whatever it is we support, we focus everyone's attention on the negativity of the 'opposition.' I'm fairly sure that it has to do with our own solid belief in our own 'side.'
If there's really enough good on one side to make it the 'best,' then we should focus on that and leave the crap on the other side to the other side.
That's a good question. Maybe being Conservative I spend so much time being told by the opposition how inherently evil I am I just no longer know any better.
You ever post a rant like that to them?
Maybe I am one of 'them?' I made no mention of my own thoughts on politics in my post, so whatever you assume me to be could very easily be incorrect.
I feel that way about everyone, JSChams. I have unsubscribed to the feeds of every single friend on FB who posts anything that has to do with politics. That includes my Tea Party friends, my Liberal friends, and my Libertarian friends. Why? Because I'm sick to death of the negativity and hate mongering that goes on in the name of supporting their 'party.'
My point is that if yours, mine, theirs - anyone's - is so much BETTER - why not focus on what's GOOD in your party and leave the others alone? Or learn to love equality and censure those in EVERY party who spread nothing but negativity?
No...the reason I said that is I NEVER.....did I say NEVER?....see a screed like that on a liberal based forum.
Now I realize we are all supposed to believe they are so good they glow in the dark but I am 56 years old and have been on both sides and know better. Not trying to jump on you specifically just the thing here as a whole.
I missed this response earlier, I'm sorry. I think the reason for that is that there are so many extremists on both sides. Most of what you see in forums comes from the far righties and far lefties. More moderate folks (like me, and habee for example) tend to stay away. Maybe we need to start being more vocal than the more extreme folks - we certainly have better things to say, and a lot more common sense in the grand scheme of things.
I don't really have a party but am not naive enough to believe that one party is inherently good and the other inherently evil. Were that the case the solution to all our problems would be really simple wouldn't it?
Yet that is what is almost always portrayed. That's why I post things to hold up a mirror and boy does it get a reaction.
I'm sure it does get a reaction...lol
Too bad the reaction isn't someone pointing out the good that we might be able to if we all quit trying to point out each others' shortcomings.
That all starts far above where we are sitting you know.
Basically i have no problem. If they quit calling me a piece of crap I will do the same but it ain't gonna happen because it is all the ammo they have.
No one will ever stop bullying or insulting a person who continually responds to their bullying. Two wrongs don't make a right. When someone insults you, you are not given a free pass to return the favor. Actually, not behaving in a similar fashion is the quickest way to shut them down, IMO.
I am not trying to "bully" anyone, and it's interesting you would admit liberals engage in such an action.
Not very tolerant now is it?
All I try to do is hold up a mirror so it can be seen that people are people and all of us do really stupid things. There is an almost mythological quality to how liberals wish themselves to be viewed. There is a Hub in the makings about these things.
A shot was fired through the window of Obama's Denver campaign office - while people were inside. There are too many crazies on both sides.
Why would I 'admit' that liberals are guilty of such things? I didn't think I made it a secret that everyone is guilty of those things. I was referring to your attitude of 'when they stop, I'll stop.' If no one stops first, the crap goes on.
And, I was actually referring to those you feel are bullying you.
I'm tolerant of many things, not of others. That's because I'm human.
Maybe you're missing my central point. If you're going to hold up a mirror to others, try looking into it yourself.
Well I have been on both sides of the ideological fence and most haven't . That's why i try and educate some because they have been raised to believe this groups is "good" and that group is "evil".
That has even been stated to me right here on these forums.
I also don't believe in allowing that sort of thing to be fostered because it is a lie.
Basically folks there are some of you so biased you don't even realize you are doing this.
And someone shot the window out at an Obama campaign office. Should I assume it was a Republican? Both sides have crazy people!
Maybe its part of the fictional war on women?
Someone shot a window out at an Obama Campaign office...also in the new's Man with Obama Witch Doctor poster get's death threats over exercising his freedom of speech. Yet the media seems to be more interested in this man being a possible racist then they are they people want to kill him....
Both sides have crazies but I agree with the OP liberals in many instances get a "get out of jail" free card when people think of their more violent nature. I'm willing to give examples if anyone is interested.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 … -liberals/
What I find interesting in the Liberals is that they like to use words like "Racist" or "Hate Mongering" when Liberals are responsible for the creation of some downright evil organizations of hate. The KKK was originally created by the Democrats....the Black Panther (black version of KKK) were created with a strong liberal base. Heck even the Nazi Party was created by democrats...The term Nazi is actually an abbreviation for a German word meaning Socialist Democrat Party of Germany.
The Nazi's co-opted the socialist term... they were not socialist, they were facists. I guess you don't like the term democracy. Not all who believe in democracy are Democrats you know?
Well, for one thing facists are right wing extremists...
You are using historical references, some of which are true. Democrats used to be the party of racism; however, you are forgetting something essential, and that is quite devastating to what you are trying to argue: the realignment of the racist southern states to the Republican party after the Democrat LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act.
All of those places and racist voters are now either dead, or members of the Republican party. History is definitely important and cannot be revised.
No racists at all in the Democrat party? You sure about that???
I never claimed that. I claimed the southern racist Democrats changed over to the Republican party.
There are obviously going to be racists in the Democratic party. It isn't on the same level though.
Last I checked America didn't gather all the racists and put them in the south...both sides have racists (Democrats and Republicans)...I'd say that the world is much more accepting to the Democrats racism though. Affirmative Action is a democrat's act and it supports racism, allowing for minorities to get jobs, school spots over whites even if whites have a higher test score. The NAACP a civil rights group is clearly racist, supporting minorities and blacks instead of human beings (also if I created an organization called National Association for the Advancement of White Only People I'd be labeled a racist). Reverse racism is racist.
Heck you can even look at the current democrat administration and see that Obama is a racist. Cambridge Police Incident. Forgiving the Black Panthers for their 2008 voter intimidation. Trayvon Martin could be my son-race baiting. Obama choice in Reverends. Not to mention Obama's book.
Watched an interesting movie earlier, Obama's America 2016. Had an interesting question from the movies director/narrator Dinesh D'souza to Jesse Jackson in a debate. Basically this, where is the racism in America that prevents people of color from succeeding here? The answer is it does not exist except in the minds of those that want it to exist.
Actually it exists in many ways, from lower pay for the same work, passing over for promotion based on race, higher sentences and higher rates of conviction on non white defendants etc. etc.
The simplest way to see it however is to note the massive wealth gap between races and think about it, unless you believe that non whites are inferior in some way then the only/main reason they are poorer etc. is due to racism.
Many reasons why someone is poor and they don't have a thing to do with racism, except in the mind of those who need racism to exist.
Why are back people poorer? Either you believe they are in some way inferior or it's because of racism. There are indeed many reasons why SOMEONE can be poor but not for a whole racial group.
You are avoiding the question for obvious reasons.
Why are black people poorer Josak?
Because he left tells them the right is holding them down. That's why.
Then they make sure they don't earn what they need so they believe it and continue to vote Democrat.
That's why Josak.
C'mon JSC you can do better than that, Blue states are on average wealthier and the poorest states are red (where incidentally the poorest non white populations are) so voting blue should have the opposite result at the state and smaller level and on a federal level who you vote for can't make any difference to your wealth in comparison to the rest of the country because the only country only gets one President and one federal government... So it's literally impossible for that to be the cause.
It is also incredibly racist (though you will never realize it) that you believe that you think that us non whites are just so easily brainwashed and manipulated to vote blue while you whites are just too smart for that.
The truth is the biggest wealth gaps between white and black are in the Red states. I wonder why.
It's not hard at all Josak. Why should the left let their pet voter base have a reversal of fortune and figure out what's been done to them all these decades? Hmm?
How much more racist could it possibly get? Oh and some of them have figured it out. Just ask Stacey Dash.
JSC... if non whites had a reversal of fortune that would only be good for the Democrats, educated people vote Democrat far more than Republican and liberals are on average wealthier so that argument holds no water.
Hey there is no doubt that many black people and Hispanic people vote Republican they just are the minority, even with the religious pull the vast majority will vote Democrat because they figured out the Republicans a long time ago.
Well here goes....
Why are black people poorer? Hmm...I think the main reason they are poorer is because of their mentality. Not all black people are poor, heck we have a President who is black; why didn't the system hold him down or at the very least prevent him from becoming President of the United States? Mentality.
How many blacks need to have that feeling that the system is against them (because it's racist of course) and that's why they are never getting anywhere in life. Yes, economic times are tough for everyone but I'm talking on a whole. Of all the races I've seen black people stick together more then any other race, and to me this sounds like an edge. But they never seem to use it for their benefit.
They feel that the system is against them and when they lash out, break the law and get arrested it's not their poor mistakes that landed them in Prison. It's the "Man," it's the slanted system that is holding them down.
And the funny thing is...the Man...the System if anything it's slanted to help out the blacks. A brief google search reveals more then 20 scholarships solely for African Americans....but another search cannot find a single scholarship for whites only. Affirmative Action I've already mentioned in a previous post, as well as the NAACP.
Now I'll admit to you that these acts of reverse racism do harm blacks, but probably not in the way you think. These acts help instill inside blacks a feeling that the world owes them something, an unpaid debt. And our Government is all to happy to feed their need for a handout. This reinforces a negative mentality and the nasty cycle goes on.
Want an example of this? Native Americans. They received gov. money/aid, and that act alone is something much more cruel then giving them blankets covered in small pox. Did you know that 12 percent of Native American's die in alcohol related deaths? That's 3 times higher then the national average.
Right So black people just have a persecution complex huh?
As I noted before equal wage for same work ratios, conviction ratios and sentence harshness comparisons prove there is plenty of institutional racism to go round.
Now what you said is... well frankly incredibly racist. Now I know in your head it's just simple logic and something you know is true not racist even though you just took a whole racial group and called them entitled and wrong with I suspect hardly any knowledge on the topic and certainly no proof. (I know now you will inform me you know all about being Black or Hispanic, somehow.)
Frankly it's awkward though because I don't like having this discussion or calling people racist so let me put it this way. Think about it if you still think it's fine no problem but I won't be addressing your comments for both our sakes because I don't deal well with racism.
My advice is talk to some black people and some hispanic people and ask them to tell you about the racism they encounter. On the upside it gets better every day.
Lol, you won't be addressing my comment because it's true and you have no rebuttal other then calling me racist. Which is fine your entitled to your own opinion....and opinions are like butts everyone has one. I actually have no idea what it's like to be Black or Hispanic, I'm white. But can you answer this simple question...why do some blacks succeed while others fail?
And what exactly did I say that was so racist? I didn't say a single thing that was racist. Blaming it on mentality isn't racist. It deals a person being a product of their environment not a product of their DNA. Although I see that your called other people on this forum racist, so I guess that's your only defense. Your a product of your environment, and I'm guessing the reason you rebel against my comment so much is that if my comments are true...that would make people that are like-minded to you part of the problem. Take some responsibility and try to make an actual argument. I dare you to address any of the issues of my last post and to point out why exactly I am racist...
*sigh* The problem is it has never occurred in human history that someone has said "you know that's racist and bad right?" and the other person has said "man you're right I won't do that again" so this is never going to end well but I'll give it a go.
" But can you answer this simple question...why do some blacks succeed while others fail?"
A variety of reasons, for myself it was a combination of luck, hard work and more luck. Others are so talented or skilled that nothing will hold them back and still others have the right environmental conditions to put them ahead of the pack (good schools stable childhood etc.) the truth is though that to achieve the same as a white person would you have to a big edge to overcome the hurdles that race creates as I mentioned those are getting better every day but I can tell you about plenty of them if you like.
When you focus on a racial group and then broadly label them as something (in this case entitled and suffering from a persecution complex) that is racism pure and simple.
I would like to point out I am not calling anyone racist I am pointing out statements that are racist, as for JSC he and I have had similar discussions a few times in the past and we get along fine so don't worry about that, I have informed him several times before that I don't think he is racist... he just plugs a political position really doggedly
Under that idea when are you going to admit that you are racist Josak?
Racism is defined as....
Any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,” that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some “races” are innately superior to others.
Now your said "the truth is though that to achieve the same as a white person would you have to a big edge to overcome the hurdles that race creates" now wouldn't that fall under the belief that some races are superior to others? Whites don't have to work as hard to get more in life is what your saying.
Now that either means you believe that whites are somehow superior or that blacks are somehow inferior....you mentioned that these hurdles are getting better every day, so it's safe to assume that you mean something in the environment is preventing them from getting anywhere unless of course they have a drastic edge over the white guy. This would lead me to believe that a force -the Man- is out to get you...hence a persecution complex. You proved my point or proved that you have a persecution complex based on your last comment. I'm really curious to know your plentiful hurdles that your race has to jump through that a white man doesn't....
If your school systems are somehow lacking then move to a different area. Nobody is stopping you. But don't live in a crappy area with high crime and wonder why the world isn't at your finger tips.
As for entitlement...do you not have the NAACP or Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action an act which ignores those with merit and allows people to get hired or into a school based solely on the color of their skin. The majority of blacks (that I've talked to) support Affirmative Action...why do you think that people should be allowed in schools or jobs based solely on your race? Why are you entitled to that based off your race? (Regents of the University of California v. Bakke)
Now before you try to contradict that statement lets look into our local news...or rather the News of New York where the NAACP is suing because the Latino and Black percentages of 8 elite schools are low. To get into those schools you have to have the highest test scores from a standardized test.
At Stuyvesant, which requires the highest score of any of the schools, just 1.2 percent of students were black in the 2011-2012 school year and 2.4 percent were Hispanic. The Department of Education said 72.1 percent of students were Asian and 23.7 percent were white. The NAACP is arguing that letting people into schools based solely on a standardized test score is unfair. They argue that race and geography of the students should be taken into account when deciding what school to get into...
Whew wall of text.
Well for starters I don't approve of affirmative action, the goal is equality but you don't achieve that by tipping the scales in other areas so forget about that because we agree entirely.
Now yes it is harder for non whites to succeed because as I said racism is real and it affects our lives. Now I didn't grow up in the US but if I had I would have been placed in foster care (as an orphan) as a massive proportion of black and Hispanic children are and the statistics for kids who come out of that system speak for themselves. I also love how you assume that people living in poor areas can just move somewhere better, never been poor huh? For starters better places are usually more expensive so you can't afford them, moving costs a years savings or more or often is just unaffordable and whatever work you do have where you live you probably can't afford to lose it until you find another job.
Now its quite apparent that you don't know the sort of hurdles non whites face other than their childhoods but just speaking from personal experience: well I arrived in darker days but when I first arrived I had plenty of experience as a coal miner but despite being more qualified mysteriously no one would hire me, some of the places I applied they even refused to shake my hand before telling me to leave, then after months of searching I found a great guy who was willing to employ me but none of the all white crew would work with me (back in the day you had to work in a mining team) so I had to leave there too, one of the guys said he couldn't work with me because with all the coal dust he wouldn't be able to see me. When I finally did find work I eventually found out I was being paid 25% less an hour than the white people who had been there just as long and then I was mysteriously fired with no warning despite exceeding my quotas the day after someone at work found out I was dating a white woman.
I could go on but it's starting to sound like whining and that's not my style but yes there is discrimination and it affects me even now I run my own business. It is getting better though which is the thing to hold onto. It's also worth noting the US has one of the worst economic mobilities in the world which means the biggest factor in economic success in the US is (statistically) how wealthy your parents were and for most black people their parents were poor very much because of racist discrimination so the legacy of racism lives on that way too.
Again subjective data. Personal stories can be fabricated. Want me to tell you how I became King of America when I lead a revolution against the Wicked Witch of the West? I realize that racism can play a role in not getting a job...but every race experiences this. And if your going to talk about how WAY back in the day this or that....well we aren't living in the past anymore. The fact that you didn't get a job could have nothing to do with your being black and everything to do with you being a foreigner, or your personality, or your accent or the way you dress...that list goes on and on . If I owned a company I'd try to hire based on merit but I'd give more consideration to American citizens over foreigners. Or long time locals over outsiders.
I did grow up poor actually...in a good neighborhood and out of the city...life was cheaper in the country.
I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist...but for the the majority of blacks to be poor or in jail because of racism is ridiculous...we do have a "Man" and the Man if anything gives minorities an edge over whites.
Lol Josak we are going to go on forever I think. Constantly shooting wall of texts back and forth over an issue that neither of us will change our minds on...a writer once wrote
" it has never occurred in human history that someone has said "you know that's racist and bad right?" and the other person has said "man you're right I won't do that again"
And I am starting to believe him.
D'Sousa is a right wing fascist prevert from the Hoover Institute at Stanford.
I am with you a little in criticizing affirmative action, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it racist. Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate? I'm a little more undecided on this issue, but the intent behind it is NOT racist.
Then, you said Obama is a racist, and your credibility on this issue disappeared.
What exactly is a "typical white person"? Sounds a bit racist to me, even with his convoluted answer.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 … talks-mor/
This has been borne out in studies. http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/bernd.w … /dcw08.pdf
He was speaking honestly about the "typical white person" and when they see an African American they don't know, they are more likely to perceive them as a threat. Inarticulate wording and somewhat ill defined, the point is still true.
Studies like the one I cited cannot simply be dismissed. Empirical evidence is what it is.
So the "typical white person" cowers at the sight of a black person? Studies? Here are some interesting facts.
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-0 … dy-by-nih/
http://www.naturalnews.com/031121_medic … fraud.html
Okay so tell me...if a law is created that only caters to a specific race or group of races but excludes certain races would that in it's definition be racist? I think so. Your excluded races that are not a minority and thus discriminating.
As for losing my credibility, frankly I don't care...or at least I don't care about your saying it. I stated why I believe Obama is a racist. I listed examples and all you do is say "no, he not a racist." Well then prove me wrong, if you can. Have you read his book? Here's a few quotes from his books...
I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites
There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.
That was the problem with people like Joyce. They talked about the richness of their multicultural heritage and it sounded real good, until you noticed that they avoided black people. ... To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.
... But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerated. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.
I found solice in nursing a pervasive sense of grievancee and animosity against my mother's race
Come on SOoner28 if you really think I'm wrong prove it. Those are a few quotes and while they might be subjective my post before this one had some fairly clear examples.
Amen!...I live in the blood red state of TN, never feel my vote counts.
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