This election has been thrown into chaos and delayed due to mass main-in ballots...
Is this a good idea going forward?
This is a mess. But the idea of mail-in voting could be organized to work with one set of rules...
There shouldn't be any tpe of mail-in ballots at all. There should be only votes in person w/stricter voter ID. Stricter vote IDs should be implemented. Something is highly suspect about the presidential results.
It worked fine in States like Florida where an honest election took place.
Not so much in places like PA or MI where fraud and "errors" have been exposed and the entire handling of Mail In ballots done in a way to invite putting into question every Mail-In ballot.
This election has more akin with a bad South American election than anything fitting of the US of A.
There were plenty of Democrats that believed the BS fed to them by CNN and MSNBC that the election had been stolen in 2016.
Well, there will be some 68 to 70 million Americans that voted for Trump this election that are going to believe that this election was stolen and fraudulent.
Biden has the support of the MSM, Social Networking Platforms (IE Facebook, Twitter) the DC Establishment, essentially all the voices and all the power structures that matter in deciding what the American people are told and how they are controlled.
Beyond that the removal of Trump is what China, the UN, the EU, etc. all want.
Trump has no allies other than the 68-70 million Americans that voted for him, and as you will soon see, they have no real power and no real voice that matters.
IT has worked well in Michigan until now... I vote absentee and have for years. Right on the ballot, it stipulates if the ballot is not present on Nov 3 it is not valid. This warning always is present, and I always make sure I am timely with making sure it arrives before the date of the election.
This method works and makes one wonder why it was not followed in every state.
What is more important is that every vote is counted....
yes, but what about this ?
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/mic … scheme-to/
No more than I can say about Republican vote suppression techniques. Mail in ballots are nothing new in the American experience, Trump wants it to appear illegal for his own personal gain.
I am certainly not going to verify the utter corruption of vote in ballots on the information, or whatever you call it, from solely one site.
not just one site but the problem with mail in balloting just open the door to all kinds of shenanigans...
You are right Jack. Just listen to this. He explains the whole scam.
Funny how he wants the ballot counting to continue in Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona, where he thinks all the voters are yet to be heard from, sounds one sided to me.
I say "NUTS"
Mail in balloting works. We have it here in WA and in four other states. Fraud is incredibly rare. For the past decade, WA state has only had 7 documented cases of voter fraud. Oregon, who has been doing all mail in since '98, has had only 14 cases. Utah, started mail in voting in 2013, has had none.
All states should go to mail in voting. Verification procedures are very detailed. All signatures are checked against the voter’s signature card, and ballots are pulled out of the stream if irregularities are seen. Voters are then contacted if the signatures don’t match. You can track the path of your ballot and contact elections officials if you think something is wrong.
We need to have one standard system for the entire country. When you have 50 divergent systems along with some states that even pick their electors differently, you're going to have chaos. A federal standard is the only way to avoid this craziness.
the problem is how can you verify easily that the person voting is the same as the ballots submitted by mail...?
and how can you make sure that person does not vote twice, once by mail and once in person...?
I have a friend in AZ who checked his ballot and they said he was not registered. He has been at the same address for 33 years. He retained a lawyer. Then he found the same happened to many of his friends when he told them and they checked their statuses. All Republicans whose ballots were not counted.
The Trump campaign has a website to report voter fraud as well as a phone number. If your friend is inclined to be a good citizen
here is the information ---
https://defendyourballot.formstack.com/ … ce=graphic
Phone number - (888) 630-1776.
So far there has been no factual information reported on voter fraud. The President needs to put forth some factual information.
So far he has not. He needs to provide facts, not allegations. We all deserve to have answers.
Do you really think they are going to court with no facts? Sure, people like the Democrats aided by the media, which is nothing but propagandists for the Democratic Party, will launch investigations without evidence of a crime. People like the Democrats, will impeach without an iota of evidence of an impeachable offense, but do you think for one moment anyone of Trump’s huge legal team would go along with prosecuting anything without evidence?
Do you really think anything could be gained by that?
Trump’s team are not Democrats so they will reveal the lengths to which corruption rules the media and the Democratic Party and because you don’t know anything yet is no reason to cast doubt upon these patriots. Just wait and see.
Btw, how do you know “So far there has been no factual information reported on voter fraud?” From the corrupt media?
I guess because that wasn’t reported to your hotline it didn’t happen?
https://nationalfile.com/video-michigan … -to-biden/
They've already gone to court with no facts, which is why all their cases have been dismissed so far.
Hannity, OMG. Isn't he the moron who had that fake Chinese scientist on claiming China manufactured COVID in a lab?
I have a friend in Arizona who says everything was done exactly right.
LOL Your friend (a complete unknown to anyone but you) is expected to have more "authority" than Hannity? Or anyone else in the world, for that matter?
This concept of "your choice of links is invalid and without merit" is getting old. While I wouldn't take anything Hannity said without a pound (or ton) of salt, that isn't a reason to summarily dismiss anything he said in favor of a different (but equally biased) source. Bear in mind that 99+% of what we read or hear today is biased and 98% is either partially or completely a lie.
I don't have a friend in Arizona. I was just making a point. Most "information" being thrown about is anecdotal and not evidential. If we're going to base our beliefs on one friend who says something, we're in trouble and anybody who uses such evidence does not come to their conclusions factually.
You don’t even know what cases have been filed and simply made up the statement all their cases have been dismissed. I know one was appealed and reversed by the appellate court. No sense debating if you are just going to make things up.
You totally misunderstood my post. I am a Trump supporter, I canvased for Trump. I was pointing out information to report any form of voter fraud. Many just do not step up and report fraud.
I am very aware of all that is going on in Michigan. I live in Michigan in one of the counties that used the software that has been reported to have faulty software. The counties that so far used this software are many of our most affluent communities in Michigan, and in 2016 turned red... Monday I will be headed to check how I voted! I hope my vote was registered for Trump or you will see me on the news. In Wayne County, a county our largest county few were not allowed in to witness count, and were kept 30 feet away and could not visualize anything, eventually, cardboard was placed up to totally block their view. When the poll watchers complained they were physically removed in some cases.
I in no way feel the Trump legal team will enter any legal challenges. It well appears here in Michigan not one but several problems have occurred. My comment in regard to fraud not being reported was posted before Michigan had a glitch that was in favor of Democrats.
So far there is one incumbent that thought he lost has now been declared the winner. Each country that this software was used is now being checked. So far one result has been overturned. So yes, Trump's attornies will have very substantials facts to bring to the courts. And by the end of the day, I would assume we will realize more republican did win...And be pleasantly surprised.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ … 184186002/
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2 … -for-biden
This morning it is being reported that they will be checking out counts in all counties that used the software in question.
All that is good to hear. Sorry if I mistook the inference of your comment but you have not answered my question. How do you know so far there has been no factual information reported on voter fraud? Do you really think the MSM cares about reporting voter fraud?
When I used the word reported, I was referring to media reports. I at this point realize at least one affidavit that was taken under oath — An affidavit filed Thursday claims a poll worker was asked to change the date on ballots. Not sure where this will go. This whistleblower needs to be heard.
“Media reports” Exactly what I said, Do you really think the MSM cares about reporting voter fraud? Why would you rely on the media, maybe this will convince you.
You, of course, understand that those computer glitches will be caught when they match the computer record to the machine tape.
Mail in balloting works?
So your subjective anecdotal account in your state is the basis for condoning a national mail in ballot policy? Think again.
Maybe this will enlighten you.
https://www.prageru.com/video/how-to-st … n-ballots/
These are facts, not "anecdotes." The Heritage Foundation did an exhaustive study of mail in ballot fraud. They found nothing.
You post something Prager U? Sad and ridiculous.
Do you deny that the risks expounded on in that video and the factual proof of fraud presented are meaningless?
That demonstrates that the only sad and ridiculous post is yours.
How about a link to the heritage study? I’ll tell you why, because what you said about it is untrue.
Yep. Prager is garbage.
https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/vo … ion-fraud/
I didn’t see prager on that video? I think you need your vision examined - oh, I know you never even watched the video.
And you expect anyone to take you seriously? Lol
Try watching this and then explain exactly why you think this election was above board.
Oh I know your answer already!
Giuliani is garbage...right?
Yes, you are very predictable.
The President said there was fraud. Well, produce evidence. It's that simple. When asked about it, the chair of the RNC said to give her time. Wait, I already thought they had the evidence. Otherwise, why would they make the charges?
Sure, Rudy Giuliani is a believable source. What a joke. What's up with the laptop? Does he reach into his pants in that clip? Probably not. No underage girls around.
Our intelligence officials believe Giuliani to be a Russian stooge, unable to discern the origin or truth of the information he is being fed. He's also a Trump stooge, so not a reliable source of anything.
Trump said there was fraud. The RNC chair said she had to find it after Trump said there was fraud. If he had proof, wouldn't he give it to the RNC chair? So first they claim fraud and now they're going to go find the proof. So far, their arguments haven't actually involved fraud. They've involved process things, which they can't do anything about because the states decide that.
But hey, if they can prove fraud in court, they should be given every opportunity. The integrity of our election is important.
I disagree. PragerU is not garbage—any more than Brookings Institute positions are. PragerU is an ideological position. That simply means that it is a biased interpretation, not that it is automatically wrong.
Address the message, not the messenger.
Well said GA. If you reread this thread you will find that every factual post that calls into question some of these hubbers’ assertions is immediately followed by attacking the messenger and even misrepresenting who the messenger is.
Eric Eggers of the Government Accountability Institute answers this vitally important question, not Dennis Preger.
What you don’t seem to understand is just because mail in voting hasn’t resulted in fraud being discovered (until recently) doesn’t mean it isn’t susceptible. It would make sense that the Democrats refrained from using it to cheat on elections until such a time as this when they could implement it nationwide to steal a presidential election. The weaknesses of mass ballot voting are clearly and unarguably laid out in Eggers’ five minute video. Just because those weaknesses haven’t been largely exploited til now doesn’t mean they don’t exist, that the probability for massive fraud doesn’t exist.
Here's some links for you:
1. www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/0 … the-risks/
3. https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/ … 969447002/
"Kayode", stop the name calling, stop calling myself and others liars. It's a bad look. Just present your case, no need for accusations.
The three links you posted prove exactly what I said. Who are you kidding? Not one of them is as you said “ The Heritage Foundation did an exhaustive study of mail in ballot fraud. They found nothing.” I guess you think everyone is like you and doesn’t look at what is posted.
I’d suggest you read your own links and explain where any of them represent an exhaustive study that shows mass mail in ballots (not absentee ballots, there is a difference) result in no fraud.
There is no question you don’t know what you are talking about and to protect yourself from embarrassment you call my pointing out the truth name calling. Nice try.
I’d suggest you actually take 5 minutes of time to watch the preger u video and learn something. For you I’d suggest you watch it several times.
Well, I agree with all the points made in your link. I think they are all valid concerns with this new national initiative based on Covis-19 concerns. b
But, in consideration of the five states that have had mail-in balloting for 20+ years, I think mail-in balloting is a viable option.
Consider the current situation—with all the lawsuits, ranging from dead or ineligible voting to a transparency issue of vote counting, it seems the numbers of affected votes would not affect the overall outcome.
So, if your PragerU points are considered valid, would their non-transformative results, (such as recount efforts resulting in less than single-digit vote percentage changes, or "dead" voter ballots being less than a tenth of a percent of votes counted), make a difference in outcomes?
I am not a proponent ofmail-in balloting. I think our voting system should be in-person—as it has always been, but, I have found no persuasive evidence that mail-in balloting is so error-prone as to be a danger to our Republic.
I don't like mail-in balloting, but, I don't agree with the arguments against it.
Well GA, we have to agree to disagree on that but kudos for actually taking 5 minutes of time to watch the video and acknowledge that it makes valid points unlike some hubbers who seem to be too busy to actually pay attention.
I have used absentee balot for some years due to at times not being in-country. Before each election, I am sent a form to correct any information that may have changed. I then am sent my ballot. On that ballot is a warning --- If this ballot is not there on election day, it will not be counted. It would seem if the rest of the states would have used this very simple procedure (and they had literally months to do so) the confusion would have been far less. It well appears and this is only my opinion this confusion was what many states were looking for. Sorry for sounding so jaded. Bur America has used absentee ballots for years. One would think all could have used the same rules... I intend to check if my vote was counted, and was it counted for Trump. It's now been reported by our local news some form of a computer glitch occurred, that already had one of the election results overturned due to this glitch. And yes it was a Republican that ended up winning. What a sad time for our Country.
You are effectively complaining about states' rights. Each state establishes its own election rules.
And yes, it's a sad time. We're in the middle of a pandemic. Seems like all those people who voted by mail or absentee did the country a service by not exposing others to the virus - or at least limiting the spread.
Why is it surprising that it takes longer to count those ballots?
And we should be pleased that reports around the country suggest that poll watchers were able to do their duty and the election went off very well. Even Trump's lawyers were forced to admit as much.
I'd rather they get the vote right than try to rush through it. And I would think everyone would want us to count every legal vote.
I felt with the pandemic it was an acceptable idea to used more mail-in ballots. What I am we had 8 months actually to prepare a successful method of getting those ballots available to be available on Nov 3. Perhaps the states that did not use mail-in before should have learned from the successful;l way it works in the states that have used it for many years.
We had lots of time, no excuses for not getting all ballots in by election day.
And here in Michigan, they were not able to come close to being able to monitor ballots. We literally had any poll watchers that complained of the problem thrown out.
Now, this morning it has been was reported due to a computer glitch one election for one of our Republican candidates was overturned in his favor due to this glitch. All our counties today are being checked for the very glitch. The glitch was discovered in one of our red counties, one of our most affluent counties. The people called for a recount, and yes it turned out to have had a glitch that skewed the vote Democratic.
It will be interesting to see where this all goes. My county is one that is being looked at.
I will be checking if my vote was registered and if it registered my vote for Trump. Many of my neighbors will be doing the same on Monday.
I want to feel comfortable that my vote was registered properly. Yes, we need to slow down and check out any problems. Hopefully, we find few, because it will do a lot of damage to voter confidence as a nation. I have never even considered checking my vote before this election.
Will you actually be able to check if your vote went to Trump? Because if you can that means voting is no longer via secret ballots - something that has been considered necessary for an honest election.
And secret ballots DO make sense. I see reports that AOC is already calling for a permanent record of those that posted pro-Trump messages on social media; consider the ramifications if everyone's votes were known and available to AOC or other deranged individuals that wish to rain retribution on those that voted "wrong".
I do believe if in person I can not only check if my vote was registered, I can request if it was placed for Trump. Many uses have canvased have been asked to do this. There is no secret it's my vote. I should have the right to check if it was placed for the candidate I voted for.
I would think we on the right are over being threatened by anyone, especially Democrats. Like I said some time back, I am over placating anyone. The right will push back, The rain of silliness has come to an end. And it well appears Trump will point out a lot of ugliness that needed pointing out long ago. Do you really think the fear of Democrats will win in the end? I don't. It's come to a point they need to be put back in their place before we lose our Constitutional way of life.
I see all the fear on the right. I see Trump stoking fear, causing panic, encouraging his supporters to threaten poll workers - volunteers on the right and the left.
All his legal challenges have been thrown out so far due to lack of evidence, so his assertions of fraud are not backed up by actual evidence. Know what that's called? Fraud.
Even the RNC Chair admitted as much. She very specifically said that she would need to find evidence of fraud after the President said there was fraud - confirming that the President said this with no evidence whatsoever. Even Trump's own lawyers admitted in court that their poll watchers were allowed exactly where they asked to be.
Seems to me that our nation is already in a lot of trouble. We've got foreign nations interfering in our elections. We've got lies spreading over social media in all directions. We've got a very large part of the electorate believing that the voting is rigged and that mass cheating is going on.
Our democracy is dying as conspiracy theories run rampant and people are unable to discern truth from lies. More and more people think basic science is fake.
It just goes on and on.
I agree - there is nothing to date that even MIGHT indicate anything like the levels of voting fraud necessary to change the election.
And yet...I think back 4 years to Trump screaming that his campaign was spied on, and everyone poo pooed it. And it turns out he was right all the time; he WAS wiretapped. That's a troubling thought to me, but not enough to actually give credence to his claims of fraud at this time.
I believe he was "spied" on because his campaign was communicating with Russian intelligence officials. That was firmly established by a bi-partisan Congressional commission.
I'm pretty sure that anyone in the U.S. who communicates with Russian intelligence officials will be monitored by the FBI. You are insinuating that this was done by the "deep state" to somehow thwart Trump's success. There's nothing to support that, particularly since he won.
And "Obamagate" was investigated by Trump's own Attorney General and they found nothing unlawful happened. Funny that.
U.S. Intelligence still believes that Rudy Giuliani has been delivering Russian disinformation to this day including the so-called Hunter Biden laptop.
"I believe he was "spied" on because his campaign was communicating with Russian intelligence officials."
What you believe, or I believe, does not change that he WAS spied on, or that no one believed him when he reported it. Nor does anything that Guiliana did or didn't do. Nor does the reason (valid or not) for the spying.
And that was the point - he was spied on, reported it (just as he is doing with voter fraud) and no one believed him.
Now, I believe that his latest claims are just those of a spoiled child having a tantrum at losing...but that small memory of the past, and the claims then that it was a false claim, gives a small pause to the belief. And I think it should to everyone. Trumps rants are not always without cause.
Of course he was spied on. I'd call it surveilled. This is what the FBI does when they know you're talking to people who want to do us harm.
I presume if the Trump campaign were talking to Islamic extremists, you'd expect the FBI to watch that situation, right? Why is it different for people they know to be Russian intelligence officials?
During the course of the election, nobody revealed that Trump's campaign was communicating with Russian intelligence. Maybe they should have.
I appreciate you characterizing Trump as having a tantrum over losing. I'm glad you find it embarrassing. That's what I've been thinking. I've been having deja vu over playground antics as a child. If a child didn't like the results, they accused the winner of cheating. How can it be that our President is doing that? All I can think is that, as a super-wealthy person, he's just never had to confront failure. Money was always there to solve everything.
Are you being intentionally obtuse and ignoring what is being said (I don't expect that of you)?
It doesn't matter what you call it - spied on, wiretapped, surveilled, whatever term you wish - that fact is that he was spied on. And said so. And it was denied by everyone in the country - it was treated again as that spoiled child.
And he was right! He was "surveilled". And now we are seeing the exact same thing - Trump making a claim he isn't supporting and no one believes him (including me). Everyone views it as that kid in the playground. No one gives any credence to the claim...just as they didn't to the claim of spying that turned out to be entirely true. Does that not give you at least a little pause, a shred of doubt, a tiny bit of "maybe this needs looked at"?
Actually, I had to go back and look at this because this accusation has become so muddled. Trump accused Obama of wiretapping him, which was not true. Here's an account of that claim with links and sourcing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Tow … ote-auto-1
From the Inspector General report:
"We found no evidence," the report said, that the FBI sent any confidential sources to join the Trump campaign, sent them to campaign offices or events or tasked them to report on the Trump campaign.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e … blogHeader
So even in responding to your claim, Trump has fooled me into believing what he says is true by repeating it so many times we forget what actually happened.
I'm missing something. There is a major difference between wiretapping (gaining private information via a phone) and sending in a live spy to ingratiate themselves and pass out information?
Trump may have been wrong as to the method (not according to what I recall hearing, but I could be wrong); he was NOT wrong that he was being spied on.
And yes, Trump accused Obama; hasn't Trump been the goat in everything bad that happened in the last 4 years because "it was on his watch"? What changed so that Obama was not responsible but Trump was?
Finally, from your link: "On September 19, 2017 CNN reported that the FBI wiretapped Paul Manafort before and after the presidential election, extending into early 2017, although the report did not make clear whether Manafort was monitored during his tenure with the Trump campaign from March through August 2016." And:
" it is still unknown whether any surveillance of Manafort took place at Trump Tower."
You may believe that the FBI did not make records of where their wiretaps took place: I do not. They know exactly when and where they got those (recorded) conversations - they just refuse to divulge that information.
When I vote, I take my (unsigned) ballot over to the counting machine and feed it in with my own hands. No one else touches it until it is counted.
It is true that it then goes into the hands of a person that sets it aside into the pile of counted ballots, and it is true that if that person knows me they could make note of how I voted. Something not likely to happen.
But consider those folks with MAGA hats or other indication of their loyalty and how they have been treated on the streets. Consider those sitting at a table, quietly enjoying their meal, only to be accosted by liberals screaming at them. Physical intimidation is most definitely becoming a tool of the left, and retaining indication of how you vote will only exacerbate the possibility of YOU becoming the next victim.
Have you seen the poll worker forced into hiding in Georgia, I believe, for a video showing him ripping up a piece of paper?
I have no idea whether this poll worker is a Republican or Democrat. But he is a volunteer. Yet, crazed Trump supporters are threatening his life for ripping up a piece of paper, which they mistakenly think is a ballot.
There are always going to be crazy people on both sides. If we're going to paint each other by how our really crazy people act, we're all going to be in a heap of trouble.
by Jack Lee 2 years ago
This election has been thrown into chaos and delayed due to mass main-in ballots...Is this a good idea going forward?
by Readmikenow 16 months ago
As I said before, this isn't going away. "Exclusive: Report confirms 2020 abuses and RNC deploys 'year-round' election integrity unit“However, Democrats, including some public officials, used the pandemic as a pretense toachieve long-sought policy goals such as expanded mail voting and...
by JOC 2 years ago
Could it be that Trump is upset about Michigan and Nevada promoting mail-in ballots because that will make it harder for his Russia allies to hack the technology associated with the voting?
by Allen Donald 2 years ago
Reports from Georgia and Texas reveal people waiting in line to vote for up to 8 hours. This should simply not occur in our country. It is flat-out voter suppression and intimidation to make somebody wait 8 hours to vote.Where I live, I received my ballot in the mail. I filled it out the same day....
by Credence2 2 years ago
It is just dumb, why would the President even open this can of worms? It if were me, I would have asked privately about the possibility of postponing elections, before revealing to the entire world how ignorant I was about the nature and content of this nation's guiding document. Stupid stuff,...
by Kathryn L Hill 23 months ago
When you try to find evidence on the internet today, it is very hard to prove the election was rigged. Yet there are those who are very convinced.To isolate the difficulty: the pandemic enabled the rigging of the election by allowing and encouraging mail-in voting. Maybe next time around we will...
Copyright © 2023 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
|HubPages Device ID||This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.|
|Login||This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.|
|HubPages Traffic Pixel||This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.|
|Remarketing Pixels||We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.|
|Conversion Tracking Pixels||We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.|