Once again our Commander-In-Chief waxes idiotic. Is there anything anyone can take from this statement which calms the spirit. I mean dammit man!!!
In positive news, sales of waders are up 13%
I watched it live Randy, I can't even stomach the sight anymore: He acts like a babbling senile idiot, he's been all over the pace about gun control saying the exact opposite of what he said not too long ago which indicates a very WEAK and forgetful mInd: I've been right about many things pertaining to Donald, some very obvious and I told everyone that this elderly quasi-man exhibits almost ALL symptoms of PSYCHOPATHY and each and every day he proves me to be right on the button again:
The question is, HOW much LONGER do we allow the most unqualified, sickest of puppies who adores and worships Vladimir Putin, hold the keys to our oval office while manically DESTROYING this once great country, before we do what is necessary, what is required, what is INEVITABLE, an involuntary REMOVAL:
There's another question that needs to be asked, and very few are asking it. Actually there are several questions that need to be asked.
1. How, in a supposed first world country, has it come to be that such a large number of people actually elected this person and thought he was sane and good?
2. Taking the gerrymandering and the electoral college into consideration, quite clearly, American elections are rigged. Where is the outcry? Why isn't htere a very powerful push-back against this? Why is government not fixing this?
3. Why is there such an anti-intellectual and anti-science stance in the USA? Why is government not investing more heavily in science. China is now overtaking the USA.
4. Why is there such poverty in the USA? Surely everybody should, at least, be able to live without worrying about going bankrupt due to medical bills or how to pay the rent? Why is government not fixing this?
5. Why do Americans still believe in gods when the rest of the first world has long gotten over belief in magical entities? Of course, the rest of the first world has a lot of safety nets if one loses one jobs and needs medical help, so they are not dependent on imaginery friends for hope and help.
Most of what you describe is attributable to conservatism in America (except the gerrymandering - either party in power will try to use that. Congress needs to and can ban it for federal elections)
It is the gerrymandering that is the problem, not the electoral college. Our founders chose that because, as flawed as it is, it was the least worse of three alternatives, the popular vote being one.
The problem with the electoral college today is that the electors aren't free to vote like the founders wanted.
Don't be so gullible Randy. He didn't really say that. That was just one of those Deep State video manipulations. They tapped into the news organizations' satellite feeds and inserted a fake segment.
Reporters on the ground say what he actually said was not "I am the chosen one," but "I am the one chosen by God."
That makes a big difference. He wasn't anointing himself, he was only acknowledging God's anointment of him.
My bad, Gus. It must be because I hate America.
Exactly, see, there is a common sense answer.
Some people are looking for anything to hate on these days, Randy being the worst of them.
There are a myriad of reasons to despise the Trumps, they give us more reasons with each passing day, way too many to list here, and when an illegitimate 73 year old president looks to the sky and declares he's the "CHOSEN One" on global television as charlatan false idols do, in front of every ASTONISHED and Shocked American and every enemy around the globe, it's absolutely a sign of a SERIOUS Metal Illness, Hallucination, Delusion, a "Delusion of Grandeur", Uncontrollable Narcissism: Any Psychiatrist will say it's just another Warning Sign and how many MORE Warning Signs do we need before congress reacts the way it needs to, the way our constitution demands that they do in order to save what's left of this rapidly crumbling third world state?
By the way, the ONLY entity that would "CHOOSE" Donald Trump is not domiciled Upstairs, but he lives, slithers and breathes burning embers and ashes in a white hot dungeon DOWNSTAIRS:
Ken, I think President Donald Trump plays the liberals like a fiddle. I believe he looked up in the air just to get them to engage in their deranged responses. Actually, what I've seen, the liberal responses have been pretty ridiculous.
Someone is being played like a fiddle. That is a certainty.
So, Read, you think Trump IS the Chosen One? Is that it?
I found several things to hate about Trump's MO, Ken. And his supporters are not much better.
Randy, I find this accusation that we hate Trump confounding. Of course we hate him. Generally speaking, I hate people who:
1. Lie all the time
2. Suggest that assaulting women is acceptable behavior
3. Heap verbal abuse on people for things like sex, disability; etc.
Why should I exempt Trump?
I choose to love Trump to polictal death. Trump using God's name, has killed more people than for any other reason.
Not much will get better, unless a third party gets elected. That has not happen since George Washington.
Why does pointing out the truth equate to hate?
It boggles my mind.
Does that make you feel better?
It is also called "negative press" when his lies and false statements are pointed out by all of the unbiased news media - hell, even Fox News points them out once in a while (although Fox Opinion doubles down on them)
Why is it hate to point to the truth? Good question. I guess it is a conservative quirk.
Uh oh, un un, Nope. Your bias is showing Scott. My experience says that Conservatives do not have a monopoly on that "quirk."
Chosen One? Chosen one by God? Pfftt! That's nothing. Here's Trump's quoting someone likening him to the second coming of God:
"Thank you to Wayne Allyn Root for the very nice words. “President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world, not just America, he is the best President for Israel in the history of the world...and the Jewish people in Israel love him....like he’s the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God...But American Jews don’t know him or like him. They don’t even know what they’re doing or saying anymore. It makes no sense! But that’s OK, if he keeps doing what he’s doing, he’s good for.....all Jews, Blacks, Gays, everyone. And importantly, he’s good for everyone in America who wants a job.” Wow!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta … wsrc%5Etfw
"The one chosen by God"?
Just who in the hell does this guy think that he is?
Frankly, GA, the only difference I see in those two statements would be "I am the chosen one" doesn't specify who chose him. It only implies that it was God, but it could have been the people, which it was not. Hillary won the popular vote. Either statement is subjective
Could you please explain the difference you see in them?
Sure thing MizBejabbers. In the first; "I am the chosen one," he spoke from God's chair, in the second; he heard from God's chair. Easy-peasy.
*By the way, that comment was meant to be too silly to include any serious considerations like your popular vote thing.
Sorry, I didn't realize it was tongue-in-cheek. My bad.
I think you missed something Tess. Take a look at my original comment, and then my responses to others, and if you still have that question I will explain my responses to you.
I've read through your things several times.
I truly do not understand where you are coming from.
Are you a conservative?
Do you support Trump?
Okay Tess, It seems that sometimes the obvious isn't always obvious to everyone, so I will explain my comment.
From my original comment:
"That was just one of those Deep State video manipulations. They tapped into the news organizations' satellite feeds and inserted a fake segment."
Do you really think, that I think that it is technologically possible for this to happen in the situation of a live event with multiple satellite feed sources and dozens of press representatives and their notebooks and phones?
Beyond that, such a fantasy occurrence could have no impact on the written and in-person reporting of the event. Do you think that I would think only the video broadcast of the event is what folks would know?
In making a dangerous assumption I am assuming you are slightly familiar with my past forum participations and am concerned that you think I would think the satellite feeds were the world's only source of information, or that I am a Deep State advocate. Are you one? Is that why you have the impression that I am?
Next was my response to Credence2:
""The one chosen by God"?
Just who in the hell does this guy think that he is?"
"I gave it my one shot Cred. From here on it's on you guys. ;-)
I thought sure the smiley, combined with the Deep state silliness, and that I did not double-down and reassert or defend my original response were obvious indicators. Apparently, I was wrong.
And then there was this clincher, in the comment you replied to:
"*By the way, that comment was meant to be too silly to include any serious considerations like your popular vote thing."
I bluntly stated my original comment was a silly one. Yet, you ask why I defend Pres. Trump. When asked to review my comments, you claim you did, and still come back asking why I defend him.
Basing my thought on some of your previous declarations of capabilities, maybe I am the one missing something. Maybe you are pulling my leg and I am too dumb to know it. *shrug
Nostradamus did predict the rise, in the 21st century, of an Orange tinged tyrant, whose exploits and brutality would know no bounds.
I like Gorka’s take on what President Trump said: “President Trump never fails when it comes to two things: Delivering the MAGA Agenda, and making the Left’s collective head explode. His most recent comments have produced no shortage of the latter.
Of course, President Trump is right when he says that he is “the chosen one;” specifically, he was referring to the ongoing trade war with China. And there should be no doubt in anyone’s mind that he is most definitely the right man for the job when it comes to taking on China and holding them accountable for decades of cheating us on trade and manufacturing.
But he is the chosen one in many other ways too. He is by far the only one who truly understands the threat of illegal immigration, as well as the need for a much more sensible foreign policy. In all of these aspects, President Trump is significant because he has completely shredded all past notions of political orthodoxy and “business as usual” with regards to these major issues. He is the one who pulled back the curtain on the elite in our country, in both parties, and has awakened millions of Americans to what truly needs to be done to combat these problems and truly fight for America, which is something the establishment political class never cared to do.
Everything happens for a reason, and this is no less true when it comes to whoever becomes President of the United States. Donald J. Trump was meant to be President for all of these reasons, and more. And that is why the Left hates him so much, because it is our time to shine instead of theirs.”
Good grief. Where do these people come from?
Good luck with the fat orange in office getting China to change her mind.
Can you say "success?"
"President Donald Trump's latest trade war escalation against China appears to have had an immediate effect on Asian markets and the Chinese Yuan, sending both tumbling early on Monday morning.
Chinese Vice Premier Liu He indicated early on Monday that the communist nation was willing to negotiate with the U.S. to prevent the trade war from escalating."
https://www.dailywire.com/news/51032/br … n-saavedra
Since China has triples US GDP growth yearly and will become 21 century super power, soon to come. Then China must be doing it for the right reasons and winning the world's trade parners. China is moving better direction for the natural environment and have not had a major war since 1979. It's time for the US to get with health first and vote for the Green party rather than vote between a turd and a douche bag.
Trump is the "chosen one" alright - chosen for delusions. My wife just told we she watched Trump say Alabama needed to prepare for Hurricane Dorian (this right after being briefed by FEMA). Upon being corrected by weather people telling him Dorian is nowhere near Alabama, he called them Fake News.
The man is missing a few light bulbs for sure, but then so are his supporters for blindly following this nut job.
It is a symptom of his dangerous mental illness
And #TraitorTrump keeps on Lying. From this weekend in front of the G6:
1. Melania has gotten to know the murderous Kim Jong-Un. - LIE, she has never met him. Just like his bald-faced lie that his father was born in Germany.
2. "we gave them $150 billion." - We never gave Iran any money that wasn't theirs to begin with. Even if he doesn't like giving peoples money back to them, he lied about the amount; in fact they got access to 10s of billions in frozen assets.
3. "The EU is another one: we've been losing $180 billion a year for many years." - more lies. He knows very well that the trade deficit with the EU never exceeded $114 B in 2018 and much lower in previous years. He also misleads in making the gullible think a trade deficit is bad - it is not as any non-Trump economist will tell you
4. Trump said of China: "We have billions and billions coming in." (tariffs) - HE KEEPS lying about this. AMERICANs, not the Chinese pay our tariffs. Ask any 5th grader.
5. "Trump claimed again that unemployment for Asian Americans is at the lowest rate "ever." - Sighhhh, lie. Asian unemployment is higher than in the last month of Obama's term.
6. "But we are now the number one energy producer in the world " - IT IS THE "NOW" that is the lie. We gained that spot under Obama in 2012.
When is his LYING going to stop?? I guess in 17 months.
Come on My Esoteric, give the hashtags a break. It makes it look like you are trying to be a millennial. ;-)
Otherwise . . . you did ok.
BTW - Just started a hub on a case for treason against Donald Trump. I think it is strong and deserves he the hashtag.
I've been told there was once a fella who was crucified by saying such a thing....
I remember John Lennon being assassinated because he said he was bigger than God
Is that your idea of a politically correct statement?
No ..it is . Not.. Muhammad Ali used to say he was the greatest
One thing which has ceased to amaze me is how self righteous the left can be when even just a casual, of the cuff and innocuous statement is made by Trump.
He must be the devil in their leftist bible.
When he tells his brainwashed supporters that the left, immigrants and the media are the enemy of America, and some of them send pipe bombs and begin shooting, his place in hell is all but assured. So your devil reference is more than earned.
You forget, it is the Right that has a monopoly on self-righteousness - especially the religious Right.
What the non-Right knows and the Right does not is that Trump is a known narcissist of the first order and that he believe's what he says (at the moment - who knows what he believes in the next).
While other presidents may have felt the same way, none had the temerity to say it out loud. It was no joke to Trump. I can just image the total, mindless outrage the Right would have erupted in if Obama has said the same thing.
I saw the clip. This guy was not claiming anything special. It was off the cuff. Saying otherwise is either willful ignorance or just a burning desire to believe he meant he was some 'chosen' one. It was not, in my opinion, a serious comment.
I hate junk like that and was, when I heard it was said, disgusted. Seeing the clip I realized it was just another over reaction by those looking for opportunity for negative reaction.
Ali said himself, he is not the greatest of all time. He said it was just a promotional stunt.
Lennon said the Beatle were more popular than Jesus. Which was true at the time.
WG Bush said God told him to start war on Iraq, his little dog confirm it.
If Trump thinks he is the next messiah. His sheep will know, as they have followed a few.
Our president is mentally ill. This is just more evidence of it, not that the 40% will care.
How many MORE "Trump Hallucinations" must we and our Enemies witness on global television before he's REMOVED and sent straight to the psyc ward? Do we wait until he hears SATAN wisper in his ear demanding that he NUKE Iran, or Japan or Australia?????
He also LIED through his false teeth during the very same episode of apparent delusion saying we're winning the tariff trade war with CHINA which everyone knows is preposterous:
I'll wager you'll get a few challenges on your statement, Sandy. From the usual suspects, of course.
45% and growing, come on...when the alternative is dotterring Creepy Joe, he is only going to become more popular, not less.
"Creepy Joe"? nope, I think you might have him CONFUSED with the real CREEP, the Creep who insisted that his last remaining followers vote for an alleged PEDOPHILE for our U.S. Senate and that's nothing less than EVIL and before any white nationalist around here tries to DENY he actually asked his cultees to do perform that despicable act, he did, it's the TRUTH and it's an Outrageous ABOMINATION: Just one more REASON to DESPISE the Trumps and pray for his swift removal from our white house premises:
Nah, it is actually more like 30% are the true faithful. The other 10% - 15% don't want to change anything while the economy is OK. As soon as Trump drives the economy down, they are gone.
If people voted today based on Trump's popularity in each state, he would be creamed in the electoral college. At the moment he would lose AK, AZ, FL, OH, and IA. That he will lose PA, WI, and MI is a given now; they won't make the same mistake twice because we will shut down the Russian propaganda machine that won him those states.
This type of thing always creeps me out. I think Trump may be playing to evangelical belief that God chooses our leaders. Of course, being Trump, he's got to be the best of the best.
That is an interesting analysis. Trump making sure he's playing to his evangelical base. That's calculated.
Question - are Evangelicals even Christian? They certainly don't follow Christ's teachings nor want their elected officials to. I hadn't thought of doing this before:
1 - You shall have no other gods before Me. - Trump thinks he is God because nobody can be better than Trump, not even God
2 - You shall make no idols. - Trump is his own idol or maybe it is money
3 - You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - Trump does often, apparently
4 - Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Trump tweets on Sundays as well as many insult everybody under the sun
5 - Honor your father and your mother. - I actually think Trump honors his mother
6 - You shall not murder. - He says he could get away with it and Evangelicals will still vote for him; but I give him the benefit of the doubt that he hasn't ordered anybodies murder - yet.
7 - You shall not commit adultery. - BOY, Trump sure fails this one (as do so many other Evangelicals, especially their preachers)
8 - You shall not steal. - Trump does this all the time, just ask anybody who works for him who he has stiffed
9 - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Trump has lied or told False statements over 12,000+ times and the Evangelicals seem to love him for it
10 - You shall not covet. - Trump covets everything you have that he doesn't.
I guess everybody agrees with the above, good.
Reading the above, I thought you might enjoy this:
Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian - Published on Apr 24, 2019
Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian™, meets with Jerry Falwell, Jr., Franklin Graham, and Mike Huckabee to let Jesus down easy: Evangelicals are breaking up with Him
Lets add some perspective. President Donald Trump was referring to the fact that he is the first president who has confronted China and their unfair trade practices. No other president stood up to China when it comes to trade. He was not making a biblical reference. Geeeze.
"Yes, President Trump, when asked about his ongoing trade war with China, deemed himself "the chosen one" when talking with reporters outside the White House on Wednesday. As Trump put it, when it comes to dealing with China's trade practices, "somebody had to do it." He then added "I am the chosen one" as he looked up to the sky."
I do give liberals a chance to demonstrate they comprehend facts, truth and reality. I am always disappointed.
Not a biblical reference, yet he looks up to the sky akin to looking up to God. He is a Christian, is he not?
Guess what? Looking up means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Being a Christian is not part of this. He is the first US president taking on the trade imbalance with China. That is it. Trying to make something out of nothing shows a total inability to be objective.
I expected you to say something like this and I have already got a reply for you. But these are some more facts and we know you don't respond to facts, so I do not expect a reply, so no pressure.
Well, this is from August 21st, 2019 and you say that him saying that he is the chosen one has no biblical reference?
I have to ask you even though I know the answer: Are you DUMB or do you just defend him because he is anti-left? My hope is that it's the latter, else the human species does have some really bad outliers from the average IQ without the person having any known mental disabilities.
Are you ignorant or just have a total lack of understanding of the English language? I would say you need to learn how Americans speak English. Your lack of ability to comprehend what it written is painfully obvious. Maybe you should stick with forums focused on the issues concerning YOUR country.
Aha! There it is. You've been jacked so you go to the usual rhetoric, YOUR country. I am sure there are going to be other Americans who speak better English than you (me included) who would come here and tell you the same thing.
Don't worry, I am all over China and India on Reddit, you can join in. You seem to love bashing China, don't you?
Thanks for answering my question though, the human species does have some awfully smooth brains.
As truthful an answer as you can give...
That's his second go to reply when he has nothing to say to me.
First: Go to a forum that talks about YOUR country (note the capitals)
Second: Have a good day Brandon (At least use a comma before the name)
You will see a few of these on the other thread from 3 weeks ago, such as here: https://bit.ly/2NqCJYC and https://bit.ly/2Zlbd51 they were fairly easy to find with a simple Google search with the stuff in quotes lol. It's going to be hard to find the instances of YOUR country, so I'm not going to bother linking out to those .
Lobo, you are welcome and your input brings a different perspective of the issues being discussed.
Only conservatives are afraid of the free dissemination of information and knowledge. You stay right where you are!!
Nope, I was always here. A few weeks ago I had some long chats on this thread: https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/224 … y-dont-the
Got bored of seeing the same dumb responses from the same bunch of people and focused more free time on Reddit.
Why would you care what someone from another country thinks about the politics in our country? I would never even consider going to a political forum for Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany or even the Ukraine, voicing my opinion on THEIR country's politics and call people who disagree with me stupid and ignorant. Why should an American citizen accept such things? If you aren't an American citizen, why would we care what they think of our politics? They shouldn't care what we think of THEIR politics. It is their politics and their issues and not ours. So, unless you are a citizen, I don't know why you can't focus on the politics in YOUR country. I suspect an empty life or boring politics, but I may be wrong.
LOL, Mike I think you are wrong. I think it is because our politics stink, and they can smell it all the way in their country. Perhaps we could offer them a little air freshener.
Other than what MizBejabbers already said, we aren't living in the 16th century where the politics of one country does not affect the rest of the world and everyone with a large surface area on their brain knows this, no surprise that you do not.
Another reason I chose to partake in this discussion is that your President, whom idiots and dumb people such as yourself with flat brain syndrome worship like a God chose to say that he is the chosen one, the God of the world whose second coming people of a certain faith expect. I have direct say in this instead of the indirect path of world politics because I was born into that said faith.
Also, someone should tell your God (Trump) that to the Israelies the messiah is yet to come, Jesus was not their messiah so when the Israeli dude or whoever he was said "They (Israelis) love him like he is the second coming of God" he was lying to Trump. I'm surprised Trump didn't realize this though, unlike you he's not got flat brain syndrome. If he did he'd not be able to play you like a fiddle.
P.S: Yes, please stay out of other countries politics, you need to figure out how your own country works first. You've got your tasks laid out for you.
Can you ever, just once, have some civility when someone disagrees with you?
Never with that guy because it's not a disagreement of opinion, whenever he sees facts and he knows he is wrong he says go to a forum for YOUR country. Hubpages being a writing site, at least I am creative with my responses and don't just fall back on two statements, over and over again.
Disagreement is fine. But, you insult, personally. Maybe it's just a matter of cultural differences.
No, it's not. I am not religious, but I am a strong believer of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". When he insults me, I insult him, simple. I don't insult anyone else around here, I diagree strongly with you very often, but the only time I insulted you is when you insulted me by saying I have no right to speak for womens rights because I don't understand opression or something on those lines.
When I disagree I say that's dumb, I never call the person dumb. But with Mike it's different because he is dumb and this was my opinion of him ever since he said that caging people is fine. I can give you a link to a statement where he said it.
I insult people if I have no shred of respect for them because they are hypocrites, I would insult POTUS if he were here.
Talking about culture, I love German culture because unlike Indian culture where you be respectful to others especially older people no matter what, they are direct.
Yes, you do.
You inject yourself, take a side, and then begin insulting. Your past efforts speak for themselves.
It is interesting, that yourself, and some others, seem to think that by showing up and insulting other people... you have contributed something of value.
You do not. You merely make your position look weak, or yourself look bad, or both.
I'll give you an example of someone who makes valuable contributions to the discussions here... Arthur Russ.
He and I have had long and detailed debates over issues ranging from immigration/refugee crisis to global warming.
He is strong in his beliefs, but he does not resort to insulting others, he does his research and then just brings more and more information backing up his position.
He has actually moved my position on more than one matter to his POV (point of view) while making me more confident of others where I do continue to disagree... those discussions therefore had value, hopefully for the both of us.
Discussions I have had with you do not, they have no value as soon as you label, insult, or dismiss me (or anyone else) you have lost the debate.
Some people on here don't seem to get that, they think that when people ignore them, they have won the debate... truth is, people don't respect them enough to bother replying.
It's shameful for Mike to suggest lobobrandon leave the forum because of his nationality, and it's shameful that you are apparently defending it.
lobobrandon is welcome here, and if you or Mike don't like it, I think you both know what you can do.
And for the record, lobobrandon's command of English is a better than some people on this forum I could name, and he often makes a lot more sense than either of you.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that lobobrandon and others care what your opinion of them is, or that they are trying to convince you of something. You flatter yourself. Perhaps some people engage with yours and Mike's nonsensical "arguments" for the purpose of highlighting how ridiculous and without merit some of them are.
And they do that because experience tells them they can't have a good-faith discussion with you. They'll only get right-wing talking points and insults. Let's face it Ken, the quickest way to scare you or Mike away is to ask for evidence of something that isn't from a right-wing blog. When you fail to produce any, and someone tells you how ridiculous that is, apparently you consider that an insult. It's not, it's an attempt to establish the one thing people must have in common for a basic level of dialog: reason. Some people can disagree but still be reasonable. Some people can't.
So perhaps the "truth" Ken is that this is why some people who disagree with you can show little or no respect for your views, but can engage meaningfully with others they disagree with. It depends on how much unreasonable behavior they can tolerate. "Arthur Russ" clearly has a high threshold, but neither you nor Mike shouldn't expect that level of tolerance for unreasonable arguments from everyone. You won't get it.
Your ability to inject things that are not said, or insinuate intent or meaning that is not there, is quite impressive.
Your disdain comes out in your efforts to chastise others, be it me, Mike, or who-ever crosses your beliefs.
I do not typically reply to those looking to preach and insult... that is why I rarely reply to you. It is not worth the effort. You are not asking in good faith, you are looking for something to criticize or an excuse to demean.
Your comment here being a good example. And yes, now I will refrain from replying to you further.
"Your ability to inject things that are not said, or insinuate intent or meaning that is not there, is quite impressive."
It's called thinking Ken. It's a useful habit. You should try it. Sadly your inability to see beyond the literal meaning of words on a page is singularly unimpressive.
"Your disdain comes out in your efforts to chastise others, be it me, Mike, or who-ever crosses your beliefs."
Nope, in Mike's case it comes from seeing him arrogantly trying to discourage lobobrandon from posting just because he doesn't like the fact he's from another country, and in your case it comes from your hypocritical stance of criticizing lobobrandon for his response to Mike when he made reference to his nationality, which was a cheap shot.
"I do not typically reply to those looking to preach and insult... that is why I rarely reply to you. It is not worth the effort. You are not asking in good faith, you are looking for something to criticize or an excuse to demean."
You have replied to me on several occasions. You tend to stop when I ask for a reliable source to prove the right-wing conspiracies you tend to peddle though. You're free to do that of course. Just as I am free to ask for such evidence, and note the absence of it. And though I can be blunt, I don't often demean people Ken. I most often criticize their arguments. Unless I am insulted of course, in which case I do tend to return the favor. Even then, I tend to dial it back, out of respect for the HubPages forum rules.
"And yes, now I will refrain from replying to you further."
Good for you. I won't be refraining from replying to you when you post unfounded conspiracy theories, then letting the lack of evidence speak for itself, or when I think you're being a hypocrite. It's a service you will continue to get from me, completely free, because I'm generous like that.
Good talk Ken.
Hey. You've personally insulted me every time we've disagreed. So, unless you let someone else use your account on many occasions, I still think cultural differences are in play. Maybe the term 'personal insult' is defined differently.
If you attack the person and not the idea, that is personally insulting. Would you agree?
"Hey. You've personally insulted me every time we've disagreed. So, unless you let someone else use your account on many occasions, I still think cultural differences are in play. Maybe the term 'personal insult' is defined differently."
So let me get this straight. When people the same nationality as you have "insulted" you on this forum in the past, it must have been for various different reasons, but when lobobrandon does it, it's must because of "cultural differences"? Is that what you're saying?
Socrates never said that. Oh, the irony of that meme.
Just curious, Ken. Does that mean Trump is a loser in all his verbal battles? Why do so many admire Trump for his verbal sparring while doing the very same thing on these boards is not admired?
You are right.
"Despite its popularity on social media, no one has ever found a single direct link to any material attributed to Socrates matching the quote."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/socra … der-loser/
But there is no proof he DIDN'T say it.
Tell me how many forums you go on from foreign countries, lecture THEM on their country's politics and then call those who don't agree with you stupid or ignorant? Please tell me the forum as I'll go and read what you written and see how you've handled yourself discussing the politics of another country with its citizens. I have never done this so please tell me about YOUR experiences.
As I have lived in many countries, I can answer that.
It is actually the norm to discuss what is going on in other countries. Right now, a whole lot of countries are deciding not to trade with Brazil until they stop burning the Amazon.
In other places, the Danes are considering offering to buy Puerto Rico (joke).
People from other countries often discuss what is happening elsewhere. However, it's also true that people from those countries also travel more, and they have been exposed to many systems of government.
There's no excuse. lobobrandon's nationality is irrelevant to what was being discussed.
lobobrandon has offered his reasons for commenting, which is generous because he doesn't need to justify his presence to anyone. He has as much right to comment here as you and I, or anyone else. If you don't like that, then no one is forcing you to be here.
And your comment about his command of English stinks. I and others in this thread all interpreted Trump's comments the same way. lobobrandon says the same thing, and it's because he needs to "learn how Americans speak English"? That's a cheap, nasty shot and you know it.
You're free to make such comments if you choose, but you're not free from the consequences. If you don't want your comments to be called ignorant, then don't bring someone's nationality and language into the discussion when it's irrelevant. Doing so, then whining about the outcome, will not generate any sympathy from me.
So I'm supposed to prove somebody didn't say something. How does that work? I'm perplexed by that defense. So we can say somebody said anything we want and then ask people to prove they didn't say it? What kind of chaos would that create? Is that really the world we live in now? That's as anti-intellectual as it gets.
Do you not see the irony in using that meme as a response, accusing those that slander as being losers? It would hysterical if it wasn't so sad.
No, it's hysterical. I didn't post it to be serious. I do admit you are right in that it isn't attributed to Socrates and provided a link proving you were right.
I question your English reading comprehension. So, is it fair to say you have NOT gone on to the forums of other countries, voiced YOUR opinion about THEIR politics and called the citizens of THAT country stupid and ignorant when they disagree with you? A simple yes or now would have sufficed, but by not answering I'm going to have to assume you have not. Again, and read this carefully, I would NEVER go onto a forum of another country, voice my opinion about their politics and say insulting things to the people of that country who disagree with me. Could you inability to read what I've written be an example of how you misinterpret what has been written about President Donald Trump? Just wondering.
I appreciate how you have international experiences such as myself. I have gone on forums of other countries and discussed things. Mostly where is the best place to eat, hike, camp, etc. I know you are from South Africa. I don't care about the politics there, it has so much natural beauty. Life there seems very different from that in the United States.
I am a very proud citizen of the United States. I think our country is the best on the planet. So, we will always disagree on things. I think everyone should feel this way about their country.
When on forums in foreign countries I do not discuss politics. I don't even respond if they say something negative about the United States. Canada, and the UK have some people with rather strong negative opinions about the United States. So be it. I don't care. I will respect their right to say what they want about their country, our country etc. on their forum. I may ask a question, but that is the extent.
I just expect the same level of respect when others come here.
And I question your ability to grasp reality, but that's nothing to do with nationality or language. It's because your comments tend to be idiotic. In contrast, you suggested lobobrandon's views about Trump are because he needs to "learn how Americans speak English", even though others in the thread share the same view. So you used nationality and language to try to invalidate lobobrandon's views. Like I said, that stinks.
And I don't care what you would do. When you own this site, then you can decide what lobobrandon can and can't comment on. Until then, suck it up buttercup. If not, then go ask the HubPages team if lobobrandon should be discouraged from posting on this thread because of his nationality. Then let us all know the answer.
"And I question your ability to grasp reality, but that's nothing to do with nationality or language. It's because your comments tend to be idiotic."
Back at you.
"then go ask the HubPages team if lobobrandon should be discouraged from posting on this thread because of his nationality."
I would never do such a thing. He is like you in that there is much you can learn from my posts and the views I provide on things. I do provide people such as you and him valuable lessons if you would only make the effort to discuss them on an intelligent basis.
Unbridled victimhood and senseless emotion doesn't help you learn and grow.
I hope some day you can at least meet me half way. I am here to help you out of your significant state of confusion.
"Unbridled victimhood and senseless emotion doesn't help you learn and grow. " - you are speaking of #RacistTrump aren't you?
Bluster and false bravado won't help you. You used lobobrandon's nationality to invalidate his comments, and tried to discourage him from posting because he is from another country. Doing that was wrong and you owe him an apology.
"I would never do such a thing..."
Oh that's the reason you would never ask HubPages about excluding people from threads based on nationality. It's not because doing so would make you look like a far-right loony who wants an electronic wall to exclude foreigners or anything? Okay, got it.
"Unbridled victimhood...doesn't help you learn and grow"
...says the person who wants a "straight pride" parade because he feels white, male heterosexuals are being oppressed by all the mean, lefty, liberals. Too funny.
Out of interest, in addition to your dislike of foreigners commenting in the forum, do you feel our demographic is being deliberately replaced? Do you have increased levels of anger? Are you frequenting certain right-wing websites? If so be careful, it's easy to become radicalized. I'd hate to see you fall into the clutches of white supremacists and become like one of the "fine people" at Charlottesville.
Don, I try to take you serious, but you make it difficult. It is obvious to me you have a serious problem comprehending the English language. I can't help you with that problem, you'll have do deal with that challenge on your own. I also question if you are able to comprehend the concept of "context." I also believe you have a very active imagination. These are the things that make it difficult to take you serious when you respond to anything.
"You used lobobrandon's nationality to invalidate his comments, and tried to discourage him from posting because he is from another country."
Again deal with what is said and not what you think is said. There is that English comprehension problem of yours being evident once again. IF you read what what written is was about calling Americans stupid and ignorant who express an view contrary to Lobrandon's. Others saw the same thing.
"I would never do such a thing..."
Oh that's the reason you would never ask HubPages about excluding people from threads based on nationality. It's not because doing so would make you look like a far-right loony who wants an electronic wall to exclude foreigners or anything? Okay, got it.
Here is your baseless view devoid of facts and more proof of an overactive imagination.
"Unbridled victimhood...doesn't help you learn and grow"
...says the person who wants a "straight pride" parade because he feels white, male heterosexuals are being oppressed by all the mean, lefty, liberals. Too funny.
It's obvious you have much learning and growing to do. With some honest work with your challenges you may become someone interesting to converse with on topic. Until that happens I'm going to have to feel bad for you and your inability to deal with reality. I wish you well and hope the best for you.
"IF you read what what written is was about calling Americans stupid and ignorant who express an view contrary to Lobrandon's."
On the first page, lobobrandon criticized you, not "Americans". In response you falsely implied his language skills invalidated his views, and suggested he self-censor himself because of his nationality:
"Are you ignorant or just have a total lack of understanding of the English language? I would say you need to learn how Americans speak English . . . Maybe you should stick with forums focused on the issues concerning YOUR country."
Apparently you don't think lobobrandon should be commenting on US politics, but I'm almost certain that if he was lavishing praise on the current government, you'd have no problem with him commenting. I'm also certain that wanting to discriminate against people on public forums, based on nationality, is a sign that you can't support your views through reasoned argument. Combined with having to cite "the daily caller" as a source, that's something you should be concerned about.
'We wouldn't care if:
1. America didn't constantly poke her nose into the politics of other countries. She constantly sends in her CIA and other forces to change political systems.
2. She constantly goes to war in order to find oil, etc. and she destablilizes the world.
3. She manipulates the reserve currency so that she buys cheap and sells expensive, thereby making her rich. Fortunately that is now changing and within a few years, America will no longer be dominant currency wise.
4. She has the most powerful military in the world (China is fast catching up, though), and can destroy our planet as a result. She has an insane president which doesn't help. So the safety of the rest of the world is in dire straits as a result of America.
5. America has been voted as the country most likely to start WWIII by the rest of the world.
6. Despite climate change being the result of over production and over-consumerism, the current American president has done everything in his power to ensure that business continues to harm the environment. So America plays havoc with the safety of the rest of the world.
7. America has become horror of the world - with civil rights disappearing and people being locked in cages, tortured, etc. First world standards are not met. There is no adequate public transport. People go bankrupt for lack of healthcare, etc. And, yet, like every other fascist dictator in the world, the president continues to boast that it is the best country int he world. Deutschland uber alles. Make America great again.
8. People from other countries are highly educated (in comparison to America). This means that they know about the inner politics not only of their own country - but of countries all over the world.
9. Americans read only their own news sources, so they have no idea what is going on elsewhere or how America is really perceived. People in other countries keep an open mind. They read South China Morning Post, Russia Today, Der Spiegel, France 24, The African Report, etc. People in other countries are informed about global events. Americans arent. They live in a fishbowl. The rest of us live in an ocean.
10. Fortunately there are reasonably well informed Americans. I know that because I have many of them as friends. They're progressives...
I could say many sarcastic things about your response. I don't think it would change anything. I will say I have nothing good to say about progressives. I equate their beliefs to those of communist dictators.
Oh, I'm sure you do. Tough. it's not a knowledgeable position.
I disagree with you. I believe you are very wrong on many levels. Karl Marx thought himself a progressive.
I hope we can agree that should there not have been a Supreme Court as well as a Senate and Congress T. Roosevelt would have had the United States looking like Soviet Russia.
British people, much of Africa, New Zealand people, Canadian people, etc. all speak the Queen's English. American English is a derivative of the Queen's English.
Therefore people who live in other countries are quite capable of understanding American English.
Granted the American president can neither speak nor write English well, but then he can't do anything well.
The onus is on the speaker/writer to write/speak in such a way that the listener/reader understands.
The 'trade imbalance' with China is a result of China playing a better game than the USA. The USA held the power for years, but China saw loopholes and took advantage of them.
Playing a game well does not mean that a person is cheating.
America no longer knows how to play the trade game.
Let me give her some clues.
1. Manufacture a good product cheaply.
2. Keep your production in your own country otherwise the secret of how you do it will get out. There's a thing called reverse engineering.
3. Educate your workers/people to a high standard and provide free education.
4. Ensure that your currency isn't expensive. If your currency is expensive, it means your products are expensive.
5. Make sure that you have a well run post office and people from other countries don't have to pay exorbitant prices to ferry the goods from the USA to their countries. At the moment, it's virtually impossible to send any parcel to South Africa without paying a few hundred dollars (that's for something like a fountain pen).
Lots more. The point is America is losing the game because they have depended on their status and military might for too long. The rest of hte world has moved on. They have found other people who are nicer and who play the game better.
Oh lord. Really? Or, could other factors be contributing? Such as forced labor?
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/18/67789504 … -u-s-brand
Or, maybe, unfair currency manipulation plays a part?
https://www.investopedia.com/trading/ch … tion-yuan/
Maybe it's the lack of government protection for workers?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business … story.html
Or, I don't know, maybe no regulations to make people and companies pay compensation when money is all that matters? And the average citizen has little recourse to sue?
The options China appears to have extent far past those available in the West.
Thank you for proving my point. That's exactly why American business sent all the stuff that Americans buy to China to be produced - because they didn't want to pay American workers sufficient money to live. It was cheaper to get the stuff manufactured in China.
So what's your point?
Oh. Ok. So, your point is that however immoral and underhanded a government allows its manufacturing processes to be, however much a government can manipulate its currency (out of accordance with fair international practices) and human suffering, in the pursuit of market dominance is ok, as long as it's cheaper.
Well that is certainly what China and America agree to, don't you think? After all, if American business men had any morals, they wouldn't have sent their production to China, would they?
I've never defended corporations as being moral. However, I think it is long past the time for China to drop tariffs on American products, to allow American companies the same access to their consumers that we allow Chinese companies.
China created a sweet deal for itself by its unfair trade practices. Our government acquiesced. Businesses took advantage of these unfair trade practices which were allowed by the US.
I'm not saying anyone isn't to blame. What I was saying was your comment conveniently excluded facts.
You are looking at it, based on what you think is fair.
China only considers what it wants, and how to get there.
China will never 'be fair'.
China will never allow foreign control within its borders.
China will never allow the fleecing of its wealth to offshore corporations and foreign nations the way America has.
China will take every advantage America and the West allows, and use it to its full advantage, and China will treat America and the EU and the rest of the world, like the lesser vassal nations they will soon become.
There is a flaw here in your perspective.
It is not "American" business men... it is International Businesses, which have no loyalty to any nation, and move their HQs to wherever it is most advantageous to do so, this is the cause of the 'Rise of China' and the "Fall of Western Civilization" which we are currently living thru.
The other part is China itself, its history, its lost 100 years due to Western interference and opium epidemics. How it pictures itself in the world and its determination to dominate and control the future. And how it is determined to never let the 'West' bring it to its knees again.
China and its populace are unified in a way, under one ruling/dictatorial government, that the West could never aspire to at this stage, this gives them immense control over what direction the nation takes, and unlike in America and the UK, they are not handicapped by elections and shifts in voter sentiment.
"The other part is China itself, its history, its lost 100 years due to Western interference and opium epidemics. How it pictures itself in the world and its determination to dominate and control the future. And how it is determined to never let the 'West' bring it to its knees again."
Wasn't that the goal of the West for some time? is it really a surprise when China attempts to do the same?
Absolutely, if I were part of the ruling elite of China, I would want to pursue a similar course.
I am not condemning them for it, I am pointing out that they have indeed surpassed us on all levels save the military... and this is also very wise, ensure they have global dominance, economic superiority, and only then build up a military force that is superior, if you intend on doing so.
The Chinese have found away around the problem of military might however, and that is not just through industrial and economical superiority, it is through technological superiority.
China will have made the American military, including its nuclear arsenal, obsolete by 2025, if not sooner. China will have Satellite, AI, and Cyberwarfare capabilities so far beyond what America has, it will be America attempting to steal their secrets, and playing catch-up.
I suspect we may not accept our demotion on the world stage well, but if America were to want to prevent a lesser status economically and militarily, it would have to act right now to stop it, and we won't.
The change will be swift, and harsh, when the Dollar is dropped as the International Reserve, which I suspect will occur by 2025, so long as Trump is removed in 2020. If Trump is re-elected, that may be pushed back a few years as the Trade War with China slows its growth... this Trade War is only starting to have a significant impact, despite the rhetoric, most tariffs have only begun recently.
The trade imbalance isn't even that, Tess. It is simply that America is richer and wants more products sold from China than the other way around. This is a simple concept that Trump and his economic advisors are incapable of understanding - SAD.
Did China manipulate currency? Yes they did once but stopped after the world started fighting back.
Does China steal our patents and other intellectual property? Yes they do, but a trade war is an ineffective way of stopping that.
Is China an overall bad actor? Yes they are, but a trade war only makes them worse.
Stop it! Stop putting things in proper context!
He stated "the Chosen one" it doesn't matter what the reference or reason, point is he said it.
Who said that it's proper context? See the tweets he sent out on the 21st of August: https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/344 … ost4091550
Talk about context, the left can’t criticize any of Trump’s successful policies so all they can do is harp on anything he says, even lying about what he says like Biden did on his Charlottesville comments!
All this occurs while they totally ignore the context of obamagate, obama’s traitorous efforts to keep Trump from being elected, being the chosen one, chosen by the people.
https://omny.fm/shows/america-first-wit … -21-hour-1
https://omny.fm/shows/america-first-wit … -21-hour-2
https://omny.fm/shows/america-first-wit … -21-hour-3
If you can listen to these three hours and still think the Democrat party represents anything good there is no hope for you and if you won’t even listen to them you prove you are not capable of honest discourse or just don’t care that the Democrat party attempted a traitorous Coup.
You are right, the Left (or anybody else for that matter) can't criticize any of Trump's successful policies. Why? Because he has had no successful policies to criticize. Simple.
Even the one piece of major legislation he managed to pass, the GOP Tax Scam, failed to achieve
1 - its goal of higher growth to pay for the enormous loss of revenue it generated.
2 - increase wages and bonuses
3 - increase jobs
4 - substantial lower middle class taxes
The only things it did achieve was make the rich richer and rich corporations richer.
Do you read much about economics?
"The U.S. unemployment rate, for instance, is currently hovering near a 50-year low, after dropping by an entire percentage point since the president’s inauguration. More importantly, the ongoing economic resurgence is making the American Dream more accessible than ever before.
"The U.S. economy has already added more than 6 million new jobs in just 2 ½ years, and employee compensation and savings are skyrocketing -- clear indications that working Americans are experiencing the benefits of this booming economy."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic … 40956.html
China is not flourishing because of únfair trade' practices.
China took advantage of the fact that America holds the reserve currency. America used the Reserve currency in order to buy cheap and sell expensive, and it therefore made a lot of money. China used that fact to her advantage - that she could sell cheap!
China wanted to be a world power. She realized that she couldn't to it by investing in arms because it was too expensive. So she decided to invest in trade. She built the new 'silk road,'so that her goods could be transported across the world. In addition, the communist party does the research as to which markets needs goods, and then people apply to run that business. So Chinese business is always assured of a good market.
Just because China is playing the game well does not mean she is cheating.
What has happened to America is the same thing that has happened to many a king or person of high status. They were so accustomed to power that they forgot how to play the game...
Thank you for providing the full statement. Certainly clarifies the sentiment.
This thread is freakin' hilarious. I have to laugh or I will cry.
Our president's malignant narcissistic personality disorder is being fueled by religious nut jobs and defended as perfectly normal by members of his 40%.
It's so damned creepy.
At some point, you have to stop blaming Trump and start blaming his followers because Trump's dog whistles work on them. He just knows specifically what buttons to push, so perhaps he deserves some credit for getting certain types of people to rise up.
Oh, I do blame his followers, believe me. But I blame two other things more:
1 - Russia
2 - Democrats, especially Latinos, who didn't vote in 2016 thinking Clinton wasn't going to lose. What a waste of the biggest gift in their lives - the chance to control their own destinies and they blew it big time.
So what. America bought it. China does not want Americans to sell products to her. They make enough for themselves. There is no moral imperative that China should reciprocate.
No, my comment did not exclude the facts. You're just presenting excuses for a bad agreement made by the American government.
As I said, China was savvy enough to take advantage of it. And American business, in its greed to make even more money, transferred much of American production to China.
China then learnt how to make the products themselves (reverse engineering) and no longer needs American know-how.
The bottom line is that America had no foresight. And that's the problem with Republicans. They have no foresight.
Here's the bottom line. China does not need America as a market. And China is not going to succumb to American pressure. That is what Donald Trump does not understand.
China has built a 'silk road' right across Europe and is busy investing in Africa. America not needed.
So I have to ask you. What sort of pressure do you think that Trump can use to force China to have American goods in her market place?
America, because of hte strength of the dollar, will never be able to produce and sell as cheaply as the Chinese can.
Ok. Your words 'bad agreement by U.S.'
We are changing the agreement. Don't complain.
Pointing out that America hasn't got sufficient power to force China to change the agreement.
Trump, like many people who have had too much power and money without sufficient opposition, doesn't actually realize he can't bully China into a new agreement.
Certainly, he is trying.
Good luck with that.
So, China's behavior has not been bullying but Trump's attempt to level the playing field is?
That makes absolutely no sense.
Of everything Trump has done, said... his position on China is by far the most admirable.
All other Presidents, on both sides, have ignored that particular problem, mostly because American love their cheap goods.
Actually, that is not true, is it Cranky. Past American presidents and other world leaders finally got China to stop manipulating currency.
Could you provide evidence that proves your statement?
Is your google finger broken?
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/worl … -bill.html
https://www.vox.com/2019/8/6/20756215/t … -trade-war
You point to VOX and the NYT? Sorry, I would need a reputable source.
It's not a simple YES or NO answer. IT is complicated.
"Legally speaking, the issue of whether China meets the standard for manipulation set out in U.S. law is complex. The 2015 Trade Enforcement Act sets out three criteria a country must meet to be tagged a manipulator: a bilateral surplus with the United States, an overall current account surplus, and one-sided intervention in the foreign-exchange market to suppress the value of its currency. The Treasury Department’s most recent report [PDF] concluded that China only met the bilateral surplus criterion."
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/china-mani … s-currency
Everyone using my post to respond to each other.
Go into chronological view, already.
I finally saw the clip where Trump said that.
My advice to everyone complaining (that includes my earlier statement) is chill. There was nothing creepy, once I saw it in context. He didn't mean jack when he said it.
I agree. I think he was trying to say, it fell in my lap because none of the previous Presidents would take China on. And it is clear he is brae enough to try to solve this long time growing problem head-on.
It's clear that he is decimating the agricultural industry by starting a trade war before expanding into other markets. Having to hand out $29 billion in socialist bailouts at taxpayer expense because he didn't really think the plan through seems just fine to his supporters. Oh, and the tariffs are like a tax increase for the middle class as the price of goods and services increase. So the rich get the most tax breaks from his tax cut, the middle class bears the brunt of the damage from his trade war.
That's not brave, that's just stupid.
I was commenting on the subject of the post " I am the chosen one". I am in complete agreement with Trump's methods in regards to the rade war. I am very pleased someone is finally facing the task. I think for many years we have been taken advantage of and look like fools. We have only added to making China a very large powerful country.
So you are in complete agreement with bankrupting our farmers and driving America into a recession?
Yes, as I said I am very pleased to see that finally, we have a president that is willing to tackle this growing problem. It certainly will not go away on its own. The farmers are being subsidized, and it is true they are feeling the brunt of the trade war. Sacrifice is necessary to put America in a better trading position for our future. I don't agree we should cower and keep our heads buried in the sand. Hopefully, the farmers will be rewarded for their sacrifice and patience. In regards to the recession, that is a wait and see a situation.
Well you keep believing that (I assume you aren't one of the ones needlessly sacrificing). The good news is those same farmers will either not vote in 2020 or vote for somebody who won't destroy their livelihood and put them on welfare (what you call subsidies).
I guess that remains to be seen. I can't read into what farmers are feeling in regards to fair trade. It well appears you have an inside scoop on what the farmers of America feel, and how they will vote. And you assume too much, I invest, so I could well be hurt with the trade wars, and I am willing to bit the bullet for better trade. As I said this problem has been around too long, needs to be addressed.
I don't need any special insight. All I need to do is listen to what they are saying and read their quotes along with apply a modicum of common sense to understand what they are thinking.
I would be willing to bite the bullet as well if Trump had any clue as to what he was doing - but he doesn't. NEVER in the history of the United States has America ever won a trade war, regardless of who initiates it.
When I go into a trade war, I always want to be led by a guy with a history of bankrupting multiple companies said no one with common sense ever.
There are two choices, the one I laid out in an earlier reply, where essentially China continues doing what it wants... Resulting in America being greatly diminished.
Or the current course, a trade war with real teeth.
You choose to ignore 2025,2035,2049. All your arguments come across as little more than whining about Trump.
China has said openly what it plans on doing. Make America a vassel state, one of many.
It seems many in D.C. want to ignore this, or convince others its not possible. Much as you have in this discussion.
A trade war has no teeth, never has and never will. It is just a death sentence to whoever wages it. Review your history.
China has never said (or implied) it wants to make America a vassal state; only the Soviet Union said such things and look what happened to them, without a destructive trade war.
On another subject, I just listened to Trump say multiple times that Nobody has ever heard of a Cat 5 hurricane, including him. I am guessing that Trump supporters will now say they haven't either because he said so.
Funny thing is, there have been four or five Cat 5 hurricanes on his watch - I guess he was too busy playing golf to notice.
He's actually spoken about them before: https://bit.ly/2lzA82i
Truly astounding, really proof that TDS really exists, the guy is in your head.
Trying to have a discussion about China and you divert to Trump comments on hurricanes.
I can't agree with your opinion but will respect your right to it. Bottom line, in my opinion, the problem need solving. China has taken advantage of America for a very long time with unfair trade practices. Our poor trade policies have provided China the means to become a very powerful country, not only economically but militarily.
Will Trump win the trade war with China remains an unknown. However, I am pulling for a win... Unlike some that just are hell-bent on seeing Trump lose for an, "I told ya so moment". I find it funny that when Trump has an accomplishment, some are ready to move on, and never except or acknowledge a job well done. At any rate, I give Trump credit for tackling this task in an election year. Brave, and very non-political. e just does not play the "game".
https://ceoworld.biz/2018/11/23/the-wor … s-in-2018/
We are not "hell-bent on seeing Trump lose for an, "I told ya so moment"." Instead we are "hell-bent on seeing Trump lose" to save America moment. I could care less about telling you you were wrong.
Also, he didn't tackle this in an election year, he started it two years ago not too long after taking office.
I think 62% of America is hell-bent on getting a President who is mentally stable.
That would be true.
Even the "Mooch" is commenting that Trump is losing it, first with never having heard of a Cat 5 hurricane hitting land and then that Alabama needs to be prepared for a hit from Dorian (which wouldn't get closer than 250 miles) and then calling the weather guy who corrected him names.
Well that rules out Biden and most of the 20 something others running.
This statement truly illustrates what we mean when we say brainwashed. Some on the right, like you Ken, cannot understand the difference between a true narcissist like the current elected official, and others challenging him with differing policy positions.
The fact that you see those differing positions as an example of a mental issue, even though the country has prospered (unemployment numbers drop under Democratic leadership, deficits drop, stock market thrives, environmental policies expanded, wealth inequality addressed) shows how much you allow your fear of those who disagree with you dictate your outlook on life.
For someone who makes fairly decent arguments, that comment really did display how far out there you actually are.
My, you guys are good for a laugh.
Go ahead and defend the likes of Biden, Booker, ORourke, Williamson, Blasio, Gilibrand, etc. all are either nut jobs or corrupt establishment hacks or both.
Two options worth considering, Warren and Gabbard. The rest would be complete disasters, excuse me, are complete disasters. Its a testament to our times that these people are voted into any position of power where they can run things.
I guess I stand corrected, you haven't been completely brainwashed. I agree that Warren would be more than capable. Trump is too dishonest for most of America, is alienating too many of our allies, and using his government position for profit as evidenced by Pence staying at one of his hotels on his latest oversees trip even though it was not even in the same area as his meetings.
America does not need saving from Trump.
Trump's election proves America still functions as intended.
Many don't like that fact, they seem to want one party rule, no interference by the common masses to the ruling elites...
Technology will make that possible soon enough it seems, censorship, deplatforming individuals, we have seen how Google, Facebook, Twitter have begun to work in unison to silence people.
No need to worry, the chances of another outsider like Trump becoming President are being eliminated as we speak.
All Trump's election proves is that Russian propaganda, which he and his campaign encouraged, worked.
You do realize, don't you, that Trump is the demagogue our founders worked so hard in trying to prevent from getting elected. Try reading the Federalist Papers (the real ones, not the conservative group who stole their name) or Madison's notes on the Constitutional Convention and you will see clearly what I am talking about. Each and every one of them would have voted against Trump.
Still pushing that tripe are you?
Well you can fool some of the people all of the time.
But don't waste such drivel in a reply to me in the future please, it just comes across as so intellectually weak and ignorant. Makes me not want to bother discussing anything with you at all.
Trump is a pathetic, imbecilic, coward and a bully. He's a terrible president in most ways - a man who is destroying respect for the office daily.
However, I'm going to disagree with you strongly on the approach you and other liberals are taking. If we miss the message about why he was elected, things are going to get worse, not better.
People are sick and tired of politicians working for corporations and not for the common people. They're sick and tired of politicians being for sale. They're sick and tired of business as usual.
If Democrats do not heed that message and simply elect another Washington insider, we'll get worse than Trump soon enough.
+1 Personally I believe that's why the majority of Trump voters chose that route. They're sick and tired of business as usual, where politicians put themselves and their big donors ahead of the people or the country.
We ignore that message at our peril, for there are far worse than Trump out there.
Impressive insight into the situation, I do applaud it.
It is deserving of an insightful reply... so here goes.
The 'Washington Insiders' see things from a more detached, global, and non-empathetic position... they for the most part really do think they are better than the unwashed masses. They are smarter, better educated, in the know, and live a protected life free from the consequences of the laws they pass and the regulations they create.
They can be on either side of the aisle, but currently there is more of this present in the Democratic Party than the Republican, and this has been the case since the Tea Party movement which flushed out dozens of 'old school' politicians... the Republican Party has become the working-class or middle-class party, Conservative, Americans first, etc.
But the "ruling elites" those in the Halls of D.C. from the Pentagon to Congress, expect to be able to do what China is doing... rolling out a Social Credit System. This system will be slowly incorporated here in the U.S. as well, it will never be named, it will never be announced, it will just become the way things work... one small increment at a time.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/audreymurr … ng-system/
As we move forward with technology and as China's economy and world influence surpasses America's by an increasingly larger margin, we will forfeit our independent rights, our liberty and freedom.
Or so those in D.C. expect and believe will happen.
The problem with this concept I believe, is that while it works well in China where they have a 4,000 year old society that is used to centralized government and giving up their individual rights/freedoms to authority... America is a society that is built on individualism and independence, and I think it will be a lot tougher to corral Americans into accepting this no matter how underhanded the deployment of it is.
In China, they can round up a million dissenters and make them disappear and no one bats an eye about it, life goes on. In America, if they arrest even 100 thousand for 'dissension' or 'disobedience' it might not go so smoothly.
Its going to be interesting to watch. If Trump is defeated, things will return to 'normal' with China, the unnamed Social Credit System will be fast tracked here in America, and the downsizing of America will get back on track.
It always surprises me how Americans react in horror to the idea of China's social credit system when it seems we're already the majority of the way there ourselves. Our system, as you mentioned, is more subtle but barely less oppressive. When you add the big tech examples + credit scores + open records laws, you have a pretty effective social credit score that affects employment, ability to purchase homes or automobiles, get loans, etc. If you factor in all the metadata collected by the NSA and the surveillance abilities they have, we're only a casual "flip of the switch" away. I've been meaning to get to writing an in-depth article on this subject, so happy to see you bring it up. I would like to see Trump doing more to end mass surveillance and to protect government whistle-blowers who alert the public of the overreach in these areas. Unfortunately, indications so far seem to point in the opposite direction.
Well it is quite different.
The Chinese system punishes for not supporting the Communist Party, it punishes for too much video game play time, and many things we aren't currently punished for... punishments can range from restricting travel to what you can buy to eat.
If we were to follow their actual system, people would be punished for speaking out against a political party... we can see this trending towards the Democrat/Progressive in our PC culture but while accounts are frozen and people deplatformed for having 'conservative' views, they are as yet not restricted from riding trains and planes.
I won't argue that they are different but they are both disturbing. I left China less than a year ago after about a four year stretch and still have many friends living in China. I've never heard of anyone being affected by the social credit system personally yet. In contrast, I can think of countless people in the US who have had their lives affected by a credit score + open records law "social credit" system. You are right that punishment for speaking out against a political party (the political party) is much more severe in China. However, as you mention, people are being deplatformed and demonetized for speaking out about anything the corporate-government-media elite cabal finds as sensitive, be they conservative, progressive, or otherwise (anti-war seems to be the most common factor). As far as travel restrictions go, probation and parole do a pretty good job of restriction and a much higher proportion of our citizens are "justice involved" if not outright imprisoned. Both the current brands of US and Chinese oppression are far too authoritarian for my preferred tastes. On the US side, I'll be carefully watching the criminal justice reform plans of the candidates for 2020.
Good point that. As you recently left China you would have far more relevant information than I would.
In fact, much of the information I have on China's Social Credit system does come from American news outlets, which means it could be 90% lies as much of what they report regarding foreign activities is.
But as China is a one party system, ti does make sense that they would roll out such AI. They would want to identify and isolate dissenters.
I am not under the illusion that we can escape this, Elon Musk has talked about his Neuralink:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/27/1507 … ai-cyborgs
And he's not the only one, its most likely that by 2030 this will have been rolled out, and while at first it will be the rich who have it. It will eventually become part of humanity to be linked to a global network... the internet linked into your very mind.
Slowly but surely, we will become a world without borders, a people without individual identities that trump the collective, only global disaster will avoid this future for mankind at this point.
There's no doubt that China's single party is embracing AI and any other technology they can to sure up their control. The facial recognition systems they have working with security cameras are very advanced and they are closing on gait tracking systems to identify individuals by the way they walk.They are also doing away with paper train tickets and implementing facial recognition "tickets". I think the US mainstream media does like to stoke fear in China's tech systems though to make ours look less horrible in comparison. It doesn't seem much dissent is tolerated in either country in 2019. I have been on edge watching the Hong Kong protests.
Delving into a Neuralinked world is a bizarre and interesting concept that we will likely have to come to terms with more realistically in the near future. Perhaps it's our "destiny" to evolve along with AI in this manner rather than be replaced by it.
We'll almost certainly see that border-less world ruled over by a big tech-government much sooner. A friend working in China recently sent me a message stating, "I haven't seen anyone pay for anything in cash in over two weeks". That's a big step already in my book (they are using social media WeChat pay and not decentralized crypto). The biggest bank, ICBC, advertises the RMB as the "world currency".
Doesn't the Trump system do exactly the same thing? Aren't Conservatives (along with everybody else) ostracized when they criticize Trump? How many have been primaried by Trump - lots (one is running against him now).
If it weren't for Democrats, Trump would be dictator today. Consider, he controls the Senate, he almost controls the Supreme Court, he controls the once independent DOJ, he is attempting to take over the Fed. There is no longer a GOP/Republican party - those values have been tossed overboard with the usurpation by the Trump Party.
At least Trump isn't a religious zealot. Like we've said, it could be worse.
Just an observation, and an opinion. It seems like you spend a lot of time ponting out "I got ya moments" right here on Hubpages. It must take an enormous amount of Google time, as well as a ton of energy? Have a great day...
The idea that no other president would take on China is patently false. They chose not to destroy America in combating China's bad behavior.
The track US and Britain took years ago was to integrate China into the world economic system with the hope that it would start obeying the rule and that prosperity of the people would change the gov'ts behavior.
Has it worked? Yes and no. China has modified some of its behavior like stopping manipulating currency several years ago. Much of what China is being ostracized for is exactly the same things America did when we were at their stage of economic development.
These two articles may help explain things better and put the "sky-is-falling" rhetoric into perspective.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … na/589720/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … at/587536/
As to Trump being brave - no more than the next bully.
That should be concerning then, should it not?
China has said for itself what it plans: Made in China 2025, 2035, 2049
http://cimsec.org/the-chinese-dream-and … tegy/35066
China is rising without playing by the rules of the American order, thieving intellectual property from U.S. companies, forcing technology transfers, prejudicing state-owned companies and manipulating its currency to mercantile advantage.
The U.S. considers itself the greatest power in the world, and believes it should be running the world.
China is a 4000 year old society. The Mandarin word for China means center of the Universe.
From the Chinese viewpoint, China is the Sun, and every other nation should be a tributary that orbits around them.
For 100 years America has been #1 the global leader.
China considers the last 100 years the century of shame.
The two nations do not see things the same, both want to dominate and control the world.
That link I provided explains the Grand Strategy, and the very real threat it poses to America. The links that you provide, well in truth they are scary, that individual is who was advising McCain and is the Deputy Director-General of the International Institute for Strategic Studies... scary stuff, head-in-sand type of perspective.
However that article did talk about those who did see the wisdom: Steve Cortes, writing in RealClearPolitics, compared Trump on China to Ronald Reagan on the Soviet Union—ahead of his time in confronting its malevolence. Greg Autry wrote in Foreign Policy, “Trump’s China policy is a triumph.” The Wall Street Journal reported that CEOs have been coming around to support tariffs as “American business’s best shot at addressing those long-standing grievances.” Even The New York Times acknowledged that Trump has overturned years of failed multilateral efforts to deal with China.
China poses the greatest threat this nation has ever faced, in terms of losing its freedoms, sovereignty, economic individualism and place on the national stage. China the most capable and true threat this nation has faced since freeing itself from England.
Unfortunately Trump hasn't overturned anything. The most likely outcome of his policies is a major recession if things don't change. The mid-West is already going bankrupt at rates not seen since 2008.
No, "CEOs have been coming around to support tariffs" Consider more recent posts such as:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/ … es-1532348
https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-it-co … 1561627806
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ … ng-1470361
The multilateral efforts may not have been 100% effective, they didn't destroy America either.
Look, this debate alone is proof as to why America will fall to China.
Not just the two of us who have differing views on the matter, but that we can link to an endless amount of "experts" themselves who are all over the place on the matter. The "experts" are divided on what to do. Our politicians are divided, corrupt and lack the will to do what is required to keep America #1. And the American people are frayed and divided over an endless array of idiotic issues.
China's leadership is unified in seeing out its plan, the Chinese people are unified in a way only a 4,000 year old society can be, and they now have the edge in technology and industry. It is too late now for America to put the brakes on this transition to stop it, America does not have the vision, tenacity or unity to defeat this type of foe.
China will stick to its plan, and it will win. China will turn America into a vassal state, this is the fate of any nation that does not put their own interests first. And we have had leadership that has failed to do that for over 30 years... Trump's efforts just delay China's eventual success, and China realizes this as well. Come 2020... they will attack the Stock Market, they will fund the opposition, they will pay for propaganda, they will do what it takes to remove the obstacle to their plans.
So, Ken, I think if somebody was coming to this conversation from the outside, it would look an awful lot like you're demonstrating quite a bit of admiration for a totalitarian regime.
Furthermore, if one knew of your support for President Trump given his leanings toward, shall we say, a disregard for Democracy, one might extrapolate that you are suggesting that his sort of authoritarian governing style is precisely what the U.S. needs to "win" against China.
Do I have any of this right?
So here is my question: just what exactly are you suggesting we sacrifice to beat China at its own game? Do we need to become more like China? Is that what anyone wants?
Or are you just lamenting the seemingly sad state of our two-party political system?
I think you and I agree on China. Maybe we would quibble about a few of the details, but for the most part, we're in agreement.
One might suggest what we actually need is somebody the opposite of Trump, but somebody who shares his view of China. That somebody would need to reach across the aisle on at least this one issue and bring the two parties together to come up with a plan that would address the China problem for the next 20+ years.
Given how much of our debt they own and how many of their goods we buy and how addicted Americans are to their cheap crap, it's hard to imagine that could happen even though it's what has to happen. From that perspective, I can see the value in one man like Trump just putting tariffs into effect to force the issue.
I would agree China will try to influence the election, but so is Russia on the opposite side. One hopes they will cancel each other out. Then, after 2021, we will have a president who takes foreign interference seriously and head up a real effort to do something about it.
China & Russia are allies, united in BRICS and in their opposition to America's global dominance.
This is common knowledge stuff here for anyone moderately knowledgeable about current international affairs.
On top of BRICS they have the Silk Road initiative, oil & gas for goods trade agreements, and they are both supportive of Iran's interests and oppose America's position on Iran.
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