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Obama releases long form birth document, rips 'silliness' of debate

  1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
    OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago

    HOT DOG, NOW I HOPE THIS ISSUE IS OVER.

    BREAKING NEWS:


    WASHINGTON — Saying he has long been “bemused” and “puzzled” over the fascination the controversy surrounding his birth certificate, President Obama on Wednesday released a copy of the long-form version of the document, saying the country does not have time for the "distraction" and "silliness" of the issue.

    Obama noted that during a recent stretch where he and Republicans were laying out their budget visions for the future, the primary news story has been about the so-called “birther” controversy.

    “We’ve got some enormous challenges out there,” Obama said. He said he was “confident” about the ability to meet those challenges but added, “we’re not going to be able to do it if we are distracted.”

    Obama said he realized the release of the certificate would not satisfy everyone, but said the political discourse could not be helped by “sideshows” and “carnival barkers” continuing to talk about the issue.

    'Long form' version
    Prior to the president's remarks, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney handed out copies of the “long form” birth certificate to the media. Previously, only the president’s shorter form certificate had been made available, something that has spurred theories that Obama was not born in the United States.

    White House officials have said the issue was settled long ago. But so-called "birthers" opposed to Obama have kept the issue alive. Potential Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump recently began questioning why Obama hadn't ensured the long form was released.

    Trump, for his part, claimed credit for the release of the document during a media event in New Hampshire. The developer said he was "honored" of his role in the controversy.

    "I've accomplished something nobody else has accomplished," in getting the birth certificate made public. Trump said he would want to see it before proclaiming it authentic. "I want to look at it but I hope it’s true."

    Trump also questioned why it has taken so long for the White House to release the document.

    White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer said Obama believed the distraction over his birth certificate wasn't good for the country.

    AFP - Getty Images file Sources: Petraeus to be nominated to head CIA
    CIA director Leon Panetta is to take over at the Pentagon and Gen. David Petraeus is to be nominated to head the CIA, NBC News confirmed Wednesday.

    Obama says birth certificate had become a distraction
    Trump takes credit for birth certificate release
    Obama heads to Chicago for Oprah, NYC for money
    Fed seen in no rush to tighten policy

    "It may have been good politics and good TV, but it was bad for the American people and distracting from the many challenges we face as a country,” Pfeiffer said.

    Pfeiffer said the president asked his counsel to go through the legal options of asking the state of Hawaii to make an exception to release a form of birth certificate not normally made public. Pfeiffer said the state agreed to do so, “in part because of the tremendous volume of requests they had been getting.”
    Story: Trump: I have ‘real doubts’ Obama was born in U.S.
    The "certificate of live birth" released Wednesday morning contained the signatures of the attending physician and the Local and State Registrars. It also contains the name of the hospital where Obama was born, Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital.

    Vote: Will the release put the 'birther' issue to rest?

    NBC News reported that the president requested the release of the birth certificate last week and that the White House counsel personally traveled to Hawaii to receive it.

    The issue has continued to be part of the political dialogue despite a raft of evidence showing that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.

    In recent weeks, public opinion polls have shown a striking number of Americans, especially Republicans, who said they could not be sure that the president was born in the United States. The Constitution requires the president to be a natural born citizen to hold the office.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42779923/ns … hite_house

    1. profile image61
      C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Brilliant move on the President's part! He comes off as taking the high road and appearing "Presidential". Politics at it's best.

      1. sabrebIade profile image82
        sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I see it as him coming off as looking like Trump "bullied" him into it, which makes Trump look strong and Obama look weak.
        This has been going on since 2008, but as soon as Trump gets involved in 2011, the long form is released.

        1. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Most rational people will see Trump as a stain on the bottom of Obama's shoe.

          1. sabrebIade profile image82
            sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I'm already seeing "Trump can get things done" comments on the internet.
            Don't underestimate mob mentality.

            1. thebrucebeat profile image59
              thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Didn't you say you saw it as a Trump victory?
              Are you part of the mob?
              There will be a vocal minority of sychophants that find this a Trump triumph, but the independents will flee from him and all the others that have made these accusations in the past, which is about half of the GOP.
              Trump has yet to face the anger of people who are disgusted of his claims of "investigators" and "missing" birth certificates, and all the other trumped up accusations he has made.  He will.  Interviewers will hold him accountable for his irresponsible rhetoric, and he will become a pariah.
              The "mob" will start to look like a coffee klatch.

        2. JOE BARNETT profile image60
          JOE BARNETTposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          trump was a gnat at the picnic. obama tried to ignore his nonsense but, ended this with a swat! If that's all the ammo trump has for competing with obama he'd best not even get out of bed!

        3. profile image61
          C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          True, however I'm not completely convinced of Trump's motivation.
          On one hand I think he's using his money and celebrity to basically bully the POTUS. On the other hand, is he serious about running? Don't know. Of course there will always be the chance that it's something more senister, like he's a Democrat plant. I'm sure someone will flesh that out and run with it.

        4. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It was a good political move to make impotent the cry of his most popular opponent in the recent polls.

    2. hottopics profile image56
      hottopicsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oly

      I wish you were right, this needs to go away. But I can already see what people are going to say. They will say this is not a birth certificate, it is a copy of the original form for the birther document. They will also say that if this was a real birth certificate it would have been filled out and signed by the doctor first, not by the mother first. She would sign first because she applied for it and then had it co signed. And was that signature the actuall delivery doctor.
      Will this never end. Lets hope so Oly

    3. OLYHOOCH profile image61
      OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well, this was like pulling teeth, but, here it is and this should be over, finally

      As far as I am concerned, I will stop regarding to Obama as, Mr Obama and now, to me, he is, The President Of The United States Of America.

      Now, watch how bad these people try to pull this apart. I hope not. I hope this issue is over, over, and over.

      OLY

      1. thebrucebeat profile image59
        thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Good for you, OLY.

      2. hottopics profile image56
        hottopicsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        He has always been President of the United States to me despite this birhter deal. I do not agree with most of his polices and actions, but I respect the office and all who serve, no matter who it is. To bad we all could not do that.

        1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
          OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Hawaii slams door on birth certificates
          2 days before Trump questions, no problem getting long-form document. Today, no way


          Read more: Hawaii slams door on birth certificates http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=292053#ixzz1KjmLKNO1

          1. thebrucebeat profile image59
            thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            OLY,
            You really need to wean yourself off of WND.  It is part of why you got hoodwinked by this non-story about the birth certificate.  They are not a credible source of vetted information, and will only feed your fears.
            This is not an opinion.  They have been proven repeatedly to be factually challenged.  Their support of this BC foolishness is just another example of their bias.
            You said you hoped this put it to bed.  WND will not allow it to be put to bed.  Doesn't that tell you something?

            1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
              OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I thought ,The title was good, thats all.

              It is a rule here that a person give a link for source, I did that.

              If they want to read it, fine. If not, thats fine too.

              I am not in love with, WND either. Like you say, most of it is, WIND.

              OLY

              1. thebrucebeat profile image59
                thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                LOL!
                Good line, OLY.

      3. DTR0005 profile image83
        DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oly, I am sad to think it too all of this for you to recognize him "the president of the United States," but I respect you for giving in to reason.

        1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
          OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I have heard it, and now, I have seen it. Good enough for me now and should be good for all.

          He is my President Of The United States Of America.

          Now, let's get our troops home. We do not belong in these war's.

          Let's work on the Debt, Help us here get back on our feet in The United States.

          Get a Government that works, For The People, not Against them

          In 2012, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Study into the person you are going to vote for.

          When you study, find out, WHO you might like, WHAT are there views, WHY would they be good for our country, and last of all, What do you, The People, WAN"T.

          OLY

    4. LRCBlogger profile image59
      LRCBloggerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Birthers never quit, they now focus on his college transcripts and records, etc.  I guess maybe they think they can smear his college records.
      Olyhooch, you said it well, let's get out of these 10 year + wars, lets work on this absolutely absurdly high debt, let's work for the people.  Focusing on birtherism is just silly.

  2. sabrebIade profile image82
    sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago

    Look, I have never cared one way or the other.
    If the man was born in Lower Slobovia I wouldn't care about it as long as he was a good president.

    Philip J. Berg, Andy Martin, Robert L. Schulz, Michael Savage, G. Gordon Liddy, Brian Sussman, Lars Larson, Bob Grant, Jim Quinn, Rose Tennent, Barbara Simpson, Mark Davis, Fred Grandy, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, Chuck Norris, Senator Richard Shelby, Congressman Roy Blunt, Congresswoman Jean Schmidt, Representative Nathan Deal, Sarah Palin, Senator David Vitter, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Representative Michele Bachmann and Lieutenant Colonel Lakin have questioned President Obama's citizenship for the past three years.
    But when Trump does it, the document gets released.

    1. thebrucebeat profile image59
      thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How many of your list were suggesting they were running for president?
      Now the GOP frontrunner is a punchline.
      Seems like good timing to me.

    2. I am DB Cooper profile image70
      I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps a brilliant strategy by the president if he's trying to make Donald Trump look strong. He'd rather face Trump than a real politician like Huckabee or Romney. Trump doesn't have support from moderates, who see him as a tacky clown, and his political ideals could best be described as "fluid". I think at one point or another he has described each of the last five presidents as the "worst president ever". His only stance that is clearly defined is that whoever is in charge of the country at any given time is doing a terrible job. Even GOP idol Ronald Reagan was not immune to this, although Trump has predictably developed a more admiring view of Reagan as he tries to grab the Republican base.

      Of course, by releasing the long form he's also forced Trump's hand. Trump can either continue the birther cause and appear more crazy, or he can abandon it and move on to the real issues. That can be both good and bad. It's good for Trump because he's not he one making the decisions, so he can always just say he would have done things differently. It's bad for Trump because he'll constantly be fighting against his own words from the past. Are there any major issues that Trump hasn't made contradictory statements about?

      Looking at his history, it's hard to even tell where he falls on the political spectrum, which will probably prevent him from getting votes from the far right or the far left. He won't get votes from most liberals because he's trying to run as a Republican. That leaves him with the Republican voters who believe he's a Republican and maybe a small piece of the moderates who enjoy his TV show. That's not enough to win an election.

      1. profile image61
        C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Like your analysis. However, I would never under estimate the voters habit of voting for celeb's regardless of their qualifications. Look at the Govenator.....Certainly Trump is better qualified than Arnold. I think the only thing holding trump back is that he has never held elected office. The voting public doesn't seem to like Presidential candidates who have never held public office.

  3. sabrebIade profile image82
    sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago

    A lot of the list I consider nut-jobs myself.
    I'm just saying I don't think now was the time to release the document.
    It may give Trump a look of importance.

    BTW...I voted for Obama, BC and all.
    And I wouldn't vote for Trump with a gun put to my head.

    I didn't mean to come off looking as though I supported Trump at all.

    1. thebrucebeat profile image59
      thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Phew!
      You had started to scare me.
      I understand you concerns, but I think they will be unfounded.  Trump will have to answer for obvious lies he was telling, and his credibility will go into freefall.  I wouldn't be surprised if his show gets cancelled, in spite of its rating.  He is going to take a pounding.

      1. sabrebIade profile image82
        sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        NP.
        I looked back at what I had posted and saw how it could be interpreted as supporting Trump.
        I didn't mean that at all. 
        I actually laughed when I heard he was running for President.

        1. canadawest99 profile image60
          canadawest99posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          OLY, why don't you start researching something new and important now, like how the U.S. will pay back its 100 trillion dollar debt to the world?   How about that head scratcher??

          1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
            OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Don't rush me. I'm on it. Just keep up with me. One thing at a time.

            OLY

            PS, while you are waiting, you can read my new post on, PASSPORTS.

            OLY

        2. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I was thrilled.  Few people could make the chasm between the two sides quite as clear as Trump.

  4. Daniel Carter profile image89
    Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago

    Of course Trump would take credit for this action, because he is completely incapable of doing anything of real value or note to aid in America's recovery. Trump is a mosquito bite on the arse of America. He has no real power or value, that I can see. He is as much a greedy opportunist now as he has always been.

    One thing that is certain: If Trump really does run for president, he will be the best fodder for jokes we've had since Sarah Palin. I can't wait!

    1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
      OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Get a load of this reply I just got in,

      I don't get it......I keep hearing that a "certificate of live birth" is not any good and that it's not the same as an original "Birth Certificate" with a notary stamp,etc

      OLY.

      1. canadawest99 profile image60
        canadawest99posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Birthers = Tea Party in Disguise = People stuck in the 1930s who can't accept a black/interracial person as president.

      2. DTR0005 profile image83
        DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oly, you seem like a reasonable man - what do the better angels of your nature tell you about the legitimacy of the certificate?

  5. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    What do you think this will do to the next issue you bring up Oly?

    May 17th is it?

    NOW, we are supposed to take you seriously?

    You shot yourself in your own foot.

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      20 seconds ago..that didn't take long.

      Now it's attack the Democrats in Congress, right?

      I never forgive or forget in politics...

      You won't live this down Oly. Your credibility is shot, from my pov.

      1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
        OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well, thats OK with me, LMC.

        For the rest of us out here, I am not even going to make a post on this. I said this would happen, and guess what, It's The Donald, again.

        I have seen what I have been waiting for, and that is good enough for me.

        If any of you wan't to view this link, go for it. I've got my answer.


        Trump To Obama: Now Release Your College Records.

        http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ … cords.html

        1. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Trump said that if Obama released his BC then Trump would release his financial records.
          Wonder when we can expect that.

  6. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    AHAHAHAHAHA--it's a psy-op world.

    They will live to regret their actions.

    For whatever reason, WHOEVER is behind it *bibi* *cough*--

    Dirt-bags always find other dirt.

    1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
      OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just on more question, WHO'S BARRY SOETOSE??

      OLY

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        He plays third base for the Cubs?

        1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
          OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Who is on first, and, What's on second.

          Well, you should know me by now. Nothing, get's by me.

          OLY

      2. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Better question is who is Orly Taitz?
        I'm surprised with your knack for discovery and questioning things, you never bothered to find out anything about her...just took her word.

        Odd. For a truth-searcher, that is.

  7. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    And a supposed patriot. Here's this woman tearing down your pres, and you say--Hey-she must be right.

    Maybe we should aks (s/o to Russsshhhhh) Who is Oly?

    1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
      OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      OH, just think about it. When you were born, what name was on your BC.

      Give me a break. Must have been a type-oh, or error.

      That's the problem today.

      Nobody pay's attention. You don't do your homework. It even got by Trump, or did it.

      Chapter two coming to you town, LOL.

      The title will be, WHO'S BARRY SOETOSE??

      OLY

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This wasn't your first Obama-Basher. 

        And I do plenty of homework on things that matter to me.

        Obviously, you are stuck on bringing down Obama...that's why I ask, who is Oly?

  8. tritrain profile image74
    tritrainposted 6 years ago

    It was silly.

    It deflected from the important issues gripping the nation and world.

    Debate over.

    1. AnnCee profile image70
      AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Silly?   Do you mean addlepated?

  9. AnnCee profile image70
    AnnCeeposted 6 years ago

    I'm amused, Obama said he was bemused. . .

    bemused

    adjective

    Definition of BEMUSED

    suffering from mental confusion <new federal regulations that the easily bemused should make no attempt to read and understand>

    Synonyms addle, addled, addlepated, bedeviled, befogged, befuddled, bemused, bewildered, bushed [chiefly Australian], confounded, confused, dazed, distracted, dopey (also dopy), fogged, mixed-up, muddleheaded, muzzy, pixilated (also pixillated), punch-drunk, punchy, raddled, shell-shocked, silly, slaphappy, spaced-out (or spaced), spacey (also spacy), stunned, stupefied, zonked, zonked-out

    Related Words senseless, unconscious

    Near Antonyms alert, conscious

    Antonyms clearheaded, unconfused

    source: Merriam Webster

    Personally I think he's more pixilated and muddleheaded.  big_smile




    Can't believe how fitting the example usage is.

    1. habee profile image90
      habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps the POTUS is bemused!

      Anyhoo, I hope this shuts up the birthers! It won't, of course - not the hardcore ones, anyway.

      1. AnnCee profile image70
        AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Won't shut up the ones who are amused!  big_smile  This is the most amusing president ever.  He said he needed to clear away the silliness that had him bemused so he could get down to serious business. 

        Guess what was on his schedule today.   A flight to Chicago to tape an Oprah show.  Then a flight to New York for two fund raisers.

        1. DTR0005 profile image83
          DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And your apparent political belief system could be something George Orwell spun together on a drunk night at his writing table.

  10. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    What's on tap for Orly Taitz?
    C'Mon......Guess.

  11. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    UH OH

    The plot thickens!
    From TPM:

    katz's Blog | Fox News: Will You Join the Tea Party Express » Is Mother Of The "Birther" Movement Orly Taitz An Agent Of A Foreign Government?
    July 29, 2009, 7:56PM


    "Like any loyal true, red white and blue, 2nd Amendment carrying, born and raised, and I got the papers to prove it, American c-i-t-i-z-e-n I am truly, madly, deeply concerned that the President of the United States, Barack Husein Obama may not be a bona fide John/Jane Q. Public, naturalized person of this great land. I'm serious here.

    So as any good blogger should do I Googled, the birth mother of the birther movement, Dr. Orly Taitz and frankly I'm very concerned what I learned.  Dr. Orly Taitz is not a naturalized American citizen!  In fact I saw no documentation that she is a U.S. citizen at all!!!

    Here's what's scaring the crap out of me:  According to the Orange County Weekly Dr. Taitz, immigrated to the United States from Israel in 1987.  It's a well known fact that Israel is no fan of President Obama.  Could they have sent Doc. Taitz to undermine his Presidency?  I need to see proof, and now that Ms.Taitz is not and has never been a Mossad agent. 

    But wait, there's more:  Before Israel, Dr. Taitz lived in what was then the Soviet Socialist Republic of Moldavia.  You heard me right, Dr. Orly Taitz could very well be a pinko commie.  Now I know she claims that she's concerned because she "came from a communist country."

    I mean what do you expect her to say, I'm a communist agent sent to subvert your democracy, hell no, she's going to wrap herself in the American flag so we can't see her true colors.  You know what they say "однажды КГБ всегда КГБ," "Once KGB always KGB."  How do we know she's not one of Stalin's children?  I saw, The Boys From Brazil.  They didn't call him Papa Joe for nothing.  I want to see proof and now, are you or were you ever a member of the Communist Party? 

    Now I'm not saying that Dr. Orly Taitz is a communist-Nazi-Mossad agent but I sure as hell need some proof, and quick that she's not."

    Yeah.......me too. Now, if only we had a big-mouth Lefty to carry the torch.....

  12. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    And thickens:

    "Why is Orly Taitz in Israel Two Days After Submitting a Forged Obama Birth Certificate to a US Federal Court?
    August 3, 2009, 11:42PM

    "Is it because she is fleeing prosecution for knowingly submitting a forged document to a federal court? Is it because she is secretly an Israeli agent working to undermine Barack Obama? Is it because she fears that black men in suits and sunglasses are coming from Washington to kill her?

    I don't know the answer, but "birther queen" Orly Taitz was indeed interviewed by MSNBC from Tel Aviv on Aug. 3 - only two days after submitting, to a federal district court in California for "authentication," a document alleged to be Obama's Kenyan birth certificate now pretty conclusively proven to be a forgery.

    Orly Taitz claims that she is merely a "lawyer," with a purely "legal" interest in the details of Obama's birth, but I obviously suspect there's more to her Obama birth obsession than this or mere insanity. Taitz hails from a milieu of Soviet-born Israelis among whom far-right, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment runs much stronger by most accounts than among the general Israeli population, as numerous Israeli and international sources have observed. Witness the rise of Avigdor Lieberman, Soviet-born leader of the far-right Yisrael Beiteinu party, made up mostly of other Soviet-born Israelis with strongly anti-Arab views, many of whom live not in Israel itself but in West Bank settlements; and many of whom really, really don't like Barack Hussein Obama.

    Taitz has a documented association with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a powerful pro-Israel lobby group with close ties to Binyamin Netanyahu's right-wing Likud party, as Allison Hoffman notes in Tablet. I'd be very interested in hearing what sympathies Taitz may have not just for Likud but for Yisrael Beiteinu, and what connections she may have with Soviet-born settlers in the West Bank. As observed above, she is on record saying that Israel's Arab enemies should be "exterminated" rather than merely defeated, and appears to have refused a ride to MSNBC's affiliate in Tel Aviv because she believed the driver to be a Muslim. Like right-wing settlers (see video), Taitz is also fond of calling her critics "nazis" or "brownshirts," as she did with David Schuster in her interview from Tel Aviv. Taitz spoke about her birther activities in a March 1 interview with Israeli National Radio."

    I'll repeat some of that; "she is on record saying that Israel's Arab enemies should be "exterminated" rather than merely defeated"


    Mmmm Hmmmmmmmmm

  13. Onusonus profile image86
    Onusonusposted 6 years ago

    “We’ve got some enormous challenges out there,” Obama said. He said he was “confident” about the ability to meet those challenges but added, “we’re not going to be able to do it if we are distracted.”


    If Obama was concerned about the more important issues, he would have addressed the nation about the growing conflict in Lybia instead of wasting time picking winning basketball teams for the office pool.

    It took Trump a couple of days to produce his birth certificate, I find it amazing that it took Obama several years to produce his. none the less the issue should be put to rest.

    1. DTR0005 profile image83
      DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well you know... HE DID produce it. It wasn't the one YOU wanted to see, but it passed legal muster within both Parties. But no... that wasn't good enough. Now the "official" is being called a fake by the bottom-feeders of the die-hard Birther Movement. So really, it hasn't mattered which "one" was produced - the whack-job Right fringe are still calling them fakes.

      Does any of this strike you as borderline insane? I mean step outside yourself, your political beliefs for two seconds and ask yourself, "is this sane?"

      1. Onusonus profile image86
        Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Not in the least, I find it insulting that he would take so long to produce it since his status as a natural born citizen has been in question since the begining of his candidacy.

        1. DTR0005 profile image83
          DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I find it insulting that he produced a valid document and was still questioned. And rest assured, it was a valid document - maybe not to you and some others, but it was ALWAYS a valid document as evidenced by the fact that his current address is 1800 Pennyslvania Ave. This was "cleared up" in 2008 - officially. It became an "issue" with the Birther/Tea Party crowd jumped on a broken bandwagon.
          I have much the same birth certificate as the President originally presented. If you had challenged my having been born in the US I would have told you to go to Hell quite honestly - again, you had "legal" proof accepted by the Elections Board, the GOP, and the DNC. But it wasn't good enough for the Birthers. And this long form won't be good enough either - check out the current buzz on the Internet. The "squirrels" are back at the conspiracy theories.

        2. DTR0005 profile image83
          DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And tell me that his name and race - particularly his name didn't have anything to do with the "questions" about his place of birth. If his name had been "John Holden" would anything have questioned it? Very doubtful. A name doesn't mean anything.

          1. Onusonus profile image86
            Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Typical liberals making race the issue.

            1. DTR0005 profile image83
              DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Typical conservative/Tea Partier trying to claim that a guy with a Moslem-sounding name with an African father didn't raise any alarm flags among the White, Conservative electorate - get real. It's not the race card - I can admit that Obama doesn't "look like me" and at times I have a hard time identifying with him because of his race-  why can't your camp do the same? It's only human. The key is being able to suppress natural tendencies to discredit or distrust someone because they don't look or talk exactly like you....

              1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Really, you have trouble identifying with another human being because of his skin?  I have had absolutely no trouble what so ever - ever identifying with anyone because of their skin.  Their conduct, their politics but not because of their skin.  I am so conservative that Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity do not pass my litmus tests and I have absolutely ZERO problem identifying with another human being because of his skin. 

                That is messed up.
                Oh, yeah, what is race?

                1. DTR0005 profile image83
                  DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah, I do. And I am like every other human being on the planet whether they are a member of a "minority" population or a "majority" population.

                  For anyone to say they are not to some extent "racist," in my opinion, is a total fantasy - blacks, Asians, etc. included. We all practice it; more subtle to be sure in some, but we are all "guilty" of it. Culture and society are built up around tribalism. We gravitate in nearly every area of life to people, ideas, and situations with whom we feel "comfotable" and that match our world view.  We seek out like, kind, and quality in our lives.

                  I have no problem with slamming a President's policies - I was guilty of the same during Bush Light's tenure in office. In his case, my prejudice was rooted around my perception of him as being an "ignorant" rich kid who got in over his head at nearly every turn.   But to deny that race hasn't or doesn't play at least "some" factor in going on three years worth of "insanity" mainly kicked up by the Far Right is analgous to burying your head in the sand.  A white guy named John Poindexter born in Hawaii in 1961 with the same birth certificate would not have kicked up so much hell. No one would have thought twice about it.

                  1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Unless he was a white man named John Sydney McCain III who was born in the Panama Canal Zone - then all bets are off.


                    http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/4553
                    http://americanchaos.wordpress.com/2008 … president/
                    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/ns/nightly_news
                    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/05/ … n-citizen/
                    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/2 … -in-Panama

                    As to your racism and prejudices, perhaps you should seek out some therapy.

              2. Onusonus profile image86
                Onusonusposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                What makes you think i'm a member of the Tea party? You left wing commie goon.

                1. DTR0005 profile image83
                  DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I have no idea lollll

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I wonder what makes him think you're a left wing commie goon?  lol

        3. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Not to the rational.

  14. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    A more rational approach;

    Published 00:00 18.08.09
    Latest update 09:46 22.08.09
    Orly Taitz: Obama policies are 'clear and present danger to Israel'
    The driving force behind the 'birther' movement has found her star is rising in Israel.
    By Benjamin L. Hartman
    Tags: Barack Obama Israel news

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/orly-taitz- … l-1.282161

    1. DTR0005 profile image83
      DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Impressive LMC - I am going to check into this. Nice work by the way.

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        All it took was a hit on google.....funny that no one bothered.

  15. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Surely, Ann and Oly---you knew this????

  16. TLMinut profile image60
    TLMinutposted 6 years ago

    "Silliness of the debate"? I'm annoyed that it took so long to release it too. If the real long-form had been released long ago, it would have been silly. This is the president, if there are concerns of the people that he doesn't belong there, he should have cleared them up right away. Insulting people by saying that being sure is silly is a really bad idea!

    What I wondered though, is how safe and reasonable it would be to release his birth certificate where anyone can access it. Of course, I guess he doesn't have to worry about having his identity stolen, it would be pretty obvious. It would make a good "Dumb Criminals" story if someone tried!

    1. OLYHOOCH profile image61
      OLYHOOCHposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You can fool all the people some of the time, and, some of the people all of the time, but, you can not fool all the people, all the time. No way could he have been born BHO the II.

      He was born BARRY SOETOSE.

      OLY

      1. thebrucebeat profile image59
        thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Poor OLY.  Just when he had turned the corner and declared his awareness of Obama as his president, he gets caught in another cesspool.
        You poor man.  You fall for everything.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image91
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Silly?  How many morons and idiots did he allow to embarass themselves by waiting a while?  Only they doubted his BC, why worry about what imbeciles think?  lol

  17. sunforged profile image69
    sunforgedposted 6 years ago
    1. thebrucebeat profile image59
      thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      LOL.
      You know there are people on here that are going to take this seriously and spread this as truth.

  18. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    There are operatives in our country trying to bring our president down for certain factions in Israel....

    And no one is bothered by this!!.....The brainwashing runs deep.

    Think!
    Pay attention. Question these accusers! WHO are they?

    1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
      BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Operatives...brainwashing.....factions......wow.......

  19. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Orly Taitz born 08/30/1960
    1. Orly lied that Orly escaped from the Soviet Union 20 yrs ago. That would be 1989. But in 1987 Orly was married in Las Vegas USA as an established resident of California.
    Nevada Marriage Index, 1956-2005
    Name: Orly Averbuch Gender: Female
    Spouse: Yosef Taitz
    Spouse residence state: California Marriage Date: 2 May 1987
    Marriage County: Clark Recorded county: Clark
    Book: 783 Page: B685519 Instrument number: 470169
    Here is her husband’s picture daylight.daylight.com/meetings/mugshots/muggers/taitz_yosef.html (?)

    2. There is no record of her immigration, arrival in USA or naturalization, although records for those events are publicly available for the years from her birth through present day. Demand Orly prove Orly’s a citizen before you follow her off the cliff. (?)

    3. Orly’s had 3 anchor babies. Isaac Yitzhak Taitz, 14 Jul 1989, Benjamin Samuel Taitz,7 Oct 1991, Ronald Michaeladam Taitz, 3 Sep 1993. When Orly registered Ronald’s birth Orly fraudulently gave her maiden name as Auerbuch instead of Averbuch. Maybe both are fake names, because there is no record of her in the official list of Soviet Citizens from 1960-1987.

    4. Orly claims Orly got her dental degree from Hebrew University in Israel. Was that before or after her “escape” from the Soviet Union? Hebrew U does not have a record of her on their Alumni list. Fake dental degree explains the dozens of dental malpractice suits. Her dental license was obtained in 1989 when Orly was in US having babies. Which adds to the suspicion the Israeli dental degree is fake.(?)

    5. It is a well-established rumour that Orly paid someone to take the California Bar exam for her. Her lack of knowledge of the law and of legal procedures supports this. Her terrible grammar and spelling shows her lack of formal education and supports the theory her dental degree is fake, and of course her unaccredited online law school required no prerequisites or LSAT. Before you cry “but Orly’s speaking in a foreign language” remember Orly’s been in the USA since before 1987, and to receive any college degree Orly would need a basic proficiency in writing, grammar and spelling. (?)

    4. There is no record of her in the list of California Registered voters. A person not registered to vote is trying to usurp the choice of the voters.

    5. The same year as her marriage, husband Yosef opened Daylight Chemical Information Company, even though he has no degree listed in his bio. http://www.daylight.com/about/index.html >Daylight>About He also owns Metaphorics, LLC. (Pertinence ?)
    Ask yourself why her computer expert husband does not set up her blog on his own server and run it for her. Instead Orly takes from others what Orly can afford herself.

    Reply to this
    4/15/2009 7:01 PM Criminal Law wrote:
    FALSUS IN UNO FALSUS IN OMNIBUS

    6. Look at her 3 million dollar home. Her address is listed at whitepages.com. Look it up on Zillow.com or google earth or maps.live.com for a street view of the mansion. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds … -map/25... ]Bird’s Eye View of 31912 Monarch Crst, Laguna Niguel, CA 92677 - Zillow
    Why does Orly need your donations when all Orly’s had to pay for is a couple small filing fees? Orly made a cash payment of $14,000 2 months early for the second half of her $29,000.00 property taxes. Your money paid her tax bill. Before Orly founded her cash cow website Orly was a tax evader. The tax lien is listed at the Orange county Recorder website, along with all sorts of judgments and liens against both her and her husband.(?)

    7. Orly claims Orly’s also a realtor but that is another lie. Her license was revoked years ago. (???)

    8. Orly calls herself a Constitutional law expert, but besides the obvious fact that Orly doesn’t understand it at all, Orly’s never had a case before, other than defending herself against malpractice, and Orly lost every single case. Orly is not even legally competent, let alone an expert. Orly’s just a liar. On Alan Keyes website he stated Orly approached him to be her plaintiff, not eh other way around. And now Keyes and Kreep have disassociated themselves from her. That’s why Orly started soliciting the rest of you. Solicitation is against the Rules of Professional Conduct, by the way.

    Another thing about Orly that doesn’t add up is that in the WND article she said that she left Russia in 1981, went to Israel got a undergrad degree (4 years for that) and a Dentistry Degree (4 more years for that). A total of 8 years in school in Israel at Hebrew University would have had her in Israel until 1989. But we see that by May 2, 1987, Orly was already married and living in California. Did Orly TIME TRAVEL back to the future (1989) in Israel to get her Dentistry Degree then back to the past (1987) married and living in California while she was pregnant with her first son, Issac?

    And how did Orly who is functionally illiterate pass the essay section of the California Bar Exam?

    17 posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:27:25 AM by mrmeangenes

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2234147/posts

  20. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    "Anyway, tell me what you think or if you find anything more. As far as I can tell, Orly Taitz didn't officially exist until she landed in Las Vegas to marry Yosef Taitz, a man she claims in one of her interviews "...to have hardly known." at the time.

    Orly Taitz mysterious past - Looks like it was taken from a novel called, "The Lazarus Project"

  21. dingdondingdon profile image58
    dingdondingdonposted 6 years ago

    Glad this debate can end and even more glad to see posters who said they'd accept him as President after he released his long-form BC have been true to their word. smile

    1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
      BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Um, love....most of us have accepted him as President since January of 2009.  We just don't understand why he allowed this issue to become as needless of a diversion as it became.

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        HE allowed?

        Right there is indication of the psy-op nature of your side.

        You blame Obama for YOUR not believing the certificate of birth!

        ALL of Hawaii uses the same thing....but Oh no, not good enough for YOU.

        THEN, you say well Geeeee, golly gosh....WE dint do nuthin.

        Phony Cult.

        1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
          BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Um, LMC?  I've been saying all along that I believed the President.

          But when it became an issue, instead of dealing with it directly and diffusing it, he allowed it to become a diversion.  He could have ended it long ago.  we're just wondering why he didn't.

          If you insist on attaching more nefarious motives to it than that, then methinks you need to get out more often....

          1. lovemychris profile image80
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe you need to ask yourself why the legally sanctioned certificate wasn't enough for you?

            You made it an issue, not President Obama.

            It's like me ole mum used to say: Why feed the kookoo birds?

            1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
              BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Because he didn't release the actual document.  His actions made it appear as though he were hiding something.

              1. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                What?
                So, every single Hawaiin can be accused of hiding something?

                They ALL use that certificate! He had to request special treatment to get the long form.

                But oh--it was Obama who had the problem?

                Uh huh...I see the logic. Anything Obama does is questionable...that about right?

                1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
                  BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Um, love?  He's the PRESIDENT.  We're talking about the leader of the free world who began to appear to more and more people as though he were hiding something.

                  You know as well as I do that if this were a Republican president and he displayed similar behavior, you'd be at the head of the pack calling for him to present his birth certificate (not to mention your cut of his salary that you believe you are entitled to)

  22. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Au Contraire!

    It has just started for me.

    Thanks to these operatives---now I am curious who these people REALLY are.

    And what it is they are trying to do by taking Obama down.

    I see a lot of 2+2=4......Baggers/Cult/Psy-op.

    Just beginning.

  23. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    "Novartis' patent specifically details that the viral pathogen which the patented vaccine is designed to protect against is a "reverse engineered" designer virus that could only have been created in the labs of Ft. Detrick utilizing ORACLE 8i equipped computers. This is EXACTLY what Michael Riconosciuto testified about years earlier concerning the Biological Warfare capabilities of ORACLE 8i software.
    PROMIS program-modifier Michael Riconosciuto documenting the history of Ft. Detrick's biological warfare development and the stated desire of our nation's top "National Institutes of Health" and CDC scientists to use new computer technologies to create sophisticated "Designer Viruses" for covert CIA use. He also documents the INFILTRATION of ISRAELI AGENTS into the labs of Ft. Detrick.   
    : "Yosef Taitz, the self-described "CEO" of Daylight Chemical Information Systems, Inc., a private software company located in Mission Viejo, CA, Santa Fe, NM, and Cambridge, England. DCIS, Inc. is intimately involved with Novartis Pharmaceuticals (United States, Switzerland, Germany, France, England), the patent holder of the bird/swine flu vaccination. The "DayCart" software produced by DCIS, Inc. integrates ongoing research and development by Novartis and others using proprietary Oracle 8i technologies."   

    http://www.rense.com/general87/ilmn.htm

  24. manlypoetryman profile image68
    manlypoetrymanposted 6 years ago

    I am so glad he got back to business talking to Oprah and Jay Leno yesterday...whew...for a minute there...I thought we were going to work on things like the deflating dollar and rising gas prices.

    Glad we are getting on with the real important stuff...like interviews!

  25. proudlib profile image61
    proudlibposted 6 years ago

    If I were Obama, I would not have dignified these clowns with even the first Certificate of Live Birth.  Why would I do anything that my sworn enemies demanded of me?   If I was asked by an official and legal source for proof of something, I would supply it.  Since BHO had a passport and other documents, he must have submitted a legal BC to get those documents.  Why go to the trouble and perhaps expense to give a bunch of angry, bitter, delusional, and vicious clowns anything.  Let them stew in their own juices land ignore them.  Let Fox News carry their water and the legitimate press do its job of informing and afflicting the comfortable.

    1. manlypoetryman profile image68
      manlypoetrymanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You said it all when you said "sworn enemies". That makes your stance...and anyone who would agree with it...the reason why we all can't get along. Hello...we are human beings...each with varying degrees of mindsets. It is a miracle that we can all agree that 1 + 1 = 2. Yet, you bring "sworn enemies" into the discussion...for 2 different, well actually 3 different political parties...that each side is "sworn enemies"?

      How in the heck could anyone expect for "sworn enemies" to agree on anything...or everything...or even want to?

      Geez...we have to learn a different mindset. Disagreeing with someone...does not make them a "sworn enemy"...unless you get your "baby-boo-boo" feelings hurt!

      1. thebrucebeat profile image59
        thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The sworn enemies of Obama are not a party.  They are the people who have decided to take extreme measures to undermine him.  To make up truly crazy conspiracy stories, to forge bogus foreign birth certificates, REPEATEDLY, to accuse him of all kinds of unfounded crap, endlessly, day after day after day.  What else would you call such people if they had put you in their crosshairs?  Sworn enemies seems appropriate.
        People who created all the racist signage we saw portrayed during the campaign and at certain rallies.  People who would not step up, as McCain to his credit did, to put down the sad and unscrupulous stories circulated by people that could not win in a fair fight, so they abandoned it for nefarious tactics.
        This is not about a party.  It's about unethical power players with bottomless pockets attempting to rig the deck while hiding behind fake "action committees" and creating a faux grassroots goon squad of character assassins.
        Those are sworn enemies.

  26. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    I agree with proudlib.
    When a group of people tells you that their only goal is to get rid of you...that is your enemy.

    Oh, and Billy--this is the PRESIDENT, as you said. The leader of the free world...and these goons can't give him any respect?

    Stand up and call him a liar during a speech?
    Refuse to meet with him when he asks for a meeting?

    THAT is why we don't get along.

    and of course, this:  (not to mention your cut of his salary that you believe you are entitled to)

    This is your idea of getting along....smearing and degrading people.

    No thanks.
    Bush did plenty that warranted question. But no one questioned his "Americaness" or his right to be president.

    What he did in office was criminal... and that, you so easily dis-regard. So-excuse me if your feelings on Obama don't matter a hill-o-beans to me.

    1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
      BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Obama called a liar during SOTU....Bush booed by Dems during SOTU

      Cut of his salary....hey you're the one that keeps the wealth envy train on track....

      Bush was hounded for most of his administration with charges of "stealing the 2000 election" and even stealing the 2008 election.....so yes, Bush knows exactly how Obama feels.

      Somehow I'm sure your memory will be reliably poor on all of this....

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Dems and Repubs always boo during that speech..it's part of the culture!
        But standing up and calling out liar is not.

        You make the wealthy out to be the poor victims of this society...I want them to play fair.

        As far as Bush stealing the election, yes. That was proven to be true.
        BOTH times.

        But, it never did anything to curtail his status as Commander in Chief. None of his fellow pols ever called him anti-American, accused him of hating America, or of not being born here.

        Obama is being stone-walled, by members of OUR Congress, who refuse to act without having everything go their way.

        Holding Americans hostage is not Patriotic. Blaming the president for it it gas-lighting.

        1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
          BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Um, Bush beat Kerry by several million votes.....and every recount in FL showed Bush beating Gore, so remind me again how he stole both elections?  I smell another poor dead horse being dragged out for  a good beating...

          1. lovemychris profile image80
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            google it yourself. But you won't believe it, no matter what you read!

            1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
              BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              We know,, LMC, it was all rigged.  And you look smashing in the tin foil hat.....

              1. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                And pride always goes before a fall Ritchie.

              2. Maembe profile image61
                Maembeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                A birther's going to talk about tin foil hats?  Really?

                1. BillyDRitchie profile image60
                  BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  If you bother to actually read any of my posts, you will see that I have said from the beginning that I believe Obama was born in Hawaii.  So much for your birther accusation.

                  I'm simply one of those who wonders why he handled the issue in such a bizarre manner.....

      2. DTR0005 profile image83
        DTR0005posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        But Billy, I think W was too dumb to care....

        1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
          uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Really, too dumb.  You do tend to make snap judgements.  Let's see, what schools did he attend?  How were his grades?  We do know HIS grades.  What degrees did he earn?  Perhaps he wasn't as good at the whole teleprompter speak but, hey, no body is perfect.

  27. BillyDRitchie profile image60
    BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago

    And how much more should the rich play fair when they already pay a disproportionate amount of the tax burden?

    1. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      They HAVE a disportionate amount of the wealth!!!!!

      What is it, like 5% have 60% of the wealth?? It's crazy imbalanced.

      AND--with all the loop-holes and such, Warren Buffet has said he pays less A PERCENTAGE of his income than his secretary!

      Why is FICA capped at $103,000???
      Can you name a good reason for it, other than favors done for favored peoples?

      Why did Leona Helmsley say Only the little people pay taxes? Do you think she knew something we don't?

      Because of the laws, GE can legally pay no taxes, and get a rebate on top of it..even though their profits were in the billions!

      Labor is taxed higher than wealth...why?

      Top has grown while middle has fallen...you think that's by accident?

      It's a rigged game highly geared towards the top classes, IMO....time to bring it back to balance.

      1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
        uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        FICA is capped at $103,000 because the pretense that Social Security is a retirement insurance program has persisted since the 1930s despite the reality that it is nothing more than a taxed transfer of property from one citizen to another. 

        In your universe that isn't a sufficient offense because it isn't progressive enough.  Maybe eating the rich while wearing their clothes would be more to your liking.

        Who are the rich?

        1. thebrucebeat profile image59
          thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You need to read my hub about class warfare and realize it is a proud American tradition from our very roots, and both sides play for keeps.  The rich have been winning for the majority of our history, but for a brief time the tides turned.  Take a look.  Taxes have never been lower on the wealthy in the last 80 years, save for a brief time during Bush I.  The idea that they are being abused while their profits have turned turbo charged is just ignorance, and makes you most likely one of Jay Gould's little helpers.

          1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
            uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Taxes have never been lower on the rich?  You do understand that prior to the 1986 tax reforms there were far more credits, deductions and other means of shelter income available under the law.  To use the tax rates alone as a measure is a distortion all too typical of those who see humanity as static.

            There is no class, but you go ahead and think we are all born serfs or Democrat Senators, oops, I mean nobles.

            Oh, yeah, read my hub - then I will insult you by implying you are a "social darwinist."  Wow, thanks for the incentive to read  drivel.

            1. thebrucebeat profile image59
              thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Always prejudge what  you haven't read.  That makes you look quite inquisitive.  You'll find both sides get a bit of a spanking.  Well, you won't, but those who want to learn something will.

              The vast majority of our population could do their taxes with the first 25 pages of the tax code, including the tax tables.  The rest of the thousands of pages are so the wealthy and corporations can avoid paying their share.  Under Bush II, dividends were made exempt and corporate dividends went through the roof, leaving less money for corporations to reinvest in infrastructure and human resources.  In other words, the worker got screwed again.

              1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Nope, I have interest in your hub precisely because I have been reading and writing US History, Sociology and Economics for thirty years.  Considering you like the implied "social darwinist" clap trap I am presuming your hubs are probably filled with the same tired, hackneyed old garbage that liberals like to think is fresh and new.

                1. thebrucebeat profile image59
                  thebrucebeatposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Has your intense scholarship led you to use assumption as an investigative tool?  This must lead to breathtaking breakthroughs for you.  You must be an admired leader in your field.

                  1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Really, that was it.  Why would I waste my time with more of the same trash I have seen a thousand times before?  It gets rather boring reading the fantasies of liberals.

          2. uncorrectedvision profile image61
            uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I figured you had said everything you really meant right here not much need to expand on that perfect summary of your internal attitude.  If you listen closely a man will tell you his bad intentions.

 
working