Why is it that gay-agenda proponents think it's okay to make generalizations (and sometimes specific accusations) that straight people want to be gay?
Why is it that a conservative person cannot say something is just plain wrong and other things right without being attacked personally?
Why is it that liberal-minded people get by with falsely accusing conservatives of "hate speech"?
That would depend on whether or not the person actually had good reasons to back up their position on why it's wrong or if their god simply told them it was wrong.
What I don't understand is this... Why are you so against homosexuals? They are doing nothing that personally harms you or anyone else. How can it be wrong to want to be ALLOWED to love the person you love?
I can understand that YOU don't want to be gay, but trying to dictate what sexuality others can be is WRONG, JUST PLAIN WRONG!
Why put a target on your back if you do not want to get hit. The fact is that you seem to thrive on conflict. You jump into a thread and immediately start thumping people on the head with your Christian point of view. You seldom exhibit a willingness to want to discuss things freely.
You herald the acts of others who defend free speech and yet you seem unable to put the practice to use. since you started this thread only as a response to another thread where you were not successful at bullying the participants into compliance with your opinions I think the honorable thing would be to delete it and go have the debate where it started.
I agree that not all people who are anti-gay are homophobic, and the lumping of any one who is anti-gay into a group of supposedly gay people that are in denial of their own true nature is an unfair and juvenile statement.
Because what is right and wrong is subjective, to you what is right is what is wrong to another. You simply stating that Gayness is wrong means you are simply attacking what they are and what they think is right. That means to them they are justified in defending themselves, even if that defense is a counter attack against you.
As a liberal-minded person, that you have just lumped into a broad and sweeping generalization and false depiction of, I would have to say that you have done exactly what you are so indignant about being done to you. Not every liberal-minded person is pro-gay, I am not gay and I am not interested in most gay activities, but I am Pro-freedom and Pro-constitution, and since that means:
We find these truths to be self evident, that all people are created equal that they were endowed by their created with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
That to me includes the right to anal sex with a man if the two men involved are made happy by the act. Even if the "Bibles" say it is wrong.
Didn't you say this in another thread?
Wouldn't that be hate speech?
As to your first question: What the heck are you talking about?
As to your second: Many reasons, first, you're not talking about a "conservative" agenda, you're talking about a narrow-minded religious agenda which has no place in law or government. Second, you don't get to decide what's right and wrong for everyone else with your narrow minded religious agenda. When will people get it through their thick skulls that other people's sexual orientation is none of their damn business?
Finally, when one targets a specific group of people, makes moral judgments about them based on their narrow minded religious agenda, and decides that they shouldn't have the same rights as other groups of people in a country, that's called hate--when one talks about it, it's called hate speech. Some people don't tolerate it. You ought to be grateful for that fact; but for those who won't tolerate hatefulness and subjection, you'd still be nothing but property--you certainly wouldn't be here.
Why is it that Christians think Gays are sinners?
Think it's something to do with the bible Deborah, those bits where it states that God finds homosexuality (not homosexuals) an abomination, but whatever, we are all sinners... all have fallen short of the glory of God.
So Christians are judges?
Nothing was inserted in the Bible to control people?
"So Christians are judges?"
You know full well that the only people we are to judge, this side of eternity, is ourselves.
We are however entitled to inform people of what Gods decision is concerning specific issues which He has provided guidance on.
Indeed, if we see people in sinful circumstances, we are obliged to warn them of the consequences and our own 'blood' is at risk if we fail to do so.
"Nothing was inserted in the Bible to control people?"
Whatever ended up in the bible was/is there by Gods consent.
The whole bible is about controlling people, it's about controlling those of us who want God and specifically Christ, to control our lives, rather than Satan controlling them by default.
It tells us the blessings that come from submitting our authority to Christ, and equally the curses that we attract when we stay in rebellion.
All those in rebellion seem to object to believers pointing out what God has told us will be the outcome of their rebellion.
Why would that be...? if our belief is incorrect and they are right, they have nothing to fear from being annihilated.
So why all the hoo haa about Christ?
well, i honestly can't answer that because I can only speak on my own behalf. However, it is statistically proven that the people that are most homophobic are often the same ones that are closet homosexuals themselves. Using anti-gay hate speech and actions to cover up their hidden desires. At least, that's what one documentary told me on HBO one time.
However, I doubt seriously any gay person who said that, meant for everyone in the world. If they did, i'll be the first one to tell them that they're wrong. In fact, just the mere thought of touching another man in a sexual related way, makes my skin crawl and sick. Don't get me wrong, if that's what your into, then fine. Just don't expect me to be a part of it. besides, i much rather be with girls anyway...or a hot polar bear like beth100.
i could be wrong, but i think calling a gay person "pervert" falls under the umbrella of 'hate speech'.
Okay, saying that it's "just plain wrong" to be gay is like saying it's "just plain wrong" to be black, or hispanic or a Roman Catholic, or Jewish, or Indian, or whatever. By saying that it's immoral to be gay, that constitutes hate speech against the gay community. No one is going around saying it's wrong for you to be Christian or whatever, because you have freedom of religion. No one is going around telling you it's wrong to be straight, or that straight people are all secretly gay, I have no idea who told you this. But plenty of gay people are attacked and victimized by straight people who think they need to be "cured".
What a load of....
very biased opinion showing how poorly you interpret even the facts of life.
This response shows you are not very open minded.
You're correct about that, Hokey.
I never claim to be open-minded about any blatant immoral agenda.
No. That is my stance. And it's the Bible's stance. And it's our Maker's stance.
Some things are knowledge of Truth, Hokey, not just opinions.
I hope you'll not continue to let liberal society desensitize you to what's right and wrong.
Hi Brenda, just curious, if you were placed in a position of power tomorrow, in which you had the capacity to change the laws of the country, what would do with homosexuality?
I'd honor the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, not just in our military but in all areas of American society. When people practice consentual adult perversion in private, then that's their business, and, and but, that's exactly where it should remain. NOT flaunted in the faces of Americans, especially youngsters. NOT condoned legally by some form of "marriage" or "civil union". You can't civilize a concept that's uncivil to the core.
Strangely enough I had the same exact thought about stuff you wrote. Hmmmm.
It's gone beyond speech lately. Shooting an abortion doctor; crashing a plane into an IRS office; spitting on black congressmen; shooting a guard at the Holocaust Museum; blowing up the federal office building in Oklahoma City, killing 165 people; and cutting the gas line at the home of the brother of a congressman who voted for health care reform. It's clearly getting out of hand.
Read this, Brenda--
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =124906766
I don't know that many gay people, but I'm quite sure I know more than you. They are friends regardless of sexual orientation. Once our particular stands in this area of social interaction are made clear, I never have to restated my position.
I have never had one of these friends tell me that I'm a closet gay or that I have hidden gay desires.
I thoroughly believe that this is nothing more than a canard based solely on a bigot's assertion with no actual basis in fact.
"Why is it that a [conservative/liberal/progressive/independent] person cannot say something is just plain wrong and other things right without being attacked personally?"
I'd say it's an American pass-time.
I'll agree that some of it is false, but not all of it. From some quarters nearly every uttered syllable is hate filled speech.
Some gay guys will try the "how do you know if you haven't tried it?" or questions of that nature. I think they're hoping some straight men they're attracted to are just closeted - something we call "hope-and-praydar" which is far less accurate than gaydar.
This is, of course, no different from straight men pestering lesbian women (lesbian women pestering straight women, straight women pestering gay men), asking them the same thing.
Sexual orientation, for most, seems to be pretty much hardened by puberty at the latest. But until everyone is completely comfortable with their sexual orientation, there's a lot of ambiguity that can be misinterpreted.
Not that you don't already know all these things...
Either way it's irrelevant. Let's get a bit of perspective here. Given all of the twisted, "Satanic" things going on in the world right now, and God knows there are untold numbers of evil acts, and continuance of evil conditions people are subject to in our times, I think Brenda (or anyone claiming a concern for morality) is therefore forced to pick and choose her battles, ie, to pick the worst of the evil, and combat that.. life is too short to solve every problem out there...
and THIS is what she chooses to fixate on???
Her religion tells her explicitly that she's going to burn in Hell forever for getting a divorce and getting remarried. She's a tortured soul that's projecting as much as she possibly can.
Very, very common among the Talibangelicals.
It's my position that the word "moral" has gotten all mangled... forcing people to stay in rotting marriages is not "moral". Telling those who clearly in many cases (all cases? Don't know..) have extremely strong desires to be in relationships with and fall in love with someone of the same gender that they cannot have the same tax, etc., rights as others is not "moral".
Finally, wasting time banging on about these things when there exist such horrendous conditions that need fixing for children (and adults) NOW, is insane (I mean conditions of sanitation, health, basic literacy, etc.).
why do you assume gay people have "agendas"? do straight people have "agendas" too? i'm straight and have no "straight agenda" or manifesto.
you have repeatedly called homosexuals "perverts". i think that might be the problem.
I am hetero and I have an agenda. My Hetero Agenda is to get it so that women have to not wear clothes.
I actually disagree with you. Gay people do have an agenda - to be treated equally under the law. I would say no other issue binds us as much as that.
Once we're free to serve in the military and get married to the people we love ... the "gay agenda" is over.
You've always been free to serve in the military. That's what the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was about; it allowed everyone to serve as they had before, but it stopped catering to the idea that a gay soldier was behaving in a good, professional manner when they made an issue of loving homosexual practices.
You just weren't free to make unwanted sexual advances to straight soldiers.
That homosexual agenda you're promoting served only one purpose---it made straight soldiers fearful of reporting unwanted sexual advances and insinuations.
Okay. From one straight person to another, what is gay agenda ?
The "gay agenda" is them wanting the right to marry the person they love.
I would go one step further, the Gay agenda is (to me) social acceptance, and the right to live their life in the open without fear or hatred.
Once again, I absolutely love the way you put things, Mikel! Am I following you yet? Hm... not sure, but I am for sure going to follow you from now on
I was already following you, wish I could follow you again though
That would be the agenda to make into U.S. Law the sanction of sodomy and other sexual activities which should be kept (if people so choose to do those things) in private bedrooms, not waved in front of the American people (especially innocent school children) like a flag of approval.
I doubt if there is any such agenda going on that is related to privacy. is there any such case going on in court?
I think you may be right, it would obviously be sensible to go back to putting 'them' in prison, maybe surgically mutilating 'them'. Then we could re-institute slavery to bring back them 'good 'ol days, then we could take back the rights that we men gave women to vote and generally interfere in politicking, but then we would have to discriminate (at best) against divorce but the real joy is that we could run around burning the opposition as witches.
Before any women, slaves, divorcee's or witches push the report button - this is ironic.
Well I am completely baffled. Unless the US is about to make a law that you must sodomise in public I'm not sure how anything is being waved in front of the people.
I don't know what law you are talking about, but I'm not American so I don't pay a lot of attention to every law there. If you are speaking of gay marriage then I can say as citizen of a country where it is legal that it has done nothing to anyone else. A few couples who already lived together put on wedding rings, had a big party and went on with life as usual. The rest of us were in no way effected. Those who proclaimed our society would fall apart and families be destroyed simply look silly now that the law has come to pass and nothing happened.
I do: misquoted and mistranslated garbled messages written and sanctified by HUMANS whose only goal is to gain power and keep it by any means necessary.
What's really sad is that in another time, Brenda herself would be one of the people being subjugated under the very doctrine she preaches and she is too blind to realize it.
I was implying, she might have some problem in her personal life.
Oh! *slaps forehead* I totally missed that implication of it...but you may be on to something.
You should see what straight people do. We still let them get married.
So is it safe to assume you're heterophobic?
No, I'm just a perverted socialist gay sodomite baby-killer.
Wow - I have been having a lazy weekend and coming on and off line morning evening and a bit in the middle of the day and you are always here battling away, fighting the good fight and trying to knock simple words and concepts into the hardest heads!!
I have pretty much decided to give up, but now you make me feel guilty as though I am personally responsible for letting some of the reins of civilization slip away into the hands of the most unbelievable bigots and simple minded morons it has been my misfortune to meet. I can only say I am glad that it is online where the bloody foaming spit that comes with their words cannot get onto me.
I admire your perserverance and amazing patience with these backward learners, deeply damaged individuals and generally hateful people. You make me realise that peace, love and caring are still in the world - despite their efforts.
This battle has been fought for many centuries and reason and logic is slowly winning. It is hard not to just give up sometimes. I did give up recently with the Mormon so-called priest.
But the fundies? I've dealt with them most of my life and they are really no challenge as far as making me angry. They are so funny!
Everybody has to take a break from this stuff from time to time or we'd go insane, I'm sure. I get carried away sometimes, but then I remember what my priorities are, and those four people aren't on hubpages.
I've actually been thinking that I need to focus more on hubs, preferably the kind that might make me some money, lol, and religion ain't it! Nor is politics, I'm afraid.
Also thinking I need to pick my fights better when I do dig in. Nobody can keep up with all the crap that gets spewed.
And as you say it sure affects your perspective of the world and people when you spend too much time on religious boards. It's scary knowing what and how your neighbors really think.
RE: straight people and marriage:
Um, well, from where I stand, I see a lot of hetero people living together in sin.
Methinks the perversion is not limited to gay baby killers.
you lost me...i was making a joke to Pandora's post. you know, about how naughty us straight people can be...haha never minnnnnd......
If you ask me the perversion is in trying to get normal people to feel bad about having normal "urges" and acting on them... you know, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in other words
(and by normal I'm including gay people )
Too bad you have to spell that out in some company, huh?
On reflection my point should be enlarged (no innuendo meant).
The hubber(s) who like to claim that there is something called 'heterophobia' are the ones the MOST guilty of it. After all, such folks normally only accept straight MARRIED sex as legitimate. The rest of us are as evil as gay folks.
Apparently it's showing your face, asking for equal rights, and not shutting up about it.
Is it possible that because the "great" Obama touts baby-killing at the convenience of his daughters, and touts sodomistic practices as the right thing to do (and wants to make those into law), that the liberal agenda thinks it can get by with everything?
Why do you think Obama rarely talks about his white heritage but always his black heritage? Is he maybe ashamed of it? Is he racist? Why shouldn't he be proud of BOTH aspects of his birth?
Maybe the majority of questions posed to him are about his black heritage?
He's not racist but most of the people who criticize him are.
What do you base that statement on? I doubt that its from actual facts, more than likely just your feelings. Feelings do not have a place in debate, facts however do.
you must be one of the most judgmental people I have ever come across. sometimes I question if you really are real.
have you ever read any of his books? he is very proud of his heritage.
I feel sorry for you to be so filled with hate.
Sodomy has been legal for a hell of a long time whether you like it or not. I agree with others, there is no agenda. Since when did you discuss sodomy in school?
I'm quite sure if anyone (gay or straight) engaged in anal sex in public they would be arrested. As they would be if they had plain old missionary style sex. It is kept in the bedroom.
Why do you keep bringing your hatred up again and again?
Why do you keep showing your hatred for straight conservative people?
Since when have I ever said I hated any conservative?
Since when have I EVER said I hated ANYONE?
Yet you continue to accuse me of such.
I'm just pointing out that fact.
No one is saying they hate conservative people.
I hate your opinions, but I love you. Yes, if you can do it, so can I.
Brenda - most of what you say is a hate speech of some form or another, I guess you have some deep problem and so should be pitied, but it is getting hard to find pity for you.
I'm sorry, but calling people perverted, and racist and constantly condemning them is hatred, no matter what you call it.
Are you sure you aren't also TK/Sah OH? Your reprisals are starting to sound just like his...
You mean like you treat me?
Yeah I'd say your constant condemnation of me and my values IS hate speech.
Fine...flag me and see what they say...
I stand up to you, I'm sorry if you see that as hatred.
Just as you are entitled to your opinions, we are entitled to our opinions as well. We don't start entire threads complaining how people disagree with us though.
By that logic you are condemning a lot of those who agree with you as hateful. It seems to be a sport among those that back a liberal mindset to call everyone racist, I guess its much easier than actually thinking.
Nobody seems to be wanting to answer the question of why so many gays get by with accusing straight people of wanting to be gay.
Because it doesn't happen very often...
Not so. Happens a lot. Case in point---the other thread. I'm fed up with the innuendoes and accusations toward people like me and other conservatives. If people want to engage in sodomy and baby-killing, then I can't stop them. But I have EVERY right to speak my mind about it; and when they try to make it legal in the USA and shut down anyone who speaks the truth and the Truth, then I take huge exception to that invasion/harrassment against what's right. The moral backbone of American society is being hammered with all the hogwash. I'm fighting back, and I don't give a whit who wants to twist wrong trying to make it right. It will never be right and everyone knows it.
Hands off my country's moral basis!
So - how far do you want to go exactly? I know you think fire cleanses the soul.
What about slavery? I guess the liberals stopped that one for you. Are you interested in bringing good Christian values like slavery or segregation back?
It is legal...has been for decades...
The real shame is that you really have very little clue what you're talking about BOTH when it comes to this country's moral basis AND the Bible.
Your vitriol and hatred are hardly worth wasting the time and brain cells it takes to type to you.
Someday, hate-mongering, judgmental, anxiety-ridden people like you will no longer exist and the world will live in harmony. And whether you believe it or not--it is the Lord of the Bible who will make it so.
And guess what? When the time comes, He's going to have a whole lot less to say to gay people than He will to you and other hateful so-called Christians like you. Knowing better and doing anyway will be punished with many stripes.
I call that hate speech that you just attacked me with.
So you spew whatever trash you feel like and it is okay but when others point out that you are spewing trash that is hate?
I think you need to look up the definition of hate speech.
I really don't care. You don't seem to care when others point out how hateful you are. One day someone with more authority than myself will tell you. And you'll like it even less then.
No. I think he/she was saying that you will one day have to face your maker...
And when we do stand before him; he is not going to ask us how many good things that we think that we have done in this life.
I think that he is going to ask us what we still have in our pockets.
Are standing before him asking for love and forgiveness....
With our pockets full of hate and unforgiveness?
I think that we should consider our own baggage that we expect to carry with us. I'm not that worried about what you are carrying. Though I wish you well.
Haha! No, it's a promise, my dear Brenda.
One day, you will stand face to face with the Lord God Almighty, and he's going to be pissed that you couldn't find it in your heart to LOVE your brother, and that you spread this hatred in HIS name.
Now, I will readily admit that the very same thing is true for me-- there are plenty of things I will be held accountable for as well...but spreading the false doctrine and encouraging hatred won't be one of them.
I do Love my brother.
It's you and others who can't grasp the definition of Love, and attack others with your false concept of it.
brenda its republicans and dems alike that do not want this lunacy. it's the gays that have decided to choose the dem party. they have gone after our children(boyscouts)and last week got xbox to now start putting gays and bi's in their video games so they can bend the childrens thinking.that is so sad! they are like a virus. slowly steadily devouring the youth all the while claiming to be poor little victims.it truly is time to do something because society was trying to be nice since the 70's but it appears that these people have become self righteous, flipped the script and now somehow according to them we. . . are the ones that are morally incorrect ha ha ha ridiculous. . . .absolutely ridiculous!
Except that I think the gay agenda has been chosen by the Democratic Party as well as choosing it. In general, anyway.
...The Republican Party is the only one that I've seen which has a Platform that sticks up for traditional marriage.
Brenda - who coined the phrase heterophobic? i first saw it from you today now i see it in four other places each written after yours. so was it you?
Apparently it has been used before by a lot of people. http://www.google.com/search?q=heteroph … artPage=1;
I would never have guessed it.
Results 1 - 10 of about 304,000 for heterophobic.
I coined it as far as I know.
Figger I have the same right to as whoever coined the word homophobia.
But hey maybe it was spoken by many other people before me, I dunno! So I really can't take credit for it.
Who knows--maybe it'll make the dictionary line-up one of these days! That would be one small step toward re-aligning the dictionaries for America's posterity.
But now that I think of it, the definition was already pretty much defined long ago, by none other than the Prophets.
I've never seen a gay person accuse a straight person of wanting to be gay. I think you misunderstood the other thread.
He was pointing out that most people who are homophobic are gay ALREADY. But because of people like you, Conservatives, they are afraid to come out of the closet and join in with your gay bashing. Nowhere did it say homophobic people are straight.
You and she are confused.
If someone wants to "be gay", I'm sure they'll do so. That IS their choice.
Sure it is.
Nobody's forcing them to engage in a specific sexual activity. With the exception of instances of rape, of course. And the current trend at seducing young minds with the idea that homosexuality is A-ok.
Total unabashed GREED.
I mean hey I'm gonna wait and see how the libs respond to that very good question....
Well actually I am liberal but I think you have a very distorted perception of a liberal which I don't blame you for because the liberal views are being propagated by people who aren't so I get it but I just wanted you to know.
Being liberal doesn't mean that I cannot have Christian morals. To me it is about making my own choices that suit me in a way I am comfortable with. Not about making others change to make myself more comfortable.
I do actually agree with some conservative views but it doesn't make me conservative, it makes me liberal. And I like you Brenda, very much and I am not mad I just wanted to say and I don't think you are a hater.
Someone else posed the idea that being "liberal" simply means being free of bias....
I'm not sure that's right....
Liberal, in my conversation and in so many others', means being pro-abortion, pro-gay-rights, pro-socialism, and generally a free-for-all approach to behavior, anti-rules basically.
And I don't think a Christian CAN be liberal in those respects, at least not for long, because surely they'd soon realize their error....
I'm not mad either. Well, not at you. I'm mad at the liberal hogwash going on in my country.
THANKS for saying you don't think I'm a hater (meaning hater of persons), because you're right--I'm not. (I've been called that a lot; and it doesn't faze me, but it is good to hear someone be nice to me in that regard.)
And that is exactly where the 'hogwash' as you call it, comes from. Me and several other liberal friends of mine do vote pro-choice, and pro gay rights yet I, myself am pro-life and I am not gay and I don't think it is right to change a religiously found ceremony of marriage between man and woman to include man and man and woman and woman but they should be able to be life long partners and be afforded all the same rights as a traditional married couple under a new name, I thought 'union' worked just fine.
Being free of bias doesn't mean I don't or shouldn't have opinions or feelings suitable for myself, it means that I am not hear to take away peoples rights only that I am free to make my own choices and I want other people to be free to make theirs as well.
But just so you know, voting this way doesn't mean I wouldn't try to talk a woman out of getting an abortion but I wouldn't hate her if she did.
I know it is what some call condoning or insensitive or immoral but really, it is not my choice and I disagree with anyone who says that I would be just as guilty for allowing it. I think about what God said a lot and take heed to his insight about judgement and free will.
I know that it doesn't jive with other sisters and brothers but if God doesn't force you to do things good or bad then neither should I being trying to force things good or bad.
No, you are thinking of an anarchist...
Maybe so. Yes I see little difference between liberalism and anarchy.
That's why you fail to understand. From you're viewpoint we are all the same, against your religion, so no point trying to understand any of us. We're all just here to persecute you.
I see, you equate those who do not want any type of government at all with those who you say want government to control every aspect of their lives...
No, Brenda, it isn't always their choice. My cousin was gay. His parents were Christian and Conservatives. Because of their constant disapproval of homosexuality, he lived life as a straight man for 38 years before he finally couldn't take it anymore and came out of the closet. He never got married. He never had children. He was unhappy and he drank.
Now that he has finally gotten up the courage to come out of the closet, he is happy. You know what? I think you've gotten the definition of anti-gay wrong. You don't mean you're against homosexuality. You mean you're against happiness.
Your story isn't unique.
I know of people I also love who have similar stories.
But ya know what?-----that's something each person should deal with themselves. It's called being accountable for one's actions. It's called having self-control. It's called (in several cases that I know of) repentance and living for Christ by turning away from that lifestyle.
And, that's the bottom line. Your religions tells you to hate gay sexual activities. This has nothing to do with morals, ethics, or anything else other than religious dogma.
Yes, there are many similar stories. In every single story, one factor remains the same. Christian Conservatives made it obvious they thought homosexuality was wrong, therefore helping another human being (whom you are supposed to love) remain unhappy.
Does that not make you step back for even one second and think, "Hm, maybe my tactics here are wrong. Maybe I should practice what I preach and try to be more accepting. Maybe I should try being more open-minded. Maybe, just maybe, the world would be more harmonious if I just let people be happy during their time on Earth and let the Lord handle things the way he sees fit when we are called for judgment?"
After all, you're not God. Who are you to judge others? Let the Big Guy upstairs handle these issues and just allow others to be happy. That's what the Bible says to do anyway.
Brenda quote me where I said specifically that straight people want to be gay. Else stop making that claim.
Ugh. You are like a horrible train wreck that I can't just drive by without checking out, which I then regret because I can't erase the images from my mind.
I need better discipline! lol
And you haven't answer the question you were asked Brenda. What have gay people personally done to hurt you?
Yes! Finally, someone noticed my question to her. Since I answered hers, perhaps she can answer mine now.
Pani she also has not responded to my post. I guess it is easy to win a debate if you only choose to respond to the questions you think you know the answers to.
I suppose it WOULD be easy to win a debate that way. Sigh... I'd still like for her to answer my question though.
American's youth are being attacked within our schools and in many many arenas of life today. Seduction. Legalizing crap. Legalizing baby-killing at the whim of mothers who should know better or be taught better by those with influence.
And outright shoving that liberal agenda down America's throats.
Some of us don't like that. Many of us don't like it.
You still haven't answered my question. It seems that you are avoiding it by changing the subject constantly.
What has a gay person ever done to personally harm you in any way?
What you think is wrong is your opinion, you have the right to think anything you want, you can hate blacks, obama, gays, prochoice, anything you want. But thats your OPINION. Describe how you have the right to force others to live by what YOU think is moral?
Are you saying that your parenting has been so poor or absent that your children won't be able to recognize the liberal agenda for what it is and withstand the indoctrination?
In reply to the OP. It can be tough to accept sexual attraction to ones own sex- its not an avenue I would want to explore too much, myself. At the same time, every time a person refuses to accept the realities of being human, they become a little more dangerous. So it is worth examining homosexual elements in ones own psyche.
I have gay friends who are great people that I see every weekend, but I don't agree with alot of the hype.
I don't like it when people say stuff like everybody has a little bit of gay in them and all this stuff, and you get all this stuff like be 'open-minded' is it not open minded if you don't think sodomy is attractive?
I can see how to people of the same sex might love each other, but I am happy being me.
People can make what ever decisions they want as long as it doesn't affect me and I don't have it pushed on me.
Being against the gay agenda isn't trash.
The gay agenda is trash.
The only agenda here is yours. You think that because someone is different than you or believes differently that you have the right to spew hatred all over them.
What's interesting is that gays are real, unlike the gods who teach you they aren't.
I would say that gays are good people ,even her God teaches they aren't
I never really met a gay person that I didn't like, even when they were trying to get down my pants.
Apparently, according to Brenda, it has something to do with legalizing public anal sex and teaching schoolchildren that having anal sex in public is okay.
Don't forget the baby killing. Apparently gay people are somehow interested in baby-killing as well.
Well that would be upsetting. It's too bad for the lesbians though. They seem to have no way of getting in on the gay agenda.
I made a comment on here just now and it got buried straight away lol
The people who agree with her must not be up yet...I'm sure they will appear in no time...eh, sneako?
If Jesus was here I don't think he would hate anyone lol Didn't Jesus have a Hubpages account before, did anyone else see this lol
I respect the opinion of Ms Brenda as I respect others opinion as well,
But I can't understand this thread, its the same as what it should not do in the first place, post a thread which is lopsided, what can you get from a forum thread which is deductive, you have set your conclusions already -- only to be negated and usually discussions will gone awry
So you're saying that you should be able to say that gay people are wrong or an abomination or whatever, but they should not say that you are hateful and judgmental, am I getting that right?
Of course not, she is above reproach although judgmental..To her, once you say Christ is God you can do anything wrong you want to... This is the Christian idea of Grace.
While I can't speak to the idea of Christian grace in any sweeping way, I will say that in the case of this particular OP, there is hypocrisy on a grand scale. If I can call you a poo-poo face, you have every right to call me a doo-doo head. Fair's fair.
Soooo...How does this ban thing work? Will I suddenly get booted from the forum? How long does it take?
When will I know that HP has made their decision??
Truly no one has suffered under the cruel yolk of Hubpages like the poor heterosexual.
why do i have a feeling this is about to get ugly.......
The misuse of the suffix "phobia" is pretty childish in any case.
how did this forum go from talking about homosexuals phobia of heterosexuals to racism? i'm just curious.
No disrespect to anyone but why do we continue to have these type of threads? Goodness it certainly would be nice if everyone could just get along. Homophobic, Heterophobic I could not imagine living in fear of all of this, I certainly have more things to do besides having a panic attack this song says it perfectly! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XTSZ9TFk7A
I do believe she has abandoned the thread. Can't talk back to her because only she is allowed to give her opinion..
I have just got up here in sunny China What comes through all of this is the striking similarity between Brenda, TK/Sab oh, and now Padrino.
This got me thinking about how uninteresting it is to have manufactured conversations that can have no resolution, how much time can be wasted on only giving some little geek a giggle.
Are we gonna lose the spider? I love spiders, and I like this one quite a lot!
I don't see why the obsession with visualizing what 'alternative lifestyle' people do in the bedroom, is any business of ours. I would rather celebrate that fact their Souls are happy.
This is why prayer in schools was banned. Many did not want religion waved in front of their child's nose as as if was a seal of approval.
Has the story changed over time? It used to be because they didn't want their children to participate or be forced to pray.
There has never only been one reason for this most excellent ruling. Don't tell me you've never heard of separation between church and state!
Separation of church and state is not in the constitution. Search it out.
I think in order to find out the truth, one must find out what type of person Madeline O'hare was. I also wonder who may have hired her to do what she did.
I made no mention of it being in the constitution. It will come as no surprise to you that many in this country are not religious. Why would we want our children to have to listen to cult chantings of any sort? This has absolutely nothing to do with getting an education.
"All men are created equal" means a great deal to me. This means I do not have to listen to anyone's beliefs, whether they concern real or imagined deities. I'm glad you have the same right. Do you think I deserve this right?
You are deserving of that right yes, but why take away rights of others just so you can say you have your rights? They don't have to listen to any of it.
Do you really think it is only about prayer?
Are you saying the students are prohibited from praying silently? As far as I know, they can pray silently as much as they like in school. What rights have they lost? And no, I don't think it is just about prayer. It is about keeping religion out of places it has no business being.
Religion has long retarded science and knowledge by teaching myths and hearsay. "The world is flat."
And where would you suppose God should keep Himself?
You calling it all myths and lies is simply an opinion of oyurs, correct?
The world is flat? Not sure where you got that. Of course things written can be misconstrued even by geniuses.
You keep your god at your house and there will be no problems. If your god will personally make it known to the school system he would like prayers to him allowed in school, I feel sure they will comply, and so will I.
And yes, this is my opinion. Myths and hearsay are things which cannot be proven, such as your beliefs.
Some astronomers were imprisoned or threatened with imprisonment for saying the earth was round. It went against church teachings as being heretical. You did not know this?
Please address my silent prayer observations, I would like to hear your take on this.
Truthfully on the silent prayer, I cannot recall anywhere in the Bible where we should pray silently. Of course I do not know every word of the Bible and it is possible that I am wrong about it.
Let me ask you this. Does the name Jesus bother you?
But what is wrong with praying silently? Why must you offend others with your prayer, and it is offensive to some people whether you admit it or not.
I've yet to hear one answer about silent prayer from your ilk which makes any sense whatsoever. Are you afraid god can't hear you, or is it simply because it make you feel better than the doomed sinners around you?
The name Jesus bothers me not at all. I knew a guy named Jesus one time. I think he was an illegal alien, but I'm not sure. Okay dude, nothing special.
So if God requires verbal conversations or prayersm then it offends you?
Lord, I pray that you open the eyes of Randy Godwin, in Jesus name, Amen.
Okay, and I'll ask my imaginary god to make all of your descendants be born naked. Now we'll see whose god is more powerful.
Those like you only want to pray aloud so others can see how pious you are. I equate you with the Mormon priest who blathered endlessly about his goodness. As some have stated before, you know you are insulting an unbeliever when you tell them you are praying for them. You are saying you are right because you say so, not god. I find it hard to believe any omnipotent being would choose many of those claiming to speak for him. If he did, then I would have less respect for him than I do now.
Actually, I only posted that to see if it offended you. I honestly do not know why you were offended.
I did find one reference in the Bible where someone prayed silently. There may be a few more even. Jesus prayed aloud many times. We are suppose to be like Christ. We pray aloud, at least I do.
What about the music that chbildren are forced to listen to?
I wasn't offended, Sir Dent. I live in the Bible Belt, south Georgia, in fact. I've been exposed to many such insults in my long lifetime. Some people need an imaginary god to make them be good folks, while others try to do good because they care for their fellow man. We all have our own reasons. I don't want to decide for you and you should not expect to decide for me.
But as I said before, there are always those who imagine they know what's best for everyone else.
One thing you do have wrong. It is not my way nor my opinion about what is good for you or anyone else. I am not deciding for you. That is your job.
You called it an insult for me to say I am praying for you, when you in fact believe God to be a myth and a lie. So really in your own mind I am just wasting my time anyway doing something that cannot accomplish anything at all.
The insult is you pretending you are doing me a favor. By praying for me you insinuate you are more enlightened than I about reality.
If I said "I hope your ignorance and stupid sense of superstitious illogical religious idiocy disappears" this would be insulting to you,I would think. This is essentially what you are doing by telling me you are praying for me. Why you and many others cannot see this clearly is an enigma to me.
Well, just so you know, I have never prayed for you or any other atheist I have met on HubPages.
We are told that we are stupid and ignorant on a daily basis here. If not by you there are many others who do. I see no point in continuing this particular discussion. I will reply if there is something else you want to say or mention but it will be in the morning.
Good night everyone.
Thank you, Sir Dent. I appreciate your candor and I will not pray for you to believe as I do either. I think you are neither stupid nor ignorant and I wish for you to believe whatever makes you happy.
But decide just for yourself, as you do not have the right or qualifications to decide for anyone else. Nor do you have the right to attempt to influence anyone's beliefs. Sorry, not your job.
I wont break into a lesson on constitutional law and judicial interpretation..
but if one was to 'search it out' ...they wouldnt have to go very far
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
Actually it is because the constitution has seperation of church and state.
Please define "church" as as it's defined in that part of the Constitution. Or is it even there?
And does that mean an organized Church?
And does that reference to "Church" (I believe it actually says "religion"?) equate to basic morality?
If you'll search this and think on it, Hokey, you may be able to see what was REALLY meant by that part of the Constitution.
And what did it really mean Brenda?
All I can say is - thank goodness people like you are not in a position of power any longer.
Can any one say "Burn The Witch!!!"
I hate the church and I hate the actions of homesexuals. Everyone I've ever known, especially in college so they are educated, they make fun of gay people and are repulsed by what they do. That is my liberal view on the matter and within little groups of friends I think most normal people are repulsed by the actions of gay people, but those opinions do not leave that close knit circle of friends, because they'll be lynched by whoever the hell is making the rules. Something clearly went wrong with our evolution along the way. The worst thing is that these people are starting to adopt children. What kind of negative impact will that have on a child's life?
I'm confused. You hate what specific church, and how is being against homosexuality a "liberal view on the matter"?
But I'm with ya on the hating the actions of homosexuals.
And it wasn't anything that went wrong with evolution. It's high rebellion against the laws of God and of nature.
It will have a very negative impact on kids' lives. But the liberal agenda cares NOTHING about kids. They'd as soon kill 'em as look at 'em; that's evident by their support of abortion.
Sorry, I hate the catholic church, that which I was forced into before I could even speak, and that which doesn't care about the fact that it's priests have raped thousands of children.
When I say 'my liberal view' I mean a view that is free from influence, therefore unbiased, simply based on the facts of the matter. I'm not talking about politics or anything.
Shows you how times change. The spirit of society used to be more god friendly as in most homes had a cross in the living room. If you look at early tv you will see an innocence about morals as opposed to todays movies which all flaunt naked skin for ratings. Just because society has gone in the direction of cain doesn't make things better, it just makes things convenient - for now but in the short span of life, in the end, will it be worth it? Ya gotta ask yourself before the car hits the wall at 60miles an hour.
Yep, all the husbands and wives slept in separate beds and everyone was white on TV. Cigarette commercials on every ad break and beer too. No blacks in the white schools and a chicken in every pot. Nothing like the good old days.
just thinking the same... We have some of the most soundly based children's shows the world has ever seen, entertaining kids, teaching them about love. I don't think the world is a bad place, and getting worse either.
We do have to accommodate a lot more people and ideas though.
I blame the Socialists...
and the perverts..
I was going to sleep, can you help struggling 911 in this thread? I know you know a bit on marketing!
Sorry Faybe, I don't know much about getting re-instated with adsense.
I do know a bit about parenting though, and feel this person's priorities are atrocious!
I don't think people are more "sinful", I think we're the same as we ever were, we're just alot more honest about now. Plus women have rights and slavery is illegal, but shoot, who's counting that.
If I were a homosexual I would be scared of hetrosexuals too, They're allover the place, and they're spreading like wild fire.
I like you man
SO let me get this right. You, Ms. Brenda, are sick of people attacking you personally for you're views. Liberal sodomites, to be specific.
Now, I have a question. If you disagree with this.. injustice is what we'll call it.... Then what about all the Homosexuals who get physically and verbally abused for what they believe? Where is their justice?
You want freedom of speech And thats great. What you don't seem to grasp is that That freedom isn't only for you. It's for everyone. And like it or not, That's the way the world is.
People attack others for their views everyday. And whether or not you do it isn't the point. The point is everyone has a right to an opinion, yourself included. With saying that, I will say no more. To save the ''innocent school children''.
When all the fighting about what's right and wrong is done, we have to begin the work of doing something good. Too bad that couldn't have been done much earlier.
Also for what it's worth, homos don't appear to be taking over the world because there certainly isn't a lack of babies being born, whether wanted or unwanted.
Misunderstanding and fear, combined with a lack of wanting to listen to each other usually cause such rifts between any two groups of people in society.
Who really wants to listen?
I forgot the music thing. I do not understand which music you are referring to.
Aren't Christians supposed to be non-judgmental of others, and isn't judgment reserved for only God?
Oh Skyfire, I've read the bible, several times. I lived with an abusive religious nut in Florida that belonged to some freaking cult church. I got out before I got brainwashed.
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye." -- Matthew 7:1-5
It is hypocritical judgment that this Scripture condemns.
I think all too often people like to throw stones at those who are different without ever looking at themselves.
And then again, there are those people who just like to stir the stinky pot.
A Christian's "brother" or "sister" is another Believer, not unrepentant deliberate sinners who try to hit Believers over the head with both the liberal agenda and their Bibles (if those unrepentants even have a Bible).
Jesus said in both Mark 3 and Matthew 13 that whoever does the will of His Father was His (Spiritually) brother, and sister, and mother, (and therefore children of God).
Others are not.
I am unrepentant. But I keep a bible.
It is ideal for bumping bible thumpers on the head to attempt bringing then forward in to this century without the fairies and stuff.
What can I say except that I do disagree of course.
I think it IS your choice to take a stand (both Biblically and politically) against what you believe is wrong. Give the devil an inch and he'll take a mile, and people pay for it with their souls, even.
....I keep remembering John the Baptist who had the nerve to tell the King that he was doing wrong. John paid for it with his life. But he saved his soul! The blood of the King was not required at his hands, because he warned him!
Who these days, even Christians, are willing to speak up at the cost of possibly their lives?? ....I see very few. All the famous Pastors in the public eye have dropped the ball, stepped down from their watchtowers, fearful of the liberal agenda's axe fallin' on them....
and the worst thing is that many of them are simply fearful they'll lose popularity or money....
Well, I think it is a narrow minded approach but it is yours and I see what you are getting at, thus I did add that it doesn't mean I wouldn't try to talk someone out of it and tell them as a friend what I think but if they disagree, then I cannot stop them because they have to live and die with the consequences.
The other forgotten clause to abortions and why I vote pro-choice is because if it isn't allowed then some woman take it upon themselves to get them anyways in unsterilized facilities or shall I give you a very horrid image... a coat hanger and they do it themselves.
Maybe you would feel then that they deserved to die from infections because what they were doing was wrong but most of them are children doing this to themselves.
If my daughter did this to herself because she couldn't at least go to a doctor, then I would lose twice and it would break my heart because I cannot say that I love both the same, because I don't love the one I have never met more than my own daughter.
Maybe it is the mother in me, maybe I would go to hell for it, I don't know but I would never allow something that preventable to happen to my own kid. Because you and I and everyone else knows that 'we' don't have control over our kids when they are not within our reach.
We can holler, scream, teach, forbid, condemn all we want to but it will not change a persons will from doing what they feel must be done. You just can't and those are the hard cold facts of life that I am sure God is very aware of.
Yes, like those who support health care so those who can't afford it can have treatment. And believing others have the right to live their lives as they choose fit.
Don't even begin to think that you know or understand my feelings and morals and beliefs... Not everyone is like you and fits into a neat little tidy box...
What makes you think I fit into a neat little tidy box?
..There are many things I had to make a choice about.
I had to MAKE my life fit into the box.
The box of living according to moral conscience.
Don't you think that if I was only concerned with my personal "pursuit of happiness", I'd be a different person?
You can bet I would.
Who here is only concerned with their own personal pursuit of happiness? I certainly am not. I actually want society to be a more accepting and loving place in which we look out for our fellow citizens.
Like Sandra said, you can be liberal but have some non-liberal beliefs. Not everyone believes the same things about everything.
And you are thinking of libertines...most people are not like that.
Who's only concerned with personal pursuit?
The heterophobes in society, for one example, including "bisexuals".
That is one aspect of their lives. Bisexuals do not just sleep with anyone indiscriminately. They have relationships with men and women, at different times.
You can't speak for anyone else but yourself in know what motivates people.
One doesn't have to always personally experience something in order to know if it's right or wrong.
There are parameters for right and wrong.
Wrong thinking is always based on selfishness.
Everything is black and white in your world isn't it?
There ya go assuming.
No, everything isn't that way at all in my world.
But there ARE definite rights and wrongs in it, as well as in the entire world. From there, I can only make decisions to the best of my ability. But the definites HAVE to remain in place; otherwise, I'm lost. As is anyone else.
I thought "wrong thinking" was very often caused by ignorance and lack of knowledge about certain things.
Not so much. Wrong thinking -highlight thinking. Consciousness of right/wrong is not the problem. Consciousness IS the problem.
Any true believer will tell you that, else they are propagandists for the law of sin and death, of which they are quite familiar.
Faith-Grace is beyond needing and needing to know the difference.
This is that childlike faith. Belief without question. No question, no problem and hence no need for consequence or judgment for knowing right/wrong aka sin.
- we now return you to the banter -
I don't quite get your meaning.
But I do know that selfishness, prideful greed, is where original sin came from. Satan started it. 1/3 of the other angels followed it. Mankind fell into temptation of it. And only God/Jesus brought the redemption for it.
and exactly how do you know this?
the sin of adam ( mankind ) was accepting something less than was given to him, by the Creator -Elohim. The sin wasn't disobedience, sin came before that moment.
man didn't fall into temptation he became THAT temptation.
it is in the book -read it again.
do you know Lucifer's sin? do you also know that he was defeated - done finished at the moment Y`shua entered Sheol? Yet millions of you are seeking him out and blaming him for your own HaSatan. It is your own conscious seared that brings charges against you in the heavens. For that adversary you blame was brought to nothing.
Sort of like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is "childlike faith." But most of the time we grow up and realize the illusion or delusion, whichever you prefer, is just that. Some never do!
I always pictured Jesus just walking around talking to his desciples and when a crowd gathered he talked louder, that they could hear. I do not recall any stories that he played the Cary Nations routine.
The only time that he did he was in the temple.
It is too bad that the forums can't be like that.
I'm with Sandra on the rights for the woman to choose on the abortion isue. That is between her and her God.
Is it better to make the young Girl have the baby and then neglect, or aduse the child while they live in poverty because she had to cut her education short to take care of a baby that she did not want.
We should; instead of judging anyone; think to our selves, except for the grace of God that could be me.
I hope you're kidding.
There's been immense help for young women in those situations, for a very long time. So your scenarios are NO excuse for baby-killing.
The way you talk in here is always in black and white, no grey.
The fact that gay people exist does not affect my life in any way, shape or form. It is not up to me to say they do not have the right to live their lives they way they do. Women used to be expected to get married and have children and not vote and not work. Times change, society evolves. The more we understand about human psychology, the less we can control how people live their lives.
I agree UW the more the world recognises women the further we will progress too.
How does society "evolve"?
There is no evolution.
Matter of fact, mankind has come full-circle, right back to the days of Sodom.
Lol, there is no evolution ? and proof for your claim ?
For starters, there's a very-proudly "Officially...perverted" thread around here that illustrates it quite well.
Not illustrated well enough for you to understand, though!
A child could understand its wicked intent, since it's so blatantly full of crap.
Only if one is too uneducated to understand it! What christian denomination controls your mind?
I was raised Separate Baptist, but have visited different denominations.
I believe the Bible is self-explanatory for the most part for a Christian who reads it with Spiritual eyes; and the parts that need studied are easily reconciled in the same way.
As far as influence, everyone has a conscience they should go by.
Most Churches I've been to, or been a member of, are based on solid Biblical teachings, although anyone can be in error at times. And they have a burden for lost souls, which is the MAIN reason for Churches, or should be.
And I've been to churches that were ...just wrong in their focus too.
One of them, not too long ago, was where the Pastor spoke racial crap and unnecessary insulting things in the middle of an otherwise-very-good message. I haven't been back to that one. That kind of preaching is a tool of the devil.
So this is what makes it so easy for you? You only have to follow the teachings you see worthy in your spiritual eyes and ignore the rest?
Who gets to decide what is parts are worthy?
No. You took that wrong, or maybe I didn't say it correctly; sorry.
I mean that the things a Christian doesn't understand at first can, with study and prayer and the common sense the good Lord gave us, be understood, if not literally at least Spiritually.
So a thread or some blog explains your proof ? No wonder you prefer Kristian & islam funded creationism.
Goodnight...I think I would have more luck talking to my cat...
I sometimes talk to both my cats.
I think they're Christian kitties. I caught one of 'em sittin' on my Bible....
Of course you would, unless it was a "christian kitty." There's never a lion around when ya need one!LOL
Then we might as well throw out all our legal system. Even the laws against theft, rape, assault, murder....
Don't tell me a community or nation can't legislate morality, Jerami. It's done every day via those laws I just mentioned, and others. And ergo don't tell me we cannot "impose morals" upon anyone according to God's Laws, as well as those mentioned.
This is a good response. Certainly society, via its laws, should impose certain morals, or ethical standards, on those who would not follow them otherwise. That is true. In fact, I find the whole abortion thing a little dubious (ie, I think there might be an argument for it being morally wrong), and I am in general what you would call a liberal! (I guess).
But you yourself said elsewhere that a don't ask don't tell policy on homosexuality is how you would approach the topic if you were governing.
Beyond this, you cannot muzzle people, gays included, and forbid them from participating in public discourse. This is a PRIMARY AMERICAN VALUE... FREEDOM OF SPEECH. This, beyond perhaps all other things, is what makes America different from Communist or Fascist countries... freedom to speak out, freedom of debate, freedom of association, and freedom of the press. Without these things we are all doomed. And not in the way you usually think about... instead, here, now, on earth.
I was speaking on a personal level.
Yes we can vote. We can express our opinions. But we can not impose our morals upon anyone else.
The proabition should have taught us something. Ya caint legislate against stupid.
We can make little impact upon the world until we clean our own house first. Jesus said that he came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
He was attempting to clean his own house, he didn't seem to be that intrested in the outside world at that time.
If he had been able to do that it would have been a bright example for the rest of the world. And things would be diffrent.
If "everyone would" worry about their own deamons each and every one of us; the world would be a much better place.
Matter of fact, our dear President just got through "imposing" his own personal morals (or non-morals) upon the American people, from the time he got into Office.
...Man's laws and God's laws have always gone hand in hand (when they're put in place right in a nation.)
When man's laws attempt to supercede God's Laws, it's time to be a John the Baptist. Not an ostrich with its head in the sand.
Part of the freedom of public discourse should, of course, have boundaries.
For instance, libs may call freedom of expression the right to walk around naked in public. But there are innocent children who also have the right to be in public. So adult accountability/responsibility is called for there.
EVERYBODY cannot have total "freedom" at the same time!
Ergo there MUST BE moral ground rules.
The liberal agenda of today in America is becoming very nasty, having little or no accountability.
Well....my main intent isn't whether or not America is doomed "here on earth"!
It profits nothing for a man to gain the whole world, yet lose his soul....
Believe it or not I agree with the spirit of what you have written here. I also agree, I think, that in many ways there is a "liberal" bias to modern American mainstream culture (though I do NOT extend this to the news... but that's a different topic. Don't forget ALL of the mainstream networks called a Bush victory over Gore.... But I digress.)
From that point of view your perspective makes sense (sort of). In other words, if I was a Christian conservative, I would probably be asking, like you, why (generally) secular, liberal social norms should be spread through America and not, say, Christian conservatve norms?...
...In short, who decides? To be clear, as I am sure you know, in general I SUPPORT liberal norms and standards (not as many as perhaps you might think, but in general). But the question as to why these norms should hold sway over a different set of norms is a good one.
I appreciate that response.
Along those same lines, where do you think that mainstream liberal influence started, or gained ground?
I imagine it is a complex sociological question, but presumably a short answer is during the nineteen sixties. I wasn't around then , but perhaps we can blame it on the Beatles , or Elvis... Not sure I'm qualified, overall, to answer though
you imply that that nudity is wrong and harmful, is the form that your creator made not perfect and worthy of viewing ?
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