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Wisconsin Union Busting Law Upheld By Supreme Court Of WI.

  1. TMMason profile image63
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    I believe it is time to toss the Unions from our govt. and maybe even the private sector. they have served their purpose and have become a hinderance and a drain on our economy. They have spat in the face of all those Americans who are right to work workers, and are nothing more, and have been nothing more, than communist front front groups full of Anti-American hatred. All I can say is hopefully this is the first strike in the end of the Unions. And good riddance!

    MADISON, Wis. -- The Wisconsin Supreme Court handed Republican Gov. Scott Walker a major victory on Tuesday, ruling that a polarizing union law could take effect that strips most public employees of their collective bargaining rights.

    In a 4-3 decision, the court ruled that Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi overstepped her authority when she said Republican lawmakers violated the state's open meetings statutes in the run-up to passage of the legislation and declared the law void.

    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/news … 0449.story

    1. S Leretseh profile image62
      S Leretsehposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you on the gov't - 100%.  However, collective bargaining rights in the private sector is - IMO - a  very necessary part of the checks & balance systems in the the private sector.. This freedom should  be maintained unconditionally.   America erred in allowing a "unchecked" free trade system.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well that is a matter of opinion.

        But if you were to look at the Boing situation, that is an example of the of the problem. They think that all workers should be Union, and are pissed about Cos wanting to go to right to work states. And that is unacceptable. I should not HAVE to join a union to work in any state. I have a RIGHT to work.

        I m not yelling... I am emphasizing. Just for clearification.

        1. S Leretseh profile image62
          S Leretsehposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well, the South wanted slavery; the North opposed it.  The majority's will won there.

          The Tories wanted British rule, the colonist (revolutionaries) wanted self-determination. The will of the determined won there.

          My point is that the prevailing side get's to call the shots. Not always fair. Not always right. But it is what it is.  Man will never create a  world  - or working environment - that satisfies everyone.     

          Unions are an ancillary issue. Much more important issue right now is beating Barry O.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And that is why America is NOT a Democracy.

            We are a Constitutional Republic for just that reason, to protect the loosing side, the minority. If we were a Democracy, Civil rights would not have been passed in the 1960s.

            Democracy is by definition, mob rule.

          2. profile image0
            Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            ...so sayeth the Klansman.

            1. profile image0
              Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              SL - not Mason.

              1. TMMason profile image63
                TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Talk about hate.

                1. profile image0
                  Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You should read more from that guy, and then come back to me.

                  1. profile image0
                    Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, maybe not you, being that you think McCarthy was a great guy, but other people...normal people.

    2. OpinionDuck profile image60
      OpinionDuckposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately in CA, the governor is a Democrat and he can't get his democrats to break the union contracts.

  2. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 6 years ago

    we are destined to re-fight the labor wars of the 1900's again.
    we remember nothing about fair wages, equality and dignity from work. I am afraid with the way the History is edited and taught, we are headed down that path. We repeate our mistakes.

    Also sense Regan we have splintered our factory systems and do not produce goods to any significant amount. So, no long term jobs are possible any more.

    The administration says we made job gains, but they count retail sales. Problem is retailers are not buying from american factories, but are importing instead.

    Also green alone can not recover this nation. They can not sustain the money outflow to the Goverment to correct the problem by taxes.

    and The upper mid-class alone will not sustain the USA in business. Small Business is named that for a reason, it is SMALL, it can not hire enough folks to aid much less sustain a recovery.

    While our "for sale" Legislative branch has no back-bone to reverse the trends. Houston...we have a real serious problem!     smile

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Labor laws are on the books in both federal and state, so no we would not be fighting them again. What we will be re-fighting, is the infiltratrion of subversives in our country, courts, Govts., and national cutural institutions.

      And the green agenda is useless for anything other than a power grab.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image60
        dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        we are most def. fighting them again, as Judges do not judge anymore the legislate!

        Business rides the border line of "Proven" illegal activity always, and always will. We are loosing in unfair and un-needed lay-offs, factories sent off shore under the guise of right to conduct own business.
        Descrimination against Older workers, forced harassment on the job. unequal status of all workers. partiality to one ethnic race, all of this exhists for real.

        Unions doing it also, demanding all be unionised, destroying free choice, we are indeed in a fight for Jobs, income survival and job dignity.

        reguardless of laws on books. Look at the miss-abuse of right to work. They can fire you for anything, shoes, speech, marrage and church belief, or personal beliefes. Nothing to do with work, ability, technical knowledge and performance.

        we are indeed in a fight for our right to toil and endevor..?

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with all you say, Dutch. But it is in no way like it was in the labor war days. We have a ways to go, but we have also come a long ways.

        2. profile image59
          C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Very well put. The lessons learned began to be sluffed off in the 60's. It's gotten progressively worse with each passing decade. History shows us this. We only need to read and understand. Unions, Retirement investments, health insurance and the difference in pay between the top and bottom are all symptoms of a problem. A problem that no amount of money will solve. At least not money alone.

  3. Evan G Rogers profile image78
    Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago

    I have a lot of problems with modern unions, but to make "collective bargaining" ILLEGAL is just too much.

    If me and my friend both try to get jobs at the same place and say "dude, if you get fired, I'll quit"... then I just broke the law.

    This is clearly nonsense and an invasion of freedom.

    1. profile image0
      Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Totally agree!

    2. Jeff Berndt profile image87
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Indeed.
      If you outlaw collective bargaining, it's only fair to outlaw incorporation (which is really just collective bargaining with capital rather than labor).
      But both of those ideas are bad, and neither should be enacted.

      1. profile image59
        C.J. Wrightposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        TA DA!!! That's the BEST argument for collective bargining. Public sector Unions are a completely different animal though.

  4. TMMason profile image63
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    What I pay someone, or fire someone for, is based o the individual, not the collective, it is based on individual performance and experience.

    If you all want to walk cause I fire someone then go ahead... I will hire someone else. You do not have the Right to strangle a Co. because you all can xcease production etc. and strong-arm them.

    It isn't right... adn I know right to work has its problems also.

    1. profile image0
      Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hence the concept of collective bargaining to prevent those strong arm tactics, to ensure such companies provide basic benefits and working conditions...without collective bargaining, they can do anything they want. Oh yeah...that is exactly your point. We forgot...you don't believe in basic rights to begin with, like McCarthy.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        As I stated earlier, there are plenty of labor laws on the books and plenty of laws to protect the individual period, so Union have out lived their usefullness. And they need to be brought low and thrown out.

        1. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The funny thing is...you want those out too.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image78
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      you're right, you COULD hire someone else.

      I totally support that.

      I'm just saying that the act of making "dude, we'll work here together, and if one of us gets fired, the other will quit" illegal is nothing short of tyranny.

      The employer has the right to engage in whatever contract they wish, and SO DOES THE EMPLOYEE.

      If me collectively working with a friend is not who you wish to hire, then don't hire me.  The End.  Don't make it illegal for me to talk with my friend, though.

      1. profile image0
        Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I am falling more and more to your side there Evan.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
          Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ~~~ vote for ron pa~~~aul~~~

          ~~ VO~~~ote for Ro~~~on Pa~~~ul~~~~

          (say in a ghostly voice)

      2. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        But as it stands now... I cannot fire you, or that is illegal. And that is not right either Evan. So it isn't perfect, but a union should not get to run anyones company.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
          Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I agree -- making it illegal to fire someone is tyrannical.

          That needs to end as well.

          If you want to kill a mosquito, you don't use a flame thrower.

      3. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "I'm just saying that the act of making "dude, we'll work here together, and if one of us gets fired, the other will quit" illegal is nothing short of tyranny."

        No one is making that illegal.  But, of course, that's not what you are actually saying.  Rather it's that "the other" will stop work while still on the payroll (unpaid).  S/he will come back to work anytime s/he wishes and expects the same job back - anyone hired to do the work in the meantime must be fired.  In addition s/he will do everything in their power to stop others from working for the employer, thus attempting to completely stop business.  S/he will try to stop other independent contractors from conducting business with the employer (deliveries and/or shipments, work by others on the site, etc.).

        That's a far cry from quitting.

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
          Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Collective bargaining - the act of bargaining in a collective.

          Thus, if you enter into a collective agreement with another employee before or after being hired, you are breaking the law.

          I don't know the details, but this isn't a far step from where things will lead.

  5. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Laws on the books are irrelevant if those in power choose to disregard or not pay attention to them....

    This is why so many employers intentionally hire the undocumented.....

    Anyone who points to government ills while ignoring the corporate "free market" exploitation that led to the labor laws and groups like the NLRB is either ignorant or a hypocrite...

    I don't know about Boing, TM, but concerning Boeing, it all comes down to whether or not a primary motivation of the company was to relocate as retribution towards workers utilizing their rights to protest.

    Looking at your own words Mason, there is a law on the books, and it states that, depending on the industry, that workers have the right to come together and try to form a union...they have a right to have a secret vote in order to decide for or against union membership...

    This is a law on the books, but it seems you and your ilk are trying to get rid of it...

    With this said, as the Dutchman stated, this results in refighting the labor battles of a century ago...

    It is too bad that so many Americans have little to no clue concerning what the job market and economy of the early 20th century looked like...

    Otherwise I don't think they'd be wanting to return there...

    If we were truly interested in solving the labor struggles we are having in this nation we would be looking to resolve the "race to the bottom" that is plaguing the individual states of our nation as well as the global environment...

    As long as a company can run off to a worse location (like Levi's moving to Haiti) Americans will suffer, both as consumers and as workers/citizens..

    http://james4america.wordpress.com/2011 … to-0-31hr/

    Instead of invading nations illegally (and driving up the deficit that is then used against union workers as if it was their fault), we should be pushing for labor reforms in places like Mexico, Haiti, China (where Americans also put pressure on the government to keep workers from being able to organize http://www.alternet.org/story/43051/ ) and elsewhere... 

    If the "race to the bottom" cannot be dealt with, everything else is pretty much a useless endeavor...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And your going to prove what was in their mind... one of the hardest things under the law to do is prove "state of mind".

      And the fact is if your Union continues to strike and strong-arm the Co. you work for, then do not be surprised when they move to a right to work state.

      And I do not support any of the fre trade agreements and I in no way support the out-sourcing that has taken place in the last decades.

      And their pays are 100% more than the private sector and the benis are rediculous.... maybe if Unionists were not so greedy they would not be a big part of the deficit. And they are when iot comes to federal and state budgets.

  6. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    The dissenting Justice Shirley Abramson(?), said this decision did not follow the rules, and was made on a PURELY PARTISAN POLITICAL basis.....

    Judicial Activism anyone?? Much like Scalia and Thomas! Impartial my a$$.

    Must be a bought and sold Koch-S*cker...that would be my geuss.
    Not like it hasn't happened before cough *Florida* cough

    ...going to look it up.

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A Leftists complaining about legistlating from the Bench... lol that's the way it is... that is the system the Left created. Now your going to complain... and I don't buy the dissenters story anyways. Leftists always cry when they don't get their way in court.

      1. Jeff Berndt profile image87
        Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Judicial activism" is nothing more than a code phrase for "A ruling I don't like."

        1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
          Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          nah - a lot of judges overstep their bounds.

      2. lovemychris profile image78
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Really?
        When the husband wanted to let his wife pass on....who tried to stop him?
        Leftists? No....Righty's.

        Always the personal stuff, the righty's have to butt in. They can't help it....it's in the dna. The Buttinsky Gene.

  7. lovemychris profile image78
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    "The Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld the law in a 4-3 ruling, with the court’s conservative justices in the majority. The narrow ruling was not surprising out of a court that long has been beset by a sharp divide between its conservative and liberal blocs.

    Tuesday’s opinion said Wisconsin circuit-court judge Maryann Sumi exceeded her authority when she issued a permanent injunction in May barring the law from taking effect. The justices wrote, “One of the courts that we are charged with supervising has usurped the legislative power which the Wisconsin Constitution grants exclusively to the legislature.”

    The opinion included a fierce dissent, AP reports.  Supreme Court Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson, who is considered the leader of the court’s liberal wing, wrote that the majority “set forth their own version of facts without evidence. They should not engage in this disinformation.”

    Abrahamson also said that a concurring opinion by newly reelected Justice David Prosser was “long on rhetoric and long on story-telling that appears to have a partisan slant.”---WSJ


    Oooooh! Fight! Fight!
    Disinformation eh? Why am I not surprised? wink

    Is there any other kind of information coming from the right lately? Psy-op. Continuing.......

    "Workers do NOT have the right to get paid, by golly!! It's MY MONEY... MINE MINE MINE!!"

    I"LL build the roads, I"LL print the money, I"LL do the buying AND the selling! I can do it alllll......ME ME ME!!!

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hahahaaaaa the Supreme Court ruling is dis-information. What a limited range of arguments you possess. Do you hear yourself?

  8. ChristianRecca profile image60
    ChristianReccaposted 6 years ago

    TMMason, you say that unions have served their purpose. But who is to say that conditions will not deteriorate if they are done away with? Without unions, child labor might be exploited, people might be forced to work long hours for less than they make now, etc. Not all unions are created equal. I think we should reform them (for instance, overhaul the tenure system in public schools) but not prohibit collective bargaining in general. I speak not as a confrontational partisan, but someone who wonders whether both sides can't come together to solve the problem. I think this Wisconsin thing is extreme, and I wish you would reconsider your position on it.

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If the people in a state fell they are beig screwed they can pass new laws to relieve that problem. And the courts are also your remedy, Chrisian. Not the Union.

      1. John Holden profile image60
        John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        And how likely is that to be successful when the courts and the lawmakers are also the screwers?

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          The Left loves and trusts the Court when it Legistlates from the Bench in their favor... so you tell me John. When they over-turn referendum votes, and the will of the Majority (yet they claim we are a Democracy haha) and impose Leftist ideology it is all good... but it cannot be trusted now? huh

          The fact is Unions are not the saviour of the worker, they are the destroyer of the Cos. and our economy, along with the Welfare State, and out of control spending programs and subsidies.

          1. profile image0
            Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            The stats don't lie. When the war on the unions began, the shrinking of the middle class began...and as unions have gone down in membership, so has the middle class in income.
            You mention subsidies. I am curious of your opinion on the subsidies we give corporations for flying corporate jets, shipping jobs overseas, how we allow them to ignore their tax burden, to hide money overseas, the subsidies we give oil companies for basically just existing, and the $168 billion in corporate welfare we give annually.

            1. TMMason profile image63
              TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              No subsidies for anyone... if you cannot survive the free market, oh well, your done. And that also goes for green energy, ethanol etc., and oil, gas, etc.

              1. profile image0
                Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                How do you build bridges? Make everything a toll road?

                1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
                  Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't get why you don't think that people can build bridges without government subsidies.

                  It's happened countless times in history.

                  A private company could build a road system, and - yes - tolls could by a system of payment. But tolls aren't always the "stop every 20 seconds and insert 40 cents" kind of tolls. There are countless ways to avoid this annoyance.

                  Cars could be modified to allow ease of identification (they do this in Japan for jumping on the highways. You just put a sticker on your car, drive under 50 MPH up to the gates and *beep* they take money out of an account you set up). The same private system that brought you paypal, amazon.com, ebay and countless other websites devoted to ease of payments could easily develop a simple way of paying for road usage.

                  Then, if you wanted a road that went over an obstacle - say a river - then the company would weigh the cost benefits of building the road and would choose to do so or not.

                  1. John Holden profile image60
                    John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Then why didn't they? If the home of free enterprise can not build an national, efficient highway system without government intervention what hope for the rest of us?
                    Here in the UK we'd still be using Roman roads!

                2. TMMason profile image63
                  TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  The State or County which needs or wants the bridge would pay for it's construction, just like any other customer. And without the Unions it would cost half the price it does now.

    2. The Suburban Poet profile image81
      The Suburban Poetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think things will ever roll back in the absence of unions because many of the abuses that occured long ago prompting the need for organized labor are now prohibited by law. Labor laws such as the payment of overtime and breaks, child labor laws, safety, environmental concerns, social work issues such as sexual harrassment etc are now covered and guaranteed by Federal and State governments.

  9. Doug Hughes profile image60
    Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago

    I'm a federal government employee, and a union member. I can choose not to be in the union, but I'm no fool.

    The union is the force that stands up for me against management. To be fair, not all management in the USPS are clowns, but there are enough. I wish I had a nickle for every time management was slapped down for trying to swindle the worker to try to make their individual performance look better. Or singled out an employee for harassment because he knew the contract he/she was working under and as willing to stand up for it.

    Management in government or the private sector will always be bigger than any individual. It's the union that equalizes a dispute and keeps the little guy from being squashed.

    I have seen postal employees fired - for cause. The union forces management to demonstrate just cause. The statement that you can't be fired if you are a government employee in a union is a lie.

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Well said, Doug. I don't agree with a damn thing you wrote... but your the first to actually come up with a valid sounding argument. Good job.

      1. profile image0
        Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Do you realize that above, in this same thread, you are attacking unions, and then just now, you supported them? Do you want to go back and read Doug's post?
        "Management in government or the private sector will always be bigger than any individual. It's the union that equalizes a dispute and keeps the little guy from being squashed."

        1. TMMason profile image63
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I have not. I read what he said.. now go read my reply. I stated it clearly enough. I do not agree with a word of it... but he stated his reasons in a more concise, clear, and valid way than any of you.

          Comprehension... you should try it some time.

          1. profile image0
            Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Ah...you are correct, and I am wrong. I misread it.

  10. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Evan...your analogy of "collective bargaining"...maybe I am missing something...

    An agreement made prior to even being employed with a another prospective employee can hardly be compared to actual collective bargaining...

    In the corporate world there is the chief executive, but there is still a board of directors...there are still many minds, or at least a few, that have to agree...  Just as with our nation...

    While they collectively operate amd make deals with one another at the upper echelons, those actually performing the labor...doing the real work that justifies the existence of the company itself has little to no say in the matter....

    Without the workers these companies are nothing but a good idea (in some cases, like Enron, perhaps not such a good idea)....

    You can create your dream concept and gather investors and capital, but without people working to turn the dream into reality there is nothing...there is no profit to divide...

    You can get a charter, like the Virginia Company, get money, and even steal land...but unless you get the bodies to dig, plow, chop, sew, load, construct and so forth, you have nothing at all....  And our "founding" legacy?  Indentured servitude and slavery....the importation of cheaper and cheaper labor simply to undermine the already existing workforce...with armed thugs and police acting on behalf of the employer...  Connected to the police are judges...and then it comes down to the legislation that has been enacted and interpreted..do I need to take it any further?

    Collective bargaining continues to be, in my opinion, one of the key ways for people to improve their working conditions....and, as with the "prevailing wage" concept that operates, at least, in the construction field...it is only because there are union workers still in existence that non-union counterparts receive good pay....

    My brother is an electrician, and he is not a union member...  The project he is currently working on the constrution of a new airport terminal..  Based on the work contract, all the workers, regardless of union membership get union rates...or the prevailing wage...

    Therefore, while not being directly a union member, there are benefits to having them around.....it gives nonunion jobs something to compete with...

    Evan...you are about "freedom" and the "free market" and open competition.  If we have the constitutional right to organize and voice grievances to government, it makes perfect sense that a company, being a reflection of government only operating because the government gave it permission to do so (licensing, registering and so forth), should allow the same freedoms....

    There is a process to enable unionization, and it requires certified voting....as with our overall society...

    Unfortunately, the independent contractor status is a loophole increasingly being utilized by business to keep workers from having the ability to organize...

    Also, though a worker may be working full time for a certain company "A", but this company technically hired the worker from "Temp" agency "B". This pool of workers would have to, under current law, win two different elections, one with each company, in order to gain unionization....a daunting task that has rarely happened..if ever...for if it has I am unaware of it...

    Walmart is a major force in this arena...and since they are the biggest, they huild the pattern that the others follow...

    The last time I checked, and its been a good year and a half, the temp/independent contractor niche is rapidly expanding....it was up over 500%... 

    Beyond finding was of avoiding legal jurisdiction altogether, business spends billions on union-busting and anti-union goods and services (for the corporate board has the financial advantage of using profits to protect itself)... In comparison...union dues are quite paltry...at least from my experience while a member of the Food and Grocery Workers Union... United Auto Workers members pay equivalent to two hours worth of work per month... 

    http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/view.add … rceID=2139

    Oh no!  That union is stealing their money!....for the benefits that UAW workers, alone, have held since their inception, 100 dollars (if the workers are making 50 bucks an hour...which is not at all reality) is money well spent...

    My main point, company leadership as well as company associations (groups of business owners within sectors, industries and such) already work as a unit... Taking this in consideration with the long, storied history of worker abuse in this nation alone over the past 300 years...it makes perfect sense to enable a path for worker based, non-management checks and balances...

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image78
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think you're twisting a bit of what I'm saying, so let me be clear.

      Individuals have the right of free association. They have the right to voluntarily enter into any agreement with others that they deem fit, so long as it does not interfere with any other's ability to do the same.

      Thus, making it illegal to collectively bargain is tyranny. Thus, preventing a company from firing someone is also tyranny.

      Unless I previously voluntarily agreed to not fire someone, then I should be allowed to fire whomever I want.

  11. TMMason profile image63
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    Another example of why the Unions need to be gone.

    Wednesday, April 20, 2011
    Scranton Police Union Objects To Non-Union Police Chief Making Arrests
    If you have a better example of public sector union idiocy, please post the link in the comments.

    The police union in Scranton, PA has filed a grievance against the city because the non-union police chief made an arrest while off-duty.   

    The union claims that the police chief is not allowed to make arrests because under the union contract only "bargaining unit" members can make arrests.  As reported by the Scranton Times Tribune (h/t reader James):

    The complaint, which was filed with the state Labor Relations Board on April 14, takes issue with the chief arresting a man who was allegedly in possession of marijuana because the chief is not a member of the collective bargaining unit and was "off duty" when the March 20 arrest was made.

    "I think it's absurd. I'm not going to turn my head on crime that takes place," Chief Duffy said. "I took the same oath (as a police officer) that everyone else took.

    "On my day off and I'm driving around as the police chief, and that's wrong?" he asked.

    The complaint states that "the work of apprehending and arresting individuals has been the sole and exclusive province of members of the bargaining unit," and that the city did not inform or negotiate with the union that the chief would be "performing bargaining unit work."

    Because of this, the union says the city violated the state Labor Relations Act and the Policemen and Firemen Collective Bargaining Act.

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2 … o-non.html

    What a joke these Unions have become. this is just the icing on hte cake. if America allows these trashy, retarded, unaceptable Unions to continue, then we are all doomed.

    1. profile image0
      Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you really want me to start posting a list of corporate abuses in response? Really? We don't have enough time there are so many.

      1. TMMason profile image63
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know Corps are not perfect, but they are your boss when you have a job with them,... not you there boss. See how that works?

        And you really want to Save the economy then, lower gains tax, lower the Corp tax, cease all offshore out-sourcing, a Dem and Progressive trap... between all the above, who would want to open a Co in America and employ anyone, and then add in the Union wages and benis and all the BS the unions pull... no wonder our economy is screwed.

        And then the Pols, Democrats, have to play banker and build bubbles they knew were unsustainable.. called Fanny and freddie.

        So it isn't all the Corps fault, as much as you want to blame them only.

        1. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So you ignore every reason WHY we need unions under the guise of "they have the right to abuse you." You are simply a corporate apologist in favor of sacrificing collective bargaining rights, any method of the worker establishing anything.
          The capital gains tax is ALREADY low; the top 5% of corporations in the US paid an average corporate tax of 2.2%, and we only have enough oil in the entire country to cover our needs for 1 year, thus not affecting the price to us in any regard. So, your points are proven wrong AGAIN. Further, personal income taxes are lower now than any time since Eisenhower. The problem isn't that taxes are too high, but that we have allowed people like to you to allow pushing through so many breaks and loopholes, that the revenue is again...at its lowest point since Eisenhower when adjusted to inflation.
          You are simply a corporate shill, and apologist. Unions account for only 7% of the population, so accusing them of pulling so much from it is ridiculous, and a sign of ignorance.
          All of these are easily looked up, but I know you won't do it. You don't care what is real, just what reassures you of beliefs you already have.
          SO, you entire point was proven incorrect, and quite scummy...you apologize for the very people who stole from the world and brought down the entire economy..the banks, and say they had to.
          You bring shame to my country.

          1. TMMason profile image63
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I didn't say they have the right to abuse you.. another product of your flawed translations and ill concieved comprehension. I said they have a right to act as if they own the Co., and are your boss. Because they do, and they are.

            Read what I say tex... not what you think I say.

            1. profile image0
              Texasbetaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Alright, then define how they have the right to act.

  12. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Yup....we'd import cheap labor from Mexico or elsewhere and then remove them when they aren't needed anymore...

    That's called good 'ol fashioned Americana.... 

    We'll do it Bracero style.....just the way big business likes it...

    or...

    If they have citizenship...especially if they are of Mexican descent....we can throw them over the border too....(a rerun of the 1930's all over again)..

    I just wonder how many American citizens have been denied their birthrights, like those I have just mentioned...

    Not all 50 states have the same resources...and not all are able to keep their infrastructure up to date, especially when faced with unfunded mandates, like "No Child Left Behind" and having to send money to the federal government for a certain couple of wars that have been carrying on for the past decade....

    Mason speaks of freedoms....except when it involves those at the bottom of the capitalist food chain organizing for themselves....

    With all the demagoguery towards organized labor that he spews...it makes perfect sense that he would pick Mr. McCarthy as an avatar....

    What a loon and tool that man was...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It wasn't Mccarthy who ran operation wetback, and the BS you spew about him was done by the American Left and Progressives. Learn a lil history.

  13. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Who said he was?

    Not I....

    Keep following the deranged path of your mentor/avatar....

    Loony Tools...like two peas in a pod....

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hahaaaaa.

  14. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Mason, are you looking in the mirror?

    And seeing McCarthy no doubt...

    By the way, when I spoke of the deportion of American citizens of Mexican descent I am not referring to Operaton Wetback....  I clearly pointed to the 1930's.....and you choose to then disregard a clear Constitutional crisis and point out something several decades later?

    I am not surprised by the cheap "duck and dodge" tactics that you continue to use... 

    But you can't outpace actual history, as opposed to the glossed over construction that is commonly taught in schools...

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp … mp;bih=525

    I need not select a single site.... I'll enable your obvious dedication to truth and country (at least your twist on it) run free.....

    Then compare this track record (which only Americans have forgotten) to the immigration laws that have popped up in several GOP led states...

    We then juxtapose this to the demise of the economy due to the greed of the financial sector taking advantage and exploiting government policies...whether in housing and the urban development sector as a whole...and the leverage they held over our "way of life" that pushed Republicans and Democrats alike to keep them rolling while the "average American" ceases to be a reality:

    http://www.slideshare.net/lsccyfairall/ … omy-part-2

    I will be waiting for a cognizant response, Mason.

  15. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Actually, I will cheat a little....

    Here's a good cite to point out specifically:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 … over_x.htm

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry bout me mike... go continue to further your own education. hahaha I am all set with my own.

      Greed of the financial sector... like fanny and freddy? You all want to lay all the blame on private sector Cos., the wealthy, and the banks... what about all the Unions? And those people who pulled Morts they couldn'tpossibly afford, and bilked the Govt and private sector in other ways. The system has been bilked all around the table, and the a unions are a part of that problem.

      I blame many, unlike you an the Leant Leftists on here who blame only the Right and Cos. The Progressive Right is just as bad as the rest of their leant leftists buddies. America is tired of the class warfare and violent tactics of the left i this nation, and as I stated in other posts, i love it, you all keep it up, America is moving to the Right... the pendulum swings... and you all are pushing further every day with your one-sided blame and class warfare, you brown shirt tactis and gestapo mentallity.

  16. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Mason...the private financial sector dominates the public system...

    The Federal Reserve is comprised of the major banking houses...

    Private firm board members and executives incessantly criss-cross in and out of government office...

    So....while a policy is crafted by legislators and signed by chief executives...(who, some more than others, receive political funding, gifts, and preferential treatment by the same private banking houses and others, the focus then has to be on the implementation of the policies..

    You look to blame people like teachers, social workers, and administrative staff (largely paying from 25 to 60 thousand dollars per year with diminishing benefits) while ignoring the vast interconnectedness of the management..  Private sector, public sector...it doesn't matter...

    It is quite evident, however, that you haven't looked at the links that I have provided, and decided to disregard the substance I left to drivvel over an interpretation of a single portion of my comment...

    That's very Fox Newsy of you..  Perhaps Limbaugh-esq is a better term..

    I want to redirect you again to the links regarding a serious Constitutional crisis of the not-very distant past as similar themes are returning to social consciousness...

    You can't outrun this Mason, no matter how much you try..

    Read.....learn....  Continue your own education before you begin counseling others...

  17. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Mason, I do find your comments especially entertaining coming from that avatar of yours...

    In terms of acting on the Hubpages forum stage, you definitely deserve an award for your accurate portrayal of the poor sap late Senator from Wisconsin...

    Bravo!






    How to measure criteria:

    -Avoidance of substantive discussion of issues at hand while emphasizing the use of epithets and degrading stereotypes (unrelated to the target of the terms used) to attempt to belittle those who voice opposing views   (I give you a '9' out of '10'...you at least redirected to a small snippet of something that I said...irrelevant as the response actually was)

    -Deriding others for name-calling and personal attacks while oblivious to personal hypocrisy  (I have to award a "10" out of "10" on this one...you really have outshined the rest...of course...if the Unloved Lady were still around you could have had some competition)

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I blame ALL who deserve it... unlike the biased left and Progressive Right.

      And that is just the way it is, mike. There is plenty of blame on all sides and your refusal to even aknowlege that fact, exemplifies exactly what I am talking about.

  18. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Mason, I think I have made myself abundantly clear in this thread...

    I don't, at this point, see the Democratic or Republican parties as dissimilar..  While the names and images attempt to paint a bipolarity between them, our politics is far more regionally based...with changes that have been influenced over time by immigration and differing demographic shifts..

    While the San Fernando Valley, largely comprised of "ethnic minority" populations of diverse types, is also Democrat dominated, the mostly "white" Orange County is mostly Republican..

    Yet, there are many Democrats who find far more comfort in the arms of Republicans than vise versa..

    The blatant hypocrisy related to the ignoring of the Senator using prostitutes to run the Representative with dirty pictures out of office is just one example of this...

    While I support worker organization, I also realize that unions were tools of racial segregation and exploitation... 

    But, whether worker centers, like the Malibu Labor Exchange and the Koreatown Immigrant Workers Alliance, or worker halls, as used by the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, the ability for workers, especially the most marginalized, to combine forces in order to gain justice is a truly American aspiration...  The desire to be free of tyranny cuts to our core...

    Let me redirect you to these sites...

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 … over_x.htm
    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp … mp;bih=525
    http://www.slideshare.net/lsccyfairall/ … omy-part-2

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The first one comes up outside array.. etc

      The second is a balnk whit epage

      The third i am not interested in

  19. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago
    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The first one.. if your born to illegals you are an illegal. Period. And we will not apologize for then... or when we deport them in again.

      As for the other... I have never denied that there was racism in the US, and I/we dont dwell on it either. We have moved on since the 30s and those days are gone by already.

      You all are so anal about the past. We remember, we do not dwell. We have moved far beyond that era and those days and actions. I know the Left will argue there is institutional and individual racism everywhere in the USA... and I and many others dis-agree.

      To continue calling people racists and claim there is, when there is not, just to use the race card and instigate class warfare based on such a claim, is as bad as being a racist yourself.

      Will one find individual racists in the USA, of course there is, same as everywhere in the world. It is their right to be a racist if they want to, unacceptable as it is, it is their's to do.

      And racists come in all colors.

      Other than that I am going to lay back down for a few... I have been up all night working on some things and need a lil shut-eye. I will answer anything else when I return mike.

  20. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    If one is an American citizen they are a citizen....

    Secondly, you must not have read the entire article... 

    In terms of your term "illegality" please redirect your attention to the "strict" criteria for legal entry into this nation prior to this "repatriation"

    "A pressure campaign

    In the early 1900s, Mexicans poured into the USA, welcomed by U.S. factory and farm owners who needed their labor. Until entry rules tightened in 1924, they simply paid a nickel to cross the border and get visas for legal residency.

    "The vast majority were here legally, because it was so easy to enter legally," says Kevin Johnson, a law professor at the University of California, Davis.

    They spread out across the nation. They sharecropped in California, Texas and Louisiana, harvested sugar beets in Montana and Minnesota, laid railroad tracks in Kansas, mined coal in Utah and Oklahoma, packed meat in Chicago and assembled cars in Detroit.

    By 1930, the U.S. Census counted 1.42 million people of Mexican ancestry, and 805,535 of them were U.S. born, up from 700,541 in 1920.

    Change came in 1929, as the stock market and U.S. economy crashed. That year, U.S. officials tightened visa rules, reducing legal immigration from Mexico to a trickle. They also discussed what to do with those already in the USA." 

    (From the USA Today article)

    "Illegal" was simply a term coined by those who are manipulating the larger public...playing with racism..

    Of course...to expect you to actually spend the time to comprehend an article opposing your prejudices is to look to Jesus'coming in the clouds....

    To not be interested in the Citigroup memo is the most amazing of all your statements...

    Thank you for unequivically showing publicly your 1) desire to remain uninformed, 2) willingness to waste your brain and energy, and 3) your clearly evident prejudial viewpoints

    Like I said before....

    You win the award for best actor through your McCarthy-esq performance...  You are your avatar...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, it is always because we are racist bigots, not because we simply do not agree with you. Fine we will refund their nickels. Tell em the check is in the mail. Or the can tack it on the cost of their sacks of weed they sell us.smile

      And your own biases shine through, and they are blinding.

  21. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Yes Mason....that is the legacy that has come forward over 300 years...

    To use "them" in terms of "refunding nickels" in the same breath that you mention the importation of weed demonstates the very racism you mentioned...

    You have become the posterboy of this bigotry...

    Good job!!

    Thanks for showing us all how minescule your intellect and how shallow your reasoning skills are!

    Again, you picked the perfect avatar for your hypocrisy...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Whatever mike. Do we owe you a nickel? It is in the mail.

  22. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    That's exactly the type of cognizant remark I have come to expect, Mason...

    You can't face reality...so you resort to baseless, self-insulting (on your part) mockery...

    Since you brought up weed, you may as well learn more about its history in this nation....

    http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why … a-illegal/

    Race was and continues to be a major theme in this nation, overtly and covertly...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh what a laugh. You all have spent days insulting me at every turn and comment... and now your mad cause I make a few jokes. Whatever. And I don't need any sources from you I am well aware of the history of weed in this nation.

  23. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Thank you for demonstrating to us the definition of "projection" Mason...

    Keep painting yourself in victim's clothing...

    The only one fooled here is you....

    No substance......as usual on your part...


    Concerning history in the United States, based on your comments in this thread up to this point your "knowledge" of it has not been demonstrated very well....

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Keep lying about what I say, mike. I have not claimed the victim card at all. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in your remarks.

  24. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    "You all have spent days insulting me at every turn"<---Mason


    There seems to be only one liar here......and he has a pretty low Hubber score regardless of how hard he tries to stay atop the forums rankings...

    Trivial pursuits personified...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "Oh what a laugh. You all have spent days insulting me at every turn and comment... and now your mad cause I make a few jokes."

      Keep it in context mike. Do not try to twist my words into your lies.

  25. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    I need not twist anything.... Everything here is open and in public...

    Keep projecting, Mason...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, they can.

    2. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Mike, you aren't agreeing with everything he says, therefore you are twisting! smile

  26. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Mason...how does "yes they can" respond logically to my statement?

    You cease to make sense...

    John....

    I agree wholeheartedly... 

    While Mason wishes to paint my emotional state when composing my thoughts as angry, it is rather with disappointment that this person is incapable of critical thought...at least anything that rocks his worldview...

    By following the amount of time that, for the most part, it has taken for him to respond to my statements (or rather, the lack of time), it becomes clearly evident that he spend next to zero time considering the articles I brought to bear....

    For Mason, spewing with "American patriotic fervor" truly doesn't care.....at least from the McCarthyesq performances he puts on here...  (and it is then interesting how the stage actor offers the critic a nickel...perhaps he's trying to buy my support?)

    On another note I think, to spice this site up and enable us to truly express ourselves, Hubpages should expand this forum arena into a live feed with video capabilities... Debates real time face to face...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So you think you spout the unknown?... Arguments I have never read, or heard before? And I told you several of the links simply didn't open to anything at all.

      this is the message I keep getting from several of them

      Index was outside the bounds of the array.
      at PLT.Fronts.Common.GenericRequestParser.Execute(HttpContext context, String[] pathParts, NameValueCollection queryParts)
      at PLT.Core.RequestManager.ProcessRequest(HttpContext context)
      ---------------------------------------------

      So I don't know what you expect from me on them. As far as the others, I have heard the arguments and stories already, adn I am a quick reader and comprehend fully. Unlike many on here. So do not assume you know alot of things no one else does. Cuase that would be false.

  27. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    That's funny, Mason..

    I know that one of the links didn't work...and I promptly reposted it, and even checking it myself....

    This is the link to which I am referring:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 … over_x.htm

    Did this one work for you?

  28. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    It did for me....


    You said yourself that you weren't interested in reading this one:

    http://www.slideshare.net/lsccyfairall/ … omy-part-2

    It works.....but you decided not to...

    I need to twist nothing....your words are here for all to see...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Index was outside the bounds of the array.
      at PLT.Fronts.Common.GenericRequestParser.Execute(HttpContext context, String[] pathParts, NameValueCollection queryParts)
      at PLT.Core.RequestManager.ProcessRequest(HttpContext context)
      ---------------------------------------------
      Again that is the message... I just cut and pasted it in there. the first time I opened it ealier it said welcome to slideshow present yourself adn had a long list of what is the roi of your mother... and then I click on them and get..

      the same message with let us download flashplayer 9 into your system... And I will not.. i do not trust the site i do not know them... And I will not go through every link in there to see... what?... i don't know. as I said I am not interested in this site.

  29. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Then there was the first link:

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp … mp;bih=525

    It works....and it was put forward so that you can do research of your own and come to your individual conclusion based off the evidence...

    It is to these matters that I would like an actual response....and not some quickly spouted, generalized, even bigoted posting...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      And this one is a google page on the deportations of the 29 through 35s which I am aware of.. and do not care to read through the hundred or more links you want me to. Too bad if you  do not like that I do not agree with you. You know we had alot of problems with mexico and banditry and other issues all through the early 1900s and to state it was one sided is absurd. So... go read your own list og google pages.

      Gee who was in office 29, 30, 31 32 33, 34 35,... and I don't care that you don't agree with me or like my opinion of it. If I had a nickel for every site some leftist wanted me to read... I would have a thousand dollars from just your list.

      Yeah I will spend all day re-hashing google pages of history I am aware of and do not agree with you on. Was it a bad time. Yes. Do I feel falliong down remorsful for it? NO. America has moved on... all but the leftists that is.

      So stop being so anal about the past. We remember, but we do not dwell on it. We have learned and grown since then. Stop trying to drag us back into it. You would love to classify America based solely on the bad parts of our past. We have also done great things for this world, and done much good in it. We are not the only country to have had a racist past, done bad things, all of them have.

      And I do not have to write anything in any way you want... go teach a class of kids if you weant to play teacher. I will not be talked to like a child by you. I know plenty about the history of this nation and others. You sound just like one of those whiny teachers who gets mad when the class won't listen and parrot back what you say.

  30. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    From the Marine Corps/military as a whole to the k-12/community college/university systems, to the other employment or other countless social experiences I have had, I base my communication off the statistical analysis I have compiled over time and also to my own exposure to these topics...

    I have had the opportunity to randomly sample numerous and diverse populations of Americans and to discuss the very issues I am raising here.... 

    Overwhelmingly Americans do not know of topics like Repatriation, or of the contents of memos like those that emerged from Citigroup...

    While immigration history is widely talked about, very few know what the policies of the past actually were....

    If this were Vegas, I'd bet the house that you knew nothing of the 5 cents for instant legalization policy.....  But that doesn't stop you from minimizing it, and then turning it into a childish joke...

    But, that is the typical behavior I hae witnessed from you over time....  It is simply who you are...

    This is another reason why I think a live video feed would be great....those who masquerade would be quickly identified....

  31. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    All the links I just posted work just fine...

    The Google link you just quoted is to a plethora of pages...not one.. Use the multiplicity of viewpoints to gather your perspective...

    We had problems with Mexican banditry?

    Again...you have decided to tell a partial truth, while disregarding the larger percentage of the story that you choose to not like... 

    Regardless....it is still there...

    Shall be begin the Porfiriato and the internal dynamiics of Mexico driven largely by United States interests and profits?

    http://www.mongabay.com/history/mexico/ … ation.html

    You can Google search the overall topic...

    We can then identify and analyze the justification of "Mexican banditry" that you use to further distract the Constitutional crisis that took place....

    I would also wager that you have minimal knowledge of Porfirio Diaz or his regime...  I would love the live video feed..

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      A plethora of one view, thus the 1000 dollars in nickels... no comprehension.

      now go back to your class.

      And no, some of them do not work, what do think I made up that message? Right. And I will not spend my day running from site to site so you can attempt your re-education. We do not agree, it is that simple get over it.

  32. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Being "anal" about the past?


    I don't precisely know what that is supposed to infer...

    Without the past there is no present or future... You and I did not just arrive into blank environments...  Where we live, how we arrived here, history connects it all..

    Just because you don't want to see totality of history doesn't mean you have to mock those who try to light up the room...  You don't have to respond...you can remain in your Socratic Cave...

    But, I think you might be eyeballing that number one spot on the forums board and more interested in stroking your own ego..

    "Go back to your class"<--Mason

    Thanks for making my point for me...

    Without knowing what took place in the early 20th century (not to downplay or discount what came before in any way), how can one truly understand the racist tint in the current immigration policies being proposed or emplaced in "conservative" states?

    Thanks again Mr. McCarthy.....it is a good thing that, unlike your avatar, you will never rise to high political office...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I see the totality of history, I know it wasn't just Americans and White peoples fault, unlike yourself. You seem to think all bad is America and the white man and the Conservatibve right, and I say there is bad in all countries and all peoples. And good in them also. So you tell me about totallity.

      And I have already been in Politics and left that retarded sphere of power and games played. You really do not know a thing about me.

      Lets talk about Woodrow Wilson re-segragating the Govt and Army, lets talk about how Black jack Pershing and America could have kept Mexico city and we didn't, lets talk about the radical republicans and their attempts to save the blacks from being re-enslaved by the Dixiecrats, and then the Dixiecrat Johnson who let them go back into bondage, lets talk about how racist America after winning WWII could have oppressed the japanese in japan, but we brought them back as equals to the table. Lets talk about FDR emprisoning the American Japanese, he is a dem, and the german Americans. Lets talk about illegals running north during each war to take over cities and jobs while patriotic American boys were sent to war, and then wondering why those boys were mad to come home and be cut out by them.

      Some American history is bad... and some evil... but also  there is much good, great things in our history. There is more to this nation that what you talk about.

      And those policies you are talking about came about from the Progressive and Liberal influence which siezed our Govt in the early 20th century such as W. Wilsons actions. How about the leftist hero Margeret Sanger... oh so much to be said about the Progressives and liberals, and the way they have minipulated our policies and history to make us look just plain evil... and there is more to the USA then that.

      So go learn about that.

      And again,.. we do not live in the past, we remember and we learn and we grow. We do not dwell on it anally like an OCD case.

  33. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    I pointed to the exploitation of Mexican politics and economy by the United States as a whole....not from a partisan perspective..

    In fact, my opinions on the history of American foreign policy do not stray far from Ron Paul's....and he is running on the Republican ticket, and is considered a conservative, is he not?

    When I pointed to "Repatriation" did I blame a political party? 

    Not at all...

    Keep trying to spin my words...

    It is your only way to continue dodging what I have brought....

    You try to say I'm portraying "white man's fault", and through your examples your communicating "by white man's mercy"....  Evidently the monopoly on power created for a minority of the "white" caste was disproportionately great....

    What political affiliation does Citigroup fund?

    What political party is defending against this:

    http://www.slideshare.net/lsccyfairall/ … omy-part-2


    Oh...I forgot...you didn't want to read this one...

    It must be a product of the "brown shirt" "leftist" "commie" underground that you keep trying to associate me with...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Ron Paul is a Libertarian and has no chance of winning the nomination or the Conservative vote.

      And I told you when it does open it says slideshow, download this flash 9, adn I have flash 9 I will not download off the site, I do not know it. that is not to hard to understand. I have flash 9 but it won't run it?.. So...

      Do you dowload of site you do not know, for things already in your system? I do not.

  34. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Well, if this is the case regarding the Citigroup link then google search the plutonomy memos.. You will find an abundance of information about them...

    1. TMMason profile image63
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I will later I am finishing a hub to post tonite right now. I will go look at it though, mike. I give you my word.

  35. mikelong profile image74
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Thanks.... 

    You can check some of these out:


    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp … mp;bih=492

 
working