Part of the concern around HB2 was abuse taking place in bathrooms, how concerned would you be about this in a public bathroom or do you feel that was just a red herring in the debate?
Part of the concern? I think not only abuse taking place but the fact the bill enabled abuse to take place was ALL of the concern and far from being any sort of red herring. House Bill 2 required that people at a government-run facility must use bathrooms and locker rooms that correspond to the gender on their birth certificate, if the rooms in question are multiple-occupancy. It has been repealed. With statistics that say less than .3% of the population is transgender (Mr. Gates of the Williams Institute who wrote a paper concluded that 0.3 percent of the total population is transgender, a rough estimate) it seems like the tail is wagging the dog. There are groups of people that are much larger minorities of the population that don't get laws that don't accommodate them repealed, why does such a tiny minority get to overrule the safety of children who can be victimized by perverts under the cover of laws that accommodates transgenders. You can't even prove someone is a transgender, it is a state of mind.
What brought up the topic was a conversation at work today here in NC.......Some folks were afraid that the repeal wasn't complete enough, and apparently the ACLU agreed with that...There was also talk of not having seen any abuse ever having taken place in a public bathroom, and that most abuse happens on the homefront and is by someone the abuser knows...Also as part of the conversation was what has happened with Priest in the Catholic Church....From that conversation, I was just trying to bring it to a wider audience.........
"Transgender sex disorders are the leading indicator of criminal sexual behavior."
* https://genderidentitywatch.com/transwo … -violence/
"88% of the transgender population, those people who are protected by gender identity and gender expression laws, are, as reported by their own advocacy organizations, males with a psychosexual disorder.
* https://outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com … ially-all/
I have never heard of a transgender person attacking someone in a bathroom, only being attacked in one/
The issue isn't about actual transgenders attacking or being attacked in a bathroom although if you allow a biological male to use a girls bathroom simply because he thinks he is a girl it may be more likely he may be attacked by some girl's father.
The issue of abuse due to allowing a "transgender" to use a bathroom of his opposite biological sex stems from, and this has occurred, perverts and predators posing as transgenders to obtain access to children or women in bathrooms they wish to prey upon. https://youtu.be/adCtC3-IaVI?t=70
The attacks were directed at people using the biologically correct bathroom and being assaulted because their appearance does not match their biological sex. Sometimes not even transgender people, a woman was assaulted by a walmart security officer just because he though she looked like a man. This whole fake-trans boogyman story is as mythical as the chupacabras. Woman attacked in bathrooms are normally attacked by men dressed as men who don't give a toss what the law about where to poop is because they a criminals. So you are tormenting law abiding people to try and control people who don't care about laws.
People should stop being such bloody busy bodies and let people poop wherever they see fit. Prosecute people for the crimes against other people and don't waste time inventing poop-crimes to harass people over.
You don't know anything about which you are speaking.
Man in women’s locker room cites gender rule
Seattle Parks and Recreation is facing a first-of-a-kind challenge to gender bathroom rules. A man undressed in a women’s locker room, citing a new state rule that allows people to choose a bathroom based on gender identity.
Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say
A man dressed as a woman was arrested in Virginia on Monday after police say he was caught peeping into restroom stalls three times in the past year.
Richard Rodriguez, 30, filmed a woman in a bathroom stall at the Potomac Mills Mall, Prince William County Police said on Tuesday. A 35-year-old woman was in the stall when she saw a bag moved toward her under the stall divider. Rodriguez apparently had been filming her, police said.
Palmdale man arrested for videotaping in women’s bathroom
PALMDALE – A 33-year-old Palmdale man who allegedly dressed as a woman while secretly videotaping females using a department store bathroom was charged with several misdemeanor counts Tuesday, authorities said.
Jason Pomare was charged with six counts of unlawful use of a concealed camera for the purposes of sexual gratification, according to Sergeant Brian Hudson of the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department’s Special Victims Bureau.
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter
A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”
Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012.
University of Toronto Dumps Transgender Bathrooms After Peeping Incidents
The administration at the University of Toronto was recently enlightened on why two separate washrooms are generally established for men and women sharing co-ed residencies.
Here are nineteen more stories of predators using public bathrooms to criminally victimize women and children:
Man accused of filming women in Smyrna park’s bathroom
SMYRNA, Tenn. – Authorities believe a man arrested in Wisconsin filmed women inside Smyrna restrooms.
William Davis was charged in Smyrna with felony especially aggravated sexual exploitation of a minor.
Fullerton man arrested on suspicion of filming people in a Chapman University bathroom
A 24-year-old man was arrested Tuesday after a hidden cell phone was found recording video inside a Chapman University bathroom, police said.
A female employee told campus public safety officials at 1 a.m. Tuesday she had seen a cell phone while inside a unisex single-person restroom in the Leatherby Libraries, said Lt. Fred Lopez of the Orange Police Department. The bathroom is located on the first floor Rotunda Commons.
Campbell man, a teacher, arrested for secretly recording people inside bathroom
SAN JOSE – A private elementary schoolteacher accused of secretly recording people in the bathroom of his home was charged Wednesday with three misdemeanors, according to the Santa Clara County District Attorney’s Office.
Authorities say the arrest Thursday of 31-year-old Andrew Donahue of Campbell was not related to his role as a teacher at Challenger School in San Jose. Donahue has been charged with three counts of taking photographs or filming someone who is in a bathroom or in a state of privacy, according to prosecutor Luis Ramos.
Teacher among 16 facing child porn charges, also accused of filming with tablet in bathroom
HAMILTON TOWNSHIP, N.J. – A teacher, a school bus driver, and a high school student were among 16 people facing child pornography charges in New Jersey, authorities announced Wednesday.
Thomas Guzzi Jr., 36, of Pitman… is also charged with third-degree invasion of privacy for allegedly hiding a tablet computer in a bathroom stall at the theater to record video of others using the toilet. A video found on his computer allegedly revealed him installing the camera.
Colfax man arrested for allegedly filming women in bathrooms
COLFAX, Wash. – A man was arrested after deputies believe he had been secretly filming multiple women using the bathroom. Court documents indicate the recordings were taken both in his home, as well as one of the alleged victim’s homes. The recordings dated back several years, according to court records.
Michael A. Novak was arrested as deputies arrived with a search warrant for his home. His alleged victim’s said they knew and trusted him.
Man arrested after camera found in restaurant bathroom
MIAMI – Beyond the outer walls of La Perla, inside the women’s bathroom, is where a customer said she found a recording device facing the direction of the restaurant’s toilet.
The woman was assisting her child in the bathroom off Southwest 152nd Street and Southwest 137th Avenue Saturday when, according to a Miami police report, she noticed a strange device tucked away under the sink.
Teen arrested in Perrysburg Jr. High Investigation
PERRYSBURG, OH – Police have arrested a 14-year-old student in connection to an investigation involving two teens from Perrysburg Jr. High School.
The incident happened on March 18., after an alleged 14-year-old boy video-taped a 13-year-old student in the bathroom and forwarded the video to other students.
Maryland teacher charged with filming sex videos in school bathroom
A Maryland volunteer teacher and choir leader charged with sexual abuse and child pornography directed children in sexually explicit videos filmed in a school bathroom, according to court documents released on Tuesday.
NY School Security Guard Took Snapchat Video of Boy in Bathroom: Police
A security guard at a Long Island high school has been arrested, accused of taking video of a student going to the bathroom and posting it to Snapchat, police say.
Police said at a news conference Wednesday that the guard at Roosevelt High School followed the 16-year-old boy into the bathroom and videotaped him in the stall from outside.
Victim videotaped in bathroom 13 times, police say
WILTON MANORS, Fla. – A Wilton Manors man arrested on sexual battery and video voyeurism charges last year is facing additional charges after another victim came forward, authorities announced Friday.
Former Martinsville Chili’s Manager Arrested After Videotaping Women In Restroom
(MARTINSVILLE) – A former manager of the Martinsville Chili’s has been charged with allegedly videotaping eight women changing clothes or using the bathroom in the local restaurant’s restroom. His fiancée found the videos on a home computer and called police.
40-year-old Justin Carl Behnke of Indianapolis has been charged with 15 felony counts of voyeurism.
Man Admits to Videotaping Men in Bathroom 50 Times
CORALVILLE, Iowa – A Johnson County man is accused of secretly videotaping dozens of men using the restroom at a Coralville business.
A victim came forward to police Sunday morning saying he was using a stall at Scheels Sporting Goods at Coral Ridge Mall when he saw a man take a photo of him.
Ex-firefighter accused of videotaping girls in bathroom offered plea deal
LYNDHURST – The former fire captain and youth football coach accused of videotaping teen girls as they used his bathroom pleaded guilty Thursday to fourth-degree invasion of privacy, according to northjersey.com.
Sikeston YMCA employee arrested after videotaping in locker room
SIKESTON, MO – A 19-year-old Sikeston man was arrested after allegedly videotaping at least three people in the YMCA men’s locker room.
Earl Madison, a four-year, part-time employee of the YMCA of Southeast Missouri, is facing three counts of invasion of privacy in the first degree, according to the Sikeston Department of Safety.
Edmond man arrested for recording child in shower
LOGAN COUNTY, Okla. – A man, 43-year-old James Curt Rose, sits behind bars for video-taping a 13-year-old taking a shower.
According to court documents, the child said she saw a hole cut in a sleeve hanging in the bathroom.
When she looked closer, she could see a phone in the sleeve that was recording.
UI Police Locate Suspect Videotaping in Women’s Shower
IOWA CITY, Iowa – UI Police Tuesday night said they had located the person of interest in connection with a man videotaping a woman while she was showering in a residence hall.
Former coach placed cameras in athletic rooms, bathroom
MARSHALL COUNTY, AL – David Barrow, the former Guntersville girls’ soccer coach who pleaded guilty to human trafficking charges in Madison County, appeared in a Marshall County courtroom on Monday to enter a plea on charges of producing porn with minors.
Barrow pleaded guilty to two counts of that offense around 10:30 a.m. He was sentenced to serve 30 years in prison.
Man Accused of Peeping in Women’s Restroom Also Faces Child Porn Charges
A Pennsylvania man who was arrested for taking photos of a 10-year-old girl in a public restroom has now also been hit with child porn charges, police report.
Quarryville, PA, resident James Thomas Shoemaker, 19, was arrested last week when he was found hiding in a stall of the woman’s bathroom in the Sheetz store on Manheim Pike. Police said he was taking images of young girls on his cell phone.
Man Arrested After Allegedly Filming at Least 7 People in Brea Starbucks Bathroom
A man has been arrested after allegedly placing a hidden camera in a Starbucks bathroom in Brea, and recording at least seven adults, police said Tuesday.
The arrest of Melcher Carrilloalvarado, a 44-year-old La Habra resident, was announced a day after police said a woman had found the camera in a unisex restroom at a Starbucks located at 101 West Imperial Hwy.
With all these stories, it is also apropos to ask just how many Americans these transgender polices would affect. By even the most generous estimations only .3 percent of the nation claims to be transgender. So, in the end, these extreme policies of bending over backwards for people who claim to be transgender are designed for less than half of one percent of Americans.
You know, I hadnt thought of that. And that is a definite real possibility. This is why most parents don't let their children use the bathroom alone until they are in their mid teens. This doesn't protect women who might be targeted by perverts posing as something they aren't. Which is a shame. This will only stop being an issue when all businesses build private restrooms like many convenience stores. This of course, isn't feasible for big businesses like Target, Walmart and other large businesses that requite 5 or 6 stalls for both men and women.
What thought are lurking in people's minds, only they and God know that. But most public bathrooms are also guarded by store security, and I personally believe society is slowly moving towards unisex bathrooms with locked stalls......
What about children in elementary school, parents not there so hey, who's to stop an older visitor in the school from using an opposite sex bathroom then claiming to be transgender if he/she gets caught in there? If Trump didn't get rid of Obama's Transgender Mandate for Schools they would eventually have to issue transgender IDs to transgenders as proof of their sex change if they want to use an opposite sex to their biological sex bathroom just so transgenders don't get prosecuted as perverts. But that would be unfairly singling out trans genders so then everybody would need a sex ID to prove they are the sex of which bathroom they use. This can be the slippery slope Obama's Transgender Mandate for Schools would lead to which would mean more government control over your life, even what bathroom you can use! and Trump rightfully got rid of it.
For those who have traveled abroad, we know unisex bathrooms are common. Here, they want people to use the gender they were born. The problem is many transgender men and transgender women look exactly opposite of their birth gender. Which defeats the purpose of their argument.
The next question should be, when are they going to bring in the Genitalia Gestapo to verify who is in what bathroom?
Exactly, and that is why there shouldn't be a mandate to allow transgenders to use bathrooms opposite of their biological sex. BTW ever hear of voyeurism? Because unisex bathrooms are common abroad doesn't mean anyione would want them here. The Data Suggests Unisex Bathrooms Are A Bonanza To Male Perverts
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/201 … ge-campus/
GENDER-NEUTRAL BATHROOMS LEAD TO PERVERTS FILMING NAKED WOMEN No surprise there!
Lol! Then the Gestapo will get their share of being attacked called perverts!
In this conversation it seems the transgressions of a very small minority are being used as an excuse to label most men as suspicious perverts. Well, the majority of us are not. Even in a unisex facility we would be there to perform a natural and normal bodily function and give everyone else present the respect we would want for ourselves.
So get with it everyone. Get comfortable with matters of sex. Discuss the subject openly and freely without building up a guilt complex. It's only problematic when you hide behind fear and hypocracy.
If you "need to go," go - and don't be afraid of ignorance. The excretary function is not to be confused with the sexual function, at least not to us normal people.
So as long as men aren't going to physically harm me, I should be good with stripping and showering in front of them.
Who has suggested that you do so? I have no idea what goes on (or comes off!) in female facilities in your country. I have never ever used female facilities. If a transgender person, having acquired the female gender, were to use a male facility, she would cause, and be subjected to, a lot of strife. If she is barred from the female facility, what is she to do? Wet her self? Go outside and do it in public? - then get arrested? Then be subject to humiliation and ridicule at police station?
If a transvestite, i.e., a male who is merely cross-dressing, were to enter the female facility with ulterior motives, I am sure he would get more than he bargained for from a bunch of offended women!
What is all this fuss about?
The fuss is that the bathroom laws which are being passed allow any male who claims to be a woman access to women's facilities. The definition of "woman" has been watered down to the point that self declaration is all that is required to be a woman. Men who have raped women are even being housed with women in women's prisons.
When a man dresses in stereotypical women's clothing, grows his hair long, takes estrogen and gets a boob job, he is still a man. There is no such thing as changing one's sex. Men who claim to be women are still men.
Men can use men's facilities, or trans people can fight for a third set of facilities.
Could you please cite any sources for the men being housed in a women's prison facility? It has long been an issue with transgendered women in prison, where they are still housed with men.
Here is just one example. I can find others easily, if you like.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local … 53039.html
From the article:
"The Plaintiffs have been forced to share intimate facilities with men, who allege they are women,” the Feb. 15 complaint states. “These men openly express their sexual desire for the women inmates, at times, in the showers, and bathrooms, while women are naked or partially clothed."
“The men expose themselves, intentionally, for their own sexual gratification, causing the Plaintiffs to suffer disgust, embarrassment, humiliation, stress, degradation, fear and loss of dignity.”
Ok.....so a transgender person, living the life of a man yet born female, who dresses as much as possible in masculine style clothing is, you think, no risk to any straight woman in the bathroom? Yet a transgender woman who was born male, who has had transition surgery, and has no sexual interest in other women....she presents a considerable risk?
Are you that incapable of recognising a transvestite male? He remains a man and, potentially but not necessarily, might be there to have his way with or perve at other women. Very different from a transgender person.
This is all theoretical, isn't t? You don't have first hand experiencing such happenings? Maybe you have led a somewhat sheltered life at home (and obviously a wonderful mother and chef to your family judging from your numerous hubs), with only heresay to guide your opinion about anyone "acting out of the ordinary." Well, transsexual persons are entitled to the same and equal respect as anyone else. If you think they should be austracised just because a few ill-informed individuals feel they are under threat, then I for one am firmly on the side of transgender people.
But then you don't have to worry anyway. Just stay away from public places and your safety is pretty well guaranteed.
Approximately 85% of transgender men who identify as women do not undergo any sort of surgery -- they are fully intact males. Men commit 98% of sexual assaults. Men who identify as women commit crimes at the same rate as typical men. Many, many of them absolutely are sexually attracted to women; statistics I found showed only 23% of men who identified as women are exclusively attracted to men, while 29% say they are "lesbian" (attracted to women) and 31% say bisexual; those who claim to be lesbians harass actual lesbians who do not want to date them and do not want to have intercourse with their "female penises."
"Bathroom laws" give any of the men in the photo above unrestricted access to women's facilities. Fully intact adult males are crashing women's homeless/domestic violence shelters and sexually assaulting or sexually harassing women -- men who should not even be allowed through the doors, but now have a legal right to share bedrooms with vulnerable women. Two women in women-only shelters in Canada were raped by a man who declared himself to be a woman. Teen boys are sexually harassing girls in high school locker rooms, but the boys cannot be removed from girls' locker rooms because they have self-declared to be girls, and this gives them legal, unrestricted access
All it takes is a man making a self declaration to be a woman, and they are given legal access to women-only spaces. This is the problem with these laws. Any man can claim to be a woman.
You are making a lot of assumptions about me and about men who identify as women.
edit: Calling a man a man and requiring him to stay out of women's private showering, dressing and sleeping facilities is not ostracizing him.
So jonny, "But then you don't have to worry anyway. Just stay away from public places and your safety is pretty well guaranteed." Really? I doubt you'd say that to atheists who don't want religion displayed in a public place would you? You think it's ok to enable perverts to pose as women in government-run facility bathrooms but a religious person better not demonstrate his religion anywhere in a government-run facility? Sounds hypocritical and anti woman to me.
Right. Men's rights activists love these bathroom laws because the laws are basically helping to limit women to staying home and out of public spaces. Women fought for sex-segregated places to shower, dress and use the bathroom because they wanted to attend college, open their own businesses, hold jobs and otherwise participate in public life.
edit: And don't you just love how Jonny is telling me I don't know anything about this issue because I am a sheltered mom who only stays at home and cooks meals?
So who cares if once in a while a pervert slips in? There are probably way more perverts in the population than the .3 percent of the population that are transgender (a generous estimate), so by your reasoning if we don't need to worry about perverts why should we bend over to accommodate transgenders?
Even if a man is not a pervert, I still don't want to undress in front of him and share a shower with him. Nor should my teen daughter be forced to share a hotel room with a teen boy on an overnight school trip. And my invalid grandmother should not be expected share a hospital room with a man -- the fact that the man is not a pervert and not violent doesn't matter.
This is not an unreasonable position to take. It is not hateful. It is not bigotry.
I totally agree but I was replying to Jonny who seems to think because perverts aren't lurking behind every corner it's ok to make it easier for them to prey on girls in bathrooms or showers. I suppose he's all for taking in unvetable Syrian refugees even though there have already been terrorist attacks from same even though "it seems the transgressions of a very small minority are being used as an excuse to label" refugees as suspicious terrorists. Just demonstrating how insane his reasoning is. The possibility of even one more avoidable transgression is not acceptable as far as refugees goes as well as perverts.
Part (only part) of the problem with these so-called bathroom bills is that they typically also apply to locker rooms, shower facilities, dressing rooms, changing rooms, hospital rooms, women's shelters, dormitories, and even hotel rooms during school field trips.
Girls in middle school and high school should not be made to undress and shower with males. This is sexual abuse. The same applies to college women who choose to live in all-female dorms. We are teaching girls and young women that following their instinct for bodily privacy is bigotry. We are teaching girls that if men want to see them naked and in the shower, they should comply or else they are hateful. We are teaching girls they should never question why a man is in the bathroom, locker room, shower facility or dressing room with them. We are grooming them to become victims of sexual abuse.
Women and girls should not have to shower or bunk with men.
Additionally, regarding bathrooms, not all bathrooms have stall doors. Schools with high populations of troubled kids often remove stall doors to cut down on bad behavior or criminal activity. Poor school districts cannot always afford to keep bathroom doors in good repair.
Except that a desire for bodily privacy is not an instinct - one has only to observe smaller children to find this. That so-called "instinct" is taught, and if we didn't teach it we likely wouldn't have near the sexual perversions we see today.
We've been through this before. Without a physical examination, hormone test, chromosome analysis and a verbal interview it is not possible to categorically determine someone's biological sex.
For example, this is Aydian Dowling. He is a transgender man and a model.
His biological sex assigned at birth was female.
Please explain how forcing Aydian to use the women's bathroom helps resolve the issues you mention.
Thank you for posting this. This is exactly the point. If people are out and about, and they look like this, which is just like any other man, and he has to go in the women's room, he is going to be subjected to all kinds of harassment if not worse, as well as law enforcement issues. The same goes for transgender women in the men's room. Where are they supposed to go, if legally they have to use the restroom of their "birth sex?"
It is a different situation when females choose to undress with males. I don't know if Dowling showers with men or not, exposing her genitalia. If she does, it is her choice to do so. Men are generally not threatened by females in their private spaces. Historically, men were fine with women sharing their bathrooms and bathing areas. It was women who wanted to be separate from men. Women fought for sex-segregated facilities, for their privacy, modesty, safety and dignity.
But Dowling's situation is different than most other women. Typical women like me are faced with the opposite situation: men in women's private spaces -- men who obviously are men. Great for Dowling that she doesn't mind encountering men in men's public restrooms and gym locker rooms, and that men don't mind encountering her in their private facilities. But most women certainly do mind encountering guys like these men below, who are demanding to be allowed unrestricted access to women's facilities. I don't want to change clothes with these guys. I do not want to shower with these guys. I do not want to tend to toileting needs with one of these guys in the next stall. This is not unreasonable on my part.
1. Aydian Dowling's pronouns are "he", "him" and "his" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcCwegFCu38)*. Now you know that, if you continue to use the female pronoun, it indicates that you just have a problem with the existence of transgender people. I hate to break it to you, but referring to Aydian as "she" against his wishes, won't stop him, or other transgender people, existing. It will, however, make you look disrespectful, petty and narrow-minded.
2. You seem to be assuming that all transgender men have female genitalia. That's not the case. Transgender men can undergo gender reassignment surgery, so some have a penis. Again, please explain how it's helpful to force a transgender man in that situation to use the women's bathroom.
In terms of the security issue. The issue is not transgender people. The issue is men who want to spy on women.
3. The photos you posted don't help your case. Without a full medical examination, chromosome and hormone analysis, and a personal conversation, you cannot know for certain whether anyone in those photos is biologically male or female. Here's another example:
In terms of Chromosomes, all the women in that photo are males. They are biologically male because of a condition called androgen insensitivity syndrome.
In terms of gender, all the women in that photo identify as female*.
Again, please explain how it's helpful to force these women to use the men's bathroom. Also explain how it's helpful to refer to any of these women as "he".
I used Aydian Dowling's image because he is a vocal advocate for transgender people and is happy for his image and story to be shared with the public for the purposes of educating people about transgender issues: https://www.instagram.com/alionsfear/
I used the image of those women because all the women in it expressed a desire to de-stigmatize their condition (androgen insensitivity syndrome) by taking a photo without hiding their faces, and placing it in the public domain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Orchids01.JPG
The women in the photo you posted are not transgender. They are intersex.
From the AISSG (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome Support Group) website:
Intersexuality is not the same as a transsexuality (gender dysphoria) and is not a transgender state. Neither of the latter terms is one that we recognise as belonging in any general discussion of intersex. We are not happy with the recent tendency of some trans groups/people to promote transgender as an umbrella term to encompass, for example, transsexuality, transvestitism and intersex. We object to other organisations/individuals putting us in categories without consulting us, especially categories that imply that interexed people, of necessity, have gender identity issues. See the paper by Mazur et al cited at foot of this page.
The problems this causes...
We are constantly trying to get away from the idea that intersex is necessarily to do with gender identity, a notion that others (including the press/media) like to impose on us. Moreover, the prefix trans- infers a "moving across", and although a few people with intersex conditions may choose to change their gender role, the vast majority never "go" anywhere in terms of their sex or their gender, but are happy to stay in the status in which they grew up.
XY females may suffer various problems on finding out their diagnosis. Problems such as:
anger at secrecy and paternalism (withholding of diagnostic information)
shame and stigma
an existential type of identity crisis
difficulty grasping how this biological phenomenon can come about
grief at being denied fertility and rites of passage (e.g. lack of menstruation)
a feeling of freakishness and isolation compared to their peers
a fear that others might see them as 'male'
a concern regarding their ability to function in a relationship (e.g. vaginal hypoplasia)
the burden of keeping a secret, or uncertainty over who to tell and how
a retreat from medical care leading to failure to take HRT with a risk of osteoporosis
These are the issues that are of major concern to most of our members; and none of these necessarily means that their inner sense of gender identity is compromised.
This trend towards 'muscling in' on intersex issues seems to be a initiative on the part of certain politically-minded people in the 'trans' community, to bring intersex under their banner (for whatever reason - it lends more credibility to their cause?) or even to actively interfere in clinical issues relating to intersex. See Announcements for an account of the problems we had in 2000 with a gender dysphoria/transsexual organisation trying to interfere in protocols for 'gender reinforcement' surgery in intersexed infants with so-called genital ambiguity.
Intersex is an entirely separate issue from trans. Another misdirection from militant trans activists.
I know they are not transgender women. That's why I said: "In terms of Chromosomes, all the women in that photo are males. They are biologically male because of a condition called androgen insensitivity syndrome".
The point I was making is that you cannot always know what someone's biological sex is just by looking at them, as the images I posted illustrate, which makes biology an unhelpful criteria for deciding who uses which bathroom.
By that standard those intersex women would be required to use the men's bathroom if their biology was more male than female, or a special "intersex" bathroom if their biology was both male and female.
And just as not all intersex people have gender identity issues, not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria, which is "not inherent in the cross-gender identity; rather, it is related to social rejection and discrimination suffered by the individual".
Which I read as, sometimes the stereotypes about what "male" and "female" should look like are what cause people issues, not always the cross gender identity.
It's been a minute since I have been to a hospital for a stay but don't a lot of hospitals have women and men share rooms together.....and I am pretty sure that many nursing homes have people of different genders staying together..........I guess I just figured that those things that happen toward twilight years were similar to those that happen during the first year since babies of both genders are together...but correct me if I'm wrong....
I was hospitalized in November and the other bed in the room was a male patient.
I think people are failing to remember that this is not a new issue. There have always been transgender people. They have always used the bathroom. If you've ever used public restrooms, there's a good chance you've shared it with a person t some point. Most people just want to go in and do their business and leave.
Not until recently has it been an issue... when someone decided a transgender woman should use the men's room because she had been born a man. Now, we have even have women who people think look too masculine but are legitimately female, being attacked and harassed, even by LEOs for no reason. No one should have to show ID to use the bathroom.
I am really tired of hearing about how people just need to go into the bathroom to do their business, because this issue extends way beyond that. We are passing laws that are barring abuse shelters for women from keeping men out. We are passing laws that are barring public school officials from alerting parents that their minor girls children will be sharing a hotel room with a boy. We are passing laws that are putting teen boys in locker rooms with girls. Girls in Minnesota and Illinois are having to sue to get a private place to undress and be free from sexual harassment by boys.
This goes way beyond bathrooms and peeing.
The man below is currently living in a homeless shelter for women. He is using valuable resources earmarked for women. The homeless shelter cannot remove him because he claims to be a woman.
Personally I find it unomfertable unlest the light are off but thats my openion
As an apparently fragile female-person I am far more worried about men who are controlling and callous than transgender people. I have been assaulted by cis-men, several times in my lifetime, once in a bathroom, but never by a transgender person. Funny how people who match the profile of the most dangerous types in our society (male citizens) are never targeted--not that I support that kind of stereotyping either.
And my dinner was some very niche cerviche, french bread, and a glass of wine.
My problem is with males who are bullying females, demanding access to women's private facilities. Some of them are transgender, some of them are not. Males are males, whether they are transgender or not. I am not singling out transgender people. I simply don't want males of any flavor in spaces reserved for the privacy, safety, modesty and dignity of women and girls.
Interestingly, I searched for incidences of transgender males being assaulted in men's facilities, and I couldn't find any. But there are numerous incidences of transgender males being assaulted in women's facilities. It seems men see the transgender male go into the women's room, and feeling protective, men follow the transgender male in to throw him out, and the transgender person is often assaulted at this point. It seems that perhaps it is safer for males who present as women to use men's facilities. The man below seems to think so. He identifies as transgender but does not claim to be a woman. According to his blog, he uses men's facilities exclusively and says he has never been bothered by other men.
I am in my late 50s and have been living as a woman for most of my life and I agree with SmartAndFun that today's trans activism has taken a turn for the bizarre. A biological male cannot simply declare that he feels like a female and demand access to women's spaces. For a biological male to be considered a woman he needs to literally "transform" into a woman. A man like Daniel Muscato is making a mockery of both women and transpeople.
As to the bathroom issue, transpeople should use the bathroom that corresponds to the gender that a majority of people would identify them as. A biological male in a state of transition between genders who people would identify as a man should use the men's room. It is not right to make a bunch of women feel uncomfortable to make one person happy. When I was transitioning, I used the men's room, and I was never assaulted or verbally attacked by other men in the men's room. I would not have dreamed of using women's facilities until I looked like a woman. Even today, I still wear sunglasses in public restrooms to avoid problems. I don't feel burdened or like a second-class citizen because of it. I made the choice to live this way.
Militant trans activists who argue that passing is irrelevant and only "feelings" matter are living in a fantasy world that ignores biological realities, and more importantly they do not represent most transpeople that I know, who put a great deal of effort into flying under the radar and not making waves. I find this very misogynistic and also damaging to normal transpeople like myself who do not want to draw attention to ourselves.
Even after living as a woman for most of my life I do not claim to be a female on the basis of "feeling" like one. I only know that I feel like myself and have always had a desire to live as a woman. If a man has a strong desire to live as a woman, he must make every effort to pass as one. How can a person like Daniel Muscato claim to feel like a woman with male pattern baldness and facial hair? It is laughable and a sad commentary on today's hyper-politically correct culture that people indulge him in this charade. If he does not have enough money to afford the expenses of physical transition, he should get a real job and save up enough to do so. If it means he has to live as a man for a while, that's just the way it is.
I have often been accused of being a self-hating transwoman for my views, or accused of having "passing privilege." Passing is not a privilege, it is something that requires time, effort, and yes, money, and is something that must be accomplished before a biological male can demand that society regard him as a woman.
The asinine and rude responses to SmartAndFun are one of the reasons why I do not write about trans issues on HubPages or make it known that I am a transperson with my so-called politically incorrect views.
To people like Don W and Johnny who feel the need to "correct" what they deem to be someone's "incorrect" opinions on trans issues, keep in mind that there are many transwomen like me who agree with SmartAndFun but are bullied into silence.
I'm glad you were not attacked or assaulted in the bathroom while you were transitioning. Sadly, according to plenty of studies, that's the exception not the rule. Transgender women in particular are at greater risk of violence when having to use men's bathrooms than others.
I'd rather have 100 people be embarrassed about a transgender woman using the women's bathroom, than have 1 transgender woman killed or beaten because she had to use the men's.
It's a shame you don't feel able to freely express your views. I don't think associating me with people who bully you is fair though.
I don't see other people's opinion on this subject as "correct" or "incorrect". I think the view that sex and gender are binary, as opposed to a spectrum, is unhelpful. I think the idea of using biology as the criteria for deciding who uses which bathroom, is unhelpful. And I think the refusal to respect people's choice of pronoun is petty and narrow minded. I believe those are reasonable opinions to hold and reasonable opinions to express.
Appearance is better than biology but still problematic. A lesbian woman was forced out of a woman's toilet by police because she looked like a man: http://jezebel.com/police-refuse-to-bel … 1773733431
I fail to see how that's helpful to anyone.
Thank you, duckduckmoose for your reply. Being a woman is a biological state. There is no such thing as "feeling" like a woman. How do we know that any two women have the same inner felling? We can't know that.
No amount of dresses or makeup make a male into a woman. Many women hate dresses and makeup. Does that make them men? Of course not.
I appreciate that you accept that you are a male who presents himself in public in a manner that fits society's current stereotypical appearance of women rather than the stereotypical appearance of a man. I appreciate that you are living your life as you please and wearing the clothing that you like, and yes, even using women's facilities, without causing harm or calling attention to yourself. This system/scenario has worked for many years but now that anyone can claim to be a woman and *poof!* they are one, women are put in a dangerous position by men like those in the collage photo I posted earlier.
Here's what the lovely Danielle Muscato posted on Twitter for International Women's Day a couple of weeks ago (black-boxed for language):
As you can see, it received more than 500 likes. Women are in big trouble.
We need bathroom cops who check gender before people enter bathrooms to make sure this all gets enforced.
We need men who look like men to use the men's room, regardless of what gender they happen to "feel" like on that day.
What are girls supposed to do when a fully intact male is allowed to compete against them in high school track? This boy is only a freshman, is only 15, and is already able to break state records in girls track. He has four years to decimate the girls' records in this state (Connecticut). Four years to put up male records in girls track, records which will stand for who knows how long before actual girls are able to break them (if ever).
He is being allowed to compete on the girls team simply because he declared himself to be a girl. According to the article, he has not undergone any treatments to feminize his body. The girls on his team and the girls from other schools he competes against are being told that their right to and desire for fair play doesn't matter. What is most important is what the boy wants.
Why is this acceptable?
http://www.courant.com/sports/high-scho … story.html
This is what I mean when I say that this issue goes way beyond "just need to pee." There are so many negative consequences attached to the current "anyone who says they are a woman is a woman" law. Society is applauding men who step on women to get what they want, and erode the progress women have made in becoming better than second-class citizens. These men are "stunning and brave," and if women don't like it they are hateful bigots.
I don't know about "applauding men who step on women to get what they want", and can't agree at all that it will "erode the progress women have made in becoming better than second-class citizens" there are school girls competing in boys sports (wrestling, football) after all.
But no, boys and men should not be playing girls sports regardless of what they see their gender as.
I agree. I'm so glad someone brought this up. I read an article the other day about a boy who is transgender (or do I call him a girl) who is on the girl's wrestling team and poised to win a state championship. It's ridiculous and grossly unfair.
In his case, and in his defense, he argued to wrestle with the boys. They will not let him. It makes no sense. He didn't want to wrestle girls, he himself said it wasn't fair. No matter what they do it isn't right. That's where the problem comes in.
by Sarah B 2 years ago
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