Could someone please explain the Sarah Palin phenomena.

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Bibowenposted 15 years ago
Conservative Republicans should follow the plan that has worked for them in the past: if they run moderates, they lose; when the run conservatives, they win.

Palin is a conservative and she has good political instincts. With what little she did know, she mobilized a considerable portion of the conservative base in the 2008 election. With some help, she can do a lot more.

I think a better question is "why can't the press ignore her"? They ignore candidates like Ron Paul; why not also ignore Palin?
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Aquaposted 15 years ago
I guess then that makes me his 2nd latest fan!
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  elisabethkcmoposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and makes me Aqua's fan number 75
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  Aquaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cool, and I would be your 125th if I wasn't already a fan!
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  elisabethkcmoposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  wow, it's a mutual admiration society
  
  eat your heart out, Sarah Palin!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm gonna fan all of you that I'm not already a fan of!
  
  Earnest-- For some reason, I'm not yet your fan? How did that happen?
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Lita. Gosh I thought we fanned each other ages ago. I am gonna check now!
  I am now a fan. Sorry to have missed you Lita.
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
I hope you practice safe fanning!
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  funny tk
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Remember, when you fan, you are fanning everyone your fan has ever fanned.
  
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well tk including my own, that is a lot of fans.
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Aya Katzposted 15 years ago
Ledefensetech, you're talking about Reagan, right?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
Palin is not Reagan. Her lack of ability is not some media conspiracy; it is demonstrated whenever she opens her mouth. Her 2012 candidacy is not based on any reasonable chance at winning, it is an audition for Fox News.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In your opinion. What remains to be seen is how many of your fellow citizens share that belief with you.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's a relatively large group, LDT. Of conservatives, moderates, and liberals. It simply doesn't seem like it on Hubpage forums.
  
  fyi, Ron does not describe himself as a liberal.
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
I'm planning on writing a hub about Palin so I'll keep my comments here short.

Some people have touched upon the obvious answer: She's eye candy. She appeals to people because she looks good -- and she doesn't intimidate anyone with her...um...intelligence.

Tack 40 pounds and some wrinkles on her and she would have been completely over and done by now.

Sorry, but I believe it's that simple.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As Ernest said, she is attractive right up to the point where she opens her mouth.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending soldiers out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." Speaking to students at the Wasilla Assembly of God, June 2008

President of U.S. or Taliban?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She sees Alaska as the special place God has chosen for "the end times" in the coming tribulations. Which she sees as coming soon...and that she has also been chosen.
  
  Scary, scary stuff.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  More humorous than scary. Goerge W was the final Republican president. The more that party is controlled by the fringe element-which Palin appeals to, the faster it becomes a non-factor in presidential politics.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats what they said after Nixon
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ..........
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So what, it's illegal to make an expression of faith anymore? There are plenty of times expressions of faith are made: "I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof." John Adam's 2nd President. He could hardly be said to hold beliefs similar to the Taliban.
  
  "Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."
  
  "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." Abraham Lincoln
  
  "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending soldiers out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."
  
  Lita, how do you get from the quote above to believing that Alaska is going to be saved during the "end times"? If Alaska is so important, why did she resign?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The information I have I take from valid news sources. She stated that in an interview. Her church also calls her their chosen sister or some such stuff. Like I stated before, when I said I researched her--I researched her.
  
  And she resigned because she is a phony. Given her circumstances, she did right in going after the money, believe me.
  
  And she is still scary, because the loud but lunatic far right is very vocal and this stoking of their hatred is very apparent. It could erupt in physical violence...some would argue given recent news events, that it already has.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ]
  
  Awesome, where are the sources? I'm a bit of a skeptic seeing as how badly some Obama supporters have gone to make stuff up about her, like getting divorced. As for violence, what else can you expect when the government tries to consolidate power. Look at the OK bombing. That came from inept, some would say criminal, handling of "extremists" who happened to be religionists. If you leave people alone, they tend not to rise up in violence. Or at the very least you don't give a patina of authenticity to the nutjobs when they do go off.
  
  The problem is that right now, the nutjobs are going to use people's legitimate fears about encroaching government to justify their sick thinking. If you'd like an example of a leftist group that "erupted in violence" you might want to check out the Weather Underground.
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong.
Barack Obama
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to.
Barack Obama
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  Wendi Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're scary looking...you should wear a cowboy hat!
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society.
Barack Obama
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed.
Barack Obama

???????
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  Wendi Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  HUH??????????? As in Kansas, US?
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
"...just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."

Barack Obama
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
A Texan --

Do you have anything on-topic to add?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Totally on topic, Ron included quotes from Palin I am including some from Obama. See what happens when you elect unqualified people?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Unqualified? Now you're dragging Dubya into this? Oh wait, he wasn't "elected"...
  
  Anyway, Palin is the topic... Not Obama.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He was elected twice.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They are so bitter. Bush got the most votes and won the election. Facts is facts.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Facts are nothing compared to emotions, attitude, and rumor for libs.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen. Situational ethics. Do what feels good or seems right at the time. Nevermindtheconstitution.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's debatable.
  
  But back to Palin...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No it's not.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its not debatable. But go ahead if you want
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bush was elected, twice. Unless you feel that by upholding the laws of Florida was somehow not the right way to go.
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
"The fact that my 15 minutes of fame has extended a little longer than 15 minutes is somewhat surprising to me and completely baffling to my wife."

Barack Obama

You know what they say "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with Bullshit!"

Barack is doing a fine job
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can't stand it can you?
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
Thanks folks, you make my point very well. Like shooting ducks in a barrel.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck with those ducks, how many actually fit in one barrel?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You never responded to my quotes, Ron. Not enough like shooting ducks in a barrel? Or do you perhaps not grasp the import?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry LDT, you're quacks were lost among the other drivel. I assumed you would realize without my assistance that the stupidity of Palin's remark did not lie soley in her calling on God. Read your post again, there's still time to delete it.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "your"
  
  And please refrain from personal attacks.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then why pick a quote that names God? Why not pick another one. Surely there is one if she's as dense as you think.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Scroll back a bit. I've included many of her quotes. Like I said, the best case to be made against her comes from her own words and those of her supporters. Invoking the Christian God in a war where success is solely dependent on winning over a mostly Muslim population....Why not just call it a Crusade? Oh wait, W already did that.
  
  Going out now to enjoy the beautiful Arizona sunshine, why don't you all do the same...Oh sorry, most of you live in lesser states don't you....
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Muslim thing is a topic for another hub or thread. You probably won't like my thinking towards that religion.
  
  I'm a bit north of that and it feels quite like fall today. Good thing too, I love this kind of weather. It's one of the few things I really enjoyed about living in Taxachussetts.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LDT is always a few quacks above. And the drivelers, I guess, believe they have the right to ridiculous spamming under what they believe their idea of freedom of speech is. Sad, that.
  
  Many have been let out of jail after 3 day sentences, and it is play pen time again.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Stick to the topic instead of insulting other members. You can do that, can't you?
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
I believe an Obama supporter bit someones finger off. I wonder if he fried it?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hopefully the bite-ee had health care.
  
  The bite-er probably had dental coverage; chomping through finger bone requires healthy bicuspids.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure he did he was a responsible Republican!
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You mean he knew how to take care of himself? That's probably why the Obama apologist bit him.
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nicompposted 15 years ago
I have to go. High class customers with open checkbooks are waiting to pay me massive sums for my erudite observations.

And some shirts need to be folded.

See ya!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  laundry?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. Simply, you people's level of discourse is not worth any legitimate poster's time. Be that a conservative, moderate or liberal.
  
  I'm sure it is a matter of opinion, however, and the rest of the 'members' quite enjoy your very clever 'observations.' Indeed, they are fascinating.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please stop insulting other members. There's no need for it.
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
Can we get back to the Palin phenomena please?

I'll be happy to debate anything else as long as it's not hijacking someone else's topic. A time and a place for everything...

So is it true that Palin loves being in the spotlight?

Nothing wrong with it. Just askin'.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever seen a politician who didn't?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can't say that I have. But is she still a politician?
  
  Her responses to questions about running for prez are always vague at best.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what she is but I haven't seen her out in the spotlight lately. If you mean the media watches her every move and reports it then you have a point.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And you don't think she intentionally gives them reason to?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not anymore than any other politician, she does have a new book out. I watched Letterman last night and he just couldn't quit saying things about her. I wouldn't have watched but I was in Hondo and it was the only thing that came in clear, I hate satellites service!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, I know about her book. I'll get to that in my hub.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My point is that others seem to be keeping her in the spotlight, lets be honest the woman will never be elected President! But the way she has been portrayed is probably not accurate.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't she control the bulk of the accuracy? I mean if she wants to; I realize she can't respond to every single person's depiction of her.
  
  But she does always have access to the podium if she wants to correct or clarify anything, no?
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habeeposted 15 years ago
WHY is there so much animosity on this thread? Can't we debate without personal attacks and respect the views of those who disagree with us?

I'm a moderate conservative Southerner, and one of my best friends is a progressive liberal from "up North." We can debate poltics for hours and NEVER get angry or resort to name-calling. Is that possible here?? Just askin'...
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
She is rather hateful isn't she?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'd say passionate rather than hateful. We have some pretty interesting conversations. But then again, I get along with most people, might have something to do with being a military brat.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you wearing your rose colored glasses today?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Me, rose colored glasses? Nah. It is possible to disagree with someone, even vehemently and still be civil. Besides Lita and I got over that when I called everyone in the news business a cretin.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you say so
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See, agree to disagree. It works.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LDT is to be admired. He discusses the issues and is generally respectful. That is what debate is about. I'm really not interested in 'talking' to anyone who says nothing but ask ridiculous leading questions 'gaming' they system as to what constitutes a personal attack, or to those who having nothing to say past US vs. Them. To me, that is boring and annoying...and often worse than that.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe we could discuss the topic of the thread instead of casting aspersions on other members. That's not too much to ask, is it?
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The choice to make was not a difficult one but still distastful to say the least. Yes I saw a very slick politician in Obama and the idea of voting for him was a difficult one. But when you look back on the jibberish and mixed up logic comming out of McCains mouth and his references to Palin gave me no confidence that he could handle the job.
  
  Here are some quotes from your boy McCain since you want to quote the candidates of the time and to help you better get what I am talking about Texan:
  
  "Sure. Technically, I don't know." --asked if the U.S. is in a recession, "60 Minutes" interview, Sept. 21, 2008
  
  "I might have to rely on a vice president that I select’ for expertise on economic issues." --GOP debate, Nov. 28, 2007
  
  "The chairman of the SEC serves at the appointment of the president and, in my view, has betrayed the public's trust. If I were president today, I would fire him." --apparently unaware of the fact that the SEC chairman, as a commissioner of an independent regulatory commission, cannot be removed by the president, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Sept. 18, 2008
  
  "I understand the economy. I was chairman of the Commerce Committee that oversights every part of our economy." --ignoring the fact that it is actually the Senate Banking Committee which is responsible for credit, financial services, and housing -- the very areas currently in crisis, CNBC interview, Sept. 16, 2008
  
  And here are some quotes by your boy about Mrs. Palin.
  
  "[Sarah Palin] knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America. ... And, uh, she also happens to represent, be governor of a state that's right next to Russia." --after being asked about Sarah Palin's foreign policy experience, interview with WCSH-6, Portland, OR, Sept. 12, 2008
  
  "I also know, if I might remind you, that she is commander of the Alaska National Guard. In fact, you may know that on Sept. 11 a large contingent of the Alaska Guard deployed to Iraq and her son happened to be one of them. So I think she understands our national security challenges." --touting Sarah Palin's foreign policy credentials by confusing the Alaska National Guard with the U.S. Army, where Palin's son is currently serving, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Sept. 17, 2008
  
  And one more to really show you what a grasp he has on communicating his thoughts.
  
  "You know, I think you may have noticed that Senator Obama's supporters have been saying some pretty nasty things about Western Pennsylvania lately. And you know, I couldn't agree with them more. I couldn't disagree with you. I couldn't agree with you more than the fact that Western Pennsylvania is the most patriotic, most god-loving, most, most patriotic part of America, and this is a great part of the country."
  
  Wow! Can you imagine what our allies and foreign diplomacy would look like once he started rambling on?
  
  I don't like Obama too much but we did not need another poster boy for the republican party and big business to continue their looting of America.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He wasn't my boy, I did not vote for him.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As opposed to getting looted by "community organizers". I have hope, you do see corporatism as an evil of government, now you just have to expand your horizons and see how the opponents of corporatism are just as corrupt and just as liable to loot America.
  
  Look at the fiascoes that Obama has gotten us into. Seriously. Remember when Reagan asked people if they were better off than they had been in 1984? Let's ask ourselves that question a year from now.
  
  Oh just so you know, I never was a supporter of McCain. He's a crony of big business, just like Obama is. That's why I don't vote, once "your guy" gets in the White House, the same old players start to manipulate the Presidency.
  
  In a way that's what we get. We've allowed the President to expand his power far more than he was ever supposed to. This is the result. Groups battling it out for total power, or at least what they see as total power, while the country burns.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't understand why you don't vote if you have such strong feelings about the issues you write about. By making no choice you already have. Ambivalence gives them ( Politicians ) exactly what they want. Your vote. Even if you don't like either candidate write one in. Not participating is a choice, especially with your grasp on the issues one we cannot afford
  to do without. Without voting the minority rules.
  
  NO VOTE THEY WIN!
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You did a great job being a cheerleader for voting, but you don't consider he practical aspects of our two party system. Namely that making a decision between two equally bad choices is no decision at all. Neither party stands for what I stand for and that is becoming increasingly true for more and more American's I believe. For generations now politicians have been promising smaller government, more accountable government and what they've really been doing is setting up monopolies and special deals for their friends.
  
  What I don't get is that you have an example of both parties doing the same thing, saving their friends on Wall Street, at the expense of the rest of America within a year of each other. Both the Democrats and Republicans bailed out failed industries. If you think 2008 and 2009 were bad, wait until we start to feel the effects of the bailout. We'll look back on these days with nostalgia. If that doesn't prove the corruption of both parties, nothing will. Meanwhile, they distract us with things like the debate on universal heath care, welfare programs, and foreign wars. So tell me, why should I have voted in this last election?
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I swear to god, I love this guy !
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There were more than 2 choices. Nobody running even came close to representing your values?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is there ever a politician who represents your views? That's why we used to have limited government in this nation. With limited government it doesn't mater because the government is forbidden to interfere with how you live your life. Now all we do is fight over who gets the power to tell everyone what to do and, more importantly, who gets to pay for all the graft and vote buying that goes on. Is it any wonder our society is starting to split apart at the seams?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Candidates - yes. Elected officials, depends on the issue.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What's the diff?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Candidates make promises. Elected officials go back on them.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh. Somehow that escaped me
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Candidates sometimes retain some integrity.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only because they didn't get into office where they'd conveniently "forget" their promises, or even better, sacrifice their promises on the altar of biparisanship.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And sometimes they make promises but find out that fulfilling them is harder than they though because of things they were not told before taking office.
  
  I still believe that some people are good, not everyone is out for themselves only...
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Many people enter politics for the best reasons too, and make an honest effort while they are getting the crap kicked out of them and lies told about them by the ignorant.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're both right. In the U.S., Richard Lugar-Republican Senator from Indiana is a good example. He's done more to reduce nuclear stockpiles than anyone else.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  People are out for themselves. They don't do a thing unless it benefits them in some way. In some way can take many definitions, but everyone is motivated by self-interest. That gets to be a problem when you give one group of people power over another. Then they can get things for themselves at the expense of others, which as it happens is much easier than working for it yourself.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nah. Not everyone, and not always. But most, most of the time, I agree
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Even when you do something "nice", you still get some sort of satisfaction for your actions. It just means that you value being a good person more than you do the alternative. Looking out for yourself isn't about selfishness, it's about being able to stand on your own two feet and not be a burden on anyone. Only then can you help others. Otherwise you just drag everyone down with you.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. This aspect of human nature is exactly why our system of government was set up the way it was, with two branches always balancing out the third. None of them can run away with too much power (except for now)
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  For all their faults the Founders were pretty smart guys. We should have listened to their warnings. If our leadership caste knows what's good for it, they'll heed the warnings of the Founders.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please, not the guns again!
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ron I'm not advocating anything, it's a proven fact that the more you regiment society, the more violent it gets. Our leaders would do well to remember that.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Like the mass uprisings currently occuring in Britain, France, and Sweden?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Every one of those countries have very different cultural baggage than we do. For one thing those people were once subjects of their kings and before that they were legally tied to the land. Not exactly the home of the free.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So these are merely exceptions to the "proven fact"?
  
  In what instance was the fact proven?
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, just that different people have different levels of endurance to put up with regimented nonsense. It took the Russians 70 years before they revolted. Eastern Europe 50. China still has some of that going on. Severity also has something to do with it as well. The more severe the repression, the quicker people get tired of it.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nah. Clearly repressions in Russia were way more severe then in Eastern Europe, yet it took longer. And please don't tell me Russians are more idiots than Europeans.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No but the Tsar beat his serfs down much more than monarchs in the West did. Plus I don't think that Russia suffered from labor shortages after the Black Death like the West did. That's what really nailed the coffin shut on serfdom in the West.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds more convincing, yet still not very much. Interesting, I never thought that abandonment of slave labor in Europe happened because of the physical lack of workforce. Makes sense.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't strictly 'slave' labor in the first place and it wasn't an abandonment of old structures so much as a de facto move away from them as labor became more valuable via scarcity and thus the negotiating position of workers (skilled workers in particular) changed.
  
  Market forces and all that.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, yeah, you said it better. Sorry I was not too precise.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah! See, I told you it comes down to a question about views of human nature.
  
  Many disagree with this. Internal motivation is different, ie. Rollo May (and others) points out that humanity as a race seems geared towards creativity and self expression. This is a different thing than raw self interest.
  
  Many argue that altruism is also a part of the species...that we could not survive without it...it being an important part of what makes us different than others.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course many disagree with that view, but it doesn't make them right. Look at something like people who make wireless cards. Each manufacturer competes against every other maker or wireless cards. If they're interested in "raw self interest" then why do we have standards for 801.11 b/g/n cards? The answer is simple. Adopting the same standard makes it easier for customers to use their cards. Since you won't have any customers if you make it too hard to use your technology, you have a reason for these card makers to work together.
  
  You see this sort of thing all the time in business. That's why cooperation and competition are not necessarily mutually exclusive. On a related note, I think you mean selfishness when you say "raw self interest". Your definition of "raw self interest" doesn't allow for cooperation, I think.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, raw self interest (as I'd term it) allows for cooperation. Cooperation used towards self interest is still self interest.
  
  What I'm talking about is more of a drive towards self-expression...could be anything: Teaching, painting, writing, taking care of the sick, etc. It really is not about 'gain' in any market sense of that term (and that is the problem with this view of human nature...it is materialistic and animalistic). Innate motivation I believe to be more about claiming our true nature as enlightened sentient beings. The mark of the divine, if you will.
  
  Competition is ONLY operative up until a point. This is especially apparent in any advanced stage of learning/acievement...or why corporations don't understand why not all employees are 'motivated' by extra perks, or ridiculous 'treats' like pizza parties (that at a very low level). I actually believe as a society we've reached the saturation point with this, broadly speaking, as well.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK, you're thinking more along the lines of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'm curious as to what you'd make of this: http://mises.org/story/3686
  
  To a degree you're right. Once people reach a certain level, most of them attempt to self-actualize. But they have to have certain other needs met first. That security is one thing I think we're very close to losing in this day and age and that is what's fueling the fear and bickering we see all around us. That's why for the duration, I see people not working on self-actualization, but meeting those prerequisite needs first.
  
  I'm not so sure that everyone understands all the levels of Maslow's hierarchy. I think most people do, but I can think of people who have no concept of self-esteem and/or self-actualization. People themselves put value to the hierarchy which is why some of those productivity gimmicks work on some people and not on others.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mmmm. Maslow's is only one model, although, yeah, obviously he was on to something. I would point out, however, that art (drawing on the creativity aspect) has existed for thousands and thousands of years...before the official development of civilization because it meets this 'high' level need. And that Greek tragedy also met this certain need...and to what end (the why) is very interesting indeed.
  
  I'd argue the pre-requisites to self-actualization in most cases in the western world have been met. It could be true that races of people become sick...or are made sick...perhaps I see Americans in this place. You know an interesting observation is how many time the phrase "do not fear" is used in the new testament (which could be seen as marking a new way of seeing...as could the dawn of many mainstream religions). It's curious, that. It could be that the fear response itself is what is keeping people from this so-called self-actualization, .
  
  The article is somewhat in keeping the beliefs of libertarian socialism in its deep distrust of any sort of power or authority: Only it suggests this misuse of power can come from governmental as well as private realms. Another difference I see is that it does not acknowledge altruism or service (which I believe is a part of some leader's makeup). Libertarian socialism suggests that a natural meritocracy will develop that would not assume egoistic power but serve. The theory does not necessarily believe that the form of 'democracy' as we now know it is adequate either.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're putting too much emphasis on art and creativity. Art and creativity seem to be hallmarks of species which have the capability to think in abstract terms. Indeed as you move up Maslow's hierarchy, the hierarchy becomes more and more abstract. It's hard to say, however, without observing a species that is as sentient as we are. We have yet to find another such species.
  
  We've met our basic needs. I'm not even so sure about that. A potential calamity nobody is talking about right now is the fact that most of our infrastructure has reached the end of it's useful life and the till is empty. We can't afford to replace any of it especially with all of our unfunded liabilities like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. I really hadn't considered people fearing self-actualization, but I suppose that could have some influence on the situation, although that might be more a failing in education than anything else.
  
  Do you not think that people in government are as capable of misuse of power? Don't you think such misuse, coming as it does from government, is more dangerous than that of a private entity? You don't seem to believe in a natural meritocracy. Why not? Also I wonder if you caught the part about the self-esteem level and how it really should be divided into two parts. The first being what we think of when we think self-esteem and the other being narcissistic. A sort of dark side to the hierarchy of needs.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, LDT. I'm using art and creativity because it is something I know about. And in renaissance parlance (ie Shakespeare...I've studied a lot of Shakespeare), yep, sentience is the mark of the divine...we are posed somewhat between the earth and the angels. No need to compare to another species. We are the sentient species on earth and are the subject of this discussion. Incidentally, Greek tragedy, developed thousands of years ago, always considered a weightier thing than comedy, although both had the same aim--is a response to the ultimate fear and limitation of our sentient species: death. And this was thousands of years ago, yeah? Do you see what I might be getting at here?
  
  I would consider your 'fear' about the infrastructure, lol, probably a diversion to not discuss what I'm bringing up because I'm going of into areas you don't want to discusss...OR, an example of manufactured fear (fear response taking over). Interesting that you read what I wrote as "fear of self-actualization." Not what I intended, but a frozen fear response indeed might be just that.
  
  I think that most humanistic psychologists would not consider narcissism part of self-actualization, but instead a disorder. I do believe that the power hungry are narcissistic, yes. Be they captains of private entities or captains of government. I believe (and I think I stated) that BOTH these entities can be guilty of a misuse of power. I do NOT make a distinction there and see no valid reason for a distinction. Since I was the one who brought up the phrase 'natural meritocracy,' I, lol, must believe in it. But perhaps this definition is not what you had in mind.
  
  I somewhat see you as more of a traditional conservative than a libertarian, LDT, from your responses. But when the term takes on the weight of the idea of 'free market' geared ultimately towards materialism, maybe this is how it appears.
  
  "The exercise of power in any institutionalized form – whether economic, political, religious, or sexual – brutalizes both the wielder of power and the one over whom it is exercised."
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I totally disagree with you...
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you do.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand your logic and sympathize with your apothy but the fact of the matter remains that even if both choices are bad there is a degree of bad.
  
  McCain with his lack of forethought to the issues demonstrated that he was clearly not the choice as evidenced by the outcome of the election. You can go off on a diatribe about the terrible liberals lied and manipulated the independents to swing their vote but recent events have proven my point.
  
  During the campaign and when it was proven that Iran had nuclear aspirations and abilities he wanted us to jump in with both feet. With the election results there and his rhetoric about the next step in the war on terror. I can't get behind that logic and think the better mind made the best choices so far.
  
  Your not voting is the only thing we have at stopping the slime on the hill. And by not voting you have in essence quit and been summarily silenced. Look I don't agree with a lot of what you say but there are a lot of people who do. Don't you think that if you took part in it you might gather some support in the way you believe it should go?
  
  The vote is the only way we have to stop the criminals in Washington.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is a projection. Psychology 101.
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habeeposted 15 years ago
How is Palin supposed to "control" what's said about her? Take to the podium? Obama is at the podium all the time, and people are still saying he's a muslim and that he wasn't born in the US.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. There's always a podium and microphone available to her if she has anything -- at all -- to say.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would rather listen to her speak than read the narcissism from some of the posters here.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank goodness I'm meek and humble!
  
  Or not.
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
Obama ran a very effective campaign and McCain did not. No mystery about it. McCain didn't lose because of Palin and we are unfortunately stuck with this guy for a while.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree but I guess giving him a chance while paying close attention to what he does is what we need to do for the good of the country.
  
  I am a registered independent so could you guys please give us some better choice in the future? Please!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pick a party and support the better choice next time!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think Palin cost him a ton of votes and possibly the election. I believe there were many people who were waiting for something to sway them one way or another.
  
  Unfortunately for McCain, Palin swayed a lot of people the opposite way of where he stood.
  
  Which reminds me... I still haven't sent her a thank you card...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think she gained him many hundreds of thousands of votes. There were a lot of Republicans very unsatisfied with McCain, and just about everyone who was just oh so upset over Palin (then and now) is of the sort who was gonna vote Obama anyway. Nothing lost, something gained, but not enough.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You betcha she won him some votes. A former beauty queen standing next to her war hero grandfather is very appealing to some people.
  
  But I believe she cost him more votes than what she may have won him. If I'm not mistaken, Obama's popularity really jumped after Palin was put on display.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Think about who got all nasty and viscious over Palin. How much of that demographic was gonna vote for McCain anyway?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She didn't cost any votes from those who weren't going to vote for McCain anyway.
  
  She cost McCain votes by losing support from those who were previously pro-McCain.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see the number of people who were going to vote McCain and didn't as anywhere near the number of people who just weren't going to vote at all and did for the ticket because of her.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've never seen anything to support that, have you?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have any data at hand to support it, but it was widely known that McCain was weak with the conservative base - which is where most of Palin's support came from. McCain' people discussed, during the primaries, the fear that a lot of this demographic would just stay home. They came out for Palin.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If anything, she brought that almost-dead pasty white guy a lot of votes.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Back-track in this thread a bit. Already pointed out Obama's popularity surged after Palin was brought on board.
  
  Whatever she brought him was less than what she cost him.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your logic doesn't hold. Obama's popularity may have surged at that time but so did McCain's in the republican camp. She was the only reason that it did too.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not a matter of logic, it's fact. Obama's popularity surged overall, not simply with Dems. McCain's took a hit. He lost more support than he gained.
  
  If you remember, plenty of top Republicans were upset about McCain selecting Palin because it hurt his chances.
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If she had been allowed to be herself things may have been different. Obama had it in the bag as people were upset with Bush and ACORN assisted with numerous votes to ensure bama won the election.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think you might be right.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ACORN didn't touch the votes as far as I know. They were accused of creating phony registrations (not votes) so they'd get paid more, no?
  
  I've never seen any proof that ACORN added or subtracted one vote for any candidate.
  
  Can you show me something to support your statement?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why create phony registration if you don't intend to vote with them? ACORN employees have been more than accused 30 of them have been convicted.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As she said...they did it to get more money...
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So there never was any intention of people voting multiple times using multiple voter registration? Do you really believe that?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They were paid according to the number of new registrations they were able to get. That's plenty of reason for someone to create more registrations than they actually obtained.
  
  You have to produce ID when you vote. A phony registration for "Sara Tonyn" doesn't allow "A Texan" to cast a vote just by claiming he's her.
  
  But not for casting votes, for phony registrations. Again, there's a huge difference.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  First of all most of the time you are asked ONLY for the voter registration, I have never been asked to show my ID. Secondly an organization that is supposed to be acting within the legal boundaries has been shown at least 30 times to be operating outside of it. The smart money is on voter fraud at every level, and you defend them...sad
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure about that? I always have to show ID here in Ohio.
  
  Hmm. Maybe that's cuz you live in Texas where you indicated Republicans will always win. No need to register or vote there, eh?
  
  What were saying earlier about making assumptions?
  
  If you can, show me an instance -- in any state --- where ACORN was found guilty of voter fraud. Maybe I missed it.
  
  I'm not defending what they did with the registrations, I'm simply saying I've never seen any proof that it went beyond that.
  
  See, outside of Texas you're innocent until proven guilty.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you feel motivated to take a shot at the great state of Texas?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't a shot. It was a return volley to what A Texan posted earlier re assumptions.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "If you can, show me an instance" where I said "Republicans will always win" then I will search for some ACORN news. I doubt very seriously Ohio checks ID every time if at all, I mean come on its Ohio. Innocent until proven guilty is a concept that Texans take very seriously, so I am not sure where you're going with that whole thing. Come on down, where your buckeye shirt, we'll have a party!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say you said "Republicans will always win." I said you indicated it. I based that on statements like this from you:
  
  "You think my vote would have made a difference in Texas? Really? Texas?" (your response to why you didn't vote)
  
  "It is not apathy to know that the Republican was gonna win Texas, it was just common sense!"
  
  Sounded to me like a Republican was a lock.
  
  http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/Text.asp … eSupport=1
  
  "Election Day Voting
  
  A current and valid photo identification (i.e. Ohio driver’s license, state ID card, government ID). Photo identification must show name and address ..."
  
  I'm starving. Order me a Texas-sized pizza.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Always" thats the key word! Care to try again?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I bow to a technicality. You found your excuse not to look for the ACORN info I asked about.
  
  But it's kinda lame.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Life is hard
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Texas has the same law, think its enforced?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I hope so. It's enforced here. Is Texas selective about which voting laws it enforces?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/15/vo … e-ballots/
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  jiberishposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/15/vo … e-ballots/
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Jiberish, I never checked to make sure it went.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And so...? We've already established that phony registrations exist. Being sent an absentee ballot based on a phony registration isn't casting a vote or having a phony vote counted.
  
  It's standard procedure to send out absentee ballots if they're requested. You can't very well ask someone who's not there (absent) to show a photo ID, can you? LOL
  
  It's when -- or if -- absentee ballots are returned that the information is verified or invalidated. That's when the law is enforced. Until then, Mickey Mouse who claims to be living at your house in Texas can request an absentee ballot and receive it.
  
  I'm curious; do you know how this investigation turned out?:
  
  http://digg.com/politics/Vote_flipping_surfaces_in_TX
  
  It involves the voting machines (not the infamous Diebold machines) that apparently gave votes to Republicans though they were cast for Democrats.
  
  Now, if proven, that's an instance where actual vote count (not mere registration) would be affected.
  
  By any chance do you happen to recall what the outcome was?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, never heard of it. As far as absentee ballots go didn't you say they check ID every time because its the law in Ohio to do so?
  
  Why would someone ask for a ballot but not have any intention of using it? That doesn't make sense, does it? LOL
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Acorn overwhelmed the election boards in Ohio with possibly bogus registrations.
  
  http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/v … BFNPZVnGMM
  
  http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/b … kI6NOWjXjP
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they check ID before you can enter the voting booth. Once you've completed voting your ballot has already been validated so it's placed in a ballot box.
  
  I suppose some people might request one then change their minds about voting. Obviously others might be trying to cheat. But it's not a crime to simply request a ballot. It's sending it back with phony info that's a real bad idea.
  
  Regardless, yes, absentee ballots are always validated -- ID checked, one vote per registration, etc. -- when they're returned. (before they're submitted for counting) I think absentee votes might require more than one piece of ID. Maybe a driver's license and a recent utility bill or something. Not sure if everything has to be notarized or ...?
  
  Want me to have 'em send one to you in 2012?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Will you write my name in?
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, their boy won. He has supported ACORN until recently when the government got in on the picture and he changed his mind, again.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I ask: Can you show me something to support (as in prove) your statement?
  
  This is the what I'm referring to:"... ACORN assisted with numerous votes to ensure bama won the election."
  
  Where's the proof that ACORN was responsible for phony votes being cast?
  
  Registrations aren't votes.
  
  EDITED TO ADD: Take your time. I have to eat dinner before I pass out!
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ACORN assisted with helping people register and now you think ACORN didn't "assist" them in voiting?? PUHLEASE...
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  PUHLEASE show me proof they did. Pretty PUHLEASE?
  
  Otherwise you've got nothing -- except perhaps the misfortune of having fallen for Beck/Limbaugh/FOX News type propaganda.
  
  Making up phony names because you're paid according to how many registrations you managed to get is one thing. You write down a phony name and address. Done! No proof of any kind is required.
  
  Voter fraud is entirely different. Unless you have something to prove who you are, you can't vote.
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  With all the fraud taking place in Chicago, yes, ACORN got away with it. Perhaps if you listened to the real world media you'd know.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do listen to the real world media, thank you.
  
  I see you still offer no proof of what you claimed, only assumptions. If a law was broken, provide proof and I'll wholeheartedly agree to punish the guilty parties. I have no problem with that.
  
  But if you're just parroting Beck, Limbaugh or FOX News -- which is what it seems like you're doing --- without proof of anything your accusations mean nothing. Sorry.
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rhamsonposted 15 years ago
Say it ain't so! You didn't vote for the other did you? I can't see you as a Naderite!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nooooo, there were no choices in this past election for me. I just didn't vote, I live in a State where it doesn't matter if I do or not.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you are in the game without a bet. I guess you can be right about anything at this point.
  
  I will tell you though, without voting for your slimeball of choice the politicians win and have sufficiently taken you out.
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  ledefensetechposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, we still have the final recourse to those who would shackle us in the chains of tyranny. The Second Amendment sees to that. That recourse, however, is to distasteful and fraught with danger that we are willing to put up with the abuses of government. Our willingness to go along with such abuses only encourages the political class to continue the abuse. Until one day, the abuses can no longer be tolerated.
  
  I greatly fear our leaders, regardless of party, are going to run up against this problem very soon. Keep an eye on food prices. Once shortages and/or price inflation hits the food market, you're going to see people with pitchforks and torches in the streets.
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Lisa HWposted 15 years ago
When McCain first introduced Sarah Palin at the noon-time press conference I thought it was kind of nice that his selection turned out to be a woman (and one who was a mother and who didn't seem to think she had to try to be a "fake man" in order to aim for something like the Vice Presidency). All I knew about her was that she was governor of Alaska, had a family, and was appealing looking. I thought it was a little odd that it seemed she was "dragged out of the woodwork" to be candidate for such a position, but I assumed "the powers that be" knew something about her abilities/experience that I didn't. I wasn't a fan of the joke about a soccer-mom and a pitbull, but I let it slide (in my "mental files"), figuring everyone has a right to the occasional joke/remark that's going to rub someone else the wrong way.

I knew that they usually aim to balance out a ticket, and that there was the "woman issue" and "Black candidate issue" (which meant offering yet another "old, White, guy" wasn't something the party saw as a great idea. Although I, personally, like to see experience that I think is "solid"; I thought it was nice that she could "show the world that women in powerful positions don't have to be fake men". So, even though I thought she was an odd choice, I was originally ok-enough with it. Then, though, she did a whole bunch of things that, to me, just came across as goofy and/or phony, so she lost me (and all people in my little circle who think similarly to the way I do). (I have Conservative leanings, by the way.) During one of the debates I commented to someone with me, "She talks to people the way some teachers talk to kids, and it doesn't even sit well with kids." We laughed when, right afterward, we learned that she has teachers in her family. To me, that comes from either underestimating the intelligence of people to whom you're speaking or else not, yourself, being intelligent enough to have any idea of how intelligent other people may be. Either one wasn't good, in my opinion.

Apparently, though, a good portion of the population has a completely different set of ideas, standards, and expectations that I do (and that people in my circle do). There's a reason so many Presidential candidates get their picture taken in those red-plaid, flannel, shirts. I don't even know anyone who wears those shirts, but apparently there are voters who wear them (and who don't relate to someone in a white dress shirt or a professional-looking suit). Sarah Palin brought the whole "red neck" (or at least "regular person", according to some people's idea of a "regular person") image to the ticket; and then she brought being a woman as well. On top of that, she brought an attractive appearance. Then, too, she brought the "outsider" image. Some Conservatives were willing to vote Republican because they believe "any Conservative is better than a Liberal", but there are people who would rather voter against party lines than vote in someone who would be that "heartbeat away from the Presidency" but who they saw as frighteningly unqualified.

Any voter looking for any of these things would have found her a candidate. Apparently, quite a few Americans measure candidates' qualifications by things like this, but a lot (the majority, apparently) do not. Sarah Palin seemed to have lost more votes for McCain than she won for him, but she got to take away from the whole thing her own new-found fame and all those followers who were impressed by whatever it was that impressed them about her.

It strikes me (I could be wrong, of course) that if the Republican party wants to lose again next time around, Sarah Palin is their gal. I, personally, don't think she's a stupid person; but I'm not the only one who thinks she's far from brilliant. I think, when it comes down to it, most voters HOPE to get the candidate with the most potential for being "brilliant" when the need arises. It seems right to me that, now that Sarah Palin has her fame, she go around and talk up the Conservative ideas to anyone who wants to listen to her. The "Sarah Palin Phenomenon", I guess, could be explained by the fact that not all Americans think the same way, and apparently a lot of them (just not enough of them) liked her.
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
A minority is certainly ruling us now!
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You made my point.
  
  Really I liked Ron Paul and still do. He has some very wide open ideas and maybe too many but I like his reference to the constitution whenever he speaks.
  
  If Kucinich didn't come off as such a kook with the outer space stuff I would have looked at him more seriously too.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't make your point. The far left is a minority in this country, that is why Obama ran as a centrist, his lies fooled enough people to get him elected, now elected he doesn't hide his far left views. That is the minority of which I speak.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whether you chalk it up to lies, centerist support or even the Easter Bunny you were in the minority by not voting and you helped him win.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think my vote would have made a difference in Texas? Really? Texas?
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  Wendi Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Apothy is what the slime on the hill feed on and you by yourself probably would have made no difference but if there is enough of non voters then they have a feast. Guess whats for dinner, your money, your land, your rights and even your life. Your apothy is their reward.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is not apathy to know that the Republican was gonna win Texas, it was just common sense!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's a shame people got that impression of Kucinich. He can seem a bit offbeat at times but he's excellent in the role of David when Goliath is creating havoc.
  
  Too bad it's so difficult for a third party candidate to get serious attention and consideration.
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BJCposted 15 years ago
Sarah is interesting because she speaks out of one side of her mouth and doesn't double speak. She represents many Americans who are normal people with normal family values, and normal family screw ups. She worked her way to the top instead of sleeping with any and everyone, she is still happily married to the same man, and she is attractive. A woman who has a career, chldren, and goes hunting etc. IF she were an anti-family liberal spouting ugly female the media would adore her. Plus with all the fodder floating around about her people want to know what she's really like.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sigh. Liberals are not anti-family.
  
  But it's interesting that you seem to think her looks worked against her. I couldn't disagree more.
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  rhamsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is that enough to run a disarmement conference with the nuclear powers of the world? Is that enough to deal with a shrinking economy this country is facing globaly? Is that enough to be able to figure out the hostilities that are in the Middle East and get some resolution.
  
  If I were a woman and the party that chose her masquraded her choice as a competent candidate based on her good looks, hometown charm and motherly persona I would be greatly offended as a woman and an intelligent constituent. I think the whole menagerie was a chauvenist ploy.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. I thought the GOP insulted their own by believing enough of them would buy into her looks and ignore her lack of qualifications.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't the Secretary of State a world class genius? She is supposed to be the smartest woman on earth. Hillary has done what for our foreign affairs?
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Clinton has nothing on Condi
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because... ?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, the democrats had the chance to nominate the exact opposite of that and didn't.
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  Lisa HWposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of people don't see her as "the normal American". It's great that she has her family and career, and I don't take those things away from her; but, for example, a lot of American families don't believe in hunting for sport. The mothers I know (myself included) have often worked hard to try to raise families who are not capable of harming living creatures. The fact that she made such a big deal about being so proud of shooting animals made me think she lacks a certain type of empathy and appreciation of life that a lot of "normal" mothers want to instill in their children. I just don't see her lifestyle/family as particularly representative of most of the families I know (even with career moms who are attractive).
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter what she did, or does, in her spare time, people are going to attack her because of what she believes in and publicly states that. She could be a girl scout, or be against killing animals, put whatever in there but people will attack for the reasons given above.
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rhamsonposted 15 years ago
Sorry folks I gotta go. Pick this up later.
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
A Texan --

Did you consider writing in a candidate's name?

You could have exercised your right to vote that way.

I was available.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm still waiting for a response on the genius masquerading as Secretary of State. Or how about the Ivy League legal scholar posing as President. Sarah Palin is a non-factor at this juncture and the "smart ones" appear to be clueless.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure why we're off-topic again but there's no doubt Hillary Clinton and President Obama are both extremely intelligent. You may not like them or agree with what they stand for but I don't know how you can question either's intelligence.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can question their intelligence just as easily as you can question Palins. We don't have 57 States, there was no town in Kansas where 10,000 people died. I not only question their intelligence I question their honesty,integrity and their apparent lack of ability to govern effectively!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you really believe Obama thinks there are 57 states? You can't figure out what he said, why he said it and what he meant?
  
  Thank goodness no Republicans ever make mistakes when they speak!
  
  There are big differences between making innocent mistakes or misspeaking and being stupid. If you aren't able to recognize those differences... Well it's self-explanatory.
  
  Now.... Since we're off topic, can we discuss the Bush family's connection to the bin Laden family? Or how the Bush family attained there wealth through their connection to the Nazis rise to power?
  
  Or should we just get back to Palin?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol. Bush, Quayle, Ford, Reagan were all dogged mercileccly in the press for their "innocent mistakes". Bush was portrayed as a monkey, Qualye as an idiot, Reagan as senile.
  
  We could take it. Now it's your turn. It's politics. live with it.
  
  And you have the gift of perception in this field, yes? Or might you possibly be partisan?
  
  Yes, my barber's dog walker was abducted by aliens who told him, before helping him with his crop circle, that Bush once had lunch with Hitler. They talked about making the trains run on time.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's fine to be "dogged mercileccly [sic]" for innocent mistakes. We can take that, no problem.
  
  However, it's entirely different to actually be stupid. Do you not understand the difference?
  
  I'm just able to tell the difference as I believe most people are.
  
  You obviously don't know the Bush family's history. The connection is well-known.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey! My spel cheker approved that word!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No,no,no! Stupid people make stupid comments, that is what all of the smart people on this thread have been implying. There is no changing the strategy just because your guy made the stupid comments. Why do you want to discuss any Bush? Are any of them in public office at this time?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Liberal tactics: tear down someone else to build up your guy. Classic.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, right. But I suppose you only apply such an approach to who you perceive to be female. I may have noticed.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And they're correct.
  
  You still seem unable to tell the difference between innocent mistakes and stupidity.
  
  I'm not changing strategy at all. I'm simply pointing out the difference.
  
  I don't really want to discuss them -- though I will if you want.
  
  I tossed the Bush questions out there because you seem to be determined to remain off-topic. If that's the case, I too should be allowed to pick a few off-topic matters to discuss. So I did: Bush, the bin Ladens and the Bush fortune attached to Nazis.
  
  So tell me, which is it? Palin? Or a free-for-all?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are no mistakes! Barack Obama is convinced America is made up of 57 States, he said it, I can provide video proof if you need it. I don't want to talk about Bush, have I ever given that implication?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm afraid you're, um...mistaken. The only other option is that you're simply stu-. No, that couldn't be it.
  
  But if you keep going off-topic to discuss Obama or Clinton, it's only fair I get to go off-topic with Bush and bin Laden families close ties and the Bush family's connection to the Nazis.
  
  Play fair now.
  
  Again, I give you the choice. On topic or off?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do whatever you want. I will.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okie-dokie. I choose to get back on topic: Palintology.
  
  Did you see that her husband quit his job?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hadn't heard. His oil field job?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. He quit just the other day.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There's no doubt that Obama refused to release his transcripts and his college board scores. We have no clue whatsoever how well or poorly he achieved in college. If we bash Bush because he was a so-called "legacy" student at Yale, we must apply the same courtesy to BHO; we don't know how he got into Harvard or how well he did when he was there.
  
  We know he was an editor of the Harvard Law Review, along with over 100 other student editors. We know that he was elected by his peers as president of the review, not appointed by virtue any academic achievement.
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  egivposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Obama is TERRIFIED you will see his scores. Columbia College, Harvard Law (president of the Harvard Law Review, graduated magna cum laude) before becoming a professor at the University of Chicago Law School. His grades must have been HORRIBLE! What a scandal!!
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sarcasm, the last resort of obfuscation. You've probably flamed Bush for being a legacy, yes?
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  egivposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok let me put it in simple english for you: If his grades were bad, he would not have gotten accepted to Columbia College, one of the best colleges in the country. He obviously did very well at this challenging school, because Harvard Law is even more difficult to get into. Not only did he do well there, but he was the president of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude (meaning he had above a 3.5 gpa). In fact, he did so well that he became a professor at the University of Chicago Law, another one of the top universities in the United States.
  
  Therefore, it is pointless that you try and act like you have something on him by saying he is hiding something, because his scores were clearly very high. Hows that?
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol. He's still hiding something and you continue to dance around it.
  
  "Obviously" he did well. What a hoot.
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  egivposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You clearly have realized that your argument makes no sense.
  
  Responding to your earlier question about Bush. I have never "flamed Bush for being a legacy." I flamed Bush for being an idiot.
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Money (Acorn) talks babay.............
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And yet he thinks there are 57 States, kinda sad really.
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  Flightkeeperposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Columbia and Harvard Law weren't what they used to be.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let me help you understand the slip-up and circumstances:
  
  http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp
  
  Didn't Rush Limbaugh, FOX News or Glenn Beck tell you everything?
  
  Huh. Why in the world would they forget to include the rest of the information? It's almost as if they wanted to give people the wrong idea.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How wonderful for you, and that explains that Obama didn't say that there was 57 states how? Keep trying to explain it all you want to most on this thread stupid people make stupid comments! There you go, Obama is stupid too.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It explains that it was merely a slip-up, not a serious statement.
  
  I'm not sure how much more simply I can explain the difference between innocent mistakes and stupidity.
  
  I guess you just can't grasp it. Sorry, I didn't mean to embarrass you.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I dunno about you but graduating Magna Cum Laude from Harvard, where he held a J.D. (Juris Doctorate) suggests to me he's very intelligent.
  
  Bush on the other hand did what again at Yale? Oh yeah, he was a cheerleader.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And how was your career at Yale? Obviously you have demonstrated significant academic achievement yourself, yes? In my experience as an undergrad and graduate student, now as a professor, no student has been given academic credit for cheer-leading. It seems to be an extra-curricular activity and completely unrelated to any point you might be trying to make.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why the personal approach here, Nicomp? (That's not even the word for it.) Run out of other material?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. But what does that have to do with Bush being a cheerleader?
  
  I was merely responding to the question asked of me re a comparison of academic achievements.
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nicompposted 15 years ago
I have to fold some shirts now. Have a good one!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe Obama realizes his personal records are just that. Just as people's personal lives are just that.
  
  And of course I'm impressed with your obvious employment of your personal achievements. Given the approach you demonstrate here, I'll bet you are one heck of a teacher.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This kind of snide, passive-aggressive sniping is also a form of personal attack and is against the rules. Keep it on topic.
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
Actually this is very boring if you can't tell that I am using the absurd to counter the equally absurd then you will just have to continue on without me. Sarah Palin is no dumber than you or I and possibly smarter than both.

Obama is probably very smart and with that intelligence has succeeded in nothing other than creating more debt. He will be a one term President and possibly go down as the largest mistake this Country has ever made.

Read the polls and see where this country is heading, when black men bring rifles to town hall meetings where a black President is speaking, well, its probably not going his way.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone, in my opinion, who bases most of his writing on Glenn Beck really has no qualifications to define 'absurd.'
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is going to be impossible to discuss the topic at hand if you insist on constantly directing attacks on other members.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  pot...kettle...black
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Two wrongs don't make right. Or do they, Susan?
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  jiberishposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mishara, you're finally smiling!
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL I call it grinning, but who cares at the end - if you liked it
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There you go playing the race card again
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Groundhog Day.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
I have important laundry decisions to make so no time to get in the gutter with "writers"
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does not succeed as a clever quip on many levels. You are correct in what you are doing. Keep aping Beck for your material.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would bet several people are laughing just based upon the emails I have received! Bye Bye now.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of your kind, . I'll bet. It does not say much...they do not say much. That isn't new. But at least you aren't telling people to kill themselves by this point. I'm sure you have been very upset to lose the pleasure of that kind of dialogue.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, how about discussing the topic instead of taking shots at other members?
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cute lol !
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not cute, just following the rules that apply to all members.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are the most abusive member on here for taking shots at other members. Hubstaff know it so stop trying to highlight Lita <snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please refrain from personal attacks. Thank you.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I really doubt it now TK. Rules seem to be applied very selectively, based on a political affiliation, and this seriously disappoints me.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope and expect they will be applied uniformly.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  PMSL !!!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ???????
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How do you come across that theory? A Texan has been banned, Ryan has been banned, PirateGirl has been banned, I don't see them as having one political affiliation.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I did not see Lita banned, and she deserved it several times over. Pam did not exactly shine with her recent posts either. Neither of them were banned, more, Lita keeps hinting on her influence towards HP stuff. I am sort of tired of this.
  
  I am talking political forums here, Ryan or BC don't really count cause Ryan was banned for religious stuff, and BC/CG/PG just generally have rough Thursdays.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Guilty as charged
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  jiberishposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You make things entirely personal, Misha. And more and more are aware of it (including Pam). You do not understand the difference between attacking someone's argument (or lack there of) and attacking them personally. This is not my issue.
  
  What's more, you follow and make it your personal business. I certainly do not ask you to make yourself involved, but you have over and over. You do not have to read what I write to other posters (ie Sufi), and your 'problems' should be solved.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed you were called a jerk the other day and that same poster was here today? Selective, you think?
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, this is one of the instances that really surprised me.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You still get surprised on here, cool
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh well life goes on!
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hinckles komaposted 15 years ago
ok so whos for a woman president after obama. I think they are all puppets in the theater were just the audience. When a lot of women voted for obama i knew that's not a small change in history. who's for a women president? love all and a very interesting topic. And how long till the economy changes, who are we waiting for? I know the elite is set, what about the rest of the people.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  After Obama's second term, I'm definitely for a woman to take the lead.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you're not referring to Palin.
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  BJCposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Condoleeza Rice would be the woman.
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
I'm glad you acknowledged you were just kidding about thinking the 57 states innocent mistake was actually a serious comment.

I'm certain she's much dumber than I am. I can't speak for you.

Now you're concerned with debt? I guess you've forgotten how Bush's spending got us here. But if you really feel that extending unemployment benefits and improving education isn't worth spending money on, I probably won't be able to change your mind.

I disagree on both, especially the latter. I don't think anyone will take the Biggest Mistake crown from Dubya. In fact I don't think there will ever be a close second.

I see. It's a racial problem, eh? Well, don't worry too much. I'm pretty sure the white folk who have guns and take them to church -- and encourage others to do the same -- in addition to waving guns around as close to the president as possible will shoot any black people who get uppity. Yeehaw. Don't mess with Texas.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Smart woman.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I do what I can. LOL
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  <snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think I voted for Bush? What makes you think that? Racial? whatever, back to the racist thing again just slows down whatever speed you were trying to get to.
  
  So do you have anything other than your assumptions?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry. She's already figured out the, uh, situation.
  
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that. I never gave a thought to who you voted for -- especially since you mentioned you didn't vote in the most recent presidential election.
  
  What assumptions?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well to start your assumption that I never said anything about Bush's debt, I was not on Hubpages then so all I could do was bitch about it to people I knew or rants and raves on craigslist, so I did.
  
  I didn't vote in this last election because the choices were baaaaaad! I could have written someones name in but didn't want to stand in line. There was never any fear that Obama would win Texas.
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't assume anything. I asked where you were.
  
  I think you're making excuses for not having written me in.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Shouldn't you be out causing depression or is it the lack of you that causes it?
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not enough serotonin can result in depression.
  
  Lucky for you I'm here.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Makes no difference what you call yourself, I thought it clever to tell the truth.
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jiberishposted 15 years ago
Tex, it's good to see you, where you been?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Banned for my personal opinions, its a form of censorship.
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Yep, in the long term...it is a forum post...nothing more
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But you never answered my question about ACORN
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
Pissed My Self Laughing ??
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You too, I have changed mine
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
Please refrain from personal attacks. I hope I won't have to remind you again.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Change the record !
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So we can get back to the topic then?
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Sure thing
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think the topic of this thread was photoshop.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ewww
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Did she teach Cheney how to hunt?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its not illegal to shoot Lawyers in Texas, its encouraged.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong again, she posted this pic on her own MySpace page.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lie.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  NO
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charlotte … 23234.html
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who else has access to her myspace page?
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who else had access to her email? Der!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you could start another thread to discuss fun with photoshop.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think its so on topic lol !
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  47
  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah no probs TK, but keep yer ass off any of my topics in future ok <snipped - final warning, PirateGirl>. Btw Sarah Palin may have her faults but she deff is one smart lady, just read one of yer hubs, like what ?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please refrain from personal attacks.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think thats what I just warned you about TK !
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
Can you please stop posting that picture, it's making me lose my dinner.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh shuttup, I likes it
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Better yet, maybe we could all post our ideas and opinions instead of post after post of nothing but 'cute' pictures.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, yours are especially entertaining.
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  WOOF !!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The sight of a good looking woman sickens you? Or is it the bikini? The gun?
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't find that attractive in the least... But then again, I am a woman.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thats not attractive? Man, you Canadians have some rigid standards!
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  Sara Tonynposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
Could be stop with all the 'cuteness' and get back to the topic?
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  PirateGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its about Sarah Palin so its on topic !
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago

This one may have been photoshopped
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RooBeeposted 15 years ago
I think a large percentage of people are naturally going to relate more closely with someone who isn't the most intelligent or rational person (such as Mrs. Palin). She doesn't make them feel threatened or afraid. I think they feel as if 'she is one of us' in some way. She played off of that during the election with her "well, I don't know how you guys do business out here in Washington..." bit.
They would rather be fed the whole "I'm sassy and I'm gonna shake things up" song & dance than listen to complicated discussions about true change based on informed decision making.

I think she's probably very smart and successful in the usual sense, I am referring to her as a politician here.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When has a politician ever made you feel threatened or afraid because they were so "intelligent"?
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago

OK, here's the original.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  rofl.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. Super funny . So, about the actual topic...
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jiberishposted 15 years ago
In my opinion, Sarah is smart, personable, and tenacious. Her family values are better than most in Washington, and so the media bashed her because she was a threat. I personally admire her. In saying all this, I believe that she should not run for president, but VP again, with Pawlenty
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with that, wont matter in 2012 we could run a sausage link and win.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That strategy didn't work in '08.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong kinda sausage, old and pasty is a loser.
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  Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Different conditions
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Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago
It's funny you say that, because on many threads as soon as a fact is stated the topic is hijacked.

The pictures are still about Sarah Palin and the thread is about Sarah Palin so...they fit.
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BJCposted 15 years ago
WWW.GOOOH.com is a non-partisan party where the person who is interested in running for public office fills out a questionaire and cannot change their mind on a whim or the whiff of money. Check them out. Tim Cox is from Texas is the founder of this organization.
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
I'm outa here!
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
I sometimes do things without any motivation, just because I feel like that. This may be not something "good", could be quite the opposite. I do have reasons to believe other people are not that different in this regard.
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Sara Tonynposted 15 years ago
Have a good evening, all. Real life beckons.
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caravalhophotoposted 15 years ago
I didn't know there was a Sarah Palin phennomina!
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Could someone please explain the Sarah Palin phenomena.

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Could someone please explain the Sarah Palin phenomena.

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