President Donald Trump mocked Democrats Monday for their stony reactions during his State of the Union speech last week, saying that it was even "treasonous."
"They were like death and un-American. Un-American. Somebody said, 'Treasonous.' I mean, yeah, I guess, why not," he said to laughter.
"Can we call that treason? Why not," he added. He made the remarks during a speech at a manufacturing plant in Cincinnati, Ohio.
"I mean they certainly didn't seem to love our country that much," he said, adding it was "very, very sad."
Trump's comments came less than a week after he delivered his State of the Union address in which he preached the virtue of bipartisanship.
Here is the Constitutional definition of treason:
No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. ... The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
I seriously doubt Trump has ever watched a SOTU address before. Like every other aspect of the govt, he's ignorant of the protocols.
Holy cow Randy! We might agree! Is that a "bad" thing? Are protocols sacrosanct? Could "protocols" be part of the reason we are where we are? Hmm...
Strange, but a recollection of the Vietnam peace talks came to mind. The N. Vietnamese delegation stalled, for weeks, (while our Congress eroded the footing of the U.S. position), over the configuration of the conference table that would be used for negotiations.
Protocol vs. substance?
It's scary when a President so casually uses the words "treason" and "treasonous" to describe his political opponents. And simply because they didn't clap for him.
Meanwhile, his supporters ignore the threat to democracy and continue to rationalize his dangerous behavior. That's even scarier.
Why? Half the people in the country has declared that Trump has committed treason - why can't he do the same? Because that same half set a "higher standard" for him?
I have not read anywhere that half the country "has declared Trump has committed treason".
Regardless, not clapping for Trump is hardly treasonous. If proven, colluding with the Russians certainly is.
I'm surprised you don't see the difference between those two standards.
Wilderness: Where is the proof that half the people have called him treasonous? Just because the democratic congress did not cheer him on in the STOU does not make them treasonous. But it does make him look like a dictator of a third world country for implying that he needs that kind of aggrandizing to support his twisted ego.
And now he wants a military parade for goodness sakes! He watched the big parade in France and wants to appear powerful and have tanks, missiles, and thousands of soldiers all paying homage to a guy claiming bone spurs while playing tennis as the poor folk took his place in combat bled for the US.
Does anyone think he deserves being saluted by our fighting people? If so, they will not live it down....
Do you not read any social media? Do you not read any of the "news"? "Treason" is and always has been one of the major points calling for impeachment under the theory that working with Russians to improve the US is treason.
No, it doesn't make congress treasonous, but then it takes a special blindfold to think that his words, delivered with a chuckle, were to be taken literally, either. Personally, I found it rather funny; a cynical little slap at the ignorance of people screaming out that his every move is treason but that don't have a clue what the term means. But then I'm not desperately scratching in the dirt for any possible clod that I can spin into demonizing the man.
This has gotten so predictable. Funny but sad while being completely predictable and expected. Trump was a bigot because he took steps (that should have been taken years ago) to limit terrorists from entering the country. He's a racist because he enforces immigration laws that the previous president decided were, in his opinion, "wrong" and thus did not fall under his oath. He's a white supremacist because he wants to control our borders, as required in his oath of office. He's "divisive" because he isn't Hillary Clinton and isn't liberal. He wants nuclear war because he won't fold under the threats from an insane, two bit dictator from the most oppressive country in the world. Now he's a "dictator of a third world country" because he laughingly turns the tables on the "treason!" crowd. I'm telling you - the Trump haters have scratched their way through the bottom of the barrel and are now digging furiously in the cesspool under it for something to whine about...and still coming up empty handed.
The standard for everyone is the truth. I hope that never changes.
psycheskinner: Thank you. You are absolutely right. It's all about the truth. But Trump can't be counted on to tell the truth. He calls his exaggerations and lies, "truthful hyperbole." But for the people who are not in denial and don't have just plain blind faith in him, they are still lies and exaggerations, no matter what he calls them.
You have to be kidding. It isn't the standard for those at the top of the church, it isn't the standard for politicians trying to convince you of something that isn't true (it's called "spin") and it isn't the standard for the one standing before the judge. We even lie to ourselves to feel better about something bad that has happened!
Gee whiz, Dan! I never thought you'd admit your dishonesty like that.
Wilderness: Do you lie and exaggerate everyday your President does and the Pope doesn't and higher levels of the clergy don't. You and others like you remind me of parent that rationalizes all the bad behavior an unruly child by saying he is just doing what everybody else does, what's the big deal.
Wow! I didn't "rationalize" anything at all (merely said that the standard of the country is not to always tell the truth), and your insinuation that I did counts as your third lie of this post. The first and second were that the Pope and higher levels of clergy have perfect records of never lying. On the contrary it is a lie every time they present their opinions and beliefs as factual.
I'd have to say, though, that you've taken a page from your own book and are rationalizing your poor words towards your president. At least half of what you indicate as true simply is not, and most of what's left is still undetermined.
Wilderness; This is what I said: "Do you lie and exaggerate everyday your President does and the Pope doesn't and higher levels of the clergy don't." Notice it is in the form of question asking if you lie everyday. I was not insinuating that you lie everyday. Notice, it doesn't say that the Pope and higher levels of clergy have perfect records. Those are your words.
The key operative word here is EVERYDAY. Do you believe the Pope and higher levels of clergy lie everyday? In your zeal to insult me, you missed that point. You are going to have to read replies more carefully before you go into your rants.
Do I think the Pope and church VIP's lie every day? Yes, pretty much. They give insincere compliments, for instance. And I don't believe that "higher clergy" or the large majority of the controllers of the church believe hardly anything they preach. The Pope I might except - hard to see that kindly, gentle old man intentionally living a lie, but then I don't see the Pope running the church, either. He is a figurehead, little more.
I'd have to say I do, too, although (hopefully) for better reasons. I make excuses to the kids why they can't do this or that instead of just saying "Because I don't want to". There is always the question of "Does this make me look fat?" - the end of the world for any man.
How about you - you said Trump lies every day - have you checked his twitters every day and listened to every comment he has made, even since he took office? Did you make an honest effort to figure out what he means rather than simply claiming a lie? I very highly doubt both of these, but you DID make the claim. Beyond that, do you promise to call, without meaning a word of it, or tell your wife she looks great in that ugly dress? Do you compliment a friend on their handiwork while thinking you could do it lots better? Ever give an opinion in agreement rather than start a ruckus?
I think the large majority of people lie on a steady basis, if not every single day of their lives (is exaggerating the number of Trumps tales a lie?).
Hey there promisem,
I originally posed this question to peoplepower73, but I will ask you the same.
In viewing the clips of his "treasonous" statements, and seeing the context, body language, and facial expressions, do you really think he intended his remarks as a serious charge of treason?
Hello, GA. That's a perfectly reasonable question about any normal President under other circumstances. But Trump is not a normal President.
He says many things impulsively. Whether or not he was serious, I don't think any President should use the word "treason" without a very strong case.
I agree with you promisem, but I was just making the point that it was a stretch to watch it, and, think he was serious.
I think peoplepower73 nailed it in his comment on another thread:
Trump calls democrats at State of the Union treasonous.
Er....this is the thread you linked, GA. Already into the juice tonight? I am...
Yeah right, it's okay, it's Saturday night.
And you seem to have a new signature icon which further backs up my suspicions.
Wow...the people who oppose Trump on this thread make me laugh with the hypocrisy and double standards. Guess what Democrats have said about Trump? He's been falsely accused of everything from colluding with Russians to affairs with porn stars as well as being mentally incompetent and more. And Democrats have to cry like a five-year-old because someone said they're treasonous?
Anybody who has been in the military knows it the instructor who is the toughest on you who makes you the best possible. The days of accommodating for the mentally weak and emotionally needy is over. Real adults are taking control of the country who are bothy Republicans and Democrats.
Guess what? Democrats are treasonous. Everything from IRS Scandal to the Benghazi scandal to Fast & Furious, wire tapping Trump as well as Obama trying to make immigration laws against the rule of the Constitution as well as how they've treated this president proves they care more about their agenda than they do the country.
It's obvious Democrats care more about illegal aliens than they do people who obey the immigration laws of this country. As someone who has had to deal with LEGAL immigration with friends and family, I can tell you this situation with the “Dreamers” really makes me mad.
The treason of Democrats is much more than not standing during the SOTU. It's much deeper. This article from the National Review puts it in perspective.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/45 … nd-treason
We should expect more of our politicians, but they're all just children.
What the Democrats did to Trump was no different than what the Republicans did to Obama.
They're all playing these games while the regular people (US!!) go at each other arguing about who's right and who's wrong.
Meanwhile, nothing gets done in Washington and the level of discourse in our country just sinks lower and lower.
We might as well just call each other names.
Crankalicious, you have a very valid point. We have no real power to change these people in Washington DC and their behavior. They do what they do and we just point fingers and one another and complain. I suppose this is because we all really do care deeply about our country. I have friends who are very liberal and we get along because we don't discuss politics. With that out of the mix, we get along quite well. So, I guess going forward I realize I will never see the world through the eyes of a liberal. With the liberals in my family, I only offer an opinion if asked and we usually only talk about family stuff. Yeah, some relationships are more valuable than politics.
Our politicians reflect the will of ignorant voters and self-centered campaign contributors.
If we want better politicians, we need to increase voter education, block propaganda and reform campaign finance laws.
We can't blame politicians for doing what people tell them to do.
This is exactly right. I'm tired of voters not taking responsibility for the politicians they select. Every member of Congress and the President were voted on by the people. Too many voters do not take the time to fully investigate their candidates' character and policy positions. Most just vote along party lines, even if their candidate is an admitted sexual predator or obviously in the pocket of a particular industry.
Yes, it's hard to find good candidates, but we have to stop voting for those who spend the most money on advertising or who garner the most face time on TV with their antics. We have to dig deeper, be wiser, use our knowledge and common sense, and support people of good character without rich donors. Help them rise to the top. Bernie was able to raise money from small donors. Find a good candidate and be one of those small donors. Regular people cannot compete against the wealthy unless ALL of us regular people participate in the process from beginning to end. We must take responsibility!
All you Trump supporters out there, you tell me he was joking after watching this video link. . He uses one of his favorite ways to suggest things, but never saying they were his idea. He uses phrases like: : "a lot of people told me: someone said: many people believe: a lot of people know: someone in the audience said"
It's all done by indirect implication. That way he can say, "I never said that." It's all very clever and deceptive. Treason and un-American are very serious allegations.
Here is the video link:
www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2018/ … are_btn_tw
I hope he wasn't joking. Democrats are treasonous and un-American. They care more for people who break our laws and come here illegally than they do for people who follow the laws and come here legally. They are so focused on lawbreakers they'r willing to shut down the government and punish the military to protect them. I won't get into the list of things done under the Obama administration, because it would be too long. Democrats are the ones who paid to have a fake document created by a foreign government and used to obtain a warrant to spy on a presidential candidate. That's one of the most recent examples. Yeah, that's just the tip of the iceberg. President Trump was as he always is when it comes to Democrats; spot on.
"He uses one of his favorite ways to suggest things, but never saying they were his idea."
His "favorite ways". Can you give a few examples where he has done it in the past, laughing as he did so as an indication of how silly it is?
Does that "ignorant voters" also include those that elected Pres. Obama and a Democrat-controlled Congress in 2008?
Yes, for those that voted ignorantly. In the example you give, some did and some did not.
Anyone who automatically votes for a party's candidate simply because of party is voting ignorantly.
Someone who votes for a candidate because of that candidate's character, policies, skills and experience is not voting ignorantly.
Agree or disagree?
I would like to agree promisem, but I can't.
It's the part about voting the party line that I have trouble agreeing with. My perspective does agree with you, but that is only my perspective. I can see the possible rationalization for some folks - intelligent voters - voting their party. I don't agree with them, but I can't judge them ignorant for doing so. It is just that their reasons aren't my reasons.
For instance; Although I couldn't do it, I can see the reasoning of an "anybody but..." vote.
How do you know Trump's been falsely accused, Mike? Do you realize the Mueller investigation isn't over yet? Do you have inside info others aren't privy to?
Of course you don't!, simply your opinion.
Hey there peoplepower73,
I watched the clips of his "treasonous" quips. My "take" was that it was a jab at the Democrats, certainly not a serious accusation. My point is that the context surrounding the "charge," the facial expressions and body-language, all indicated, to me, that it was a partisan jab, not a serious charge of actual treasonous acts.
Now, put your Pres. Trump feelings aside for a second - Did you really see his statement to be a serious charge of treason?
GA Anderson: I did not see his statement as a serious charge of actual treason because I know what constitutes the act of treason. But I bet you dollars to donuts, many of those people in that audience don't know what it really is and what the punishment for treason can be.
He may have meant it as a tongue in cheek jab. But he knows damn well many of his supporters will believe him, because no matter whatever the reason, they are not going to take the time to even find out what treason really is and Trump knows that. But to them, it does sound un-American, evil, and disloyal, When people are kidding, they will say they are kidding, but he didn't do that. Because he wanted them to take away the notion of the democratic congress is treasonous, un-American, and evil.
Don't forget, this is what he really said that gave them the permission to think that way. My comments follow in italic.
"They were like death and un-American. Un-American. Somebody said, 'Treasonous.' I mean, yeah, I guess, why not," he said to laughter. [i](I guess why not he said, that is permission)[i]
"Can we call that treason? Why not," he added. [i] more permission[i] He made the remarks during a speech at a manufacturing plant in Cincinnati, Ohio.
"I mean they certainly didn't seem to love our country that much," he said, adding it was "very, very sad." [i]adding more fuel to the fire[i]
I think we have to chalk it up to our president's ignorance, which he goes out of his way every day to display. Whether or not he realizes it, his statement meant, "these people committed treason because they did not applaud ME." That is a Hitlertarian (to coin a new word) Maoist, Stalinist statement if there ever was one. Republicans often complain that his words are taken out of context, but when the listener puts his words into context, they are even more damning. To use his definition, the statement itself could be considered "treasonous" because he is putting himself above the welfare of the country.
Reminds me of the lyrics of a song from the movie Li'l Abner: "What's good for General Cornpone is good for the U.S.A."
Hey there MizBejabbers, I started off agreeing with you, at least as far as your first sentence;
"I think we have to chalk it up to our president's ignorance, which he goes out of his way every day to display."
Whew! Talk about a political 'Faux pas '! I think you are right, he just hands you guys more and more grenades to lob his way.
And then... I could even agree that your second sentence, except that along with the "me" you should include something about agreeing with his view of the direction of American, (his perspective), thought.
But after that I think you just followed a partisan path. I think he is just patting himself on the back for what he sees as a change in American direction - that he thinks he is orchestrating, (and maybe he is).
All that "Hitertarian" stuff is beyond my ken, I will leave that comparison to you folks.
*(but, as a nod to PrettyPanther, we all know how I feel about "Hitler" comparisons)
The problem with our president, GA, is that we can't always tell when he's joking or being sarcastic, or when he really means it. There are a couple of people in my life that I have to constantly remind, it's not my job to interpret your tone of voice, but your job to make what you say understandable. Someone needs to tell the president that.
My level of respect for him went even lower than before. I don't think he even knows what treason is.
Anyone that actually listened to that, that put it into the context it was said in or even paid attention to what was actually said, cannot possibly believe he meant it factually. TDS strikes again.
Likewise, I'm surprised you don't see a problem with Trump using the words "treason" and "treasonous" to describe people who don't clap for him.
The White House spent today saying Trump didn't really mean it when he said he welcomes a government shutdown or when he said Democrats are un-American and perhaps treasonous for not clapping for him. Add to that his intent to waste millions of dollars on a huge military parade to feed his bizarre need for adoration....and Trump supporters think this is "normal" and his detractors are not?
Geez, you Trump fans rally need to rethink your position. History books will not be kind to those who actively support the petty, authoritarian narcissist
Wait a minute Wilderness, I am trying to think of a non-sarcastic way to agree with you.
... nope, I got nothing. Carry on.
Well, Trump has an infantile, narcissistic personality. Not everyone is going to agree with your premise, get over it!
Wilderness: You haven't gotten it yet. Trump brands everybody and every group he doesn't like. He gives them names to diminish them in the eyes of his supporters. He is now calling Adam Shiff, "Little Adam." His word is not to be trusted. It means nothing. One day he says he is looking forward to meeting with Muller under oath. Now he says he will not do the interview and will only release the democrat's memo if Muller calls off the interview. I ask all his supporters again, if has nothing to hide, why does he not do the interview?
Tell me - what will the interview do for him, or even for the nation? We already see the response to a memo pointing out wrongdoing by liberals ("IT'S A LIE!"), so what do you think would be different about his testimony?
You remind me of one of the more common "proofs" of the believers: "If you can't explain creation to my satisfaction then it proves a god" - "if you can't satisfy my ignorance of 'why not' to my satisfaction then there is foul play". With, of course, no possibility whatsoever of answering to your satisfaction.
You can’t argue with a Trump supporter. Their minds are closed tighter than Alcatraz. Logic? Doesn’t exist.
Wilderness: Obama's birth; "People have told me that he was born in Kenya." When questioned, he could not divulge his sources.
Obama's College: "They say he never went to college. I have people searching for his records who can't even find them."
Voter Fraud: I've been told I lost the popular vote because of voter fraud. He convened a committee to investigate. Have you heard any conclusion? And you never will because he likes to leave issues open so that his supporters can continue to believe him.
On collusion: "All the democrats have said that there is no collusion."
If you want more about his lying and misleading claims, read this and view the video. You tell me if he was joking and being silly.
http://wapo.st/2iUo0nP?tid=ss_tw&ut … 82aa67ea83
This is even better: Have fun with it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics … 6701164741
Peoplepower I have a question for you. Hillary Clinton is one of the best documented liars in the history of American politics. Her milder ones were being named after Sir Edmond Hillary....which wasn't possible...because he didn't climb Mt. Everest until after she was born and before then he was unknown. Coming under sniper fire in Bosnia...she repeated several times over several day when video footage shows she walked down a carpet, was greeted by children and even given flowers. One of the worst was Benghazi. So, Hillary supporters were supporting a proven liar for president. Having a liar in the White house was a goal. So, what's the problem? If you think Donald Trump lies, then it should be what you wanted if you wanted Hillary. To complain makes Hillary supporter look very hypocritical and people with double standards.
READMIKENOW: It is the degree, frequency, magnitude, and the denial that he even lies about lying that is disconcerting to me. You are right what you cited about Hillary's lies are minor compared to Trump. As far as Benghazi goes, Hillary was proven innocent after months of intense congressional investigations:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/us/p … ghazi.html
Peoplepower...come on. Unlike you I read the Congressional report. Charges were never brought because of a corrupt Justice Department. The only time Hillary Clinton doesn't lie is when she doesn't open her mouth.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … ng-claims/
So, you're okay with a president lying...as long as it's in the realm of lying that makes you comfortable? Is that it?
READMIKENOW: So according to your link, Hillary has lied 1/4 of time while campaigning. I know you want to ignore this and make excuses for Trump lying. But here it is compared to Hillary's.
Trump has made 1,628 false or misleading claims over 298 days. If my math serves me right, that is 5.4 lies or misleading claims per day over a 298 day period. I hope you don't lie that much. Please don't ignore these links, they tell the real story.
http://wapo.st/2iUo0nP?tid=ss_tw&ut … dffca96e58
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics … 6701164741
You were comfortable with having a president who lies, so now you have one, what's the problem? A lie is a lie. You should be happy, he's met your standard for lying.
So Mike, you're not bothered by Trump's many lies but you were about Hillary's? I'm bothered by any intentional lie no matter who tells it. The family values of the Religious right and many conservatives seem to have vanished when Trump made the scene.
I do not have a standard for lying. Please don't put words in my mouth that I did not say.
A lie is not just a lie. Lies have consequences, some lies have huge damaging consequences. General Westmorland lied that he was winning the war in Viet Nam so that he could prolong it. Thousands of more troops were killed as a result of prolonging that war.
George W. Bush lied about Saddam Hussein having WMDs. It was all based on a presentation made by Colin Powell at an UN meeting. He presented artist renderings of where and what these facilities looked like. Even I know that you don't go to war based on somebodies drawings.
Achmed Chalibi, an Iraqi Shia politician wanted Saddam out of office so he could rule Iraq. He lied to Bush's Intelligence agencies and defense staff about Saddam having WMDs so that he could take over Iraq. This was the main justification for invading Iraq and taking Saddam out. We are still there. How many troops have been killed as a result of these lies?
So you see my friend, there is a a difference in lies. A lie is not just a lie as you say.
They say Obama lied about "If you like your doctor, you get to keep him or her." I believe he was given misinformation, but in any case what is the consequences of that?
They say Hillary lied about Benghazi and four Seals and an ambassador were killed. How does that compare to thousands of troops being killed in Viet Nam and the mid-east as a result of lying?
Readmikenow has it right. When increasing deficit spending is the only way to get anything done, we do play into the hands of enemies, giving them aid and comfort. I am certain that V. Putin is smiling everytime the democrats turn the screw for more debt. By 2040 our debt service will be so high that our kids and grandkids may not be able to prosper.
So the Republicans pass a spending bill that increases the deficit, and you're still bitching and blaming Democrats? You Trump thumpers would complain if you had gold-plated a$$holes.
Ooohhh! Can I get one of those? Should help with that "itching, burning sensation", don't you think?
Had Trump never seen a State of the Union address before? Did he even watch last year when he was president -elect? The loyal opposition always does this. Nothing out of the ordinary this year - except the infantile person in office now.
It was deleted by HP staff. It's now O.K. to read and post your comments.
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