Michael Moore: Capitalism has proven it's failed

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emdiposted 15 years ago
Michael Moore says, capitalism has proved its failed. According to him, Wall Street took our money and made bets with it.
What is your view on this topic.

- A little cat (Emdi)
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  Home Girlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know what,honey,socialism failed even more,what's next? We need something in between, but what???? And somebody always takes your money if you let him do it. it's the law of human nature.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Regulation would be a good thing. Free enterprise and freedom in general are cool concepts, but not at the expense of responsibility or maturity. Megalomaniacs do not make a good ruling class.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Moore makes some very valid points, and then stuffs his foot in his mouth with his ego and need to make his own personal points. So this new documentary will be fraught with truth and personal interpretations, as usual. Too bad, really, because we do need to get to the truth of things in order to move forward positively.
  
  On the whole, I think this documentary can be a good thing, despite it potential flaws. Greed of the money-ed class does need to be reigned in. This may actually be a step toward that, in it's constipated way.
  
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Greed is good. Class-envy will get us nowhere. There is no moneyed class anyway. We spend too much time subdividing people into artificial classes for the purpose of creating political power.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then if I follow your 'reasoning,' you should have no problem with Michael Moore at all and rather enjoy him immensely. Unless there is some class envy involved...oh, I dunno.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He may even worship him.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Greed is good until it directly effects you, I take it. There is a money-ed class, no denying that. It's a fact.
  
  Artificial classes, perhaps. I don't begrudge anyone their wealth. That's NOT the point. Those with wealth who have helped me, mentored me, I'm very grateful for. However, greedy wealth will mow you and I and anyone in the path down. I don't see how that's a good thing at all.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel, are only wealthy greedy?
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good point Misha, poor are also greedy.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with you. I think we need to define 'greed'.
  
  The concept of a money-ed class still escapes me. A money-ed family may choose to live parsimoniously or extravagantly. A middle-class family can borrow themselves into bankruptcy. What defines this class?
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do make a good point about "class". It's not a fair assessment, really, but it's a way for us to describe ourselves compared to another's financial standing, in this case. So I have to agree with you that class is not a good terminology.
  
  Going further with your thought, there are poor who will always be poor because it's the only mentality they know. And regardless of how much they have, they will still consider themselves poor. So the idea of middle-class bankruptcy could apply. And of course, the reverse is true as well.
  
  I think, however, that Moore's "mock-u-mentary" may serve some good purposes, although as with all of his work, should be taken more for it's potential entertainment value than cold, hard fact. It will stimulate discussion, and it may bring awareness with a few possible good answers. That's what I'm hoping.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Documentary is good thing but socialistic propaganda is different.
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  arrrgonautposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Michael Moore is a film maker first. His role as a social commentator comes second to telling a story that will bring people to the theaters. He has proven in the past that making a fire-spiting documentary comes before telling the truth. And that is because more selfrightous anger brings more people into theaters = more money. (sounds a little like capitalism, right?)
  
  As for capitalism failing us, capitalism is supposed to be the system that allows individuals to gain power through hardwork and entrepreneurship. Too bad, that's not how it works in a country where a few large businesses are able to choke out all competition. Do I believe capitialism is a failed system? No. But we currently have a form of capitalism businesses in some sectors are so large that they no longer believe they are accountable to their customers.
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  hinckles komaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It hasn't failed at all on the contrary very successful in the scheme of things.... stealing money is the whole point of it.
  
  Capitalism can mean many things and wall street is a part of capitalism as a whole. i think wall street is a brilliant idea made to promote capitalism. capitalism is only expanding and wall street just got its biggest boost ever to control and guide mass towards a new ideas and formations of those ideas within the capitalistic bellies. And Michael Moore just got richer lol
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  :Our leadership is a joke, they allow WALL STREET and any other big business whom lobby to put money in their pocket. With that said I believe capitalism is alive and well.
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah yes, Michael Moore, master of leaving the truth on the cutting room floor.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you believe he ever shot the truth?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He may have shot the truth, but what comes out of his editing booth has little to do with reality. There's all sorts of exposes out there calling him out on his lies. I can't believe people still watch his crap.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can't believe people watch his crap? You argue with those same people everyday!
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know, it's hard being one of the few who see reality for what it is. Sometimes you get to feeling like the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats better than the way I would put it!
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My daddy was from Alabama, but I've had me some book larnin'.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're smart
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I liked Michael Moore when he made "Roger and Me". after that, i stopped liking him...
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did you know he got an interview with Roger and covered it up?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I didn't know that. My most vivid memory of the 'film' is the scene with the rabbit.
  
  Back then, Mr. Moore was seen as a poor hard-working voice-of-the-people type guy who only wanted to stand up for the unfortunate citizens of Flint.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, it just goes to show that what "everyone" knows isn't what they know. Moore has told intimates that he can make his movies say whatever he wants them to say, he creates truth. In another age he'd have been cousin to P.T. Barnum.
  
  I love how people say, but he opens a dialogue. Opening a dialogue for the sake of talking is useless, especially when the conclusions you reach after said conversation is wrong.
  
  Even wonder why Cuba keeps the families of the doctors they send abroad? Or why doctors in Cuba will work as cab drivers before they work as doctors? Everything is not well that communist utopia.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So if you don't change your mind then it wasn't worth discussing it anyway, right?
  
  Quod erat demonstrandum.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No you just have an underdeveloped sense of natural philosophy.
  
  Cute. Quoting Latin doesn't make you look smarter, just more pretentious. As for demonstrating: http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/publisher … d20,0.html
  
  http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=le … 0608230820
  
  Why would doctors defect from Cuba if given the chance? Could it be that they only make the equivalent of $25 a month which isn't nearly enough to survive on, much less buy things you want also? Even when they do travel abroad and make up to 8 times what they would in Cuba, they still defect. Ever wonder why?
  
  The only reason the Cubans were able to keep their system tottering along was because they did, prior to Castro, have one of the highest doctor to patient ratios in Latin America. In addition they were the recipient of massive aid from the Soviet Union. It's funny to note that while the USSR went defunct and stopped giving aid to Cuba, Cuba now gives aid to other communist nations to keep the whole tottering system going just a little bit longer. In the end, they'll fail just as the USSR did. Venezuela will not be far behind.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are preaching to the choir about Cuba. It's obvious that the US has a much, much higher standard of living and respect for liberty than Cuba. No one's emigrating the US for Cuba.
  
  You are missing the point of Moore's inclusion of Cuba in Sicko. If a corrupt, poor, draconian dictatorship can manage to give some sort of health care to its citizens -- and achieve life expectancies virtually identical to ours -- why can't we?
  
  You don't have to endorse a country's entire system to learn from certain aspects of it. I'm not sure why some people use that as an excuse to be so insular.
  
  The attitude that we have absolutely nothing to learn whatsoever from any other country on the planet is a slap in the face to the American tradition of innovation, and is most prevalent in the lowest-innovation, and thus poorest, parts of this country (unsurprisingly).
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because they can't, not really. They have leveraged their strengths when it comes to healthcare, but the system is starting to show it's age. I'm not so much concerned with providing healthcare for free as I am increasing people's access to healthcare. Those are two very different ideas.
  
  It all comes down to economics. If the cost of a thing is too high, you must allow the supply to increase in order to meet what is an obvious demand for healthcare. Yet there are many ways in this country in which we limit the supply of healthcare providers. From licensing requirements to medical schools limiting the number of students they'll accept each year, everything is structured so that we'll have a limited number of practicing doctors. This has the effect of raising the salary of doctors. Which is why you never see it discussed. It's the dirty little secret of the AMA and they pressure legislators so that discussion of that secret never makes it to the table.
  
  But for all their manipulation, you're starting to see the market react to the restricted supply of doctors. Nurse Practitioners and Physician's Assistants are more and more encroaching on what has traditionally been the prerogative of doctors. Long term, this will lower General Practitioner costs and even longer term will dilute the power of the AMA. After all we only have about 600,000 doctors in this country. Once the NP's and PA's get enough numbers, they'll start encroaching even more on traditional doctors prerogatives.
  
  Oh by the way, in 1900 we only had about 500,000 doctors in the country and today we have 600,000. Yet in that time our population has tripled. Is it any wonder healthcare costs have exploded?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Check his bank account.
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  Will Apseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have any reputable source for an actual quote from Michael Moore for this? Or is this an interpretation of what you think he is saying?
  
  I'm sure no self-respecting hubber would want to cloud the waters of debate with misinformation.
  
  I googled and found nothing close to a quote.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I heard him say the "bets" phrase either on Leno or on TV promos for the new movie. You won't find audio clips using Google, but that doesn't prove they don't exist.
  
  May I be a reputable source?
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  Will Apseposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok I'll buy the bets phrase and many economists wouldn't disagree with that, especially of the salt water variety who are not convinced that markets are perfect or the decisions of investors are especially rational. But it's hardly the hub of the original quote.
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torimariposted 15 years ago
It's Michael Moore. Even I, a liberal, sometimes have a hard time taking him seriously.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And this is quite true, too.
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that Michael has brought so really good issues to the table. I believe that he's a real tropper for us.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  An intelligent young woman, hooray!
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nicompposted 15 years ago
What a hoot. Moore has employees, a production company, a web site with an online store, his stuff sells on Amazon.com, and he makes appearances on commercial television to plug his movies.

He (his foundation) owned stock in major corporations such as Haliburton and Lily.

He was a cute little fuzzball when he made Roger and Me (I worked for GM at the time and I thought it was funny). These days he's a prime example of the liberal mindset. He thinks he knows better than the rest of us.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Mindset-of- … Impact-You
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Madame Xposted 15 years ago
Oh, you mean he uses the capitalist system to make money?

Who'd a thought . . .
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Much money. How many of us have their own foundation?
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He has 170 million.
  Mike Moore does not see than socialism lasted in Europe about 70 years. In my country about 40 years. In US Capitalism lasted 200 years.
  
  What about capitalistic socialism we are now? It is already crumbling.
  Socialism is taking money from others and give who do not work. But it is only theory. Money ate taking from the people they get equally poor and system and dictator get rich.
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Aya Katzposted 15 years ago
The problem might be that he bites the hand that feeds him.
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The way of a capitalist.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Michael Moore has become a parody of himself. I enjoy his style of mockumentary, but feel he's just repeating himself now.
If anyone takes MM (him, not moi) seriously rather than just pot-stirring entertainment, you're missing his point.

The weight loss looks good on him, tho! MM (the hubber, not the mockumentary maker)
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is the left-wing version of Glenn Beck...
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Glen Beck has best seller book. Why don't you?
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You don't even recognize that Beck is not a right winger. He gives you facts and came down on Bush (still does). He is a libertarian. I guess you don't watch him to know this.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is a curious mixture of libertarian and Dixiecrat (yes, I am fully aware of how paradoxical that sounds - and it is) that is today's Republican party. This is the reason he's so popular among that crowd.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Good morning, Nicomp. I must digress from the capitalism is dead/Michael Moore discussion for a brief minute.
Your new avatar is -- intriguing. Would you care to explain?
I can't stop staring and it's distracting me from my arguments . LOL!
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I was inspired by Hal: http://hubpages.com/profile/Hal+Licino
  
  I am neophyte photoshopper.
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My hope is that person like us can come together and organize something for us. I'ts hard for a person whom has alot to speak with understanding on how life is a person whom has little. They don't understand the struggle and hardships we have and they don't care. It's as if they can't wait to get in a position so they can look down on as many people as they can. The biggest problem I see in the way the political process works is (THE GOOD-OLD BOY SYSTEM). You know the one where Bush brings in Bush Jr., Reggie brings in Reg Jr. and so on. The system that allows the Mayors daughter to go free after an intoxication man slaughter were your son or daughter would be subject to the laws of the land in such an case.
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Davinagirl3posted 15 years ago
It's always the nuttiest one in the bunch that get's the most attention. That is true for liberals and conservatives. I don't agree with alot of what Moore touts, but "Sicko" was a great movie.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is how he gets rich people are believing him and watching his j**k.
  Best medicine in Cuba. Give me a break.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No it's true! Look at how well Castro is doing!
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Uhmmm
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lamparposted 15 years ago
Michael Moore need to consult Jenny Craig for how to live healthy , before he think capitalist need to prove to us it had failed again. The real world is full of complexity rather than just a simple economy system picture appear in a big screen imagine by a porky.
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  Daniel Carterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's a bit shallow don't you think?
  Moore has lost about 60 lbs recently. He is a complex person, looking at a complex world. I disagree with him a lot. But I think he makes some valid points.
  
  With all due respect, I have no idea why you believe one's appearance and one's weight justify snap judgments and potshots.
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Kidgasposted 15 years ago
I wonder what Michael Moore's net worth is?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I suspect that technically he's virtually a pauper, living off the good will engendered by his movies. His foundation, on the other hand...
  
  This question brings to mind the Kennedy Family fortune. Much of it is sheltered offshore, even as Teddy railed against the Evil Rich not paying enough taxes. Mr. Moore would probably agree.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Michael Moore is probably very wealthy. This might come as a surprise to you, but there are many wealthy who do not put their personal wealth at the top of their list of priorities. Many vote for and support liberal causes. As they say, you can't take it with you. Many people want to leave a legacy beyond a really big house and a bunch of cars.
  
  As for the Kennedy family fortune: what proof do you have that "much of it is sheltered offshore"?
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  Kidgasposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I am not surprised as to the good will of many wealthy individuals. Furthermore, many causes are indeed noble and just. What I find ironic is that Michael Moore has benefitted greatly from capitalism. Just fascinated by the irony.
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  zadrobiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. I hope it will be a good movie, but the movie is 'capitlizing' on the current economic conditions. He could have made a low budget documentary to teach people about the 'why' of the situation, but he didn't. However, this is what capitalism is and he shouldn't be looked down upon for making a movie (he isn't making us watch it and taking our money involuntarily).
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.amazon.com/Do-As-Say-Not-Hyp … geNumber=2
  
  http://thepoliticizer.com/2009/07/31/ja … d-goes-to/
  
  http://www.freedomsite.net/btrusts.htm
  
  http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- … -millions/
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the links - didn't know. Would be interested to see how he felt about closing IRS loopholes...
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livelongerposted 15 years ago
Well, you can certainly love something and criticize it harshly (our own country, for example). In fact, many of us think criticizing something and working towards its betterment than treating it with kid gloves and coddling it. (A general statement, not directed at you; I have no idea how you feel about any of this)
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  Kidgasposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with this statement.
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rhamsonposted 15 years ago
I think that the capitalist system served them very well. They capitalized on the weakness of the regulations and made tons of money. Then they capitalized on the junk stocks they created and made tons of money. Then they capitalized on the fall out of wall street through government loans and made tons of money. Now they will buy it all back at pennies on the dollar and make tons of money. Whats not to like about such a system. How can I sign up.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They've capitalized on your uninformed opinions. The credit market was over-regulated, not under-regulated. Barney Frank and Frank Raines obligated banks to make loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back. Raines reconfigured Fannie Mae with a program would allow consumers who were "a notch below what our current underwriting has required" to get home loans.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, this is rich! Really!
  
  The banks were obligated to make loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back? That's really amusing.
  
  There was a serious case of moral hazard with respect to the way mortgages were insured but there was no obligation. Please. The banks saw plenty of upside with virtually no downside and they went for it.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How does a government legislate morality?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not morality - moral hazard.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you purchased a house lately? The paperwork is voluminous. You can't possibly suggest that mortgagees are not given the opportunity to become fully informed.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The lenders, not the buyers.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  uh, duh! (Not directed at livelonger, either.)
  
  Banks see the upsides of many things. I worked for a bank in research. Interesting, I must say.
  
  And trust me, it wasn't just the poor and uninformed who were choosing 5% ARM loans in the heat of the market bubble. You should see the multi million dollar homes on the block here and all the legals concerning foreclosures, still, in the papers. lol A good 5 pages...whereas the employment section is 1/4 of a page.
  
  Eyes that are stuck shut will not be opened.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very true. Interestingly, apparently one of the growing default forms are among those who are "strategically defaulting" - high credit score people who simply walk away from their mortgage obligations because the 7-year stain on their credit store is better than the $100k+ loss they have to bear on their depreciated home.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Since my partner works as an architectural designer...high end...we know of a few developers who chose the option you relate here in the Phoenix/Sedona market.
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See it is not possible to legislate morality in secular set up. This is why our Founders left it to believers. One cannot legislate let say love. Or believe, be good... Those are genetically basic moral virtues.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And who profited. Regardless of any spin you wish to put on it they made millions of dollars and walked away with tons of money!
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thranaxposted 15 years ago
I can't wait to see Capitalism: A Love Story! It comes out Oct 2nd =\

~thranax~
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zadrobiposted 15 years ago
"Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman is an excellent book for the topic of capitalism. (It was a video series as well)
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Michael Moore is a moron. All he does is critcize and never sees good in anything America stands for. If it weren't for his liberal cronies he wouldn't be able to peddle his crap.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's a personal attack on Mr. Moore. Prepare to be banned.
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  Harvey Stelmanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does Moore not attack thode he chooses? Lets ban him from making movies!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He needs to be banned from the Buffet!
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I like him
  Make fun of me ya'll, its ok, I can take it
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is kinda up your alley. You are in college and at your age people have more emotion than knowledge.(man, I really hated saying that based on past expierences) Me too, I was a young liberal too. I took that side until I realized that the people I idolized didn't care who they hurt as long as they realized their agenda.
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I said I liked him. I didn't say I idolized the man. Not sure what idolizing people has to do with being a young liberal either. He is a good director, he makes great documentaries, he uses people's stories, humor, and facts to show what he wants to say.
  
  And watch it with the "more emotion than knowledge" bit Some people could do with having a little more emotion and a little less "knowledge".
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I declared my own guilt of the same! By the time you're my age you've seen so much you get alittle desensitized to emotion.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've noticed this tendency among the right nowadays. I don't know if it's their evangelical Christianity lending itself to a Manichean worldview, but they assume that everything they support is good and perfect, and everything the left supports is incorruptibly evil.
  
  Michael Moore is not perfect, but he's not a demon either. He raises some good points in every one of his movies. There might be factual inaccuracies, and some important omissions, but no one is saying it should be held up as the Gospel.
  
  Unfortunately often, I see a discussion where someone asks something reasonable that one of Moore's movies brings up, the response is some ad hominem attack on Moore himself ("he's fat!")? It makes me think there is no serious response from the right.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree it is refreshing when film makers jump in to the foray and create conversation based on facts or at least the inference of fact. Gives us great discussions, don't you think?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is this a serious response from the left? I managed to watch about an hour Sicko before I couldn't take it anymore. I don't care if he's fat he is a liar, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah the esteemed Senator from Minnesota Al Franken, "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat liar" ad hominem please!
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What makes you think it's from the left? As a good conservative you must remember the cardinal rule, label it first so you can give the prescribed answer.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK, how about misguided?
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Misguided how? Is it meant to lead you a different direction that you know better to follow?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you wanted a label I gave you one
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I get it you have trancended the label and qualified it with the result. What makes you think someone from the left is misguided. Are they not capable of coming to their own conclusion that happens to be shared by other? And they may not be associated with the left.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What exactly about the movie made you shut it off?
  
  As for Franken's book, the title is certainly an ad hominem attack, but if you read the book itself, he actually delves into the reasons why Limbaugh's claims are full of B.S. (which is fine if you think Limbaugh is a humorist/satirist, but most of his dittoheads don't think so)
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why did I shut it off? I guess his constant pushing of the excellent health care in other Countries, I shut it off at the point he was in France talking to Americans living there and sitting around a table. Al Franken on a good day is just boring and I don't think I could get through anything he has written.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did it bother you that Americans chose to live overseas? I don't get it.
  
  They were sharing stories about the fact that their health care was better and they had peace of mind about it, unlike their own families back at home.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is some justification for that view. Not that Moore hit anywhere near the truth. Medical tourism is on the rise, true. But you see it in nations like Costa Rica, Nicaragua, even India has some. Part of my long term plans are to set up a medical tourist system with my relatives in Mexico for people in the US. Even if they don't get a universal healthcare proposal through Congress, they are still ignoring the underlying economic fundamentals of the problem. So you can expect healthcare costs to keep on rising. They will continue to rise until and unless you increase the supply of healthcare providers. But don't expect doctors to get behind that idea, they won't be able to get their inflated salaries anymore.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
LOL Sneako, the more I look at you, the more you remind me of Ralph Deeds.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  All right Russian put'em up! Thems fite'n words!
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, Misha you are funny again.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
You guys do all the fighting, I just do watching and commenting

Seriously, the passion and methods are mostly the same, and positions are mostly opposite.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad you clarified. I was a little nervous over your judgment.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Guilty as charged. Is a bribe possible?
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  Vladimir Uhriposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ha ha ha ha good!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have some righteous brownies!
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yoshi97posted 15 years ago
I don't stand in line for a loaf of bread ... life is good with capitalism.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
No offense, but thats sad.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. But some movies still make me cry.
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Haha. But life isn't a movie sneako. Nothing else brings out strong emotions?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, I cried when my son was born. I cried when my father-in-law died. I cry for my Mom and how she suffers at my Dads controlling behavior. I cry for children who are left without love of a family or friends. I cry for us all when I pray to give us strength and help us make good choices. Worldly things don't mean as much anymore.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Sadness isn't the only emotion. I guess I'm just trying to understand why you think that as you get older you gain knowledge but lose emotion.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its kinda like the aches and pains of life come and go and I've just become numb theres so much you can't do anything about. Talking on the internet is just a way to share thoughts but it will still be there tomarrow no different than today. I wrote a Hub on the things I love because they bring joy to my heart. I'm a workerbee and I have a great family, its what I aspired to and I made it, the rest is just noise.
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can learn from life's lessons that you can't do anything about certain things. But that doesn't mean that your life becomes emotionless. You still care and feel.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're right if I didn't care I would have never tried to mend our fences. You're going to have a great life and you'll find the things that work and those to duck. You'll pick your fights well and you'll walk away when theres no point. You'll hang on to the things in life you love and focus your attention there. The things that are negative you'll find away to push them aside. You're very smart and observant I know you'll love and live well.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Good night Cole! This guys played out and I have a big job to focus on tomarrow. See-ya later!
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good night
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Colebabie, I was reading some of the things you wrote and your a very well spoken person. I have found it difficult to express mtself in writtings but i still try. I'm a person whom believes that together we can change things. truely it's easier for the billionaire to get what he wants because he will just buy it. For myself, I have to may my voice heard and see whom is will to join the cause. Millions upon millions took the time to morn the king of pop (so did I). Now it's time to stand-up for something I feel is bigger (We The People), (My Child)and everything I believe in. How can I just stand by feeling numb when I have a child to look after. Your right about emotions but I feel anger(emotion) as I watch the LAND OF THE FREE slowly ture into a LAND OF THE COMMUNIST. Sure i'm numb to allot of things but in some things I have to stand on a principle and not allow myself to become numb to.
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Bibowenposted 15 years ago
Michael Moore's career success, not to mention the size of his girth, would suggest that capitalism has served him well.
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  rbrt_leviposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hello,
  You made me laught. Capitalism always serve those who have the most. Listen to the message not the messenger I wish I was in his shoes. I know that money can't buy happiness but i'm not crazy to think that it does'nt my life alot more pleasurable.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Capitalism serves those who are willing to work.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Hi rbrt,
Thank you for your kind words. I commend you for trying to express yourself in words. Even an effort is worth something. There are only so many things you can change in life. Often it is not important to directly make your voice heard, but do what you can in your own life to make your beliefs known. Others will be inspired by your words, consideration, and thoughts and will carry along the message. It is never an option to stand by feeling "numb". One cannot go through life emotionless. However it is important to know when and how you stand up, and when you simply let things go. You can't solve everyone's problems. Rather than dwelling on what you believe to be negative changes in the world, make positive ones in your own life. I hope you will start writing for HubPages, there are many amazing people here who will guide you along the way.
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zampanoposted 15 years ago
hehehe.
nicomp reminds me of Mister Ed.

Ok. People !
Let's remake the World !

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livelongerposted 15 years ago
LDF: We've discussed this before. Your comparative doctor numbers ignore the fact that doctors don't make housecalls, they schedule patients much more efficiently, they have office staff that deals with all the paperworks, taking of vitals, etc.

What doctors charge for office visits is not the main part of the problem. Doctors in developed countries, even in single-payer systems like the UK and Canada, are compensated quite nicely.

There are things that sound nice when looking at the problem in the abstract. Then there are the numbers.

Read the Atul Gawande piece in the New Yorker a few months ago. An excellent read that looks into the various theories about why health care costs are out of control. The article looks at McAllen and El Paso, Texas, and sees McAllen spending double per capita of El Paso, despite similar demographics and health outcomes.

The biggest reason? In some areas, private enterprise, often run by doctors, authorize very expensive tests and procedures (like MRIs, which cost $5-10k) that don't improve outcomes but line the pockets of those encouraging those tests.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sigh. It's hard being the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind. Still all's well. I've pretty much dumped this country for Third World developing nations. At least they're on the upswing.
  
  Look, your so-called "private" doctors only schedule those expensive tests to pad their accounts. Since it's the insurance companies that pay, not the individual patient, they get away with it. The insurance companies have been able, up until the last decade, to absorb those costs and still make a profit. Insurance companies socialize the cost of going to the doctor, but you can only spread the cost so much before you drown in higher costs.
  
  As for single-payer doctors, that's crap. None of those doctors works any harder than they have to because it doesn't matter how good they are, they'll get paid the same amount. Besides, are you a doctor in the UK? If not, how do you know how they feel about how much they're getting paid?
  
  Anytime you subsidize the cost of something, costs rise out of control. Ever wonder why college costs increase more than inflation? The cost of a college education is subsidized by the government. So it doesn't matter to the school to keep costs down, they can raise their rates and know they'll get it because the government will increase the subsidy to compensate.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lonely at the top, eh?
  
  No disagreement there.
  
  Nonsense. They don't absorb costs while making a profit. They pass those cost and profit increases to the buyers in the market. Really, we're talking about basic algebra--both parts of the equation must be equal.
  Or haven't you noticed that health care costs (paid by the BUYERS) have outpaced inflation for the better part of 3 decades?
  
  'Sicko' interviews a doctor in the UK who drives a nice BMW and has a posh house in one of the priciest parts of London. I have also met British doctors (2 I had dinner with about 6 years ago) who live very, very comfortably.
  And, if you hadn't noticed, there is no mad rush of doctors to leave developed countries for the US, despite the massive shortage you keep on insisting exists. The medical personnel in consistently short supply (since at least the 70s) have been nurses.
  
  I'm not sure if you're just "taking the piss" at this point or if you just haven't taken a class in elementary economics. I strongly suggest you study (and understand) the following concepts:
  - price elasticity (and whether college education options and medical treatment options are elastic or inelastic for any particular buyer)
  - the effect of subsidies on consumption of inelastic and elastic goods
  If you understand these concepts and have just been taking the piss, then have a nice weekend.
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starme77posted 15 years ago
capitalism hasn't failed - wallstreet took our money ...the banks took so- they capitalized we...just lost -
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  zampanoposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I really am amazed as how you so simply discribed crude reality...
  
  very good.
  and it might be like that for ever.
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Bibowenposted 15 years ago
As economist Thomas Sowell says, capitalism is not a "ism." It is the commonsensical method that one works, saves, invests, proceeds by trial and error, refines a skill, or develops a product such that it is of sufficient benefit to others so that they will pay you in exchange for it. It is the way that man has operated for millenia.

It's incredible that hubpage contributors would berate the free market. Hubpages isn't a socialist system. We have been provided some tools, but beyond that, it is what we make of it. Those that have been sucessful at hubpages have shown that capitalism works.

I doubt that any sucessful hubber could be a serious socialist. If you are sucessful hubber, you took the time to read about the successes of others, and have by trial and error, educated yourself and learned how to improve your product. Many of you have gone from writing hubs that made nothing to writing hubs that earn you some income.

But, if you are a sucessful hubber, and a socialist, you should be willing to forgo the fruits of your labor and give a portion of your adsense earnings to those that did not do the work, did not invest the time to read all those hubs you didn't want to read so that you could find out how to do it right.

After all, if other people are not motivated it's probably because successful people like you are keeping them down.

Now, if what I just said sounds like serious drivel to you, you aren't a socialist.

Come to think of it, Michael Moore isn't a socialist either. He just plays one on TV.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Classic strawman.
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Will Apseposted 15 years ago
I guess the facts just don't interest anyone (referring to my earlier post).

It seems that Michael Moore was quoted out of context by a mischief maker. I can understand that people like the original poster want to create controversy to make for lively debate but surely the truth has to play to some part? Or are we all expected to live on the wrong side of the looking glass?
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Michael Moore: Capitalism has proven it's failed

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Michael Moore: Capitalism has proven it's failed

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