Why can't people discuss race in a productive manner?
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
0 - ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
Martin Luther King was a man of God who was trying to help people, and he was shot down in Memphis. He was also called every evil name in the book. A black person doesn't have to be doing anything bad to be called the N-word in this racist society. All they have to be is black. This has been proven over and over again. It is a mistake for Black and Indigenous people to believe that they can live in an inclusive society with white people. We have been excluded for nearly 250 years. This should tell even Forrest Gump what time it is.
The majority do not want to listen or learn. They only want to promote their Eurocentric vision of the world. Several years ago Jesus said this:
Matthew 19:16-26
And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?”
And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
The Americans have murdered, they have raped, they have committed adultery, and they have committed theft on a grand scale. They did not love their neighbor across the sea, but instead they murdered him so that they could take control of his possessions. And they enslaved him to suit their greedy and slothful nature. They have also concocted one lie after another; the biggest lie being that all men are created equal:
The U.S. Constitution:
“...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness...."
Considering that the chief architects of this document were rapists, kidnappers, murderers, and slave-owners, the Constitution actually reads as follows:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all "White" Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
And so we clearly see that collectively, America as a nation, has broken God's commandments. Furthermore, just like the rich man, they are unwilling to return their stolen possessions, and give away all of their stolen riches to the poor, the Indigenous, and the African. And since a majority of Americans do not believe in God, they will not seek divine intervention, and so it will not be given. Thus, America has sown the seeds of her own destruction.
P.S.
The blood of a snake is not red. The blood of the demon that crawls on his belly is green.
I'm not surprised. I have heard similar racist expressions. But 9 times out of 10, when you politely ask them to explain their reasoning, they are unable to do so. MLK never enslaved anyone, stole anyone's property, or murdered anyone. George Washington did all three. Yet, the same people who vilify MLK never give old George a second thought. And that also brings to mind the great irony of the Colin Kaepernick. controversy.
A lot of people are upset that he he won't honor the National Anthem. But the truth is, Colin Kaepernick hasn't sent anyone's son or daughter out into a desert to die, to kill, or to be disfigured for the sake of big oil and U.S. corporate profits. Not one! In fact, he is using his celebrity to raise awareness, to keep killer cops in the spotlight, and to prevent people from being killed by the police. But none of the same people who criticize Kaepernick appear to be upset that the U.S. government is the very reason that young American men and women are suffering and dying in the killing fields of the Middle East.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
As I have explained before, it is not possible for a minority to be racist in a society ruled by an oppressive majority. It is only possible for minorities to hate, and to despise their evil oppressors. But as witnessed after 9/11, white Americans don't seem to have a problem with hating their oppressors, even if those oppressors possess imaginary weapons of mass destruction.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
No Kathryn , I believe its far far easier to jump onto the victimization wagon . After all , we have to feed those damaged ego's from a century ago according to P.C..
Or we have to really open our eye's to the truth - There is only one of those !
Hatred like justice is blind .
-------------------------------
This photo , by the way is not my daughter ., it is from google images.But they did. Problems to be solved are opportunities to bring heaven to earth.
How can we bring heaven to earth for you, Diane?
pay them for back wages?
is that practical? is that reasonable?
Africa itself sold its black men to those who bought them. Sue the sellers of their own people? who are long gone dead in the grave…
lets unearth those bones and demand compensation!!!!
If someone owes you back wages are you suggesting that you do not expect payment? Really? I don't know of anyone who would not expect to be paid for their labor. Not one person, unless they volunteered to work for free. The slaves did not volunteer. But here is a really good example:
I assume that you have children, grandchildren, or at least a family. Whatever the case may be, let us imagine for the sake of argument that you have young children. Now let us imagine that you have money, and that you plan on leaving your entire estate to your children when you die. But one day a man comes along and steals everything that you own. He is also a human trafficker who sells you and your children into slavery. Keep in mind that this is happening today. Now let us imagine that ten years later the FBI, or some other law enforcement agency, arrests the original perpetrator of this crime, and also frees you and your children from bondage. This would be great news. But you and your children now have nothing. You have no home, you have no money in the bank, and you don't even have a job. But the man who stole your life savings, your property, and who enslaved you and your children was living in a mansion on the day of his arrest, as he had become wealthy from the business of human trafficking. Also keep in mind that this man has a wife and children who have also benefited from his criminal enterprise.
Now that I have laid the foundation, would you consider it unreasonable to expect that after ten years, this man and his family might owe you something. You and your children are suffering through no fault of your own, while another man's family has prospered from your misery. And if you agree that after ten years the criminal should repay what has been stolen from you and your family, then what about 20 years, 30 years, 50 years, 100 years, or even 250 years? At what point do you feel there should be a statute of limitations, after which the progeny of evil can maintain their ill-gotten inheritance?
Furthermore, many Americans do not understand that it is not necessarily working class whites who owe reparations, as all white people did not own slaves, even though the majority profited indirectly. It is the major corporations and wealthy institutions like Yale, Harvard, Wachovia Corporation, Brooks Brothers, JPMorgan Chase, and Lehman Brothers who profited the most, and who bear the greatest responsibility of slave reparations.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
wrenchBiscuit: A Plan For Reparations
The answer concerning you and your family is: "No". If you look like a white man, and think like a white man, you do not deserve any reparations. It doesn't matter if you have a small percentage of Indigenous or African blood. If you are looking for a handout go stand in the welfare line, or buy yourself a lotto ticket and try your luck. I understand that this is all amusing to you, but there will be justice delivered for over 500 years of evil and abuse. And there is nothing that you, or even the government of the United States can do about it. A universal law has been broken, the image of God has been defiled, and so a payment is due, and it will be collected. America can either submit to the will of God, or she can point her weapons of mass destruction toward the heavens, and in all of her arrogant glory, she can defy and challenge the Creator of All Things. Good luck with that.
You are looking at the situation from a materialistic, and European point of view. And of course, I cannot imagine any other way that you could think. My time is limited, and so I will focus on the problem of reparations for the descendants of African slaves. The methodology I explain here can also be applied to the Indigenous.
I am sure that when the time comes to deliver long overdue reparations to those of African heritage, many will seek to "scientifically" determine the degree of racial purity. I suspect they may also require genealogical records dating back to at least the early 1900's. I do not know how such a thing could work, and from a layman's perspective, I am skeptical of the effectiveness and accuracy of such a method.
But there is a much simpler way to do this. Of course, many who are atheists will not understand, because they are on their way to hell in a hand-basket. But anyone who understands the Love of God will understand my methodology. First of all, we do not need to complicate the issue. We do not need blood tests, DNA, or genealogy charts. All we need is a heart that is beating, and two eyes that can see. The only paperwork that should be required is proof of U.S. citizenship.
I can look at a man and see that he is a black man, and I can look at a woman and see that she is a black woman. This is not rocket science. I also understand that a majority of the black people living in the United States are the descendants of slaves. Surnames like Washington, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Brown,and Robinson are a dead giveaway. And so, according to "my system", which is not my system at all, but simply the will of God, all black U.S. citizens are entitled to reparations; every single one of them. And these reparations are not only for the 400 years of slavery they were forced to endure, but also for the systemic racism they have endured since Reconstruction.
Of course, the naysayers will be quick to point out that there are black U.S. citizens from Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, South Africa, and other parts of the African continent who have only recently migrated here to become U.S. citizens. They will suggest that these people are not the descendants of slaves, and do not warrant reparations. Thus, they will say that my system is not a "fair" system.'
But in the Book of John, when the adulteress stood before the angry crowd, Jesus did not ask for a bulleted list of how many times the women had committed adultery,or how many of the other commandments she had broken. He did not ask because he already knew. Jesus said to the angry crowd of evil doer's: "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and of course, the crowd turned and walked away.And then Jesus told the woman "Go, and sin more".This is a beautiful demonstration of the Love of God, and the Love of God supersedes the law of man .
So what does this mean? It means that if we collectively pray for the Love of God, it will descend upon us like a cool summer rain, and the Love of God will guide us down the proper path. Yes, from a selfish perspective we can understand that my system might appear to be unfair. There will be some who might receive reparations who may not appear to be qualified. But a student of history understands that the entire African continent was destabilized by Colonialism, and the TransAtlantic Slave Trade. And so, the payback that is forthcoming is much greater than many Americans realize. And if we sow a seed of corn, we cannot expect a beanstalk to rise up from the Earth. We can only expect a stalk of corn.
It was grossly unfair to uproot tens of millions of people, the image of God, and force them to endure the degradations of slavery for nearly 400 years. And the stain of this evil will endure for at least another 4,000 years, because for every year that an evil endures, the harvest shall be tenfold. The Americans can only mitigate the evil that is coming home to roost by praying for the Love of God, and by sincerely asking the forgiveness of the Indigenous and the African. And reparations is a big part of this process of atonement and forgiveness. It is only natural that when sorting out this mess that there will at least appear to be a certain amount of unfairness in the process, as these are the seeds that have been sown.
I am sure this is not the answer that many are looking for, but it is often a bitter pill that can save a man's life, or ease a man's suffering. Without the Love of God, America will surely be destroyed. I have seen this in my dreams, and since I was a child, I have found that my dreams often come true. What I have seen is too horrible to explain, but I can assure you all that it is more horrific than the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it not only exceeds the evil of the Jewish Holocaust, but it exceeds the Holocaust of the First Nations as well, a Holocaust that resulted in the genocide of over 100 million Indigenous people.You're making a lot of points there so here are some more ,
- Democrats were responsible for much of the "Reparations Era " problems against ex slaves being able to enter into our economy as a free people , are you aware of that , even including the originating of the KKK ?
-Many ex-slaves stayed on with their previous owners after the emancipation for lack of other opportunities AND because they were as happy there as anywhere especially getting paid for sharecropping as were many white families .
-Are you aware that much of the civil rights advancement -resistance- was because of democrats ?
-"Slaves " per say , were nowhere near the only indentured people in America's beginning , read up on our colonial people especially those coming from England , Ireland , Scotland .
-If you know your history , you would also know that many of America's founding fathers were writing about being anti- slavery right from America's colonial inception .
-Slavery was, economically , a world activity long before America was even a dream .
-It's so obvious that those who are willing the new discussions about slavery and it's p.c. status , especially for "reparations ", are blind to much of our world history , and OR American history .
-Slavery contrary to millennial belief was NOT an American invention .
I'm not looking for reparations. My God has blessed me in so many ways. Anger and hate will kill you. I am not afraid to speak of today's unjustice. My frustration is speaking of today's issues and have them considered as race baiting or Obama's fault.
I know about all of the points you made. I am aware that white indentureds were included on Schedule 2. Indentured had parameters. Slaves had nothing other than the mercy of some few slave owners who saw them as somewhat human.
What I'd like for everyone to to agree on is
1. We can't change the past.
2. We all have responsibility to make this world a better place - pointing fingers is a detractor.
3. We can start by being willing to listen to each other even if we don't agree with each other.
I don't care about Democrat/Republican. Governor Orval E. Faubus was in office when I first started school. He was a Democrat. Notorius George Wallace was a Democrat.
Lyndon Johnson had no love for Black people but he worked with Dr. MLK to pass the most imporant Civil Rights legislation ever. It proves that anybody can change. It ain't about the party.
Now! It seems we (maybe Live or Wilderness requested) that we only talk about the last 150 years. I didn't bring this up!!!! but I responded.
why? I love my job! I am the one who gives the kids a vacation from their teacher! Subs are like real teachers, only cooler! I saw that on a T shirt.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
Wrench , That was a long winded and much expected response , In other words , when it comes to entitlement ," Just give it up and don't worry about the details " according to looks ! , Its also just as hypocritical as I would have expected too ! IN other words ," If I can't explain the system of reparations , I will use the word of God to do it , that will be the ultimate answer ," How easily it is for Godspeak to be the ultimate cause all, cure all , solution all , And here's the thing ; How easily it was to engage slavery , manifest destiny , westward expansion , BY DOING THE SAME THING !
God is my cause . , he is my Guide , my Savior , my Reparation guide . No Wrench , God is your personal reason for who you are and who you profess yourself to be every time No Matter How Much hatred , resentment , discourse you spread ?. One day you may or may not see your own hypocrisy , I hope for your sake you do , your hatred will eat you up because it fills you .
wrenchBiscuit In Paradise
You can ridicule and mock all that you want. The medicine is meant for you, as I am in no need of salvation. I deal with you simply because it is my responsibility to do so. But I assure you , when the progeny of evil are trampled under foot, I will shed no tears. You have accepted the popular fiction that all there is has been written in a book. But "all there is" existed here in Cemanahuac, long before the evil came into the Earth. Capitalism, Colonialism, and Materialism have now spread like a plague throughout the entire world.
I'm not only talking about saving human lives , I am talking about saving the white race from itself. And that includes you and yours. Anyone can take a look around and see that this evil system is about ready to self-destruct. But unfortunately, it appears that human arrogance will prevail. People from all walks of life have recently warned of the coming apocalypse, each in their own way. But the ignorant do not know how to read the signs. They do not receive the visions because they have hardened their hearts against God and man. Each innocent man , woman, and child who is murdered by the emissaries of evil stand as a witness
But please, let the ship of fools continue on their journey to oblivion. In the last days of man God has elevated me to a position of comfort and security. .Apparently there are those here who feel that by continuing to promote the fiction that I am filled with hate, that somehow I will become infected with their evil words, consumed by their own fantasy, and thus fade away. But I will tell you how this day will be for me, as many days before, and many days to come after.
Today I will go to the beach, which is only minutes away. I will take my laptop computer, an umbrella, and my old Ovation acoustic guitar. I will sit there on the beach and watch the beautiful waves of the Atlantic roll in , as I follow the muse; I will watch the sandpipers scurry along the beach in formation , leaving their tiny footprints in the sand.
And as always, the Pelicans with their prehistoric features will wander about as if I am not even there. Perhaps they like the sound of the music. But I must hurry, today could be very special. It is raining again, and a great storm is said to be approaching. Hopefully it will still be raining when I arrive at the shoreline. If so I will leave my umbrella and computer wrapped, and I will sit in the rain and play my old guitar. Rain or shine, I cannot lose, and in spite of all of the evil that surrounds me, I am living in the light of Love.
Only God could have made this life that I am now living possible.Only God lifted me up when I was forgotten and left for dead. The people have been lied to for so long that they are filled with confusion. Love is the answer. Jesus said it, many prophets and philosophers have said it, John Lennon said it. And now I can only verify that it is true.There is no other answer to anything at all. It is so simple that even a child can do it: Let Go and Let God.
.
wrenchBiscuit: On Speaking to God and Higher Entities
Yes there is much resentment and anger, especially when we consider the greedy Capitalists; those who are seeking to put my brothers and sisters at risk in North Dakota, all for the sake of feeding their insatiable lust for power and wealth. After all of the evil they have wrought upon this continent , and throughout the world, it will be a great day of celebration when they stand before judgment.
Most people have pets during their lifetimes, and in the United States it is usually a dog or a cat. When we speak to these animals we realize that they will not understand the words. Even when we tell a dog to sit, and then he follows the command, that does not mean he understands the language, he simply identifies a particular sound with an action. But the dog could not possibly understand all of the forms of "sit": Sit,Sat,Setting,Sits,Set. Consequently, when we speak to a dog or a cat, we are more concerned with conveying a particular emotion or command, and as you know, the animal is often quick to respond.
Of course, I have no doubt that with God all things are possible. But I believe that much of what we observe from our own limited viewpoint is simply a microcosm of the greater Universe. I feel the way we relate to animals is similar to the way that God, or higher entities relate and "speak" to us. I also understand that compared to that which is so far above us, we are very fragile. This is supported in Exodus 33:20 when God said to Moses:
"You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
Yes, I am sure that God can speak to us with the character of a human voice, but I don't feel this is often the case. And I say this for two reasons:
1. If God, or a heavenly being spoke to the average man or woman with the character of a human voice, it would most likely frighten them to death! They would wonder if they were losing their mind, and it could actually damage them, and perhaps lead to a mental illness.
2. Compared to the communication between spiritual beings, human language is very primitive. There could not possibly be words to describe what such omnipotent beings might have to say,especially almighty God. But even in a simplified linguistic form, just like a dog or a cat, it is doubtful that we would understand anything but the most basic aspect of the message. The subtle nuances would get lost in the translation. And similar to the revelation of Exodus 33:20, if God tried to force too much knowledge upon us, it would most likely "overload the circuit" so to speak, and destroy us.
And so, I believe that the most effective, and common way that God speaks to mankind is through basic images that are easy for us to understand. And I believe such communication is commonly done when we are asleep. This helps to insure that we are not frightened or damaged by the revelation. Through my experience, I also understand that these images are delivered literally and metaphorically.
Having laid this foundation, I will now answer your question: Yes, God has spoken to me throughout my lifetime, since I was a small child. This communication is conducted through images as I have explained, or simply through knowing. What I mean by the latter is that I sometimes receive information that appears to have been "transmitted" rather than being an original thought. I cannot remember ever hearing a "voice".
Much of what I have been told is of a personal nature, but there are certain things, as I alluded to in my last post, that are of a more worldly, or universal nature. It is important to note that although my mother was a devout Christian, I have never been a seeker of God in a traditional sense. I have never had much interst in the Church, although I was raised in the Church. I have been a traveling musician, and a womanizer most of my adult life. And I am also a very skeptical person. But because I have never been a cheerleader for organized religion, because I have lived a selfish and amoral life, and because many of my dreams and visions have come true, I cannot deny the power of God, and I have no doubt that God is real.
Although I have never persecuted Christians, my story reminds of the story of Saul. It reminds in the respect that I have not been seeking God, but it appears that God has been seeking me. It appears that God has taken hold of me, and thrown me to the ground; forcing me to look beyond my own carnal desire, for a glimpse of a better world. When I say "Let Go and Let God", I am saying that I no longer plan for the future; I no longer attempt to direct my life. I have seen so much misery, and I feel so much of the pain, that I no longer wish to live in such an evil place. And so I have asked God to make use of me, and to then set me free.
I have comfort and security, and I am allowed moments where I can imagine happiness. But because of what I have been shown through revelation, I now better understand the truth. I understand it is true that I do not deserve happiness in this world. I do not deserve happiness in a world where a child is born today and will die tomorrow; her precious body blown apart by munitions purchased with U.S. tax dollars. I do not deserve happiness when children are starving to death in their home; a home which consists of a cardboard box at the end of a dirty dead end street. I can only smile a crooked smile; knowing that thousands of children in the city of Flint Michigan now face a lifetime of disabilities, all because of American greed.
All of my life, I have followed the news, and I have also understood the details. But when God takes hold of a man, it is no longer a matter of statistics; it is no longer a matter of being well informed, and it is no longer a matter of a fleeting, sympathetic feeling. I tell you now that when God speaks to a man, and when God is speaking the language of Love, it is a fire that consumes the human spirit, and it imbues the man with a knowing, and an understanding that is almost too much to bear.
As an example, once, while serving in the Navy, while I was home on leave, I went to vist a Black preacher who lived at the top of a great hill, and the valley below his property was breathtaking. When I was a small child, he would always pay attention to me at Church, and at social gatherings. He would engage me in conversations, and he would tease, and ask about my girlfriends, but of course I had none. But he always made me feel that I was special and important. And because of his kindness, I developed a love for this man. During our visit, as we sat in his front yard overlooking the beautiful valley, I asked him a serious question. And I will never forget his response. I asked the preacher, "Are we at war?" And then he turned toward me in his chair, and a strange look came over his face. His mouth opened as if to speak, but no words came out. Instead, he had stopped the world.
For a just a moment, I felt as if I were suspended in time, and although the sun was shining, it appeared that a dark veil had been drawn across the sky. But even though I did not hear a word, the answer came out of his mouth and fell upon me. And the answer was more than a "yes". The answer could not have been spoken with a word, because the answer was a revelation of the past, the present, and the future. When the moment had passed, we continued our conversation. I did not ask him if he saw the vision, nor did he acknowledge that he even noticed. There is no doubt in my mind that God took hold of this righteous man, and through him, spoke directly to me. And I cannot explain exactly what I felt,or witnessed, as there are no words in the English language to describe it. But it was terrible, and it was horrific, and it came with the smell of fear, and death, and it was a spiritual war that had consumed the Earth, and laid waste to mankind.`
God has revealed many things to me over the years. And because of this relationship I do not fear my mortality. I have already stood at the gate, and I know where I am going. I have received many blessings, but the greatest blessing I have received is the mercy of God, for I have surely walked a crooked path.
Apparently you have more neighbors than I. And I am glad that it is well with you. But it is better for me when I cannot see them. or hear them, or smell them.
I commented: "I feel the way we relate to animals is similar to the way that God, or higher entities relate and "speak" to us."
Here I can see the cause for confusion, but I was referring to higher entities "above the human", not the source. Obviously, I should have articulated my meaning more clearly.
The European has always taken a condescending, and paternalistic view of all other belief systems, and all else that is not European, especially concerning the African and the Indigenous. They would have us believe that the European, and the Jews, have a monopoly on God. But that is simply part and parcel of a racist system that has supplanted African and Indigenous culture with it's own. But God has not divided us by race or culture, but only by our abilities and our intentions, which is only logical and pragmatic. One of my abilities is to tell the truth; an ability which many Euro-Americans do not possess. And this is not necessarily because they purposely flee from the truth, but only because their arrogance will not allow them to receive it.
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
Interesting once again Wrench , though I hear strange echoes of David Koresh , Jimmy Jones ,what's that other one -perhaps even Jimmy Swaggert , write on though , continue to hold yourself above even God . That works for you I'm sure .
Many a man has held himself that far above the rest of humanity , in his mind .
Thank you for this interesting response. It is nice to get other points of view.
I would rather they just turn into Zombies, rather than permanent psychological wrecks addicted to virtual reality and drugs ...Good to know …
!
"Fear the Walking Dead is an American post-apocalyptic horror drama television series created by Robert Kirkman and Dave Erickson that premiered on AMC on August 23, 2015. It is a companion series and prequel to The Walking Dead, which is based on the comic book series of the same name by Robert Kirkman, Tony Moore, and Charlie Adlard. The first season, consisting of six episodes, aired in 2015. Its second season, of 15 episodes, premiered on April 10, 2016.
Set initially in Los Angeles, California, the series follows a dysfunctional family composed of high school guidance counselor Madison Clark, her English teacher boyfriend Travis Manawa, her daughter Alicia, her drug-addicted son Nick, and Travis' son from a previous marriage, Chris, at the onset of the zombie apocalypse. They must revamp themselves to survive, as they come to terms with the impending collapse of civilization.! On April 15, 2016, AMC announced the series had been renewed for a 16-episode third season to air in 2017."
FROM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_the_Walking_Dead
Oh boy! :-D Can't Wait! :-0
Actually, I am curious. It seems pretty interesting and timely at this point.
FYI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead
Down with Renaissance fairs!
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
I wish I knew the stories behind these , but what was that saying " A picture paints a thousand words " - ahorsebackposted 8 years ago0
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