Thousands Protest Anti-Union Bill In Wisconsin

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   Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Z1AO3yG_8
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AbeAcTi … re=related
   
   The latest news--The State Police are trying to track down the Democrat legislators at least one of which is needed for a quorum so that a vote may be taken on the governor's bill. The Dems have disappeared in order to prevent a vote.
   
   Democrats Missing, Vote Delayed in Wisconsin
   
   http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/us/18 … in.html?hp

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      lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its not an anti union bill... its a PRO tax payer bill!

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah!  A PRO Taxpayer Bill! 
         
         Gov Walker just took office this year - he said he was going to make changes, and the people elected him anyway.  Wonder what everyone was thinking?  lol  I know I was expecting CHANGE!

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            lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            What people were thinking is they'd elect someone with the courage to take on the special interests that are bankrupting their state... and that is what they got!

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               Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               omg - people are angry and want him out of office already!  lol  It's just crazy!!  They're not happy with the results of their vote, I guess.  Not now that he's actually following through with his tough stance. 
               
               (I say I was expecting change, but really I expected him to go back on his word.  I should have said I was HOPING for change! lol)

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                  lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  What people are angry the teachers? Or all the OFA people that were bussed in or the students that missed meals because the schools were closed and will have to make up the time?

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                     Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     teachers mostly (teachers are the largest chunk of state employees to be affected by the bill)
                     
                     but, firefighters, ems, students, parents, UW students and gawd only knows who else, are protesting in support of the teachers!  25000 people 3 days in a row, protesting at the state capital!! 
                     
                     On Tuesday 800 students walked out of my sons high school and marched 2 miles to the capital building, with a police escort!
                     http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ … 03286.html

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               Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               crae to offer any proof that it is the unions bankrupting this state or you gonna stick with the tried and true it's because I believe it line of reasoning you usually use?

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                  lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Generally speaking that's the case... go check out my thread on the history of public sector unions.

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               lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               BS!
               He gave corporations 140 mil in tax breaks. That caused more deficit to fill...on whose back?
               Walker shills for Koch, which is big oil, which is bankrupting the whole world.

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            lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            A change?
            Back to Bush and Reagan...how is that change?

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         Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That's right lady, this bill protects the tax paying workers from theives like your heroes.

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         lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well--he just gave 150 mil to big business.....that's taxes too.
         
         I don't like that....I count as much as you do.
         
         And as you can see---there are PLENTY like me!!!!
         
         
         You do not own America, though you think you do.

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            lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            He "gave" 150 million... or he let them KEEP what was there's to begin with?

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               lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               How is it "theirs"?? We gave it to them by buying their products. It's a quid-pro-qou relationship.
               So is living here and paying taxes.
               Problem is, some want the quid without the pro.
               
               You claim it's some of the poor and middle class, I say it's some of the wealthy.
               
               It is prolly both...but when you think about it....
               
               Which is worse?
               
               Taking because you have nothing, or taking because you want more more more?

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                  lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You seem to lack understanding of investment, and private property.

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                     uncorrectedvisionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Understatement much? You could have stopped at "You seem to lack understanding."

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                     lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Private property...like my body?
                     
                     Oh yeah...you reeaallly understand that one!!

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      wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What a statement on our politicians.  One party disappears to prevent the orderly conduction of business instead of doing what they are paid to do, while the second party sends the cops after them to force them to allow a law they don't want.  Democracy in action, for sure!
      
      It makes you wonder where we find these idiots.  Wonder if the cops have orders to drag them into chambers by force?  In handcuffs and leg irons maybe, so they can't run away again?

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         Stump Parrishposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         We find most of them in a church every sunday.

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         Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That would be a picture; politicians in cuffs to "come back" and do their jobs.
         Whether the Democrats are for or against the bill they have the elected obligation to the people to do Their Job!!!
         
         If I walked away from a job I would be fired immediately. Politicians should be held to same standard.

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            wildernessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That's my feeling as well.  They should be held to the same standards I am.  Unfortunately, politicians standards are simply whatever will get them re-elected and/or gain more power.

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            lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            What standard??
            The Republicans have done nothing but stall governing for two years...and collected $167,000 + each for doing so!
            
            What the Democrats have done is force the Republicans to listen to the people.
            
            You know...that thing you were all so happy about when the Tea-P'ers were doing it?

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               uncorrectedvisionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               How could Republicans stall anything having minorities in both houses.  The Democrats held all legislative and executive power while expanding administrative power.  Until Scott Brown's election in Massachusetts Democrats had a filibuster proof Senate.  Stalled what?
               
               But that doesn't feed your coproscopic fantasy.

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      Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Also, just to clarify, 2 Rep legislators were also absent, meaning only 17 were left for a vote when 20 were required for a quorum.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. Keep us posted. Looks like the Egypt-Middle East syndrome jumped to Madison.

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            Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            lol
            
            I'm very interested in other people's opinions on this, because to me it sounds like the teachers are extremely petty and selfish.
            
            Their protesting because the Bill would limit Collective Bargaining rights and they (the teachers) would be required to contribute 5% of their income to their retirement package as well as 12% for their insurance benefits.  (the average employee pays about 5.8% for retirement and around 24-25% for insurance)
            
            I'll be right back with the link to the bill.
            
            EDIT:  Here is the press release for the bill:
            
            http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=226535

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               Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Well, I don't know anything about how teachers' wages compare with comparable employees in the private sector or about the history of their negotiations on pensions and health care insurance. If they're similar to Michigan teachers their wages and benefits are pretty rich, and it's probably not unreasonable to expect them to share in the pain of balancing the budget along with everybody else. However, the governor over-reached when he demanded that the future role of the teacher's union be curtailed. That seems to be the main sticking point.

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                  Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  From what I understand the collective bargaining would still be in place for base pay, but bargaining for compensation in the form of monetary benefits (insurance & retirement funds) would end.
                  
                  http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-sa … onsin.html
                  (link for teacher salaries - you can look up by state)
                  
                  The average teacher salary, in WI, was $52,665 in 2009-2010. 
                  
                  The Dems have been found, in Rockford, Ill, at the Clock Tower Resort (but have since left to find a more secure location).
                  
                  Gov Walker feels the Dems behavior is very disrespectful toward the citizens of WI who pay the legislatures salaries, and reminds the Dems that they are more than able to propose amendments rather than not show up for work.
                  
                  Over 25,000 protesters have congregated on the Capital Square and inside the Capital Rotunda.  9 arrests have been made related to the protests.
                  
                  A high school student (with a minority opinion) supports Gov Walker and says the bill is "not a radical" proposal.   
                  
                  An emergency council meeting is being held to pass this year's teacher negotiations before the bill passes.  (I'll have to update this after 9 or 10 o'clock news.  I'd stopped paying attention b/c I thought it was about something else)

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               uncorrectedvisionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Let's see, union members, public employees, democrats, liberal state and a liberal profession and they are petty - that just can't be true.  One of the essential aspects of liberalism is the petty.

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      DTR0005posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ralph, you have a strong labor background. What's your take on what appears to be an assualt on the right to collective bargaining?

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         In my opinion, the governor over-reached in his proposal to curtail the collective bargaining rights of the teachers. I'm not aware of any precedent for that. (My background "in labor" was representing an auto company in negotiations with the UAW. I am a believer in the process of free collective bargaining between employers and representatives of their employees. Collective bargaining arose out of the tendency of employers to treat their workers unfairly and/or to fail to understand or appreciate the needs felt by  employees.)

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            Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            As a member of a government union I will tell you how I feel. I do not want to strike. I am prohibited from striking or participating in a work slowdown. What I do for the benefit of the public is too important to be subject to interruption of service. Recognizing this fact, many government unions have clauses which prohibit a strike but make binding arbitration mandatory if management and labor can't reach an agreement.
            
            Binding arbitration means a judge hears arguments from management and labor and decides what the contract will be. If you kill binding arbitration and/or collective bargaining - while at the same time you maintain a no-strike clause, the government employees are required to accept whatever they are offered. Period. It's like taking a jump back 60 years in labor relations.

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               Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I would think this step wouldn't even be a consideration if the Teachers Union would be responsible in their negotiations.  Ya know?  I mean, contributing 5% for retirement isn't a lot, and 12% for insurance isn't exactly unreasonable.

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               lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Not much freedom there eh?
               Much like being forced to take whatever mgnt. dishes out.
               
               Kind of their whole agenda really---forced gvt policies...as long as it's Republican policies, that is. Then they don't call it forced, but "freedom".
               Orwell must be spinning like a top.

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      JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ralph Deeds
      You said ''My background "in labor" was representing an auto company in negotiations with the UAW. I am a believer in the
      
      DESTRUCTION OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY.
      Tell us more about those cotract agreements
      
      PUBLIC UNION EMPLOYEES ( taxpayer money supported ) should not make more than a similar job in the private sector,fairness or a right?
      
      CHECK THIS  OUT
      
      The problem is that there is no completive bidding or comparison or competition to the union
      The average pay for a PUBLIC worker is $70,000 plus 40,000 in fringe benefits ( $110,000 ), public unemployment is 3% and Obama has increased the deficit 4 x 1.3 ( Bush deficit )more than president Bush.
      
      The average pay in the PRIVATE sector is $50,000 plus $ 9000 in fringe benefits ($59,000) , private unemployment is 9.7%+
      and the government will have spent $ billions in extending unemployment benefits.
      The government has hired 200,000 new employees, increased the  size of government 20% and started 250 new agencies. Oh forgot, the US Government controls 60% of the economy.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The decline in U.S. market share of GM, Ford and Chrysler is attributable to several causes, the principal ones being errors by managements, unrestricted free trade with countries where auto and auto parts workers were paid a tiny fraction of the wages in U.S. companies, and the failure of the companies to develop a successful strategy of dealing with the UAW which used its power to extract high wages and benefits for employees. One of the biggest problems was the "legacy costs" of pensions and health care for hundreds of thousands of retirees which was not a factor for the Japanese and German transplant assembly operations in the U.S. To attribute U.S. auto company problems solely or even principally to the union contracts is a gross over-simplification.

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      classicalgeekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Everyone who reports the news, and everyone who works on the set that reports the news, is a member of a union.
      
      So if you see a TV commentator talking about how unions are bad, remember that he is union too.

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   C.J. Wrightposted 14 years ago

   I can't believe that teachers took students to the protest. I'm wondering what kind of legal issues will arise from that.

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      Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Teachers didn't take students (other than their own children)
      
      On Tues many teachers and students walked out of class/school to attend the protests.  Due to Tues events schools have been closed Wed & Thurs due to Teachers Protesting.

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   prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago

   http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-the-m … 48381.html
   
   How the middle class became the underclass
   
   "One major pull on the working man was the decline of unions and other labor protections, said Bill Rodgers, a former chief economist for the Labor Department, now a professor at Rutgers University.
   
   Because of deals struck through collective bargaining, union workers have traditionally earned 15% to 20% more than their non-union counterparts, Rodgers said.
   
   But union membership has declined rapidly over the past 30 years. In 1983, union workers made up about 20% of the workforce. In 2010, they represented less than 12%.
   
   "The erosion of collective bargaining is a key factor to explain why low-wage workers and middle income workers have seen their wages not stay up with inflation," Rodgers said.
   
   Without collective bargaining pushing up wages, especially for blue-collar work -- average incomes have stagnated."
   _____________________
   
   
   Tough times, hope they can still find some other ways to amend the shortfall in the budget but CBA should not be sacrificed.

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   Rafiniposted 14 years ago

   Here's a link to another forum with a link to a different news release:
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/67832
   
   According to CBS News:
   
   WI has a 3.5 Billion budget deficit and this Budget Repair Bill would affect 300,000 state employees.  At a cost of $2,900 per year (for each of the 300,000 affected state employees) over $330 Million will be saved over the next 2 years.  Gov Walker has promised (threatened?) 5500-6000 layoffs if the bill doesn't pass. 
   
   (this bill wouldn't affect local or state police or fire fighters)
   
   I'm glad we finally have a Gov who's willing to take a tough stand to get things done!

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      John Holdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not sure how things work in the US but won't making 300,000 employees redundant have a cost?
      Won't they have any responsibility for those thrown out of work and won't that responsibility have a cost?
      
      I'm thinking that in the 80s in the UK the government decided that to cut public spending they would make thousands of public service workers redundant. As a result of this tax revenues fell dramatically and public expenditure rocketed.

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         the 300,000 would be contributing to their retirement (for the first time, I think) and their health insurance cost would increase (from 6% to 12%).  They wouldn't be out of work - however, the Gov has promised (or threatened) a 6000 person layoff if and only if the bill doesn't pass.

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            John Holdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Rafini.

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         Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         John - you are bright enough to understand that the strategy is counterproductive at best. Conservatives continue to try to make the overall pie smaller - cutting the wages of the worker. There have been proposals by some to do away with the minimum wage, and strip the unions of power.
         
         The overall effect of everything conservatives want will be to reduce taxes for the rich, increase the SHARE of profits fr owners and REDUCE wages for the middle class and under. But what none of the idiots are considering is that these proposals reduce the amount of money being spent in the economy.  Millions of consumers in the (previously) biggest economy in the world will have wants and needs and no money to buy anything beyond bare essentials.
         
         It's like they are prohibiting rain to solve a drought.

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            John Holdenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I like that, I might have to steal it

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            uncorrectedvisionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The broadest reach of labor unions was in the 1940s with unionized employees comprising less than 40% of all those employed.  The minimum wage dates from the late 1940s.  By that time the United States had been the world's largest economy since the first decade of the century.  How is that possible if minimum wage and unions made our prosperity possible?  In fact, the minimum wage and unions have depressed the employment market severely for decades.  The loss of unions and the elimination of the minimum wage would result in more employment and, in the long run, as the demography of the country continues to shift, a rise in wages.

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   knolyourselfposted 14 years ago

   Politicians in this country are not that bright.

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      JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      knolyourself
      POLITICIANS ARE VERY BRIGHT. They know how to get re- elected with union money, paid by union membership and suported with our tax money.
      The people must wake up, especialy the private sector union member.
      THE POLITICIANS TOOK CARE OF THE BOTTOM AND MIDDLE CLASS.
      THEY GOT A UNEMPLOYMENT CHECK AND FOOD STAMPS TOO

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That's real problem NYC almost went broke after a few years of bargaining ridiculous benefits with city employee unions who helped get them elected. Garbage haulers bargained the right to have first crack at all overtime during the last year before they retired with a pension based on their final year's earnings. This produced ridiculously high pensions. The same thing has happened in many other cities across the country.

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            JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            87Ralph Deeds
            Thank you for your comments, always enjoy hearing from you

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   Rafiniposted 14 years ago

   Damn!  I missed the 9 o'clock news - but I did notice the 11 school districts listed as CLOSED for tomorrow scrolling across the top of the screen.

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      JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Rafini
      
      WHERE AND WHEN DOES IT ALL STOP? There is no money to pay, the intelligence of all those smart people don't get it. The state has a $3.7 billion deficit. The problem again, union pensions and pay.
      The only answer will be to lay off teachers, raise class sizes, let all the dumb dumbs drop out of school earlier than the usual. Remember the union big guys don't get hurt. The unions bused in protesters who they pay for protesting. The teachers ( who supposedly always care about the kids ) called in sick (they will get sick pay ). Some brought kids to walk and protest, what an example, to give these kids. The schools will be closed tomorrow, no teachers to teach.
      
      Some of the elected law makers didn't show up to vote, a real show of them not caring about the people who elected them. They were sent to represent the people and to vote on bills,  apparently the noise of the union crowd scarred them to hide someplace. DEMOCRACY IN ACTION.
      In the end the real losers are the kids, the class sizes will be bigger and some of their teachers will be gone to the unemployment ranks.
      Wisconsin isn’t the only state with the disease, there is a lot of teachers out of work who would be happy with a job. The state needs to cater to the private sector, get businesses going so that they will hire somebody so that there will be some money going into the treasury to pay the public union worker.

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         ???
         
         I am for the bill & believe the teachers need to wake up and spend some time reading the newspapers in the morning in order to understand the deficits running rampant in this country.
         
         The Gov didn't threaten to layoff teachers, specifically, but 6000 state employees.  Perhaps 5% of the 6000 would be teachers....
         
         Honestly!!  At least 800 students from my sons high school MARCHED 2 MILES to the state capital.  I witnessed adults marching toward the capital, from many directions - NOT off a bus!  (the buses go closer to the capital than 2 miles ) 
         
         There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with parents taking their children to a Peaceable Protest!  This is HISTORY in the making!  DEMOCRACY in ACTION!  (If the DEMS would show up for work!!)
         
         While there's no way to predict whether this situation will turn into a riot, I doubt it will.  Why?  Because, even though people are angry, they aren't enraged over it.  They're just unwilling to accept the inevitable at this time.  There has to be a vote!  Or changes made to the bill.

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   Rafiniposted 14 years ago

   Okay, not much more to report tonight, but this is what I got from the news:
   
   The White House is watching carefully.
   
   The city council had an emergency meeting to approve 12 Union Contracts before the Budget Repair Bill is voted on.  (they approved all 12 - no surprise)
   
   Bus service could be affected.  The bus service could lose millions in federal funding if they don't have collective bargaining.  (Gov should have known this when writing the bill!  DEMS could propose an amendment regarding this issue)
   
   Is a similar situation happening in Ohio?  (missed that part - thought it was a different topic)

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      JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Rafini
      ‘’The city council had an emergency meeting to approve 12 Union Contracts before the Budget Repair Bill is voted on. (they approved all 12 - no surprise)’’
      
      WHERE IS THE CITY GOING TO GET THE MONEY TO PAY THE UNION CONTRACTORS???
      If the city don’t collect money from the public, who will foot the bill, where and how will the public workers get paid.
      
      Will a revolution solve the problem?  Will people marching to the capitol donate the money? The way negotiations work is that the union team meets with the employer ,city /town or state team.
      The government workers in the past were civil service employees. They received a little lower take home pay but their retirement pay was like gold.
      
      Today  ,the word Civil Service , community minded, has been discarded by unions who receive almost 2 times the pay and entitlements than the private sector who pay for their services.
      
      If it was your own money to purchase labor , would you pay more, maybe twice as much for a similar service? When we elect public servants, politicians, they have a responsibility to do what’s right for the people that elected them.
      As long as I can remember at least 60 years, the unions want more money for teaching our kids. When in some states 50% of the kids don’t graduate from high school something is drastically wrong with the system. Union work rules always is part of the problem.
      
      Teaching the kids that marching and protesting is the way to solve problems is wrong. You as a parent should recognize how important each hour in school is in the students best interest. Teaching them civil disobedience to what elected officials need to do to run the government.
      
      ‘’The White House is watching carefully.’’  Obama  has praised the way those in Egypt , the young people, have protested. America will be a different place to live if radicals are left to be in charge. Enough said , time will tell if your son will be involved in more protest as he gets older.
      If I missed school and protested my government , my dad would have kicked my ass.The world has changed.

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Huh.  Wonder where you get your information from - My son didn't march to the capital.
         
         And, on top of that, I think you can stop harrassing me now, stop addressing these ridiculous comments to me in order to push your misguided understandings down my throat. 
         
         Honestly, the answer to the entire problem is negotiation, and the teachers union / teachers have to be willing to give a little.  To compromise and give up what they can't obtain.

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            JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Rafini
            I said
            ''time will tell if your son will be involved in more protest as he gets older''
            YOU ARE CORRECT AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE ERROR.
            I am curious as to what your son got out of the whole situation.
            The news media showed shouting young people in the building. One young fellow shouted repeatedly in the reporter's face '' Fox lies ''. When asked what were the lies, he just kept chanting ''Fox lies''
            
            Biggest joke of the day. Teachers shouting '' we are doing it for the kids''

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               Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Gotta agree with you there. (biggest joke)
               
               My son wants to go back to school.  I've shared with him the information I've posted here and he's come to the same conclusion I have:  The teachers aren't concerned with teaching, their main concern is the money in their pockets.

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                  JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Rafini
                  THE PROBLEM IS ''WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING THESE STUDENTS''
                  parents need to get more invovled,kids are being taught what's bad about the country.
                  The 14 awol Senators are not a good example on how government solves problems. child's play  don't belong.
                  Your son will grow up to be the future of our great nation!
                  GOD BLESS

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   Rafiniposted 14 years ago

   Okay, heard this morning, from DEM Minority Leader Mark Miller, that the state employees would be willing to take a pay cut rather than contribute to their own retirement or pay a little more for their insurance benefits.  This DEM claims these state employees would rather lose over $4000 per year in gross pay than contribute $2900 per year for their benefits.
   
   
   Um, hello?  Do these state employees realize that even with paying the $2900 they'd still be better off than private sector employees?  I mean, seriously. At my last job I was paying $3510/yr for health insurance - and I was making LESS MONEY too!!

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      lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its the benefits that are the problem, they're unsustainable and that's why the teachers don't want to give them up! They're greedy pigs no one in the private sector union or otherwise has the benefits they do!

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         Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly!

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         lovemychrisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No actually, they said they would work with gvt on that...it's the UNION BUSTING that is the problem!!!
         
         HOWEVER, I would love to see big business agree to work on that 150 mil they just got.....
         
         Golly, do you think the Repubs will make THEM??
         
         
         
         Bwahahahahahahahaha. Yes, and I'm the Tooth Fairy.

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   lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

   "Sean Hannity makes 8 figures but thinks teachers & first responders are overpaid"

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    lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

    "Liberals protest without guns, & it's a "Riot"; Tea Party protest with guns & they're "Patriots"."

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    lady_love158posted 14 years ago

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ … ml?showall
    Poll 64% oppose unions for public employees including 42% of democrats.

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    Rafiniposted 14 years ago

    Update:
    
    GOV - Budget Repair Bill would make the Union optional for state employees, rather than mandatory, and union dues would no longer be taken out of paychecks.
    
    DEM Minority Leader Mark Miller, says state employees are willing to pay more for their insurance and contribute toward their retirement, but do not want to lose their collective bargaining rights.
    
    A State Employee at the protests says it isn't about the benefits, but the loss of collective bargaining rights.
    
    State Troopers were sent to the home of DEM Mark Miller to bring him in for a vote.  Nobody was home.
    
    Hotels in Illinois where DEMs are staying have received threats.
    
    The DEMs have a request of the REPs but haven't stated what that is.
    
    Rev. Jesse Jackson has joined protesters in the Capital Rotunda.

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       lady_love158posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Wow! That's great for the tax payers and for America! Imagine having a CHOICE to join a union rather than being FORCED to in order to keep a job?
       I think citizens of WI should drive to the hotel the dems are holed up in and demand they return to work!

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    Rafiniposted 14 years ago

    http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/ne … ercomments
    
    According to the above article, state workers health insurance premiums would increase from $1560/yr to $2496/yr while private sector workers are holding steady with their health insurance @ $3875/yr.
    
    Public workers also claim their "Pay is Lower" than the private sector. 
    
    $52,000 for 9 months of work compared to $15,600 for 12 months of work...hmmm...did these public workers graduate from high school or not??  Oh, and then, of course, there are the few who might be able to find a job at $30,000/yr if they have a Bachelors Degree.

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    Rafiniposted 14 years ago

    UPDATE:
    
    15 law enforcement agencies are keeping the peace in downtown Madison.
    
    DEMs say they will remain in Illinois (or away from vote) until REP leaders negotiate. (what??  Why not return & negotiate ON THE JOB??)
    
    DEM tearfully claims to be giving respect deserved to all citizens who voted her into office. (by running away?  seriously??)
    
    WI has $460 million in unaccounted expenses.
    
    School districts are fighting to stay open.  State Superintendent feels teachers ought to get back to educating the kids. 
    
    A temporary restraining order against the Teachers Union was denied. 
    
    Illegal Strike charges may be filed against teachers refusing to go to work.
    
    GOV Walker supporters ask News Crews: When do we get our say? Why aren't our voices being heard?
    
    Milwaukee schools closed after 600 teachers called in - in order to attend protest.
    
    State Superintendent unsure if schools will open on Monday.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    An even bigger joke of the day...
    
    The Wisconsin Governor dispairing sincerely about his deficit ridden state...

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    JON EWALLposted 14 years ago

    HUBBERS
    
    The Governor needs to advise the missing Democrat lawmakers  hidding in Illinois that the state will not pay per-diem for a  non approved expense.
    
    WHY SHOULD THE TAXPAYERS PAY when these PUBLIC SERVANTS  are having a short vacation?

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    lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

    Honest to GOD...the hypocricy is ASTOUNDING!
    
    This righty-mouthpiece Howie carr is saying...
    
    
    "These protestors are defying the elected officials"..........
    
    JUST what the Tea-P'ers did in 08, HUH?
    
    God almighty...does this idiocy never end?  El Stupido!

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    Evan G Rogersposted 14 years ago

    The only problem that I have with unions is that they use violence to prevent "scabs" from coming in to do the work that they refuse to do.
    
    If not for this one aspect of the Union, I would have to say "good job, guys! keep it up!"
    
    BUT! On the reverse of this argument: it's utterly disgusting that the government can just make it illegal to unionize. Leave it to government to simply make "negotiating" illegal.
    
    Anyway, this is all just more evidence that we need less government. Sure, X, Y, and Z will "Create more jobs", but then the government will just make those jobs suck later.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Evan...this is not true across the board...
    
    When grocery workers were striking here in California a couple years back (major strikes) there was no violence against the scabs that werw hired...
    
    Look at the legacy of the United Farm Workers....they do not use violence in any way...even though the farm owners would hire goons to beat up strikers, or use the police (who would use violence themselves)...
    
    Farm owners would even spray strikers with pesticides...
    
    The legacy of violence has been overwhelmingly on the side of business owners...
    
    The infamous strike breakers........  The thugs hired to beat the garbage out of workers who had the guts to stand up for better wages and conditions...
    
    There is a track record Evan....

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       Evan G Rogersposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       IN all honesty, I'd love to read such a track record. You got a source?

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    I mentioned the UFW...
    
    Start there....  Can you point to their track record of violence?
    
    Grocery strike was widely publicized....and there was no violence...
    
    I can point to the lack of stories about said violence to prove my point...
    
    I can definitely point to a track record of strikebreaking abuse... Later today, or perhaps tomorrow, I will add plenty of links...
    
    However, there is enough here for you to start with...
    
    What example did Cesar Chavez lead behind?  Who was his rolemodel, and what did this mean for the UFW?

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    knolyourselfposted 14 years ago

    Knew a guy who was union organizer for the San Fransisco dock workers. He was wanted by FBI and had to go into hiding. Wasn't in hiding when I knew him though. But he was old.

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    Rafiniposted 14 years ago

    UPDATE:
    
    Both sides rally on Capital Square - 60,000 attend.
    
    Law enforcement from around the state is lending assistance to keep the peace. (no major disturbances, no arrests today)
    
    DEM leader says ALL Public Employees have agreed to financial aspect only if they get to keep Collective Bargaining.  (so the next contract can give even more pay with less employee pay for benefits??)
    
    REP - The Bill is NOT negotiable.
    
    Jesse Jackson has been joined by JOE THE PLUMBER, HERMAN CAIN, and many other national personalities.
    
    Annual Winter Festival bumped off the Capital Square - activities held at Memorial Union instead.
    
    Major snowstorm in the forecast for tomorrow - snow, freezing rain, ice - it remains to be seen how the crowds will react.

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       JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Rafini
       
       You said ‘’DEM leader says ALL Public Employees have agreed to financial aspect only if they get to keep Collective Bargaining. ….’’
       Sounds like the governor isn’t taking any prisoners.
       It was reported that the contract negotiations have been going on for 15 months. Yep with a Democrat governor to booth who couldn’t get the union to agree to a contract.
       
       Rafini, I guess you missed it, a Fox News reporter got videos of doctors moving thru the crowd signing sick letters for a group of teachers, don’t know how many got them.
       Sounds like an Acorn operation similar to getting votes in the last general election.
       Honesty is the best policy, teachers need to take a class? Those teachers should be fired, what an example to show the young students. Cheating ?
       
       The Kennedy Administration pushed  for collective bargaining legislation in the public sector during his term. It’s time for our elected officials to stand up to the union demands and work for the people who pay them their salaries..
       
       Check this site  http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/0 … ector.html
       
       Terrific information on unions

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          Rafiniposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Oh!  I forgot about that!  Dr's handing out work excuses to the teachers - that really pisses me off!!  For 10 years I had to use my annual vacation time, an hour at a time, to take my kids to the doctor so that by the end of the year I had no vacation left! 
          
          Oh, no!  These teachers gotta go!!

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             JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Rafini
               I HATE TO TELL YOU THAT THE PROBLEM STARTS IN WASHINGTON.
             Power and Greed by many members of Congress who make up the rules and regulations.
             A real small little news article reported that people working in some of the Senators offices had their student loans forgiven. I believe the cost  was $ 10 or $20 million that the taxpayers had to eat. I called my Congressman and they confirmed the article, needles to say I was pi…..ed off.
             When Congress passed the Healthcare Reform Bill they also included  giving the government complete  control of the Student Loan Industry. The private sector banks lost 30,000  employees and income from financing the loans.
             THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP!
             The present Obama Administration is a large part of the problems in our economy. The government now controls 60% of the economy.

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                junkoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Jon: Big Business, Wall Street, and the Insurance Industry controls 90% of the goverment, and you know they do. The american people do need to wake up and stop listening to suit like you who back Republican goverment and attacks democratic goverment. The power and greed is supported by many members of congress, I agree, mostly Rebublicans.

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                   JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   junko
                   YOU SAID ''Big Business, Wall Street, and the Insurance Industry controls 90% of the government, . ''
                   
                   WHEN AND WHERE DID I SAY THE ABOVE??
                   For your information ,the US Government is the largest employer in all the land.  The Government is #1 big business, in addition to being the worlds biggest healthcare provider. The government is the # 1 insurer who rejects the most claims. Since President Barak Obama took office, the government has grown 20%. Government unemployment is 3%, the private sector is 9.4%.
                   Check this link
                   Notes    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/0 … ector.html
                   
                   JUNKO
                   you call me the suit, why?  Just to let you know that I worked very hard for a employer to be able to get to wearing a suit. I was brought up  with ‘’a days work for a days pay’’. Some days I made my boss money and sometimes he lost money on me. I DO KNOW THIS, if my boss made money (profit), I was sure of a job. Making a profit meant THAT THE GOVERNMENT GOT THEIR CUT  without a sweat.
                   Think about it, the government got money from me (taxes) and from my employer (taxes) isn’t that great.

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                      junkoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Jon: Yes that's great the goverment got money from you and your employer in taxes, what goverment?  You and your employer must have paid state and local taxes, because the Bush adminstration and more so the Obama adminstration lowered taxes. You and your employer don't want to pay any taxes? Are y'all against the goverment or the president?  I think your position is unamerican. There were a lot of people fooled by suits during the mid-terms but even they can see they were lied to by suits.

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                         JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         junko
                         You said ''so the Obama adminstration lowered taxes''.
                         HOW ABOUT OF ALL THOSE TAXES OBAMA LOWERED.
                         CAN YOU LIST THEM, PLEASE

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                            junkoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Jon: You chewing on this old bone 13 days old. Here a list for you Jon,#1 your most love president Bush lowered taxes on the wealthest American in the mist of two unpaid for wars. #2 the current president Obama kept those taxes lowered for suits like you and your boss who told you you were good enough to wear a suit. #3 The current president lowered taxes for the middle class when he first got into office. #4 the current president after keeping the Bush tax cuts for the rich, also gave small business taxcuts to stimulate job creation. You were crying about you and your boss paying taxes to the goverment on y'all earnings. I bet you and your boss did'nt complain about paying taxes when Bush was president. Now Obama is prestdent and you find fault with the same deal you were pleased with under a republican president. What's up with you man? You speak with a fork tongue, a lot of suits do the same. It took you two weeks to answer my post and when you do you ask me to list them please. Now you got my list not a link from some other source. I have seen you posting since you ducked my post and you've been linking your butt off,using other people list of mis and dis information. Don't take a week to answer this post, man in a suit.

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                               JON EWALLposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               junko
                               
                               What are you up tight about, you got a response, sorry it took so long.
                               You still haven’t listed all the good things that Barak Obama has done for the American people. Obama isn’t the king, Congress gives and takes from the people, that’s the way our government works. I can understand you’re believing that President BARAK ‘’ I ‘’ OBAMA gives us everything . When he speaks he will say ‘’I ‘’ did this or that.
                               
                               Why is it that Past President Bush seems to always get involved with a comment. Here’s one to think about. Since 2009 Obama has had deficits of approximately $5 trillion. The monthly deficits in the Democrat, Obama administration  for the past 3 years exceed the yearly 2007 deficit in the Bush administration.
                               
                               Oil hit $105 a barrel in the morning and $107 in the closing. The cost of oil in 2007 with Bush and a Republican controlled congress was  $54.00. In California gasoline went over $ 5 a gal more than double in 2006.
                               I don’t know where you got the idea that  I was against paying taxes. Check this one out. During the Bush Administration the treasury collected record breaking tax collections, even with a tax break for all of the taxpayers ( INCLUDING THE RICH ).
                               
                               You said ‘’also gave small business tax cuts to stimulate job creation ‘’ meaning President Obama ?
                               Please list those if you can. My friend ,come out of the cave, find the truth. Until you find the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I guess your attacks will continue.
                               Have a great day, enjoy your foolish comments.
                               
                               Word 276

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                                  junkoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  What we have here is a failure to communicate. You think my comment are foolish and I think your comments are fraudlent lies.

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                                     ShortStoryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     It's nice when people can get along despite differences of opinion.

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                               ShortStoryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               What do you have against suits? Do you hate gowns, tuxedos, and sweaters as well? Are you anti-garmentic?

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    TheSeniorposted 14 years ago

    This is not an anti-union bill - with a state deficit of 3.6 Billion dollars and apparantelly no teacher wanting to help fund their retirement, the teachers are crying that the state is not funding them anymore.
    
    What one of the things that the Governor wants to do is cut out the 'collective bargining' clause be equitable - but with the average WI teacher making over $46K - it seems that they should be able to help the state fund their own retirement an leave it to the Dem's to feel sorry for them.
    
    All the teachers should at least be suspended or docked pay and maybe evev fired or their illegal walkout/strike.
    
    Read my hub 'economics the wisconsin teachers', and lady love your right.

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    JON EWALLposted 14 years ago

    HUBBERS
    Governor Walker appeared on Fox News Sunday 2/20/11.
    a copy of my e-mail
    Dear Governor Walker
    You did a great job on Fox THIS MORNING explaining the bill
    You are going about it in a way that all federal and public entities can get a fair shake.
    Teachers getting their checks don't truly understand what they are actually making because they don't see the fringe money, they only see the end product .what they take home
    The taxpayers are beginning to see now how for years the unions and teachers were complaining about making a decent wage , a joke, really.
    Why should the state deduct from an employees check, sent all the money to the employee, give them a choice of insurance plans and let them decide and they pay the bill direct. The union dues they will need to pay direct too, why should the state do the extra work?/
    
    
    Those 13 Democrats, when they return should be recognized for not fulfilling their elected duties . The people put them in office, their first duty is to the taxpayers.
    Direct voting is what the people want, we want to know which side of a issue our elected officials are ON.
    WE WANT A VOTE, AYE OR NAY so we know how our officials vote hopefully not like Obama PRESENT
    Whoever those teachers are that let those 800 students leave classes to go to the protest, SHOULD BE FIRED besides reprimanded. They need to teach what government is all about.

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    logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago

    Check out what the government employees in Boston are making and the pensions they are getting.  Stossel did a report on it awhile back and they make no apologies about raping the taxpayer.

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       ShortStoryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No apologies to say the least! A lot further than that in Somerville.
       
       
       A corrupt, one-party state.

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    I think people here fail to realize the seriousness of what is going on here...
    
    Collective bargaining is the heart of the matter....and in a nation that is based on representation...especially being employees of such a government deserve a voice at the table..
    
    Not some over the other...(police are excluded from losing their organized voice)
    
    More Americans should be upset over why they aren't able to benefit from collective bargaining....
    
    They should be thinking to themselves about how they can live in a nation where inalienable rights as speech and protection from abuses of power,whereas an increasing share of the workforce is employed by companies that are run by corporate versions of totalitarian regimes..

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       ShortStoryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       A lot of "should"s in there. Sounds a lot like "you SHOULD agree with me and do what I say because I know better than you," to me.
       
       All this collectivist rhetoric seems to disregard the 'rights' of the individual. Socialist types will never get anywhere in the US because they seem to overlook, misunderstand, or simply reject important aspects of American history and character.

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          Friendlywordposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          People with union jobs accepted lower pay for security.  Non Union workers choose to play fast and lose with their lives and their childrens' lives. Now, that their asses are wavin in the wind and they feel like the irresponsible greedy fools they are; they need to distract themselves and find out who is really to blame for their stupid choices regarding job security...So...who is to blame here? Those low down dirty union people with their cushy union jobs and benifits they didn't work for or deserve. I say!  Let's rob them of their stupid union rights, and steal the pensions they didn't pay for or deserve. Let's get them! We'll show them! You can't go around sacrificing and planning for you families' future! Who do they think they are?

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    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    Short Story.....you have it wrong..
    
    Labor organization goes back to the earliest days of the colonies....
    
    There are those who somehow think that "unions" are new things...or that somehow the idea of workers coming together came around after Marx.....but this is completely wrong...
    
    More Americans should learn their history.....
    
    
    There is nothing wrong with "shoulds".......
    
    And, more Americans should wonder why they aren't able to collectively bargain...
    
    American should wonder why it is illegal in some states to collectively bargain....
    
    Then we can also discuss "at will" hiring/firing status that dominate even union bastions like California..
    
    Should we talk about the abuses that this tactic cause?
    
    From Nike shoes to Walmart store chains...without the workers who make the products, stock the shelves, and transport said goods, these businesses are nothing but ideas....
    
    Each part of the production, transportation, and sales process plays a vital role....its too bad more people don't see this...and turn what should be a horizontal relation between each part of this team into a vertical hierarchy of control and exploitation....

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       ShortStoryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I don't have anything wrong because I never claimed that unions were "new." You "should" read what is written, not what you would prefer to respond to.

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       logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The orginal premise of unions was acceptable.  However many of them have been corrupted and taken over by organized crime or other self serving individuals.
       When the head of the union is making over $400,000.  More than the governer of the state, far more than any of it's members, and more than most of the taxpayers in the state then something is desperately wrong.

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    JON EWALLposted 14 years ago

    Hubbers
    Ask a teacher or a public employee what they are making in pay. They will tell you their gross paycheck less the regular taxes. They have no idea what their total compensation ( cost to the employer ) is because they don’t see it or understand the total value of what they are paid.
    For example, the union controls the healthcare insurance payments and sends the money to the insurer. The insurer is owned by the unions, sounds like a conflict of interest?
    The governor said that using the states insurer, the cost would be 25/35% lower. In plain English the employees are paying too much, problem their paying with the taxpayers money. That’s similar to the union using union dues to put Democrats in office. Again the taxpayer money indirectly being used against the taxpayer. The teachers are not losing the take home pay, the savings are in the fringe benefits coming down to the cost in the market and the savings are passed down to the cities. Doesn’t that sound fair to the taxpayers?
    In the real world, the private sector has competition, that competition keeps prices lower. The unions negotiating now have no competition in the state. The people (taxpayers )foot the bill simply because the Democrats ( union bought ) favor the unions instead of the taxpayers who voted for them.
    PLEASE NOTE, the contract negotiating has been going on for 15 months with a democrat governor and democrat controlled legislature
    One, it’s time someone exposed the unions of today. The AWOL Democrats who are AWOL is a prime example to what the Democratic party is today. The DNC ,Obama’s groupies and other radical groups are organizing and funding the protesters. Democracy in action union style.
    
    IN THE BUILDING, check their id, if they are from out of state notify them that they are TRESSPASSING!

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    JON EWALLposted 14 years ago

    junko
    
    Thanks for the COMMENT

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    C.S.Alexisposted 14 years ago

    Change is the only thing we can count on other than death...and TAXES. Watching middle classed, normally respected citizens protest has actually grasped my attention. I am finding it all quite entertaining. Just proves the laws of Nature. The laws of Man are not working. It is Natural to become upset and protest when you feel the pains of being financially raped by elected Government when they are elected to represent the people.... Not just a few of the rich people.

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