Is Chivalry dead?

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   Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago

   In the immortal words of famous stand up comedian, Dave Chappelle, "Chivalry is dead.....and women killed it.  It's because of all them magazines, making you girls feel fatter and uglier.  Until those magazines make you all forget just how beautiful you really are."  I know that's a bit extreme to assume that women magazines are the cause of chivalry dying out these days in modern relationships, as i'm sure there's other factors involved here. that's why i would humbly like to ask everyone on hubpages, what are your thoughts?  is chivalry dead?  and if it is, who killed it?

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      alexandriaruthkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      women and men are considered to be equal supposedly, but the society treat them as unequal, women dont need men to be chivalrous
      chivalry is dead because women doesnt need the feel for men to do it, they can do anything now
      We dont need men to open doors for us but to treat us eqaully and lovingly, respect us and be sensitive to our needs
      
      chivalrous activity should not be synonymous to treating your women nicely or in case the women to men
      
      except of course in cases like lifting heavy objects etc.....

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         Justine76posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I would love me some chivalary!! (or courtesy..I just read that definition..)I dont need it, sure. I take care of myself just fine, but I wouldn't mind beign treated with decency, respect, and a little bit of door opening.

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            Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            and if a man does that he gets called a chauvinist.
            
            Women seem to want the best of both worlds and to dump the worst of both on men...IMHO

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               Justine76posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I suppose some women do that, I woudln't.

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               Madame Xposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Women have become so stupid
               
               
               
               You just said a mouthful.

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            alexandriaruthkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            yes chivalry is different from being treated with respect and decency, now that is what we need as human beings
            
            what I am saying is that chivalrous activity is different form the needs we like as partner, we need love, understanding, respect and dencency like you said
            
            being chivalrous is one aspect of it

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               Justine76posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               oh, sure! Its not a need. But I do wish it wasn't gone.
               Oh well, what can you do?

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      double_frickposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      i strongly believe the "feminist" movement killed chivalry.
      women wanted equality so bad, now it seems women are fully stepping into the men's role. in fact, around here the dad's are the ones who stay around for the kids, the moms slut around. the boyfriends and husbands sit up playing video games while their dear significant other is out  working bringing in the cash. sad...
      but isn't that what women wanted?
      
      i guess i got lucky finding someone with "traditional" family values. and so did he, seriously, all his friends baby's moms...left. or are cheating. and never home. as daddy struggles to take care of the baby. its a damn shame, for the kids.

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   Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago

   Yes, and it is the Equal Rights movement that killed it. How can we take care of a lesser gender, if there isn't a lesser gender?

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      Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      i don't know if i agree with you about that. to be honest, even though it is a proven fact that we are the most physically stronger of the two genders.  however, i think women are vastly superior when it comes to intellect and patience than men are.  therefore, i can't say i agree with you on that women are the weaker sex, as I would never view women like that myself.  however, i do value your opinion, so I would like to say thanks for sharing. 

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         Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         When did I ever say that there was a lesser gender or that women were that lesser gender?
         
         I said, you can't protect a lesser gender if there isn't a lesser gender...
         
         {thanks for the compliment}

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            Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            yeah, but why does there have to be a lesser gender at all for guys to be chivalrous? I mean it's still possible.

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               Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Wiki:
               Chivalry[1] is a term related to the medieval institution of knighthood. It is usually associated with ideals of knightly virtues, honor and courtly love. The word is derived from the French word "chevalerie", itself derived from "chevalier", which means knight, derived from "cheval", horse (indicating one who rides a horse). Today, the terms chivalry and chivalrous are often used to describe courteous behavior, especially that of men towards women.
               
               Redefining the meaning to be something else means we are not talking about chivalry but some new concept applied to the old name.

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         LegendaryHeroposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         You are both right and wrong about intelligence. Women's IQ's are more centered around an average, while men's are more spread out, so there are more male genius and more male idiots.
         
         http://www.mwilliams.info/images/normal-gender01.gif
         
         And I don't believe that chivalry is dead either. I just think some guys don't show it because they don't know what that women's particular reaction to it would be.

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   mikelongposted 15 years ago

   It depends on one's use of the word "chivalry"..
   
   As opposed to its popular conception regarding the nice treatment of women by men, it is important to note that this "code" of respect only applied to nobility...
   
   According to the code of chivalry, noble men could sexually do whatever they wanted to common women...rape was very chivalrous....
   
   That part of chivalry appears to still be with us..

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      Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      that's very true. I forgot about that part of chivalry. well to be honest, i was referring to the romantic side of men doing nice things for women, and not the rape and treating women like slaves/objects part.

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      habeeposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I have a copy of the chivalric code, and this isn't what mine says! Remember what happened to Sir Gawain when he raped a commoner?

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         Sab Ohposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         crabs?

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   Rafiniposted 15 years ago

   I agree with Mikel.  the ERA killed chivalry - along with everyone who grew up during that time learning that Girls can open doors for themselves because they ARE capable. 
   
   plus there are women out there who dont want their men to be chivalrous because they think that makes the men chauvenists

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   Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago

   well, i don't know if i can still agree that the equal rights movement killed chivalry to be honest.  If you ask me it's the corporate media and commercialism that killed it.  I mean think about it.  Back in 1840's when Howland invented the greeting cards for valentine's day, which allowed for people to just buy generic greeting cards to display their feelings for their lover.   To where now basically we get to a point in our society that a man could just easily buy a 1000 dollar ring, to prove he loves his woman.  Versus back before commercialism and media, guys would write their women songs, poetry and stuff like that from the heart.  Therefore, I think it's because of the commercialism that's killed off chivalry as guys don't have to give women things from the heart anymore.  It's like Kay commercials say, just buy her a diamond jewelry and that'll prove you love her more so than something  you made for her.  lol.

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      Rafiniposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      i can buy into the greeting cards being the beginning of the end to chivalry...

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   Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago

   hmmm...i guess according to the majority of you, you guys claim it's due to equal rights. i wonder if anyone else has another theory?

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      double_frickposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      during the height of the feminist movement you have men learning that women get their new-big-girl-britches-in-a-bunch when they open a door for them, now i'm just as lucky to get a woman holding the door as a man. which is fine. but yes, first women complain that men treat them too helpless, they want independence and equality. great things, who wouldn't want that. but the way it happened pushed taught men women prefer "different" treatment and slowly but surely chivalry as been all but phased out completely.
      
      so i do blame the feminist movement even though i know that was not really the intent.

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   manlypoetrymanposted 15 years ago

   Is Chivalry dead? Probably not...but it might soon be forgotten!
   
   I'm reading some of the answers here...and wondering if it truly is on its' way..."bye, bye!"

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   Greek Oneposted 15 years ago

   If you define Chivalry as a man treating a woman with respect, and the celebrating of the natural differences between the sexes, then no, i don't think it is dead (but it is perhaps missing in many relationships).
   
   If you define it incorrectly an excuse to put woman in a subservient or inferior position, or to otherwise treat them as less than equal as people, then sadly, I still don't think it is dead in that case either.
   
   I think we should treat one another as equals and not put limits on what someone can do based on their sex.. but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy our differences

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   Cagsilposted 15 years ago

   Chivalry is not dead. Not as long as I am alive. The act of chivalry is a personal preference. It's taught or handed down from generation to generation, ages to ages, and culture to culture.
   
   The choice of a person to be chivalrous is completely up to them. However, if they were not to act in this manner, then it's likely they know nothing about it.
   
   As for what it is truly? I will agree with some, it's about complete respect for your partner and those around you. It's about having harmony in one's life through honest actions.
   
   I am of the understanding, females who have "ego" of man, see chivalry as a sign of weakness in man. Their own ego is in the fact they don't see the respect being offered.
   
   Most women don't mind and would like men to be chivalrous. All women like to have things done for them, especially something that might seem meaningless, as opening a door so they can walk in first or if they are getting out of car(this is a little over-dramatic in today's society- hurry up and wait society - eliminated this function of chivalry for most men, simply because women open the door for themselves so as to cut down on time).
   
   Women love to be respected, honored and shown appreciation, regardless of how it's shown, as long as it's through love.
   
   Just my thoughts on the topic. Have fun!

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      caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes...very well said

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    Rafiniposted 15 years ago

    Chivalry is another of those interesting things.  It has basically come down to chivalry VS feminism / equal rights.
    
    There are times when I will get bent out of shape because a man I am with holds a door open for me, pulls out my chair, or offers to take my coat.  Why?  Because I can do it for myself! LOL  (and because its what I learned?)
    
    On the other hand, I have held doors open for men and women, pulled out a chair for someone (not in the same manner, however) and offered to take coats.  Why?  Because I think it's common courtesy.  If men have been doing it for women for centuries then its only right that women take a turn.

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       Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Which kinda says treating men the way women no longer want to be treated...
       
       I don't want women to be chivalrous to me. I just want equal rights with women and minorities, which as a white male I do not have.

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          Rafiniposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          yeah, kinda strange, huh?
          
          I understand what you're saying - sometimes I think we are ready to ditch the Equal Employment Opportunities, but then again, by not being a member of the minority I don't know if we truly are ready.

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    Stevennix2001posted 15 years ago

    ummm...no offense guys, as i do appreciate your input here, and i think everyone here makes a valid point about chivalry.  however, lets not stray away from this original topic to talk about racism here, as that's not what this is about.  please.

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       Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       NP sorry for highjacking the thread...

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          Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          oh no, it's nothing against you or what your saying.  it's just that I don't want this forum to turn into another one them where people start to get into pointless arguments  over stuff, and then people start to get banned for stupid reasons that's all.   besides, this forum is just a place for us all to have intellectual debates that's all.

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    caravalhophotoposted 15 years ago

    Oh yes chivlary is dead...but it is very important to me.  I do not like standing outside a vehicle in the rain waiting for my lock to be popped open from the inside.
    With the way the World is, I appreciate my man coming around the vehicle to open my door, I feel safer for him doing it.
    I have no problem opening a door myself, but it shows respect to me and makes me feel good that I am a lady to him.
    The same with him taking my coat and pulling out my chair...it really makes him look good in a public place and again it shows respect.
    My Son was raised with chivlary and his girlfriend thanks me for it...I raised a Gentleman that shows his lady respect...I am so proud.
    So it really has nothing to do with me doing it myself...to me, it shows respect, class and makes me feel good that he wants to do it for me, his momma taught him well...I'm sure he puts the toilet seat down also.

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    Colebabieposted 15 years ago

    Nope just sleeping

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    maven101posted 15 years ago

    Yes...Chivalry, as understood by Americans, is dead ... it was killed in the 60's and buried in the 70's....Here is a real example that happened to me just last week...I was coming out of a bakery here and held the door open for a woman coming in...she looked at me and sniffed " you don't have to hold that door open for me "...I looked at her and said " Ma'am, I don't hold this door open for you per se, I hold it open for myself "...she didn't respond....

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       caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       wow maven101...sorry that happened to you...I would have smiled and said thank you...

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       A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       That may be a location problem that kind of stuff is still appreciated in Texas!

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          Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          that's because us texans rock!!!

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             A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             That's a Capital T

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                Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                oh sorry.   "Texans Rock!!!" 

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                   A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   There you go!

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    lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago

    It's no where close to dead in my universe.  But hat's just me.

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    TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years ago

    No, but it's on life support and lots of people are trying to pull the plug.

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       lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       hi glass, so good to see you

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          TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Hi lyrics It's always good to see your beautiful face. I love your current avatar! *hugs*

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             lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             kisses and hugs and  more again
             
             glass read my new hub on hats you'll pee your pants
             
             well maybe not, your not wearing pants
             
             still good laugh
             
             i dont get fashion
             
             please help me understand

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                TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Hehehe...*jumping over to hat hub*

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                TheGlassSpiderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Oh lyrics...there's nothing to understand...That's not fashion, it's frivolity! LOL
                
                I just LOVE the big blue cheese hat. You couldn't even see the woman's HEAD! I mean, other ones covered people's faces...but that one just takes the...cheese, I guess.

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                   lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   whew its not just me
                   They scare me
                   can't look at hub again
                   ha
                   have 50 more
                   must do one more hub of 20 more
                   I m still scared
                   
                   glad you helped me put things in perspective

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    A Texanposted 15 years ago

    I don't really get the idea that its dying, Women in Texas still like being walked to their car having doors opened for them and chairs carefully tucked under their butts. I have never had one sneer at me or make rude comments like what happened to Maven, if I did I would probably say "I'm sorry,sir" and walk away, but thats just me.

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       Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       well put.

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          A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Steven are you in Austin?

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             Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             yep, how  about you?

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                A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Round Rock, I read your review of paranormal activity a while back, I gotta tell you the review was much better than the film!

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                   Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     thanks.  i take it you didn't like the movie, huh?

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                      A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      The end was kind of a let down, I was hoping for something else, you know some scary ass ghost, instead I got that.

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                         Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         lol.  fair enough.  oh well to each their own. lol.

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                            A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            The rest was good, had me sitting till the end!

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                               Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                               maybe you should rent out the dvd then. i heard in the dvd, they have an alternate ending scene that was so scary they edited out of the final movie shot. maybe you should try that.  i've never seen it, but i do plan on buying the dvd sometime this week.

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                                  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                  I watched it on On demand, it didn't and still doesn't give you choices for an alternate ending. Maybe its just the DVD, I will check that out, thanks!

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       caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I'm lovin you Texas men...

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       lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I am one of the obvious few that don't want it to die. :

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          A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          You are a real Woman!

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          caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I'm with you lyrics...
          
          I have sat in a car and the guy did not realize until he got to the buildings door...I got a sorry from him, but when we were leaving he ran to the car, brought it up to the curb and popped the lock, rather than getting out and opening my door for me...I never went out with him again...chivlary is very important and I very much appreciate it.

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    lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago

    
    
    just a thought.

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       Rayalternatelyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       form an orderly queue now!

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       caravalhophotoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       love it

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          Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          That was funny!   I wouldn't go as far as to say "I Love It!", but it was funny.

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    LRobbinsposted 15 years ago

    Good question.  I think it's dying, but not dead.  I think we need to revive it.

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    Rayalternatelyposted 15 years ago

    chivalry isn't dead or sexiest or whatever, it's just being courteous to one another. I'll open the door for anyone, let you go first, stand up to let an old lady sit on the bus. It's just good manners, that's all. Remember them?

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       A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Thats absolutely right!

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       Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Very few people remember the manners they were taught, as anyone under the age 21 presently.
       
       
       
       Edit: In some cases, some children grown to adults and never learned manners.

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       lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I Love You

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    Cagsilposted 15 years ago

    Okay, it's getting close to dying, but isn't dead yet.

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    Being a feminist and expecting chivalry is sorta hypocritical, doncha think? This does not address anybody in particular, just a blanket rhetorical question

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       A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       What the hell is a feminist exactly? My Mother worked outside the home as a nurse long before the 60's crowd decided it was a conspiracy to keep women down, I consider her a feminist! And you better open the door or she'll stick a boot up your ass!
       
       
       (Disclaimer, A Texans mother does not wear boots)but you get the idea!

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    lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago

    I am no feminist whatever that means but chivalry reminds me of all that make a man a gentleman and gem.  I will never let it die in my world. never.  And it will always be naturally shared both ways.

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       K Partinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       

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       Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       

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    tony0724posted 15 years ago

    feminism killed chivalry.

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       Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Not at all. I think anyways.
       
       It is important to be respectful and courteous. Opening doors, carrying the umbrella, offering to pay (not always paying, but offering), just overall being kind and having good manners. I particularly wouldn't like a guy ordering for me. But thats just me.
       
       A definition that I found to be accurate:
       "Chivalry is only a name for that general spirit or state of mind which disposes men to heroic actions, and keeps them conversant with all that is beautiful and sublime in the intellectual and moral world."

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    waynetposted 15 years ago

    I don't know, I never knew em!

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    habeeposted 15 years ago

    Young men these days are confused. Numerous high school students talked to me about chivalry when we were studying the chivalric code in Brit lit. They really don't know what's expected of them. Some have told me that when they've held doors open for women, they received snide remarks. Poor guys!
    
    I am happy to say, however, that chivalry is alive and well in the Deep South, especially among mature men.

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    paul_gibsonsposted 15 years ago

    why would it be dead? It was never that common anyway... anyway I haven't given up; instead I have extended it.  Why treat only women with kindness and respect... I'll open a door for anyone who is walking close behind me, man or woman. And it always amuses me how men, in contrast to women these days who kind of grudgingly acknowledge if at all (unless I say "go on, I've had enough of this "age before beauty"), are generally somewhat suprised and bother to smile and say thanks
    
    no, my beef is wearing a hat indoors, baseball cap wrong way round or anything else.... not in my house, much to the annoyance of my kids lol..

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    paul_gibsonsposted 15 years ago

    oh, I forgot... and those moronic stickers on hotel hair dryers saying: "do not use under the shower" Chivalry is alive and well, it's just common sense that died...

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    Quilligrapherposted 15 years ago

    Hi Steven!  I liked your opening questions, “is chivalry dead? And if it is, who killed it?” I don’t pretend to be an expert on this, or any, subject but that doesn’t stop me from having an opinion.
    
    When you refer to chivalry in society today in the USA, I think of social acts of courtesy extended by a gentleman to a lady in his company.  The same acts between two gentlemen are equally appropriate. They are simply called politeness.
    
    Those who suggest that such displays of good manners imply that the recipient is incapable or inferior, just don’t see it for what it is: a gesture of respect.
    
    Is it Dead?  I think not. But, like bell bottoms and tie-dyed shirts, it is increasing more difficult to find. I place responsibility for this, not with feminist or chauvinists so such, but with parents.  Gentlemen are not born with good manners, they acquire them from parents be they real or surrogate.  And, I might add, a lady who would discourage such behavior from a gentleman in her company doesn’t appreciate good manners when she sees them because she lacks them herself.

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       Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       that's a very good point.

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    George Greene Jr.posted 15 years ago

    To this day , I still open doors for any lady (or gentleman).! I respect my elders! I help the disabled to get across the street!
    Chivalry will never die as long as we teach our children to have respect!

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       Quilligrapherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I think the best way to do that would be to open doors for children as well.
       Q.

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    Flightkeeperposted 15 years ago

    What a great topic steven! Very different.
    
    I think Chivalry is observed by a select few and I equate it to good manners.  I for one don't blame the women's lib movement.  You have people who grew up without manners and don't recognize it. I don't think I should stop being courteous just because someone else is being an ass. Of course, that doesn't apply in hubpage forums

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       Stevennix2001posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       thanks flightkeeper, i'm glad you liked the topic.    plus, you make a lot good points about the matter.

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