Anyone got any evidence to suggest he'll be able go dig himself out of the massive damage he has put into motion?
Have you got any evidence that he wont? As the starter of the thread the burden of evidence is placed firmly at your feet.
If you're going to call him out you should put forward your arguments.
It's true. He doesn't care about the second term. He will do as much damage as a muslim terrorist might be able to do- then he will vanish.
Have you seen any poll numbers, do you think those that lost their jobs will stay with him, house loss is the same, higher taxes is what you want, do you want to be told what to do by the gov't. and it goes so much further.
He was setup to fail to begin with. So, subject is moot.
Really? So he applied for a job that he knew nothing about? was he forced to apply? Is he a "patsy"?
So you are saying most President's are set up. They all want to fix something.
That would suggest that Bush was set up to fail as well. Remember the chads?
Personally I am not sure if he can or not, I am truly concerned if we can dig ourselves out of this mess !!
Lack of credible Republican candidates.
Lack of willingness of shack-dwelling rubes to actually get out to vote rather than rant online.
Improvments in every aspect of governing over the idiot who preceded him.
Plenty more available upon request.
You can look up the idiots grades but not the genius.
You should lay off the eggnog. You're talking gibberish.
Intelligent answer. Why has he BLOCKED almost everything in his has? That usually means a person has something to hide and that's not just him.
I think he will repeat as there is not much the Republicans are offering as of yet.
This country re-elected W so I guess if you are looking for any good reason to re-elect Obama don't count on us.
She makes some really kooky assertions just as goofy Al Gore made. Her reference to living next to the Soviet Union as qualifying her to understand foreign relations better than Joe Bidden. And when asked about the Bush Doctrine looked like a deer caught in the headlights. Or when asked what newspapers and journals she read for information she replied "all of them". The list is endless.
I have voted republican before and even for W the first time but Palin is just a dumb candidate for the Republicans to offer up against Obama.
As governor of Alaska she is CIC of the National Guard there, which does have interactions with Soviet aircraft violating our airspace on occasion, just to see what our response will be. Neither Biden nor Obama has that kind of experience. And if you look at a world map from the north pole downward, you will see that Russia is about 2 miles from Alaska and can indeed be seen from there. As far as news sources go, saying she reads "all of them", so? What's wrong with that?
Palin is a brilliant woman and politician. To understand why she says and does the things she does requires an understanding of the dynamics of power.
Maybe the funniest thing I've read this year on Hubpages.
Not at all. Palin is indeed brilliant and does in fact understand the dynamics of power.
What's funny--or not, depending on perspective, I suppose--is how so many have to date underestimated her.
Did you write this with "a tongue in cheek" expression on your face or do you really believe this crap? Sarah Palin is the next George Bush that the Republican party wants us to buy.
Overlook all of her failings and disasters let alone the quiting tendency she has and you will have the next stooly to prop up in front of by the Rebublican party for us to buy.
You are much smarter than the response you gave and I hope the humility to understand that your credibility is greatly in jeopardy if you continue to offer Sarah Palin as a plausible candidate.
There are better people than the mass media injections the two parties have offered over the last few years.
rhamson, your simply citing the same garbage that every other liberal media outlet has pointed out time and time again, over and over again. I'm not a big supporter of Palin either. But she has said sooo much more since after the campaign than during it, and your response seems to suggest you haven't been listening to HER, but rather to her critics.
Every time? I presume that means you've watched every time she's been in front of a microphone right up to the present?
well, Sarah Palin needs a voice coach. that shrillness is enough to send you running for the hills
It only takes a short time to hear her dribble to realize that she is a patsy the Republican party wants us to buy. Too dumb to realize that big busuness is robbing us blind and too stubborn to admit she was wrong.
Because she writes something in a book with a ghost writer doesn't make her any different than she is. McCain was stupid for offering her and I hope the Rebublican party isn't stupid enough to repeat the mistake.
Anybody who's shouting "Palin is worse" actually read Going Rogue? Or are we still basing opinions on (for example) the Katie Couric sound bite?
Palin 2012. All the way.
I'm not about to waste my money on her book. Did she even write any of it? What about all of the reported ummmm, not necessarily true statements that have been documented? Does her lack of integrity trouble you at all?
Are you talking about Obama? Sounds a lot like him.
See that's part of the problem in America Ron. We criticize without listening. I don't like Barack Obama. ThAt's clear. I don't like his policies. His politics do not agree with mine. But I can say that as well of McCain on many points. I can say I didn't agree with Reagan either on all points. I can say that I formed my opinion based on what I hear from the person themselves and the actions they take directly.
As a society we can't just take what the critics say, or what opposing politicians say, or what our favorite talking heads say and make that the gospel truth that defines the person we oppose. I'd rather read a book written by Barack Obama so that I can form a BASIS for my non-support.
You have to keep in mind one main thing here. EVERYONE has an agenda. You HAVE to read, and research, and listen. When we don't do these things is when we really get drug through the mud. How many Americans voted for Barack based on NBC? CNN? How many didn't vote for Barack based on Fox?
We have to be smarter people.
i stated before he won . that if he did . i foresee only one term. jive talk only goes so far . people please er politics . makes for bad decision making.
I'm hoping he's a half-term (or less) President.
I sure hope so!
I'd like to see the U.S. under God's blessing again!
You're implying that God has something against Obama?
Only that it is extremely rare to be a one-term president. Bush Sr did it, but not too many others.
Mike...It might be time to sober up...haven't you heard the latest news...the people reelected g bush for a second term...It is now impossible not to reelected president for a second term.
He will be able to. He has the same approval rating as of Ronald Reagan. Also you mean the damage that was thrown on his lap by the previous administration. He is doing what he thinks is best for America. He did not start 2 wars, or cause the financial crisis. You can look at the previous administration for that again. Reason Dubya had a good start his first year was also because he benefited from the 9/11 tragedy.
Media spin, ACORN,deceased voters,timing on release of "Job Creation Funds," ....Special Interest money....pretty much the same crap that both sides use in one way or another to get elected.
We had Andy Taylor as president...now it's Barney's turn.
I totally agree. He'll be able to make one term!
Not a chance; wait a minute..... If the American people get dumber, he's in. I've only written about 90 Hubs against him. We still don't really know what's in the Stimulus Package.
I hope he can't. I don't want him in again. I am sick of his apologizing, ass kissing, joke of a self.
I am proud of my country and it's past. Too bad if the world doesn't like us. Screw em'!
I don't know that he has done that much damage so far but as far as any change I can't see it. The same stoolies and theives are behind him and we all know they don't want any change so I guess it will be more of the same.
I just hope the republicans can get a decent candidate to run against him. Please, no Palin thank you very much.
We don't really know much of what Palin will do. We know she can balance a budget and get rid of crooks.
That is speculation at best but as far as being a quiter I don't think that will be an easy sell.
Out of at least 200 million possible people to run you can't tell me there is no one better than her.
...and get embroiled in scandals, and quit on her supporters, and ultimately be the final nail in the coffin of GOP presidential aspirations.
God, she is so Sarah Palin!
She cleaned out the corruption, which was most done by her own party. Was that bad!
She quit because of frivelous law suits (allowed in Alaska) filled by Democrat's. She had about a million dollars in legal bills; what would you do?
She balanced the State budget; how many governor's do that?
I believe you could be persuaded to buy the Brooklyn Bridge.............Twice.
I love that Alaskan government holds their governors personally (financially) responsible as a way to keep them in check.
Try that in the white house.
All states, after exhausting their borrowing power, eventually balance their budgets because they don't have the power to print money.
Lowest ratings in the first year of any President ever. It took 4 years to get sick of Dubya and the veep. With his choice of cabinet who do not pay their taxes and blatantly socialists leaning czars people already want him gone
But Dubya was not under 50% before his first year was up
that's the beauty of what is happening now...the other side is seeing what it was like to have what they thought was obviously clear...now both/all sides should have the complete picture...presidents aren't in charge, but just puppets on the string of elitists
Dubya did'nt have a reason to be under 50%. His predecessor did not leave him a mountain of debt and a ocean of problems to deal with. Dubya had money to blow...and he blew it!(Along with the stability of our Nation..no, worse yet.. the World. When you actually work and get things done ,you tend to loose your popularity. President Bush had it made! I know he feels bad about leaving all his crap on Obama (which explains why he has been so quiet.)
Australia, England and much of Europe, Japan and China, Korea, Taiwan all suffered under Bush!
I would only add that America is not reaping the rewards that Bush sold us and that we will be paying for it for years to come.
So shall us Americans presume then that the blame for their mistakes in trusting Bush, is somehow still us Americans fault? Or are you finally placing blame on those countries leaders, and Bush were it belongs? The American people are not to blame as you were earlier trying to set blame with. I hope you can now see that.
Hi IE - How are you keeping?
Tough call, that one - personally, I think Bush and his cohorts have a lot to apologise for, but I certainly don't blame individual Americans for it. It is a similar situation in Greece - the US political structure is hated, for its propping up of the fascist regime, but Americans here on holiday are treated as honoured guests
Bringing us on to the idea that the US should never apologise, Nicholas Burns and Bill Clinton apologised and expressed regret for the US support of the junta - that meant a lot to the Greeks and rebuilt many bridges, so I cannot understand the linking of apology with weakness. Being bold enough to admit mistakes gains respect
Oh my goodness, very well Sufi! Hope I didn't miss you...
I hear what you are saying, however this involves a very controversial war that was highly publicize, that the American people did not want, and that Bush and Cheney ran on their own accord. As an American, I would be highly offended if we were to apologize for something we had no control over. In this instant, we the people were not duped, or blinded to the facts... WE were IGNORED! That we have no control over. So what's to apologize for? I don't go around apologizing for everyone's poor behavior that I see, I only apologize for my own or families damages. If those countries want justice and apologies, then hold those bozo leaders accountable and make them face there wrongs in a trial abroad. Make them pay, out of their pockets for any reimbursements and fines that are deemed necessary. They should pay for their mess. Cheney made billions off this war. Can you now understand it better why so many Americans are opposed to apologizing to anyone on this matter?
Taking responsibility for what the US has done in the past is paramount to the beginning of change. Just because an elected official screws up does not give us the right to distance ourselves from it. "We, The People" elected him and all of his blunders and mishaps are on us. The vote is a living thing as evidenced by many persons defending their politicians and their actions. "We the people" need to be vigilant in following up on the policies and actions of our elected officials and vote them out and make reparations where warranted.
"We the people" need to understand that "we" are the government instead of a separate entity so easily dismissed for its shortcomings.
Wrong wrong wrong....in your world people have to be responsible....no no no this simply will not do!
I am surprised at the ease with which you dismiss the responsiblity of this government and its operatives. The fault "IS OURS". Perhaps this is why we as a people act without a conscience in foreign affairs. Easily accepting half baked theories when war is an issue and destroying societies on a whim is very easy when you don't have to own up to it.
It reminds me of the commercial where the kid says "Give it to Mikey, he'll try anything".
I'm with IE on this, I adamantly feel that if those countries want an apology from us, for how THEIR OWN personal leaders acted- let them wait until hades. The "we's" owe them nothing.
Glad to hear that life is going well.
Don't get me wrong - I actually agree with you about most of that - I do not expect my German friends to apologise for Hitler, nor do I feel the need to apologise for the atrocities that the English committed in Scotland, Ireland, India, Africa...It is more a response to some of the other posts (I had quite a lot to read through and catch up on!) that apologising equates to weakness. It is not applicable in every case, but for diplomacy and wiping the slate clean, is useful.
I guess that you have to take into account the different viewpoints - I have no opinion about Obama's internal policies; that is entirely up to you. However, we are in a different culture and have a different media and perspective here, and Greeks are, so far, delighted with the administration. Hillary Clinton worked wonders in building relations between Turkey and Armenia, which has made this part of the world a little safer.
My main beef is with those who feel that the rest of the world has no right to an opinion about Obama (I stayed away from the political forums for a while, because I was fed up of being called a cowardly, oppressed European!). US international policy affects us all and, at the moment, most folks in this part of the world like the way that the administration is using negotiation rather than intimidation.
Now, apologise or die
I always thought apologies for mistakes were a sign of strength, not weakness.
But ladypant, this is where it gets ignorant. Okay, so the Bush administration left a mess. So who is in office now? Obama. What party is Obama? Democrat. Who controls the House? Democrats. Who controls the Senate? Democrats. How long has this been true? Nearly two years.
So how long will it take for Obama to fix things up do you think? How long will the excuse that it's all Bush's fault be acceptable?
He said he went into Washington to get the work of the American done, so let's start getting it done. If Barack had been hired by a corporate board of directors he'd have been fired already.
When you're right, you're right. Not everything goes left.
Only some people want him gone, the sort of vidictive people who continue to tell outrageous lies and happily destroy their own country doing so. Looks hilarious to those of us who get our info offshore!
it is up to the consciousness of the people to change, to enable change to be made to work this mess out... most of those "in charge" are entrenched within their own mess and ego...it is up to the masses to stand up and see that change is made by taking away continued ability for those in charge to continue their abuses on the system and people...vote them out... and have mass action to cut off the flow of the money to those in charge; are you prepared to do that...they can't put 10 million people in jail for not paying their taxes; they will have to change when they don't have our money to play with
I agree with you! Lets get rid of that multi-millionaire Barack Obama.
That is a nice thought, But I do believe it will take more than 10 million people out of a nation 312 million.
60 Senator's.................for now.
What makes you think he won't? He's about to pass an historic albeit imperfect health care reform bill and soon will sign a finance reform bill. Afghanistan is his achilles heel. There is nothing I can see that would prevent him from completing his term and launching a strong campaign for a second term.
why do people think Obama is supposed to be superman?
Obama is not responsible for you, he is the leader! How can he be successful trying to run a nation of wanna be leaders?
faith and understanding, my friend.
Leader? More like a crammer-down-the-throater.
Our Presiden bares no responsibility for us. You mean like security?
He will win. You have to have somebody to defeat somebody, the GOP has nobody. It is full of infighting and second-raters. Obama's numbers have been bouncing above and below 50% But polls this early don't count. What counts is the opposition candidate. The GOP is at war with itself.
It goes far beyond the GOP, the democrats are fighting, the whole country is dividing
It's not fighting, it is a decision of leadership.
I curious as to why you think he is a one term President.
I dont know its too early for that prediction, I am not sure what shape we will be in by then, at this rate
I'm not too sure that he is doing all that bad. I mean he did inherit one hell of a mess. However, I do think that it is much to early to be speculating on whether or not he is a 1 term President or not. It's not like we haven't seen 1 before, just look at George Bush Sr, I'd like to think that Obama has been a better President than what that joker was. Who knows the American people are fussy. Something I comically refer to as "fair weather fans."
If Holder does not get an Immediate conviction on Khalid Shiek Mohammad I guarantee you the public will be screaming for some heads . What I really do not like is his choices for his cabinet and his czars. America is getting a taste of liberalism and they do not like excaept for a small minority. This is not the change they were seeking.
Could be. But what so wrong with his cabinet? America needed a little more liberalism, so I don't think that is were all the hate rhetoric is coming from. To me it seems like that it is more of a "jealousy of power" thing. Who knows.
He has a cabinet that most of them never paid their taxes like we have to.Most of his czars are sworn communists . This is not speculation this is fact. And Hillary just promised 100 billion to countries that we do not have in Copenhagen. Jealousy has nothing to do with it , common sense does.
Even you will be against Obama, when his doings hit you. Stay tuned.
Though I agree its too early, and I agree he inherited a mess, I disagree that its too early to evaluate what he has done. His sweeping changes are unhinging us as a country as well as economically. I am one of those who opposed his election for his stance on social issues, that being said I was willing to give him a chance. He has done nothing but destructive things since coming in and the chance I was giving him has been blown up. As many others have by his plummeting numbers. Which mean nothing, what really matters is the structural damage he has done !
OMG! "Communist." Seriously now, common on... what the heck?
I'm sorry you just lost me there.
His Rep to the UN made a speech where she praised Mao I saw it on youtube. Van Jones was an avowed communist which is one of the reasons that he got run out of his green jobs czar job . And you might want to check thr resume of Cass Sunstein too . That is just to get you started . I will give you more later
Do you check for communists under your bed every morning? Where do you get this crap?
Oh there's plenty more: Zionist, Kenyan, Facist, Muslim.......
Check the definition of communist.
You know the rhetoric is high with party association. I personally have lost faith in the presidency through the last 2 administrations. I believe our rights and freedoms have been under attack by GW and Obama. There is no earthly way I would defend either mans ability to lead us.
Interesting commentary. Not sure if I'd put Obama in the same league with bozo up there. I think bozo is in a league all his own. Maybe he's communist.
fair enough, he may be. These two men have really hurt this country. We are so divided now, and both of them have helped polarize us. Many conservatives had an issue with Bush, and many liberals now have a problem with Obama. They have successfully divided us into subsections of parties ! Which in my estimation may work out well !
Don't you think we were divided before? I know I do. That had nothing to do with Obama. That had everything to do with John McCain's hate mongering.
I think we have become very divided over the last two administrations. Many people are responsible. Each of the last two presidents have proven to be divisive leaders, even within their own parties. Each has taken liberty from us, Each have failed as leaders though they offended diffrent factions of the populus. Other than me and some others, they both offended us !!!
Here is another reason people are losing their taste for Obama
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 … gery-czar/
Always have to shake my head when people say this. You have the freedom to sit at a computer and type these words, right? I think the high distrust of the government is highly exaggerated, and I do not exactly trust people who question the government 24/7. The reason is if the questioners were in power they might act differently.
Hi, SP. Sigh. Agreed.
The debates on the political forum are basically worthless these days.
Have you seen that Pam Grundy is leaving Hubpages permanently??
I beg your pardon, but I have had wonderful conversation on this subject matter. Very intelligent, and informative debates. I'm not sure whether you have read any of this forum subject matter, however I do think you might find that your comment does not fit the situation in this case.
Personal remark aimed to SP, ma'am...that's why I addressed her. Believe she will get what I was saying.
Well whether you addressed only her or not, I felt compelled to tell you that my conversation on this particular forum subject matter was not worthless. What makes you think you can just sit by and insult a whole group of people, and that'd be okay? After all you were addressing SP... Unfortunately at OUR expense. Thank YOU for ruining a very delightful political debate. Maybe it is YOU who needs to look up the meaning of worthless commentary. Thank you and goodnight.
Presigo- I've really enjoyed our conversation. But I'm not into dealing with trolls. So I'm outta here. We will have to continue this conversation any other time. Good to meet you- Julie
Good heavens! It was a comment (not even particularly perhaps about this thread) addressed directly to SP, for a particular reason. It was your choice whether or not you want to take it personally--which apparently you did--and out of context, even after explained.
I do not have control over your thinking or feeling or conception.
Where's Pam going? We need a sane voice like her.
Wow, I did not know that. I guess she has a new writing job that will take up her time? Sad so many people are leaving, but I can understand why with some things people say on here.
The problem is that this world was already screwed up. Now its hard for any man or woman, leader or follower can fix. I think this world need a miracle, by God.
well thank you, I have appreciated our dialohue here tonight !
yes my friend we grow in understanding when we discuss things with respect and civil dialogue
Yes, we sure do. Would you mind listing your hub for me. I would love to read it.
First time I tried copy pasting, hope this workjs, it is called a call to freedom if it didn't work ! please leave a comment, intelligent conversation helps to make a better hub I believe ! and thank you
Okay, well I just went to your site and saw that hub so I bookmarked it to read just in case. Thank you.
no problem, I hope you enjoy it, I must run, hope to have more conversations in the future, thanks
Wow! What a great hub. I'd like to know what makes you think that we the people have the power to change anything in Washington? We cannot even get some of our Congressman to pay there taxes, as was mention earlier, much less change there mindset and way of taking care of American business. You wrote "It's time for the people to change it, for our leaders will not." Well okay, how? Voting doesn't seem to work anymore. Changing politicians doesn't work anymore. So what's next? Civil war? Who'd do the fighting? Not me, I'd just move to Canada. America is not worth the trouble anymore. Washington is not for the people. Why should the people be for Washington? Moreover, we the people have allow our country to be completely summed up by the indiscretions of our Washington politicians. I feel the people really don't make a difference anymore.
The vote is still the greatest power the people have. We saw that with the Obama election. The people have spoken. End of Story. Do you remember the Reagan Democrats? This Country became divided with the the first Bush WILLY HORTON AD! Obama did nothing to divide this Country, on the contrary, he United this Country because people of all walks of life saw him as a Good Honorable Man. To compare him to Bush is an insult to the intelligence of all of us.
I'm not sure I can convey how sad your response made me feel when I got to the part where you said you'd move to Canada. Sure, Canada is a great place, but to leave because of the current political strife would mean we've lost hope in being able to correct the current state of government. Every single one of our government personnel have sworn to uphold the Constitution, a document where we (the people) described how we (the people) were going to grant authority to the elected to govern.
It seems to me that there are two problems. First, the people have forgotten the nature of our Constitution, and have forgotten that the elected work for us, and have forgotten that we can vote them out. Second the elected have forgotten (or not understood) that the Constituiton grants them limited authority, and that they have sworn to work within that authority.
Please don't move, as I watch representatives and senators voted out, and as I see resignations by politicians indicating the same current disgust for the current government situation, I think there is hope, and perhaps the voters message is getting through.
Please don't move. Stay and vote. And please, read the Constitution when you get a chance.
What was the hub? Would you list it here for me. I would like to read it.
I couldn't agree with you more !! I wrote a hub the other day concerning that issue
Both the republicans and the Dems are concrete reasons why we need a third party.
Well first I did not say I was sospicious of the government 24/7. My words were in regard to the last two gentlemen who held the office of President. Secondly I am certain that most of the world is online so that particular freedom is not unique to our government. And Lastly If you are not suspicious of the government you do not deserve freedom. I believe many of our founding fathers espoused this concept. But again my remarks were in the relatively well defined scope of the LAST TWO ADMINISTRATIONS. Thank you !
ytes, thank you my friend. I tend to ignore such comments, as they detract from the subject matter and everyone ends up fighting. I felt compelled this time, must be getting late !!
I personally think is a fine President. He has done a great deal of good. To many to add on this thread. I hope he isn't a 1 term President.
I appreciate your opinion but I have not seen him do much except mis-speak about police officers, carry forward with Muslim respect, forgetting he is supposed to be representing the USA, and make a whole lot of people angry at him because of narcissism.
If you could just give an example or two of what he's done for America, I'll consider it.
Hi kateperez.. got the money back from AIG, Changed credit card rules and reg., Not enough space to cover all he has done. He has done a great deal. I for one am proud of him and his patience. Specially when you someone unprofessionally shouts out LIER. And he was quite diplomatic about it.
If the economy turns around, Obama will get a second turn. If not, and if the GOP offers a viable candidate, I think Obama will be out. The 2010 mid-term elections will be interesting and could very well be an indication of the 2012 presidential election.
Very funny, I'm keeping up. He makes improvements a great deal of the time. He just improved the credit card policies to help their users. Not to mention helping home buyers, Asked AIG to return the money and publicly got made at them. Etc.. I personally feel for him. In my opinion he definately deserves the Noble Peace Prize. Frienz4lif
The POTUS is in deep right now. The far left is excoriating him, and of course, he's never been liked by the right. I hear that Moveon, Daily Kos, Huff Post, and other progressive sites are giving Obama hell.
Yes! It's because he had to cave in to the sell out Democrats. People are too angry to see he had no choice. He had to sell us out because the Republicans, Leiberman and 4 Democrats were willing to KILL THE BILL and alot of sick and dying people along with it. I think the left will calm dowm once they realize he had to be the President. He has to pass this bill to save lives. All the republicans thought about was making this OBAMA'S WATERLOO! And all the Democratic sellouts thought about was gettin paid!
All good signs for Obama's continued political success. Piss off the extremists and govern from the middle.
The issue is can a president afford to move too far from center. I think the answer is no, because they can't afford to lose the moderates.
I get a mental picture of Pailin breakin out in tongues at a UN meeting!
Maybe we could breed her with that other GOP genius Dan Quayle and start a race of super geniuses! One is a master of geography, the other is quite the speller.
You do have a way with words, Ron, but there seems to be a bit of comprehension lacking on this one. First of all, I'm not sure she's open to breeding outside of her own marriage, unlike some. Secondly, I'm willing to bet a dollar to Obama's single term (though it's worth a lot less than the proverbial doughnut hole) that she has quite a firm grasp on a good deal of geography after her explosively successful book tour--after all, she covered a lot of ground in those 30 days.
Can't say much to defend Quayle. After all, he did have his shot and pretty much made his own bed, whether or not for breeding. But when it comes to Sarah, I'll back the lady who worked her way through college any day.
I read some interesting discussions from political talking heads who say that Hillary is supposedly going to challenge him in 2012 for the dem. nomination. What are your thoughts? Anyone?
if you don't have anything good to say about someone you must be talking about hilary clinton read this online somwhere can't exactly remember where though.
Between these two I'll take the politically smarter one, thats Clinton for those who are wondering.
lets hope that we will be in good shape when we get to 2012 !
If by "we" you mean Republicans, don't hold yer breath. Bush was your last one savor it.
Not being a Republican nor Democrat I find that this aberration known as the Obama Presidency has pretty much ensured a Republican return to the White house.
Republicans have everything needed to reclaim the Whitehouse..........
Except voters (there's not enough teabaggers to make a difference)
and ideas (hating your fellow Americans doesn't really count)
and a candidate (Palin probably wouldn't even win Alaska)
Except for these minor issues it should be a great race.
Who cares for the republicans ? Cause I find them reprehensible as I do the democrats, but this president has done more harm in a single year than anything I could have hoped tyo imagine
So your knowledge of football mirrors your knowledge of politics?
nope i don't even really care about politics i just found "minor details" funny, cause i don't really think "not enough voters" is really "minor"
I think the voters they need will come in the way of independents, most people I know who admit voting for Obama are now admitting they made a horrible mistake. I'm sure the Republicans will not be sending Palin off to try and capture the White house.
Then who? There is no Republican that stands a chance.
Its not up to me to make that choice, but Obama will lose to whomever they do run. This guy had a chance and has shown most of us what he is about, those few who would never turn there back on a Democrat will vote for him, those truly independent have already written him off.
Sadly for you folks, that probably is the best strategy the GOP can come up with- wishful thinking.
That was Obama's strategy! He had nothing but slogans, and we are all going to pay a price for it.
Yes affordable healthcare and fiscal responsibilty is a terrible price to pay. I weep for my country.
Fiscal responsibility? I weep for my country also.
I too weep for OUR country it is sad what is happening
All of this implies there was ever some golden age. Admittedly, since the economic travesty that major banking institutions have wrought on your country, it is fair to say that times are not good to say the least. I am not sure Obama caused this, but rather a joint effort by Bush and Clinton, but that's beside the point.
If someone can tell me when in the last forty years everything was hunky dory I'd be very surprised. It's true that the crime that is Iraq is a long, dark shadow, at the moment (also not caused by Obama), but I don't think there ever *is* a time when America, or anyone else, does not have to tackle serious problems. Don't weep for the country; this is what real life looks like - life is a never-ending train of problems: that's normal.
While I agree that that things have not aleways been hunky dory, this is a tough time for America. I dont blame Obama, I think Bush started our loss of freddom, but what this man has done to perpetuate the situation for US is inexcusable. I cannot begin to believe what all he has shoved down our throats, it is truly apalling
What specifically has he shoved down your throats? I am not trying to be argumentative; can you however list those things in point form, for the sake of clarity?
I will take you at your word about starting trouble, I can be specific, Stimulus, Omnibus, Cap and trade, Apologizing about America everywhere he goes, Health Care Reform, there are a few, but its only been 11 months
What is Omnibus?
What do you object to in the stimulus?
What don't you like about the health bill?
(I won't get into the cap and trade thing, because that is a huge conversation in its own right, but maybe you could briefly answer my second and third questions; just briefly...).
Much appreciated )
The money that it takes to accomplish all of these things is what we object to! Government does not produce,manufacture anything that makes money, they confiscate it from the US citizens! Money,Money,money its the COST! Get it?
You have a right to be angry at the enormous waste and pocketing of money by your governments at all levels, though I assure you the United States is *hardly* unique in the world on this score...
But government has to spend money for *some* things...
Which is why I was wondering about very specific examples.
For me, examples would be subsidies to giant oil corporations that surely do not need them, and propping up financial corporations that have dug their own graves without massively strict conditions on any aid that might be given (neither of which were Obama's ideas, of course).
I just mean that it is easier to discuss specific points or examples rather than making blanket, overall statements.
fair enough, give me a specific, one that you want to debate, and we will take it from there
Government made those decisions, Obama was a part of the Government before he was elected President and voted in favor of those things you are talking about. It will be Obama who will be blamed and that is how it should be. Money and his massive spending of it is what will do him in. You can try and create someone else to blame but Americans KNOW who is at fault!
You're right to hold him accountable. But the US government is a massive set of compromises between two major parties -- so if the government screws up, then you have to accuse both of those parties. Obama has (slightly) more power, so he should get more blame. But he doesn't get all the blame because you don't live in a dictatorship (otherwise there wouldn't be any debate in the House whatsoever).
Democrats hold both houses of congress and the white house, they can do anything they want and the Republicans are powerless to stop it. We will hold Democrats responsible, end of story!
That's not the end of the story because it's not true. If it was, every bill you got would be written in the White House and Rubber stamped in both Houses. This is not what happens, as you know, but a lot of wrangling still has to go on (thank God, I say).
Again, yes logically the Democrats are *more* responsible for any bill passed since Jan 2009, but they are not *solely* responsible.
The apologizing for America part of your comment speaks volumes to me.
For the first time in ages an American President shows he is open to talks, so he is "apologising for America" I watched the same stuff you did. I saw a proud and confident man, not so insecure as to insist his country is the only country in the bloody world!
Frankly someone needs to apologise for Iraq, in any case: apologise to the American families who were lied to and ended up sending their loved ones to die fighting on premises that weren't true.
The only people who should ever hand out apologies for Iraq is Bozo Jr. and Sr., Dick Cheney and C. Rice. The American people owe no apologies to anyone on this matter. No, those 4 need to be held accountable, not the American government or populace. Sorry if I sound touchy, but it is a little touchy subject for my country and me. However, it is not my wish to be rude. Thanks.
He was not in until the end. That is my opinion. Those people new damn good and well what they were doing. I think Rums was duped a little, and blind for the first part of that mess. At one time Donald Rumsfield was a brilliant mind, and worthy of his position. I think he got into a mess with them people, and everything got away from him. That Cheney is something else.
You my friend tell me what poart of your life is affected by the decisions of OUR president. You sling mud at anyone opposed to Obama, and where is your dog in ther race ? Our way of life is changing and you sit over there and tell us how we are suppose to feel about it. You have incredible audacity, I have never presumed to tell you how to live or who in your country is right for you. Sham,e on you and your pompous attempts to intervine in that which does not affect you or your family.
That is pompous and hypocritical as well as bone ignorant. Read something about the rest of the world and stick your nationalistic ferver where the sun don't shine!
Does not affect my family?
A US president sat on codes that could have destroyed the planet since the end of the Second World War. US presidents were the defenders of Europeans not keen on being overrun by the Soviets for fifty years. Australian prime ministers rarely affect Canadians, Brits, Germans, or... anyone else. The world economy has tanked because Wall Street tanked -- like it or not, what happens in America affects everyone.
Too bad you don't get a say in it, huh? I'll cast my vote for you.
Yep! Australia's banks and infrastructure were all but destroyed, we inherited your drug war, (under threat of pharmaceutical tariffs as many other countries did also, we had to send troops to the middle east for all the gulf wars, and lost lives doing so. American politics don't affect Australia? America tells everyone what to do and we are delighted to have a sane American president who has already shown Australia more co operation in 8 months than bush did in 8 years. Read something, go somewhere.
You need to blame your Government for sending troops!
We did Mitch, then we threw them out! The reason we went in was because of the bull we got fed, and our government at the time were as bad as we have had for a long time.
But still, that is on the head of your own men. Maybe you all should of hired smarter individuals. You cannot go around blaming Amercia, because your government was clueless and got duped. That's absurd.
And who did we hire that was so smart? George? Dick? Did you give them the okay at the voting booth?
I think the point is typical Americans are not to blame for decisions our Government makes, we can vote them out but nobody asked my opinion of invading Iraq.
What was your opinion of Dubya before the Iraq invasion? Did you back the invasion? Did you ever speak out about what a terrible mistake it was? Did you have anything to do with Dubya making it to the Whitehouse? If so, then you do bear a certain amount of responsibility for the invasion. I do not think Al Gore, nor John Kerry would have made such an idiotic decision.
Yeah, its my fault for casting a vote for a President, right, what was I thinking? I knew beforehand that we would invade Iraq, yep, I'll take the blame, my bad!
I don't think this person read the whole thread. Maybe they were fooled into thinking their slippery green serpent is from the magical tree of knowledge.
But she's not blaming another country for her governments screw up. Did you read the whole thread before you post? Not an equal opportunist?
Mitch do you read the posts? It was America that did the dupin!
That's great! But you can't throw ours out, so worry about your country not ours.
Why did your country "have to" send troops? Your country did not have to do anything. Your politicans made that choice, not the American populace. Sorry, but to think that we the people of America are responsible for your country's behaviors and troop sending endeavors is giving us a little too much credit. Your country and your countrymen are at fault for that, not America.
It may affect others lives, but it DOES affect my life and my children coming of age in this God forsaken place
Socialized health care, a 787 Billion dollar spending plan or "we would have 10% unemployment"
You'll have to define "socialized" for me, because people use this word in lots of different ways.
And I don't understand the second example the way you have phrased it.
You are probably not up to speed on our politics so you are at an disadvantage, the statement refers to Obama stating that unemployment would not rise above 8% if the spending bill was passed, we are above 10% now, he has no idea what he is doing.
There's no predicting this. The vote is usually roughly fifty-fifty, or fifty-five/forty-five etc. Given this, there is no way of knowing what will happen three years from now. The truth is that the system will always disappoint a gigantic proportion of the population because of this... and it is almost like tossing a coin, frankly, so trying to bet on the right horse this far in advance is futile.
Not exactly, Daddy Bush was one of my one term predictions fairly early into his Presidency. Granted, Clinton got help from Perot, but those were Bush supporters who flew the coop.
I meant more generally, not specifically with reference to "one-term-ness", that when you have a system whereby someone becomes president by a hair's breadth, more-or-less, it is logically difficult to know what's going to happen when November of election year comes around. Bush's victory in 2004 might be a good example; who would have thought that the Democrats could have run such a clueless campaign that they couldn't beat such a walking disaster... there's just no way of knowing what's going to happen -- and your reference to Ross Perot reinforces the point.
Yep, these minor issues will not help those dirty dems!
The handful of noisy haters must be very upset now that America's poor are going to get to a doctor!
Last pathetic gasps of a doomed party. I don't imagine the Chinese dinosaurs went quietly either. (combining threads to be efficient)
Haters ? Whoi my friend are YOU calling a hater. You are an Australian who tells we americans who is right and who is wrong for our country. We live with the decisions the President makes, it is our LIVES that are affected, and you stand on the shores of Australia and tell us we are haters because of the discomfort we live in with this president. How dare you be so presumptious of our lives, an opinion is one thing but do not tell us who we are !
Thoughtful opinions shouldn't scare you regardless of the origin. You don't speak for America
Well if you knew anything at all about the world outside America you would know that Australians are very much affected by what happens in America and many of us have followed it for donkey years!
We take sides in our two party politics, but stop short of telling lies and listening to dumb assed conspiracy theories.
We have heard it all. Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a communist, Obama is not an American, Obama this, Obama that, but we have a traditionally robust press including ABC and BBC, so you know something, so do we. The advantages of an external view is not usually appreciated by extremists.
Marshall McLuhan also once said that Canada was in the unique position of having a window onto America from the outside... he saw this as a valuable thing. And he knew a thing or two about this sort of thing...
I for one am interested in the external view from your country.
prego...are you on nasty drugs???...by god you seem to be.
Are you funny ? Are you looking to be constructive or just have not anything intelectual to say ? Am I on drugs is your pathetic attempt to discredut me ? get to the issues and be constructive or go homne, cause I am not going to listen to silly rhetoric , is that clear ebnough, if so get objective and lets debate
One momento...have to edit your attempted english before i can comment.
Uh...Earnest, America's poor already do get to go to a doctor through a government program, i.e. Medicaid. If that doesn't work, the Emergency Rooms stay fairly busy (although some doctors we know do tell us that the ER shifts, especially at night, are pretty well populated with those seeking narcotics for the sake of narcotics). It's those a step or two up from "the poor" that are without coverage.
Today I was watching CNN and they were covering all the extra fat pork that was added into the Senate's healthcare bill. OMG! Did anyone else notice all the extra crap that states like Nebraska, The Dakotas and Montana are to get? Ridiculous. It's almost not worth paying for. Why can are Senators not act as cut throat prostitutes, and for once do what is right by the American people? Oh this is so aggravating! What makes them Congressman think that healthcare in America is a barter and trade issue? That's not comprising, that is big business.
Agreed. It's like watching sausage being made.
Gosh I know. Nebraska is getting their Medicare or medicade benefits paid 100% indefinitely. What's up with that nonsense? At least put a time limit on the condition. But forever is a little too much to ask or TAKE if you ask me. How do we the people stop them from doing this?
We truly need to make our voices heaqrd . Even if you want government control Health Care, Our Reps need to know how we feel, they don't even know what they are voting on. Somebody start expecting our elected officials to know what they vote on before they bind us !
But they won't listen. They will do what their party has asked of them, and that's both sides of the isle. We the people is an unrealistic ideology anymore. Bozo Jr. proved that, but still the health care bill that they have now agreed upon is full of fat cat garbage. Big money- that we the people cannot afford. Do these Congressman and woman think we are all made of gold? They all are off their rocker. Disappointing day for me. I was expecting them to have done a better job.
According to the Colts fan that's called Fiscal responsibility.
Reducing our deficit (leftovers from the final Republican president) is what I call fiscal responsibility. Those Senators who held the bill hostage for pork should be tarred and feathered along with Lieberman.
Hi so glad to see you tonight ! I must apologize but I am not happy with our president tonight, so was glad to see you weigh in, maybe I will be a little more rational !
So Typical - rhetoric with no or wrong facts. Below is from the Gallop web site. Also there should be some statistic on which President had to take over the biggest mess!
"Thus far in December, Obama has averaged 50% job approval. That is similar to the December averages for Ronald Reagan (49%) and Bill Clinton (53%), who also took office when the economy was struggling."
As One American, I don't find that much wrong with what Obama has done. Money is coming back already from TARP. Housing is improving... It was a mess and I think he has made the right moves....
may I interject, thank you. It's nice for a change to have a Harvard graduate as president rather than a chimp or chimp Jr. Anywho, I would step up and pay a little extra tax if it meant that the poverty striken people in our society can get good healthcare. I would also like to see junk food taxed a few cents, kind of like cigarettes as well as other steps in the way of disease prevention. Really, there are countries who pay alot more taxes than we do but they get free health care. I say take the d--- insurance companies power away and give it back to the people where it belongs. Obama could turn water into wine and you still wouldn't like him. You probably voted for him cause Mealy mouthed McCain and Sarah Palen were just to much to bear. Give the guy a chance.
I think you are right on many points here. However, as our President he should not pass a bill that has been so horribly handled by our fellow Congressmen and women. What they have done to the health care reform bill is a crying shame.
The American people have not done this, It is the last two amkerican presidents who have. There is no blood on American hands, not the people
The problem is that this is true. But unfortunately, I am not sure that this is how things work.
In other words, imagine a country invades the US, let us say, a Muslim country. Now, imagine that most Muslims in that country do not want a war with anyone, in fact what they want is to be left in peace to watch their favourite soap operas, watch soccer games, look for work, go shopping, etc. They don't want to be dragged into a war.
Now, let us say that, some time later, that country says "Look, we the people of country x didn't want to go to war anyway, it was our leaders." Let's say it was true. Wouldn't Americans want an apology, ANYWAY.
I am not saying Obama SHOULD apologise, I am just saying that there is some logic to it, when seen from somewhere OUTSIDE America...
We would want an apology from those who made the decision! Blaming America for the problems in your Country just says your country is weak, quit depending on the US and do for yourselves!
I'm not blaming America for what's going on in my country. In fact, in my country of Canada, we actually had tight regulatory control over our banks, so none of them fell, and none of them needed bailing out, and we had no foreclosure crisis; and our recession was the least severe in the world as a result. The Canadian government of the time chose not to go to Iraq (but is in Afghanistan, despite the fact that Canada has never been subject to a terrorist attack, but is there as an ally of the US solely), but if it had chosen to go to Iraq I assure you we would have blamed our own leaders, and not yours, for Canadians losing their lives for a lie!
The Canadians did however give bailout money to the US auto companies operating here, so that is two levels on which *we* are helping *you*:
- the US auto company bailout.
...and Australians I presume (and Spaniards, and Brits) were also in Iraq in support of the US, despite the fact that they only suffered terrorist attacks (Spain and Britain) *because* of their involvement in Iraq!
When Hurricaen Katrina struck, Bangladesh, one of the poorest countries in the world, sent you aid.
So just slow down there with this ranting -- the world has lent you a hand on many occasions; it cuts both ways.
Canada owns a piece of GM, they will get a return on their investment and if not, too bad, they made a bad investment.
Man, listen. When September 11th hit, the world came out in support of you. If you're going to spit in the face of all the examples I just gave then this conversation has become disrespectful to all the Canadian troops who are in Afghanistan simply because Canada considers that this is what you do when you are a US ally. Same goes for the British, the Australians, and anyone else who GIVES UP THE LIVES OF ITS CITIZENS IN SUPPORT OF YOU. We don't have to agree on everything, but your attitude is rude. Canadian mothers weep all over this country for sons and daughters fighting al Qaeda and the Taliban - two groups that barely even know Canada exists... but whose purpose is America's destruction.
Have some respect.
Respect? You are complaining that those troops are there defending the American way of life, I am pointing out to you that the US has done more for the world than the world has done for us and we still get spit on by our allies! I'm thankful for the Canadian troops that are there, but it isn't Americas choice to send them!
My God, I just said that myself! You are confusing me with earnesthub. And I didn't say for a second that I was complaining... except about *your* attitude specifically (you as an individual, not America as a whole).
I invite some fellow Americans to respond to the comment:
"I am pointing out to you that the US has done more for the world than the world has done for us and we still get spit on by our allies!"
AdsenseStrategies, I am an American. You know of course, that many of us appreciate every country's effort to give America support in both wars, whether they were righteous or not. Quite a few of are also saddened these same countries lost citizens for a war which should not have been.
My father fought in WW II, D-Day, Omaha Beach, helped liberate France, Battle of the Bulge, Germany invasion, under George Patton and so on. We have to help each other if we wish to remain civilized people.
Sounds good to me. And I think any European with any sense is enormously grateful to the sacrifice of Americans in Europe during the nineteen-forties, but also for the large amount of infrastructure funding that was poured in after the War, to rebuild a destroyed continent.
Having grown up in Britain, I also am very grateful that the US stood in the way of the Soviets, because I am sure Stalin would have made it to Dublin if it hadn't been for American opposition.
There is another segment of "the poor," in relevance to healthcare and they are the ones who barely make it from paycheck to paycheck but they have a job and don't qualify for medicaid, they can't afford the insurance rates either. Four hundred dollars per month to insure a husband and wife is alot of money when you are trying to pay a mortgage plus car insurance and other bills. Health insurance companies will keep raising those rates and more people will have to go without insurance and many will die. That's why health reform is important, yes the bill is pretty mangled but it's something and if it stays alive it can go into reconciliation, if it dies it will be another 10 or 20 years before we have another chance to change the situation for the better. Meantime the insurance companies will keep killing off those who can't afford their rates.
I wonder how much aid Bangladesh has received from the US, I'm sure whatever they sent was a pittance compared to what they have taken!
Earlier in this forum, you guys were discussing the health care bill. Since there's so much heated debate about it here in the US, why not let the people vote on it?
Liberals dont want us to vote because they are having a serious power grab. They dont think we are smart enough to figure out what is best for ourselves and our families.
Bill Maher made an amusing point about how Sarah Palin felt she should never have to apologize for American "exceptionalism". Basically, Palin and others were mad Obama apologized on foreign soil, a grave sin in their books.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mahe … 64695.html
Obama is a sad figure for many Europeans. He seems to grasp the realities of what is happening in the world but is mired in the strange fantasies of a continent so immured in the 18th Century that he cannot act.
I am sure other Europeans do not consider him a sad figure. A bit harsh I think is your analysis. He is trying to make a bridge, and not a sad figure at all. Oh well, I admire the man so much, so if you do not like it, get over it!
"What we have here is...failure to communicate"
I am an intelligent woman that communicates quite well Ron and others poking fun at me. How cool are you to put others down. The poster above will just have to get over the fact some people like Obama.
You have misunderstood. I didn't put you or anyone else down. I pointed out that you and Will weren't quite on the same page. Will is in fact praising Obama in his post, not putting him down.
Well I read it, and to some extent I think he thinks Obama is trying, but is some how mired in a continent, the US, that is still stuck in the past. Every continent can be accused of that, to some extent. Maybe I overreacted, but in these forums people are so quick to poking fun at others at one's expense, so it never hurts to be careful.
There is another issue avoided.
To spell it out American exceptionalism= a strange idea that the clever, clever dangerous world outside can be negated by keeping your eyes tightly closed and mumbling incantations of whatever kind you wish.
Any leader who wants to move things along a little is going to meet an unholy alliance of ignorance and vested interest.
An unholy alliance of ignorance and vested interest........
My God! You've just defined Sarah Palin!
Yes this is Sarah Palin. Has anyone read her Facebook messages? Those are quite amusing by the way!
Personally, I think ALL of the politicians are amusing...that's better than taking any of them seriously, lol...
I admire Obama and do take him seriously, nothing wrong with that. Palin is amusing, on the other hand, because she is such a big climate change denier. I have had quite a few preaching to me over the last couple of days, and they all seem to hold her in very high esteem.
Yes, I know you take Obama seriously, you've made that abundantly clear, lol. Thing is, just like Palin--he is a politician--and like most, if not all politicians, they say what they think the "American People" want to hear, to get elected.
Can you tell I am very jaded to this whole political scene? Every four years, it's the same thing...promises, promises, promises...then little to no follow through.
I don't like nor dislike Obama--to me, he's like every President before him. I hope he does do something positive for this nation--but so far, I've seen no sign of it.
But that's just MY opinion...
Working towards health care reform is positive for one. On the other hand, having another leader like Bush is not what I want, and that was bad for our nation. Also, I am a very realistic one, so I never put to much hope on some promises. My mom promised to take me to the beach one summer and we never made it. Was I jaded about that and upset because we did not go? I eventually got over it. To me exercising the right to vote and picking the right candidate is vital to the health of the nation.
Being apathetic or even luke warm towards Obama will guarantee the GOP with nominate a very strong candidate in 2012, and yes he will be worse than Bush with the type of propaganda going on at the moment. Being politically involved is very important to me, and I will always vote for the best candidate. Obama is really trying to get us out of this mess, and it does not help when we have a conservative senators standing in the way of a public option.
Also, people forget how it took ten full years for the US to come out of the Great Depression, but in our modern culture people want instantaneous results. People are ready to throw out the baby with the bath water, and not acknowledge that some change is better than more of the worst, which is what Palin and McCain would have been.
If you are always going to vote for the best candidate--will you vote for that person, no matter which party they are? Or if they are running as an independent?
That is what I do--I don't follow any political lines. So see, that doesn't make me apathetic or lukewarm towards Obama at all. I feel I am being as realistic, and open-minded as I can be.
And, of course, I also never put too much hope on promises...I thought I had made that clear.
My opinion is merely that--my opinion. Just as yours is yours. You don't agree with mine, and I don't agree with yours.
I will leave it at that--I am not a debater, and I have no interest in becoming one.
I am not debating you. However, being a loyal Democrat is not bad as this is the party that represents most of the change I am for, such as health care reform. Never said you were unrealistic, but I know people like to state that those who belong to a certain party are. You can be an independent, but I prefer to vote for candidates that belong to a party that promotes ideals I am okay with. Clinton, Gore, and Obama were all candidates I wanted to see in office, and they were the best ones running in those years. Believe it or not I was not overly excited about John Kerry, but I wish I had not been apathetic and not voted for him. If more people had voted for Kerry maybe we could have kept Bush out of office. Obama was the best candidate this time around, and I do appreciate his work towards change.
Ah'm a votin' fer Palin muh self. She got a purty mouth.
by christianajohan 7 years ago
I heard there are still many supporters of Obama these days.
by lady_love158 9 years ago
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/235 … n-history-Sure he's still popular in Europe but if this piece from the UK is any indication that's likely to change! With Obama's 2012 campaign in full swing it's not likely he'll do anything to upset his base but that also means he probably wont be...
by pisean282311 8 years ago
what are ur views for this guys?
by Jimbo'daNimbo 7 years ago
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 … istration/His boys screwed up and the most useless Attorney General we have ever had is why. However the buck is supposed to stop on the desk of the President.
by Castlepaloma 9 years ago
Who should win the ED Wood Award for the Worst President ever?My pick- GW Bush he is like a bad Movie, worst than planet 9.1.GW. Bush IQ is the Worst IQ President in the last 50 years.2.Iraq the 2nd Most Expensive War in American History.3.Bush doubled the national debt4.Bush will go down as the...
by nicomp really 10 years ago
Obama: ‘Don’t Want the Folks Who Created the Mess to Do a Lot of Talking’http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dont-want … f-talking/Not a sound bite, not edited, not taken out of context.
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