I have often heard it said that everyone deserves respect. I agree that everyone deserves a certain level of respect, unless they do something to "un-earn" it. In these forums, we only know what we see written on the page (with a few exceptions, I know). So, if someone writes something profoundly wrong, such as advocating that President Obama be shot by a firing squad, do they then forfeit being treated with respect on the forums? I say they do.
Let me give a less obvious example. Suppose a poster repeatedly posts outlandish statements that are easily discredited by facts. Does this poster deserve "respect"? I personally cannot respect that person on the forums. Meeting in person would be a different story, but respect on these forums is based upon how a person conducts themselves here.
There are many posters with whom I frequently disagree, but still respect. Wilderness and gmwilliams come to mind. I want to make it clear that my belief that lack of respect is sometimes justified is not about disagreeing with ideas; but about having little regard for a person's judgment.
Just throwing this out there for consideration. Maybe I am wrong to ridicule certain statements, but I just can't help myself. I must be possessed by the devil himself. ;-)
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I think I understand where you want to go with this. Although for clarity I would say respect as it applies to an opinion, not the person. But... I must admit to the weakness of transferring that lack of respect for someone's opinion to a lack of respect for the person when their comments reach chucklehead levels.
Relative to these forums, I would use the word credibility rather than respect.
I appreciate what you are saying. It is important to separate opinions from the person. What I find difficult--and I'm trying to see if someone can convince me I am wrong or misguided--is respecting a person who has no regard for the truth, or facts. Again, I want to be clear that I understand two people can look at the same facts and have different opinions about what those facts mean. I'm referring to people who will deny facts, repeatedly, because those facts would cause them to doubt their world view. Obama was born in Kenya. Obama is a Muslim. These are ridiculous beliefs that have been proven to be factually incorrect. I cannot respect a person who continues to believe these statements. Are they entitled to my respect? I am not so sure.
Those talons are out tonight, Panther. I have to have problems with people that talk about Obama as the antiChrist and the current Pope as the false prophet?
that list includes birth ers,people who contine to insist that Obama is some sort of closet Muslim in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You can't have an discussion with those totally oblivious to fact And the process of reason.
You have to be careful as such people have ran out of discussion points and prefer to win by default by turning the criticism of their indefensible positions into a personal attack to bring to the attention of the Hub Pages Dream Police, Cheap Trick, HUH?
Pretty Panther, statements in a discourse or argument must be logical and analytical in scope. There must not be any hackneyed statements which cannot be supported by facts and/or experience. However, the last component has to be logically conducive to the argument or discourse. Threatening statements have no place in an intelligent argument or discourse. Also ad hominem statements and statements that have no bases in logic have no place in an argument nor discussion
Respect is a component that has to be earned in a discussion as well as life circumstances. Not everyone deserves respect based upon their actions and their attitude towards others. In or.der to receive respect, one has to give respect. One has to cognizant of the fact that each person has his/her different perspective regarding the topic at hand. Each person should be allowed his/her own perspective as long as it is logically and analytically presented and that h/she does not intrude upon others' right to express their opinions as long as such opinions are conclusive.
We may have differing perspectives regarding President Obama but please do not make offhand, offensive, prejudicial, and inconclusive remarks about him. If one has a divergent opinion, present that opinion with logical substantiation, observation, and analysis. Threatening statements/remarks have no place in a discussion or argument.
Respect is something you earn. At the outset of a conversation you have to at least have an openness to the other persons expression before you can determine whether they have earned that respect. I have to admit I have gotten caught up in some peoples' crap and lost my perspective and have been censored for doing so. I deserved it every time. It is especially hard with some who pass crackpot opinion off as fact and then use it as a detour from the topic at hand. That is the fabric of our society. I blame that on the "free" press as they report what they want us to believe. The monsters born from such garbage have that much farther to go to work their way to the truth. I feel sorry for them as they waste their time trying to prove the unprovable.
I don't feel sorry for them, unless they are simply feeble-minded and have been brainwashed since birth or something. Most of them, however, are thinking adults who have chosen, usually because of fear, to live in a self-perpetuating bubble. Sorry, don't feel sorry for them and don't respect them.
"Most of them, however, are thinking adults who have chosen..."
No they're not. They gave that up in favor of emotion, usually hate or fear.
Well, true, I should have said have the ability to be thinking adults.
I would disagree with this assessment. Without knowing how someone has reached the conclusions they are sharing; you are simply speculating as to what the reasons are for their stated opinions. Some people can be considered better at articulating ideas; simply because we can follow their train of thought more easily. That does not mean that their ideas are better; it simply means we are more capable of following the train of thought (many times because our own have run that same course) whether we ultimately agree with them or not.
I haven't followed this thread because I find the idea that respect is 'deserved' a sad assumption. Everyone deserves to be treated in a respectful manner. If we cannot bring ourselves to do this it is not the fault of the person we are disrespectful toward. It is our own fault for not holding ourselves to a certain standard. We degrade ourselves by approaching others in a degrading manner; not the one we set out to degrade.
We all say the forums are here for an exchange of ideas. But, that is less than honest in many instances. For the most part, people are here to state their opinions; not in search of valid arguments which will force them to rethink them. If we don't like some opinions and we don't agree with the reasoning behind them we should still be courteous. I am not one who adheres to this at all times but I am honest enough to understand when I don't it is my fault. Having one, or many, agree that my behavior is justified won't change the fact that I was in the wrong.
Okay, there is a difference between respecting someone and treating them with respect. Also, what is considered to be disrespectful varies from person to person.
To be clear, I do not blame the other person for my behavior. I deliberately choose to make fun of a person who denies obvious facts. I am intentionally choosing to respond to them in this manner, because I believe it is one way to expose beliefs and behaviors that are, at best, holding us back from achieving positive results and, at worst, actually harming people.
Free speech works all ways. Apparently, some consider my responses to be "disrespectful." i consider their call for me to show respect to be a plea to let them post their nonsense without negative consequences.
I think of it as more of a trap. I truly believe most don't want to think about the facts because it would require an analytical process and possibly refute their opinion. Either way it is a vicious cycle and hard to escape.
I had a conversation with a group the other night at dinner and the topic of the 2007-2008 Wall Street debacle came up. Most at the table thought the high taxes were the culprit of the banks defaulting. When I mentioned the repeal of Glass/Steagall in 1999 under Clinton as the beginning of the open gambling of bank assets which caused the defaults they kind of cocked their heads like a dog does when you make a funny sound. None of them knew what it was nor when or why it was enacted. But they all can quote Fox Snooze as to how Obama was to blame for it. LOL.
May I interject from pretty much an observer view? A possible point to consider is it may not necessarily be the established HP guidelines for its forums nor the evolving etiquette within each separate forum, yet decorum regarding respect related to culture. Possibly I am incorrect while some may think I am wrong.
As an observer seeking learning from discussions I have interest I am first thankful to many teachers who unwittingly mentored as well. So, there seems even when there is disagreement while at times respect may be questioned there is a value having worth. To elaborate from a personal perspective I have an acceptance that all teachers are friends. I am happy with that.
So, again, thank you . . .
When I lose respect for a hubber (in 4 years I think it has happened twice) I simply stop reading them. I doubt they ever notice. I'm not going to argue with someone with no regard for facts. Truth is another issue. It's subjective. Facts are objective. As we saw in the last 24 hours in a congressional hearing, your liking or not liking certain facts does not change them. Same is true on HP.
Do you think irony, sarcasm, and humor are appropriate tools to battle a hopeless disregard for the facts? Do you think it is disrespectful to use those tools when it is obvious that rational arguments are ignored?
Political forums exist for the purpose of discussion, debate, and enlightenment, I think.
Respect , "A two way street " , comes to mind . How many times these days are opinions simply mowed over by the loudest voice ? How many times is political correctness the tool of the masses ? I find that Instantly , everyone runs to their respective corners in the forums . And lets face it , whether we will admit it or not , are we preprogrammed towards that very corner ?
Preetypanther, I believe that if we all met in the same room , in a virtual room , we would probably act the mostly the same , that hard wiring thing , but with the actual face to face respect that our own humanity allows us . Or perhaps in forum rules . Rule # ! should be , every post HAD to be posted as a question thereby automatically showing at least some respect to others opinions ? because after all - everything in forums is an opinion .
I think that it is much easier to pigeonhole people online than in real life. I know a few people in real life who share the opinions of the Hubpages reactionaries (thank you for the term, credence) that Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya. I don't respect their intellect or their judgment. I laugh at them in real life, just like I do on the forums. It's all I can do, because there is no point in attempting to engage in a rational discussion about politics. Now, if they want to talk about football or cooking or parenting, I can speak with them just like anyone else. I can respect their culinary skills or parenting tips, while understanding that their ability to reason about certain subjects is impaired.
Forums remind me of note passing in Junior high school , want to "show your love " or say something to someone without having to have courage enough to actually say it , "face to face " ? But then , to have the audacity to pass them a nasty note in the hall , is far easier . We can all be so juvenile.
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