This is an unfolding story, but it is obvious based on the attempted attack on GeorgeSoros recently, that is has political overtones.
Is it not more than a coincidence that both Obama and Clinton received similar packages?
The rightwinger will claim that all of this is just an aberration, but I say when pressed this behavior basically defines who and what the Right IS.
In the pursuit of justice, heads are going to roll, as they need to, as the perpetrator and his or her motives are revealed for the country to see.
It starts at the top. Will he be able to consistently condemn these attacks or will he end of fanning the flames? Unfortunately, my guess is the latter. We will see.
All we are going to get from the Trump administration are the standard bromides. He and his administration are the head of the serpent and makes the political climate palatable for these outrageous attacks.
Actually? Trump all of his life as I know it from or NY and NJ media since his early childhood shows him to be a very lazy man. He gets others to do it all for him and has since the day he got expelled from a military school for getting another student to take his exams for him.
But, the thing about him that is most unnoticed is those in the background who do his bidding so willingly. How often has he EVER been seen without bodyguards? And why did he always need them if he didn't make enemies everywhere he goes?
How often do you see him without his trusty flunkies and lackies always around him? The only time you don't see them is when he is showing off in front of his "audiences" of which he spends most of his WH time these days.
If confined to solitary in a prison, he'd go mad within hours. Count on it.
I have always said, Ewent, I have lived through many Chief Executives that I have had differences with politically. But this is the first time that we have a President who not only rubs me the wrong way politically, but one lacking in the character and demeanor that I would associate with the President of the United States.
He reminds me a great deal of our 17th President, Andrew Johnson.
Extremists on both the right and the left have been the source of much violence throughout history. Our country is no different.
I'm concerned that "explosive devices" sent to Democrats like Obama, Clinton and Soros have taken extremism by the far right to a new level. But to claim that everyone on the right is a "thug" is taking it too far.
This sort of violence has been surreptitiously enabled by Trump and the tone that he sets.
I am sorry, Promisem, but looking at Ruby Ridges and Oklahoma City's, even going back to Alan Berg's murder in Denver back in 1984, the only difference between a rightist advocate and a rightist extremist is one happens to be a bit more polite and is not in a state of desperation, for the moment. But, as the pressure mounts and politics do not go their way, they will take up the gun, the pipe bomb, whatever to have his way and the democratic process be damned.
When I worked for a lobbying firm, I heard so many angry right wingers on the phone stating just that...we will get guns and march on the White House, etc. Many of them were what I would consider older folks. These people are encouraged by Trump. I condemn all violence but the truth needs to be stated.
There's certainly been no shyness here by those calling out left wing violence. I mean we already have someone here blaming it on a "leftist deep state."
I mostly agree with your response. But my main point remains about the headline. I am right of center, like many people, and I don't believe I'm a thug.
Promisem, you are not one of THEM. You recognize Trump, his administration and his methods and have expressed disdain for it all.
You represent the last of the "passenger pigeon" a moderate and extinct species that can no longer exists in the Trump universe.
Check out "who" was hired by the RNC in 2016 as the Maggot Man's bodyguard, the guy known to any of those who spoke too freely about his lordship Maggot Man, Killer Keith Schiller.
Google him and you'll see that he masterminded several threats and intimidations of those who refused to stand down to the Donald.
There is one thing about these bombings that may be overlooked. The areas of NY, DC and FL. Now who do we know who has businesses and properties in these states if not Maggot Man?
Since several of the suspicious packages were mailed from a DC post office and had Debbie Wasserman Schultz's return address on them, this entire bombing threat is Maggot Man's ideal situation.
He can play the savior who saved 2 former presidents and their wives from death and then get his now untrustworthy FBI to do his bidding and find some Trump flunkies to blame. All while he continues to blame the Free press he so hates and his veiled references to Dems as terrorists.
Then, there is the matter of the most crucial evidence. Not 2 days before these bombs were mailed out, it was Trump who needed most a diversion of public attention from his son-in-laws connections to the Saudi assassin Prince.
When you think about Trump, you think of evil as being his chief purpose for living.
No leftist would EVER chance the deaths of the Clintons, Obamas, John Brennan, Maxine Waters or anyone else in their own party.
No leftist is that stupid. But would you bank on the fact that the now bully SS Brown Shirts, Proud Boys, who have been beating up on voters trying to place their votes, gay men and others who refuse to be intimidated by a bunch of 30 something lazy bums with no jobs, no high school diplomas and nothing but their sneering pusses and rage these mentally deranged nuts cannot even identify other than to be incited by the Maggot Man himself.
"In the pursuit of justice, heads are going to roll, as they need to, as the perpetrator and his or her motives are revealed for the country to see."
I agree with your this statement. Although, once again we should not reach any conclusions on who did this... It is so inflammatory to point the finger until we have some facts presented. There is certainly enough blame to go round is there not?
Gee, please don't ever try for a job at the FBI. 3 days after it was announced by several media sources that George Soros donated $500 million to the Dems running for office, he gets a pipe bomb?
And only 2 days after Trump told Lesley Stahl on 60 Minutes "we need another "event" to bring unity to the country" and 1 day after he declared himself a "Nationalist" John Brennan, Robert DeNiro, the Clintons, Obamas, Maxine Waters and CNN all received pipe bombs?
There is a time now to view coincidences as deliberate acts of violence that are aimed ONLY at those Trump hates most and has publicly stated as such.
People are trying to destroy the United States and President Trump. Every day, people make threats against President Trump. These are our true enemies and if a couple pipe bombs come their way, it's because they asked for it. You can't constantly call for the destruction of our President and our country (open borders anyone?) and not expect people to respond in kind.
There is absolutely no justification for sending a bomb to someone else. To suggest there is indicates either that you don't know what a bomb is, or you don't understand what a bomb does.
Really. so if you do not agree with somebody you start to shoot or bomb.
No matter if the target is on the left or on the right side of the political spectrum. Violence should be condemned.
These actions should be called terrorism.Remember the Anthrax letters. The word terrorism was all over the place. I've not seen this word in the media though. Let alone a tweet from Trump with this word.
When you have a political dispute, you talk it through.
But apparently violence is tolerated in American politics of today.
You must have just missed it peterstreep. I have heard multiple media outlets calling these pipe bombs terrorism.
Lock her up, lock her up, Lock her up!
Yes from the first day he encouraged violence.
This alone would be enough for me to vote against Trump even if I agree with all his "policy." This is not American..we don't lock up political opponents especially after cleared in an investigation. Autocracy 101
Is it Autocracy 101 or Dictatorship 101? I can't remember which course in college had it.
Ha ha...I think Autocracy includes Dictatorship, or something like that. I know Trump it's all bad and Trump is probably the last person that should be the big cheese in that type of set up.
When people are talking about undermining the United States, about removing our President from office, about opening our borders and allowing anybody to come into our country, then these are enemies of the people. What do we do to our enemies?
You kill them. That's more fun and easier to do than voting in a Congress which decides whether to impeach or not impeach a President.
We are in a war for the soul of our country.
They are a subset of the people. We talk. We listen. We find compromise. We don't fantasize about killing them. Your opinion is a subset of the people. I would hope no one is fantasizing about your death.
When you get a snippet of a speech where Clinton talks about open borders, referring to it in economic terms, not immigration terms, but you let your right-wing media sources frame it in a way it was not completely used during the speech, it shows your own lack of research into the topic. Then you take that snippet and apply it across the board to all people in the opposing political party, even though that political party reduced the net undocumented population by a million under their last president, including targeting criminals for deportation, that just makes you sound like a crazy person. Just saying.
That is nuts, WE will find out who is responsible and prosecute to the full extent of the law.
If it is who I suspect, the Rightwinger, there will remain no place he or she can hide.
This will have 0% impact on anyone who prioritizes voting on real issues, whether it be abortion, taxes, or border control, whatever their hot button issue is will still be the driving force in this election.
It is as good a time as ever to be participating in the electoral process, because never has there been as substantial a divide between the parties as there is today.
(D) More taxes (including having to pay a tax for NOT being able to afford health insurances) VS (R) less taxes.
(D) Open Border policy and abolishment of ICE VS (R) Strict Border policy and Police/ICE support.
(D) Caving in to Foreign trade demands (China, Mexico, etc.) VS (R) Tougher trade agreements more favorable to American workers, punishing corporations for taking their manufacturing outside the U.S.
The media is going to play this up to the hilt, but we knew that two days ago (and I said as much in another thread) anything to get people's minds off the Kavanaugh debacle or the thousands marching up to cross the border (and how many hundreds of thousands more will come if they are allowed to cross unopposed).
Unlikely, but It still starts at the top. Who hasn't seen this coming with the rhetoric from the White House?
Maggot Man is unable to control himself or his mouth. He believes he is so far above the law that even if he wants to incite riots and the White Nationalist Proud Boys to go around beating up on anyone they come within 100 yards of, he'll always get away with it all.
The gravity of what this savage episode proves is one thing: Everyone of those who received a bomb were on Maggot Man's favorite hit list.
Of course, we all denounce violence. The only ones who don't are the right wing fanatics who would jump at the chance to be one of Trump's Brown Shirts.
NY City had to arrest 3 of the White Nationalist Proud Boy nuts last week. But the more dangerous thing is if these Proud Boys dare to venture into NY City gang territory trying to prove how powerful they are.
It'll be a blood bath. And loathe though I am to say I told you so, I will say that loud and clear.
ADL Report: White Supremacist Murders More Than Doubled in 2017
https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases … ed-in-2017
There's bee A LOT of weapons stockpiling, good old boys at the shooting ranges around here since Obama took office. I said that if Obama couldn't bring the country together, there would eventually be no US left as we know it...I hope I was wrong.
And may I ask how in March 2009 when the KY Bourbon Boy McCONman told the WH press, "We will GET RID of Obama'" and then Republicans proceeded to do just that for 8 years, how Obama was supposed to bring idiot Republicans to the same table?
Who is more respected by our allies today? Obama or Trump? Who did more for 122 million Americans who had NO healthcare all while McCONman insisted the ACA was bad.
Who was it who worked with Iranians to get them to reduce their "stockpile" of nukes?
There are 325 million Americans. I do not empower the tiny percentage of obstructionist, narrow minded, Bible Beating, contrary, right who support what all of us here in NJ know about Trump: He is a thug.
We know what he did to over 4,000 employees when he got a money laundering fine at the Taj Mahal Casino in A/C after he was warned 3 times.
He refused to pay those mostly Hispanic immigrants their wages and used that money to pay a $25 million money laundering fine. He stiffed so many union contractors who built those hotels and casinos and his hotel and casino suppliers that he doesn't dare come into NJ anymore on the NJ Turnpike or Parkway if he wants to see his grandkids married.
The city of NY holds no love for Trump either for his numerous frauds and cheating the city out of the deals he signed with them.
Trump doesn't unite. The only crowds he EVER loves are the ones he considers his "audiences."
Do you consider any of the statements that Dems in Washington have expressed could have added to the increased tension? Does the statement "lock her up come close to comparing with "when they go low kick them"? "Get in their faces and let them know they are not welcome anywhere." I would like to take Trump behind a shed and beat him down..." The Dems win the war on violent rhetoric.
Trump is the President..he sets the tone and has a responsibility to act Presidential. Why do you think we have such comments "when they go low kick em" and "get in their faces" comments The same people that supported the hate speech against Obama are now supporting it against the media and whoever disagrees with Trump on anything It's not complicated for those that are paying attention and aren't drinking the orange kool-aid.
Have you witnessed any of the Republican in office calling for violence? Can you please give an example of something Trump has said that compares with my given examples. I do realize when Trump campaigned he did make comments that could certainly reach the definition of insight violence at rallies. I have not witnessed the same language since he took office. The left has not only insight violence they have committed violence. Not sure how you can look past this? And you are very wrong to say the Republicans ever provoked violence while Obama was in office. That is factually untrue. The Tea party at its worst never provoked violence.
Using the Stalin phrase "Enemy of the People" about the media and Democrats...laughing about body slamming reporters...this guy is dividing us on purpose...no, he deserves all the credit for this. It's clear he wants to scare us into voting red...not me.
None of what you have offered in any respect compares to what I gave as leftist government officials calling for true violence. The media has well overstepped their bounds in the language they use in regards to Trump.
When an Ideology owns the news media , Owns academia , owns then the collegiate channels of "Studies " done , they can assume ANY slant that they want on an alt-reality , AND THEY SURE HAVE .
" Of course it's all Trump's fault !"
No, Trump overstepped his bounds purposely and repeatedly...he is my President right? Yet he calls people who vote Democrat the enemy. I Voted for Obama so I'm the enemy? He is destroying our nation..it's clear as day.
He encourages those already emboldened by the dangerous rhetoric about Obama. I listened to right wingers repeatedly call for violence when Obama was president. I don't condone any of it by your president is getting exactly what he wants.
Yes. Donald Trump praising and applauding the Congressman to a cheering and applauding crowd for assaulting a reporter.
No. Presidential death threats skyrocketed when Obama came to office.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldn … rvice.html
Please read my comment. You have made a good attempt to deflect. It is very clear what my comment is referring to. Yes, every president receives death threats against their life. As a rule, the perpetrators are never caught. Trump has received his share right on network TV. Please address the context of my comment.
"Have you witnessed any of the Republican in office calling for violence? Can you please give an example of something Trump has said that compares with my given examples. I do realize when Trump campaigned he did make comments that could certainly reach the definition of insight violence at rallies. I have not witnessed the same language since he took office. The left has not only insight violence they have committed violence. Not sure how you can look past this? And you are very wrong to say the Republicans ever provoked violence while Obama was in office. That is factually untrue. The Tea party at its worst never provoked violence."
I did read your comment. You asked for an example of Trump encouraging violence and I gave one.
You denied bad behavior by the right while Obama was in office and I provided evidence.
Denying the facts of my reply won't make it go away. Insisting that one side is all good and the other is all bad is damaging our country.
No, that actually isn't "bad for the country " when democrats like yourself are in total denial that the majority of violent rhetoric AND active violence is owned by YOUR party in recent years , by a large majority .
"Yes. Donald Trump praising and applauding the Congressman to a cheering and applauding crowd for assaulting a reporter." This was no more than a statement said ingest, just as Biden's
I would take him behind the gym and beat him down"... Do you not realize you may be taking much of what you call t a veiled call for violence out of contexts? Do you find the comment if you see them at a gas station at a supermarket at a restaurant gather a crowd push back, let them know they are not welcome anywhere! I could take him out myself... When they go low kick them... The Dems do not bother with dog whistles they are blatant with their call for violence. And their statements are clearly not said in a jesting manner. I am certainly not denying facts. I see very clearly what is going on, and the president is working very hard to solve longtime problems, and doing a good job. It's you that are not seeing things clearly, you choose to hold on to anything you can to justify hating a man that is working for all of us. I see this as disgusting, sad, and scary...
One has to weep for the intellectual future of humanity when they see someone equating Eric Holder's "kick 'em" statement with other forms of violent rhetoric.
Do you even understand the context of that statement? I'll give you a chance to respond in a way that demonstrates some inkling of intellectual capacity. Meanwhile...
Oh sure, no violent rhetoric from the right. We had eight full years of stuff like this.
Credence, Promisem; et al - just want to point out that I've posted the Rope poster a few times. There are never any responses from the right. NEVER. They never denounce it either. We put up with this sort of thing for 8 years. It was constant too. We all know it.
And they want to complain about the "violent" left. Sure. Hypocrites and racists. They want white males running the country and that's it, generally speaking.
They won't denounce it because they think it would be a sign of weakness on their part. I can say the same thing about some people on the left.
We need more people on here who can admit that both sides have extremists who need to be stopped before the conflicts get out of hand.
The problem with the Right is their definition of extremist are those that protest or hold rallies. My definition involves bloodshed and killing. How many left oriented movement or entities have been involved in the sort of crimes we have been seeing lately? Don't leave out the racist murder article of two black men in Tenn. by a man initially seeking to use his semi-auto in a black church. You can find the details anywhere regarding the story.
I've stated over and over that I heard racist, violence statements toward the "lefties" type talk repeatedly while I worked for a lobbying firm during the Obama administration. Grandmas and Grandpas from Kansas to Florida were literally yelling over the phone about grabbing guns and revolution. There were at least one or two of these a day, sometimes more, depending on the subject.
They are now playing the passive aggressive game just like their leader. We must stop the madness at the voting booth and hop it's not rigged as Trump states it is.
Trump deserves to be hated and wants to be hated by those he doesn't like....he spews hate as though its oxygen that keeps him alive. Just look at his Twitter feed...even those on here that support him understand this, but they would never admit it.
Of course they are not going to respond. They are guilty of hypocrisy at the highest s levels. Who could abide a man as President who waged a racist attack on his predecessor?
Rightwingers, if nothing else are cowards to the core. The TRUTH is the last thing they are interested in.
Like I said, the philosophies generally associated with Left today do not come with the kind violence and body counts associated with those philosophies clearly identied as rightwing. Conservative spend so much time deliberately trying to blur the lines when all one has to do is look with your own two eyes to determine where the real violence begins.
White supremacy is the ultimate objective, but that is not politically palatable, but they working to make it easier for more people to digest the idea it and still feel good about themselves.
You are out there in the weeds, completely gone to any semblance of rationality.
The only thing more disturbing than a disconnected rant by some less than articulate poster are posts like this, from otherwise rational and well educated individuals that are completely unhinged.
Ken, didn't you believe in Pizzagate or that Sandy Hook was a hoax or something crazy like that? I'd be careful talking about "rationality" as a concept.
That said, I do value your opinion, Ken, despite Pizzagate. You're clearly smart, so I feel like your insights are valuable.
You can't seriously argue that Trump and white-wingers, sorry right-wingers, don't blow those white nationalist dog whistles all the time and desperately need the vote of those frustrated by the minority take-over of America.
Ken, never take it personally, but I am not here to tickle ears, but to express in candor about a world as I see it.
Oh puhlease. None of 44 other presidents EVER spoke or used the kind of mobster words you hear from Trump. I heard and saw him make a veiled threat that if Hillary repealed the 2nd Amendment his supporters would not be able to take her out.
Do you admit your right wingers are out of control and trying to stop voting by cheating and intimidation?
Do you admit that Trump told his supporters that the MT politician who body slammed a reporter, "Is my kind of man?"
That what you want in a president? A mobster mouth that encourages low class sleaze and violence?
Perhaps you should listen to all these statements in full content. Otherwise, I can see you are clearly picking up bits of statements our president has made at rallies and stretched badly out of context. Do you find the violent comments Maxine Waters, Booker, Biden, and Holder have recently made offensive? perhaps you should aim your outrage at them. They are straight up with their violent statements No dog whistles there... Perhaps you should look up the word hypocrite? So sick of dealing with the liberal mindset. Get some new material, and if you are going to compare apples to oranges get accustomed to being questioned on your logic.
Tell me who took down the World Trade Center - conservatives.
Who detonated the bomb in Oklahoma City - conservatives.
Get off this fantasy - Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter inspired crap that conservatives don't commit violence.
No party has committed more violence than liberals in America for five decades , Riots , Antifa , BLM , Black Panthers , Your party loves the romance so much of the sixties and the likes of the Weather Underground that you're trying to replicate the Vietnam era .
Yet you freak at the same rhetoric from our President ?
What a soft , weak party of blamers and finger pointers.
Ancient history, Ed? Are we going to discuss virtues of the Magna Carta next?
Earth to Ed, we are not talking about the 1960's, geez.....
I don't recall bomb threats from the Antifa or BLM, do you. The very fact these organizations exists is enough to disturb the Right.
Kind of seems to all come down to hating black people, doesn't it?
That thought has crossed my mind more than once.
I think that's pretty clear. Calling BLM a violent movement is a deflection from the real problem these people have with it, which is that black people are trying to express themselves over the fact that they're being shot dead by police at what seems like an alarming rate. Ultimately, what they're asking is to be treated like white people and given the benefit of the doubt.
I'm fairly certain that anyone who is offended by the name "Black Lives Matter" is a racist.
Crankalicious, the problem the Right has with it is the very fact that it exists. For them, Blacks questioning and challenging the Status-quo is anathema. The Right will ridicule the movement in an attempt to mitigate its meaning and influence. They are not interested in listening but rather dismisses the concerns of the group out of hand. It is a painful reminder that the color blind system that they harp about has nothing to do with the reality on the ground. Cowards that most of them are, they would rather shroud the issue with BS over taking any time to evaluate our justice system to see if the complaints are valid.
Well Credence , First , they are not bombs are they ? As not one of them was even able to be detonated so that makes your frantic reactions all a bit childish, no?
WE all realize that NYC has to bring out all the big trucks , dogs and detectives ,
This guy is a wack job and yet still able to turn liberals into no-kneed weaklings once again looking for Trump impeachment reason # 494 , for the record . But hey ,worry not it's all over now , you can all go back to your Russia probe .
FBI Director Christopher Wray said a fingerprint recovered from an envelope mailed to U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters matched Sayoc's fingerprint.
Wray said investigators tracked more than a dozen devices mailed to high-profile Democrats and their supporters that all were similar. Each mailed device included 6 inches of PVC pipe, a small clock, battery, wiring and potentially explosive material designed to give out heat and energy.
"These are not hoax devices," Wray said."
I don't know, but that is good enough to me.
If they are not bombs, what are they? Lollipops?
Promisem , Lollipops are more "dangerous " than this wacko's bombs .............................................any more questions ?
Were you born this ridiculous or do you work at it?
I'll tell you what I'll never do , React like a bunch of weak political reactionaries with no existence in modern day reality .
And no , THIS is easy .
Lol, you're extra worked up today. It's hard being a Trump defender. Relax.
Think about all of the DETAILS PrettyPanther , Not a "Bomb " went off , The FBI had a fingerprint on one of the first ones , this guy has an extensive record, .........Every single detail of all of this is so political . The timing , the details , the conclusion ...........
Why are you casting this shroud of mystery on this worthy of the Kennedy assassination?
Simple, A half wit right wing type putting together crude pipe bombs, the intent, unauthorized use of the mail and the unlawful threat posed by these packages are enough to constitute a crime, even if they were inert, which they were not.
I know someone else who promoted conspiracy theories:
Just goes to show these types of conspiracy theories are toxic and potentially dangerous. For people with certain issues, it just feeds into those issues. Posting more of it is like throwing fuel onto a fire.
The person arrested for sending these IEDs evidently bought-into and promoted the same types of conspiracy theory you are now promoting! It's a vicious circle. And while it would be easy to just point the finger at Trump, the fact is, he's not on this forum posting conspiracy theories about this right now. You are.
So would you like to start promoting civility with me by generally bringing the rhetoric down a few notches, and would you like to promote unity with me by not fanning the flames of political discord with conspiracy theories like the one you are promoting here?
This is an open invitation.
You really believe conservatives "took down the World Trade Center and were responsible for h Oklahoma city bombing"? I must say you take the prize... LOL
Wonder if you could possibly stay on topic? I asked a question, it was stated very clearly. Not sure why you jumped in to deflect mode?
My question - " Do you find the violent comments Maxine Waters, Booker, Biden, and Holder have recently made offensive? Perhaps you should aim your outrage at them. They are straight up with their violent statements No dog whistles there... Perhaps you should look up the word hypocrite? So sick of dealing with the liberal mindset. Get some new material, and if you are going to compare apples to oranges get accustomed to being questioned on your logic."
The fact that you took Maxine Waters' statement to confront politicians in public to mean something violent says more about your thinking. It can mean with hostile intent or with argumentative intent. Crazy Trump cult conspiracy theorists will of course see that as the hostile meaning to drum up more fear that a black person causes them harm. It's part of the racist underpinnings of your collective ideologies now. Now when someone says punch them in the face, that's a pretty clear case of a violent comment. Calling Americans (our media) the enemy of the people is an extremely obvious one, because not sure any enemy is supposed to be treated kindly. So, when you get done with your hypocrisy, try holding Trump to any semblance of civility and we'll take you a little bit serious when you accuse our side of being the one promoting violence.
Have you anything in the way of Republican representatives making any form of statements that promote violence? Such as I provided as examples of Dem that represent us in Washington. Your being brainwashed with ridiculous media rhetoric. "we'll take you a little bit serious " ... So I see you still feel you speak for all that post here? Check yourself you sound foolish. The fact is you can't defend the remarks that I provided, so you try to defect and insult me. "Now when someone says punch them in the face, that's a pretty clear case of a violent comment. " This statement was made during a campaign rally. The president in no respect has made any statements that could be construed as being violent in his presidency. You need fresher material I would say.
First off, calling Americans the enemy is a call to violence. You don't treat enemies with kindness. I'm pretty sure he's done that during his presidency once or twice (or hundreds of times, actually). So your point that he's only done that during the campaign is completely false. And some of his crazy followers are taking his words to heart and acting on them. What's his response, to continue with the rhetoric. At this point, Trump IS putting American lives at risk. Just not the ones in his cult. So if you take my comments as an insult, I'm just fine with that because you support a president putting Americans at risk and when the opposition fights back using similar tactics, you find it unfair. Hypocrisy may be considered an insult, but in this case, it's truly warranted.
Well said. Praising and applauding Congressmen who assault people also is a call to violence.
I agree. And Trump actually said that the pipe bombs and murders of Jewish people at worship interrupted his campaign momentum. Every time he says something so awful you can't believe it, he tops it. If that's not hateful, what is? The people in Pittsburgh asked him to stay away, and he doesn't have empathy in him to say anything comforting. Javanka just seemed foolish and should go back to New York.
I think of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama at sad times where they had to step up, act like Presidents, and say something uplifting. They did it every time. This awful man cares only about himself and what he perceives as a win.
As far as sending immigrants back, I have no issue with it if they don't work or are criminals. I spoke of those who actually are working and trying to follow the rules. We have lots of them where I live.
The press could tone it down a little, but that goes for both sides then. Fox has to knock off the fear mongering and lies. Remember, most of the Fox evening lineup are not journalists, they are opinion shows. But surely, everyone could watch their words more.
"Tone it down a little "....... Including the majority leftist news media and the democratic party , liberal celebrities and sports heros WHERE most of today's ideological hatred originates?
I think everyone should watch their words more carefully. Journalists from left leaning places do insult the President, and they shouldn't. But then opinion based Fox just makes up lies, much like this President, and are spreading politics of fear. Two wrongs don't make a right. I thought this forum was actually leaning towards a spirit of better cooperation and less mean spiritedness. And it is, with some.
Liberal celebrities and sports heroes are entitled to their opinions. I don't think intelligent people will change their views based on what a celebrity says. Oprah overcame a life of hell in MS to get where she is today. She never got into politics until Obama ran, but sees a big disrespect for women and rejects Trump's politics of fear and hate.
Colin Kaepernick did not take the knee to disrespect the American flag. He did it to protest white police shooting to kill black young people when they didn't commit serious crimes, or more cowardly, shot them in the back while they ran away, in some cases children.
Right wing people call people who are peacefully protesting "mobs", but we are allowed this privilege in our Constitution. People on this forum are asking for examples of Trump's hate, it's in every single rally. He mocks everyone. He demonizes this caravan. I don't think they should be allowed to come into the country either, but we have asylum laws, and Jeff Sessions and Trump interpreted them for their own means when they separated the children from their parents. You know that. He doesn't have to pretend these are people from MS 13, or that they will spread diseases that were long eradicated. From what I see, it's a majority of women pushing baby strollers. And there is no need to demonize these people, just because our politicians have failed to make good immigration laws.
Democrats do care more about marginalized people. And this seems to cause a big divide, especially in Evangelicals. This is a secular country, and I'm sick of being preached to by people with Old Testament ideas, especially ones who want to take our country back 100 years or more. This country will not be predominantly white after 2050, and some are uncomfortable about that. Also, science has proven that climate change is man made, I see it in my own neighborhood. Evangelicals insist on the Biblical fables to deny what is fact.
The country is changing, whether you like it or not. We are a lot more diversified and our young people are used to being immersed in a culture with people of all colors and sexual orientations. They grew up with Obama, not in this Trumpian culture of hate and division. So they are confused and turned off by the whole political process.
I still don't see how you support saying liberal celebrities and sports heroes are the originators of ideological hatred. It's the "old boys club" who runs this country. Maybe not after this election. Is that what all the fuss is about? Yes, women, people of color, and those from the LGBTQ community are intelligent and deserve a place at the table to speak about how this country should be run.
These are only my opinions, but I know many who share them. And I am trying hard to express this in a kind way. It's harder to find people who live in rural communities who never have influxes of all different people than who they are used to. I grew up in an all white city, but that began changing in the 1970s. So all this anger is about changes that have been around for over 40 years, unless you live somewhere far from big cities or the coast. This is what the future will look like, people who have progressive social attitudes not silenced by Churches who constitutionally should have no say in politics. Everyone can worship as they want, but they can't tell me to reject anyone different. Oh, and if so, they should lose their tax free status. Everyone who hears the word "Nationalist" thinks of "White Nationalist." And in the East we have all seen examples that Trump has been a racist and used racist practices for years. Most of the attendees of his rallies are white, don't you see a correlation here?
Sorry for the length of this, but I don't intend to post anymore about politics for now. I hope for a Blue wave, because this President needs checks and balances more than anyone ever has. And he hasn't learned a thing since coming into office, just keeps on with his "Greatest Hits."
That is highly improbable, you just as well say the Moon is made of green cheese. As pissed as we all are with Trump, civil progressives never threatened him or his henchmen with bombs.
Just the sort of headlines Conservatives need so near the midterms?
Sure. Someone on the left is as violent as your White Nationalists (Was that Trump's code word to them 2 days before these bombing when he told the press he was a :"Nationalist?"
Someone on the left is as violent as those White Nationalist Proud Boys 3 of whom got arrested in NY for attacking people on the streets?
Who was it who called Dem's "terrorists?" Who was it who said Maxine Waters has a "low IQ?" Who was it who over and over and over tried to gut CNN because the Maggot Man doesn't like anyone to DARE criticize him?
Frankly, anyone in NJ or NY City sees the Maggot Man's handiwork ALL over this.
Did he even bother to concern himself that the Clintons, Obamas, Mr. Brenna or Rep. Waters might have been killed? No. All that piece of dirt said was that the media has to tone it down and that his veiled reference to politicians, always aimed at Dems, must be less in opposition.
And before you go there, George Soros did donate $500 million to the Dems running for election. That's HIS right. Just as it was the KOCK boys in 2016 when they handed the RNC $800 million to put a piece of trash in the WH.
Soros sees what you and your hardliners are doing and it scares him because he left Hungary for the very same reason: Your FASCISM. First from the Nazi regime and after WWII the Russians.
You won't get that chance.
Don't you dare call yourself an American if all you can do is side with the right. They are going down just like the Maggot Man. We who care less about ideology are not going to allow ourselves to be taxed for sleazebags like Trump. Clawback is coming to Republican states.
Better make sure you have plenty of money to hand to your state. Dem states are fed up supporting moochers.
Just like Sandy Hook and Pizzagate right? Leftist conspiracies.
No such thing as a violent right-winger! 10000% of violence is perpetrated by the left! Have you learned nothing by reading these forums?
That's a rather conservative estimate I presume...
Get off the drugs honey. And stop relying on a man to do for you what you can do for yourself.
When did the left go marching in the streets with a Confederate flag? When did they go marching in the streets with flaming Tiki torches?
When did 3 of the White Nationalist Proud Boys get arrested in NY city not 2 weeks ago for beating up people on the streets? For beating up on people in Oregon, CA and several other states?
WE learned that your right wingers are men who are lazy bums with NO high school diplomas, boozed up on cheap beer and not remotely qualified for any job.
You need to get off the drugs honey if you think we will EVER allow you and your silly grossly insecure needy right wing women to infect our kids.
Sorry, unlike the narrow minded beak brains of the right, I don't need drugs to know what sarcasm is and is not.
I guess we'll have to disagree on who is beak brained.
She's from NJ. I don't think relaxing is possible in that state.
I'm from NJ and I am proud of it. Let me know when you live 45 minutes from the worst terrorist attack as we did on 9/11. You bet we don't relax. When we see something now, we say something.
How do you know your states won't be next on the ISIS hit list?
Who's got drugs over here? Just poured myself a cup of herbal tea. (Home grown lemon verbena, but don't tell anybody as it's organic...)
It really is a small world peterstreep. I also enjoy relaxing with a steamy mug of lemon verbenna. My recipe is double the tea, double the lemon, a bit of the zest, half the water, and six ounces of Stolis. Fills my mug to the brim.
As always I'll wait for more information before laying accusations. All people of good will should stand against violence and denounce it, unequivocally.
All this leftist action IS the serpent itself , headless as it may be . WE have to await the investigations . No one alive today would put the blame of an actual violent attack like this at the hands of those who've done little violence BUT likely at the hands of the Alinskyites themselves . WE know there is a leftist deep state wanting to affect elections , it's as likely them as anyone.
Here is a cold hard fact. It is something that will baffle those on the left.
NOBODY knows who is responsible for sending those bombs.
That is a fact
Here something you need to learn.
Assumptions and speculation are not facts OR truth. It is only evidence of your imagination.
No problem with that..I know what I think is likely, but no, we don't know at this point. Why do you have to come on here and tell people what they need to learn? That's not a respectful tone in such a situation.
Will Trump's people accept the conclusions if it's found to be a Trump supporter behind this?
"Why do you have to come on here and tell people what they need to learn?"
Re-read the OP and the title. It explains it pretty well.
OK. But, then why wouldn't the comment be directed just at the thread starter?
As opposed to, "Here is a cold hard fact. It is something that will baffle those on the left."
Good point. Seems the same assumption was made by both - that everybody on either the right or left is guilty.
Agreed. I think we also have to understand that not all Americans fit with the "right" or "left." Not that you particularly don't understand this, but I think our collective language in these terms unnecessarily divides us. I use "Trumpians" a lot to at least be a bit more specific as to whom I'm referring to.
Not all "conservatives" or "right wingers" support Trump who is telling people that "Democrats" support MS13, they are the enemy, the media is the enemy, etc. That's not conservative talk.
I have a better question. Will the liberal establishment accept responsibility for these bombs if it proven to be one of their own? There is NO blue wave, Trump's approval rating is rising, liberals lost the Kavanaugh nomination they tried to block. These are desperate people. So close to an election. So many races that are so close. Could this be an act of desperation on the left? It's possible.
If it turn out to be some plot from amongst our own, I will "eat crow" and take total responsibility for my error, if you promise not to inundate me with excuses if a right wing apparatchik is found to blame.
I sure will as well. As I said, I think it unlikely this comes from the left, but it could. And, if law enforcement says so, then I take them at their word. That doesn't mean I accept any type of responsibility for some left-wing nut job. As Credence, I expect the same acceptance if it turns out the other way.
Readmikenow has yet to offer such acceptance.
I've never suggested who is responsible. I just stated we don't know who is responsible. That was my point. I'll wait for the fact to come in.
I didn't assign blame either..only said what I thought likely.
But, that's not event the point. The point is whether you will accept the findings of law enforcement agencies if it turns out to be a Trump supporter or right winger behind the attempts. You still haven't directly accepted that.
Too often, people who value truth are in a heads I win tales you lose situation as Trump can just simply state the sky is green and so it is.
If the facts prove it, I would have no choice but to accept it. Here is a fact that is not being reported accurately by the mainstream media.
According to the FBI, the pipe bombs had all the elements of an explosive device, but no detonator. Think about that for a minute. This fact is worded one way on CNN and another on Fox News. So, what would be the motivation of sending a deadly bomb without a functioning detonator?
"The package addressed to Waters had similarities to the other suspicious packages, according to two law enforcement sources. One source said that belief was based on the timing, packaging and devices inside the packages, though it was not clear if it was capable of exploding."
Here it is on Fox News
"A second official who is also involved in the investigation told Fox News that the choice of a pipe bomb is unusual because there is no obvious way to detonate it."
There is much to this story we do not know.
The fundamental premise of right wing ideology is to try and make others believe they know it ALL. Who else pulls that if not their cowardly leader Maggot in Chief?
What the right wants is to OWN the government. They just do not want to pay for it. They come from the 37 Moocher states that get back more than that $1 they pay in federal taxes, collect the most welfare and SSDI and avoid filing for unemployment so their state taxes are not depleted.
The right also HATES having to pay for their own healthcare. They'll deny to the four winds that when they don't pay for these, we do with higher premiums. But you see? That's fine with these moochers.
What they also want is for all of us to condone violations to our First Amendment rights to free press uninfluenced by their bias, the right to protest and "to petition the government for redress of grievances."
They are about to see backlash from these attempts on the lives of the Obamas, Clintons, John Brennan and Maxine Waters in the November election.
What will they do then? Roll their eyes in the backs of their brainless heads and grab their guns because they lost?
They will never admit what they hate most about the country these freeloaders live in is our democracy that is predicated upon the right of the people to choose the representatives, WE, not THEY, want.
Sorry rightie but what we do know is that they were mailed to FL, DC and NY. Now are you going to try and tell us that the DC post office from which they were mailed doesn't know who mailed them by now?
You better hope it wasn't a rightie. You righties are already in the soup for all that voter suppression and White Nationalist Proud Boys violence.
Most of us will be thrilled if you right wing fanatics and radical extremists end up with your lover Putin in Siberia.
As I have stated many times here and in other forums , It is an imbalance to blame the right for anywhere near the level of rhetoric called for , manifested and perpetrated than by leftists , Not only here in America but look at world history .
Perhaps the ideological rightist acts out in more politically or worldly manifested ways but locally , in America , it is the Antifa , the original black panthers , the BLM er's , the Weather Underground ,etc.........
Gee that's funny, but Germany refuses to allow their right wing Nazis any substantial power. Maybe you'd prefer Russia?
As I have posted many times, I am not going to succumb to a bunch of under educated right wing fanatics who try to use religion to make their points and then act in ways NO religion on earth would ever condone.
Time for you to get over it
Oh and by the way, AntiFA stands for Anti fascism does it not? so that must mean YOU are PRO fascism since you are bashing it.
My Dad left Italy because of Fascism and he hated Mussolini and Hitler. So don't you ProFAs dare think for one minute the likes of little me will ever allow you P:roFAs a toe hold in our democracy.
If you hate democracy so much, there's always an Aeroflot or Globus airline to take you to Moscow.
Antifa, with their fascist tactics and their mostly white people bashing anyone (minorities included) who don't agree with their agenda look pretty racist and fascist. I can call myself anything. My actions will determine what others perceive me to be.
The white nationalists they are "protesting:" and you call "bashing" are FASCISTS. They are the most under educated high school drop outs, lazy and booze swilling middle aged low lifes.
My father lived through a time when Italy was governed by Fascists. Don't try to educate me when I had a relative that would be the first to bash your PRO Fascists.
You don't know me, or my politics. Your hate filled rants are indicative of what is wrong in our physical climate.
People spewing hatred with no clue about what they are talking about, or an educated understanding of the issues. Not very helpful. But, hey. You're from Jersey. Pretty typical of what I've seen in that state.
If you're silent about Bozo Trump's angry, hate filled venomous words and mad actions, then you are complicit with this evil doer by default: Just remember, he still employs white nationalist nazis in our white house and that's unacceptable
Hey--don't mess with Jersey!
I am from New Jersey too. It's a liberal and very diversified state, and we are proud of it. We have one of the biggest Muslim populations, people of all religions, sexual orientations, and ideologies. And we make it work, in a very small and congested state.
Nobody in Jersey City "stood there and cheered" on 9/11 as the Twin Towers fell, as our pathological liar of a President said. We all lost good friends and our Northern towns are littered with memorials.
Maybe you should get out of your sheltered little world in the middle of nowhere and get to know people who are different from you, so you could stop being afraid of everyone.
Ewent is not "spewing hatred." Donald Trump does it every time he has a rally. Just the fact that that the bomber was found to be a right wing white nationalist, and the President now describes himself as a nationalist, is chilling.
When questioned, all Trump did was express that this bombing might hurt the Rs in the midterms. He didn't even have the decency to call the two ex-presidents. Let's just stoke more terror about the caravan.
The "lock her up" chant is still happening at the rallies. Even though Trump discusses classified info on his i phone. He doesn't realize the bottom of each tweet says, "Sent from i phone." At least her server was from when her husband was POTUS, and likely more secure. He presides over these hate filled rallies, calls D's by mean spirited nicknames, and tells complete lies, whatever comes to his mind. He attacks the free press, the most important part of a democracy. Do you really want to live in the autocracy he is trying to create? He talks about "punching people in the face." He cozies up with dictators and alienates our allies. So who is dividing the country? Donald Trump.
Most Democrats don't believe in open borders. This was said by a few fringe nuts, like the R one who tried to kill prominent D leaders because at every hate filled rally, Donald Trump makes it clear this kind of behavior is acceptable. The division in this country has been made much worse by him.
Thankfully, the bomber was so inept nobody got hurt. He was aiming for more people. Trump could have acted like a President and made this a unifying moment. But he was too much of a narcissist to do it, considering only how it affected him.
White Nationalist - one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation .
Nationalist - an advocate of or believer in nationalism (a national independence or strong national government).
See the difference?
I do. Trump is a white nationalist. He truly is a racist. Living close to NY I know about his policies of not renting or selling to people of color. Apologies for mistake. You no doubt have noticed the plethora of people of color in his administration.
"Ewent is not "spewing hatred."
You obviously haven't read his rants.
"Even though Trump discusses classified info on his i phone. He doesn't realize the bottom of each tweet says, "Sent from i phone.""
LOL If it was classified information being put on Twitter, I rather think someone would have said something by now - don't you? Trump is more that welcome to make his tweets from his unsecured i-phone.
"Most Democrats don't believe in open borders."
Sounds that way, doesn't it? Until they begin crying about people "just looking for a better life" or "But they're just kids". Most Democrats say they want a closed border...right up until they see the illegals coming in and then it somehow changes.
"Trump could have acted like a President and made this a unifying moment."
He condemned it in the strongest terms and asked that all people do so. And the statement was rejected by the left. Who didn't want a "unifying moment"?
I watched this thread as the week went on, and everyone was behaving well and taking a "wait and see" attitude. I was ill today and just went online, so was surprised how fast it got to be the usual.
If the Chinese and Russians were easily reading classified info, why would they tell us? And Trump's staff has been trying to get him to stop the tweets from this i phone for most of his Presidency. This has been on the news all week, and I watch all networks to see their views. But Hillary did the same. Why shouldn't he be locked up?
I stand by my state. NJ is a great state. I didn't read all of Ewen't's posts, my bad.
No, average D's don't believe in open borders. A few on the fringes do. Why doesn't the POTUS actually call the President of Mexico or do something NOW to inform this caravan not to come to the border, that we won't let them in? I think NOBODY new should be let in the U.S. until we get it together. Why spend money on illegals when we can be helping our own people in Appalachia, or our homeless population? It's still one of the most evil things I can think of to separate parents from children. There are still over 1,000 that haven't been reunited. This caravan has to be stopped. But in the meantime, they won't get here by the midterms, so Fox should knock off the scare tactics with the timer on the lower right hand corner of the screen.
He certainly did not condemn this in the strongest terms. If he did, I didn't hear it. I did hear him say something like it was bad, but then he blamed it on D's in the same sentence, so that's hardly a decent strongly worded statement of unity.
Of course we all would like a unifying moment. We aren't ever going to get one from him. He is too much of a narcissist and only cares about how events affect him.
"And Trump's staff has been trying to get him to stop the tweets from this i phone for most of his Presidency."
Again, if Trump is tweeting from his Iphone, who cares? It's public knowledge as soon as he hits the "enter" key anyway.
"Why doesn't the POTUS actually call the President of Mexico or do something NOW to inform this caravan not to come to the border, that we won't let them in?"
Perhaps he has. But it won't do any good - Mexico doesn't want them, and they don't want Mexico. Trump could make demands until he is blue in the face but the caravan isn't going to stop because he says to and Mexico isn't going to stop them because Trump says to. Both had that chance at the southern Mexican border and neither took it even though both Mexico and the caravan already knew what they were planning was illegal.
"We aren't ever going to get one <unifying moment> from him."
We aren't going to get one from the millions that hate him and spew that hatred daily on the net, either. Or from any of the Democrats in congress, or many of the Republicans. Personally, I put the onus for the division we're seeing on the haters - I've never seen anything like it in all my life. Incessant name calling, telling people to follow into restaurants and create a scene, etc. It has been flatly unbelievable to think people would actually behave that way. I suppose the anonymity granted by the web has increased the willingness to behave so poorly (it has everywhere else), but that is no excuse for the language being used by ordinary people in expressing their displeasure. Some of it makes Trump look like an angel, as you found out by reading more posts. Ewent and Jake are good examples of what can be found anywhere we look, and are far worse than anything Trump has said - as a divisive force it is far greater than any one man could do, even the President. IMO
But don't you think those you call "the haters" got that way after listening to all the hate filled rhetoric of his rallies? All he does is spew mean words, lie about accomplishments, and make empty promises.The wall has not been started, a few fences have been patched. Citizens on the TX border don't want it, they do business everyday with Mexico. Less people came through in the last year than in many years. I don't hate him, I think he's a poor President, and also a person with personality disorders, so a poor choice. But I knew a lot about him for many years and his reputation in the NE is not good, he is very disliked for his business practices and moral behavior, although that's not for us to judge.
IMO, People care because Hillary Clinton still has to hear "lock her up" at every hate filled rally for doing the same thing. Why isn't Trump held to the same standard? That's just wrong, and he should tell his followers to stop. How hard is that? The buck starts and stops with him, and he won't take responsibility. Why doesn't he do more to serve the country instead of holding these self serving rallies every night? Even at the inauguration, George W. Bush invited Hillary and Bill to stay in Crawford at his ranch to get away from all she went through. She didn't want to go because she was so traumatized (her words) that she believed if she went everyone would yell "lock her up."I never thought I would say W was a class act, but he is.
As far as the caravan, what can be done? They need to know they can't keep coming, we can't accommodate them. Our country has enough people and problems, and IMHO we need to stop all immigration for a period of time. I think we agree here. Charity begins at home, right?
I truly did not read the whole thread and was unfamiliar with certain people, I know the usual suspects. I jumped at seeing my state maligned. NJ always takes a bad rap, and it is a good state, not all highways. We have the Jersey Shore, and it's beautiful. I met a couple in Antiqua a few years back, who told me I didn't have an NJ accent. They were from England and watched those drunken, sex crazed teenagers on that show NJ Shore, where the whole cast was from Long Island, NY.. One girl was on the show who was from NJ, but only stayed for a few weeks. We have numerous farms, the Delaware Water Gap, and all kinds of Botanical Gardens. We also have a lot of conservatives, especially where I live. And we get along fine. I should have read all the posts before defending someone, it was NJ I was defending. That was my fault and I should have known better. As I said, I am up this late because I hurt my back and can't operate on the amount of sleep I've had, going on for a week now. Delirious.
I don't think people in my party helped by accosting people in restaurants, or calling for "when they go low, we kick them." But I know about bullies, from when my son was young and I had to enroll him in martial arts school, the one he runs now. He had long hair and got bullied. Sometimes when a bully attacks, you have to attack back, because it's the only thing they understand. I say that with reluctance Dan.
I still think Trump could set a better example. Would it have killed him to reach out to Obama and Clinton? Does he have to keep giving people mean nicknames? He's a bully who must win at all costs. He has to stop maligning CNN, just because he thought it was brilliant to call it the Clinton News Network. They didn't cover the Clintons anymore than anyone else, they are persona non grata after the Me Too movement now anyway. I don't think that's fair either, revisionist history. No President loves the media, but he doesn't have to take it this far. He takes almost everything too far, he doesn't think before he speaks at all, and doesn't have any knowledge how to run a gov't., and doesn't seem to be learning. All the staff leaks indicate his staff can't even stand him. It scares me as I see how his ideas influence others.
But unity has to start somewhere. I am trying to be more careful what I say. But I still see a President who acts like a petulant child. And many people who blindly defend him no matter how far he goes.The web does make it easier for the worst to come out in people, and that's unfortunate.
I read a great book about a year ago, Hillbilly Ellegy by J.D. Vance. It's the true story of a man from Southern Ohio, who had relatives who he describes as having "hillbilly" traits. His Mom was a drug addict, but he had loving grandparents who managed to support his dream of going to law school. He explains how the people from the Bible Belt don't get exposed to new people or ideas, and are afraid of anything different than what they know. They don't even go to church like we all think. They all know a few Bible verses or two. But it's a great read because it helps to understand the Trump supporters. They are different and think differently than people used to a busier and more diverse population, who are more educated. They don't like educated people. I learned a lot from the book.
Although we will never agree too much on politics, I appreciate the wording of your post. I will try to be respectful and not add more animosity to an already toxic atmosphere. Deal?
"But don't you think those you call "the haters" got that way after listening to all the hate filled rhetoric of his rallies?"
Yes and no. They heard distasteful things from Trump. Whereupon they upped the ante, returning the same thing they complain about ten fold. Unlike the mentally ill pipe bomber, we are all responsible for our actions - poor behavior is not excused because "Well, he did it first!".
Jean, I don't like Trump. He is a boor, he has no control over his mouth and I don't agree with his business practices. He has the personality of a snake and I wouldn't want him in my house. He also has, IMO, a far better grasp of what our nation needs and is far more willing to do what needs done than any president we've had in decades. In my opinion Obama spent 8 years waffling before the world, bending over backward to turn America into a rug to be walked on and cost us dearly in terms of world respect of what America is and can accomplish. Trump is reversing that; however much the world detests the man, the countries power is regaining the respect it lost under Obama. I like that. In my opinion Obama spent 8 years in trying to turn America into another Greece, another failed attempt at socialism. Trump recognizes the impossibility of a vibrant socialist country and I like that.
So while I don't agree with all his policies and concepts, the majority I DO like. Just as I disagreed with the majority (but not all) of Obama's policies and concepts.
New Jersy - I can't really comment on the state, The closest I came to really being there was driving I 95 between Baltimore and New York. I know that it is often used as a joke - the armpit of the nation kind of thing - but I'm sure the reality is far different. It always is.
Unity - as long as we remain a divided people, posting the crap that Ewent and Jake does, it isn't going to change. It began, I think, with growing animosity between D's and R's in congress that developed in a total unwillingness to work together or compromise with each other. It has become an enormous power play between the rich and powerful to control the nation and has spilled over into the people themselves. No one will accept hardly anything the "other side" wants, and even when forced to it by political realities small, chipping attacks never end. Again, no compromise is ever acceptable; everything has to be our way. Examples are abortion and gun control; neither side will ever stop their attacks until they get everything they want. There is no unity possible under those circumstances, because no one wants it. Only everything their way.
You're right, I think, in Trump supporters, although it may not be Trump so much as conservatism. If we look at a map of the last election, by county, nearly all the red counties are rural and all the blue counties are urban. Even that bastion of liberalism, California, is covered with mostly rural, red counties - it was the large metropolitan areas that carried the election there. And yes, they live very different lives and have very different cultures and values.
(It doesn't help unity to say things like "Trump supporters are uneducated and don't like educated people". It is one thing to note the statistical fact that Republicans do not have as much formal education as Democrats, although far more knowledgeable about day to day life, but it is another to say they don't like educated people. That would be a strong indication that they don't believe in schools, wishing to remain ignorant and even stupid. Not nice and not true)
Deal. I have a (sometimes nasty) habit of replying in the tone of a speaker, and sometimes it gets away from me. I do enjoy a discussion between rational, polite people, though. I'm finding myself more and more backing away from these forums; they have become so virulent and vitriolic that I often don't care to participate. There are more than a few that I will seldom if ever reply to.
When I said Trump supporters were uneducated and didn't like educated people, that was very poorly worded. The NE also takes a lot of heat because all the big name colleges are here, not that I went to them. But I was also discussing Vance's book, and didn't mean to suggest anyone wished to remain ignorant. He stated lack of education as an issue in his book, as a reason why some of the people in rural areas are so wary of others.
I think Obama had to apologize after a war we shouldn't have had, and now the situation we still haven't extracted ourselves from. Some programs like healthcare are socialist leaning, but can actually help us as a society. That doesn't mean we have to be Socialists. But why not "borrow" ideas that work in other countries and try to make them fit for our ways?
I do watch Tucker Carlson and Fox (as much as I can stand before I have to leave the room) and he is really down on college education, believing it's indoctrination. I think many colleges are getting out of control with all the PC nonsense and micro aggression stuff. I know you probably can't stand Bill Maher, but he's spent a very funny career fighting political correctness. He was talking about Halloween and how three girls dressed as a Mariachi Band and got suspended for "cultural appropriation." So it does seem that some kind of backlash against colleges is happening. Maher calls these young people "special snowflakes." They get so wrapped up in all this petty stuff, they aren't maturing and are living like 18 yr. olds at 30.
I didn't mean to insult anyone. The reason Trump won is because he took the time to visit these states that D's call "flyover states". Maybe they will learn from it.
I see as you do that most blue states have huge swaths of red in them. I guess it's normal to see more liberal people near the coasts. But just because one person has different beliefs than another, doesn't mean everyone has to adopt those beliefs. I live next door to a married gay couple. I don't care, I like them, and it doesn't make me any less straight. It does limit my meeting anyone with dating potential there.
We have really strong gun laws in NJ, and so far have been safe from school shootings, and I pray it stays that way. I was watching Anthony Bourdain last week, a show in West Texas. He shot one more season before he died. I can see how guns are a rite of passage for young people there and in Appalachia. I saw a woman raising three daughters alone, who shot their own squirrels for dinner. They were so self sufficient. So this is an issue which really has to be looked at. I'd hate to see State's Rights come back, but am afraid that's where it's headed. Everyone is too angry to come together right now. Also, rational D's I know really don't want to go into anyone's homes and take their guns away. The atmosphere is always too heated and never gets a chance to calm down.
OK, deal on.
Socialism: I don't think anyone at all wants zero government, and with government comes some socialism. But compare what the original framers included down that road (basically nothing) to what we have today: the US has had a long, slow march to where we are, but shows no signs of slowing that march. Instead, ever more of the entitlement philosophy is built into our government every year. It's pretty bothersome to the average conservative to see that continue to happen, with no end in sight.
Trump's win - I disagree that that is the primary reason he won. I think he won because more and more people are absolutely sick and tired of Washington, and they way they continue to fail at actually running the country. We're tired of politicians that never say what they mean and will say anything at all to get elected. We're tired of the constant bickering and fighting in those hallowed halls with no one willing to compromise on anything. We're tired of the constant, increasing pressure to be PC and conform to the wishes of everyone else while our own desires are relegated to the back seat. Trump was elected, pure and simple, because he didn't fit the model of a politician and was a chance for the people to express that.
You may be right on states rights coming back; look at the sanctuary states and those allowing marijuana (saw a special where several people were nailed bringing weed into states that don't allow it). Again, that goes back to no one willing to compromise - everyone demands that the whole country be just like them. Doesn't work, not with the vast differences between urban and rural culture and philosophy.
I've never understood exactly what Conservatives consider entitlements. I know people resent welfare, and benefits to people illegally here. But do you consider Medicare to be an entitlement? You worked all your life, don't you deserve a cushion, as it sure is hard to save as wages haven't really gone up much in decades. I am on SS disability now, but worked since I was 17 (graduated early). I had very few breaks in between, so don't feel guilty. My husband worked every day of his life until the day he died (thankfully not at work) and our son has two careers now. He's still teaching elementary school but hates it, and wants to make running the martial arts school his primary goal in a few more years (he's been groomed for it, the owner is semi retired). So we all worked hard.
I have scoliosis from birth. It is hereditary, 90% in girls. I had a son and was afraid to have more children. But we really had to think about bringing a child with a disability into the world, when so many people just have babies while on welfare. So I understand resentment about people having babies we have to support.
I agree everyone is sick of politics and that had a lot to do with Trump's win too.
State's rights can solve some of the cultural differences we have in such a large country. Everyone can't demand everyone be like them, but shouldn't we be able to tolerate others whose views are different from our own? Just because people are one way or have a different lifestyle, that doesn't really threaten our lifestyle.
NJ has sanctuary cities too. It began happening in the 1970s, when the first Muslim populations started coming here. Paterson is one of the largest Muslim communities (and not a pretty city, not their fault). My husband worked with a lot of them and helped guide them through the channels and many became citizens. Now people don't seem to even try to go through the legal channels. People coming into the country the wrong way sneaked up on us very slowly, and got us to where we are today. But at the outset, all these people had relatives already here, and got jobs right away. I recall grandparent's telling me that to come into the U.S. back then, a person needed to be sponsored by a person or family already established here. That family would have found a job for the person they sponsored, and eventually the new person would become a citizen. Somewhere along the line, this went horribly wrong.
I think we need to determine exactly who is here, and begin by throwing out criminals. That's the easy part. After that, it gets harder. If people are working hard and trying to be citizens, how many years is it fair to keep them waiting to let them apply for citizenship? And if they already work two or three minimum wage jobs, how can we give them big fines? Should the minimum wage be raised? I can't figure it all out, but still think decency should prevail for the ones who really do work and are trying.
That is not easy at all, there is resistance to doing even this.
In states like CA and NY they are restricted from doing a lot of things to illegal immigrants, such as reporting them to ICE, documenting their crimes for record, etc.
In fact, you could say that one of the staples of the Democratic Party platform going forward is 'open borders' and terminating ICE.
Another problem that they will have, is many countries do not want to accept their criminal citizens back.
When the Cuban Migrant crisis happened back in the mid-90s the majority of those 'migrants' were prisoners released from the Cuban prisons, and Cuba wasn't taking them back, under any circumstances.
There is no simple solution, and for a country that already has 7 million people locked up in prisons, and over 4 million more roaming around on probation, locking them up is not a solution either.
The best place to deal with the problem is at the border, and the only way you can do that is by securing the border, enforcing the border, and limiting who enters the country.
A very good point; if no country will allow them entry as we did, where will we deport them to? Bikini Atoll?
The South Pole?
Couldn't Trump talk diplomacy to the President of Mexico and try to work something out? Mexico has to be responsible for it's own people.
I still don't support sending the Dreamers back, a promise was made to them. And we can't send people back who have been here for years and years, or make them pay outrageous fines we know they can't afford, when they work two or three minimum wage jobs.
Jean , "The Dreamers " are never going to be sent back , Even the hardest right winger knows that that will never happen. Reagan even granted amnesty . It's one thing to build a wall , close the illegal off from freely crossing , control the illegality but Dreamers are here forever ............Legally.
This caravan and it's people aren't from Mexico. They are Hondurans and no, I rather doubt Mexico wants to provide for the care of 7,000 illegal aliens in their country either.
But why can't we send people back who have flouted our laws for years and years? We gave near blanket amnesty once...and the result was a another 20 million sneaking in to get theirs, too. Will we repeat the mistake (we seem good at refusing to learn from our mistakes)? Stay tuned...
I really think something similar to the Gang of 8 bill needs to passed. It was well-rounded, addressed Dreamers, border patrol, and had a pathway to citizenship for those who had stayed out of trouble, been here X number of years etc. I had to know that bill inside and out.
The problem is nowadays it would likely be even harder to get such a bipartisan bill enacted.
The biggest problem with that bill, I think, was that it once more granted amnesty to those that entered illegally. We've done that before, with the single biggest result to encourage more to do the same thing. A failed policy, in other words, that was once more being proposed.
I guess you could call it amnesty if you wanted but the pathway--Registered Provisional Immigrant status-- only applied to those who paid fines, arrived before 2012, passed background checks, etc. It was not just simply, OK you're legal now. The idea was also to increase border security with more guards, drones and such to keep more from coming in thus reduce the need for amnesty in the future. No one with RPI would ever be a citizen before Border Patrol determined 90% of illegal crossings were being stopped. There's been nothing better ever proposed. "Amnesty" was one of the right wing buz words used to scare Republicans away from the bill.
The only alternative is door-to-door round ups which would violate constitutional rights of citizens and likely human rights of illegals. It would also have detrimental affects throughout our economy, from tech to agriculture.
One of the staples of the Democratic Party is not that we are for open borders or terminating ICE. There are fringe lunatics on the left, just like on the right. Democrats would like to see ICE behave as a more humane body, not separating children from parents. There are well over 1,000 kids who were spirited away to NY and rural Western states so reporters were unable to actually determine how many kids are being held in awful conditions and being traumatized for life. This is how you get zealots and people with ideologies so against the U.S., when you ruin their lives. These kids will be put in foster homes where they will be abused in some cases, and many will just be sold in to sexual slavery.
I agree it's best to deal with the problem at the border. But it's overkill to try to bring in 15,000 troops now, it's an Election Day stunt. I understand that people in the caravan have been told they won't be let in, but it won't stop them.
I wasn't considering that other countries were not interested in taking their criminals back, but it's a worthwhile point to bring to attention. We agree locking everyone up is not a solution, our prison system is a racket anyway. We have more people in prison due to simple pot charges, another story, but still too many people in total who haven't done wrongs serious enough to lose all they had on the outside.
We do need to secure the border, but I've been hearing a lot from people on documentaries shot in TX, who cross the border often, for work and play.They don't want a wall. Then there is the issue of the Rio Grande River. You can't put a wall there. I don't think a wall will work better than a fence, and technology, and Trump has already added a lot to our National Debt. So I don't know what the solution is. I still think we must find a way to list the criminals, and find somebody who will take them. And of course, keep any new people out until we get a handle on things.
We still have to find solutions rather than keep arguing about "facts" which aren't even true.
I'd like to apologize to you if my comments about your state caused you offense. To be honest, most women I've met from there I like. It's just the guys who I've found offensive. Until the person I responded to here. In fairness, that could be a picture of his wife who is likely a perfectly lovely women saddled to....i probably shouldn't say.
Live to Learn,
It's OK. I was sick and just got up and decided to read the forum to see how it progressed. Everyone says bad things about NJ. I live in a pretty, little town of 10,000 which looks like it's from the 1950s, like it used to look when I was a little girl. As a nature lover, I live on a one lane road in the woods, and it's beautiful. It was a bird sanctuary and lake community built in the 1940s, a series of similar roads and about 60 homes. I fought hard to keep it the way it is (with others) and now it's environmentally protected. It's close to highways, you can't get away from that here. But it's not an ugly state filled with roads and buildings. Sure, some parts are. But a lot aren't. I think too many people think it's like "The Sopranos." Not to worry.
Coincidentally Jean, yesterday when I was reading your comments, I was also watching a Smithsonian channel series called Aerial America. Their shows are by states, and the one I was watching was about New Jersey.
Outside of the congested metropolitan areas, it's a beautiful state. You should check out the series.
Ewent, as a Trump supporter all I can say is I hope you have a nice day. May all the good things you wish for in life come your way. I wish you peace.
At the risk of being labeled a conspiracy theorist, doesn't all this, from the caravan to the suspicious packages, seem just a little too convenient to both political parties?
Why wouldn't this be a logical response to the rhetoric? With all due respect, you do sound like a conspiracy theorist. We are all Americans...we need our leaders to lead and the people to chill.
A related thought: It's not a stretch to imagine that some of these events have help from a foreign government.
We do have plenty of enemies who would love nothing more than to disrupt our elections once again.
True. But I look closer to home, at the news media. How better to fire up the Republican base than the images we see of a throng of people storming our borders. How better to fire up the Democratic base than crazed right wingers.
All terribly convenient with the mid terms looming.
On a serious note, if this was done by a foreign country, could it be considered an act of war?
In the old days I would have thought so. Anymore, it's hard to tell what is considered an act of war.
We already have economic and technological warfare happening. Some countries are inteferring in the elections of other countries.
When Russian agents poison people in Britain, you would think that too is an act of war. But not much happens in response.
And if those bombs had detonated and killed ALL of those who were intended victims? Would you call that a political conspiracy too? I call it murder. You know? Like what that moron fuzzy face Saudi Prince thought he could force the world to accept.
The truth will come out . When it does and IF it turns out to be a conservative activist , I'll be the first to admit to being wrong ! If it turns out to be leftists my point will have been made , Liberal activists are more prevalent .
Time will tell all.
I say everyone keep a level head, stay steady to their values and vote with the understanding that forces will do whatever it takes to play on your fear and emotions, to change your vote. Don't give them the satisfaction.
It looks like you may have jumped the gun on this one Cred.
Breaking news announcement about 5 minutes ago says the Soros bomber was caught on Soros security cameras placing the bomb. The FBI has tweeted they already have the Soros suspect in custody and he appears to have DNC connections. They haven't said - yet - that there is a connection to the Obama/Clinton bombs, but ... Could it be a Democrat False Flag operation?
I am sure you will just call this Fake News, but we know it wouldn't be an unthinkable possibility.
Here is a link: https://www.theonion.com/tag/election-2018
I'm thinking GA just providing some comic relief... I laughed..Edit: OK, I didn't see his reply, at least I was correct, lol
I was thankful to hear that from him. I love the onion but was surprised to consider he'd been duped.
Something has to break the monotonous repetition in these forum topics hard sun. Some of it is just too much of the same thing - over and over, and over ...
I have a serious question. Around ten years ago, The Onion was known to be a satirical newspaper. I checked your link and although I see a few seemingly real articles, I also see some written to be silly in the old style. Has the publication changed? I used to read it for fun, but haven't visited in a long time.
It's still just for fun Jean. My post was just made-up stuff. The Onion link was my disclaimer. ;-)
Wow: As if the Dems weren't already fired up to the moon for the midterms, this atrocious republican incident just cranks their voting enthusiasm Up to 11: Wow
Thanks, false flag? I would certainly be surprised.
Apparently, Maxine Waters too?
"In the latest incident, a law enforcement source told Fox News that U.S. Capitol Police are investigating a suspicious package addressed to Democratic California Rep. Maxine Waters. The package is at the Capitol Hill screening facility in Maryland."
My my my my though , isn't this all sooo conveniently close to election day ....................
Think deep before assigning blame .
Sad part is these "targets " are so isolated and protected from these occurrences because of who they are that only innocent people opening mail FOR THEM would get hurt .
Can anyone here answer a question for me .......................
What are bombs designed to actually do ?
And not one of them has exploded ? Think about that .
One more "October Surprise " by the left ?
I have this theory that this could be the work of Russian Hackers alias Facebook Russians & Twitter Russian Bots.
Now Biden and De Niro too.
The #FBI has confirmed three additional packages, similar in appearance to the others – one in New York addressed to Robert DeNiro, and two in Delaware addressed to former Vice President Joseph Biden.
Notice how the NYPD are the ones doing most of the leg work on these bombings and not Sessions and the FBI? My fear is that the evidence NYPD gathers and sends to the FBI for full examination will be destroyed as soon as it gets too close to Trump.
And so what if it turns out to be a republican nut job or a democratic nut job ; how that becomes suspect to either party is apparently beyond the OP's grasp !
Except it clears the conscience of the incredible media bias .
Pravda USA wins again ?
Is there any doubt whatsoever that it was a "nut job"? Who can possibly think that the political persuasion was a big part of deciding to send out bombs? Where they were sent, probably, but the decision to hurt people?
No. It was a nut job. End of the blame game.
In a perfect world, the facts arrive before the media frenzy escalates to nothing but bad, nonfactual news.
GA, Irish Coffee ! Jamesons , coffee , Baileys ...............
Its snowing here .................It just fits .
With snow ... I agree with you Ed. I will pass on the Baily's, but the Irish coffee and Jamesons sounds right.
Figures that booze always plays into the Liquid Lunch Republicans need to show how powerful they are.
Don't even bother to go there. I saw it and heard it all when I was a Republican woman for 33 years from 1966 until 2004 when I had just about enough of the Great White MALE Republican Power boys always trying to scream others down and do they intimidation act.
Not working anymore is it? I wouldn't vote for a Republican if he was a saint. Not that the gaggle of Republican men ever are. To them, their greatest fear is deprivation of money, sex and most of all, power.
Can't win elections fairly and honestly, so you send out bombs?
"Orange Cool Aid " There is no more violent a rhetoric than a liberal ideology anywhere , 1900's Germany , Italy , Venezuela ,
Spain , Always the loudest inciting directly to revolutions , civil wars , campus riots , street marches , BLM , New Black Panthers , ANTIFA bombings , pipe bombs , molotovs ,clubs , tire fires , ---------Who always brings it to the Streets ?
The Mitch McConnell's , Paul Ryan's , The Bushes , ? No , Liberals need only follow the media that blends and then paints the stories to their causes , for the written evidence and then do an FBI check to show evidence leading to the marchers . Academia influenced ----liberal perpetrated .
Oh yeah, u again. Huh? This guy straight up tells you he can shoot someone in Times Square and you'd still like him, he tells u to believe what he says, not what u see and hear. Obama is telling people to believe in facts...sad situation that an ex President has to tell Americans to "believe" in facts.
Let's just get this over with as I'm never going to agree with you and you are never going to agree with me on anything...here goes..I'm correct and you are not...you can respond in kind if you like.
How about this , you aren't that which you claim , your defending liberals violent rhetoric is just as it seems , you can't see the OR YOU'RE IN DENIAL , the majority of violence is ALWAYS leftist .
History proves that .
You're funny..I don't like Trump...he's not a good person and that's not good for the country..how about that, huh...lol..is this fun?
"One week earlier, Trump remarked during a campaign rally in Iowa that Democrats are “really evil people” who “want to destroy people.” During the same event, he also called the press “the enemy of the people.”"
https://people.com/politics/donald-trum … ipe-bombs/
All the Times Donald Trump Has Insulted the Targets of Attempted Pipe Bomb Attacks
What about showing the OTHER side of your fairy tales?
The times the left calls out the same rhetoric ?
"Oh , Forget about that "........Huh .
You don't even begin to look at a link..you reply within 2 minutes...waste of time; already too far up Trump's bum..good fairy tales up there huh..lol
Just chill, I don't see u pointing our right wing violence..this is just getting stupid but I know what I'm getting into when I respond to you
I've never heard ANY president, Democrat or Republican, spout out hate toward Americans every day like Trump does...every one of you knows that is the truth.
He is certainly honest, and it is very clear there are many that can not face the problems he points out. He is not mincing words, he is going for the jugular, and many of us respect this. I respect he calls out those that continually misrepresent what he says and does. The truth is he is doing a very good job, and the left has lost power, He is showing them for what they are corrupt, power-hungry politicians that will stoop to anything to regain power. Open your eyes and have a look at the Democrat party of today. They have nothing to offer, and their sad BS just does not get them much anymore. It makes me wonder why one would admit to being affiliated with such foolish representatives.
It's odd how one can look at honesty and see it as bigotry? Yes, Trump points out very uncomfortable problems, and how they need to be handed. He just is not a person that sweeps problems under a carpet. He is a problem solver. This is something many American's can't except. The fact is common sense people finally noticed we are living in a dirty house and did some housecleaning. Trump is working hard to solve longtime problems. He is doing a good job.
Please read a history of your own postings and tell me how often you praise a Democrat or liberal versus how often you defend Republicans and conservatives.
Are you even kidding? I find nothing to praise in regards to the Democrat party? My history is telling of my mindset. I certainly have little if any respect for the Democrat party. I find they offer nothing in regards to an agenda that remotely represents anything I see as beneficial to the country. There is nothing to praise them for.
That's my point.
"Prejudice, or bigotry, is an affective feeling towards a person or group member based solely on that person's group membership." - Wikipedia
I don't look at my truth as bigotry. That is your concept of what I have expressed. I have no place for tolerance in regard to what the Dems represent due to their own doing. Call it what you please if that gives you some sort of means to digest it. Bigotry listens to the queen of bigots, Hillary Clinton...
He is destroying our country. I don't even care about the Dems at this point, we just have to get this fear mongering half wit out of the White House. Why try to convince me otherwise?
Trump is warning of violence if Republicans lose the house than telling preachers, look you preach to like 200 million people on Sundays, implying they need to mobilize. Trump is actively trying to divide and conquer America. This is what Trump supporters wanted and is why they came up with all the conspiracies about Obama...they wanted someone who they felt was like them to divide our nation.
Let's see. One the one hand Trump is telling preachers to tell their congregations that the nation needs to pull together, to become one and work as one people.
One the other hand, you are promoting separating the country further into two factions, to go the opposite way of our leader.
Just who is trying to divide the nation again? It really is rather fascinating to watch as Trump tries to pull the country into one people and liberals try their best to pull it apart into two. And then claim Trump is the divisive force! Sounds like a matter of "Everybody has to think as I do, or they are dividing the country!" to me.
My God perhaps you should listen to one of Trump's rallies, maybe even have a good look at what he is doing for the country and the people. Maybe instead of listening for dog whistles from the president, you should listen to what many of the Dem politicians are blatantly saying. It is scary to see what some will ascribe to as truth. You're being hypocritical in the worst way. You're taking the presidents words out of context, and perhaps you should just stop and listen. Republican's historically do not result in any form of violence or buying into picking and choosing parts of a sentence to misconstrue its contents. It is odd Dems just do not realize how foolish they look to anyone with just a bit of common sense? They dug a deep hole with Obama, and have dug it much deeper by not realizing their 2016 loss. They have nothing to offer but a form of socialism. They did just not realize American's want better, we want what America was, not a rehashed version of it. Trump is doing a good job, he is keeping promises he made, promises he won on. The Dems have certainly pulled every trick out of their bag, but have done nothing but made Republicans dig in.
2 WEEKS AGO: Trump, General Mathis, and Texas Ted Cruz ALL received suspicious packages. MSM buried it in less than a day. Selective outrage.
Whats the matter with you , Liberals don't want to hear that ! It just doesn't fit the new narrative .
"Castor seeds" sent to three people is not quite the same as actual bombs sent to 10 people.
You are absolutely right. Where was the outcry from the left? What a bunch of hypocrites.
Here's a link to the story on NBC.
" A flurry of suspicious envelopes targeting high-profile figures — including President Trump, Secretary of Defense James Mattis and Sen. Ted Cruz — were received in the past two days.
The Secret Service said in a Tuesday evening statement that it intercepted a "suspicious envelope" addressed to the president.
The mail was intercepted at a location outside of the White House. The Secret Service provided no other details about the envelope."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ri … er-n915891
They are as dangerous as bombs without detonator, A pipe filled with sulfur and projectiles can have wires hanging on it looks bad, but is about as dangerous as castor seeds.
And the police knew the bombs didn't have a detonator when they opened the package?
Want to bet they knew they were looking at seeds when they opened a package with seeds?
By the way, the total is now 12 bombs compared to 3 packages with seeds. Can you guarantee all of the bombs in the mail have no detonators?
I can guarantee packages with castor seeds won't explode when they are opened.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=Booker+Cl … ORM=CNTPNH
The work a bomb squad does is fascinating. Yes, they can take a package and get a very detailed 3-D x-ray view of what it contained in it. If they saw a detonating device, they would have blown it up. Since these packages have been handled it is easy to get this type of x-ray. A package just found in the field is a very different story. I did a story of a the life of people in the bomb squad of a city police department years ago. Quite interesting.
Just heard that there are NO TRIGGERS on any of these mail bombs ? That proves to me that this is a liberal mid term election maneuver all along ?
This is ALL very suspect Mike , As we've both said many times in so many words , We all know who the REAL activists are ? No triggers , no postage cancelling ,the chosen and obviously phony
" targets " Many people cannot fathom the depths , twists and turns of manipulative politics . I'm very reminded of the Weathermen Underground , the Black Panthers , the Patty Hearst's ...........if you will of the 1960's.
Two more, one was sent to Cory Booker and the other to Clapper @ CNN.
Does anyone think maybe the white house is behind this crazy desperate attack on Dems who are more than poised to take control of congress?? Seems like the kind of conspiracy it peddles daily with Bozo ranting and raving like a nut case about almost all the recipients of these dangerous weapons at his hate gatherings:
I'm pretty sure this was the van I saw on the live CNN feed. Just putting it out there..not making any inferences.
So this is obviously where the rubber meets the road with anti-Trumpers hypocrisy , guy apparently supports who knows who in the election and decided to act out his mindless criminal fantasies and send out unfused pipe bombs and you LOUDLY Blame Trump !
Did / Do any of you blame the Bernie Sanders supporter dude that shot up a charity Senate baseball game crippling Sen .Scalise for life , No.......Not one word ? Nothing .
Did / Do any of you condemn the people protesting , shouting down disrupting restaurant dinners as conservative people sit down peacefully to have a meal ? No - Not a word ? Nothing .
Did / do any of you condemn the violence of ANTIFA protesting , burning ,rioting , costing US cities millions of dollars in clean up , law enforcement , court costs ? NO -Not a word ? Nothing .
Liberals sure love embracing hypocrisy .................
I blame the guy who did it number one..and number 2, I blame the guy in charge who referred to these people targeted as "The Enemy of the People" Common sense. I blame the dude that shot the Senator, but Bernie wasn't spouting Enemy of the people and locker her up, laughing about body slamming reporters, etc..if you can't understand this, I can't even reply to you any longer...later tater.
Rubber meets the road for Trump supporters...maybe he should ratchet down the rhetoric!
Some effort at spin there but...ridiculous. Take the blinders off horsey.
Even Bush Jr understands the President cannot make enemies of fellow Americans in this way.
He doesn't stop people from chanting CNN sucks, lock her up, he revels in it and the spectacle instead of reveling in the great American tradition.
John McCain understood this as well..remember when he shut down the lady talking about Obama being Muslim anti-American?
The man has been identified as Cesar Sayoc, 56, according to a law enforcement official. Florida records show that Sayoc has a lengthy criminal record in the state, including a 2002 arrest for a bomb threat and others for larceny and fraud.
So, now we get to the bottom of this, thanks, Islandbites. Now it is time for the "heads to roll" and for the effluent from the Right in the form of "excuses". Just as I predicted.
Not only that, he appears to be a nut and a "half wit" as well, typical for the genre.
"Not only that, he appears to be a nut and a "half wit" as well, typical for the genre."
I dunno, Cred; he appears smart enough to feed himself, which makes him a lot smarter than the average leftie.
Go ahead and be sarcastic, but your people will pay at the polls that are coming up in a few days. I will have the last laugh, and you can note, that you have heard it here first.
Did you look at his van, he is an idiot.
A dog can feed itself, so what?
You were on a roll Cred. Right up until your last four words - then you blew it.
So, GA, you're not going to give me credit where it is due? I know the "nature" of the Right, its desperation and ruthlessness in its desire to control the narrative with no holds barred. Based on that, I knew that it HAD to be one of them that was responsible for these crimes.
I am pleased that the perp has been captured and with myself as a veritable "Sherlock Holmes".
Sure bud, you get credit for nailing it - early. But ... was it really that hard to predict?
GA, you wouldn't think so , but with all the leftist conspiracy talk from certain people, "wait and see", mentally ill explanations, I am waiting patiently for those to step forward and eat the crow that I am about to serve.
I understand your point Cred. Maybe it's like the threads that are linking the caravan to Democrats.
But ... take a breath ... This guy really seems, (remember, all I know is what the media are broadcasting), to be a moron - figuratively speaking. And there may or may not be many more like him in Trump's base, however, I think to paint the Right, (you really should get back to at least saying 'Right-wingers', as the genre of this guy is a pretty assumptive position to take.
Sorry, GA, in the age of Trump, the term Conservative or Righty has a new meaning, unlike the days, when the ideological poles were not as far apart. I have a generally negative attitude about conservatives and right leaning people
"I am sorry, Promisem, but looking at Ruby Ridges and Oklahoma City's, even going back to Alan Berg's murder in Denver back in 1984, the only difference between a rightist advocate and a rightist extremist is one happens to be a bit more polite and is not in a state of desperation, for the moment. But, as the pressure mounts and politics do not go their way, they will take up the gun, the pipe bomb, whatever to have his way and the democratic process be damned."
You are deluding yourself, or working yourself up to a frenzy, either way, these hyperbolic reactions have lessened the esteem in which I held your contributions and comments.
One has to be rational about these things, and you seem to be crossing over to a place where your thought process is closer to these 'extremists' that you are railing against than I imagined you capable of.
When you start lumping all 'Right wingers' into adjectives that allow you to villainize and dehumanize an entire group, that's a bad sign, and while quite a few on Hubpages do this (on both sides), I thought you were better than that.
Consider my trepidations over many of the things Obama did during his eight years, the lies of his administration over Benghazi for instance, which was a CIA/Administration fiasco that they tried to blame on some poor schmuck who made a YouTube video.
Or the assassination attempt by a lunatic 'lefty' who tried to kill a Republican Senator seriously harming several people... did I ever type up a tirade against 'all left wing radicals' ? ... let me answer that for you, definitively, no.
We have had two years of violence in the streets, Hollywood stars raging for someone to assassinate the President, or blow up the White House... plenty of happenings, but it didn't drive me to vilify all 'leftists'... I believe the country has always gone through turbulent times, this is not something new or 'special' or any type of 'doomsday' scenario, its just the current events, and had you lived through the Civil War, or even the 60s, as an adult, the only thing scary about these current times would be how the media seems to be frothing with lunacy.
Other than that, I believe the current social and political upheaval would seem rather tame compared to much of the rest of our history. Try to keep in mind, the pendulum will eventually swing the other way... for better or worse, it always does.
Sayoc, a registered Republican
Sayoc's Facebook page is full of pictures and videos of him attending MAGA rallies (Facebook)
https://www.foxnews.com/us/suspect-arre … -democrats
A few people here not saying anything about there predictions now. I guess I'm old school..when I'm clearly wrong, I make a point of stating, "Hey, I was wrong, it happens"
Like we said from the beginning, it definitely seems likely a Trump supporter.
Hard sun , You are still going to take the stance that because Trump , a New York Street fighter , typical NYC political loudmouth is somehow connected to a two time , criminal , recidivist ideological wack job from Florida ? And you can stop with the whole " He should be setting an example " -- school marm talk .
Every day in life people take messages from the barking dog down the street but it takes a special investigative intelligence to connect Trump to some wack job individual acting solely , in a rolling bumper sticker van , sending dud bombs to celebrities and wanna be or has been politicians .
Congratulations , you saved the world.
Time to eat a little crow, Ed? What about that Soros, left wing plot nonsense? You are going to eat it raw with no seasoning.
Thanks...you're a wack job if don't see any connection. You need a little sanity and maybe a little James Clapper in your life ..."his words count" I dare you to listen to it...lol. Take it easy...We don't want anymore bombers and our President should be a man...that's what this is about.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 … nse-nr.cnn
DNA found on at least one of the packages helped investigators identify Sayoc, officials said.
But Credence , What if this jamoke heard his voices through the spirit of his mommy ?
Lefties who will stop at nothing to shame and blame Trump for everything including the rise of Hitler should keep something in mind , All that Trump says about the fakeness of the news media is but a reflection from his followers and not a direction to his followers .
The Clinton News Network IS fake and has had a long standing war of propaganda against Trump and his followers from the beginning , Neither Trump nor his followers can feel any sympathy for the media , THEY bring much negative attention onto themselves .
When the evidence comes out and you here begin making TOTAL sense about a man who hears dog voices in his head , let us all know how that's Trump and his peoples fault , will you ?
Oh hey, just stopping by for the Ed Is Finally Going to Admit He’s Capable of Being Wrong party!!!! I brought balloons and streamers.
We're all waiting breathlessly for Ed to deliver on his promise.
Jean Bakula, I have to say THAT the most insightful post on here today !
Jean Bakula , Conservatives do NOT consider SSI disability , SSI retirement income , associated health care for either "entitlements" , we do not consider welfare help to attain work "entitlements " , we do NOT consider legal immigration short term financial benefits entitlements . We do NOT consider low interest education loans entitlements .
What we DO consider "entitlements " are excess entitlements , Obama era advancements and excesses in new entitlement granting , every phase of social entitlements increased under Obama . THAT was the turning point for conservatives turning against these advances in "Obamacialism ".Pure and simple .
The flooding of our borders is the largest reason for unease in watching our national resources slip away in these blanket social securities in numerical increases , just more proof that there is a conscious decision on the part of democrats to increase ALL 'entitlements both old and new to MORE people .
Now ADD in the demands for universal basic income , free tuition ,
open borders spending , globalism spending , Paris accords spending , sanctuary cities ,...................Is there any wonder why conservatives say " Bring back Fiscal Responsibility , Stop these new Entitlements from forming ?
"........what conservatives consider Entitlements..........? " Any new and unbridled welfare "gimmes " programs , THAT is what we consider entitlements , not the basic and necessary social securities. .
OK, I was asking because I didn't know if Medicare and Social Security for people with health issues were considered entitlements. Thanks. I have pre-existing conditions so was worried about that.
I don't think the flood of people crossing the Southern border is drastically larger than it was in prior years, it just seems that way because of these caravans. Obama was strict with kicking people out of the country and criticized by D's for it. He really only stood up for the Dreamers. I read a scroll on Fox yesterday that Mexico's President offered the caravan sanctuary, and 1700 stayed there, but the rest pushed onward. I don't think we can absorb anymore people. But I hope they are just not let in, and parents are not separated from children. That's inhumane.
The National debt has increased under President Trump. And that's without the cost of the wall if it is built. As I've repeatedly said, it's only a few far left fringe D's who want open borders. We need stricter standards there, IMHO.
I don't see how we can afford free tuition, and see our young people graduating college unable to find jobs, and not too much smarter. They need jobs and technical skills, nobody knows how to make or fix anything anymore. Since senior year in HS is a total waste anyway, we should use it to teach our young people how to do useful things, basic building and home maintenance, cooking, how to make a budget, how to write a good job resume. When I was in HS, I was college bound, (but still had a P/T job) but there were programs where kids had a P/T job in the afternoon, which often led to a F/T one after graduation. This would be a good program to bring back.
I discussed sanctuary cities, they sneaked up on us during the 1970s, and nobody stopped it, so there's a lot of blame to go around. At that time, people were getting jobs and becoming citizens, taking the correct steps. I don't know where it all went so wrong.
I don't like seeing people getting free "gifts" we pay for either. If politicians want to give out entitlements, they should present a clear plan regarding where that money is coming from. I agree the D's have not done that so far, and am disgusted with both parties lately.
I agree with that 100 % Jean and that is well stated , conservatives have always been "for " blanket social securities and even our own SS returns , as you know it is the congress that voted to spend the SS trust fund beginning in the sixties -seventies ? We now fund SS out of general funds , is my understanding . My opinion is that conservatives simply want ALL benefits related to welfare programs "welfare to work " related .
Jean ,we all earned and let the federal government save our SS , there is no welfare there in my opinion .
I for one accept mine in return gratefully .
Me too . And I hope there's a way to keep it. Maybe money could be trimmed out of something else for future recipients.
Jean , Isn't there a 2.5 percent increase coming in Jan 2019?
Not Jean, but some more facts may be relevant here..the COLA rise will actually be 2.8 percent for 2019, COLA raises happen almost every year, and this one is the largest since 2012 because the raises are directly linked to inflation.
Also, the retirement age is rising in 2019, and Medicare Part B monthly premiums are increasing along with Medicare Part A and B deductibles.
https://money.usnews.com/money/retireme … -next-year
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/10 … about.aspx
I am not sure. I better check. Thanks, I wasn't aware. I'm having some issues about money I inherited when my husband passed. It's being considered income and I am fighting the IRS, as they are wrong about this. So in the midst of this two year battle, my Medicare went down about $125.00 a month, while one of the extra parts I pay--Part B-- went up $150.00. I expect when this gets resolved, I will get what they owe me retroactively. Never a dull moment.
It appears that it will be 2.8%. And part B of medicare only goes up about $1.50, so we might get a net increase this year.
https://www.consumerreports.org/retirem … this-year/
That doesn't include as much of the full picture as the links I shared. It may not be a significant rise, but, factoring in the deductibles and everything, it's just not that good. I've worked for Anthem in Medicare Supplements and for Medicaid, so I stay on top of these things.
"Deductibles will also go up in 2019. The deductible for Medicare Part A, which covers hospital services, will increase from $1,340 in 2018 to $1,364 in 2019.
The deductible for Medicare Part B, which covers physician services and other outpatient services, will see a mild bump from $183 to $185."
https://www.kiplinger.com/article/retir … art-a.html
Sorry; I didn't see your links. Yes, it is a better picture. I wonder if it will increase what I pay ($0) for an advantage plan.
That's great...Medicare Advantage plans are the way to go for most Americans IMO, depending on your situation of course. I don't think it at all guarantees an increase for your plan's premiums.
Advantage has a big lobby that keeps the government from looting its funds as much as they do other such funds. The insurance companies love these plans as they get a lot of govt money and get some cash from some members. This was actually one of the few worthwhile causes I wrote A TON of letters in support of as part of my work for a lobbying firm.
Getting off topic here, but healthcare always an important issue.
Interesting timing, considering Trump just stated his intent to circumvent the constitution via executive order.
This is very interesting, folks. Trump thinks that by executive order he can circumvent a primary tenet of the 14th Amendment. I have taken a few classes in civics that say that such a change has to take place only through Constitutional Amendment. The rightwingers are saying that the 14th Amendment's birthplace citizenship is and has been misinterpreted and never meant to allow anyone born here to claim citizenship. All the same, the 14th needs to be properly interpreted as to the intent of the drafters, which should be determined by the Courts. Trump is an idiot if he thinks that an issue of such magnitude can be changed with just the stroke of his pen. But, should I be surprised? Just who does he think he is?
If President Donald Trump tries to end this section of the 14th Amendment with executive order, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." I believe it would get huge legal challenges and be overturned. His goal is to end the problem with anchor babies, and that is a problem.
If you want to know some history, all presidents have challenged the constitution. Obama got really happy with the executive orders.
https://www.cato.org/publications/comme … presidency
Well yeah, there's always a power struggle between the branches. It's just a matter of how bad.
Still, an odd time for you to bring up one party's supposed disrespect for the Constitution as prettypanther observed. Especially when you then turn around and admit Trump is attempting to circumvent the Constitution and it's nothing new. I just think it makes the point of your meme entirely moot. But, oh well.
I think President Donald Trump's statement was more political posturing than anything. It gets the base fired up because he is seen as someone working hard to fix the problems with immigration. If Republicans maintain the majority after the mid-terms he'll be in a perfect position to demand laws be designed to address the issue. So, what does anyone have to say about the many times Former President Obama DID write an executive order that went against the Constitution? Why were liberals so okay with this?
If Obama violated the Constitution, then I'm guessing lawsuits were filed.
We laypeople can argue all day about what violates the constitution, but until the courts rule that it happened, it's just speculation.
I could point out that he has been in a perfect position since he was elected, with his party controlling both the House and the Senate. I could also point out that a compromise on immigration that had been agreed to by both parties was killed by the White House. I don't think it contained any changes to birthright citizenship, though.
The great deal maker? Or, really just wants to make some Americans like him?
I think he's getting desperate. Have you heard all the scare tactics Fox is using because they are so afraid of the blue wave? First Trump keeps harping about the caravan, but said it had Muslim extremists in it. He had to take that back. Now Fox is on a campaign to tell us that these people have all kinds of diseases, even though they have been eradicated in all but one or two countries in Africa. And military troops on the border? We have the National Guard and Black Hawk helicopters and technology. I live in fear people will be shot. I pray that no more kids are separated from their parents.
At any rate, the caravan won't get here for at least a month. Shepard Smith of Fox has an afternoon show and let that slip. He tells the truth, I wonder how he manages to stay there (or why he wants to)! The rhetoric is so hateful.
Large numbers of troops could be required so that people do NOT get shot. A few national guard with choppers cannot stop 7,000 people without using extreme violence, not if they're dead set on coming in.
Hopefully there won't be a reason to separate children and parents. Remaining in Mexico would do the trick.
That's a relief about Part B in Medicare. I am in the midst of clearing up a financial mess right now. I was working with a forensic accountant, and now am meeting with a tax lawyer next week, familiar with the IRS.
I don't think we can accommodate the caravan here, that's for sure. They should realize that from last time. Mexico is a big country, I don't see why they can't go there. I heard on the news last week that 1700 of the caravan did stay in Mexico, but was half listening, and don't know what part of it. We have enough problems in our country.
Shouldn't they go to the embassy in their own countries if they need asylum? I thought that was how it worked.
Yes, it's more than obvious that the scare machine is in full force. It's sad that it works because we have real issues here that need to be dealt with. But, instead of dealing with it, we get this lunacy.
This 'lunacy' is brought about by years of our Congress doing absolutely nothing to address the problem.
I was reading a left leaning source challenging his right to the change, but they admitted that interpretation Trump is pushing is how that amendment was implemented from the beginning, all the way up until the 60's. I guess something old is now something new.
Interestingly enough, if you read the debates of the 14th Amendment when it was being formed/written, it is clear that they never intended it to be for those who were here illegally, or as Ambassadors or officials from other nations.
If it is interpreted as it was meant to be, there would be no 'anchor babies'.
My goodness , I often wonder what century it will take for the left to not assign every single political debate to the classification of ;"Racist "? I am now more than ever convinced that it is the American left that are the greatest racists of modern times .
Blexit Lives .
IF the media Calling Pres. Trump a racist , a white nationalist , a homophobe , islamophobe , an idiot ISN"T hate speech , I don't know what hate speech is , The media deserves everything Trump is throwing at them and more .........
You're right, you don't have any idea what hate speech is. As I remember, he called himself a nationalist, and if he's white, the label fits.
Promoting policies to take away equal rights for the LGBT community easily gets him the Homophobe label.
Why did he call his policy a Muslim ban? Why not a ban for countries with higher levels of terror? Attacking an entire religion instead of terror suspects makes him the Islamaphobe.
If he could spell basic words, he could avoid the idiot moniker, but, alas, he deserves that description as well.
a person who advocates political independence for a country.
Sharlee , Just stop it ! You keep injecting these truths into the debate and screwing up all of the left's argumentation .
Loyalty and devotion to a nation especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
Now as white folks, pretty sure you all feel he's doing a great job promoting your culture. Ask any minority, if you know any, if they feel he's promoting their culture currently.
There is NO bias or discriminatory insinuation in that paragraph.
I get it, there are plenty of people caught up in race identity politics, in lumping in everyone together and pushing those political buttons.
It makes things so much easier, to just blame another person, race, or party for all your faults, all the worlds problems, all the hardships others endure.
Its all good, love to see people put blinders on and just go with that. White people are just going to get dished out to them, what they have been dishing out to everyone else for hundreds of years. Cool.
But when this country craps the bed, and its economy tanks, it takes your future, and your children's future to the bottom of the barrel with it.
Fortunately the 'minority' people I know and associate with see the various sides to the issues, and we seem to be able to have far better discourse than I am able to accomplish here on hubpages when it comes to political matters.
That's great you have some discourse. But you seem to have missed my point. Have a conversation on whether they feel this elected official promotes their culture, or any culture other than his own. That's where many of us feel he deserves the white nationalist label some give him.
First, I agree MANY outlets give him the 'white nationalist' label, and by extension some Americans follow suit.
I think it has been discussed in various threads how this is the 'by the book' political tactics used against not just Trump, but the last few Republican presidents or presidential hopefuls. Trump has decided he isn't going to care about how they portray him or how non-PC he sounds, I think he turned this effort to demonize him to his advantage, so far.
BUT to the point of your question, I would say it depends on what culture they prescribe themselves to.
If they consider themselves Americans, and not a 'minority' or 'victim', then I do believe they feel he represents their culture.
Perhaps, if they consider themselves Christian or Jewish they also would feel he represents their culture.
Conversely, if they see themselves as Muslim, non-American (those here illegally as well as those who despise America),or full blown Communist then absolutely this is not the guy for them.
Race matters in conjunction with one's economic situation. If you own a business, and are fortunate enough to have an income well over $100k, you might be inclined to see Trump's policies far more favorably than if you are living off immigration welfare... regardless of race or religion.
Many of the 'minorities' I know are in better financial situations than I am, I suppose I could blame Affirmative Action, Equal opportunity, or whatever else is out there... I could feel animosity. Or I could accept the reality that they made better decisions than I did, that they committed to things I wouldn't to receive that Pension, to get that extra raise, or whatever the case may be.
This is still the land of opportunity, how much longer that lasts remains to be seen, but Trump appears to be extending that reality for all Americans, not just those of any particular race.
The president has truly admitted he is putting America first. He has never made a comparison between Americans in regards to religion or race? You need to try to look at facts, not propaganda such as a bias media reporting words out of context. One must not only hear part of a statement one must hear the entire statement, along with hearing the tone of the speaker and witnessing body language when a statement is made. One could be jesting, being sarcastic, and yes being truthful. You appear to lean toward "groupthink". Recently Hillary Clinton made the statement when referring to Booker and Holder -'They all look alike.." It was clear she was being sarcastic trying to make a point that some are racist. Some jumped on her statement as racist. If one really took the time to listen to the context of the statement they would know she was being sarcastic, yet insulting a group of people she felt would think that way. So, is she a racist or just a person that hopes to insult an entire group of people? In the end, the context of her statement was to insult a group of people... She was insulting the group she considers deplorable.
Is it fair to be biased against a group of people she does not agree with? Is that not a form of bias? Maybe it would do you well to check out the tweet where Trump called the media the "enemy of the people?" Trump clearly believes the media is an enemy of the people, and their constant negative bashing of him for his every word, and not reporting his accomplishments. He is not alone in that opinion. It's also clear he believes the media is not being truthful and is aiding in keeping the country divided. He has every right to state his opinion in regards to what he feels about the media. Just as Hillary was stating her opinion condemning a large group of people, without any reason.
I would agree that context matters. And yet, the whole Democrats want open borders quote parroted by the right comes from a speech Clinton gave to a company saying how in trade the US needs to have open borders. Yet, the right, took that to apply it to immigration. So, context and research needs to happen on both sides, not just accusing the liberal media of twisting words.
Words are twisted on both sides. However, I tried to make a point. Much of the time words taken out of context by a Dem gets very little coverage on the news. I am very willing to go out on a limb and say there is a notable bias in reporting anything that puts Dems in a "bad light". I gave the perfect example. How do you feel the media could handle Trump saying "they all look alike"? They would have reported out of context, and let him blow in the wind...
Fox never liked Obama. Obama never referred to Fox, or Republicans as the enemy of the people. I'd let anyone blow in the wind that kept referring to me as the enemy of the people. Perhaps this is why Trump gets no benefit of the doubt from the media nowadays. I did see them try to reach out to Trump, to give him a chance at the beginning. I don't think he deserves it now. And, that's part of politics, whether Trump, or anyone, likes it.
"Obama never referred to Fox "? Really , Funny .......I heard him do it a few times .
Reading comprehension: "Obama never referred to Fox, or Republicans as the enemy of the people" Pointless having conversations with those who can't acknowledge facts or even what they read. Remember, what you are seeing is really not what you're seeing. I guess, lol.
Have you heard what comes out of Maggot Man's mouth? How do you Maggot Man supporter expect any of us who were raised to respect the law DARE to insist we respect him?
Thousands throng and listen to President Obama. The only states Trump can get any semblance of Maganuts for an audience is in the deep impoverished states like Pence's IN, Walker's FL or KKKemp's GA.
There will be a very very severe reckoning for people who supported Trump knowing he was nothing more than a showman with an appetite for audience praise and lying 30 times a day.
And you want us to respect him? On what planet?
Actually, Obama did on rare occasions make reference to Fox news. However, he was not belligerent in his remarks. And actually, Trump was referring to the Media, not the general public in the "enemies of the people" tweet. Not sure how you came to the conclusion he referred to citizens as enemies? Perhaps I am misunderstanding your comment? I respect your opinion but do not agree that the media ever reached out to Trump? I have witnessed 24/7 Trump bashing from CNN as well as MSNBC. One can tune in night or day, and not go 4 seconds before hearing a derogatory statement on Trump. As a rule for something he said. CNN and MSNBC do not report his accomplishment. They are more than bias in this respect. Not sure how one would not note this?
If I were to compare Obama and Trump's method of speaking to the people, I would have to conclude. Obama was always guarded, rehearsed, one heard exactly what he wanted them to hear. But I always came out on the other end feeling his words added up to what I was comfortable with hearing. Now, on the other hand, Trump does not have the ability to skirt any issues. Yes, he is unfiltered, unable to bend or hide his thoughts. He is unable to say what I would like to hear in regards to our countries problems. However, he is facing those problems and making every attempt to solve those problems.
It's clear he most likely failed in his college speech classes, as it is also clear Obama got As...
"Actually, Obama did on rare occasions make reference to Fox news"
I didn't state Obama never referred to Fox news. I stated he never referred to it as the enemy of the people.
I think we now have a contest as to who can come across more genuine. For many Americans, genuine means sounding uneducated. We need people who understand government and running government as opposed to those who are good at sounding like commoners.
Trump is absolutely not a commoner, but he has the shtick down.
Obama can sound rehearsed even when he's not as he can speak coherently and in clear sentences, even when off the cuff.
It's anti-American to refer to fellow Americans as the enemy just because you disagree with them politically. We have an un-American President.
How did a stable genius fail any courses?
You would have to live your entire lifetime in NY or NJ to know just how sleazy Trump really is. It is no mistake his 14 year old brother died of alcoholism. Donny Boy hated the idea he couldn't be FIRST and first in line to get Daddy Fred's assets. (Which Donny Boy did do until his surviving brother and 2 sisters took him to court for falsely claiming power of attorney over Daddy's assets.).
He was expelled at two military schools, one for beating up a fellow student and the other for cheating on an exam.
By the time Daddy Fred handed him $350 million to be rid of a wayward son, Don Jr. believed he could compete with Hugh Hefner for "Playboy of the Universe," even to becoming a member of the McAfee NJ Playboy Club. Which, by the way, he got thrown out of for manhandling the Bunnies.
So, onto a friendship with the McCarthy Era, Roy Cohn, himself an overindulged Mommy's boy who died owing millions to his friends and of AIDS even as he criminalized gay men.
Trump learned how to be ruthless from Cohn and now believes no law can hold him. Without his Killer Keith Schiller as his $85,000/month body guard and Schiller's goons to intimidate and rough up anyone in Maggot Man's way, he's a flaming coward.
Without Kasowitz and Sekulow and the judges these two are connected to, Maggot Man would not always get a slap on the wrist.
Mueller is coming! Mueller is coming! Cohen is down, Pappadopolis and Flynn are too and 22 Russian hackers. Stone is next.
Thank you for correcting me on the enemy of the people comment. No Obama never called the media or citizen's enemy of the people, and yes Obama always sounded coherent, and well spoken... However, to me, he always sounded well rehearsed. He did have a good knack for speaking off the cuff, yet at times appeared to be talking down to his audience.
"For many Americans, genuine means sounding uneducated." Not sure why you feel qualified to make this kind of statement? In my long life, I have been well exposed to people that would be considered very well educated due to a superior education. I have also been exposed to some with very little education. It's very hard to say that education level alone really affects one's level of common sense or the ability to understand how government works? However, In regards to- " We need people who understand government and running government as opposed to those who are good at sounding like commoners. "
I think most look at how government works by how it is working for them. I also think some that you call the uneducated see a president that is doing what he promised, and most likely satisfied. This might be due to so many presidents that have previously made promises they just did not come close to keeping. So, does the presidents "shtick " resonate with the people? Yes, too many it does. Plus many of us are willing to overlook a president that talks like he is at one's kitchen table. And yes it well appears this man did not at all understand government or how it runs. But he sure knows how to do the job of solving our government's long-time problems, and he makes it all look so easy. Makes one wonder why previous presidents did so little... Some of us see Trump as a man that cares about all the people and is working daily to make things better. The media is keeping some in states of hysteria due to how the president speaks. Words... Maybe it's time to realize he may not be all of what we had hoped in regards to his personality, but he sure is a hell of a worker...
"It's anti-American to refer to fellow Americans as the enemy just because you disagree with them politically. We have an un-American President. "
He was clearly referring to the media in his "enemy of the people statement". The original tweet and thereafter statements were very clear as to who he was referring. Yes, these journalists and talk jocks are American's if you are making reference to them. However, he certainly was not referring to the Democrat party. Yes, pundits have repeated his sentiment as to direct it to cover Dems. That's known as misconstruing a statement and changing its context.
“Now for you Democrats. I guess I’m including you too, the media. You’re a part of the Democrat Party.”
Well, we can connect the dots with this Trump statement about Dems being the enemy..not to mention all the other below the belt statements he's used to bring our country to new lows. Lock her up, etc. etc.
A hell of a worker? I'm just going to assume that's sarcasm. I don't think the guy ever had to work a day in his life.
Days Trump has spent at Mar a Lago:
Cost of flights to Mar a Lago (17 so far):*
Days Trump has spent at Bedminster:
Cost of flights to Bedminster (19 so far):*
Trump has visited his clubs once every this many days since his inauguration:
Projected visits to golf clubs in four years:
Projected visits in eight years:
Total times Obama played golf during his eight year Presidency:
Trump's only put our nation on a disastrous course and the results of tomorrow's elections are likely to reflect this.
I do respect your opinion as well. We just clearly and vastly disagree on that man and what he's doing to our country.
Both twist words, and none so well as Trump. He is playing the same games as the Dems have always done. Is it nice? No, it's ugly politics. The Dems are just not accustomed to getting back as good as they give. It's a draw. The open borders talk that Trump dishes out at every rally is just reminding his base that Dems in government just won't make an immigration deal. he fights very dirty, and his fighting is shaking up Washington. And let's face it, it's not going away anytime soon.
Well , you're wrong , I do know what hate speech is and too bad there aren't consequences for using it ,both hear and in "real "media .You failed to make your intended connections there . For instance nationalist and white - no connections . Muslim ban - Islamophobe .....Nope. Spelling ......Idiot ? Nope ..............
Ken , I just don't see America moving towards Socialism in our future , the left yes , but all of America , No. Look at the groundswell in EU countries at present , there seems to be a movement towards ,similar to Trump, -----a returning nationalism . Mass Immigration has cost many nations dearly Sweden , France , the UK . , cities are experiencing major cultural shock , crime is on the rise in places , crimes against women , culture wars , religious conflicts ...............
Do you really see America moving towards the European Socialism ,
especially as these nations seem to be rejecting the culture changes brought on by mass immigration ? AND many European nations that are considered Socialist , have a one item economy , Oil for instance ?
The way the 'refugee crisis' and 'open borders' and 'globalism' efforts and issues have been handled couldn't have been much worse if they were trying to fail.
The biggest problem is our leaders have no respect for the people, in fact I believe many of them have a disdain for 'Western' citizens as they feel it is beneath them to even have to justify themselves or their actions to the 'lower classes'.
Many of our own leaders don't cherish or believe in our system of Freedom and Liberty, they look at a country like China and envy the fact that China's leaders can imprison or kill anyone they want to, anyone considered a threat or opposition.
Eventually there will be a camera on every street corner, in every public or business building, everything you type on line, or text, or tweet will all be monitored and known, you will have a Social Credit, and for those that conform and do as the Government wants they will be rewarded, and those that cannot conform, and cannot function in that society, or have no value to it, they will be marginalized, discarded people, living on the fringes of society.
I don't know if that is ten years away, twenty, but a borderless world, where your ability to 'live the good life' will depend on your obedience to the Government is not far off at all.
Like I said, Trump has delayed its arrival date by some years now, but its coming... one way or the other it will become reality. The younger generations are much more programmed to accept this fate, many are convinced this would be the preferable way, they will work to see that arrives sooner rather than later.
Ken , I meant the above for the other thread but answer where you wish .
If there is such a "blue wave " in these mid terms , It will not be because of the independent intelligence , in depth analysis ,or political brilliance , nor a liberal party "caring about a marginalised people " , it will not be because of youth protests , celebrity protests , Oprah or any others hollywood or camera filled stadiums .
It will be because the liberal news media was able to entice an entire ideology into a state of socialist indoctrination , it will be because of promise of entitlement politics , The academic inbreeding of a generation or two of people wanting more from government for themselves than for any good of others .
There is a trainload of reasons that the above lies are believed by those on the left but the biggest reason for such propaganda is that it's because you are told to believe it , You are told that Fox news is hate mongering , you are told that your leftist cause is the anointed cause .
I listen and read more news media that most people here , it is one of my addictions , dozens of sources of news media . I am however more fascinated by the left leaning majority of USA Pravda machine and the people who swallow it whole , with not an ounce of independent analysis required .
" I think everyone should watch their words more carefully ....." and yet you on the left with your bias news media belong to the greatest party of hate known to modern Americans , Actually Democrats should rename their party to The Pravda Party for all of the independent thought originating from it . bottom line there ; If I had children coming from this ideology I would be terrified .
Democrats might have little net gain , that is my prediction , And in that prediction democrats should learn an extremely important political lesson , In that bias , hate , violence and an indoctrinated consciousness is a dangerous direction to go in politically .
Actually, it will be a rebellion against the fear-mongering of the right. It will be a giant middle finger to a president that says Americans on the left and in the media are the enemy. It will be a statement that the government should not be be giving financial windfalls to the top 1%, but should look to help it's citizenry with its resources. That it should curb spending before cutting taxes in a fiscally responsible manner.
You seem really afraid of this socialism idea and the US becoming some police state run by the government. Who pays for the military, police, and fireman currently? Are there any other developed countries where government run health care works? You know, countries like Canada, Japan, France, and the United Kingdom. Are they dictatorships?
That's great that you watch a lot of media. It's painfully obvious that you've bought into the sources that tell you to hate the left and treat them as the enemy. I've giving you facts about which side commits most of the murders in this country based on ideological hate. Facts you had no rebuttal to. So, if you want to keep making fabrications about the violent left, please do so with some iota of factual information to back that up. Otherwise, you just sound brainwashed.
40 Acts Of Violence By The Radical Left In The Month Of October Alone
There was an assassination attempt against President Trump:
October 3, 2018: Ricin and threatening letter sent to Trump
This assassination attempt also targeted high-ranking Trump officials:
October 3, 2018: Defense Secretary James Mattis and FBI director Wray sent ricin letters.
The New York Times openly fantasized about Trump’s assassination:
October 25, 2018: New York Times runs story fantasizing about Trump’s assassination
One MSNBC commentator called for the military to remove Trump from office:
October 18, 2018: MSNBC guest calls on military to remove Trump
There appears to have been an assassination attempt against Senator Susan Collins (R-ME) for her support of Brett Kavanaugh:
October 16, 2018: Person claimed ricin was in letter sent to Senator Collins home
No fewer than five Republican campaign centers and a club have been vandalized: [Update: six]
October 29, 2018: [Update] Four shots fired into Volusia County, FL Republican Headquarters, police say
October 2, 2018: Vandals Hit IL GOP Headquarters With ‘RAPE’ Graffiti
October 25, 2018:GOP headquarters vandalized in Iowa City, IA
October 23, 2018: Boulder thrown through Rep. McCarthy’s (R-CA) office window
October 12, 2018: GOP office vandalized in Mesa, AZ
October 12, 2018: Antifa Smash Windows, Deface Doors of Metropolitan Republican Club in Manhattan
There have been 12 rape and death threats aimed at Republicans, their families, and supporters:
October 24, 2018: N.J. GOP Congressional Candidate Receives Letter Threatening His Children
October 19, 2018: New York Man Charged With Threatening Two Senators Over Kavanaugh Support
October 2, 2018: 2 hospitalized after exposure to powdery substance at Cruz’s Houston campaign office
October 16, 2018: DFL Employee Calls for Republicans to be Beheaded
October 8, 2018: Leftist Teacher Tweets: “So Who’s Gonna Take One For the Team and Kill Kavanaugh?”
October 15, 2018: Vermont GOP House Candidate Receives Death Threat
October 7, 2018: Sen. Cory Gardner claims wife received a beheading video over Kavanaugh vote.
October 4, 2018: Republican Senators Hit With Death Threats Amidst Kavanaugh Fight
October 8, 2018: Rand Paul’s Wife: I Sleep with a Loaded Gun Thanks to Leftists’ Threats
October 6, 2018: Sen. Collins Flooded with Abusive Tweets Threatening Death, Violence
October 17, 2018: TN Restaurant owner’s life threatened for renting space to GOP’s Marsha Blackburn
October 11, 2018: Anti-Trump Protester Threatens to Rape Conservative Reporter
There have been nine assaults and attempted assaults against Republicans
October 18, 2018: Dem operative for Soros-funded group arrested for ‘battery’ against Nevada GOP candidate’s campaign manager
October 6, 2018: Kavanaugh Protesters Accost Elderly Trump Supporter
October 5, 2018: Protesters Chase Graham To His Car Saying They Will Remove Him From Office
October 2, 2018: GOP Congressman Andy Harris (R-MD) assaulted by protesters
October 10, 2018: Susan Rice’s Republican Son Assaulted at Pro-Kavanaugh Event
October 16, 2018: Left-wing comedian gets physical with Trump supporter at Hooters
October 16, 2018: Republican candidate Shane Mekeland punched in Minnesota restaurant
October 16, 2018: Republican State Rep. Sarah Anderson assaulted in Minnesota
October 13, 2018: VIDEO: Republican Justin Fareed’s Campaign Canvasser Allegedly Chased, Assaulted
There have been six acts of harassment and open calls to harass Republicans:
October 28, 2018: Left-wing mobs disrupt Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) rally
October 20, 2018: Watch–Angry Leftists Harass McConnell, Wife at Restaurant: ‘Why Don’t You Get Out of Here?’
October 17, 2018: Portland Antifa tells 9/11 NYPD widow “YOUR HUSBAND SHOULD FUC*ING ROT IN THE GRAVE”
October 17, 2018: Professor calls for harassing Republicans at restaurants, sticking ‘fingers in their salads’
October 8, 2018: Left-Wing Terrorist Group Antifa Takes Over Portland, Harasses Old Man
October 6, 2018: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) harassed at airport
October 1, 2018: Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Badgered At Airport By Anti-Kavanaugh Activists
Three high-ranking Democrats have called for more violence and incivility:
October 21, 2018: Obama’s former deputy secretary of state, Philippe Reines says harassment of McConnell and his wife “is fine”
October 9, 2018: Hillary Clinton opposes “civility” with Republicans.
October 10, 2018: Eric Holder Tells Dem Activists: ‘When They Go Low, We Kick ‘Em’
CNN called for more harassment of Republicans:
October 10, 2018: CNN says mobs have “constitutional right” to chase Republicans out of restaurants
Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) said Republicans deserved to have their Manhattan club vandalized:
October 16, 2018: Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) Blames GOP for Antifa Attack on Manhattan Club
A left-wing news outlet blamed Republican Rep. Steve Scalise for nearly being murdered:
October 8, 2018: Raw Story’s Editor: Steve Scalise ‘Accomplice’ to His Attempted Murder
A Trump supporter’s truck was lit on fire:
October 11, 2018: A truck with ‘Trump 2020’ bumper stickers was left at a bar overnight. Someone set it on fire.
http://dcwhispers.com/here-is-a-list-of … ZsO2kp3.97
"It will be a statement that the government should not be be giving financial windfalls to the top 1%, but should look to help it's citizenry with its resources."
Implicit in this statement is the concept that government owns what others have earned, for govt. has no resources. What it gets it is taking from the people. Are you sure that's what you intended to say - that govt. is responsible to redistribute the wealth it's people have earned and built?
There's nothing implicit in it. The government takes in tax revenue and makes choices how to spend it. The government makes choices how much to tax different earners. And until the eighties, taxed the wealthy at a very high rate. Now, forty years later, a high rate of taxation for the uber-wealthy is taboo for some reason among members of the conservative party.
You've got Ed down below here saying how we should all fall to the ground and worship the ground they walk on for keeping wages at 1970's levels while they hoard all the wealth.
While most economists agree that to grow the economy, you have to increase the demand side of the process. You do this by increasing spending by the middle class. You do that by increasing wages, not by some trickle down fantasy.
" And until the eighties, taxed the wealthy at a very high rate."
I'm sorry, but that isn't true. What IS true is that the top rate was very high...and that no one paid at that super high rate. In matter of fact, taxes on the rich are being paid today at a higher rate than in the past.
"You've got Ed down below here saying how we should all fall to the ground and worship the ground they walk on for keeping wages at 1970's levels while they hoard all the wealth."
Now that's a pretty silly thing to say - I personally worked through the 70's and I guarantee you that wages today are higher than they were in the 70's. Only those willing to make gross exaggerations would ever make a statement like that.
"While most economists agree that to grow the economy, you have to increase the demand side of the process. You do this by increasing spending by the middle class."
True. So we tax the middle class to death, and then give the proceeds to the bottom economic class. All while we cry out that we need to require a handful of people (the rich) to pay a thousand times what others do for the exact same product.
"Now that's a pretty silly thing to say - I personally worked through the 70's and I guarantee you that wages today are higher than they were in the 70's. Only those willing to make gross exaggerations would ever make a statement like that."
I'm willing to go out on a limb here and state this is linked to inflation, lol.
You may go out on a limb all you wish.
I and a strongly liberal friend created a spreadsheet, showing costs from the 60's compared to now, along with prices for common purchases such as housing and food. We also showed costs in man-hours worked as more indicative of the difficulty of surviving or having "things".
In most cases, whether from minimum wage earners or average for the country, we are able to have an easier, better life now than in the 60's. It is not linked to inflation, then, but a simple statement of fact: we can buy more with an hour's work, both necessities and luxuries, now than we could then.
I'm just replying to your, "silly" and "gross exaggerations" statement. I don't have the will or time to argue specifics. It's just not so "silly" when you consider inflation.
Actually, it is. First, there was no mention of inflation, and second the average standard of living has increased greatly since the 70's. That makes it "silly" and a "gross exaggeration".
"I've given you facts ....................." The greatest lie ever told by your party's indoctrinated sense of modern reality , No there is only one fear on the right , that the party of US socialism is so far behind it's own "catching up " with European socialism's in meltdown mode that you may never have a real grasp on reality itself. Thus compromising forever the two party system here Or , " Canada " a nation of fully one tenth of the US population , where one successful oil company in Canada could pay for their free health care , yet look at the mess it's in .
The same Canada that if it wasn't next door to the USA would suffer the same downfalls as Greece's economic woes . That whole ."..........top one percent ...windfalls ......." What a joke , the top one percent in America is who feeds America's economy . Next time you stop at the 1% rich guys house , ask him what companies he created , how many gainfully employed he has , how many small business' and subcontractors he feeds ? That pumpkin latte shop at the corner of your block wouldn't survive without the rich guys employee traffic , the farm stand ; the landscape guru across the street , Do us all a favor and thank a 1% er next time you meet one.
"Facts,... facts .......facts ......the most murders in this country based on ideology , Hogwash ! Leftists in America "protesting " have cost our nation enough money in the last twenty years to pay off our national debt , Thank you Obama .
No , apparently your party uses too big a words for your own understanding ," fabrications " for instance , your whole party's abhorrent political platform of late . "brainwashed " , keep up the great work in leftist run academia , your in deep brainwash mode on the left and you may be lost to reality for good . "Police state " is actually how your party attracts voters , keeps them , controls them .
Might as well turn off that CNN for an hour and turn on your music for all the unbiased media your party, your people , your youth attains from honest reporting .
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