Nope. A little afraid of a random person's opinion. Actually, not really.
Like one of those annoying little yapping dogs that is all noise and no substance.
Should be fun when GT shows up
In case you were wondering, no one is responding to your rant. You don't have any street cred. And your ramblings are racist and unwelcome.
I am not racist I am married to a great african -american woman.Great replies but none of you have addressed the problem with a solution or do you have blinders on???
It doesn't matter if you're married to a AA woman or not. You can still be a controlling bigot and pig headed racist. Maybe this is your secret way of controlling those you hate.
Bet ya married her cause you wanted a slave All the Yassa Massa stuff eh.
When you start a race war don't expect everyone to climb on your band wagon, and don't expect it to be cool...... I was disgusted with your racist attitude, I mean its stupid to rave on about this topic and not get someone like me say the same stuff to make you realise what you are saying
Wake up and sniff the Roses.
Makes more sense to get tax from these people than , have them work for fat rich cats that are going to keep on employing no matter what YOU say.
Your comments were inappropriate in and of themselves, regardless of whatever justification you try to sell yourself.
I have not displayed any kind of racist attitude, and expect an immediate apology from you for that accusation.
Now, if you can control yourself enough to actually have a discussion: I take it you support open borders?
You apologise for being racist and I will apologise for what? Being racist for the other side. Ridiculous.
Yes I do support open borders, in fact No Borders would be better.
And you don't see how that might involve some problems?
Its a racist position to close the mexican border when canadians can come and take a dump here whenever they want.
What about welcome centers, directing immigrants to areas of the country where jobs might be available?
We have processing stations in Auckland these are super high security and deal with Arabic Immigrants, they work speedily and well. maybe if you have to have borders these are an option. I just think people need to be able to improve their lifestyles, and lets face it Mexico is not where they feel that this is an option.
The practical issues with that idea aside, that would involve controlling immigration, would it not?
Nooo -- directing, as in pointing out; perhaps a better phrase would be "welcome centers informing immigrants where the most likelihood of employment might be available."
US Immigration should be controlled. Obviously. I am a liberal and I see that. The hows, whys, whats and human right elements are the issues at hand...and it is complex.
I was just reading that illegal immigration from Mexico is down--because our economy is sucking so badly, lol, the would-be job seekers are staying put. I think that says a lot!
Perhaps you are confusing me with the person who started this hub. That is your second false and deeply offensive accusation. Calm down and gather your thoughts, then show a shred of class and apologize.
You are being mean Goldentoad..... No I did make a bit of a muck up ha
and ps Can u give me your hairdressers phone number luv the new look.
she works here in Beverly Hills, you comin' to LA sometime soon? I'll set you up with an appointment.
When I pull myself off my Computer fix up my Green or Pink Card I will hold you to that. Cheers
buddy have a good day. I think I have made a big enough dork of m yself for one afternoon, especially since I am meant to be at work. Told of by Lissie told off by tsensei and had to grovel more than a girl can handle hah
You are so right Sorry pal I bang the keys every which way. hahah Here it is
tksensei I am so very sorry I have confused you with the aother party .
I am not a George Bush supporter so how can any remartk I make be Bush League. Honestly this guy writing this Hub is so rascist it isn't funny.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the term. It has nothing to do with George Bush, it refers to an amateurish attempt to denigrate another person. It's about time is doing a fine job of making himself look ridiculous, he doesn't need your help.
thnx Ron I didn't understand it Foreignor and all Yes he is making a total Jimmy of Himself, but I hoped that he might take in some of what I was saying, he is just Racist. I would have more respect if he just said Hi I'm racist this is my theory, rather than I am not racist I am married to,dahdah dah He doesn't even see how rascist that is.
More that I could not care less
Nothing racist there, of course
I am quite the legal citizen,if you please sir. Also I am American. Our country is land of the free and home of the brave. Many Mexicans do come here desperate to better their lives and support their families. Although I dont like the idea of them working and not paying taxes into our system that the rest of us have to do, You must keep in mind that it is a "greedy" American who is hireing these illegals to cut down his expense and gain profit,in most casses. If small businesses where not taxed to death as well as large corp. then the economic struggles we face would be alot less. I agree we should not pay with our tax dollars the medical expense of those who dont pay into the system but there are alot of americans who rob us just the same in that field. So if you want to single out any one race I dont see how you can justify such,from our government ,to the small business man trying to keep his business from going under, to the mexican who will clean your yard for 40 dollars vs. the young white man who must charge you 90 dollars to pay his employee and their taxes to keep his business alive. It is not the RACE that is the problem my friend, It is the entire SYSTEM and we are all a part of it. Thats why we get to vote. Vote for the core of the issues(less government,less taxes,ect. thats what creates the jobs and competions which drive down prices for the rest of us that live here) Fight to change laws on how our tax dollars are spent and what rights one should have befor they are a citizen. Just seems a better use of your time. As long as America is a nation and we continue to flip everyone elses bill (including those who are citizens here but get for free what they could go out and earn) then people will come. Some will contribute and some will take advantage of it..no different than those who live here and call theirselves American. Thats just my opinion but one I feel strong about. Welfare was intended for the elderly and childern who would be hungry without it. Not the mother who chooses to have a baby each year with no means to support it other than the struggeling tax payer who can hardly pay for his own to eat..just saying, its not only the Mexicans, their nature is no different and sometime way better than even our own citizens !
Wittywriter is giving you a standing ovation! <clapping really hard
MT is right. It is the SYSTEM that is in place that makes it so attractive for illegals to come here in the first place. Only 54% of eligible voters turned out for the last election and 99% of eligible voters complain that nothing ever gets fixed in this country... go figure!
We have our issues, but I'd argue the largest problem is with the countries (ie Mexico) themselves. Illegal immigration is practically a way of life and is sanctioned by their government. They even hand out pamphlets on how to get across the border. Seems like a joke, but no, I am not making that up.
It's not just sanctioned by the Mexican government but also by our own... True story: Many moons ago when I joined the Army and went to Basic Training at Ft. Bliss Texas, which is in El Paso, TX right on the border with Mexico, Our drill sargeants took my company on a bus ride to a nearby park. As we drove along the road next to the Rio Grande, I could see dozens upon dozens of Mexicans wading accross the river with their possessions on top their heads. The border guards were only 500 feet away and could see them just as clearly as I could but didn't move an inch. "We're soldiers, why can't we stop them?" I asked my sargeant. He replied, "that's not our job." It's not the job of a soldier to defend the border of his own country. So I definately think it is the SYSTEM that is broken.
Agreed. I didn't check your profile....didn't see you had some connection to TX. Blind eyes are turned here in AZ, too. It's just accepted that those who build most of the houses here (building one of our largest industries) will be illegals.
And I have no issues with them on any personal level. But I do find the 'system' exploitative for many of the parties involved. The wealthy families here just accept it--they are gardeners, the cleaning help, the construction workers.
The whole format seems wrong...but fixing it is another story.
Perhaps that's where most of the problems on earth start from.
Illegal immigration is an important issue and there is no place in a serious discussion of it for racist distractions.
Do American companies and individuals get into trouble for employing illegals?
In theory, yes. However the Federal Government has made it next to impossible to identify illegal aliens in some situations. It's illegal to ask an applicant "Are you here legally?". An applicant who presents fraudulent identification can slip through the legal cracks.
That's the biggest problem why we have so much illegal immigrants, the companies are hiring them without checking their identification, they are using someone else's social security number, they even have fake driver's license so they can drive here. Everyday, I see lots of illegals who are here in Las Vegas, they are all hanging out by Star Nurseries waiting for people to hire them as day laborers.
Unfortunately, "it's about time", espousing comments like the ones in your original post that represent an attitude of racism, do nothing to positively shed light on this pressing issue.
Illegal immigration is, in many ways, bad for America. There is no doubt about it. However, there are also supporters of illegal immigration because of the several benefits. (I'm not going to elaborate on the pros and cons of it here because it'd be a waste of my time...)
It is important to raise awareness about this issue (or any issues important to you) by sharing balanced information and exhibiting a respectful opinion.
Your post did not accomplish any of that.
I think Hubpages needs a "Ranting Room"
Yes its illegal to hire a person without documented papers LondonGirl and its alo illegal for anyone not to report anyone they know is not legal, though I strongly doubt how they would actually know this.
How come 'its about time' dont have a wee box thingy?
you better not be flying under the radar
Because dagnabbit, our ancestors stole this land fair and square from their ancestors to establish our sovereignty which is more important than their lives, plus we got laws and such which we break all the time but are sacred anyway, plus Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh say its a problem, plus it just ain't fair for them to take this land back, plus they use services and don't pay taxes plus most of them are bank robbers. Don't you dare disagree with me or I'll really go off on a rant.
(This is a compilation of answers to that question from a similar forum)
So laws (including and especially those pertaining to ensuring the sovereignty of our nation) are not important and need not be followed?
They are so important that they must be written in such a way that they do not contribute to human suffering. When they are unjust, it is our duty to disobey them until they are changed. This isn't my original opinion, I am following the examples of people I admire - Jesus, Martin Luther, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King Jr., Abbie Hoffman, Ronald Reagan, and Art Fenski. I reject the examples set by Nietzche, Adolph Hitler, Fidel Castro, Dick Cheney, sheriff Joe Arpaio, and all televangelists.
Ok, without delving into Buddhist theology, how are the current laws contributing to human suffering and what laws do you want that would not do so?
Tough to do without channeling the Big B
Short answer: Increase in hate crimes, death in the desert, divided families, economic injustice.
Long answer: wait for my hub.
Here are my thoughts first the banks gave the loans to everyone who could breathe, the party who is writing it may have been racist themselves. Look for the facts, it isn't just hispanics in California it is white, black, asian etc. nobody is unscathed. Gang problems have always been serious in Southern California Asian gangs are the number one problem, not the hispanic gangs.
I believe that they should immigrate correctly however if you have ever traveled to Mexico and I am certain that you have, you will find the living conditions to be horendous.
You do (sound rascist) as you are placing all Hispanics into one big pot and there are good and bad in all races.
As for the jobs write your congressman it is the businesses who are paying lower wages.
As for them taking all of the jobs, when is the last time you had seen a white person on the west coast picking cotton? Cutting down trees? Placing rock? If you are willing to go out there and bust your bottom then you may comment on the jobs, however I believe that you wouldn't crawl into a palm tree.
You say your wife is black? Then the verbage that you are using should simply be written in good taste and I am American.
Patience is a virtue...oops sorry that sounds a little buddhist. You have described this topic as one deserving of serious discussion and I whole heartedly agree. Your question, (a very good one) will be answered thoroughly in my hub.
Stop picking on the Kiwi, all we ( flightless birds) will all get on a Air New Zealand flight and come over and deal to you. So there!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She said read three posts up.
So read three posts up
Yeah I agree with EagleKiwi and not just because I am also a Kiwi, although not an EagleKiwi, thats because I have no American affiliations, Now where are you going to send them, are you planning on making a giant freakin Big Pinata, shaped like a sombrero ladling them all side and shipping the whole thing on container to where, Tibet. They have been there for longer than the American Race, and really, they had no bloody stupid rules that said they could not cross the Rio Grande in the old days, so they would be forgiven for thinking generations on that they could no longer cross the Rio Grande, today to find work, as for the swine flue most of the races such as Mexicans, etc., don't get me started were healthy until the European settlers started giving them all manner of diseases including venereal ones.
They live a diffent live than Europeans sure, but why not enjoy there Culture it is Colouful enough, In fact it is so colourful it makes me feel like I have overdosed just looking at to Mexican Shawls in my favorite Mexican Eatery...................
Careful they might decide they want you guys out... Or maybe they are already planning the Mejican Revenge with an alarming new Swine Flu.
Seriously why doesn't everyone just get on with their B.... knitting, and let people do there oown thing.
Where would we be without Mexicans.
No refried beans
On the down side no slightly unhealthy water, and no swine flu (deaths have only to date been Mexican people)
No altitude sickness.
Most of all no cactus chairs and NO PINATAS
Pondscum comes in all colors... Leave the mejicans alone.
Leave them alone? We are talking about illegal immigration. The issue need have nothing exclusively to do with people from Mexico. What other laws do you want to leave alone?
It is interesting and I have thought of heaps more fav Mexican things.
Like the concoction that has saved some cancer patients.
Cactus and Cacti....................
Tequila Sunrise and Tequila Sunset, that's when u drink it all day and night. lol.
I read that roughly 57% of the estimated 12 million illegals are Mexican. The rest come from all other places in the world. The USA has a population of roughly 304 million people. It is hard to believe that our financial resources are being drained by only 4% of the population. More likely, our financial resources are being squandered by the incessant welfare needs of our legal citizenry, the plundering of our banks by greedy corporations, and wasteful spending by our very own elected government.
Illegal immigration is wrong because it breaks our laws and it's hard for U.S. Americans to put full support behind a group that have no regard for our laws. It's understandable that these illegal immigrants want to come to the US to better their lives, and there is no doubt that Mexicans and Canadians are also Americans. We are all in North America. But there is a reason we have borders... And then again, we just got rid of an administration that for the last 8 years showed no regard for the sovereignty of other nations borders.
Desparate, oppressed and impoverished people will always do everything and anything to better their lives. Doesn't matter what country they come from.
Not too far back in America's distinguished past, it was that same desparate white man coming over the hill to take whatever there was without permission, while the blackfoot, the cree, sioux, ojibwa, huron nations watched in apprehension and fear.
Other people from all over the world followed, whether forced or freed.
All together, fair or foul, they made America. "It's time" should maybe look at his ancestors and own family and start packing to go back to wherever they came from.
I disagree with you quite vehemently,and yet: shock, horror! I have a green card. That makes me a legal resident of these, your exclusive, shores. Hmmmm -- I think someone needs a hug and a bedtime story.
Then you know what an ordeal following the rules, respecting the laws of the country, and going through the (legal) immigration process is.
My work is specialist in a field although it is not a field I am currently working in therefore I could get a Green card, I am a New Zealander, Why should I get preference over people like Mexicans, and North American Indians.?
(It's actually white. They used to be pink. What's with that?)
no say it isnt so , after all this time ( and muttering) I was beginning to look forward to a 'green' card. Maybe I can dye it match my handbag lol
I think it's because by the time you fill out the mountains of paperwork, stand in endless lines to deal with people who make DMV workers seem like sweethearts, and pay through the nose, you feel nauseous.
IF you have skills that are needed in a particular field you MIGHT be able to get a temporary work visa. If you enter the country illegally you will not, and should not, get that or any other visa.
I hope to start a more rational discussion of the issue. I just published the first of a series of hubs looking for solutions rather than "gotcha".
TK and I have had many disagreements regarding this issue, but he is clearly not a racist. I enjoy debating him because his views, usually opposite of mine, are well articulated and reasonable.
goodness, people cast thingie me bobs on people's characters here!
Open door policy would increase tax revenue
then put the focus of illegal activities on Employers
Save money on wages being paid to border officials ,throughout the whole USA not just the border ,every field office ,major processing centres ,hundreds and hundreds of people employed to 'monitor the situation' huge waste of tax payers money right there.
Have you considered that your brilliant plan would destroy our economy and be an unmitigated disaster for the most vulnerable in both the US and Mexico (among other unfortunate consequences)?
Oh right, and the economys great now is it?
Well, as a Canadian who has not been impacted by illegal immigration in his small town, this dialogue is very interesting.
In Canada, we would not survive as a country if it were not for the immigrants we gain every year. Yes, we do have a process and policies, and we rarely are the target for unregistered immigrants, though refugees have landed here from time to time.
I really wonder some times. I know that the youth where I grew up would not be willing to do some of the jobs that immigrants willingly take on. I do wonder what would entice the youth of any country to take on jobs they see as 'below them'. All jobs are important, and need responsible people to take them on.
I'm not a fan of the 'get rid of them' mentality being portrayed, here or elsewhere. But I guess its all about what people believe. I am not a policy maker and would not prophess to know what the solution is. Awarenss and acceptance possibly.
Judgement on others based on things we would not do really says little about the ones being judged, and more about the person making the judgement.
To understand a little about how Mexicans or Cubans gain entrance into the US, I wouldn't believe that they are coming into the lap of luxury, and I know people will argue about the state of the country the immigrants are coming from, but seriously, I do not believe they are coming into a situation that is easier or more welcomed. Humans do many things when desperate, even if it is to leave your family behind, to begin a new life in a country where most people speak a different language, to find a place to live, a job that will pay for the things I need and an inability to communicate with those I love. Can any one really say they'd chose that as a way of life??
Simple, if those jobs paid better, which they would if the labor market on that end were not distorted by the presence of thousands and thousands willing to work not only below a minimum wage but outside the legitimate market entirely. Citizens and legitimate residents on the lower end of the economic spectrum - those most vulnerable - are the ones who are pushed out of the equation when illegal workers are introduced into a system. So what happens to them? On to welfare, and guess who pays for that? Guess who doesn't? Guess what that does to the economy? Guess what that does to the illegal workers? There are multiple consequences to having illegal workers that some people never think about because they can't get past 'let's be nice!' Sometimes nice isn't so nice.
Exactly Enigmatic who the hell in their right mind would choose to be where they are not wanted! ( if it were not for survival)
Most every Western country has their share of Illegal Immigrants,but in the US because of her Borders and in particular Mexico that is where the focus should be NOT on the ones who are already here. That is like trying to stop an ocean with a small cork! Impossible and where $$$ thousands is lost.
Great post ,enjoyed your common sense attitude.
Welcome to Hubpages too!
Do you know what our Homeland Security thinks of Canada? Here it is, straight from our Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.
Canada more lax than U.S. about whom it lets in
A suggestion by the U.S. Homeland Security Secretary that terrorists have routinely entered the United States through Canada — including the perpetrators of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks
"Yes, Canada is not Mexico. It doesn't have a drug war going on; it didn't have 6,000 homicides that were drug-related last year," Napolitano said.
"Nonetheless, to the extent that terrorists have come into our country or suspected or known terrorists have entered our country across a border, it's been across the Canadian border. There are real issues there."
When Macdonald asked if she was referring to the 9/11 perpetrators, Napolitano answered: "Not just those but others as well."
Ok Ive got it
Ive finally got it
Mexico is the U.S.A's scapegoat.
Dont worry we all have them. lol
Scaptegoat? Ok, how have we unfairly used them as a scapegoat,and for what?
Or did you just want to use the word "scapegoat" and hope the charge was so powerful you could just leave it at that?
No not at all!
I see no sense in being long-winded, if I dont have an audience,however now I do,( you) and Im quite happy to expand on my powerful comment.
First of all the post is titled
" It Is Time To send them back!!!!!!"
Why is it time now? what has happened now ,that wasnt already happening 5,10,20 yrs ago?
Were they responsible for the econimic downturn ,were they involved in real estate , were they running the banks ,were they in Congress?
No they were not responsible for any of that greed.
And the reason I mention Congress is they make the policies, and I assume they have a very good idea of how their policies will work ,so to accidently discover whoops we have a problem now is a red herring,but one many of the public will gladly swallow and happily make
>> Mexicans their object of hostility<<, therefore a convenient 'Scapegoat'
President Obama has said that his objective now ,is too make illegal immigrants 'legal document holders' sensible idea dont you think? , registered and paying taxes!! today ,now!!
To send everyone back is not cost effective.
Think of the manpower ( wages) required to track and trace 'them' remember we ,our taxes are paying for every department , every office worker ,every policeman, every officer involved with Immigratation right down to the cleaners.
Then when those officials above have found 'some' of 'those' people 'you want to send back' who pays for their travel back?
You do , I do , our taxes do!
Logically its wiser to record ,register,and know who is here and to quit playing the blame game .
Leaving aside the fact that the number of illegal aliens has been increasing over time, isn't "now" the time to solve any problem? If I said now was the time to stop wasteful government spending would you ask "why now?"
Who said they were?
Who said they were?
Who said they were?
Who said they were?
You do understand what 'scapegoat' means, right?
LOL! You don't know our Congress very well!
Who told you this was a problem we had just "accidentally discovered" now?
That would depend on which illegal immigrants and how we would go about doing it. I would think even you would agree with that.
One thing Id like to challenge you on ,is in on your original post you quoted over 80% are illegal?
How do you know this information?
One , if you dont know ,how would anyone else know ( for sure?)
Two, if you know and have facts then you are being just as unlawful as the people you presume to know about.
I dont understand by what you mean above "would depend on which illegal immigrants"?....
and how would we go about that ,well voting for a progressive President is a positive step in the right direction.
The thing to remember is these are people , not a shipment of banana's or cargo of canned peaches but human beings!
therefore whatever Government does should be humane ,fair and just.
Geeze your making me work hard today!
depend on what? illegal is illegal,right? so why would it depend on whom
now which part dont you get?
So you would grant amnesty to illegal aliens who are wanted for crimes either here or in their home countries? Illegal aliens who are members of gangs? Illegal aliens who are drug addicts? Suspected terrorists, drug runners, those openly hostile to the US?
I guess none of that matters as long as YOU 'feel' good.
The fact that I was talking about the practical implementation of any such plan and you responded with a puppies and rainbows answer says a lot about your attitude toward this, and I imagine other, political issues.
That's some mighty fine emoting, but I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that we are talking about human beings.
Thankyou for the compliment.
It was difficult to know you were refering to humans ,perhaps you need to read some of your posts out aloud to yourself sometime.
Balance that cost against the cost to our economy, security, education, health care, and culture as things stand now and see how it matches up. In any case, I don't think you'd have to actually remove any more than 1/5 of those here illegally now to convince most of the others to leave. Regardless of all that, the first step is to secure our borders (yes, now) and stem the flood before pumping out the basement.
Since you accused me of side-stepping ( which I havent) I note that still havent answered my questions to you on your 80% figure of illegals in CA and how you came to that figure.
Where are your facts? and you have the gaul to ask me what Im going to do about it?
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
The inscription on the Statue of Liberty...
This is the what makes the USA great. If you feel you don't have the resources you once had because there are more immigrants living near you, then move and keep moving until you feel like you are safe from the growth. But it will only be a false feeling because the USA will continue to grow and continue to take in anyone that seeks to better their position in life.
There are a few bad seeds in every apple but you still eat the apple right!
Ok, so you too advocate open borders? And you don't think that would have any negative consequences for the country?
I advocate that the USA is a melting pot for all nationalities. This is what I love about this country. I live in Chicago, Il and I see the wonders and the tragedies of every culture. There are no negative consequences only realities. And once ignorrant people start accepting these realities we can, as a country, repair or accomodate the things society as a majority thinks needs repair.
Who are you calling ignorant? You are very harsh. We can disagree on things, but I won't call you ignorant just because I disagree with what you said.
That is fantastic, but could you answer my question?
Our borders are open, for the most part. With the thousands of miles on both borders it is impossibe to guard. If you have suggestions on securing our borders, please let me hear them.
I didn't call anyone specific ignorant. I used it as a generl term for anyone who doesn't take the time to learn the real issues and want to point fingers without coming up with solutions. I live in Chicago and you call that fairyland? So tell me what is a bigger fairyland than "Sin City?" You need to open your eyes and if your mind can grasp reason then tell me how 4% of the population (estimated illegal immigrants here) can drain the financial resources of this great nation. The problem is not with the illegal immigrants it is with the system that allows for wasteful spending, that caters to the ultra rich corporations, and that points out problems and never offers solutions.
Of anything ever! negative consequences are a matter of perspective. What is negative for one group could be positive for another group so all we are left with is reality. Of course what is real and what is not real depends on if you are a nihilist or not.
Thank you tksensei. Good luck to you too, hopefuly you will start to offer a little more substane instead of attacking other peoples opinions. You want answers then start answering some first. Here's an idea, write a hub explaining what America means to you. Take your time and get your thoughts together on it. Make it something your bilingual/multicultural baby boy can be proud of.
I don't need advice from fantasyland. Direct your comments elsewhere.
I can't say that I understand that exchange, but I do look forward to your next hub TK. If you write a good one, I'll even forgive you for being a Patriots fan.
P.S. Go Colts!
I believe your reality is living in fairyland?
Come on people wake up,it is time to stop these leaches from taking anymore of our land and jobs and everything else
A better question to ask might be is
Who is hiring them and why?
How do they take land?
I hate crime in all its forms ,I abhor it!
but they damn well cant sell it to the toothfairy ,someone is buying it , someone is distributing it and someone is getting rich ,very very rich.
There is nothing to suggest thats it those 80% you quoted earlier either.
Perhaps its important to keep your hostility in perspective and look at the whole picture.
Do you understand what Illegal means yet?
You seemed unclear further back.
My son when he was 4 yrs old was always asking why?
I counted 42 whys one day ( all in an hour)
I praised his curiousity and tenacious appetite to learn.
You are not 4 yrs old and I am not your mother.
But if I were, Id suggest you write all your thoughts down in a Hub...
I understand what you may be feeling, but, errr, there's no need to be so racist. A little tolerance perhaps? Or maybe you should talk to a few and find out the reasons for them leaving their country? The problems they faced there which made them leave?
And before you attack my nationality just like you did with some other people here, let me clarify I'm Canadian and have little to do with your city or area of residence = )
To you, TK, I believe. But >she's< kinda doing the same thing you do, .
I think we actually agree (you and I) on this issue, although we probably come from two different philosophies... It would be cool if you actually started to write paragraphs instead of questioning everybody (isn't that an old teacher's trick?). It's assumed in argumentation that everybody is on the same level--that's the crux of civil debate, I think?
Don't be 'sleazy,' or you'll have to break glass and provide pictures of your baby boy!
I admire you Lita for understanding TK because I dont , to me , he/she talks in circles and Im not one for head games.
I think he's OK enough--just can't seem to break the habit of, ahem, talking down to people, no matter who it is, it seems. It's a teacher's trick--asking questions like that. As if any of us assume he actually has all the answers and has the right to do that. This isn't *for credit* school work. We're supposed to be in a forum having discussions.
Sensei means teacher in Chinese , am I correct?
Yea that would be cool ,but I thought discussion was a two way street?
My father was a teacher but at least he offered his own opinion along the way or made statements or corrected, he knew we would lose interest if it the discussion was 'being talked at" as opposed to "talking with".
But to each their own I guess.
Japanese. In Chinese it would be "laoshi."
I don't know where all this "talking down" business is coming from. Asking questions is not talking down. The refusal to answer questions is what stifles discussion.
Yeah, but! I disagree with the 'question' bit. Doesn't asking questions round and round automatically assume that one is on the offensive, leaving the other to the defensive position? It's like posing an essay question--especially as phrased here, and then having the respondent write out all they know, only to pick at (again) assumed weaknesses.
I'm thinking Socrates was trying to do something with his method? (ooh, that's a question--maybe a rhetorical one, but? Shall you answer or refuse?). To me it's about refutation.
What's really funny I've noticed is that some STUDENTS (and we have a few), can't seem to get out of the mode of discussion partner having to ask them, 'OK, and what do you think?' Equally kinda funny.
Not at all. How do you develop a full understanding of someone's position if questions are considered an act of aggression to be avoided or defended against? There is no "round and round" if the questions are simply taken at face value and answered. The answers can help to clarify positions and maybe even uncover common ground. Avoidance and suspicion moves the discussion nowhere.
Well, I dunno... I've just found in the business/creative world, the communication style is more, "I think this..blah, blah." "Yeah, well, I agree with that, but blah, blah, blah. But maybe if this blah?" If you know what I'm saying? If you just asked questions, it wouldn't be the exchange that was expected.
Ah, well, it's OK.
Looking at communication styles on this forum has started me researching argumentation fallacies--non sequiturs--which is really interesting. Might write a hub about it.
So! See! Maybe some 'spiritualist' like me might be up for a little independent study after all, , even if it isn't in religion. lol (That was a joke!)
Curious--do you know who Jun Kaneko is? (My Japanese connection.)
Artist--internationally known. I lived in his studio/building (it's a huge 2 million dollar loft building in downtown Omaha--he moved there because living/business is inexpensive). My boyfriend at the time was doing an assistant-ship...and oh, can those Japanese masters in ceramics work a person, TKsan. Neither here nor there, but interesting...
As a keen student of debating styles, I look forward to reading that one
Yeah, thought it sounded familiar, but I'm not too big into the ceramics scene.
Didn't suppose so. I'm figurin' you for an ESL teacher...or business/type-something, maybe/too?
I've done my fair share of ESL, but I generally do other (though related) tutoring these days. And yes, some business-related stuff.
Cool, Mandy...what kind of stuff do you do? Do you have hubs of your work?
I'm both an artist and writer...which is kind of a lot to be, I'm sure you know what I'm saying, so that's why I'm more of a writer at the moment.. Am educated as a painter, tho--
When an economy is flooded with cheap labor, wages fall and the job market shrinks.
This is beneficial to business that use non-skilled labor.
But it hurts the general population.
A democracy would lead you to believe that contacting your representative would bring change BUT our political arena does not follow.
Politicians are owned by monetary supporters...aka businesses.
Some businesses are getting tax breaks for outsourcing labor. Why would we want to do that?...politics
Remember campaign contributions do not go unpaid.
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