The USA Is Bankrupt!

1. 56

   leebertteaposted 14 years ago

   http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-1 … ikoff.html
   
   It can't get any more plain than this. Funny but it seems most people in America know this already. The only ones that don't know are the ones running the show. People voted for change, but they didn't think the change they voted for would be worse then what they had. America is in real need of greater revenues, much greater revenues, the kind that can only be generated by robust economic activity, the kind of activity that only the private sector can generate if they are encouraged by the right regulations to do so. This administration has done everything possible to constrain the free market and America can no longer afford to put up with them.

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      lender3212000posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      While it's true that we need more revenue, what we really need to do is cut down on the useless spending until the economy can stabilize. I agree that the current administration doesn't seem to be making the connection between supporting business and increased tax revenues. The idealistic view that the government can just provide everyone with what they need in terms of health care, housing, and on and on may sound great but it just doesn't work out in practice. All of these programs cost money and once they run out of ways to cook the books, we're going to learn the hard way that  running a country isn't like pre-school sports where "everyone wins". This is going to sound harsh but this country was made great on the back of capitalism and that means there will be winners and losers. We'll all be better off in the long run if we let the system operate the way it was designed. Yes, that means that people who aren't willing to work and take responsibility for themselves will be left behind. I don't know about the rest of you but I'll take that over bringing down everyone while we chase an unrealistic ideal that history has proven is not economically feasible.

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   2. 61

      jessicababelposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What's your point? We've carried a large debt for the entire life of our country. Most countries have large debts to other countries. It's just the way the global economy works.

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      1. 56

         leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Trees don't grow into space. The point is that the current trends can not be sustained, that something will have to give and when it does the effects on society could be catastrophic at worst.

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   3. 67

      steve8millerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah we need to pull down taxes from the rich once and for all. It is time that they contribute to America. I know they do not consider themselves American. However we have given the Corporations all the breaks here in America for times like this. Well big corporations the time is here, where is that give us what we want and we will contribute to America. Where is that promise. Or are we saying we just give the corporations what they want, when they want so a few lobbyist can make some politicians "Republicans" Money. Well Republicans do you see what you have done, do you see how they are helping America. They are complaining about tax increases they paid in the 90's. During booming economic times. As well the big corporations here in America and the Republicans are mad they can no longer "HIDE TAXES FROM AMERICA" They complained about the Tax havens so the big corporations can not cheat the IRS. If we as American citizens cheat the IRS we have to pay, we get in trouble. However if you are rich you can hide anything you want from the IRS. Why would the Republicans want to block jobs to the people teachers, police, fire dept, ect. The Republicans wanted to block these jobs in order to continue to hide the tax havens over seas. Hide money to help America over seas, talk about greedy and insane. Why do we continue to help these rich corporations again, why? So they can play economic terrorism here in America. It is sick. 2 republicans voted for this bill to save teachers and make the corporations pay taxes to help America. 2 Republicans sad day for America. We are lucky there is a party in control that does the right thing.
      
      On that note vote for the Dems do not let the republicans kill America on the election coming up. I know it may seem no one in their right mind would vote for any republican, however they will. So get out and vote for the Democrats. That is the only way we are going to have progress in this country. If the republicans take power, America will stall out and wreck. Not good thing to do is stall up America in times such as these. The government needs to take the proper action to turn this whole thing around. The president has already done a lot to help. However the atheist party of the Nazis I mean republicans lol j/k I do not play those games that is a joke because that is what they project on the Dems right now. Not the games to play when America is bankrupt. Let us get them out of this country, let us push back the republican party once and for all. They hinder America they do not help it. Let the independents and the Democrats run this country once and for all.
      
      P.S this is no debate, these are facts. I do not debate facts, if you are a Republican feel free to put up that BIG "Red Herring" people will stare you can distract the mindless you are good at that. However I will not debate you, as I do not debate facts. The facts Democrats are helping America, while every single action from the Republicans are hurting America. Fact no debate and we all "who are not brainwashed / deceived" know it as fact. For those who agree. Here here off with the Republican Party once and for all. lol

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         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I can certainly understand not wanting to debate those 'facts'

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   4. 59

      Elpasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Explain this to me "like I'm a five year old".  The Country became bankrupt when Reagan came into office and started to deregulate companies and banks, Right? We became bankrupt with the first phony war in Grenada, Right? We became bankrupt when the last Bush robbed the treasury for big business, Right?
      And now you're telling me that our Country is bankrupt because of the President in office less than a year is the reason our country is broke?

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         Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "Explain this to me "like I'm a five year old".
         
         Ok
         
         "The Country became bankrupt when Reagan came into office and started to deregulate companies and banks, Right?"
         
         Wrong.
         
         "We became bankrupt with the first phony war in Grenada, Right?"
         
         Phony war? The citizens of Grenada refer to that action as their Thanksgiving. So, wrong again.
         
         "We became bankrupt when the last Bush robbed the treasury for big business, Right?"
         
         Make up your mind did we become bankrupt under Reagan or Bush?
         
         "And now you're telling me that our Country is bankrupt because of the President in office less than a year is the reason our country is broke?"
         
         Hmmm, less than a year? You know Bush did spend a lot of money while he was in office, and the current moron in chief voted yea for every Bush proposal while in the Senate.
         
         I hope that has helped you to see your mistakes.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The funnier thing is that the Country was broke before either one of those Presidents mentioned were ever born.

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2. 66

   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   How did you just find this out?!

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   1. 56

      leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh it's really common knowledge, but this article references a report by the IMF that has reached the same conclusion. It's not Parisian any longer, it's fact and the notion that government can stimulate and spend us into prosperity is beyond ridiculous and borders on economic terrorism.

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         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Here's the other fact, our government doesn't pay attention.  They're thinking about another stimulus.

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         1. 56

            leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Didn't they just pass another stimulus? The 26.1 billion dollar bill to save teachers, police and fire fighters from losing their jobs.
            
            What I don't understand is why not lay them off and let them collect unemployment because according to Pelosi, unemployment benefits are the best way to stimulate the economy and it creates jobs!
            
            www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAhmYKlsWW4
            
            You just can't make this s**t up!

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         2. 63

            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            If that does happen, we'll see homelessness like we've never seen it before. This year we'll top over a million home foreclosures, and I'm edging closer to that list each day.
            
            The government stimulated business, not the consumer. And the it's the consumer who's bailing out business, being robbed so that we can't even support business as we used to. That and the trust in business models these days is at an all-time low.
            
            Predatory business practice is rampant everywhere. Government intervention in behalf of business only enables business to continue to become more predatory.

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3. 60

   Richard Craigposted 14 years ago

   It's the same with England.  We're probably worse though because we sell our businesses to foreign countries then buy back the products with huge taxes mounted on top.  Makes no sense to me.

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4. 72

   Reality Bytesposted 14 years ago

   The United states has been bankrupt since the Civil War, when it put its citizens up for collateral to international financiers.

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      William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      LOL.

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      1. 72

         Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         I am sure you must know different.
         
         The National Debt uses the United States Citizens as collatteral.
         
         Its ability to tax the population is what hols up the entire corporation.
         
         The UNITED STATES is a corporation and its citizens are Property.
         Being an entity only ten square miles the Corporation has been trying to crush the State's rights ever since.

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5. 96

   wildernessposted 14 years ago

   You're right, of course - the US is bankrupt and has been for some time.
   
   The answer is not, however, increased revenues - we have become a nation of people living off their entitlements instead of their work.  Instead of paying for necessary items such as national defense and infrastructure we give the money away to promote "good will" and political votes while building entertainment for the masses.
   
   Nor is the answer more tax deductions for businesses that politicians find will benefit them either directly or indirectly through more votes.  If a business can make it on their own they will do so, but if it can't, then let it fail instead of propping it up with tax dollars for the owners.

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6. 76

   Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

   I hope they loosen up some gun laws so I can stockpile enough to stave off the looters when the Sh*t-storm hits.

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7. 72

   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   The United States has been Bankrupt for almost 100 years now. It's unfortunate that it is not common knowledge or not paid enough attention too for so long.
   
   Simply goes to show how foolish the public is about their own awareness of how bad things truly are in America.

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   1. 81

      Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why do we always blame the American Public when the blame for lack of information belongs to the ones in charge?

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      1. 56

         leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hello my friend!
         
         I think it's time to hold those we trusted, accountable. They should be in jail for what they have done, and continue to do!

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            lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Do you include the ones from 2000-2008, or do you just start now?

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You keep thinking that. A prime example of the level of awareness of the individual. Thank you for showing it.

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         1. 81

            Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well, seeing as how I'm not there, in Washington, overseeing what's going on, I do believe it's up to those in charge to keep me informed of the truth.  I know I can't trust the newspapers or TV news programs...all they want to talk about is Bristol Palin and Levi whateverhisnameis running for Mayor.

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            1. 66

               Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Nah, this is your own responsibility to keep yourself informed.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you Misha. At least I don't have to say it now.

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               2. 81

                  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  BS.  Can't help it, but that is total BS.  I can't afford to go to Washington and watch what the Government is doing.  So, it's my fault that I don't know?  You do realize the Government puts our press releases, right?  The only problem with that is what's included in the press release isn't important info!   The Government doesn't have a problem telling the people what the First Lady wore to dinner last night when Paul McCartney was there...even though it was televised and someone who's knowledgeable of fashion could have done the same thing....

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                  1. 63

                     Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     It's true we can't know everything, because we are removed. However, in the end we are either victims for not knowing, or we get the facts and start making a difference. We elect representative to protect our interests, but the truth is they represent their own interests in most cases. It's nightmarish at best.
                     
                     I agree with Lee that in order for the press to get the "ins" they need, they have to lick the feet of the White House and Washington. It's loaded no matter which direction you look at it. Preaching of change in 2008 was enough to "inspire" people to vote. But the reality is that Washington is a brothel of power and money, and that is what rules governments. No president can overcome the gravity and seduction of those two powers. It's suicide to attempt it. So the best anyone can do is walk in, slay people, and try to set new rules.
                     
                     Obama's rules are making him a very unpopular president. He doesn't have the power to overcome the dragon of money and power, either. And I'm not sure that if he did that it would necessarily be a good thing.

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                        Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank Daniel for setting it straight.  The only problem is when gathering your own facts, how are you to know whether or not your sources are honest?  How are you to know whether or not your sources are actually informing you of what you want to know, rather than informing you of what they want you to know?
                        
                        What I'm saying is, it's a mess.

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                           Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I couldn't agree with you more. There are no easy answers. But putting blame on everything/everyone else just makes us all victims. Victims don't do a lot to empower themselves. So, I do understand exactly what you're saying, I get that. But there has to be a point where we are willing to take responsibility back for our own well-being, including those who represent us. It's a mess to be sure. I don't have any answers, really, just observations.

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                              Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              What I'm hearing, from you, is that I didn't state my position very well.  That's okay, I'm able to learn.

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                     Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Poor thing...

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                        Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        lol, I think you missed the point Misha. 
                        
                        I gave up on following Politics years ago when I couldn't find the important information I was looking  for (before the internet) and am not too sure I want to get back into it.
                         
                        To me it seems pointless...the Government is going to do what it wants, regardless.  The people are going to do what they want, regardless.  Nothing is going to change, so why bother? 
                        
                        For me, it makes more sense for me to live my life the way I choose and say "To h@ll with those who think they're in charge of me!!"

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                           Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           All this does not take away your responsibility to keep yourself informed in what is going on around you, including what those that DO control your life (whether you admit it or not) are doing, even though they make every effort to delude and distract you. It is really not that hard, once you understand the basic principles. You can start here: http://mises.org/

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                              Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Thanks Misha, but I've determined, for a second time in my life, that it's pointless to try and understand Politics and Government when all they do is cover up the truth through deception, manipulation, lies, and a genuine lack of honest communication.  No matter what anyone says, the blame for these actions doesn't belong to the people, but, unfortunately, the future does depend on the people to try and fix what can't be fixed.
                              
                              As I said, above, the Government is going to do what it wants, regardless.  The people are going to do what they want, regardless.  Nothing is going to change, so why bother? 
                              
                              I'm not a victim, Misha, but I'm also not a puppet.  I choose to live my own life as I choose because I know what I want.  The government isn't going to hurt me.  Who cares about taxes?  It's only money - all I need is enough to get by, to sustain my life and let me tell ya.  It aint much more than minimum wage!
                              
                              (this doesn't mean I don't still have opinions about whats wrong with the world or country, or, even, that I wouldn't like to earn more money....but, honestly?  I'm happy without it so why push for it?)

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                                 Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 LOL You put so much in one post it's not even answerable in the forum post format I think. I disagree with you on many accounts, and I will just leave it as it is. You are not going to change your mind because of what I say here anyway. Even though I think I see where you are wrong, every person needs to learn their own lessons.

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                                    Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    lol, um, okay.  Too much info to be answerable?  Guess that's a new one for me.
                                    
                                    Anyway, now you got the idea.   I'm not going to change my mind.  I've more important things to do than fight a losing battle over what the government does or doesn't do.
                                    
                                    But, remember, that wont prevent me from criticizing their behavior, or should I say lack of (ethical) behavior....

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                           Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           if you believe that "the government will do what it wants to regardless", then you need to start voting libertarian!

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                              Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Please support your argument and explain yourself.  lol 
                              
                              Thanks.

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8. 0

   klarawieckposted 14 years ago

   Impossible! Nonsense! We just need to go rob Bush!

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      leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you want to rob someone, rob George Soros!

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Rob Bush? Sure, turn everyone else into what the politicians are. Great plan.

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         klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Don't you roll eyes at me Cagsil!

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9. 56

   leebertteaposted 14 years ago

   Forgive him, he's cursed with omniscience.

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10. 56

    leebertteaposted 14 years ago

    To your point, it is the job of the press to ask the tough questions and to report on what the government is doing. We can't expect the government to be truthful or forthcoming.
    
    The problem today is that the press is now the lap dog of government. It does as it's told.

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       Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Exactly!  Makes it much more difficult to keep yourself informed of the true happenings in Government.

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       lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Does that include Fox?? Or do they have another master? I think they do.

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       Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "The problem today is that the press is now the lap dog of government. It does as it's told." Since when? Serious question. When did this become the situation.

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          Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          luckily Wikileaks is doing their job for them.

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11. 58

    William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago

    I don't necessarily agree with everything in the OP.. but I do see serious trouble ahead for the US, financially, socially, environmentally....
    
    The solution is for normal folks to step outside of the system, and get together to help each other.  Washington won't save us from anything - and neither will the corporations. 
    
    Right now we are in a major recession, and people are scared and angry.  That's why everyone is pointing fingers.  It's the democrats!  No, it's the Republitards!  No, it's the evil government, let's let the magic free market fix everything!  No, actually it's the illegal immigrants to blame for everything!  Blah blah blahdi blah and on and on. 
    
    The truth is, it's the powerful looking after their own interests, at the expense of everyone else.  That cuts across party lines, racial, religious, and ethnic lines.

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    1. 72

       Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Now this is Truth!!!!

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12. 66

    Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

    Bottom line the USA became bankrupt under a Dummycrat President and a Dummycrat Senate and a Dummycrat House.  Three strikes, you're all out come November!

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    1. 58

       William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I think Reagan gets the honor actually.

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          Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          The IMF just told us that the US is bankrupt and now you're saying that Reagan did it, the one who helped the economy create a lot of jobs that Reagan?  Is there no end to the spin?

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             William R. Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             So when Reagan triples the national debt to create jobs it's ok?

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                Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Well it's not as bad as during FDRs time whe he increased debt sixteenfold and didn't create as many private jobs

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                Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Anytime a conservative government engages in deficit spending, it's all sunshine and roses, especially if the deficit spending is on stuff that explodes!
                
                But if a liberal government engages in deficit spending, it's the end of the world as we know it, and we'll all be forcibly microchipped and barcoded in our sleep, especially if the deficit spending is on stuff like education, infrastructure, and renewable energy.
                
                You should know that by now, WRW.

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                Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                nope!

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13. 72

    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    It dates back long before Reagan was even born. Come on. The United States was broke before year 1900.

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       lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       And the immorality began from the first step of Puritan/Corporate feet on Indian occupied territory.
       
       I'd say there's a big karma due. Better just accept it....you take the good, you gotta take the bad.
       
       So far, we have doled out a lot of bad. And taken all the good.
       
       You know what they say...the sins of the fathers must be paid by the sons. Mama!! We in some BIIIIIG twubble!!

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          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          

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             PhoenixPoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Yeah, sorry, but we're talking about America which started officially in 1776.  I'm not interested in drudging up the past BEFORE the country officially started.

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                Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                And your point being?
                
                I didn't make any reference with regards to the Country BEFORE it began.
                
                Maybe you should read all the posts of the thread, before you begin talking. It might be helpful.
                
                In case you're wondering why I said that? You replied to my post, which was laughing at what someone else said. Thus, it would conclude you have no idea how the forums work. If you do have an idea how the forums work, then the statement you made is from ignorance, due to the fact that you did read the rest of the forum.
                
                Either way, your post is irrelevant.

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                   PhoenixPoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Sorry, Cags, I was hoping it would show the post to which YOU responded as well.
                   It was just a technical difficulty.
                   Apply it to the post to which YOU responded and it fits perfectly!
                   Sorry!

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                      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      No problem.

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14. 60

    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    Suppose we step outside the wingnut hysteria for a moment and look at the facts.
    
    
    
    The national debt (as a percent of GDP) was higher in the 1940s than it is now. Not only does it show that the Democrats got it under control - the decades where we brought down the debt - mid 40's to mid 60's were VERY prosperous for the middle class.
    
    Now look at the tax rates for the top tier for that time period. Pay attention - there will be a quiz after.
    
    Year Tax        Annual
         Rate      Earnings
    1944 94 %       200,000 +
    1945 94 %       200,000+
    1946 86.45 %    200,000+
    1947 86.45 %    200,000+
    1948 82.13 %    400,000+
    1949 82.13 %    400,000+
    1950 84.36 %    400,000+
    1951 91 %       400,000+
    1952 92 %       400,000+
    1953 92 %       400,000+
    1954 91 %       400,000+
    1955 91 %       400,000+
    1956 91 %       400,000+
    1957 91 %       400,000+
    1958 91 %       400,000+
    1959 91 %       400,000+
    1960 91 %       400,000+
    1961 91 %       400,000+
    1962 91 %       400,000+
    1963 91 %       400,000+
    1964 77 %       400,000+
    1965 70 %       200,000+
    
    
    The highest earning group paid off the national debt and it did NOT adversely affect the growth of America or middle-class prosperity. We have been  here before and we know how to do this. The democrats have to learn to say two words - 'FAIR TAXES'!

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You just failed your own test, you confused the debt with the deficit.
       
       Dude, we've never paid off our debt.

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          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I confused nothing. The national DEBT after WWII was over 90% of GDP. That's considerably higher than it is now. The difference is that after WWII, the US did what it had to do - raise taxes on the wealthy - to move the debt from over 90% of GDP to 35% of GDP. The GI bill and other entitlement programs were perfectyl healthy while the debt declined under a policy of fair taxes. What can not continue is a philosophy of tax breaks for richest and subsidies for connected cartels like the oil industry. Spenidng is only half the equation and the right is ignoring the part they fear - fair taxes!

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             Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Expressing debt as % of GDP doesn't say anything.  If the GDP was going up, which it was at a 5% annual clip back then, of course debt as a % of GDP would go down because the economy was growing!!!
             
             If you owed $10000 and your income was $15000 your debt is 67% of GDP.  But if your income went up to $30000 and didn't pay your debt down your debt as expressed went down to 34% of GDP, that doesn't mean that your debt was reduced, it means your income grew.  Your claim that collecting up to 90% of income as taxes went to reduce debt is WRONG!

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       Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       soo... your... argument... is..
       
       tax the richest people almost all their money to fix the debt/problems with the country...?
       
       really?
       
       Yeah, that'll encourage people to start their companies here in the US!!

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       Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Doug, that chart doesn't seem to be formatted correctly; it's hard to tell where one column heading ends and the next begins.
       
       Also, you don't make it clear whether the tax rate is on earned income or total wealth.  It's important to draw the distinction (well, if, like Evan, you believe all taxes are inherently wrong, it isn't, but for folks who aren't minarchist libertarians, the distinction is important) between payroll taxes (like Social Security, &c) tax on earned income (when someone pays you to do work), and taxes on unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains &c). Not to mention excise taxes (sales tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax, other luxury taxes).
       
       Without understanding what that percentage is a percentage of, it's impossible for me to decide if the post WWII tax rates were really fair or if they were oppressively punishing successful people.

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15. 60

    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    sorry - the graph that did not come across  is -
    
    http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefeder … sident.htm

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Dude your wingnut hysteria jibe is as wrong as your conclusion, we didn't pay off our national debt, if anything it went up even more.

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          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Look at the frickin' graph. Facts are something different from opinions.
          
          http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefeder … sident.htm
          
          Fair Taxes CAN get the debt under control!

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             Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Dude, your frickin graph is stupid!!!  You're talking about the deficit, the deficit was less but the debt increased from $260 billion in 1950 to $909 billion in 1980.  There was less of a deficit but the debt grew which means that everyone during that time was being taxed at those high rates and it still didn't bring the national debt down, the government still spent more than what it took from the citizens.  What part of that don't you get???

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                Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I'm gonna guess he doesn't get most of it.

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                   Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   It is so frustrating Jim, because it's that same mentality that dominates the Dummycrat Party, including our nincompoop of a president.

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                      Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      That "mentality" is the reason democrats will lose in the midterm elections.
                      
                      So be thankful.

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                         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         But it's such a small silver lining

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    PhoenixPoetposted 14 years ago

    Yes, I have heard this claim before and yet life goes on, doesn't it?
    Tell you what we do . . . we file bankruptcy so we don't owe anyone else money and THEN we collect from ALL the countries who owe US!
    We also need to start putting HEAVIER taxes on MOST imports AFTER finding a way to ensure we are producing in THIS country again.
    How about cutting back on what people in prisons get and shoring up our borders?
    There's an answer.  I'm sure of that.

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    A great country cannot go bankrupt as easily as we imagine.  The policy planners, ie., those in power should do something to boost the economy. They can do it... and they should do it.
    
    India, four times greater than USA, was on the brink of economic collapse in 1990-91. The then government had to pledge all the gold reserves for payment of salary to officials. But when govt. changed after the elections, within three months, it was normalised. Why cant the US do it?

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You're kidding right?

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          VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes... I am kidding right.... You are right.

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    William R. Wilsonposted 14 years ago

    "...our political class is showing its priorities: given the choice between asking the richest 2 percent or so of Americans to go back to paying the tax rates they paid during the Clinton-era boom, or allowing the nation’s foundations to crumble — literally in the case of roads, figuratively in the case of education — they’re choosing the latter."
    
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/opini … .html?_r=2

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       leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Under FDR the highest tax rate was 94%! I don't see how anyone would think that's fair. In any case, even if Obama raised the rates to what they were during the FDR era, that still wouldn't be enough to solve the problems we're faced with today.
       
       Let the Bush tax rates expire, I can deal with that, but the truth is the government will have to cut spending as well and cut benefits too, and all of those measures will have to be quite painful in order to make a difference. Will America be able to tolerate the social disruption of those measures? That remains to be seen, but changes are coming whether we want them to or not.

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          Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          "that still wouldn't solve"
          
          still isn't quite the right word!! that would create a whole slew of problems!

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    PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years ago

    I doubt it. Just gives them reason to fulfill there goals...

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    amorea13posted 14 years ago

    Loved 'leeberttea''s comment about the US having been bankrupt since the 1860's and that those whom the 'ordinary' citizen trusted should be held to account - ABSOLUTELY! - and here in England we of course have the same issue -
    
    'realitybytes' said that the citizens have been held as 'collateral' for the financial actions of the private bankers and he's right too -
    
    Since 1694 (at least) these private bankers have slowly and very cleverly (and usually with malice-aforethought) manipulated government and therefore individual finances to the extent that we are now ALL of us in DEBT to THEM! (Or so they would have us believe!)
    
    WE have no money - we are in THEIR debt and they have managed to make us believe this so totally that we think government has the answers! They don't!
    
    The REAL value (money) in all of this is OUR 'money-of-exchange' - our blood, sweat, time, tears, talent value which is what we exchange for what bankers and government SAY is their real money - but WE are the only real value-givers in all of this issue and have been for decades, certainly since FDR 'stole' the gold from his own people in the 30's! Tough but true.
    
    Nixon made it worse in '71, then we had credit-cards and more plastic money and electronic-loans etc etc but banks DO NOT make any real loss at all and the 'controlling' banks (the really big boys) have ensured that all governments (except 4 I believe - Libya, Sudan, Iran and N. Korea) GUARANTEE that their citizens promise to pay government spending through their taxes. Period!

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       PeppermintPaddyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Absolutely, it is us that makes the government go tick.

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    jcalesposted 14 years ago

    So, funny how all of this is playing perfectly into the many successful predictions by Harry Dent...a long tough recessions/depression until 2015 or 2016. whatever President took office in 2008 or 2012 was doomed according to cycles/population and more data.  Of course, he "may have" had some wrong ones but this is right on. And then you look at the irrational stock market the last few weeks.

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well Dent was really wrong about the Roaring 2000s.  Now that we're in 2010 we got a nincompoop of a president who prefers golfing and playing other sports instead of his job, on top of which he's ignorant when it comes to economics.

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    leebertteaposted 14 years ago

    Our debt today is 13 trillion and our GDP is 14 trillion, so our debt today is 93% of GDP. Imagine your debts were 93% of your income, how long do you think you could maintain them? How long before the interest increases your debt beyond your ability to pay? This is a very dangerous situation debt is escalating rapidly, and GDP has been revised DOWN and Obamacare hasn't even begun it's stranglehold.
    
    Bush drove the economy into a ditch, but Obama set it on fire and is driving it over a cliff!

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       klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       They are planning to sell us (americans) to China.

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          Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think the Chinese want to buy a broken America We're all going to move up to Canada as refugees!

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             klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I can go for that! ...Oh, Canada... Oh, Canada... ♫♪♫...

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                Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I'm getting my thermal underwear ready.

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                   klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Oh, yeah... winter... I forgot! na... I'll stay here in Miami... we're practically Central American anyways! lol

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             leebertteaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Don't they own us already?

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                Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Well I'm expecting them to grab our land any day now.  Care to learn Mandarin?

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                   klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Well, I'll be in Key West drinking beer at Sloppy Joe's.

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    bsscorpio8posted 14 years ago

    Yea, we are bankrupt, though we are "powerful", and have "good credit", and that's all that counts...right?

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       Reality Bytesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It is possible that the UNITED STATE'S credit rating may change.
       
       US credit rating at risk, Moody's warns!
       
       From:   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ … warns.html
       
       
       The credit ratings agency cautioned that if the US were to grow at slower pace levels than expected, the largest economy in the world’s already-extended finances could be over-stretched, in turn damaging its AAA credit rating.
       
       Were the US to lose its AAA rating, it could cause further financial damage, by increasing the cost of borrowing money, a necessary evil for a country predicted to have a $1.56 trillion  budget deficit this year.

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          bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is when the "power" comes in,"We are broke, so what; what are you going to do, kick our ass?"

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    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    This whole conversation has now become funny.
    
    In one corner we have people arguing about % to GDP which is off topic and a distraction tactic.
    
    In another corner we have people talking about debt, which is on topic.
    
    In another corner we have people complaining about bankers and corporations, yet another distraction tactic and off topic.
    
    In another corner we have people talking about other Countries, which is off topic and completely baseless.
    
    Then some people who are arguing from one of the four corners, are talking about the deficit, which is another distraction tactic and also off topic.
    
    Everyone is arguing about NUMBERS when the fact is already proven that America has been broke for over 100 years now and NO ONE is addressing the problem or giving a solution for fixing the problem, but just complaining.
    
    No wonder why nothing can be done to stop government. What a joke.

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       bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Power, credit, and extortion. What do you not get?

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          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You forget ignorance, but I guess that's not a surprise.

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             bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Oh, the government is not ignorant, only us voting fools!!!

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                Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I didn't say anything in respect to the ignorance of government and you shouldn't go around putting words into other people's mouth. DUH!
                
                Edit: Yes, the people are the ignorant ones.

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                   bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Yet you did mention ignorance without specification. Anyway, who uses their mouth to write?

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                      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      You also mentioned power and a few other things, just as vague. So what is your point?
                      
                      Edit: Again, no solution, just running off at the mouth.

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                         bsscorpio8posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Since you have stated that you are just running off at the mouth (thought),I am just going with your point.

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       Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I did say it was pointless, didn't I?

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          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          It's not pointless. It's funny!

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    America is not a rich country by nature. Before second world war, they were hit by recession and inflation. When the war began, it industries converted themselves as arms producers and became very rich. Some European countries obtained large quantity of arms from America. Their men went to fight with Europeans against Germany. All their loans were repaid at the end of the war. This made America very rich. With that richness, they pulled on till now and they are now exhausted.

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Interesting false details. But nice try. You should seriously quit while the hole you're already in is over your head.

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          Jim Hunterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          They are not completely false.
          
          FDR did not get us out of the depression WW2 did.
          
          The rest, not exactly correct.

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          VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Truth always looks bad. 
          
          But being at another end of the globe, we know how Britain repaid the debts to America after  WW2.
          
          We Indians were squeezed like anything.   All the available richness of India was withdrawn to UK on the way to America.  We were made almost penniless.  Even the silver coins circulating among people were withdrawn. We never minded it nor objected to it.
          
          Our poverty sustained till now.... Your richness sustained till now.

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             Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Like I said.

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    Ohmaposted 14 years ago

    Saying what really needs to happen in this country in a public forum could be viewed as treason. remember all of the founding fathers where accused of treason against England for having the will to stand up and do what was best for the people.

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       Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No, you can say almost anything without gtting into trouble for treason. It's when you start to ACT against this country you can get in trouble.

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    amorea13posted 14 years ago

    Reality Bites said something 'right on the money' - that if USA loses her AAA rating then money would be more expensive to borrow - absolutely right - it's the same here in England and France and Germany et al et al - but FROM WHOM would they 'borrow' this fantasy money?
    
    From the POWER-BROKER BANKERS who set the whole scam up in the first place! Just ask who really has all the wealth if governments are all running debt economies (which they are).
    
    In the very end it is always 'the people' who possess all the true wealth in their 'money-of-exchange'. Bankers offer us 'money-of-account' out of thin air and we've taken the bait for a 100 years thinking THEY have the value. They don't - WE DO!

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    wifelvposted 14 years ago

    The ANSWER IS : If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will {e} heal their land.
    I will cause the pestilence to cease and destroy the beasts that hurt the fruit of the earth, and send rain in due season.

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You cannot be serious. Religious garbage in a political forum?

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          wifelvposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hey stupid, don't you realize that our political system was founded after the law of Moses!  DAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaahahahhaha

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             Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Right, and both are completely deceptive, and expect the ignorant masses to do as they are told and not think for themselves.
             
             As for calling me "stupid". Get life.

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                wifelvposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Cagsil: You seem to come off as if your void of being deceptive yourself. Hummm had you ever had an affair?  God wants us to think for ourselves and he advocates it.  He abhors foolishness.  You say our political system is deceptive.  What about our consumer system? Or banking? How about Schools system? Or woe is me, Medical community...Come on, WE as humans are DECEPTIVE!  No system is immune.  YOUR deceptive and you know it, So am I!!! So when you have the market on honesty yourself than you can start pointing fingers. Take the plank out of your own eye first then you can see fit to pull it out of others.

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                   Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   No, I haven't. I don't have sexual issues, nor does it rule my life.
                   And, how would you know what a god wants? Doh!
                   Conjecture, because you've not a clue.
                   No the system isn't deceptive, the people operating are.
                   What about it? Of course the consumer is going to be deceptive, they have to pay for products.
                   Banking is a fraud on the people and has been ever since it was installed.
                   The School system wreaks with politic misconduct, therefore it is presently damaged, but no beyond repair.
                   I'm positive BIG BUSINESS is ruining that too.
                   It began with religion, and sprang forth from there. So please..
                   Ignorance is blissful.
                   Do me a favor and SPEAK for yourself only. Try not to speak for others. You've not a clue what it means to be honest and your words prove it.
                   Okay, I will, Now be quiet.
                   I did that a long time sweetheart and had you been here longer than you would have realize it already.
                   
                   But, do try and have a great day.

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    I respect America, ie., USA very much in the sense that it is the only guarantee as on date to ensure freedom of people. But it has overdone its responsibilities, just to ensure false prestige.
    
    The only way to get out of the present status is awakening of the American people. Let them not think that they are superior to all other nations. And let them think they are just one among nations.
    
    Let Obama not hang medals on the necks of Iraq-returned soldiers. Let him offer agricultural lands to the battle-field heroes. Let them cultivate those lands. Let them produce more and send them to needy countries. Battle field experience will work well in agricultural field also. Or if the ex-soldiers like, let them start small industries and boost industrial production. Let the ex-soldiers not confine to their homes after their experience in battle field.

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Keep digging.

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          VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Keep thinking.

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    PhoenixPoetposted 14 years ago

    Wow!  You guys are still discussing this, huh?

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