Just how far ahead are we when in comes to equality in America? Do we really find justice in court rooms are do we find nothing more then the letter of the law?
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/22207 … l-District
"but education is a government necessity!! You don't get to choose your school because it's SO important!!"
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
The State I live in is considering this issue. The Governor wants to give everyone "equal" opportunity to go to whatever school they wanna. On our tax dollars, no less!
I think it's a stupid idea. Just another tangent on the "bussing" idea that, years ago, forced people to go to places they didn't wanna go and made both "sides" look like fools.
Kids should be educated in the districts they live in. But whatever! Political correctness once again gets focused on instead of the needs of students.
But then all those people in the wrong areas that want their kids to have a proper education instead of creationist drivel would not have the freedom of choice that Americans are so fond of claiming as a birthright.
Sure they will. It's called College. Or perhaps you're familiar with it as the term "University". Ya know, that place where many parents sacrifice thousands of dollars to send impressionable minds into the furnace of liberalism.
Brenda you are wrong. In the sixties the civil rights movement fought for "equal education". If the schools are not equal in quality of education, college is not an option for students of the wrong school. In Florida the schools are graded and parents are given the opportunity to send kids to a better school.
Why did they (and you) feel it needs to be made about race? I'm dealing with the same thing with my son, we're white. I'm not in jail but no, it's not because I'm white, it's because I found a different place to send him to school and had to send him on a city bus because I didn't have a car to take him.
The indication in the report is that Blacks are treated differently then Whites I would say that would be a reason to make it a race issue.
I'm just saying the same rules apply to whites; pretending only blacks have this happen BECAUSE they're black is nonsense.
I've looked into laws about sending my son to school in districts different than where we live and they're awful! Fines, jail time, tuition - all for wanting a school for your child to attend safely where he or she can learn academics instead of just street survival.
The you're saying you've been jailed, fined and your relatives have faced the same condition this mother?
How is that if it's not happening to me or if it hasn't happen to me Then It Is Not Happing??
The south was racist in America but to be in the North and say since we aren't south then their is no racism here is just wrong. If it's not happing to me doesn't mean it isn't happening.
tlminut: beware, no car? Sounds like you are underclass. Examples are first made from the bottom, (the lease of us) than it slowly moves up to the top of the underclass, whites too.
I would have to question the completeness of the report as the writer obviously has an axe to grind.
White women wouldn't be charged. White women would have a better lawyer. White women wouldn't be made an example of. Black people are robbed of economic opportunities. White women don't live in the projects. Kind of makes the reporting suspect to me.
Having said that, however, the complete sentence seems more than a little harsh. Jail time for falsifying court documents - maybe. Paying for the "stolen" education - maybe, especially if the "correct" education was deducted and given to Copely, paid for by Akron. Losing her college work and teaching aspirations - absolutely ridiculous and shameful. I suppose that is an automatic result of the "theft" but it's still shameful.
I think the judge is crazy to give that kind of punishment. It's not unheard of for mothers wanting to give their kids a better education than one that they get at their local school in the projects. In addition, their father lives in that district and is paying for the taxes so why shouldn't his daughters take advantage of the school? To further punish the mother by taking away her chance at earning a higher paying salary is just disgusting.
They didn't go to school in their fathers district, but in their grandfathers.
Oh okay, but didn't the grandfather pay tax as well? His grandaughters should be able to take advantage of the school system given the taxes he's paid. To charge him for grand theft is expanding the meaning of the word to a whole new level.
Of course he does pay taxes to support the school intended for children living in his district. We all do. But how far do you take it? Aunts and uncles? Great grandparents? Second cousins?
The whole question is a tough nut. Everyone wants better education for their kids, but few will pay for it in either taxes, donations to fund raisers or time devoted to school needs. And yet, it is the kids that suffer for something not their fault.
I would also question the $$ amount of the judgement. Between state, local and federal funds I cannot in any way believe that the local portion of the cost is $15,000 per year for 2 children.
I think to charge him with grand theft is kind of crazy considering he paid taxes in the community for how long with no school age children. What they should do is calculate how much he paid into the system and subtract it from the $30,000 and he pays the rest as a fine. That seems fair to me. Of course if the city owes him money, the city should pay up.
I'm no expert in this but if the mother was living in the projects there's a good chance she was also collecting welfare payments from the state to help support her children. That money is normally spent in their own district so is also recycled there as well. Seems to me that if you're living in state funded housing you would have to list everyone that is living in that residence and the state would use those statistics to fund their school districts. Now since the children were being sent to another school district it looks as there was a bit of double dipping going on, the sate paying one school district for statistical resources and paying another school district for physical resources.
A 10 day sentence seems like a slap on the wrist for defrauding the state. Having the door slammed in your face on her future goal to teach was a much more harsh punishment and one that does not fit the crime.
On another note, I seem to recall that the No Child Left Behind Act allows for students in failing schools to transfer to higher performing local schools not schools in another district.
You're really not making sense. It would have happened to me if I had done what that woman did. I decided not to take the risk, she decided to go ahead with it.
No one said it's not happening, where did you come up with that? What I did say is that automatically screaming "evil white racists" is ridiculous and racist itself. It happened because she broke the law. It has nothing to do with her race; white people have faced and lost to stupid, unreasonable judges and dealt with unfair and extreme laws as well. Some things are about race but insisting no black person should ever be accused of something illegal just because they're black is absurd.
Making it a race issue draws away the focus from unacceptable school situations that many children have to face every day.
If you didn't follow through with the actions she took-JUST How Do You Know The Same Thing Would Have Happened To?? Racism has always been about favoritism.
If you think Black people are avoiding the law just because they are Black then please look at all the prisons across this country filled to the brim with Black Americans
...if the article is true...what a waste of money and time in the court system...figure there are more important items for the legal system to deal with....
This issue is actually not about race but about wealth. If you have money you can buy a house in the catchment area of a good school where your child will be educated alongside the children of wealthy and upwardly mobile parents.
If you do not have money you live in the projects where the atnosphere is often less positive.
That judge should be jailed. Shame on anybody who agrees with her actions. How can you not see the racism? Here in America you have a right to be wrong, and that right is whats wrong with America politically speaking.
Charles very true. If you have money you can always donate a new Wing, Library or Computers to a school and have your kids attend even if you do not live in that district. I have seen this happen and it sucks but it does happen.
Energy is being wasted focusing on the problem and not the solution. If the schools are bad in your district then you don't look to send your kids to another district, you do whatever it takes to make your schools good.
If you're going to do nothing or wait for the government to fix it for you then you deserve what you get. Positive actions bring about positive results. What does doing nothing bring you?
Children DESERVE a safe place to get an education. In Oklahoma, if you don't like the school district, you file transfer forms, and send your kids to the school you want. I realize that it isn't that way for everyone. I don't believe anyone should be thrown in jail for wanting what's best for their children, but you can bet that if I wasn't pleased with my school district, and they would not allow me to send my kids to another school, I would move.
No doubt and children also DESERVE parents that will take an active role in their schools and education. If more parents would do this then the schools would certainly be safer.
I don't know about Oklahoma but I do know that the No Child Left Behind Act allows for students to transfer out of their failing school and into a better performing school IN THE SAME DISTRICT. Doing things the right way would have allowed for buss transportation as well.
The woman in this situation was not "thrown in jail for wanting what's best" for her children. She was sentenced for circumventing the law which resulted in financial damages to both school districts involved.
@junko She was in school studying to be a teacher, I would hardly call her powerless. And I doubt that she didn't know what she was doing was illegal. Had she moved in with her father and out of public housing she certainly would have avoided the mess she is in.
Now you may think I'm heartless or thoughtless for thinking this but I'm not. I'm a full believer in the Law of Attraction and live my life thinking about what I want and no longer focus on what I don't have.
richard: Most students are powerless and hope education will help them gain power. The powerful's power sometimes is achieved and maintain illegally. (Wall street and Financial Spectulaters). No I don't think you are heartless, but you are out of touch with the underclass it seems. It's easy to pass judgement(as did the judge in the case), if you don't have to focus on what you don't have. I think she was heartless to deny the mother chance to educate herself and gain the power of a better income for her and her girls. I want judge you, you can judge yourself. We will all be judge in time, and I believe that a person can do so much wrong that they will have their hell on earth and hope to die but can't find death.
You seem to blame the judge as doing something wrong. Why? The woman violated the law and was caught - should the judge then place his/her own desires and feelings above the law and give a different verdict, or should the judge give a verdict in line with the law?
The last I heard, judges don't write the laws - they enforce them.
wilderness: The judge in this case and in most cases has discretion. The law in this case has no manditory sentence. The judge choose to make an example of the mother, her father and her children. The judge should give a verdict that is atlease humane. The judge spitefully gave a verdict that ended the mother's hope of being a teacher, that was cruel and unusual. If it is as I say, and it is as I stated, how do you feel about the case?
The mother and father were apparently both guilty of falsifying court documents and grand theft. The verdict is guilty with no other alternative that I can see. I don't believe that a judge has real discretion as to a guilty or not guilty verdict. They often do have discretion as to punishment.
And that punishment, however, is another matter. As I stated above 10 days for theft of $30,000 does not seem excessive, nor does paying it back (although I repeat that the figure seems more than a little high). The really sad part is the loss of her future job, and I would suspect that that is a direct and automatic result of being found guilty of theft, not an additional punishment awarded by the judge.
As an illustration, a local judge here released a rapist recently very much against her desire. It seems the woman in question thought the rapist was her boyfriend and it therefore wasn't rape. Had she thought it was her husband the law specifies it as rape - a "minor" boondoggle in the law, but the judge was not in a position to do anything about the miscarriage of justice; she doesn't make the laws, merely enforces them.
The woman in the OP did the crime, and the judge cannot say "No she didn't because I don't like the law" - he can only say "Guilty".
richard: I believe that she did all she could being powerless. She didn't wait on the goverment.
Choice in education does not work. Just as many people still end up having to go to the 'bad' schools as before, but now they are all people who don't care as much or who are in poverty (who haven't done all the research and so on, or also people who are poorer and can't afford travel costs to go further afield), so the bad schools get even worse.
Surely it would be better to focus on making all schools good schools.
Whatever the rights or wrongs, i think it inappropriate to have the post labelled "black woman" should be purely and simply " a mother". end of story!
@junko Sorry but I disagree. College students are empowered more so than individuals because they are surrounded by like minds with a vigor for responsibility and justice. She was studying to be a teacher, a leader and role model to children. It's rubbish to believe that "anything goes" when you're down and out. That's not civility, that's living on the fringe and avoiding the responsibilities of citizenship.
No, I'm not out of touch with the underclass, it is you that is confounded by this idea that those less fortunate deserve special treatment for their circumstance. It's not your fault, it is a cultural anomaly. Those that don't have blame those that do have. Those that don't have believe that is their station in life and because they believe that, it comes true. This isn't a black and white issue and I'm not making this about race, and it's not about the haves and have not's. It's about believing you have worth instead of believing you are worthless. It's a mindset. That is the difference between poor people and wealthy people. Wealthy people have a mindset that allows them to believe they have worth and they attract even more. Poor people do just the opposite and concentrate on bills and poor health and worry about feeding their children and they attract even more of the same continuing their cycle of poverty.
I urge you to go out and get a copy of The Secret and lean about the laws of attraction. It's undeniable and life changing.
richard: I disagree with you, and your comment began with rubbish, and ended with rubbish. college students are empowered because they surrounded by like minds... That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. That not civility... c'mon man, that's so Beckest. You can't agree with me because you can't think out the box. I don't know what changed your life but I don't think it was a book. I think It was Rush, Beck, and the crew. We Have nots far out number You Haves. I would'nt be surprised if you were a member of the underclass seeking exceptance. Hub on, you don't make sense to me
Sad, but so true; she did commit a felony and race has nothing to do with it. Do some more research into it.
We are a Republic, a nation of laws. I am on her side and we here in Ohio need to fix this. Just not right and our method of paying for public education (via property tax) was declared unconstitutional several years back and it still has not been fixed. This woman put her kids into an affluent community's school district and they are really watching for this type of thing. She needs a full pardon and laws need changed.
Ohio supposedly fixed this at the State Level. There is a program that is supposed to be offsetting districts in low property value communities. Sounds like the Governor and State Legislature have some serious questions to answer. It may also be a misapropriaton at the community level. Who knows. What I do know is that all over the country this type of problem keeps cropping up. All we ever do is throw money at it. I'ts not helping and in some cases the money may not even be getting to the schools.
Seldom have I seen a situation where everyone is in the wrong.
Take it from the top. First, it's nothing less than an obscenity that school systems are as unequal as they are. Mom went to a lot of trouble and wound up in jail for trying to get for her kids the best education she could. No one has suggested that there was NOT a significant difference in the quality of education in the school she SHOULD have gone top vs. the school she sent her kids to. This inequality should give anyone, liberal or conservative serious pause.
Mom was wrong. There are rules in place which allow districts to do planning and funding and staffing. These rules often function by design or accident to segregate along economic and racial lines. This is often legal but unfair and though I understand what Mom did, I do not condone it.
The judge who handed down this verdict needs to be in a line of work more suited to his temperment - like cleaning out septic tanks. The 'criminal' is a black woman who was studying to become a teacher - and a mother who wanted her kids to get a good education. Anyone, on the right or the left would applaud those values and the effort she was putting into improving her life. What she wanted was right - how she went about getting it was wrong. The verdict should have reflected that.
Doug, what verdict would you have suggested? Not sentence - verdict?
Although the link did not specify (at least that I caught), the crime seemed to be falsifying court documents and theft of public funds. She did it. What verdict is reasonable?
Reasonable would be, charging her, give her a fine, and put her on probation, not taking away her chance at teaching. The articule was inflamitory, It should have read "Woman charged for send her children etc. " but hey, that doesn't really sale papers, does it?? I hate that it happened, but like I said before, if I couldn't send my kids to the school I wanted, I would MOVE. Unfortunate what happened, but the law is the law. She obviously knew better, or she wouldn't have falsify records.
You misunderstand, I think. The woman was indeed charged with a crime, went to trial and found guilty. That guilty verdict, as I read the OP article, was what caused the loss of teaching. The judge did not sentence her to that loss - it is not one of the possible sentences he can hand down.
I would guess that the schools will not hire a criminal with that kind of record. It is possible, of course, that the 10 day jail time is what will prevent her from teaching rather than the grand theft; if so that judge should be fired and blacklisted from ever being a judge again.
True, and I understand, but if he made it a misdemeanor instead of a felony, she could still teach. I don't agree with breaking the law, but I do agree with getting an education and bettering yourself. But I also don't understand why someone would put themselves and their children in that situation. If you don't like your school district, and there is no other choice, move.
I doubt he could list a $30,000 theft a misdemeanor!
I also doubt the woman could move, except maybe to live with her father. Extrapolating from the article (which didn't say much except she was black) I gather she is poor, living with public housing assistance and probably welfare. I doubt she works while going to school and raising a child as a single parent.
Basically, she wanted something she couldn't or wouldn't afford (she could quit school and get a job or two jobs if necessary) and tried an end run around the law. It didn't work.
I am not a lawyer - with that in mind - the judge could have found the woman guilty of a lesser charge - something not a felony - and assigned her to do community service as a teacher's assistant.
The judge should have recommended (not ordered) that the desire of this woman to see that her children got an education represents devotion that as a jurist he would encourage, rather than discourage. Unfortunately, a very small minority will drive their kids across town and back every day for a chance at a better life for them. With this in mind, if I was the judge, I would have recommended that the district create a legal avenue for that kind of a cross-the-district-line exemption if the parents will be responsible for transportation.
The theft was what the district gets paid for the children being in school. She didn't take money or property. And even though that specific school district didn't get the money, the other school did.
Given; that you pay much higher taxes to add to the funding from state and federal monies for better schools, that you participate in the PTA and other groups helping the school, that you help in fund raisers and donate time and maybe extra money or equipment (computers?) as well...
Will you be happy when the kids from the projects invade "your" school? Will you provide even more time and money or will you let it degenerate to the same school as the projects have? Will you support laws that require children to go to school in their "own" district or will you invite them to the one you have built up for your own kids?
Different districts have better or worse schools because of the parents involvement, from money to time, in addition to what the state or feds supply. It is not reasonable to require that they not be allowed to do this - that all the extra they give be distributed to all kids that can physically reach them rather than their own children.
Every school should have minimum requirements for the quality of education provided; if a school does not then let the parents of those students do their job and correct the problem, not shove their kids onto someone else to take care of and educate.
If more than minimum requirements are desired, then let the parents purchase those desired requirements instead of stealing them from someone else.
One person can only do so much, I am very active in school, but I can't make other parents do the same. I live in a small district, and still, we don't get the help we need from other parents. Say I buy a computer a year, that's only 12 computers. Will that be enough when the average class is 30? I have been a teachers assitant, substitute teacher, helped in the kitchen, which I might add sucked and they don't get paid enough, I do school parties, help with math, all on my own time, NOT for money, and still I am only one person. So imagine being in a school district that has a lot more students, and no more help from other parents or only a few parents, what are you going to do? Now, I have no complaints about our school, since we are smaller, we have more one on one attention for our children. But putting myself in her position, I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Because our family has a little money and other families don't doesn't make my children more or less special than someone else's children.
Christy, you make my point better than I could. You, and a handful of others, make a difference in your district.
"imagine being in a school district that has a lot more students, and no more help from other parents or only a few parents" - you will be exactly in that position if masses of kids from other districts come to your school because you have made that difference, but your work will no longer be of much value considering the size of the student body.
You have built, with your efforts, a decent school, but if it doubles in size with no additional help from new parents it will no longer be the school district you helped to build. You deserve to keep the school (district) your efforts have produced without the addition of large numbers of other parents bringing their kids in to take advantage of your work without adding anything themselves.
You're probably right, one person cannot do it all. But how many of those other parents have YOU personally approached for help. How many of them have you told that you are drowning there and would really appreciate if they could volunteer an hour of their time to make their school a better place?
Many people assume that other parents are just too busy or don't care as much but that's not true. Many parents are looking for that easy in. They're not accustomed to volunteer work and wouldn't know where to start.
For many working parents, physically helping out in the school is an impossibility but providing a few extra dollars each week to a running fundraiser would certainly help.
Those parents that are doing a lot for the school already can be just a bit more vocal and pull more parents in. If you're already starting out at NO then there is only one direction you can move.
have you seen this?
The Lancaster High School is segregating students by race, then further by gender. The experiment is based on statistics that indicate same-race classes with strong same-race role models led to better academic results. Your thoughts?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … z1CFKpuTfc
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … sults.html
Being as how we the people are so perfect we follow the letter of the law so when we get caught speeding we insist that the police office give us a ticket because we did violate the law. If commit so sort of crime then we voluntarily turn outselves in because we believe that if one violates the law then need to do the punishment associate with it People I'm sure call the IRS when they have revealed all the income they made that year- PLEASE
You know, if I was speeding and got a ticket, then I deserved it, but if I was speeding and didn't get caught, no, I don't go and turn myself in. Because I am human. And I do turn in all of our income to the IRS because if you don't, it will bite you in the behind. But putting my children at risk is not something I'm willing to do. I do feel for the woman, I want the best for my children, I don't think she should have gotten a felony charge. But if it was me, I would have moved to the district.
You know I can go along with your resolve but you know as well as I do we can't always get the things we want. There is always something in the way, maybe it's money, maybe it's red tape but just because we have laws don't in and of themselves mean they are right or fair.
I will confess that I lied and cheated to move my children from a poor state school to a good state school. The UK law has been changed since I did these things to clarify that what I did then would now be a criminal offence. I have no regrets.
The middle and wealthy can always buy good state education by buying or renting in the right area. This woman's crime was to be poor and to have aspiration for herself and for her child.
Could I suggest that those who wish to cast the first stone clarify exactly what they would have done in her shoes.
The difference being, Charles that if you were caught, I'm sure you would accepted your punishment. The black female is not even willing to accept that she did something wrong - that she broke the law.
Further, the way I read the article, had the female in question (already getting a free ride at tax-payer expense) simply removed her kids, it would have been a non-issue. She deliberately FORCED the district to spend time and money to prosecute her.
I just received this link from a girlfriend of mine on facebook. You can check it out if you're interested. It includes a bit of the story as to why this happened to her.
http://www.change.org/petitions/gov-joh … ng-her-kid
"As punishment for doing everything in her power to keep her children safe, Ms. Williams-Bolar, a single mother with no previous criminal record, has been made a felon by Ohio judge Patricia Cosgrove."
That makes it a biased article. Environments that are black are not inherently bad, nor environments that are white inherently good - as the comment from the biased reporter seems to suggest
I notice that neither Julie2 or S Leretash have responded to the explicit challenge in my earlier posting.
If you had been in this woman's shoes what would you have done about your child's education?
Let’s suppose the following James: The female in question gets a pass on her lawbreaking … and she continues to send her kids to the “good” school. When her kids graduate and mother can’t afford college, no, a “good” college, she robs a bank at gunpoint. When she’s arrested she claims she only did it cuz her children needed to go to a "good" college. To everyone but a liberal, this female would be a loathsome crook, deserving of scorn and sever punishment. To a liberal, America should be apologizing to her for forcing her to rob the bank - so her kids could go to a "good" college.
Oh, and as for me James, if I were "in her shoes"? I would follow the law. There's no point in having laws if people won't follow them, or judges won't enforce them.
wow, that's a bad analogy.
Restricting freedom by mandating your child go to a crappy school is Tyrannical and the government should be ashamed at what it's done to the education system in this country.
Wow. I do stand by that analogy. I’m a stickler for the law. This is not a crime of just moral turpitude. She was in fact breaking local law - a law which others were/are required to follow. What are you suggesting, ML King’s justification in Birmingham: “one has [a] moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws?” Gotta be kidding…
“go to a crappy school”
Did I miss something? Where did “crappy school” come from?
Ms Leretash - I do not know the circumstances of the black child's school. I know why I transferred my children.
If your 9 year old child comes home every day with bruises, and the head teacher says she is not going to do anything about it, what do you do? How long do you allow your child to suffer?
If your child is at an unsatisfactory school you say you will obey the law even if your child's education is poor.
At least on your scenario the black kid qualifies for college - he might even win a scholarship.
Us liberals (or in my case socialist) would like all schools to be good, but we are not pretending that they all are. So it comes back to my question of what would you do?
You say you would rather your child suffer than you break the law. It would be interesting to know where your breaking point is, but rough on your kids to find out.
I'm adopted. My Birthmom has to send her kids to a mostly Mexican school. Which means that my siblings, who are white, are picked on BECAUSE they are white. She can't put them into another school so the kids always have to fight back and show that they won't be bullied.
I saw this woman on Dr. Phil today and she made me angry. Why is that she thinks she still did right when the law obviously said it was wrong? Why shouldn't she be jailed? She got a lienient sentence of ten days instead of 9 years. She got off easy.
It sucks to be her, but she shouldn't have falsified anything on that document. If she wanted her kids in a better school, she should have moved into the neighborhood.
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