The 'Uncommitted Vote'! What does it mean for Biden?
Who’s Defending Democracy Better: Joe Biden or “Uncommitted”? by The New Republic (rated by allsdies as Left) published Mar 15, 2024
https://newrepublic.com/article/179841/ … gaza-biden
"It’s a little ironic, then, that democracy itself has been such a thorn in Biden’s side this election year. Starting with the Michigan primary, held on February 27, organizers working on shoestring budgets have turned out a sizable protest vote against the White House’s continued support for Israel’s brutal war on Palestine. In Michigan’s Democratic primary, 13.2 percent of participants voted “uncommitted”—a ballot option meaning “none of the above,” used to express discontent with the available options. Some states call it something else, like Massachusetts’ “no preference” option, while others require that voters select a candidate. In many states where voting “uncommitted” or its equivalent is an option, it’s had a strong showing. “Uncommitted” garnered 18.9 percent of Minnesota’s Democratic primary vote share. Twenty-nine percent of participants in Hawaii’s Democratic caucus went with “uncommitted,” as well, along with 9.5 percent of voters in Washington State this past week. As of now, with more primaries to go, three states (Michigan, Minnesota, and Hawaii) will send a total of 20 “uncommitted” delegates to this summer’s Democratic convention in Chicago."
For more pick and choose an article from the following Google landing page.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … +2024#ip=1
What does it mean? Ideas or speculations?
Worth worrying about?
Too early to have any significant impact for the Nov ballot?
Thoughts?I think it means that more people than ever will be holding their noses and voting against a candidate rather than for a candidate. This might also mean a lower voter turnout. I bet a quarter turnout will be lower.
A third-party candidate is likely and their impact could be stronger than Perot's third-party run. I think that's a good thing.
GAThanks for commenting, GA!!
Off topic, I just watched three episodes of 'In the Heat of the Night' with Carrol O'connor before writing this. Repeats are on Sunday morning for five hours. They originally were broadcast '88 - '95. Did you watch that show? I think the character of 'Bubba' was the most distinctive of change considering the township of Sparta, Mississippi for the setting.
I thought about O'connor in the days of Archie too. I was teethed on that with the contrast/compare of conservatism and liberalism in my high school days. In other words, I was introduced to something different.
Back to your comment . . . I think Trump is right. Paraphrasing him, "It will be the most important election in history" referring to 2024. But, as you shared with your thoughts, for what?
Holding noses
Low turnout
Looking for someone else
Who knows with what with what is playing out today
Thinking about that show In the Heat of the Night and when it broadcast, '88 - '95 I just checked and Perot ran in '92. Connections or parallels with today. Who knows? Just doing some wandering about.I remember In the heat of the night and loved all in the family Humor is a good way to make points no one wants to talk about. Archie was performing a public service and O'Conner did it very well.
GA
I think the Perot analogy is wishful thinking.
Perot was a billionaire, he paid for his own half hour campaign ad that was seen on TV... where he presented things to viewers in similar fashion to what Presidents would give back then on TV from time to time.
That's what I remember anyways... in that sense, Trump was kind of a Perot figure in 2016... an outsider candidate that steamrolled and took over the Republican Nomination. He had his own money to work with to make it happen... like Perot.
RFK would be that type, but he doesn't have the money those two did... and he doesn't have the ability to speak and hold rallies like Trump.
RFK's biggest drawback is his voice (spasmodic dysphonia), its hard to listen to sometimes. Can't imagine him going on a tour like Trump or Obama could.Ken, I believe more Americans are becoming increasingly attentive to the issues that directly affect them. Many are scrutinizing the ramifications of the current administration's actions more closely. This election won't simply be about choosing the lesser of two evils; it's about preserving what's left of our country. With two options before us, it's clear that sticking with the status quo, the individual responsible for economic downturns, military conflicts, and the influx of illegal immigrants, isn't a viable choice.
While there may always be a small minority resistant to change, I have faith in the inherent discernment of the American people. We need a leader who can address problems effectively, not someone whose track record proves disastrous. The divisions among voters—whether based on age, gender, or other factors—are secondary to the overarching concern: the state of our nation over the past three years. Ultimately, this will be the deciding factor for most voters.
Americans have learned, and learned very well not to vote for the one they dislike the most --- Biden has taught them well that that strategy did not work so well.~ read the Constitution of the United States, maybe ...
When faced with a seemingly lost cause, an optimist's go-to retort is a Mr. Spock quote: "There are always possibilities" ;-)
GAExcept Spock has never said that.
"Insufficient facts always invite danger."
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
"Evil does seem to maintain power by suppressing the truth."
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. Where the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."
"An ancestor of mine maintained that if you eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
Those particular Spock quotes... seem more fitting to this moment in time.Damn, now even the Trekkies are lying to me.
GAWe all know Spock was not an optimist.
He was a realist.
Live long and prosper.You made me look, again. Does a second-hand quote count?
GAI would say that is grey area...
Someone said he said it. That doesn't really prove he said it.
Even if he had, perhaps it has been taken out of context.
The full sentence could have been "There are always possibilities that this may end all existence as we know it, and not just our lives."
Nothing in the full sentence portends to be wise or positive.
But if you only take the "There are always possibilities" part of it, then, it makes it appear as if you have some optimism.
Kinda like how you can take the word "Bloodbath" out of context, and make it mean something totally unrelated to what the person who spoke it intended.It's okay by me if it is a 'false' quote. The message is the same. It carried the point of optimism.
GAThat Kirk attributed him saying such is irrelevant.
As Spock would say 'humans do have an amazing capacity for believing what they choose and excluding that which is painful'.
One can replace 'painful' in that sentence with a lot of things, including 'factual', 'real', 'accurate', etc.
Considering the nature of Spock's character and background, and then considering Kirk, it is far more likely that Kirk is attributing something to Spock that is not factual or true, and inserting his own belief, or misinterpretation, or wishful thinking... Spock is known for his logical reasoning and rational decision-making... not optimistic euphemisms.
I can share my VIEW in regards to the uncommitted in Dearborn Michigan.
The uncommitted voters in Michigan primarily consist of Muslim Americans who oppose the conflict in Israel. This community is tightly knit and deeply committed to their faith. For them, this issue is deeply rooted in religion, and as a result, they are likely to abstain from participating in the political process. I have full confidence that they will choose to sit out, considering the significance of this matter to them. I feel the Michigan Americans who are uncommitted will put faith before their politics.Thanks for commenting. Great food for thought! I considered generational in that context regarding the middle east situation as well. However, religious is a strong element to consider!
Young Adults' Views on Middle East Changing Most by Gallup Poll (Mar 24, 2023)
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/ … nging.aspx
From the article: Bottom Line
"Millennial Democrats’ feelings about the Middle East conflict have changed over the past decade, shifting from solidly in Israel’s corner to now expressing more sympathy toward the Palestinians. While millennials are not the only Democratic generational group moving in this direction, the extent of their more Palestinian-oriented sympathies combined with their growing numbers means they have had a disproportionate influence on the broader pro-Palestinian shift seen on this question among Democrats as a whole."
On the quote, "There always are ... possibilities" Kirk said it in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. However, he stated:
KIRK: Oh, yes we can.
DAVID: This is just to give us something to do, isn't it? ...Come on.
SAAVIK: Admiral?
KIRK: As your teacher Mister Spock is fond of saying, 'I like to think there always are ...possibilities.'
(Saavik leaves)
KIRK: I did what you wanted. ...I stayed away. ...Why didn't you tell him?
Script at Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan by Chakoteya
http://www.chakoteya.net/movies/movie2.html
Note: Either scroll about 3/4 down the page or use the 'find' feature of your browser. That is what I did looking for 'There always are'.I guess GA didn't want to take the bait.
Perhaps my Trekkie impersonation was too good?
Hard to imagine we are more divided as a society today than when they were making Star Trek back in the 60s.
Many technological advances that seemed impossible then are a reality today. Unfortunately, we cannot say the same, it seems, of humanity's advances.This is something that you have said that I agree with.....
Somebody, please beam me up and hurry?Technology is part of the reason why we are seeing such disruption and discontentment.
Things like TikTok and Instagram and even X are amplifying echo chambers, are spreading some of the worst incidents out there giving a distorted view sometimes of how the world is.
Many of the problems are manufactured however, flying in hundreds of thousands of migrants with little means of control or support once they get here.
Bringing those migrants in and then displacing American workers with them.
Choosing to engage Russia over Crimea, refusing to negotiate or force Ukraine to honor the Minsk Agreement first, in an earnest attempt at peace, rather than engage in the antics of "no compromise'... allowing them to suck more countries into NATO which feeds the MIC and makes companies like Raytheon billions in profits.
Choosing to push Equity... not Equal Opportunity... not Equality... Equity, which is another way of saying anyone who is not white, replacing as many white employees as possible. That isn't EO or Equality... that is Racism.
I obviously could create a very long list of manufactured problems and efforts to create disharmony and distrust... but I think it is self evident. Gets old beating on the drum.Conservatives are good with unmitigated fabrications, when cornered in a discussion they simply change the subject.
Do they ever think beyond the surface of any topic? I doubt it. Maybe you might ask why Tyson had gone belly up and why did it fire so many American workers instead of your usual distraction to blame immigrants? You told me that Tyson would go to New York or California (your bogey man States) to find migrants to fill the ranks. Why would Tyson be attracted to this labor source while firing Americans, do such questions ever find a pathway within the gray matter of any conservative?
Your group is against both equity and equality, you are good at confusing some, but I am not of them. In the case of Tyson, why not blame them for firing white employees, do not whites own Tyson?
Conservatives, regardless as to how they identify themselves, are racist, misogynistic tyrants whom I don't want any where near the levers of power in this society. And you can bet that I use every resource I have including the pen toward that end.....
It appears that you're implying that my group opposes both equity and equality. As for your characterization of conservatives as racist, misogynistic tyrants whom you want nowhere near societal power, it's clear where you stand. Your views on conservatives are noted, saving me the effort of further engagement with you.
I respect your sharing your thoughts without any form of placating. So, don't think me impolite when if I don't respond to any posts you might address to me. At this point, after reading your comment, I will admit, I would need to placate to converse.Wise people will recognize where things are going and escape NY, CA and other like States... taking with them their resources and assets while they can.
There is no law that will not be twisted, no rule that will not be created or cancelled, this is what Marxist/Communist takeover looks like...CA and NY are done, stay at your peril.
Florida and other States will become havens for those who believe in Freedom, Liberty, the Right to Property and ability to Protect oneself.
People who believe in those things need to migrate to State governments trying to protect them.
Living in places like NY only helps them continue their tyranny and helps pay their efforts... if you don't believe in what you see going on, leave, take your businesses, your assets, your wealth and leave.This was not addressed to you but to two fellows that endlessly changed the subject when I asked a direct question.
Anti-woke is anti black. I consider the rewrite of history or its whitewash that is being conducted by conservatives as racist. And, yes, many of the same objections and distrust that the Jews have toward Republicans we share and as far as I am concerned they have earned it.
The abortion issue as taken on by the Republican legislatures are draconian and misogynistic in my opinion.
Trump, in his attempt to criminally remain in office by his hand in the phony electors added to the fact that HE said that the first thing that he would do is direct DOJ to investigate Biden is the mark of a tyrant and one who hasn't any concept of the idea "in accordance with the law" Republicans who seem to overwhelmingly support him, his lies and misconceptions are no better.
In the years we have conversed, I provide straight answers even when you just as soon not listen. You Biden bash with the best of them, attack liberals and Democrats daily, yet when I express my dismay regarding the Right, I bring the house down? You have known where I stand for a long time, what else did you expect?
You can choose to run away from my words as I could have easily done in response to your relentless Biden bashing. But my courage and willingness not to speak from both sides of my mouth will be made manifest, if nothing else is gleaned by others in my exchanges with conservatives.
So, why, all of the sudden, am I the ogre?No... it is not.
That definition is part of the past. Like how you view America is cemented in the past.
Woke means something entirely different by those who use it to identify what is going on in today's America.
Some believe today's Woke is leading us to something like this:
https://twitter.com/XVanFleet/status/17 … 3627371821Ken, I know what it meant in the past and how it used by conservatives, today.. There seems to be a lot of basics regarding America that never seems to change.
For instance, what does A protest in China have to with the definition of woke? You are not just deflecting again are you?
So, am I to believe your definition or the more substantive given by ABC news?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/woke-co … d=93051138
Here is another definition if one is not enough.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/21/11890160 … ck-cultureLet us take what we agree on, that people who say Woke today are not using it to mean what it stood for decades ago.
Now we have to consider what Woke stands for today... I would say it is a term used to identify or label the most extreme Progressive movements of the day.
IE -
Biden's EO giving protective status to Transgenders.
Crimes no longer being punishable in cities.
72 different sexes
MAPs normalized
In other words, things that would have been labeled insane or illegal not even ten years ago.
That is what I consider Woke... the only part of any of it that could even potentially be labeled as relating to race is Biden's EOs and Administrative regulations pushed throughout the Federal government to promote Equity.
Now what is going on in CA and NY as well as a few other states, goes beyond that into Socialist, Communist territory.
Which today results in this:
https://twitter.com/sues86453/status/17 … 0433515623
There are a few stories like that going around about NY squatters.
You also get NY Subways looking like this.
And of course an out of control Banana Republic NY Justice System
https://twitter.com/Jules31415/status/1 … 1121921490
I know how bad NY is for working stiffs, I had the misfortune of spending a decade living there.
If not for my years traveling the country, and outside the country, I might have never known how oppressive a State NY is, for average working stiffs, who pay all the taxes, where the laws are stacked against them.
Getting free from NY was like being given a new lease on life... I think a lot of people stay in NY simply because they don't realize how much better off they could be if they left it. Many people assume things are pretty much the same wherever you go... nothing could be further from the truth, but only stepping out of what you know and taking risks will ever make you realize it.It has nothing to with where you live, per se.
The idea of woke has a far more broad definition. It defines conservatives and a great deal of their reasoning to a T.
------------
These men are united in their crusade against consciousness. They say they are serving a patriotic ideology that will deliver America from the scourge of Black history, diversity, equity, inclusion, trans rights, homosexuality and women choosing what to do with their own bodies. Just as conservatives managed to turn terms like “political correctness”, “family values” and “religious liberty” into bludgeons with which they can beat back the specter of equality, they successfully redefined “wokeness” by turning it into a pejorative that is synonymous with the demise of everything good and white about America.
It’s a neat trick, really. But it’s nothing new.
-----
How true the idea of linking "woke" to Marxism and such is just a variation of the stuff that was used against the Civil Rights movement 60 years ago.
" Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"... (The Who)Escape From NY... and CA... and WA...
Your property rights mean nothing to these ideology driven Democrats.
Your rights to protect yourself mean nothing to them.
Your assets will be seized, your freedoms restricted.
My warning to anyone in those States that are thinking they can stay and fight the good fight... you can't... you are needed elsewhere in places like Florida that have not been completely corrupted and compromised by the Woke insanity gripping places like NY. Like the Biden Administration.
Stop paying taxes to a State like NY... stop supporting their insanity.New York City is becoming the 10th circle of hell. Migrants, crime, & prices are out of control. New York City is rapidly returning to 1970s levels in terms of crime. In Queens, a woman was arrested because the house her parents left her was occupied by scatters. She protested against this by trying to evict them. Guess what? She got arrested. In New York City, people who defend themselves against the criminal element are arrested for defending themselves. I will never vote Democrat again. The Democrats are destroying America.
Spot on. What the Democrats represent in one short sentence.
Where Democrats have complete control, and have ahd such for decades now, there is the deconstruction of society and abuse of the legal system.I concur with your observation. However, it's evident that many Americans are content with the current trajectory of the country. I am optimistic that in 2024, more people will recognize the importance of voting out Democrats. The increasing divisiveness in our nation is concerning, indicating a potential disregard for common sense.
I think you have 50% of the population that is woefully misinformed and/or reliant of government handouts (Social Services).
In addition, you have tens of millions of Migrants wanting their continued government handouts (Services) and ability to remain in America and enjoy better rights than many Americans. They will impact this election on behalf of the Democrats.
Then you have a good portion women voters that have been convinced by the MSM propaganda that Republicans (Trump) are worse than hitler/nazis.
Women are more empathetic and can be coerced into believing there is a threat far more easily than men.
This is why 58% of women voted for Biden in 2020 and only 42% of men voted for Biden... men are not as easily coerced by emotion or fear.
It is only the complete ineptness, corruption, and warmongering of the Biden Administration that has made what should have been a slam dunk re-election for them a toss-up.
If the Biden Administration hadn't gone off the charts insane with their Transgender, support for child-mutilation, Gaza, Ukraine, millions of migrants overflowing everywhere... Trump wouldn't even be in the running.
If there weren't stories like this (below) being told every day about how bad the Biden Administration and its supporters really are... who knows how easily they would have won the election in 2024.
The Biden administration is trying to send an 82-year veteran to prison for life for the crime of repeating ‘Russian misinformation.’ The scariest, most important criminal case you’ve probably never heard of.
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/statu … 2325257685Typically, I closely follow election polls as they often provide a reliable snapshot of American sentiment and potential voting patterns. In 2016, for instance, I anticipated Trump's victory, feeling he would not win the popular vote.
However, it's evident, in my view, that societal attitudes have undergone significant shifts, particularly within certain demographics, as you've highlighted. This prompts me to ponder whether there exists a sizable portion of the population unaware of the numerous challenges posed by the current administration.
I speculate, with some uncertainty, that a majority of Americans are grappling with the various issues affecting citizens today under this leadership. Consequently, this upcoming election promises valuable insights into the collective mindset of the nation."I think you have 50% of the population that is woefully misinformed and/or reliant of government handouts (Social Services)."
Standard rightwing boiler plate, Ken, but it is still bullsh@t.
Trump, as the most obtuse, inept, criminally associated man ever to hold or seek the office of the Presidency would be popular amongst most of you because of white fragility and your fear of loss of status. That is the only logical explanation for him to have gone as far as he has.
bTW, I do not support non citizens receiving government money, but you really think that the Social Security and military and federal pension people are receiving handouts? That is quite a revelation.... why don't you clarify that 50 percent, does that go back to Romney in 2012?
"Then you have a good portion women voters that have been convinced by the MSM propaganda that Republicans (Trump) are worse than hitler/nazis."
And you know what, they are.
Your bias against women and the idea that they can't make logical selections and choices is another sign of a misogynistic attitude. We have spoken about this before. I am a man and I still say that Trump sucks!!No. Its fact.
Over 30% receive some form of Social support. An average of more than half of Americans aged 18-65 are considered underinformed or misinformed when considering basic (common) knowledge of current events.
In 2019, 99.1 million people participated in one of the 10 programs discussed in this brief, representing 30 percent of the U.S. population.
https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/file … ty-net.pdf
"Information inequality" among American voters deprioritizes younger, lower-income minorities.
The way Americans consume and retain political news affects the way they think, behave, and vote — and new research suggests that might have unhealthy consequences for democracy. The reason?
A study co-authored by MIT Sloan assistant economics professor Charles Angelucci found that older, wealthier white males are more likely to be aware of news stories than any other demographic.
[This is probably a key reason why the majority don't vote Democrat, as I stated above they are far less emotional and far more fact based oriented when voting, than women are.]
Minorities are less informed. The study found the most conversant voters tend to fall into the 50-70 age group, with wealthy, educated white men over the age of 47 being the best informed. The least-informed voters were young, low-income minority women.
“Unexpectedly, we found that women are less informed than men, and we don’t have a good explanation why. And these were very robust results,” Angelucci said.
[My wife can tell you all about what happened at the Oscars, but couldn't tell you diddly about what is going on in Congress.]
[Though she is on the higher end of education, is a RN, with plenty of specialties and experience, when it comes to what is impacting our economy, our taxes, our foreign affairs... not overly aware would cover it nicely.]
[This goes beyond my wife, to many interactions I have. It is a common theme I find, and it is less about race than it is the two sexes. In fact, I would say the most aware group after "old white men" is young black men that I talk to.]
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to- … tudy-shows
On an aside, nearly two-thirds (64%) of adults say it is hard to tell the difference between what’s true and what’s not true when listening to elected officials. Smaller shares of adults struggle with discerning facts on other media. For instance, 48% say it is hard to tell the difference between what’s true and what’s not true when using social media, including 16% who say it is very hard. And 41% say it is hard to tell the difference when watching cable television news.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 … ntability/
61% say the news media intentionally ignores stories that are important to the public. “There hasn’t been a single positive story on President Trump. He’s the only sitting President to have met with a North Korean dictator, but it was spun as a negative by the media and the [Democrats]. He’s the only President who has attempted to address illegal Immigration effectively, but the media and [Democrats] spin it negatively.”
A Reuters Institute survey found that a rising number of people are avoiding the news or just don’t believe it.
The Reuters Institute said that alongside the rising number of people avoiding news is a drop in trust in reporting in the US to the lowest point yet recorded at just 26% of the population.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … ers-survey
“If you look at that Reuters data and extrapolate it out, we can estimate that roughly 100 million American adults are not getting their news needs met,” Ripley said.Ken, You have made you point on the 30 percent, I give you that. Where does the 50 percent come from?
I will also acknowledge that the average American in woefully ignorant as to current events.
What a coincidence, my wife is retired RN, she is impossibly liberal, even beyond me. I have to remind that when the day is done, somebody has to pay for the soup...
But, She has enough experience to recognize Trump for the ogre that he is.
People are obsessed with own immediate survival and don't have the luxury of thumbing thru the Wall Street Journey while sitting on the beach. Wealthier while males have that luxury.
But my point is that having that superior knowledge would make me suspect of their agenda and their intent to use that knowledge to their advantage and to the disadvantage of those not among their numbers. In other words, I don't trust them. The Right to rule is not based on who knows more, because that so called superior knowledge can be abused, and when it come to rich Right white males, I can expect nothing less. I insist on popular sovereignty.
The media is in the back pocket of the 1 percent, this idea bothsidesism is being promulgated by the press, when Trump has made it clear in his statements, his associations, that he intends to dismantle the Democratic tradition here as it stands. Why else would he buddy buddy with Orban, the tyrant of Hungary? That is not leadership in the American tradition.
We have a clear choice; to continue to struggle within the democratic tradition and the rule of law OR welcome an authoritarian anti-democracy built to serve one man. Everyone wants to dance around the periphery of what this is all about, but I apply my dagger to the heart. There is far more at stake in those choices than the concern about the price of bread.I agree with all you say here.
Except your Trump perspective. On this we see it differently.
I see Trump as someone who is a threat to the very corrupt establishment/system that has control.
You see him as a threat to Democracy itself.
I see those who currently have control doing everything within their power to remove freedoms, liberty, rights to own property, from us.
You see them as defenders of those things and Democracy itself.
We view the threats to America... to our rights... in very different light.
Part of that is you trust the system, the MSM, you believe the rhetoric that Trump is a Russian puppet, rapist, KKK member, etc. and I don't.
One of the reasons why I don't believe it... is because those very same tactics are used on anyone that opposes them or falls out of favor with them... Mitt Romney, Tulsi Gabbard, Elon Musk... anyone that doesn't fall in line with their ideology and effort to control and manipulate the American people are labeled with the same old labels and become enemy #1.
Trump, Gabbard, Musk are not enemies of Democracy, they are not enemies of the American people... they are fighting for them... and they are vilified for it.Same here BTW. Went with her today to the Animal Shelter 30 minutes away so she could donate laundry detergent, food, etc... if there was less than $100 dollars of stuff it wasn't by much.
Overly charitable to others, much better person than I am.You are on a roll . . . you have a couple of conservatives agreeing with your comments (mostly). Careful, we've been known to ''rub off' on reasonable folks. ;-)
Automatically being suspicious of folks who know more than you sounds like an imposed hindrance. It also sounds like it's more of a racial thing than a knowledge thing. Aren't people who know more than you the ones to seek out and listen to? You seem to think a larger (admitted) less voting-informed populace is more important to have than a smaller more issue-informed educated voting populace.
Wait, don't misconstrue that. Except for the thought in that paragraph, the rest of your comment rings true for me too.
GA"Automatically being suspicious of folks who know more than you sounds like an imposed hindrance. It also sounds like it's more of a racial thing than a knowledge thing. Aren't people who know more than you the ones to seek out and listen to? You seem to think a larger (admitted) less voting-informed populace is more important to have than a smaller more issue-informed educated voting populace."
But for me, those who want to be my leader, I will select as to who is the best informed and knowledgeable, recognizing that there are many other components and character traits besides greater knowledge that makes for a successful leader. It is not necessary a racial thing but a general principal thing. I will let the voters make the determination as to what character and personality traits they use to select their leaders. No one knows more than myself regarding all things. I fall back on the late Will Rogers' comments about ignorance. I would seek a leader that is not so quick to know it all but is willing to listen and learn about what it is he does not know,
For example: Trump is generally the dumbest man on two legs, rated the worse President of both this and the 20th century, but obviously possessing superior knowledge is not a prerequisite for MAGA voters..but, i stand behind their right to make whatever choice they may select for whatever reasons.
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"You seem to think a larger (admitted) less voting-informed populace is more important to have than a smaller more issue-informed educated voting populace."
That is correct.
Every American citizen has the right to participate and have their say, who is considered "smarter" and more qualified to cast a ballot is still a subjective consideration. ...One of the things Trump was not on-board with was the Paris Accord (AKA Paris Agreements).
With that in mind, I leave you with this Docu-Movie to consider:
https://twitter.com/wideawake_media/sta … 2710217954The movie is a bit long, I will have to fish out some time and get back with you.
It is long, I also had to take it in half hour bites.
However, the information provided is as provocative as it is informative.
Its important information to consider, when listening to our 'leaders' talk about the necessity for carbon taxation, carbon removal, and doing away with livestock, etc.
You pulled a switch on me. We were talking about educated voters, not leaders. You did that to insert Trump, didn't you?
Yep, every American citizen has the right to vote, and to have their say. But you're being a bit disingenuous with that 'who's to say' stuff.
The context was the dangerous effects of uninformed voter choices. Sure, we all have a right to vote, bless your idealistic heart, but some of us are so misinformed (or underinformed) that a sane person wouldn't want us anywhere near the ballot box.
GASorry to have digressed.
What constitutes informed voter choices, they used to have something called a literacy test not so terribly long ago?
I will take my chances with misinformed or underinformed voters rather than minority rule by a cadre of this so-called knowledgeable and elite.I'm not calling for any 'tests.' Just grumbling. Voters should care enough to at least know who they're voting for other than because somebody told them who or it's who their friends are voting for. It would be even better if they knew why, but that seems a bit much to ask.
GAI don't know, we had almost 150 million cast ballots in 2020, definitely a record amount. If people were determined to be engaged rather than be apathetic and not vote, perhaps they were not as uninformed and ignorant as commonly assumed.
It is hard to be an informed voter when one's government goes through exhaustive efforts to limit what its citizens know.
One such example is how close we are to a full blown WWIII scenario, we are on the precipice of another European war. But this truth is hidden from America while at the same time lies of Ukraine's imminent victory have been ongoing for over a year.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/03/18/s … ht-russia/
https://sundayguardianlive.com/top-five … ror-attack
Two examples of information that will not be debated or contested in the MSM. How much is true is debatable, but we will not be having that debate in the public arena or in the MSM.
Of course, I have been on record for about two years now as to where this was going, and it doesn't appear as if wiser decision makers have been put in charge, despite Victoria Nuland's 'retirement'.Ken, As the conflict in Ukraine persists, it's evident that the country's cities and towns have been devastated. The loss of civilian lives is incalculable, yet it seems the world remains largely unaware of the true toll. It's perplexing that despite Russia's clear military buildup near Ukraine's borders, NATO didn't move to incorporate Ukraine into its alliance sooner. One can't help but wonder if such a move would have deterred Russia's aggression, given the potential consequences of engaging NATO forces.
However, as I reflect on this war, it becomes apparent that there are deeper, more sinister motives at play. The lack of meaningful negotiations to halt the violence is troubling. Even now, discussions to end the conflict are scarce. It's disheartening to witness the ongoing bloodshed with no resolution in sight. It feels as though Ukraine has become a battleground, sacrificed in a larger geopolitical game ostensibly aimed at countering Russian aggression. Yet, the disproportionate burden of this conflict falls squarely on the shoulders of Ukrainian civilians.
It's alarming how little attention this reality seems to garner from the international community. It's as if the world is content to watch two nations locked in a deadly struggle, with one side suffering far more than the other. Why is it that more people aren't recognizing the blatant injustice unfolding before our eyes?
In my view, and to put it bluntly --- What I'm witnessing is essentially a "killing ground" unfolding before us. It's a stark reality where the lives of Ukrainians are being sacrificed in the name of stopping Russian aggression. Despite the rhetoric of acting in the interest of thwarting Russia's advances, it seems this harsh truth is being overlooked by global citizens. It's akin to pitting two nations against each other in a closed arena setting, with one side enduring immense casualties while the other nation's private citizens remain relatively unscathed. As NATO and the international community observe this spectacle, one can't help but question why more people aren't acknowledging the glaring injustice that's increasingly difficult to ignore.
This war makes no sense when truely thought out.
"Consider this: Would you prefer sending our own sons and daughters to confront the Russians? Because if their advance in Ukraine isn't halted, that might be the inevitable outcome."
Doesn't Kathline's statement underscore my point? Isn't it true that many share this perspective? And what does it say about us when we assign value to human lives, essentially implying that it's acceptable to utilize citizens of another nation to wage a war while those from NATO nations remain unscathed? While I acknowledge the necessity of combating aggression, should a single entity like NATO have the authority to decide whose lives are expendable? In the context of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, this is precisely what we're witnessing.
Is this a mindset that promotes any form of common sense, or empathy toward other nations people?
"If you prick us, do we not bleed?” William Shakespeare's
Sorry for being so lengthy. However, I had hoped to share my view, and I trust you to be open-minded. I am starting to pick these sentiments up on various other chat forums.The West views this as a conflict between two separate states.
Russia views this as a conflict much more akin to a Civil War.
Without going through an exhaustive regurgitation of things I have said many times before. America involving itself in Ukraine's effort to take Crimea back and to retain Donbas is no different than if Russia were to involve itself in our Civil War.
The history of that region and the conflicts that have embroiled them go back further than America has existed as a nation.
Our government chose to pursue this course, decades ago, our government even now tries to destabilize Russia, to escalate the conflict, and uses Ukrainians with little regard to how many hundreds of thousands die or what happens to Ukraine or what its future will be.
The fact that Biden refused to compromise, refused to negotiate, and holds that same position today is the reason why there is war in Ukraine as much as any reason.
In order for compromise to be found and a devasting World War be avoided, Biden and his entire Administration needs to be flushed out of Washington... if it is not already too late.
Interjecting I would like to add not only are there the biases to navigate to become 'informed' such as confirmation bias, there is perhaps the most paramount element = Time, more so available time. Also true journalism answers the 5 W's and How much. Those are who, what, where, when, and 'why' Unfortunately, perhaps, today is the 'why' is exploited for political reasons, which is a driving force.
The retired senior, the supposed 1 percenters, the bum with nothing to do, and employee cheating the employer by sneaking online, and other examples you may add are who have available time to become informed and then apply what ever critical thinking skills they posses with the sources that are used while individuals have ingrained preferences.
Some, without available time, just go for the headlines to gain understanding and, frankly, don't read the information or watch a video much less pay attention to local news broadcasts. Thus, today's, social media is dominated by meme's, a 280 character tweet, or a 15 sec. to 3 min TikTok. It is exercising a strategy to capitalize on the available time of the consumer of, yes, politics and social issues.
Just a little wandering . . . Oops!Oh hell, after such a healthy dose of Tsmog's 'confirmation bias,' I better be careful to step around it. The gist of your comment rings true for me.
Cred's reply offers some balance because I can disagree with some of his conclusions.
GA
"Many of the problems are manufactured however, flying in hundreds of thousands of migrants with little means of control or support once they get here. '
Proof?
We didn't "engage" Russia over Crimea
and they also violated the Minsk agreement.
Who is behind the grand scheme of replacing all white workers? Why exactly do they want to replace white workers?
Really so much disinformation in one post.
It means they got it out of their system and will now vote for Biden.
It's their future. They are not going to trust it to a Trump.Here is a little more....
Among Trump supporters:
51 percent say: “Public schools should be required to teach civic education that emphasizes patriotism and deemphasizes any negative aspects of our nation’s history.”
50 percent say: “Laws should be enacted requiring citizens to show respect for national symbols and leaders.
45 percent say: “A law should be enacted that limits protests and demonstrations deemed by the government to be potentially disruptive to public order.
”41 percent favor “Red” states “seceding from the union to form their own separate country.
”37 percent say: “The President should be given the authority to disregard Congress in decisions related to national security.
37 percent say: “Laws should be enacted to limit the expression of views considered unpatriotic or disloyal.
”31 percent say: “Democracy is no longer a viable system and America should explore alternative forms of government to ensure stability and progress.
31 percent say: “The ends justify the means, and any action taken by my preferred political party is acceptable if it achieves our goals.
”30 percent say: “Elections should be suspended during times of crisis.”
To be fair, there are lesser numbers of Biden supporters who agree with these unpatriotic ideas, but there exists absolutely no threat that the Democratic Party will act on any of them.
In contrast, there is a clear and present danger that Trump and other MAGA leaders will use grassroots fury to tear down our constitution-based democracy. Defeating Trump is just the most urgent priority. In the longer term, we must defeat MAGA.
(That is a big 10-4 for me)Ken: " when one's government goes through exhaustive efforts to limit what its citizens know."
This comment cannot go unchallenged.
The example you cited is no more than your opinion. You did list two sources that certainly are not main stream media, but then you can find anything on the internet.
The Sunday Guardian is an Indian newspaper. Couldn't find a review.
“Overall, we rate Consortium News Left Biased based on story selection and advocacy that strongly favors the left. We also rate them as Mostly Factual in reporting due to one-sided opinion-based reporting that is difficult to verify. (D. Van Zandt 11/3/2016) (M. Allen 6/3/17) Updated (10/25/2023)” Mediafactcheck.com
Tell me this. Would you rather our sons and daughters go fight the Russians? Because if they are not stopped in Ukraine, that is what will happen.And where have you picked up this OPINION from?
How much propaganda have you consumed to come up with the belief that if we did not support Ukraine with hundreds of billions of dollars in funds and weapons we would be fighting Russians ourselves?
What right does America have to interfere with Russia and Ukraine, or try to interfere with Russian elections, or try to cause a coup and oust Putin?
What makes you believe that we can continue to escalate the conflict with Russia, sending longer ranged missiles, allowing attacks repeatedly on Moscow, funding Ukraine which would have lost the war already if not for our interference... and NOT send American 'sons and daughters to go fight the Russians'?
Contrary to what the propaganda you consume tells you, our actions are not preventing us sending American troops to go fight Russians, they are ENSURING that WWIII occurs and that Americans ARE sent to go die.
This has always been the reality... clearly we are dealing with an American populace and Administration that is more disconnected from reality than at any time since I have been alive... but the truth, the reality, has always been that Ukraine could not defeat Russia on its own... in order for it to win, America itself would have to fight the war.
It was always an insane proposition brought on by an insane, corrupt, greedy, arrogant Administration unlike any that has had control of our government before.
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