All Dead from the "Quest"

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   manlypoetrymanposted 13 years ago

   All 4 kidnap victims aboard the "Quest" were found dead. Somali Pirates to blame. What will be the retribution?

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      AnnCeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe it's time for air power to take out their nests.

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         junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Children should be seen and not heard

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            junkoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Retribution??? What do you think it should be?

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I suppose Obama will appologize for America's past transgressions as a sorry excue for a citizen of the world... then he'll have Hillary write a really angry letter to the pirates threatening them with even more angry corespondence if they don't learn to behave and stop killing their hostages while stealing.

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         AnnCeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Nah, I think he'll take them on if his wife doesn't tell him to put the light saber down again.
         
         

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         manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That sounds way to "harsh".

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            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe... I'm just angry at what Obama has done to the image of America in the world! Has it come to this that a gang of two bit rag tag pirates have no fear of American military might? Obama should launch a bombing run on the pirates and send a message... there will be consequences for killing Americans... or at least there should be!

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               manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I agree

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  A gang of two bit rag tag pirates who have no fear of American military might . . . because they have no fear of death?

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                     lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well we should send them on their way!

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You did, and caused the deaths of the hostages!

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                     manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Ok...and your point is?

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        The point is, if your enemy is not afraid of death what threat to them is death? If you don't have death as a deterrent, what have you left?

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                           manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           well then...I guess the only thing left to do is to just quake in your boots!

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                              John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Well you need to remember that they do not routinely kill hostages, they aren't interested, they want money and killing is not profitable.
                              The news in the UK says that the US navy opened fire on the pirates and as  a result they killed the hostages.
                              
                              Maybe a little foreign aid might be a better option than violence.

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                              1. 81

                                 manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Who do we not give foriegn aid to...and isn't that blackmail?

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                                    John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Well, not the Somalis I guess
                                    I'm not sure if it could be viewed as black mail or not but surely better than death?

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                                 lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Brilliant idea!!! Let's reward foreigners that kill Americans with cash!!! Should we also apologize for not sending money sooner?? We should destroy their entire village with fire bombs and every one of their boats we can find.

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                                    John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Fine, but don't expect any hostages to be recovered alive.

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                           C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           A bunch of dead pirates who were not afraid of death before or after...death? Letter of Marque thats the answer.

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            2. 61

               DTR0005posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Lady, Somalia is your Libertarian dream - a land without government - pure anarchy. But maybe we can cook up some false intel regarding weapons of mass destruction - I think we need another decade of misadventure.

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      TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I hadn't heard the latest on this...how horrible.
      
      How terrified those folks must have been...

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2. 66

   AnnCeeposted 13 years ago

   So what do you think, big guy?

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   BillyDRitchieposted 13 years ago

   There will be no meaningful retribution, not from this adminstration anyway......

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   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   I guess the pirates didn't want any bibles.

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      manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They won't need 'em...where they're going!

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   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Hillary Clinton has been on CNN quite a bit this morning. Unfortunately I have only the picture with the sound turned down so don't know what she is saying.
   Military retribution may make us feel vindicated, but may backfire and cause escalated attacks.
   If we could "settle" everything with military action, we would not need diplomats or a Secretary of State, would we?

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      manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The Marine Corp was sent in a long time ago...to deal with piracy. They put a lid on it then...they can do it again.

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6. 77

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   So where were the Marines when these American couples were taken hostage then?
   And why was it the Navy SEALS who were sent in to try to rescue them?
   I am not saying the Marines failed!! I'm just curious if anyone knows the answer.

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      manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "So where were the Marines when these American couples were taken hostage then?'
      
      That's what I'd like to know, too...?

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      C.J. Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is NOT the job of the Marines to search the high seas for pirates....
      
      It is the Navy's job to ensure that the sea lanes are open. The Marine Corps is a Department of the Navy. They are an expeditionary force.

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7. 77

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Is it just me, or have there been quite a few Americans who wandered into dangerous waters/territory and got taken hostage (or killed) recently?
   There was the group of hikers who got arrested in Iran -- they let the woman come home, finally.
   There was the couple on their honeymoon jet skiing on a lake in Texas who entered into Mexican territory and the husband got shot (unless this story has since been refuted and found to be a set-up by the wife???)
   And now these two couples on a "sailing trip of a lifetime" distributing bibles.

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   1. 81

      manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      MM...No it is not you...granted there are some places on the planet that one should not venture off into. That is just common sense.
      
      However, the folks that were jet skiing on a lake that is shared between Mexico and Texas...Now that is not a reason to got shot at...by no means or by any form of rationalizing.
      
      Still...what will we do...when the places on this Earth that one should not go travelling in....keeps growing...and growing?

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8. 81

   manlypoetrymanposted 13 years ago

   John...Oh John...I'm not sure if a little b_tt-kicking ahead of time wouldn't have also resolved the problem at hand.

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, I'm not sure either.

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         manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well...News flash...John 'ol boy...Neither of us have a say in it. I don't think diplomacy works with some people...and you sound like you're opposed to anything that would be any show of force...

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I'm not really into gun boat diplomacy.
            You need to look at the whole history of Somali piracy and the history of Somalia and provoking pirates to kill might no longer seem the best solution.

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            1. 81

               manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm trying to understand...how it is easier to feel sorry for the Somalian Pirates then it is for the persons on board the "Quest". That escapes me...but based on the replies to this thread...I can see why every single thing on the planet gets so confusing.

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Why do you say that it is easier to feel sorry for the Somali pirates? I don't.
                  Having some understanding of the problem does not constitute approval or anything else. Neither does thinking that nuking them is a bad idea suggest sympathy.
                  It's called taking the broader view, that war isn't the best option.

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                  1. 81

                     manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Ok...after all the "think-tank" political posturing and the "wishy-washy" strong arming has commenced....what will actually have to occur to resolve this problem? Or should we just be afraid of the Somalian Pirates and what they are capable of...from now until forever!

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I would suggest taking away the causes of the piracy would be a good start.

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                           Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           That's so dull though, and it requires understanding, patience and probably a sacrifice of some sort. It's not like we're after comprehensive solutions here or anything. Their problems are their problems, not our's. Should their problems become a problem for us, then we just want to shoot the suckers. It's sooooooo much easier.
                           
                           Where's John Wayne? We want action! We want glory! We want vengeance!
                           
                           And those somali pirates should be hung for disrupting the Lord's work.

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                              manlypoetrymanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              That's right...You sure got it all figured out, Pandora. Course we have never done anything like humanitary aid before....for anybody. What a revolutionary thought. Gee whillakers. How mean of us. Ok...let them go on about there way...We have not fully taken them under our wing yet...they are allowed to kill off a few here and there in passing...juz' cause we haven't done our part. Whoops...our bad! Hope we didn't disrupt there killing or looting or kidnapping or ransom spree. Maybe...we can send some more poor unfortunates over there sailing nearby next week...so they don't run out. Maybe that is soooo much easier, also...

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                                 TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Perfect...

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9. 60

   Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago

   what the hell were people doing in / near Somalia to begin with?
   
   WTF?
   
   And half the people on this forum want to launch a war over 4 people who idiotically chose to go to such a f-ing dangerous place?
   
   really?

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hear hear.
      
      Note, yes I'm in total agreement with Evan on this

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Oh so it's okay for Mexicans and others to just stroll into America illegally without consequence, but free people shoul avoid travel in international waters so criminals can occupy it?
      The purpose of our government is to keep us free they have a right and a duty to extract justice on those pirates! We pay a lot of money in taxes for our military might and I can't think of a better more justified use of force than ridding those waters of that scum!

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         John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I suggest you read Ryankett's very fulsome explanation of the situation and then you might be in a position to howl for blood but until then, please don't.

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            lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I am aware of the plight of Somali fisherman, but I don't see how that justifies murder! Somalis have to get their act together and form a government that can respond to situations involving their sovereignty in international courts in a legal fashion and petition world governments for aid. Piracy is not the answer and certainly neither is murder.

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               John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               But they don't murder normally. The hostages in this case were murdered after the US navy had attacked the pirates.
               They take hostages on a commercial basis, a dead hostage is worthless to them.

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               1. 67

                  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No, they were murdered then the US personnel boarded The Quest when they heard shots according to a Washington Post account.  They were still in the middle of negotiations.  I know your anti-american mindset would find that hard for you to believe but there it goes.

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                     John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't have an anti American outlook, I just don't watch Fox News.
                     
                     That is how our press reported it, that'll do for me.

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                        Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        If you had read my post with some attention I stated the Washington Post not Fox news.

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      Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Those people were not in Somalia for a pleasure cruise.  Their boat was hijacked off the coast of Oman then sailed to Somalian waters.  Before you make any assumptions, read up on it first.

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10. 0

    ryankettposted 13 years ago

    It is the only viable route for World Food Programme shipments.
    
    The reason why piracy has risen in Somalia is, according to the United Nations, because illegal foreign fishing has decimated their fish stocks. Developed nations have also dumped toxic waste in their waters.
    
    Ultimately, the once thriving fishing industry is dead as a result. Subsequently the pirates and the people in their towns go hungry, so what do they do? They rob foreign vessels using their now unprofitable fishing boats.
    
    A hungry man is an angry man. I watched a documentary on Somalian pirates which quite clearly showed that proceeds are used to feed the towns and villages that the pirates are from, there were certainly no rolex watches or sports cars.
    
    When there is nothing worth robbing they hold hostages instead, held as an asset to be exchanged when they run out of food, they currently have 650.
    
    If I were a man with hungry children and with my livelyhood stolen I would probably consider taking a machine gun onto my fishing boat too.
    
    Somalia has a GDP of around $600 per capita per year, that is less than I will make from Amazon this month. Take away the only thing that they needed, food, and you have people who want to take that back. 73% of the population live on less than $2 a day.
    
    There are Indian, British, Russian, Chinese and American navy boats patrolling the waters of Somalia to combat the pirates. How much does that cost? Probably far more than would be necessary to feed them.
    
    What you also have to appreciate is that the pirates almost exclusively operate in waters which can be considered Somalian waters, not International waters, yet western ships pass through their waters rather than around them for no reason other than to save time and money. If the Somalian government wished to object to the passage of boats through those waters they would be legally permitted to do so, and they would be legally permitted to cease the boats and their assets too.
    
    Since the piracy problem got out of hand the foreign fishing trawlers have been scared away and the fishing catches have begun to improve again.
    
    Ultimately the US or any other country has no true right to kill Somali pirates whilst western countries illegally fish in Somalian waters and send trade vessels through non-international waters without express consent and some economic benefit to the country.
    
    All these "pirates" have done is taken up the job of patrolling and protecting Somalian waters whilst their government has a serious lack of sovereign control. If your government collapsed tomorrow then people in Florida would probably have to resort to blowing up Mexican fishing boats.
    
    There are two sided to every argument, as they say.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       "The reason why piracy has risen in Somalia is, according to the United Nations, because illegal foreign fishing has decimated their fish stocks. Developed nations have also dumped toxic waste in their waters."
       
       No doubt. Another reason is that piracy has paid off handsomely with only moderate risk. And the Somali "government" ain't the greatest.

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          lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with you Ralph! The motivation is money pure and simple. Ransoms have risen steadily and currently average over 3 million pounds according to the daily mail.
          
          I don't buy the argument about the fishing grounds any longer. That may be why some have decided to go into piracy but that isn't what motivates the pirates... from the daily mail
          
          "The pirates from Puntland in northern Somalia are not hardline Islamists, and the fact the Adams carried Bibles was not likely to have been a problem. Pirates in Puntland are known to spend their ransom spoils on alcohol, drugs and prostitutes."
          
          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … first.html
          
          If these were just poor fisherman wouldn't they be using their spoils to support their families and neighborhoods? No these people are thugs, criminals, and murders, morally bankrupt scum that deserve nothing but death!

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11. 67

    Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

    As tragic as these deaths are and as abhorrent those scum pirates are, they do not merit or deserve our country's attention.  No action is required from our military and there shouldn't be as this is an ordinary crime.  However, I have no objection to having, say a group of ex navy seals, do some reconnaissance and do what they can to eliminate the nest of pirates in Somalia.  No official connection to the federal government of course, just some scores to settle from some Americans to Somali pirates.

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    Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

    According to a Washington Post article, the Somali pirates hijacked The Quest when it was off the coast of Oman, then sailed the ship to Somalian waters.  Apparently the Somali pirates were observing the yacht and dispatched a smaller boat from the mother ship to capture it.  Clearly, the Somali pirates' actions were premeditated.

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    lady_love158posted 13 years ago

    Look we just can't allow thus to continue. Its not just these 4 people that were killed its not being able to navigate freely in international waters. I'm not advocating a boots on the ground mission to install democracy in Somalia, if those peole wish to kill each other fine! But some well placed cruise missiles and perhaps a few drones should do the trick... if not perhaps another version of shock and awe will wake them up! We can't allow such scum to kill our citizens without consequence.

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    Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago

    Yeh I don't think we got that news in america, John. The article I read did not state that either, and though I don't recall where I read it at, I assure you it wasn't fox news.
    
    Wow. I feel like a citizen of china.
    
    I just find it sad that God didn't save them. I can only guess he was displeased. Maybe they ate some shrimp.
    
    I'm sorry they suffered. I'd be hugely upset if we started another war over it.
    
    And you know, I thought vengeance was the lord's and all that. Of course I also thought Jesus advocated the strong helping the weak, still trying to understand how that one never seems to transfer over in the new birth of christians.
    
    Geez I hope the bibles made it okay! What a loss of such a worthy cause..

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       Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I find it hard to believe that you found the deaths sad.  Considering at one point you said that you didn't see human life any more valuable than an animal's.  Well I'm sure you will be happy that no more shrimp will be eaten by those four people any more.

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          Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I still don't see human life as being innately 'better' or more 'valuable' than the lives of animals.
          
          Doesn't mean I don't play the same survival game they do, however.
          
          In fact, I made a big old pan of shrimp etouffee Monday night in a white roux. I don't care so much for the red version.
          
          It was delicious!
          
          Of course I'm sorry those people suffered that way and died. I'm sure the whole ordeal was horrifying, and I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through such a thing. This despite the fact that I think their mission was basically folly at best and that they had no business being there.

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             Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Yes I can sense how sorry you are by that earlier post.

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       John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I used Fox News as shorthand for biased press, my bad.

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          Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Oh yeah because the british press is so not biased.
          
          
          
          

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             John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Murdoch has his finger in the British Press no doubt about it.

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                Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                But the BBC has their whole hand in it.

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                   John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   The BBC about the least biased of the lot.

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                      Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      

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    Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago

    Great post by Ryan, by the way.

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    Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years ago

    No need to speculate on what will happen. Remember last week?
    
    "A U.S. judge sentenced a Somali pirate to 33 years and nine months in prison on Wednesday for his role in the 2009 seizure of the Maersk Alabama container ship in the Indian Ocean." (Feb 17, 2011 Reuters).
    
    This newest bunch will also be hauled back to the U.S. and imprisoned or executed. Extremists and pirates may not fear death but they all fear Western prisons.
    
    The pirates are getting more sophisticated - last week the Brits took down a stolen fishing vessel that was acting as a "mother ship" to pirate small craft, which let them operate farther from their bases.
    
    As with many issues, there just is no quick fix.
    
    http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations- … rees_h.htm

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       Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Not only are they getting more sophisticated, it is violent criminal gangs that have taken over piracy from the humble desperate fisherman, according to Wing Commander Paddy O'Kennedy, spokesman for the European Union's anti-piracy force.

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