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What did you think of President Trump's speech last night?

  1. jackclee lm profile image71
    jackclee lmposted 6 months ago

    Politics aside, just curious what's your reaction to his speech? Positive, negative or indifferent...

    1. promisem profile image94
      promisemposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      He at least behaved himself. That being said, I'll be curious to see how he can:

      1. Vastly expand the military budget.
      2. Spend $1 trillion on infrastructure.
      3. Cut taxes.
      4. Reduce the federal debt.

      All at the same time.

      1. jackclee lm profile image71
        jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I agree with you there. There are lots of promises but hard to realize.
        It is true of all politicians and their state of the union speeches, both parties does it.
        However, I do think one way he can accomplish some of this is by growing th economy.
        If he can increase the gdp from 2% to 3 or 4%, it will go a long way to help...
        We will have to wait and see a while. Give it 2 years before actual results will show up.

      2. Credence2 profile image87
        Credence2posted 6 months ago in reply to this

        He is just a standard GOP apparatchic, increase military spending, while cutting taxes with all the infrastructure investment. Where does all the money come from, don't tell me we are going back to the disproven premise of 'trickle down'?

        So much for populist maverick idea....

        1. jackclee lm profile image71
          jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          credence2, I disagree. He is not your typical GOP. He is a businessman and not a politician. His straight talk is refreshing. I might not agree with all his policies but I support most of them. Finding the money to do them is always a problem given our huge debt.
          I am keeping my mind open and giving him a chance to "change" America for the better.
          More than what President Obama did in his 8 years.

          1. profile image59
            jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            i agree with you - seems a lot of people want to see everything happen overnight. it takes time.  he seems to be making more of an effort to keep his promises than most in the past.  the problem is, because of the way the law works, it will take time before we get past some of the spending already in place from the obama years.  those plans were already in place and he can't simply change them immediately.  it doesn't work that way.

            so we will have to give it time. he inherited a ton of spending allotments and rules that he can't change and we will have to just live through.  hopefully he won't throw out the good with the bad.  there were some good things that came with the bad from obamacare and other things done during the past administration.  hopefully he will understand the difference.

            unfortunately, it doesn't look that way right now.  hope it changes.

      3. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        2) What did "financed through both public and private capital" mean?  Are we going to build a thousand miles of privately owned toll roads?  Sell bonds to cover some of the cost?

        1. crankalicious profile image86
          crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          That's exactly what that means. Where I live, they financed infrastructure improvement by partnering with a private company. As a result, that company has an exclusive 50-year lease on the toll road. They can do whatever they want. They just changed the HOV requirement from 2 to 3 people per car so they could charge more. Though I'm not generally in favor of turning over public roads to private company ownership, I've got to say the thing got built lots faster. Lots of people are pissed though because of how it's being managed.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Personally I HATE toll roads, having never lived where there were an appreciable number of them.  Much rather pay taxes to build free roads.

            1. Misfit Chick profile image93
              Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Fine, ignore what I wrote and lets talk about something else...

              They build toll roads in high-congestion areas - like Seattle - to cut down on commuting. They just started using tolls here recently for that reason and it has helped a LOT. People are far more encouraged to ride together or use public transport.

              It doesn't solve the problem but it cuts down on things quite a bit. Then you've got kajillionaires building tunnels under places like LA so they don't have to deal with traffic, LoL!

              Me? I'm an avid bus rider. Haven't had a car since a couple years after moving downtown. It was a pain in the butt to go even a few blocks, paying for parking was expensive, and since I didn't hardly use it - paying upkeep & insurance seemed wasteful. Dang I miss my car, now! smile
              https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13428957.jpg

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                I would ride buses...but there aren't any where I live.  The nearest one is several miles and it has a very limited route and goes by (I think) just twice a day.  We all have preferred living areas and mine is NOT in the city! big_smile

            2. crankalicious profile image86
              crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Interestingly, it's not entirely a toll road. Two lanes are non-toll. The express lane - the third lane, is a toll lane. So they gave the private company control of the toll lane in exchange for rebuilding the road. It's definitely an interesting arrangement that benefits both parties.

      4. Ivan Tod profile image61
        Ivan Todposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        First and foremost he'll have to return monetary control and policy making to the U.S. treasury. Then he has to cut out special interest spending added to the budget by congressional reps that have been bought and sold by lobbyists and the like. That will help reduce federal debt and ease the current requisite taxation. As it is, most of the current federal tax intake is handed over to the non-governmental Federal Reserve Bank in the form of interest payments on the massive debt owed to it by the U.S. government. I would be very careful in returning monetary policy and control to the treasury though as we all know what happened to President Kennedy when he tried to do the same thing.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image82
      Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      Very good, as many others have said, the best speech we have heard from Trump to date.  And the best speech to Congress I have seen since Reagan.

      It hit on many many topics, on many points... almost all of which he has mentioned in the past.  Which is worth noting, he hasn't changed his position much (if any)  from the campaign... which is not what we can say about the previous two Presidents, who pivoted on or left out all together issues they keyed in on when running for POTUS.

      Other noteworthy things, when Obama did his Address to Congress ALL stood up for him and clapped, not so for Trump, the Dems made a deliberate point to insult and be uninviting... also Trump was IMO better spoken and had a better overall message than Obama had in his, which honestly was a surprise.

      The problem is not Trump, it becomes clearer and clearer to all, that the problem is this lunatic fringe we have in our Congress and a handful of overly corrupt RINOs who are aiding them in obstructing the people who have been voted into office the past 6 years from getting the things done the majority of Americans (not the corporations or extremists on the left) want to see accomplished.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        "the Dems made a deliberate point to insult and be uninviting"

        Rather sad to see half the room composed of children, pouting in their seats to the point that even good points we should ALL agree with were not deserving of recognition.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image82
          Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          The one nice thing, you could tell it was considerably less than half the room... yes they stood out, but in doing so, they made it clear they were not in the majority.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            True.  Political posturing was more important than being a part of the governing group of the United States and some stayed home.

        2. Jean Bakula profile image93
          Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I thought it was his best speech, he's learning to read the teleprompter and getting used to how things work. As far as the promises, I can't be sure at this early point, all Presidents promise a lot and are not always able to deliver. I would like to see a good infrastructure bill. And I believe Obama was planning to ask for a similar dollar amount for the military, it's mostly to replace a submarine and other outdated equipment I don't really understand.

          I was sad the D's just sat there for the most part, but remember, the R's obstructed Obama for 8 years, and did the same, even calling Obama a "liar" on the Capitol floor during his speech. And all the R's loved it! They crowed about it for days.

          I thought they would knock it off after he won the second term. It would be nice if everyone would just grow up, they all are guilty and all work for us. I think they all forget that.

      2. crankalicious profile image86
        crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Ken,

        Here is a picture of Obama's address in 2009 to the joint session of Congress. Notice half the room standing and the other sitting.



        https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13428955_f248.jpg

        1. Ken Burgess profile image82
          Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Sorry Cranky, they have this thing called YouTube, you can go watch the real deal... they all stood and gave Obama a rousing applause when he entered the chamber, and when he opened his speech.

          Any sitting done was well into his speech, I wasn't willing to sit through all of it, I found listening to that rhetoric (now that we know what the results truly were) to be a bit much.

          How the Dems acted to Trump, was far worse (immature and idiotic) and far more divisive.  I think it was a mistake on their part, he raised his level of play, and they went in to the gutter... he was the adult, and they lowered themselves to make their point.

          1. crankalicious profile image86
            crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            That's some twisted logic. The Democrats went into the gutter? Gaslighting at it's finest.

          2. promisem profile image94
            promisemposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            All Republicans are good, all Democrats are evil ...

    3. Misfit Chick profile image93
      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      It was a semi-improvement on his so-far immature, volatile disposition; but it could have been much better... The country really kind of needed it to be better. He NEEDS a decent people person next to him helping him write these speeches (or actually writing them), not the tactless power-hungry dorks he has surrounding him.

      Then again, his tactlessness is one of the things that impresses his fans, LoL! Trump simply needs to become more 'presidential' - as in, attempting to be the prez for ALL Americans, not just his few loud fans.

      This was another chance to connect with people who don't even SORT of want to 'get' him. And while he didn't throw much more salt on open wounds (like he usually does) - he didn't exactly dress the country's wounds, either. (Btw, I totally agree that Dems who acted like *sses or didn't show up are being irresponsible. So what if you don't like your boss? Do your damn job!)

      By the end, I was a little disappointed that Trump seemed to rely on an age-old political tactic: stay on the fence by saying good-sounding things that people like to hear; but give no implication on how such seemingly impossible things can be reconciled with the great divide that exists down the middle of our country.

      He's starting to turn into more than just a brilliantly-manipulative businessman - he's turning into a politician. Neat.

      And frankly, the little bits & pieces that are coming through (such as massive cuts to the state department & new childcare plan for the rich) don't sound very encouraging. I'm not giving up hope, but I really wish I was seeing something different than what I - and so many others - expected to see from him.

      I am completely at a loss for how anyone sees anything good either about him as a person or anything he is doing or has done that is good for us. (sorry for the run-on sentence, ha!) Then again, I'm not constantly watching or looking - I'm trying to ignore, cuz so far, everything about him has been a disappointment from my perspective. I can't see one damn good thing aside from that he managed to unite the rest of the country against him. That would not have been my first choice for what happens next for us as a country.

    4. crankalicious profile image86
      crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

      It was the best I've heard him sound ever. People though, in general, are overreacting to the speech given the low bar he set. Still, there were a lot of good points made. It just doesn't match the reality of his actions.

      1. The "drain the swamp" comment drew laughter. I laughed as well. I'm just realizing now that when he says "drain the swamp" he just means that he's not filling it with career politicians. The corruption part doesn't really matter.
      2. The use of the serviceman's widow as a prop was revolting, particularly considering there's ample evidence that Trump ordered the raid without proper information. That said, all politicians use their props, so par for the course.
      3. Slightly off-topic, but if Betsy DeVos is draining the swamp, I think I'd prefer it filled back up (almost). She might be the stupidest cabinet appointment of all-time. The thing she said about all-black schools being a good example of choice ranks up there with the dumbest things ever said by somebody in government, and that's saying a lot.
      4. The comment about 94 million people being out of work is idiocy. It's certainly probably correct if you include retirees and others not in the work force, which is where I believe that figure comes from, which makes it alarmist and entirely misleading. Yet, certainly not the first time a politician has exaggerated.

      1. jackclee lm profile image71
        jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I am sorry but I take exception with you on point 3 and 4.
        What has the Democrats and the teachers union done for inner city schools?
        When someone from outside like Devos wants to change it for the better, why is that "dumb"?
        On point 4, the unemployment is accurate if you use the U6 number instead of the U3 number.
        The U6 is more accurate because it counts people who are out of work for over 6 months and who are underemployed... the 95 million number is accurate.

        1. crankalicious profile image86
          crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          You must be joking about DeVos. She said that all-black colleges were a great example of school choice working. That is pure stupidity. It is so unbelievably stupid it's almost impossible to fathom. It shows an ignorance of American History that should disqualify a person from living in this country. If you don't know why what she said is stupid, then I feel sorry for you.

          1. jackclee lm profile image71
            jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for the many millions of kids that are forced to attend public failed schools. What Devos and conservatives like me want is a better system which includes charter schools and vouchers that will allow some of these kids to attend a better school.
            Why would you oppose that?
            On what ground?

            1. crankalicious profile image86
              crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              I didn't say that I oppose it or not. I said that DeVos, based on the statement she made about all-black colleges being a good example of school choice success, is a certified moron or so completely ignorant that she's unqualified for any job requiring intelligence.

            2. Misfit Chick profile image93
              Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Really? You don't 'get' why Devos' comment was so wrong? That is another characteristic I've noticed about T-fans: they only see one side of things. I mean, do you REALLY think that NOBODY else BUT conservatives want decent schools JUST because we have different ideas about how to go about it?

              It really is maddening the way you have other people's ideas & ideals 'blocked out' in your head. Read some commentaries from people who are opposed to her if you don't understand our issues with her. Its not just this one comment.

              1. crankalicious profile image86
                crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                It wasn't just wrong. It was uneducated. How can an uneducated person be running the Department of Education?

                1. jackclee lm profile image71
                  jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Do you know what does the department of education do?
                  Very little...
                  The problem with our education system is at the local level. Only local solutions can help.
                  If anything, common CORE has been a sore point even with many teachers.
                  I have spoken to some of them. They don't like it and yet they are forced to teach it.

                  1. crankalicious profile image86
                    crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Please educate me on what the Dept. of Education does.

                    None of your responses address the idiocy of Betsy DeVos's statement. Was it stupid or not?

                  2. Misfit Chick profile image93
                    Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Like I said, no one is saying that there does not need to be improvements - we're talking about the PERSON running this department & 'what's wrong' with what she said.

        2. crankalicious profile image86
          crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          The unemployment number is very misleading. There are 318.9 million people in the U.S. You are saying that approximately 1 in 3 people are out of work.

          When Obama took office and during his first year, that U6 number was 16%+. When he left office, it was 9.2%.

          1. jackclee lm profile image71
            jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Yes, no doubt Obama has improved the unemployment rate since the worst of the recession. However, how do you compute the unemployment rate is the debate...
            When the labor participation rate drops to all new low, It is not figured in the unemployment rate.
            Do you understand this concept? The unemployment rate now is below 5%. That sounds great until you realize that a person who lost work for 26 weeks, are no longer counted as unemployed. That is why there are so many unemployed and underemployed. The 93 million includes people who are willing and able to work but cannot find work.

            1. crankalicious profile image86
              crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              I used the U6 numbers. You are comparing apples and oranges all of a sudden. First you were talking about the U6 number, so I gave you that and pointed out a fact of the U6 number. Now you are back to using the U3 number. These unemployment rate numbers are consistent over time and can be looked up. For instance, the U6 number was better at the beginning of George Bush's first term, but then steadily increased. At no time under Obama did the U6 number get back to that level.

              1. jackclee lm profile image71
                jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                What you are missing is the labor participation rate.
                Here is a chart that may help you.
                https://www.google.com/search?q=labor+p … lw1JmGc8M:

                1. crankalicious profile image86
                  crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Here's an article to help you understand the aging population gain relative to the overall population and the eligible work force.

                  https://qz.com/286213/the-chart-obama-h … behind-it/

            2. promisem profile image94
              promisemposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              The labor participation rate is declining because Baby Boomers are retiring. Please look it up.

            3. Ken Burgess profile image82
              Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              He is saying that approximately 1/3rd of the people are out of work... really 1/2 of the workforce is out of work, either unemployed or employed part-time only.

              That is a verifiable fact... for anyone concerned enough to know.

        3. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Concerning 2): are you seriously trying to say that Trump is a military expert, skilled in tactics, and should base all approvals on his personal detailed analysis of the proposed attack?

          Because if not, he had all the information needed: the approval of those that ARE skilled in such things.

          1. crankalicious profile image86
            crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            If Hillary Clinton had called for that raid, we'd be knee-deep in investigations for the next four years. The raid was clearly botched. No actionable intelligence was gathered. I suppose it's reasonable to say that none of us really know what procedures were followed that lead to Trump approving the action.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              "The raid was clearly botched."

              What can you point to that shows it was "botched"?  That a soldier died?  That happens, you know, in every war no matter how hard we try to prevent it.

              1. crankalicious profile image86
                crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                What’s more, U.S. military officials have told Reuters that Trump approved the raid – the first operation he approved as president – “without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.” He green-lit the mission over dinner at the White House residence, and while the raid was underway, Trump did not go to the Situation Room and did not monitor the developments in real time.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Yep - just as they told Reuters that there was zero intelligence gathered.  Sounds like the military needs to fire both those with big mouths (how stupid is it to tell the enemy you gathered no intelligence?) and those that plan missions and lie to the President.  Can we agree on this?

                  That's terrible!  That Trump did not sit in the Situation Room and stare at a blank TV screen the whole time the operation was in progress - he is necessary to provide guidance on how to proceed each instant, who to shoot, even where to put soldier's feet!  We need to supply the SS with chains for such an event - the President must be in that room any time any military personnel anywhere in the world is out of bed!

                  (I trust you detect the sarcasm.  Personally I prefer a President that sticks to the politics of an action and keeps his/her hands OFF the actual planning or operation.)

                  1. jackclee lm profile image71
                    jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Agree +++

                    1. crankalicious profile image86
                      crankaliciousposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      So when Hillary Clinton messes up and people die, she should be in jail. But when Trump does it, it's okay?

      2. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        I'm just reading more stuff about this speech, and I'm glad it wasn't just me... This is a really good cut & pasted review that puts things in perspective: we're starting to 'get used' to Trump's dysfunctional personality; and he's starting to become accepted. We were all just so GLAD that this speech wasn't WORSE than any other he has done before. So, he gets kudos. Maybe he doesn't deserve them.

        Btw, it really was kind of a badly-written speech. Maybe he needs to invest in a decent speech-writer in addition to a good people person.

        "Trump’s speech included plenty of lies, but they were the same lies that we’re used to hearing from this president. Because there weren’t any new lies, Trump gets praised. The speech was full of fact-free fear-mongering and ethnic scapegoating. But it’s the same variety of fear-mongering and ethnic scapegoating we’ve come to expect from this president. At least he didn’t ratchet up the demagoguery. So Trump gets praised. The speech was shallow and narcissistic. But that’s just who Trump is. It wasn’t any more shallow or narcissistic than, say, his Twitter feed. So Trump gets praised. The alleged magnanimity in the speech for which Trump is winning plaudits wasn’t just transparent and contrived; it was wholly at odds with Trump’s past behavior. His very recent past behavior. As in, his behavior from just hours earlier. But the pundit class has the memory of a tsetse fly. So Trump gets praised."

    5. ahorseback profile image47
      ahorsebackposted 6 months ago

      Trump is all business and motivational  production ,   Not even Reagan could claim that  ,  Clintons ? ,Obama  ? Nope,   .....  I still don't like Trump  however he is everything I've ever experienced of  financially successful employers .   Hate  em'  all you want  but watch them  move and shake the work environment .

      The left just has to hate ..........simple , its not an environment that feeds the entitled , so just  hate , pure and simple.
      He simply doesn't fit the" gimme"  mentality.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        "he is everything I've ever experienced of  financially successful employers .   Hate  em'  all you want  but watch them  move and shake the work environment"

        This is something that becomes clearer nearly every day.  Trump is a businessman, not a politician, and talks and acts like one.  Why that is so difficult to understand is beyond me.

        1. ahorseback profile image47
          ahorsebackposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I particularly like to watch the established swamp dwellers bob their heads at him like they REALLY understand just what you said  when he speaks .  Did you see the Democratic congressional  faces in the crowd last night ?.........Can anyone hear that sucking sound .......as the plug is being pulled.

    6. Kathleen Cochran profile image85
      Kathleen Cochranposted 6 months ago

      He gave an adequate performance of a president.  The setting, the script, the costume, the audience response. 
      Today he is himself again.

      1. jackclee lm profile image71
        jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        He is a great showman. Let's wait and see if he delivers.
        If he accomplish 50% of what he said, he will go down in history as one of the greats...

        1. Kathleen Cochran profile image85
          Kathleen Cochranposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          From your mouth to God's ears.  Don't doubt he'll go down in history as one of the greats.  The  question is: great what?

          1. jackclee lm profile image71
            jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Well, let's hope and pray that he will make America great for you and for me and my children...

    7. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 months ago

      Dow Jones Industrial Average
      DOW · March 1, 3:07 PM EST
      21,152.48
      ▲ 340.24

    8. Misfit Chick profile image93
      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago

      Well, like I just said... He's not doing a very good job so far. Trump has been nothing but one disappointment after another. Just ONCE, I would like to hear him say something from the heart without the manipulation. Even when the Navy Seal's widow was addressed, I'm suspicious about it since he doesn't seem to be taking much responsibility for that raid - typical of him to blame everyone else BUT himself. If they got a bunch of helpful info & they consider it to be a success - then fine. But to blame your Generals, their plan and the fact that 'they lost' one is not exactly the attitude of an ideal POTUS.

      1. jackclee lm profile image71
        jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Wow, perception is so strange.
        Yours obviously disagree in contrast to millions of other Americas.
        From the reaction of the news media and wall street, most people disagree with your perception.
        I wonder what does that tell you about your world view...
        Any way, as I said, we will have to see if he delivers on his promises.
        Even a 50% success is welcomed.

        1. Misfit Chick profile image93
          Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          You're right, perception is strange... I have yet to figure out why T-fans are so sure that they are in the majority. Why do you think all the controversy exists around him? Cuz he ISN'T in line with 'the majority' - and that will change drastically after the next election. He's woken up hoards of sleeping people; and GOP will not be keeping their 'majority' very much longer in congress.

          Their own people are mad - thus, the town hall mess. Trump split the GOP in the same way that Bernie split the Dems. He just did it in a much more offensive & mouthy way, LoL!

          1. jackclee lm profile image71
            jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Perhaps but he is in the drivers seat. Whatever happens over the next 4 years will determine our fate.
            If he succeeds, we will all be the beneficiary... if he fails, your team will get to play. That is how democracy works... for 200+ years.

          2. Ken Burgess profile image82
            Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            You attribute a handful of protestors and the liberal media as a sign that the majority doesn't support him, you will see this is wrong.

            This has been going on for six years now, the media bashed the 'tea party' used all the same labels against them that they used against Trump. 

            That effort by the media and some politicians didn't stop a wave of Republicans from being voted in... and again in 2014... and again in 2016.

            2012 was an aberration because Obama was up for re-election and the ACA hadn't kicked in yet.  That and Romney didn't connect with the 'middle class' the way that Trump did.

            The only thing that can save the Democrats from losing a bunch more seats in Congress in 2018 is the performance of the Republicans... if they renege on doing away with Obamacare... if they fail to support Trump's effort on tax reductions and infrastructure/job creation... then the tide will turn for the Dems.  If the Republicans do make good on their promises... the Dems will be such a minority they will be powerless to do anything from 2018-to-2020.

            1. Misfit Chick profile image93
              Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              "That effort by the media and some politicians didn't stop a wave of Republicans from being voted in... and again in 2014... and again in 2016."

              Trump doesn't have anything to do with that 'wave' - it was a completely different thing that the GOP was working to accomplish; and Trump hijacked their party this year and threw a wrench in it.

              How? Have you heard anything about the GOP's town hall issues going on? Good Republicans who can see & hear what a manipulative jerk Trump is are as MAD as any liberal who doesn't like him being in there  - both for the same reasons: he's an inexperienced loose cannon who does not represent us. Some of them even have actual policy issues on top of that.

              GOP were on a role, they had a good thing going... all bets (and gloves) are off, now. People who were not paying attention before are NOW paying attention. Don't count on the GOP's winning streak continuing... and I hope you all don't start bawling like you did last time when we elected Obama in after the last warmongering GOP fiasco.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                The 'town hall issues' are fabricated crap of the MSM... same as they always do, they are attempting to mold public perceptions, problem for them is not enough people pay attention to them anymore. And even those that still do take what they say with a strong dose of skepticism.

                The GOP didn't have a good thing going... once more you miss the core of what is going on... the 'tea party' had a thing going on, and they still do, the 'tea party' is a collection of former Republicans, Independents and Democrats that are fed up with Washington, are fed up with Congress especially, and they DEMAND change in D.C.

                They DEMAND that Obamacare is done away with, that NAFTA and its ilk is done away with, that they are paid attention to and not marginalized and most importantly that the politicians care about their jobs, rather than the corporation's profits.

                So again, I say it is all on the Republicans now... they can get the things done that they were elected to do, rid us of Obamacare, rid us of these job stealing trade agreements and start taxing the damned imports rather than the citizens of America that still have jobs... or they can face ultimately a unified mob from the far left and the far right and everyone in the middle rising up against them.

                Trump is the FU by the people to the corrupt establishment... what happens if that FU isn't heeded... if corrections aren't made and economic prosperity for the working class restored, is an eventual revolt... or marital law.  I don't see either of the latter happening, I see economic prosperity being restored, and the continual marginalization of the 'left' for the foreseeable future (8 to 12 years).

                1. Misfit Chick profile image93
                  Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Well of course you would think its all fabricated, your manipulative president said so on Twitter - and what comes out of his mouth is proven gold. Everything else is fake news, LoL! "The so-called angry crowds in home districts of some Republicans are actually, in numerous cases, planned out by liberal activists. Sad!"

                  Of course they are being planned by the opposition - which are NOT all 'liberals'. Again, you know this: its not all liberals who are protesting.

                  Your perception of things is so twisted, its not even sort of funny. The Donald came onto the stage spontaneously. Its not like the tea party PLANNED for him to do what he has been doing. He simply said all the things you wanted to hear and you DIDN'T CARE that he was a divisive, dishonest JERK. Change at 'any cost' is not the kind of change any country needs.

                  If you REALLY wanted to change things, you could have actually CHOSEN an appropriate candidate, groomed that person toward the cause - and done it with a NON-hate-inducing, offensive, insulting & notoriously outright LYING president.

                  If this is what the tea party wanted, there is no respect for that. HATE and divisions being driven deeper & deeper is NOT cool, appropriate nor productive. Yeah, the rest of the country is waking UP and we'll be taking it back ASAP. You have a little while longer to celebrate your successful-failure of an excuse for a president.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                    Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    That is a nice effort to deflect the truth of my words.
                    First the MSM lost all credibility with me long ago, long before the 'youtube' Benghazi lies they supported, long before 9/11 even.  But that is because I was out in the world doing our government's dirty work and seeing how our MSM covered what was going on in the world... not minor lies, but bold lies 180 degrees in opposition to the truth, over, and over again.

                    Second, the people who are trying to fight against this corrupt and enslaving system in control on D.C. didn't have the ability to "CHOSE an appropriate candidate" ... are you really that clueless, do you really think anyone could be groomed and run through the political system to represent the people?

                    Do you think Obama wasn't a shill? Do you think he was actually in there working for what was best for Americans, or the minority classes?

                    I listened to Louis Farrakhan the other day, and you know one of the points he made was that Trump was exactly right when he said 'what do you have to lose?'  he then said 'you have supported the Democratic Party for 50 years, and what has it gotten you?'

                    Even Farrakhan knows that Trump isn't his enemy... it is the people trying to depose of Trump, ruin his Administration, stop his ability to govern that are the REAL enemies of the American people... the enemies of the working class the desperate class, the blacks and the whites.

                    You don't get it because you believe the PROPAGANDA the lies fed to you, you actually think these fools on CNN make good points and stand for something of value... you don't realize that they are nothing but puppets for the people intent on destroying what remains of your Constitution, your Liberties, and your ability to pursue happiness.

                    Trump is vilified because he is a billionaire that the establishment can't control... he is not a mouthpiece, a prop, a puppet... the more legit of a person he is, the more he is willing to actually go out of his way to protect Americans, the workers, the Constitution, the more likely they are going to put a bullet in his head... and soon... because that is what happens to REAL champions of the people in this Country... from JFK to MLK.  It hasn't gotten better since those times in the 60s, it has only gotten far more corrupt.

                    Its not my perceptions that are twisted... I took my blinders off a long time ago.  Why don't you give it a try... but I warn you, the world can be a scary place when you see it for what it really is.

                    1. Misfit Chick profile image93
                      Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      I don't sit in front of TV all day to have them spoon-feed me everything. That you assume everyone who isn't you does that is the reason why you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.

                      No, I don't think for a second that Obama wasn't a shill for the people within the Democratic party who wanted real change - they did with him EXACTLY what I just suggested you should have done INSTEAD of Trump: came across someone who was capable of performing to their agenda of 'change'. They groomed him for a few years, had him hijack the election in 2008 (kind of like Trump but with far more approval) and VOILA - 8 years of BLISS!! LoL!

                      Neither Obama nor ANY OTHER PRESIDENT has EVER insulted & offended the American people or the world as much as Trump has. This is not only acceptible to you, its admired AND encouraged. No, no respect whatsoever for Trump or any of his minions who think he's the coolest thing since Putin.

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                    2. profile image59
                      jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      i so agree with you ken burgess

              2. profile image59
                jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                the thing is, he is the president.  we don't have to like it.  but he is there for a reason- he was voted in.  and his ideas are not that bad.  if you look past the rhetoric and the usual salesman tactics, you will see some substance.  no i am not a fan, however, i like some of his ideas.  number one, i don't like seeing mexican and other flags waving in the streets. this is the usa and the place for foreign flags are embassies and private homes.  number two, i agree that illegal immigration has to stop.  there are laws however, concerning refugee status and asylum status that should not be ignored.  people are getting swept up regardless of legal asylum status.

                third - i agree with him that the fat on some of those bills has to be cut.  i have always felt that the fat shouldn't be added to bills.  however, i don't think he can do much about it.

                his hands are simply tied on some things and he will learn, as he grows, what he can do and what he can't.  the americans didn't want another politician - they wanted an outsider.  what they didn't realise is that though he claimed to be an outsider and most of the politicians were against him (which is what fueled his election) he was and still is one of the biggest insiders of all.

                so people don't like that his cabinet consists of cronies who are billionaires and business people?  what do they think they elected?

                i see him playing the part he was elected to play.  and he will try to do what he promised.  in the past so many promises were not just broken, they were forgotten the minute the men were in office. 

                for me, the most important difference is that he is encouraging patriotism and national sovereignty and pulling us back from globalism and the plans of world government.  there is so much there that i can't get into it but if you research it you will understand better.  if for no other reason, i applaud him.  however there are other issues that i like too- like choice for schools for children.

    9. abwilliams profile image83
      abwilliamsposted 6 months ago

      I thought he did a very good job. But, at one point, I thought he sounded just like a Democrat. When he spoke of assisting entrepreneurial women.
      I think we are all on an even playing field, it's up to us to make the play!
      I do not want to be singled out, as needing assistance, but that's just me!
      It was funny though, while he was making those comments, two Democratic women looked at each other with that head cock thing that dogs do when they hear a siren or an unusual sound.
      I imagine their conversation went something like this.....
      "What did he just say? He stole that from us!" "Whatever....I'll not clap, even if he says he's giving away free money!' "You know that's right girl, I'll not budge, these hands are staying under."

      1. jackclee lm profile image71
        jackclee lmposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Haha...that is funny.

    10. TLilly15 profile image60
      TLilly15posted 6 months ago

      I heard President Trump speech last night, I thin he means everything that he says, I really hope he don't let the american people down.

    11. profile image59
      raefontaneposted 6 months ago

      I think he wants the good wealthy for his country but, he risks about somethings. We must understand that this is not more 1950's and there are new tegnologies who are better, also new consolidated social groups who were hidden a time ago and a more open minded people. So Every step we do must be according how this world works now.

    12. Timothy Anderson profile image83
      Timothy Andersonposted 6 months ago

      Well said, Ken Burgess.... well said.

    13. ahorseback profile image47
      ahorsebackposted 6 months ago

      Misfit Chick , Quite the contrary , The American Voters are Brilliant enough ,as proven in this past election  - The American PEOPLE are smarter  than either the established  groups in BOTH parties in D.C. ,  They are smarter than the totally phony agenda-ed   90% ' Left-stream News Media ', and they are especially smarter than the average  believer in  Obama Bred , plague of Political Correctness .
      Because YOU and your party of misfit - believers  couldn't either keep up with the train of brilliant political maneuvering  that got Trump and the American voters  ELECTED AND TO where they are today - in the white house  In  congress and  in the house  , More than proves my point !

      Don't feel bad though ,Maybe next term .......... Not --the way it looks right now !
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      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Sure you proved your repetitive, ignorant points cuz repeating things over & over again makes them true - no actually truth needed. Trump taught you that, LoL!

        The American people didn't vote Trump into office by the masses as you are indicating - only a FEW easily-manipulated folks like yourself did that. The rest of this SMART country either voted for Hillary or stayed home because they knew better than to vote for a inexperienced, insulting, divisive jerk like that.

        1. ahorseback profile image47
          ahorsebackposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Wrong again,   " only a few easily manipulated elected him.........blah blah  blah ",  ..............But they did it  from each state just  as the system was designed - What is it  with you mostly  naïve  liberals that want to believe we live  in   and practice  a virtual democracy ?

          1. Misfit Chick profile image93
            Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Go look at the stats and stop playing stupid (you can't actually be this stupid, but maybe you are) - Trump being in that office is an accident that you get to take advantage of for awhile. But let's keep running this already-proven issue into the ground because you can't deal with an actual one.

            Read Ken & my discussion about the Tea Party, Trump & Obama previously - and respond to it - or shut up. Another T-fan MO: talk about your silly twist on things and ignore the important stuff.

          2. Ivan Tod profile image61
            Ivan Todposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Took the words right out of my mouth! If people actually knew how the process worked there would be no discussion about how smart or stupid anyone who voted for President Trump was or is. The true "stupidity" comes in the form of people actually believing their votes would elect the president in November and what's even more stupid is people talking badly about those who did vote for him.

            1. profile image59
              jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              thank you.  it is past time people stop insulting each other personally when claiming to discuss issues.  we have to get past personal insults and disagreements to be able to adequately discuss things that matter.  and no, we don't personally elect a president.  that goes to the electoral college which was set up on the premise that people are too stupid to know what they want and that if we allowed the popular vote to carry, certain people in certain districts would be under-represented.  strange how that concept works but that is how it has been for a long time and i don't see that changing.

        2. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Personally, I'd call 60,000,000 "masses" of people.  Perhaps they weren't "American" people though?

          1. Misfit Chick profile image93
            Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            The point was, its not even close to a majority of this country, and you all like to insist that MOST people in this country wanted T-man in there. Same thing to you. I'm guessing you might actually have an answer to the very good point I made about the Tea Party - but DON'T ANYONE READ IT cuz its pretty incriminating and makes t-fans look like even bigger idiots if that's possible.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              "its not even close to a majority of this country,"

              Personally, I'd call a difference of less than 2% pretty "close".  Of course if you include all the non-voters (children, illegals, cons, and those too lazy to get off their butts) it decreases that considerably.

              1. Misfit Chick profile image93
                Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                From Ivan's comment before this one: "The true "stupidity" comes in the form of people actually believing their votes would elect the president in November and what's even more stupid is people talking badly about those who did vote for him."

                I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not - but, that is probably the reason why so many DIDN'T come out to vote at all, because they didn't think their vote would count, anyway. I know a lot of people in blue states didn't vote because they were sure Hillary was going to win in their state whether they voted, or not.

                It turns out that our votes DO COUNT. Believing that they don't would be the stupid thing. I would say that it is one of the few smart things T-fans did: came out and voted. I've congratulated you lots of times and I'm so done doing that part. We're TRYING to move onto other relative things...

                But, I'm really starting to see how utterly useless it is debating T-fools - they apparently can't read or respond to real criticism against their beloved potus or tea party or whatever you're giving credit to. All any of you can do is throw around the same BS like this. Let's run the voting numbers into the ground and KEEP talking about how differently each side views them.

                I'm done in here with you T-dorks. Damn I LOVE the new non-PC stuff. That would be the 2nd thing I have appreciated about the new prez; and the 3rd would be the fact that he has united 'the majority' in this country against him and his manipulated minions.

                The first election after this will be a big test. We'll see if the GOP can manage to keep a majority in Congress. I highly doubt it simply because they allowed Trump to happen. And while I realize most of his fans don't get why or how... Trump has been a huge slap in the face to the American people as a whole. Respect for the GOP isn't quite as low as respect for Trump, but its close. They know damn well they would not have won if the angry base they had been cultivating for 8 years hadn't been mesmerized by a shiny, egotistical motor-mouth who says & does so many things to impress & inspire their simple hateful, brainwashed sensibilities.

                However, I will say this one last time because it is probably the most important aspect of things that Trump's crowd keeps missing: the GOP especially (but government, in general - there is really only ONE government in that office no matter which party's guy is in there) are well-aware that our divisions are PROFITABLE, especially if they lead to WAR or situations that closely resemble it.

                Try not to fall for the bait, anymore... Just TRY, jeez!! Again, we're your neighbors not your enemies. And while we don't think very much of your curtailed thought processes at the moment, we don't want to see anyone hurt over silly manipulations, either. I know, we're a bunch of raging pacifists who actually value life and the environment.

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                1. profile image59
                  jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  first, i would drop the memes if you are wanting us to take you seriously, then i would drop the personal insults.  calling us idiots won't sway us to your way of thinking.  yes votes count- just not in the way people believe.  if a district has enough- more than 50% - votes to call it republican, that tells their representative in the electoral college that they want trump.  if it has more democrats, that tells them they want hillary. 

                  however, part of it also depends on the electoral college.  they can choose not to vote the way their district voted.  the only thing they choose is a president- not anyone else.  if they would have chosen to go democratic when their district went republican, there would have been backlash - but it was still their choice.

          2. Ivan Tod profile image61
            Ivan Todposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            In actuality only 304 votes out of the apparent millions elected Trump to the presidency...No masses needed.

    14. abwilliams profile image83
      abwilliamsposted 6 months ago

      Misfit, I missed your commentary about the Tea Party. I was very active with this grassroots phenomenon.
      Please repeat, I'd like to address it.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image93
        Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Go back to Ken's response that started this and read until you get back here.

        1. abwilliams profile image83
          abwilliamsposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          No time for that. Too much to weed through.

          1. Misfit Chick profile image93
            Misfit Chickposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Oh I know, its hard... reading, thinking, stuff like that. Its how things got like they are now. I read through stuff, and I'm guessing most non-Trump peeps do, too. It is part of weeding through & analyzing piles of information. Go back to not thinking, it really is easier.
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      2. profile image59
        jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        don't bother.  it wasn't much really.  just a condemnation stating that if changing the government and getting rid of the indolence of congress was what the tea party wanted there was no respect for that.  the only good points were being made by ken.  i think the sarcasm in her answers is totally uncalled for seeing that you made a really nice request.  i suggest you hit ctrl + f and use the find box to find "tea party" on the page.  there are all of 11 including my two times of typing it here

    15. profile image59
      jfaiposted 6 months ago

      i loved it.  and i thank his daughter for talking to him about what it means to look and sound presidential.

    16. abwilliams profile image83
      abwilliamsposted 6 months ago

      Misfit - A truly great "Point" bears repeating!

      1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image60
        Dont Taze Me Broposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Exactly AB, Anything that she said is the opposite of a great point and she must know it, that's why she won't repeat it.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image82
        Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        Misfit is a perfect example of the 'left', they think they are a overwhelming majority, and the more seats in Congress they lose ( & WH) the more irrational and in denial they get... they believe Trump and his staff are Russian spies, and the world is about to come to an end, because the lunatics they have left in Congress (Pelosi, Warren, Waters, Schumer, etc.) and the propaganda ministers on MSNBC, CNN, Post, etc, are telling them this.

        These same MSM sources and same politicians told them that Trump was hated, he was Hitler, he had no chance of winning... and yet here we are, weeks into a Trump Presidency.

        And still they don't get it.

        The Obama acolytes that had been placed into the D.C. offices the last 8 years are working against Trump, sabotaging him, undermining him, probably committing acts of treason against the country... in effort to cripple the Trump Administration.  Time will tell if they will succeed, or if it will backfire on them.

        But the saddest thing is... the Democrats in D.C. have given up on ANY efforts to work for the country or the good of the people... they are showing with their actions they don't care about the people, the nation's security, the prosperity of the nation... nothing, other than regaining control, power and prestige back, no matter the cost.

        1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image60
          Dont Taze Me Broposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          I couldn't have said it better myself Ken. Nice to see a sober voice here.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image82
            Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Thanks... on a side note...

            Hubpages should consider making a change, so that those who reply cannot attach more than one picture per reply, because if I or anyone else wanted to be immature enough to respond in kind, with 5 or 10 pictures a reply, suddenly this, and any other thread that devolved to such stupidity would be unreadable for the majority of people trying to interact.

            1. GA Anderson profile image84
              GA Andersonposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Hello Ken, I have a thought about your "side note."

              I would not want to see any content restrictions. No need to open the door to another "slippery slope" opportunity. There is an easier option.

              When we reply to a comment we have the option to "import and edit quote," so we can just snip out all the [img]picture links[/img] and then the agonizing repetition of so many memes goes away. Leaving only the irritation of the original response's  required scrolling.

              Of course there is a second option that I usually use - just don't respond to such posts. It is usually a wasted effort anyway. ;-)

              GA

              1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Thank you, but yes the second option is the one I take... I find that continued response to those that decide to go that route (a rarity fortunately) just begs for a continued deluge of pictures being replied back again.

            2. profile image59
              jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              they also need to add a like button so we can do approval or disapproval of people's responses and don't have to keep posting that we agree- or remain in silence when we do or do not agree

        2. Jean Bakula profile image93
          Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          The facts that show Russia swayed the election and uneducated people let them is a Democratic fault? If Hillary did half of the stuff Trump did, there would be hundreds of idiotic committees investigating her yet again.

          And much of Trump's staff is communicating on their own personal cell phones about classified material. Why isn't this challenged? What phone is Trump making his childish tweets from?

          1. Ken Burgess profile image82
            Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            Explain how Russia swayed the election?
            I am very interested in knowing what you consider 'swaying'?
            When CNN gave Clinton answers to questions, that was 'swaying'...
            When WikiLeaks exposed Clinton Emails, that was NOT swaying, that was simply making public what Clinton and her aids really believed and did.
            WikiLeaks doing this was substantially different from the NY Times an Washington Post going all out to undermine Trump, while deliberately concealing wrongdoing by Clinton, how exactly?
            You lump Trump supporters into a category of "uneducated people"...
            I am college educated, have a RE License a HI License I have run government funded programs with yearly budgets in the millions, I have written contracts, overseen budgets, and did a few things in the military before all that.
            How does that make me 'uneducated'?
            Perhaps only those who hold a Masters degree or Phd qualify?
            I knew I should have gotten that Law degree...

            1. Jean Bakula profile image93
              Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Ken,

              How can you say that when Wikileaks exposed Hillary's emails to the public, that didn't sway the polls in a big way? Julian Assange is a big troublemaker. Wikileaks knows a lot about Trump, but so far that has been kept quiet. Now we are finding most of Trump's cabinet has ties to Russia. He made the swamp worse by filling it with more millionaires and billionaires, who have little familiarity with whatever their positions need. Not being a politician could have been good, if his staff knew what they were doing. Kelley Anne hawking Ivanka's clothing line in front of the Presidential Seal? Even his disgusting sex tape and way he talks about women are repulsive. He has openly said he'd like to have sex with his own daughter. I had an overprotective, but loving Father, and I can see him rolling in his grave over that one.

              I don't know your level of education, but the Trump supporters I speak to near my home don't even know the difference between a Democrat and a Republican, and what kinds of views they may have. It was not meant to be a personal assessment of you, or to personally say you are not intelligent. It is obvious from your writings that you are..I have a business degree, an NJ Real Estate License, and do freelance writing on several different blogs that pay me quite well, since now you have made this tit for tat. I meant the average person. And I wish people would begin to understand that no matter what parties we are from, that doesn't mean we are more conservative or liberal on everything, it depends on the issue.

              I think Trump will be impeached or quit in a childish fit of anger before the first term is up.

              I was also getting annoyed by all the pictures, it makes it hard to follow what those on the thread are saying.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Jean,
                "How can you say that when Wikileaks exposed Hillary's emails to the public, that didn't sway the polls in a big way?"
                I think those emails being presented to the public, were no different than all the disparaging articles against Trump by the W. Post, NY Times, etc... information was put out, and it was up to the voters to decide what to believe.  I think that what was in those emails helped to expose Clinton and her aids, for what they really believed and did, and that is not a bad thing.

                "Wikileaks knows a lot about Trump, but so far that has been kept quiet. "
                What proof is there of this? 

                "Now we are finding most of Trump's cabinet has ties to Russia."
                What proof is there of this?

                Proof... not half hysterical accusations by Rachel Maddow, not belligerent unfounded statements made by Mika Brzezinski, daughter of the author of Between Two Ages, and a stout anti-American globalist...in other words not the talking heads of MSNBC or CNN who have an agenda to push their propaganda on you... but proof, facts, evidence.

                "He made the swamp worse by filling it with more millionaires and billionaires, who have little familiarity with whatever their positions need. Not being a politician could have been good, if his staff knew what they were doing."
                This may be true, time will tell, there was always a chance this could go south as he had no experience with D.C. politics... the swamp right now is trying to drown him, the most corrupt forces in D.C. are doing everything they can to ruin his efforts.

                "He has openly said he'd like to have sex with his own daughter. "
                Do you have a link to that, is that actually on tape or video somewhere?
                Again... it is nothing but a smear without proof.

                "I was also getting annoyed by all the pictures, it makes it hard to follow what those on the thread are saying."

                I enjoy history and politics and always have, though I wouldn't say it is a passion, more of a hobby.  Also, I spent a dozen years in the Military traveling all over the world and getting to know an awful lot of how things work... what really goes on, and then what is told to America through the media instead.

                I also enjoy when I learn something new, or I am engaged by others with a better grasp on the subject of discussion than I have, which broadens my understanding.

                It is hard to explain things to others when you are working from a position of much greater knowledge about a topic than they are... for instance, if you and I were to get into a debate/discussion about Astrology, I would be at a major disadvantage, and would have little to offer, and you in turn would probably find it difficult to explain things to me, because your experience and knowledge of the subject dwarfs mine.

                Those that cannot accept that they know far less about a topic of discussion, or fear their ignorance, or fear the truth of the matter, typically result to insults, or posting lots of pictures.

                I don't mind that you have a different opinion... but when you do it is not enough just to say "everyone working for Trump has ties to Russia"...
                at best, that is just regurgitating what someone on CNN or whatever says.  I need proof, real facts, and so should you.

                1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image60
                  Dont Taze Me Broposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  The truth is there is absolutely no evidence, not even a poll that says the leaked emails changed anyone's votes. Clinton’s drop in the polls doesn’t line up perfectly with the surge in Wikileaks interest. When Wikileaks had its highest search day in early October, Clinton’s poll numbers were rising. They continued to go up for another two weeks, even as Wikileaks was releasing emails. That is, there isn’t one pivotal “aha!” point which shows that Wikileaks caused Clinton’s numbers to drop. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wi … y-clinton/

                  But Ken, no one on the left ever cares about the facts...all they care about is making up excuses for their failures because it is never their own fault. Obama blamed Bush, Hillary blames the Russians. They conduct themselves worse than immature spoiled brats, lie every time they open their mouths and then pretend they are the ones being presidential. Not this time.

                  And then there is this:

                  https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13432669_f248.jpg

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                    Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    "the left" ...
                    They refuse to realize that the Trump support isn't Trump support so much as it is ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT ... anti-D.C. corruption, corporate politics, global politics, etc. etc.
                    Any of "the left" that wants to label this Anti-Establishment group as Republican or Conservative does not get it.
                    Just like many of "the left" don't realize who and what has hijacked their own party... the 'intellectual elites' that want globalism... the Islamic movement... and the Marxists/Socialists/Communists...and of course the corporations.
                    The Democratic Party politicians give lip service to the American workers, give lip service to the American minorities... but they do little FOR them.  How can they? 
                    They can't be doing what is best for Americans when they are pushing globalist agendas, trade agreements that send jobs fleeing oversees, and taxing hard working Americans to support greedy Insurance companies and criminal Banks that screw over millions of mortgage holders and then make the taxpayers bail them out, without punishment.
                    The DNC and the handful of old GOP no longer represent America, American workers, or American Liberties and Freedoms... and that is why this is an ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT (Trump is not Republican or Democrat, he is populist, the Roto-Rooter candidate) VS. Establishment fight for the future of our country right now.
                    And some unfortunately don't see that... they see things still in terms of Democrats VS Republicans.

                    1. ahorseback profile image47
                      ahorsebackposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      This is exactly right !    Trump will not be brought down by politics as usual ,    To the point where  a lot of his followers  care little about  typical DC, politics or tradition ,  the media or the sensibilities of the P.C.,- D.C. is broken to the point of  simply salvaging the best and oust the rest .
                      ++++++++++++

                    2. profile image59
                      jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      i so agree.

              2. profile image59
                jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                he never, ever said he would like to have sex with his own daughter.  he made a comment on her beauty saying "if she weren't my daughter i would date her".  that was taken wrong by some people who have minds in the gutter and wanted to smear him.  that was not a comment on wanting to sleep with her as his daughter.  strange how some people see smut in every little comment a person makes.  i agree that his attitude towards women, calling them names and showing little respect for them bothers me.  but i don't for one minute see him as incestuous.

            2. Jean Bakula profile image93
              Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Ken,
              I don't know if you have time to read, but if so, you may enjoy Hillbilly Ellegy by J.D. Vance. It was very enlightening as far as the thinking processes of people who are in the "flyover states." Vance grew up in a poor, hillbilly family, but had grandparents who were decent people and wanted him to succeed. He went on to be a Harvard graduate.

              But it goes on to explain how many in that culture have no desire to work, are afraid of outsiders or anyone unllke them, and it's only a low percentage who even know who the President is. Still, the book is inspiring, as is any story where we see some degree of success or semi happy ending. It is a true story..

              Thanks for not being snarky about my hobbies of Astrology and Tarot. I have severe scoliosis and couldn't do a lot of physical things growing up, so like to learn and read.

              I watch political news from all sides, but there are too many opinion shows, which are not hard news. It makes one yearn for the days of Walter Cronkite. And websites can't be trusted. So all this quoting or where did you get this fact or that fact or non fact doesn't really matter, even if it's in the news cycles for months. Because nobody will accept your source in any of these threads.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Jean,
                Funny you mention that book, my mother in-law spent a couple days with us the other week, and she mentioned that I should read it as well.

                She is a die-hard Democrat, and a quick witted intelligent woman.  But she views things from a perspective about her party that no longer exists.

                One very large reason why the Democrats are losing so many elections the past 6 years, is because of the very real truth that they have abandoned the working-class Americans, worse, they often denigrate the working class, and put the cost of their 'social advances' IE - the ACA on their backs to pay for.

                Michael Moore said it best... even though he wasn't siding with them, and in full context of the movie he was actually denigrating them... this short clip is spot on:   
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc

                Its not that Trump is a great man, its that the Democratic party abandoned hardworking Americans... betrayed them in 2008 when they bailed out the banks with taxpayer dollars, while doing nothing to help millions who either lost their homes, or lost all value of their home.  Then they betrayed them again when the passed the ACA... which was in reality a new TAX on many Americans, which made healthcare cost more for many Americans, which helped Insurance companies make money, and the medical industry make money, and the Pharma make money... at the Middle Class' expense.

                The Democrats support horrible, corporate friendly, foreign nation friendly, American jobs killing trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA.... TPP and TTiP... wages are down, benefits are down, 40+ hour jobs are down, and half the American workforce, almost 100 million people, are out of work and on some form of welfare.

                This is why the Democrats have no support from 2/3rds of the country... this is why they are being voted out of office, after having a solid majority in Congress and having the White House just 8 years ago.

                The Democrat politicians have done this to themselves, they now champion fringe elements in our society, the socialists, the Islamic movement, and all that currently falls under the FAR left.

                That is why people like me support Trump, support the Republicans (new politicians, not corrupt cronies like McCain) because the Democratic Party left me, left Middle America, left working Americans no choice.

                1. Jean Bakula profile image93
                  Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Ken, I agree that all of those trade deals hurt us.

                  I watch Bill Maher, and a week before the election, Michael Moore told him Trump would win and why.. I knew it from casting their astrology charts, but don't give a conclusion on those. I didn't want to believe it, and was so wanting to see a female win. I know the Clintons' are ruthless.

                  The D's did get lazy and took it for granted that they "had" the minority vote. I can't disagree with you on these points.

                  But Trump is scary. Not being a politician could still be fine, if he surrounds himself with people who are experts in their fields. The Generals seem fine. But a Sec.of Education who never went to a public school? A HUD director with no experience with running a gov't. agency? And I don't think Sessions should be AG when he has a solid record of segregation going back many years. These Russian allegations are frightening as well. Trump's family shouldn't be running his company, it should have gone in a trust, and he should have shown his tax returns, though I'm sure both sides have 2 copies, so their off shore accounts are safe. Ivanka and her husband should not be advisers, no other President has done that and got away with it. So all his family can tell whatever is going on in the world, and I forget what I was watching when Donald Jr. said that about "all the money coming in from Russia." Plus the tweeting, the desire to speak to the American public and denigrate the press is getting on the authoritative side. These all concern me.

                  All liberals are not so far left on every issue. Education matters to me because my son is a teacher, and I hear stories about how lazy the teachers are. Obamacare is not perfect. But now we can't uninsure millions of people. I hope it can be overhauled in a more workable way. It's normal for young people to think they are invincible, and they shouldn't have to pay a lion's share. But nobody has thought of anything better yet. I guess like me, you were off your parent's insurance at 18? I had to go to work immediately for insurance coverage. So I don't think it should be tied to your job.

                  But I also think this division has to end. The D's need new blood and have to find a new way to define who they are and what they need to achieve. Sanders caused a lot of division, 1968 that he refers to was gone a long time ago. I hope everyone calms down, Trump gets more used to the role, because it must be overwhelming, and nothing will get done if they all can't work together.

                  I just thought of another book, The President's Club by Nancy Gibbs and Michael Duffy. It's an interesting look at how new Presidents depend and call the last one, to get advice, even if it's just how to manage the daily schedule. I liked that Obama called Bush and asked "How can I manage the day and still see my daughters before they go to bed?" And how George W left Obama a beautiful note saying that he and Laura wished him every success. Ex presidents don't have such animosity towards each other, and actually act as mentors more than the public knows. Bill Clinton said he felt as bad as he felt when his Mom died when Nixon died. Not many people have this prestigious position or live through such stress. I hope Trump will listen to some of what Obama tells him. He's lost Bill, and Trump may have alienated the Bush family after his cruelty to Jeb. Let's hope for the best.

                  Best Regards,
                  Jean

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image82
                    Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    Jean,
                    I think the feud between Obama and Trump is too deep for that.  Unfortunately things occurred between the two men that I don't believe either will forgive... Trump forwarded the 'Birth Certificate' issue... and Obama humiliated Trump, time after time, while speaking at the WH Correspondents Dinner, on the campaign trial for Clinton, etc.

                    Attacking Trump rather than taking the high road, as a President should, helped to motivate Trump to get where he is today... this part of Obama's personality, an arrogance and willingness to engage people like Trump in a effort to demean them, helped create the divisiveness in D.C. the likes of which we have not seen.  But which allowed an environment for Trump to thrive.

                    Obama was, and chose to remain a 'Cult of Personality' figure, he was the first President to do so... to appear on the View, Ellen, and so many other shows, repeatedly as President... it opened the door for a 'Cult of Personality' figure like Trump to step in.

                    But beyond that... D.C. has been broken for a quarter century now, our Congress serves the wants of the international corporations and the military industry, it serves special interests, and foreign interests, and banking interests... just about everyone BUT the people's best interests.

                    Trump isn't really the problem... he is a symptom of something gone terribly wrong, and until the people of this country A) correct the course of the nation by cleaning out such corruption or B) are forced to endure a darker more oppressive government.  This foolishness, this bickering, this lack of civility, this unrest will continue.

                    Trump isn't what worries me so much as what comes after Trump, and how far the 'powers that be' will go to make sure there is never another non-establishment, populist politician to reach the WH... and I worry about what happens if something happens to Trump, and he is no longer there... who replaces him? And how badly do the fighting factions in America react.

                    You are right about a lot of things, he has filled many positions with less than ideal picks, and he has yet to fill or appoint lower positions all together. for whatever reason, be it his fault, Congress, both...

                    Like you, I remember when times were a lot simpler, when as a teenager I went to work, had a full time job (excellent benefits health/dental/401k), it was easy and affordable to go to college at the same time (part time)...

                    Here's hoping for better times ahead, after the storm, the sky shines brightest... lets hope this is just a mild storm, and not a hurricane ahead.

                    1. Jean Bakula profile image93
                      Jean Bakulaposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                      Yes, Trump and Obama aren't going to be buddies. But from what I read, the last few of our Presidents did learn the ropes from each other. Trump has cut everyone off.

                      Clinton went on all the usual shows too. I can't recall if Bush did. I too have wondered what would happen if Trump died in office or some nut assassinated him (not something I want to see).It seems both parties have to figure out what direction they want to take, and do it. But they work for us, and so easily forget that. I really didn't think Trump would touch social issues, born and raised in New York. It's best we stay united.

                      I recall LBJ being blamed for Vietnam, when really he lost the South for 50 years for all his brave stances on Civil Rights. And yet many don't realize it was really Kennedy who got us deeper involved in Vietnam. All that nostalgia comes in when people think of him. And the leaders of the D's are getting old, they need fresh faces. I think the R's go too far with religion and trying to get into personal family issues, other things are more important and time gets wasted. Right now, Mexican children and Moms are being deported and separated.The children will be raped or sold into sexual slavery. That's not the American way. Somebody should be telling Trump stuff like this.

                      For better or worse, they all have to learn to work together. Being a businessman, I think Trump can probably think of a better healthcare system. I think his mind works fast and he thinks about too many things at once. He needs the right people to keep him focused. He surely can do something about the awful trade deals too.

                      Here's to better times.

            3. promisem profile image94
              promisemposted 6 months ago in reply to this

              Are the FBI, CIA and NSA all lying about Russian involvement? Are Republicans John, McCain, Darrell Issa and various others all lying too?

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                Can you point to a single FBI, CIA of NSA quotation showing that the Russians affected the election?  Of is this more "If I can make people think they did often enough they'll believe it for sure!"?

                Because, at best, all I've seen yet is that they tried, but without ever succeeding.

                1. promisem profile image94
                  promisemposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                  Here is the joint FBI and Department of Homeland Securities report on just the hacking.

                  https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/f … 6-1229.pdf

                  I'm sure this is another lie by U.S. intelligence. Trump supporters have a much better spy network than the FBI, CIA and NSA.

                  In answer to your question, did they change the outcome? We'll never know because Trump and his supporters are blocking all attempts at an investigation.

                  1. profile image59
                    jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

                    while we sit back and let our intelligence do its job, it is not unusual to wonder, in light of all of the black ops kept secret, governments overturned, hits put out on presidents of other countries, etc, just how much should we believe that they say?  healthy skepticism doesn't hurt.  i prefer to trust with my eyes wide open

          2. profile image59
            jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

            trump didn't "allow" the russians to hack the election.  they claim they didn't hack it or interfere but this is not the first time an election was interfered with.  the investigations need to be done without all of the name-calling and suppositions on our part.

    17. profile image59
      jfaiposted 6 months ago

      depends on who you want to believe.  according to the world tribune, it happened.http://www.worldtribune.com/obamas-first-fisa-request-to-monitor-trump-in-june-2016-was-denied/

      and according to this link http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ … paign.html

      and this one https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac … d730f44ff5

      and this one http://www.breitbart.com/big-government … ine-trump/

      most seem to be quoting the same source.  so do we believe it or not?  personally, while i think obama didn't do half the things he was accused of, i do know that he is human. if he really suspected trump of using the russians to hack the elections, i wouldn't be surprised.  in fact i would think he might have a duty to find out.  however, when they turned up nothing, they should have stopped.

    18. andywang9876 profile image59
      andywang9876posted 6 months ago

      maybe in near future, china will overcome American to become NO 1,

      1. Ken Burgess profile image82
        Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago in reply to this

        #1 in what?
        They are already the #1 economy, #1 in Trade, #1 in Industry...
        Give them a few more years, they will be #1 Military as well

        1. profile image59
          jfaiposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          yes and if they have their way, and we continue with devaluing the dollar and making it unstable, their yuan renminbi will become the replacement for our dollar and the world will begin to use it instead of ours.

        2. Ivan Tod profile image61
          Ivan Todposted 6 months ago in reply to this

          Don't forget they are also #1 in human rights violations, #1 in generating air pollution and #1 (surpassing Russia) in espionage against the United States. That being said, being "number 1" is not always the best position to be in. As far as the dollar goes; Russia and China have already instituted a deal that cuts out the dollar;

          "Russia’s second biggest financial institution, VTB, signed a deal with Bank of China to bypass the dollar and pay each other in domestic currencies."
          http://www.gold-eagle.com/russia-china- … -us-dollar

     
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