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The USA Is Bankrupt!

  1. leeberttea profile image57
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-1 … ikoff.html

    It can't get any more plain than this. Funny but it seems most people in America know this already. The only ones that don't know are the ones running the show. People voted for change, but they didn't think the change they voted for would be worse then what they had. America is in real need of greater revenues, much greater revenues, the kind that can only be generated by robust economic activity, the kind of activity that only the private sector can generate if they are encouraged by the right regulations to do so. This administration has done everything possible to constrain the free market and America can no longer afford to put up with them.

    1. lender3212000 profile image79
      lender3212000posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      While it's true that we need more revenue, what we really need to do is cut down on the useless spending until the economy can stabilize. I agree that the current administration doesn't seem to be making the connection between supporting business and increased tax revenues. The idealistic view that the government can just provide everyone with what they need in terms of health care, housing, and on and on may sound great but it just doesn't work out in practice. All of these programs cost money and once they run out of ways to cook the books, we're going to learn the hard way that  running a country isn't like pre-school sports where "everyone wins". This is going to sound harsh but this country was made great on the back of capitalism and that means there will be winners and losers. We'll all be better off in the long run if we let the system operate the way it was designed. Yes, that means that people who aren't willing to work and take responsibility for themselves will be left behind. I don't know about the rest of you but I'll take that over bringing down everyone while we chase an unrealistic ideal that history has proven is not economically feasible.

    2. jessicababel profile image59
      jessicababelposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What's your point? We've carried a large debt for the entire life of our country. Most countries have large debts to other countries. It's just the way the global economy works.

      1. leeberttea profile image57
        leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Trees don't grow into space. The point is that the current trends can not be sustained, that something will have to give and when it does the effects on society could be catastrophic at worst.

    3. steve8miller profile image82
      steve8millerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah we need to pull down taxes from the rich once and for all. It is time that they contribute to America. I know they do not consider themselves American. However we have given the Corporations all the breaks here in America for times like this. Well big corporations the time is here, where is that give us what we want and we will contribute to America. Where is that promise. Or are we saying we just give the corporations what they want, when they want so a few lobbyist can make some politicians "Republicans" Money. Well Republicans do you see what you have done, do you see how they are helping America. They are complaining about tax increases they paid in the 90's. During booming economic times. As well the big corporations here in America and the Republicans are mad they can no longer "HIDE TAXES FROM AMERICA" They complained about the Tax havens so the big corporations can not cheat the IRS. If we as American citizens cheat the IRS we have to pay, we get in trouble. However if you are rich you can hide anything you want from the IRS. Why would the Republicans want to block jobs to the people teachers, police, fire dept, ect. The Republicans wanted to block these jobs in order to continue to hide the tax havens over seas. Hide money to help America over seas, talk about greedy and insane. Why do we continue to help these rich corporations again, why? So they can play economic terrorism here in America. It is sick. 2 republicans voted for this bill to save teachers and make the corporations pay taxes to help America. 2 Republicans sad day for America. We are lucky there is a party in control that does the right thing.

      On that note vote for the Dems do not let the republicans kill America on the election coming up. I know it may seem no one in their right mind would vote for any republican, however they will. So get out and vote for the Democrats. That is the only way we are going to have progress in this country. If the republicans take power, America will stall out and wreck. Not good thing to do is stall up America in times such as these. The government needs to take the proper action to turn this whole thing around. The president has already done a lot to help. However the atheist party of the Nazis I mean republicans lol j/k I do not play those games that is a joke because that is what they project on the Dems right now. Not the games to play when America is bankrupt. Let us get them out of this country, let us push back the republican party once and for all. They hinder America they do not help it. Let the independents and the Democrats run this country once and for all.

      P.S this is no debate, these are facts. I do not debate facts, if you are a Republican feel free to put up that BIG "Red Herring" people will stare you can distract the mindless you are good at that. However I will not debate you, as I do not debate facts. The facts Democrats are helping America, while every single action from the Republicans are hurting America. Fact no debate and we all "who are not brainwashed / deceived" know it as fact. For those who agree. Here here off with the Republican Party once and for all. lol

      1. Jim Hunter profile image60
        Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I can certainly understand not wanting to debate those 'facts'

    4. Elpaso profile image58
      Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Explain this to me "like I'm a five year old".  The Country became bankrupt when Reagan came into office and started to deregulate companies and banks, Right? We became bankrupt with the first phony war in Grenada, Right? We became bankrupt when the last Bush robbed the treasury for big business, Right?
      And now you're telling me that our Country is bankrupt because of the President in office less than a year is the reason our country is broke?

      1. Jim Hunter profile image60
        Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "Explain this to me "like I'm a five year old".

        Ok

        "The Country became bankrupt when Reagan came into office and started to deregulate companies and banks, Right?"

        Wrong.

        "We became bankrupt with the first phony war in Grenada, Right?"

        Phony war? The citizens of Grenada refer to that action as their Thanksgiving. So, wrong again.

        "We became bankrupt when the last Bush robbed the treasury for big business, Right?"

        Make up your mind did we become bankrupt under Reagan or Bush?

        "And now you're telling me that our Country is bankrupt because of the President in office less than a year is the reason our country is broke?"

        Hmmm, less than a year? You know Bush did spend a lot of money while he was in office, and the current moron in chief voted yea for every Bush proposal while in the Senate.

        I hope that has helped you to see your mistakes.

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The funnier thing is that the Country was broke before either one of those Presidents mentioned were ever born. lol lol lol

  2. Flightkeeper profile image72
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    How did you just find this out?!

    1. leeberttea profile image57
      leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh it's really common knowledge, but this article references a report by the IMF that has reached the same conclusion. It's not Parisian any longer, it's fact and the notion that government can stimulate and spend us into prosperity is beyond ridiculous and borders on economic terrorism.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image72
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Here's the other fact, our government doesn't pay attention.  They're thinking about another stimulus. roll

        1. leeberttea profile image57
          leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Didn't they just pass another stimulus? The 26.1 billion dollar bill to save teachers, police and fire fighters from losing their jobs.

          What I don't understand is why not lay them off and let them collect unemployment because according to Pelosi, unemployment benefits are the best way to stimulate the economy and it creates jobs!

          www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAhmYKlsWW4

          You just can't make this s**t up! big_smile

        2. Daniel Carter profile image90
          Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          If that does happen, we'll see homelessness like we've never seen it before. This year we'll top over a million home foreclosures, and I'm edging closer to that list each day.

          The government stimulated business, not the consumer. And the it's the consumer who's bailing out business, being robbed so that we can't even support business as we used to. That and the trust in business models these days is at an all-time low.

          Predatory business practice is rampant everywhere. Government intervention in behalf of business only enables business to continue to become more predatory.

  3. Richard Craig profile image68
    Richard Craigposted 7 years ago

    It's the same with England.  We're probably worse though because we sell our businesses to foreign countries then buy back the products with huge taxes mounted on top.  Makes no sense to me.

  4. Reality Bytes profile image91
    Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago

    The United states has been bankrupt since the Civil War, when it put its citizens up for collateral to international financiers.

    1. William R. Wilson profile image62
      William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      LOL.

      1. Reality Bytes profile image91
        Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago in reply to this



        I am sure you must know different.

        The National Debt uses the United States Citizens as collatteral.

        Its ability to tax the population is what hols up the entire corporation.

        The UNITED STATES is a corporation and its citizens are Property.
        Being an entity only ten square miles the Corporation has been trying to crush the State's rights ever since.

  5. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 7 years ago

    You're right, of course - the US is bankrupt and has been for some time.

    The answer is not, however, increased revenues - we have become a nation of people living off their entitlements instead of their work.  Instead of paying for necessary items such as national defense and infrastructure we give the money away to promote "good will" and political votes while building entertainment for the masses.

    Nor is the answer more tax deductions for businesses that politicians find will benefit them either directly or indirectly through more votes.  If a business can make it on their own they will do so, but if it can't, then let it fail instead of propping it up with tax dollars for the owners.

  6. Shadesbreath profile image87
    Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

    I hope they loosen up some gun laws so I can stockpile enough to stave off the looters when the Sh*t-storm hits.

  7. Cagsil profile image59
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    The United States has been Bankrupt for almost 100 years now. It's unfortunate that it is not common knowledge or not paid enough attention too for so long.

    Simply goes to show how foolish the public is about their own awareness of how bad things truly are in America. hmm

    1. Rafini profile image88
      Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Why do we always blame the American Public when the blame for lack of information belongs to the ones in charge?

      1. leeberttea profile image57
        leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hello my friend!

        I think it's time to hold those we trusted, accountable. They should be in jail for what they have done, and continue to do!

        1. lovemychris profile image80
          lovemychrisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do you include the ones from 2000-2008, or do you just start now?

      2. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You keep thinking that. A prime example of the level of awareness of the individual. Thank you for showing it. hmm

        1. Rafini profile image88
          Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          roll Well, seeing as how I'm not there, in Washington, overseeing what's going on, I do believe it's up to those in charge to keep me informed of the truth.  I know I can't trust the newspapers or TV news programs...all they want to talk about is Bristol Palin and Levi whateverhisnameis running for Mayor.

          1. Misha profile image73
            Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Nah, this is your own responsibility to keep yourself informed.

            1. Cagsil profile image59
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you Misha. At least I don't have to say it now. lol

            2. Rafini profile image88
              Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              BS.  Can't help it, but that is total BS.  I can't afford to go to Washington and watch what the Government is doing.  So, it's my fault that I don't know?  You do realize the Government puts our press releases, right?  The only problem with that is what's included in the press release isn't important info!   The Government doesn't have a problem telling the people what the First Lady wore to dinner last night when Paul McCartney was there...even though it was televised and someone who's knowledgeable of fashion could have done the same thing....

              1. Daniel Carter profile image90
                Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                It's true we can't know everything, because we are removed. However, in the end we are either victims for not knowing, or we get the facts and start making a difference. We elect representative to protect our interests, but the truth is they represent their own interests in most cases. It's nightmarish at best.

                I agree with Lee that in order for the press to get the "ins" they need, they have to lick the feet of the White House and Washington. It's loaded no matter which direction you look at it. Preaching of change in 2008 was enough to "inspire" people to vote. But the reality is that Washington is a brothel of power and money, and that is what rules governments. No president can overcome the gravity and seduction of those two powers. It's suicide to attempt it. So the best anyone can do is walk in, slay people, and try to set new rules.

                Obama's rules are making him a very unpopular president. He doesn't have the power to overcome the dragon of money and power, either. And I'm not sure that if he did that it would necessarily be a good thing.

                1. Rafini profile image88
                  Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank Daniel for setting it straight.  The only problem is when gathering your own facts, how are you to know whether or not your sources are honest?  How are you to know whether or not your sources are actually informing you of what you want to know, rather than informing you of what they want you to know?

                  What I'm saying is, it's a mess.

                  1. Daniel Carter profile image90
                    Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I couldn't agree with you more. There are no easy answers. But putting blame on everything/everyone else just makes us all victims. Victims don't do a lot to empower themselves. So, I do understand exactly what you're saying, I get that. But there has to be a point where we are willing to take responsibility back for our own well-being, including those who represent us. It's a mess to be sure. I don't have any answers, really, just observations.

              2. Misha profile image73
                Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Poor thing...

                1. Rafini profile image88
                  Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol, I think you missed the point Misha. 

                  I gave up on following Politics years ago when I couldn't find the important information I was looking  for (before the internet) and am not too sure I want to get back into it.
                   
                  To me it seems pointless...the Government is going to do what it wants, regardless.  The people are going to do what they want, regardless.  Nothing is going to change, so why bother? 

                  For me, it makes more sense for me to live my life the way I choose and say "To h@ll with those who think they're in charge of me!!"

                  1. Misha profile image73
                    Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    All this does not take away your responsibility to keep yourself informed in what is going on around you, including what those that DO control your life (whether you admit it or not) are doing, even though they make every effort to delude and distract you. It is really not that hard, once you understand the basic principles. You can start here: http://mises.org/ smile

                  2. Evan G Rogers profile image77
                    Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    if you believe that "the government will do what it wants to regardless", then you need to start voting libertarian!

  8. profile image0
    klarawieckposted 7 years ago

    Impossible! Nonsense! We just need to go rob Bush! smile

    1. leeberttea profile image57
      leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If you want to rob someone, rob George Soros!

    2. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Rob Bush? Sure, turn everyone else into what the politicians are. Great plan. roll

      1. profile image0
        klarawieckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Don't you roll eyes at me Cagsil! mad

  9. leeberttea profile image57
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    Forgive him, he's cursed with omniscience. roll

  10. leeberttea profile image57
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    To your point, it is the job of the press to ask the tough questions and to report on what the government is doing. We can't expect the government to be truthful or forthcoming.

    The problem today is that the press is now the lap dog of government. It does as it's told.

    1. Rafini profile image88
      Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly!  Makes it much more difficult to keep yourself informed of the true happenings in Government.

    2. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Does that include Fox?? Or do they have another master? I think they do.

    3. Jeff Berndt profile image88
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "The problem today is that the press is now the lap dog of government. It does as it's told." Since when? Serious question. When did this become the situation.

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image77
        Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        luckily Wikileaks is doing their job for them.

  11. William R. Wilson profile image62
    William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago

    I don't necessarily agree with everything in the OP.. but I do see serious trouble ahead for the US, financially, socially, environmentally....

    The solution is for normal folks to step outside of the system, and get together to help each other.  Washington won't save us from anything - and neither will the corporations. 

    Right now we are in a major recession, and people are scared and angry.  That's why everyone is pointing fingers.  It's the democrats!  No, it's the Republitards!  No, it's the evil government, let's let the magic free market fix everything!  No, actually it's the illegal immigrants to blame for everything!  Blah blah blahdi blah and on and on. 

    The truth is, it's the powerful looking after their own interests, at the expense of everyone else.  That cuts across party lines, racial, religious, and ethnic lines.

    1. Reality Bytes profile image91
      Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago in reply to this



      Now this is Truth!!!!

  12. Flightkeeper profile image72
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    Bottom line the USA became bankrupt under a Dummycrat President and a Dummycrat Senate and a Dummycrat House.  Three strikes, you're all out come November!

    1. William R. Wilson profile image62
      William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think Reagan gets the honor actually.

      1. Flightkeeper profile image72
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The IMF just told us that the US is bankrupt and now you're saying that Reagan did it, the one who helped the economy create a lot of jobs that Reagan?  Is there no end to the spin?

        1. William R. Wilson profile image62
          William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          So when Reagan triples the national debt to create jobs it's ok?

          1. Flightkeeper profile image72
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well it's not as bad as during FDRs time whe he increased debt sixteenfold and didn't create as many private jobs big_smile

          2. Jeff Berndt profile image88
            Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Anytime a conservative government engages in deficit spending, it's all sunshine and roses, especially if the deficit spending is on stuff that explodes!

            But if a liberal government engages in deficit spending, it's the end of the world as we know it, and we'll all be forcibly microchipped and barcoded in our sleep, especially if the deficit spending is on stuff like education, infrastructure, and renewable energy.

            You should know that by now, WRW.

          3. Evan G Rogers profile image77
            Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            nope!

  13. Cagsil profile image59
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    It dates back long before Reagan was even born. Come on. hmm The United States was broke before year 1900. lol

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And the immorality began from the first step of Puritan/Corporate feet on Indian occupied territory.

      I'd say there's a big karma due. Better just accept it....you take the good, you gotta take the bad.

      So far, we have doled out a lot of bad. And taken all the good.

      You know what they say...the sins of the fathers must be paid by the sons. Mama!! We in some BIIIIIG twubble!!

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol

        1. PhoenixPoet profile image53
          PhoenixPoetposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, sorry, but we're talking about America which started officially in 1776.  I'm not interested in drudging up the past BEFORE the country officially started.

          1. Cagsil profile image59
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            And your point being? hmm

            I didn't make any reference with regards to the Country BEFORE it began.

            Maybe you should read all the posts of the thread, before you begin talking. It might be helpful.

            In case you're wondering why I said that? You replied to my post, which was laughing at what someone else said. Thus, it would conclude you have no idea how the forums work. If you do have an idea how the forums work, then the statement you made is from ignorance, due to the fact that you did read the rest of the forum.

            Either way, your post is irrelevant. hmm

            1. PhoenixPoet profile image53
              PhoenixPoetposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, Cags, I was hoping it would show the post to which YOU responded as well.
              It was just a technical difficulty.
              Apply it to the post to which YOU responded and it fits perfectly!
              Sorry!

              1. Cagsil profile image59
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No problem. smile

  14. Doug Hughes profile image61
    Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago

    Suppose we step outside the wingnut hysteria for a moment and look at the facts.

    http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefederalbudget/ig/Political-Economic-Measures/Debt-GDP-by-President.htm

    The national debt (as a percent of GDP) was higher in the 1940s than it is now. Not only does it show that the Democrats got it under control - the decades where we brought down the debt - mid 40's to mid 60's were VERY prosperous for the middle class.

    Now look at the tax rates for the top tier for that time period. Pay attention - there will be a quiz after.

    Year Tax        Annual
         Rate      Earnings
    1944 94 %       200,000 +
    1945 94 %       200,000+
    1946 86.45 %    200,000+
    1947 86.45 %    200,000+
    1948 82.13 %    400,000+
    1949 82.13 %    400,000+
    1950 84.36 %    400,000+
    1951 91 %       400,000+
    1952 92 %       400,000+
    1953 92 %       400,000+
    1954 91 %       400,000+
    1955 91 %       400,000+
    1956 91 %       400,000+
    1957 91 %       400,000+
    1958 91 %       400,000+
    1959 91 %       400,000+
    1960 91 %       400,000+
    1961 91 %       400,000+
    1962 91 %       400,000+
    1963 91 %       400,000+
    1964 77 %       400,000+
    1965 70 %       200,000+


    The highest earning group paid off the national debt and it did NOT adversely affect the growth of America or middle-class prosperity. We have been  here before and we know how to do this. The democrats have to learn to say two words - 'FAIR TAXES'!

    1. Flightkeeper profile image72
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You just failed your own test, you confused the debt with the deficit. lol

      Dude, we've never paid off our debt.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image61
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I confused nothing. The national DEBT after WWII was over 90% of GDP. That's considerably higher than it is now. The difference is that after WWII, the US did what it had to do - raise taxes on the wealthy - to move the debt from over 90% of GDP to 35% of GDP. The GI bill and other entitlement programs were perfectyl healthy while the debt declined under a policy of fair taxes. What can not continue is a philosophy of tax breaks for richest and subsidies for connected cartels like the oil industry. Spenidng is only half the equation and the right is ignoring the part they fear - fair taxes!

        1. Flightkeeper profile image72
          Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Expressing debt as % of GDP doesn't say anything.  If the GDP was going up, which it was at a 5% annual clip back then, of course debt as a % of GDP would go down because the economy was growing!!!

          If you owed $10000 and your income was $15000 your debt is 67% of GDP.  But if your income went up to $30000 and didn't pay your debt down your debt as expressed went down to 34% of GDP, that doesn't mean that your debt was reduced, it means your income grew.  Your claim that collecting up to 90% of income as taxes went to reduce debt is WRONG!

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image77
      Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      soo... your... argument... is..

      tax the richest people almost all their money to fix the debt/problems with the country...?

      really?

      Yeah, that'll encourage people to start their companies here in the US!!

    3. Jeff Berndt profile image88
      Jeff Berndtposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Doug, that chart doesn't seem to be formatted correctly; it's hard to tell where one column heading ends and the next begins.

      Also, you don't make it clear whether the tax rate is on earned income or total wealth.  It's important to draw the distinction (well, if, like Evan, you believe all taxes are inherently wrong, it isn't, but for folks who aren't minarchist libertarians, the distinction is important) between payroll taxes (like Social Security, &c) tax on earned income (when someone pays you to do work), and taxes on unearned income (interest, dividends, capital gains &c). Not to mention excise taxes (sales tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax, other luxury taxes).

      Without understanding what that percentage is a percentage of, it's impossible for me to decide if the post WWII tax rates were really fair or if they were oppressively punishing successful people.

  15. Doug Hughes profile image61
    Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago

    sorry - the graph that did not come across  is -

    http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefeder … sident.htm

    1. Flightkeeper profile image72
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Dude your wingnut hysteria jibe is as wrong as your conclusion, we didn't pay off our national debt, if anything it went up even more.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image61
        Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Look at the frickin' graph. Facts are something different from opinions.

        http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefeder … sident.htm

        Fair Taxes CAN get the debt under control!

        1. Flightkeeper profile image72
          Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Dude, your frickin graph is stupid!!!  You're talking about the deficit, the deficit was less but the debt increased from $260 billion in 1950 to $909 billion in 1980.  There was less of a deficit but the debt grew which means that everyone during that time was being taxed at those high rates and it still didn't bring the national debt down, the government still spent more than what it took from the citizens.  What part of that don't you get???

          1. Jim Hunter profile image60
            Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I'm gonna guess he doesn't get most of it.

            1. Flightkeeper profile image72
              Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It is so frustrating Jim, because it's that same mentality that dominates the Dummycrat Party, including our nincompoop of a president.

              1. Jim Hunter profile image60
                Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                That "mentality" is the reason democrats will lose in the midterm elections.

                So be thankful.

                1. Flightkeeper profile image72
                  Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  But it's such a small silver lining sad

  16. PhoenixPoet profile image53
    PhoenixPoetposted 7 years ago

    Yes, I have heard this claim before and yet life goes on, doesn't it?
    Tell you what we do . . . we file bankruptcy so we don't owe anyone else money and THEN we collect from ALL the countries who owe US!
    We also need to start putting HEAVIER taxes on MOST imports AFTER finding a way to ensure we are producing in THIS country again.
    How about cutting back on what people in prisons get and shoring up our borders?
    There's an answer.  I'm sure of that.

  17. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    A great country cannot go bankrupt as easily as we imagine.  The policy planners, ie., those in power should do something to boost the economy. They can do it... and they should do it.

    India, four times greater than USA, was on the brink of economic collapse in 1990-91. The then government had to pledge all the gold reserves for payment of salary to officials. But when govt. changed after the elections, within three months, it was normalised. Why cant the US do it?

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You're kidding right? lol

      1. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
        VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes... I am kidding right.... You are right.

  18. William R. Wilson profile image62
    William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago

    "...our political class is showing its priorities: given the choice between asking the richest 2 percent or so of Americans to go back to paying the tax rates they paid during the Clinton-era boom, or allowing the nation’s foundations to crumble — literally in the case of roads, figuratively in the case of education — they’re choosing the latter."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/opini … .html?_r=2

    1. leeberttea profile image57
      leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Under FDR the highest tax rate was 94%! I don't see how anyone would think that's fair. In any case, even if Obama raised the rates to what they were during the FDR era, that still wouldn't be enough to solve the problems we're faced with today.

      Let the Bush tax rates expire, I can deal with that, but the truth is the government will have to cut spending as well and cut benefits too, and all of those measures will have to be quite painful in order to make a difference. Will America be able to tolerate the social disruption of those measures? That remains to be seen, but changes are coming whether we want them to or not.

      1. Evan G Rogers profile image77
        Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        "that still wouldn't solve"

        still isn't quite the right word!! that would create a whole slew of problems!

  19. PeppermintPaddy profile image72
    PeppermintPaddyposted 7 years ago

    I doubt it. Just gives them reason to fulfill there goals...

  20. profile image0
    amorea13posted 7 years ago

    Loved 'leeberttea''s comment about the US having been bankrupt since the 1860's and that those whom the 'ordinary' citizen trusted should be held to account - ABSOLUTELY! - and here in England we of course have the same issue -

    'realitybytes' said that the citizens have been held as 'collateral' for the financial actions of the private bankers and he's right too -

    Since 1694 (at least) these private bankers have slowly and very cleverly (and usually with malice-aforethought) manipulated government and therefore individual finances to the extent that we are now ALL of us in DEBT to THEM! (Or so they would have us believe!)

    WE have no money - we are in THEIR debt and they have managed to make us believe this so totally that we think government has the answers! They don't!

    The REAL value (money) in all of this is OUR 'money-of-exchange' - our blood, sweat, time, tears, talent value which is what we exchange for what bankers and government SAY is their real money - but WE are the only real value-givers in all of this issue and have been for decades, certainly since FDR 'stole' the gold from his own people in the 30's! Tough but true.

    Nixon made it worse in '71, then we had credit-cards and more plastic money and electronic-loans etc etc but banks DO NOT make any real loss at all and the 'controlling' banks (the really big boys) have ensured that all governments (except 4 I believe - Libya, Sudan, Iran and N. Korea) GUARANTEE that their citizens promise to pay government spending through their taxes. Period!

    1. PeppermintPaddy profile image72
      PeppermintPaddyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely, it is us that makes the government go tick.

  21. jcales profile image62
    jcalesposted 7 years ago

    So, funny how all of this is playing perfectly into the many successful predictions by Harry Dent...a long tough recessions/depression until 2015 or 2016. whatever President took office in 2008 or 2012 was doomed according to cycles/population and more data.  Of course, he "may have" had some wrong ones but this is right on. And then you look at the irrational stock market the last few weeks.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image72
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well Dent was really wrong about the Roaring 2000s.  Now that we're in 2010 we got a nincompoop of a president who prefers golfing and playing other sports instead of his job, on top of which he's ignorant when it comes to economics.

  22. leeberttea profile image57
    leebertteaposted 7 years ago

    Our debt today is 13 trillion and our GDP is 14 trillion, so our debt today is 93% of GDP. Imagine your debts were 93% of your income, how long do you think you could maintain them? How long before the interest increases your debt beyond your ability to pay? This is a very dangerous situation debt is escalating rapidly, and GDP has been revised DOWN and Obamacare hasn't even begun it's stranglehold.

    Bush drove the economy into a ditch, but Obama set it on fire and is driving it over a cliff!

    1. profile image0
      klarawieckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      They are planning to sell us (americans) to China. big_smile

      1. Flightkeeper profile image72
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think the Chinese want to buy a broken America smile We're all going to move up to Canada as refugees!

        1. profile image0
          klarawieckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I can go for that! big_smile ...Oh, Canada... Oh, Canada... ♫♪♫...

          1. Flightkeeper profile image72
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I'm getting my thermal underwear ready. lol

            1. profile image0
              klarawieckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, yeah... winter... I forgot! na... I'll stay here in Miami... we're practically Central American anyways! lol

        2. leeberttea profile image57
          leebertteaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Don't they own us already?

          1. Flightkeeper profile image72
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well I'm expecting them to grab our land any day now.  Care to learn Mandarin?

            1. profile image0
              klarawieckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I'll be in Key West drinking beer at Sloppy Joe's.

  23. bsscorpio8 profile image60
    bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago

    Yea, we are bankrupt, though we are "powerful", and have "good credit", and that's all that counts...right?

    1. Reality Bytes profile image91
      Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It is possible that the UNITED STATE'S credit rating may change.

      US credit rating at risk, Moody's warns!

      From:   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ … warns.html


      The credit ratings agency cautioned that if the US were to grow at slower pace levels than expected, the largest economy in the world’s already-extended finances could be over-stretched, in turn damaging its AAA credit rating.

      Were the US to lose its AAA rating, it could cause further financial damage, by increasing the cost of borrowing money, a necessary evil for a country predicted to have a $1.56 trillion  budget deficit this year.

      1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
        bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That is when the "power" comes in,"We are broke, so what; what are you going to do, kick our ass?"

  24. Cagsil profile image59
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    This whole conversation has now become funny. lol lol lol

    In one corner we have people arguing about % to GDP which is off topic and a distraction tactic.

    In another corner we have people talking about debt, which is on topic.

    In another corner we have people complaining about bankers and corporations, yet another distraction tactic and off topic.

    In another corner we have people talking about other Countries, which is off topic and completely baseless.

    Then some people who are arguing from one of the four corners, are talking about the deficit, which is another distraction tactic and also off topic.

    Everyone is arguing about NUMBERS when the fact is already proven that America has been broke for over 100 years now and NO ONE is addressing the problem or giving a solution for fixing the problem, but just complaining.

    No wonder why nothing can be done to stop government. What a joke. lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

    1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
      bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Power, credit, and extortion. What do you not get?

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You forget ignorance, but I guess that's not a surprise. lol

        1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
          bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, the government is not ignorant, only us voting fools!!!

          1. Cagsil profile image59
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't say anything in respect to the ignorance of government and you shouldn't go around putting words into other people's mouth. DUH!

            Edit: Yes, the people are the ignorant ones.

            1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
              bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yet you did mention ignorance without specification. Anyway, who uses their mouth to write?

              1. Cagsil profile image59
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You also mentioned power and a few other things, just as vague. So what is your point? hmm

                Edit: Again, no solution, just running off at the mouth. lol

                1. bsscorpio8 profile image60
                  bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Since you have stated that you are just running off at the mouth (thought),I am just going with your point.

    2. Rafini profile image88
      Rafiniposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I did say it was pointless, didn't I?

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It's not pointless. It's funny! lol

  25. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    America is not a rich country by nature. Before second world war, they were hit by recession and inflation. When the war began, it industries converted themselves as arms producers and became very rich. Some European countries obtained large quantity of arms from America. Their men went to fight with Europeans against Germany. All their loans were repaid at the end of the war. This made America very rich. With that richness, they pulled on till now and they are now exhausted.

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting false details. But nice try. You should seriously quit while the hole you're already in is over your head. lol

      1. Jim Hunter profile image60
        Jim Hunterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They are not completely false.

        FDR did not get us out of the depression WW2 did.

        The rest, not exactly correct.

      2. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
        VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Truth always looks bad. 

        But being at another end of the globe, we know how Britain repaid the debts to America after  WW2.

        We Indians were squeezed like anything.   All the available richness of India was withdrawn to UK on the way to America.  We were made almost penniless.  Even the silver coins circulating among people were withdrawn. We never minded it nor objected to it.

        Our poverty sustained till now.... Your richness sustained till now.

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Like I said. roll

  26. Ohma profile image74
    Ohmaposted 7 years ago

    Saying what really needs to happen in this country in a public forum could be viewed as treason. remember all of the founding fathers where accused of treason against England for having the will to stand up and do what was best for the people.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image61
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No, you can say almost anything without gtting into trouble for treason. It's when you start to ACT against this country you can get in trouble.

  27. profile image0
    amorea13posted 7 years ago

    Reality Bites said something 'right on the money' - that if USA loses her AAA rating then money would be more expensive to borrow - absolutely right - it's the same here in England and France and Germany et al et al - but FROM WHOM would they 'borrow' this fantasy money?

    From the POWER-BROKER BANKERS who set the whole scam up in the first place! Just ask who really has all the wealth if governments are all running debt economies (which they are).

    In the very end it is always 'the people' who possess all the true wealth in their 'money-of-exchange'. Bankers offer us 'money-of-account' out of thin air and we've taken the bait for a 100 years thinking THEY have the value. They don't - WE DO!

  28. wifelv profile image61
    wifelvposted 7 years ago

    The ANSWER IS : If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will {e} heal their land.
    I will cause the pestilence to cease and destroy the beasts that hurt the fruit of the earth, and send rain in due season.

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You cannot be serious. Religious garbage in a political forum? lol

      1. wifelv profile image61
        wifelvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hey stupid, don't you realize that our political system was founded after the law of Moses!  DAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaahahahhaha

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Right, and both are completely deceptive, and expect the ignorant masses to do as they are told and not think for themselves.

          As for calling me "stupid". Get life. hmm

          1. wifelv profile image61
            wifelvposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Cagsil: You seem to come off as if your void of being deceptive yourself. Hummm had you ever had an affair?  God wants us to think for ourselves and he advocates it.  He abhors foolishness.  You say our political system is deceptive.  What about our consumer system? Or banking? How about Schools system? Or woe is me, Medical community...Come on, WE as humans are DECEPTIVE!  No system is immune.  YOUR deceptive and you know it, So am I!!! So when you have the market on honesty yourself than you can start pointing fingers. Take the plank out of your own eye first then you can see fit to pull it out of others.

            1. Cagsil profile image59
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              No, I haven't. I don't have sexual issues, nor does it rule my life.
              And, how would you know what a god wants? Doh!
              Conjecture, because you've not a clue.
              No the system isn't deceptive, the people operating are.
              What about it? Of course the consumer is going to be deceptive, they have to pay for products.
              Banking is a fraud on the people and has been ever since it was installed.
              The School system wreaks with politic misconduct, therefore it is presently damaged, but no beyond repair.
              I'm positive BIG BUSINESS is ruining that too.
              It began with religion, and sprang forth from there. So please..
              Ignorance is blissful.
              Do me a favor and SPEAK for yourself only. Try not to speak for others. You've not a clue what it means to be honest and your words prove it.
              Okay, I will, Now be quiet.
              I did that a long time sweetheart and had you been here longer than you would have realize it already.

              But, do try and have a great day.

  29. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    I respect America, ie., USA very much in the sense that it is the only guarantee as on date to ensure freedom of people. But it has overdone its responsibilities, just to ensure false prestige.

    The only way to get out of the present status is awakening of the American people. Let them not think that they are superior to all other nations. And let them think they are just one among nations.

    Let Obama not hang medals on the necks of Iraq-returned soldiers. Let him offer agricultural lands to the battle-field heroes. Let them cultivate those lands. Let them produce more and send them to needy countries. Battle field experience will work well in agricultural field also. Or if the ex-soldiers like, let them start small industries and boost industrial production. Let the ex-soldiers not confine to their homes after their experience in battle field.

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Keep digging. lol

      1. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image58
        VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Keep thinking.

  30. PhoenixPoet profile image53
    PhoenixPoetposted 7 years ago

    Wow!  You guys are still discussing this, huh?

 
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