Should Government employees be disallowed from using the Fifth Amendment?
Recently Attorney General Loretta Lynch took the 5th p, declining to comply with an investigation by leading members of Congress about the Obama administration’s secret efforts to send Iran $1.7 billion in cash earlier this year, prompting accusations that Lynch has “pleaded the Fifth” Amendment to avoid incriminating herself over these payments. This is taxpayer money and we taxpayers have the right to know.
No, no matter how despicable the crime the constitution needs to cover every citizen. If we pick and choose what part of the constitution we will honor then what will that make us (maybe Democrats?). If they offer immunity to her would the fifth amendment apply?
I agree with Michael, however Congress should pass a law that says if you are employed by the gov't & take the fifth you must resign without benefits.After all there are rules gov't employees must follow,why can;t they make that one.
If government employees are citizens and deserve the rights then they also should be punished the same way. They can't have the same rights and then be above the law.
are citizens punished for taking the 5th???
so, we should make a special law that punishes gvt workers?
Independent here.We distrust ALL politicians.Read Bugliosi's book. I believe 100% Bush shd hve been chged w/ murder (Iraq war) & Cheney shd hve been hung in the Town Sq 4 his blatant THEFT of blood $$. Our Vet's blood. JUSTICE 4 ALL is my mantra.
I do NOT believe that party loyalty should direct how we SEE the truth or facts.Look at the MESS we're in becuz this is what is done. If it's wrong--a crime--oppression--LIES--theft..then it's WRONG. No matter WHO or what party. I'll never falter.
well maybe you understand the total anguish then. having lived through both bushs, and nothing done.but clinton is impeached, and obama and hillary have no respite from investigations. you would think democrats are crooks and republicans pure as snow
Paula, I completely agree that blind party loyalty is a huge part of the reason our government is so corrupt. Many are willing to forgive anything for their party, but condemn everything done by the other party. I don't trust either party.
well, calling an opponent crooked, and you should be in jail, when im elected i will prosecute you. "yay!""lock her up", while hes facing 2 trials...the rift is never going away
LMC...Trump has spent his entire adult life suing people & being sued....accusing people & being accused. Being in a court room & standing before a judge w/ his team of billion $ lawyers~for the Donald, is like a mini Hawaiian vacation.
well, his supporters havent. some outlet, is it breitbart? (would make sense, monetize the hate. so american!) sell t shirts w hillary for prison, hillary is a c* nt, and trump can grab my ***. this frenzy of hate from people with guns is frightening
Leslie are you saying that the hatred from the liberals with guns is not frightening? Many liberals do own guns in case you didn't know that.
i havent seen one liberal threaten to "water the tree of liberty." plenty of rw do. latest being rep joe walsh, and the dumpster trumpster himself
Whatever Leslie. Your mind is made up no matter what.
could anyone change you or paulas mind about hillary? your mind is made up, too.
U R right lmc! Nothing, short of a lobotomy, could make me C HRC as other than AN ugly,crooked,lying,sneaky,greedy, power hungry, back-stabbing,thieving,disingenuous,demonic sociopath she is I knew she was ALL this YRS ago.(NY State!!)
Save UR time listing all DT's flaws. I wouldn't argue w/ U. We're called INDEPENDENTS 4 a reason. Using one's own faculties, intelligence, common sense, reason, research, attentiveness, brutal HONESTY, fair-mindedness & noting the 800 lb. gorilla
What's wrong 4 1 is wrong 4 the other, despite Party! A lie is a lie from either mouth, corruption has the same stench from Libs or R.W'ers. How would anyone not understand this? Unconditional LOVE & loyalty is 4 family only~ NOT POLITICIANS!!
because when you tell us hillary lied, we dont believe you. when we tell you trump lied, you dont believe us. and because since 2000, people who criticize bush are called america and troop haters. people who criticize obama call themselves patriots.
no way. shes still a us citizen, no matter her job. they are just people. and our tax dollars have gone for 8 years of elect republicans campaign from the us congress. we have a right to have our money spent on governing, not partisan politics.
How is being caught for her part of an illegal monetization action partisan politics? The funds are not a secret
im talking about the billions your republicans have spent our money on going after their political rivals.
Leslie, that money is already there. I would rather it be spent on 'going after her' than for them sitting around having donuts and Starbucks while waiting for something to happen.
oh i see. well, i disagree. who wins? the party in charge.
If "they're just people like us" then everything should always apply to them the identical way it applies to us ALL the time. When was the last time UR butt was carted in a limo?Who gives U special privileges & treatment? Secret Ser protect us?
i havent had a man protesting outside my office with a gun, either. nor have my private emails been broadcast for the world to see. nor do i receive death threats on my phone, or worry about retribution against my family.
That comes with a the territory - doesn't justify the lavishness
all bad, no good? nah, not unless you want to reign in business ceos who rely on us gvt tax expenditures? make money off us, pay no taxes.
businesses are not government Leslie - private owned enterprises aren't subjected to the same level of scrutiny as those who spend taxpayer dollars
nor do they have to respect the first amendment! what a gig, huh?
and biz spends PLENTY of tax dollars. and they skip out on taxes, thereby raising them for others.
I think most businesses respect Freedom of Speech....not sure why you introduced the 1st AD into your narrative though
hullo...were in a place where a mob can shut your voice. hubpages.
stop playing the blame game - despite HP always at my heels, I'm able to get my message out.
there is not a concerted effort to remove you. but if there was, i wonder if youd then care? it is a freedom of speech issue. mob mentality vs my right to express political views.
Them taking the 5th says a lot about their guilt, but where would you draw the line. When we say Government Employees are we talking Federal, State, and local?
I hate to say it but their rights as a citizen should not be voided just because they work for a Government agency.
Good points throughout - there would need to be some guidelines
If they deserve the same rights, they deserve the same punishments. NO special treatment.
priests dont have to disclose, even if they know someone is guilty....and churches are exempt from taxes. isnt that even worse special treatment?
Religion & Politics = Apples & Oranges.BUT, I believe it's BS that priests claim the sanctity of a confession. It's WRONG to protect any1 admitting 2 a crime! Besides, 4 the right $$...priests TALK too! The whole world is crooked & unbala
if its apples and oranges, id sure like to know why gvt employees use religion to make laws.
Because they CAN. Just like everything else they do that they should not do! & BTW, we obviously sit by & Let them! of course they believe the ave.Amer person is stupid. If we're not stupid, how'd we end up w/ these 2?! Rest my case.
in my opinion, because too many people think gvt is their personal servant. think everything they believe should be law of the land for everybody. and if what they believe isnt law, why then no one can have anything at all.
Everyone should have the right to plead the fifth. The problem was the FBI and other agencies giving immunity deals without making sure they got all of the information or assets with data, nor bothering to enforce them when people received immunity but then refused to spill the beans.
You're asking me, of all people something about what I think Gov't employees should & should not be allowed to or not do? OK, Fine. Here goes........
1. Government in general should be reduced to HALF the size it is. The sheer number is far too many......an enormous amount of waste $$!
2. Their retirement should be the very same as every American citizen who worked for a living....S.S, possibly their health Insurance carried over and a "reasonable" pension. No frills, no excesses, no special treatment of any kind. When you've retired, you are no ;longer a Gov't employee. Period.
3. There is no need for limos, private jets and outrageous expense accounts for ANY reason that has nothing to do with their specific responsibility in their position. NO hundred thousand $$ lavish parties & vacations.
4. Our Nations laws...all of them....as they exist apply to each and every American citizen in the same way, for the same reasons according to the same procedures. Punishments, penalties or sentences no different for Gov/t employees than for you and I and Joe 6-pack,
5. If using the 5th amendment interferes with or obstructs them from making statements that the American public has a right and need to know.....as OUR employees....they may NOT invoke the 5th. An entire Nation depends upon their truthful answers! They work for US!
There's more, much more, but this is a good sampling. Paula
#5 You can't take away or deny a citizen's constitutional right, but you can require terms of employment like taking the fifth is grounds for termination and forfeit of all future and accrued benefits, pension, pay, bonuses etc., I think.
"there must be some form of punishment"
sounds familiar. and what IS the punishment "regular" people face for invoking the 5th?
Paula, I like what you wrote. I would like to see more.
DTMB...That would work too!
Leslie..I don't know, but is it fair in UR opinion that they be exempt from what we must adhere to? How R they different or better than the people they work for?
Greg....I guess we can always dream, can't we? It's crazy!
but is there a punishment for us, thats what im asking. if not, how is it fair to punish them?
I didn't mention there should B "punishment" 4 using the 5th. But when any of us DO....or refuse a polygraph, you know that's USED against someone. We all have the right BUT, it always LOOKS bad....implies hiding truth or saving butt. Right?
yes. but there are myriad reasons for anything. gvt in america is looked on as the demon from hell, and people outside who uses it for nefarious gain are seen as "smart". and not by accident."gvt is the problem" is 30 yr propganda
30 yrs~Yes~which is the same 30 yrs UR girl has been involved w/ Gov't. So pls don't say she's not a big part of our mess! & all the others in between I know. So...what U want so passionately is 4 more yrs of the SAME? C'mon leslie.
but she is one who thinks gvt can be a force for good. she has been oppossed to the gvt is bad crowd. and honestly, if i had my preferance, i want 2americas. it is idiotic to have neverending fights about how we live. as it is, i want far away from r
Good idea, Leslie. This country is too big and wieldy. Shall we split it along the Continental Divide? Shall conservatives live on one side and liberals on the other? Just don't send me where it's cold, please.
If you don't like this country and make it better, move to Canada with the rest of the Liberals that won't be able to stand it the way Trump will make it.
no, you can leave greg. its your side that spits on the us of a by thinking you can override the will of the people. and mz b, what would you suggest, endless fighting just to live our lives? when one half says the other half doesnt matter, times up
I'm still considering the idea about automatically firing a government employee for practicing their 5th amendment right. Would we fire them for practicing their religion (1st) or for legally carrying a firearm (2nd). Why the 5th?
well, apparently, people will need a religious test to get in the country....how far before it spreads to gvt employees?
Ok, I thought about it. Firing a govt employee, revoking retirement and other benefits would not hold up in court. Govt can't run around coercing people into surrendering their rights. That would be a horrible form of power to legalize.
i think trump n them prefer "second amendment solutions"
Really Leslie? What do you have to back up that comment?
Chris mills,any government employer can force the government employee to testify against him/herself in an employment proceeding or be fired.Look it up & there isn't any protection from discharge for an employee of a private company.
DTMB, it's a gray area.
"The Court (USSC) found that the officers’
waivers of Fifth Amendment protections were
coerced and could not be sustained as voluntary.
The convictions were reversed. " goo.gl/zVlNYF So your absolute statement is false.
since tea party, see these people protesting w signs, "water the tree of liberty", "we wont shoot..this time", show up to obama events strapped. trump says u second amend people can do sonething if she wins,if she wins, im grabbing musket, "hang her"
At what point does the system break down so that we have a rogue governmemt that answers to no one? If the top enforcement officer of the US, the attorney general, broke the law, what alternatives do we have? It is like the fox guarding the chicken coop. Our government is broken beyond repair. Back to the basics. Actions must have consequences and it starts from the bottom to the top. Once we allow people in government to skate for wrong doing, what do you expect? corruption breeds more corruption.
hello! been there, done that! ag gonzales lied about bush adm illegal wiretapping. NOTHING happened to him, because 1. republican house, senate, prez. 2. i think u want her only because shes dem! partisan use of OUR money!(dems are americans, too)
The list of corrupt agencies are many-
Here are the top 10.
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/01/top … nment.html
Regardless of which party is in office, corruption and abuse of power is bad for our country.
but it only seems to be investigated under one. and if the party in power is doing the corrupting, it goes on as if entitled. btw, there are corrupt outra gvt agencies w just as much power. nra, alec, aipac, and pac's come to mind. and the rich.
Why do we have to turn every little thing into such a big hairy deal? Its just that the GOP have always spent SO MUCH money digging into 'investigations' that they are SURE are rampant within the opposing forces of the government. It looks/seems to me that this would have been ransom money for hostages. It doesn't look like they were trying to make an underhanded 'deal' with Iran in a treasonous way, or whatever it is that conspiracy theoriest are thinking.
Do the American people have a 'right' to know since it is taxpayers money? Honestly, it doesn't seem like something I need to know. I'm probably guessing right; and negotiation with Iran is never easy. I, for one, don't have a problem with it in this case.
Pleading the 5th is a right that I have frankly never quite understood, anyway. If someone knows something, they should HAVE to say what they know and tell the truth. But in this case, it looks to me that Loretta believes she is doing her job; and no, I don't think she should loose her retirement benefits for that.
I think that is fine if they want to walk on out of the government and away from their jobs and responsibility to us but if they are staying they need to talk and we deserve the truth or all we are going to have is more of this same corruption til there is no end, much as it is now!
They are US citizens. No one should be stripped of their Rights and no one should be considered above the law. I know that felons have been stripped of certain rights, but that goes beyond this question. It would be a slippery slope if we began withdrawing rights from certain groups of citizens. One of the unique qualities of our country is that we are all endowed with certain inalienable rights.
Regarding Govt employees' loss of job, retirement, benefits, etc for taking the fifth, the US Sup Ct has ruled it unconstitutional although the DOJ has thumbed its nose at the court for years on this. Full article on topic at goo.gl/zVlNYF .
Considering members of Congress released the names of doctors who perform legal abortions, putting their lives in danger, I have no problem with administrators withholding sensitive information from the clown show that is the US Congress. Half of what Congress is doing is for political gain these days and not for any form of justice.
Consider Benghazi, Congress cuts $300 million from the security budget for embassies, then shifts the entirety of the blame to Clinton for not providing ample security for embassies. What did Congress think would happen with less money available for protection?
Until reps can show they are not acting for partisan reasons, they don't deserve any respect.
What justification is there from taking away their Constitutional right to please the 5th Amendment? I don't support taking away people's Constitutional rights. They are there for a reason.
In any other area of Government, as with private employers, not complying with an internal investigation, whether implicitly or not, would bring termination. You cannot give up your 5th amendment right. You can forgo it, but can go back to it at any time.
However, they should be told that if they have to invoke their 5th amendment, they must then answer the questions to there departments respective Inspector General, under oath, or face immediate termination.
jdavis, here is a NY Law Journal art about term of govt emp who take 5th. goo.gl/zVlNYF. USSC says it's unconstitutional. As you say, they must cooperate with the investigators if they take 5th, but appears term is not allowed. Not so in pvt sector
Them taking the 5th says a lot about their guilt, but where would you draw the line. When we say Government Employees are we talking Federal, State, and local?
No Leslie - it's a bipartisan issue - anyone in government taking the fifth is immediately interpreted by the populace as being guilty anyway
not by me. anyone whos been accused of something knows how people can twist things around. you can indict a ham sandwich is true.individual before state.
tell me why Loretta lynch took the 5th when she was questioned about the illegal payments Obama made to Iran?
How about telling us why Hillary's IT experts took the 5th then? It's not about twisting things when you are at a hearing - that's why they use yes or no questions.
Name an example of someone who took the 5th for another reason other than to keep from incriminating themselves
those payments werent illegal. it was their money we returned as part of the nuclear agreement. at least iran didnt hack the dnc!! roves IT was going to testify...he ended up dead. u remember the 22 million, right?#rovedeathlist
It's the present Leslie - Rove is not running or in office. If the payments were legal as you say, why then were they made in foreign currency and hidden from oversight? Try another lie
but he committef a crime, according to you. at a much higher scale than hillary. you overlook that crime when its con venient?
which crime was Rove brought up on charges of? What evidence was shown to America? Pay for Play in the Clinton State Department has been documented...
documented by who? wikileaks? PASS. rove was not brought up on charges. but he used a private server run by the rnc, and he deleted (lost) 4 yrs worth of emails. 22 million! no charges because republicans in charge. same reason why clinton charged.
She has the right to plead the 5th. But, I think that all taxpayer money spent should be public record. How come this was not public information in the first place?
Regardless whomever the government employee is they should not be denied their constitutional rights because of their job.
"A government of the people, by the people, for the people."
Serving the people doesn't mean you're no longer one of them.
This shouldn't be a partisan issue but a constitutional right issue.
Many police departments have a policy that any officer who pleads the fifth gets fired. "Bad" officers could lose their job by pleading the fifth, commiting perjury or telling the unvarnished truth. Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
The USSC has ruled specifically regarding police. can't be coerced into waving 5th am rights by threat of losing job. it's done any way. goo.gl/zVlNYF
While it would be nice, I also don't want to infringe on their right, I would rather have trustworthy people in politics to begin with.
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