My husband and I have been together for 14 years, married for 10. My biggest problem with him is porn. He sneaks onto the computer when I am out or asleep to surf the sleaze. He has naked women on his phone, friends email it or he is online there (both really) We have gotten into numerous fights about this over the years (it is one of the few things we really fight about) but things never change. I have told him it makes me feel inferior since he obviously needs outside sources for stimulation. I have also told him that I think it is really disrespectful since he knows my feelings on it. Now, I am not an ugly woman, guys hit on me all the time, so maybe it is just that I am not enough for him. I am really thinking of asking for a separation, but I am scared. This issue didn't need to get this far. I think about it all the time now. "What is he doing right now, is he surfing porn?" etc etc. I have tried to get him to consider counseling, but in the typical male way, it is not an option. What would you do? How do I handle this? Am I being unreasonable?
We do have a few other minor problems, but for the most part we are good. Typical marital crud. How on earth do we get by this one MAIN problem?
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Mommy2threegoofs Married to one. Get a life, can't believe experienced hubbers are answering this s**t
The problem began ... when you lived-in with him for four years ... check out what led him to propose getting married ... or you getting married ... there must have been some compatibilities ... thats the you, he is looking for ... Males, by nature, are curious ... fickle, in sex matters ...
Tell him ... Women, you ... and all the others on earth ... have the same equipment ... nones got it in twos or threes ... males and females ... why waste time looking for what you already have.
If he's into kinky stuff ... oblige ... do not make him feel like he is doing aerobics or some pelvic exercises ...
So is your husband a Congressman from New York?
The only thing you can do for sure is change yourself. You said that "he knows your feelings on this." Which is great, but do you know his feelings? Clearly your feelings and his are not on the same page, and so you are now frustrated and considering separation.
In reading what you wrote, it seems what you are saying here is that you think he needs to give preference to your feelings on this issue regardless of whatever his feelings are--or you are leaving. That's a really easy position to take when it's something like porn, because everyone will, at least publically, nod and agree with you that it's "bad" because of how dirty sex is, the whole female objectification thing, etc. However, if you really want to fix things, I suggest you figure out what's really going on, and I bet it's really, really simple: he's horny and, after 12 years, things are a little tame, maybe a little infrequent, a little repetitive.
Guys are so easy to figure out. If you want to, anyway.
I'd take a long, hard look at how your sex life is. Guys are ravenous sexual creatures, particularly at certain points in life, and they are selfish too, which makes porn an easy outlet because it's, well, easy. Maybe you could "change it up" a bit. Push yourself to places you haven't gone to yet. Maybe that means doing things you aren't comfortable with, being the "object" sometimes. Heck, if you're doing it right, it should be fun for you both.
At least talk to him about it. And make sure he knows he is safe to be honest with you. (And yes, I know it's a two way street, and he has to make you feel safe to be that person, feel cared for to fire your lust, etc. and all of that. But someone has to start this dialogue, and you appear to be the one struggling most. So, fix your half of the problem, and see if it doesn't lead to him fixing his half. Someone has to "go first.")
Good luck. Get councelling if you can.
See, I don't understand that. Why does it always have to be about fulfilling their needs? We have needs. Our sex life is decent, couple times a month kind of thing. And there really isn't anything that we haven't done that involves 2 people. What gets me is we can have sex, then the next day...oh, look who's been surfing again. Admittedly, I knew he did this kind of thing when we first got together, even talked to his mom about it. He has been doing it since he was old enough to get his hands on a mag. I still feel that this is maybe an addiction for him, but I just can't tolerate the stress of his addiction anymore. Counseling? I said something to him about that before, and his reaction was along the lines of "no way in hell"
As long as your objective in counseling is to get him to stop doing what he wants while you get what you want I would have to agree with him that it is valueless. On the other hand, going to counseling yourself might teach you to understand HIS needs, HIS wants and HIS desires.
While Shadesbreath has some good points, I would also point out that you may very well be entirely on the wrong track here.
"Porn" has many definitions; about as many as there people, in fact. It sounds like porn to you is any photo of a naked woman. It is dirty, disgusting, despicable, degrading and sleazy in the extreme. It is obviously caused by a sick need for stimulation and is demeaning to you.
Your husband, however, may find photos of naked women beautiful, artistic and uplifting to look at. I couldn't say, of course, but point out the the ancient Greek statues of naked women are considered some of the best art in the world. As are some of the paintings of semi-nude women from the renaissance period. There are more than a few men out there with a 30 year collection of Playboy and I doubt that they have collected them because they are disgusting and sleazy.
I seriously doubt that his viewing habits are somehow because you aren't "enough woman for him" either. There are other outlets for that that actually affect the problem, such as affairs and/or prostitution. Looking at pictures is not likely to solve much.
Successful marriages are not created by demanding that one spouse change to fit the desires of the other. You married this man because you loved him and have (based on the limited information in your post) spent 10 years demanding that he then stop particular actions that he enjoys but that you prohibit because you don't like them for yourself. Were you more understanding of why men enjoy porn you might be far more accepting of your husband; it could even be that you might not even care anymore.
Were my wife threaten to leave me because I did X before we got married and still did X 10 years later my reply would probably be "Goodbye". I am not a child to mold into her way of thinking; I am an adult capable of making my own decisions. I may, if X is not extremely important to me and it is to her, try to change my habit out of love for her, but in no way will I be forced into it with threats.
It's not "always about fulfilling their needs." But someone has to start, and since you can't change him, you can change yourself and maybe he will respond. That was my point.
I understand you are angry and frustrated. And if you think porn is bad and he doesn't, you're never going to convince him that it's bad. That makes for a very frustrating situation for you both.
Look, you said you are intimate a couple times a month. Like LuisEGonzalez said, that's not enough unless you guys are in your 70s or something. But frequency isn't the whole problem. The problem is more likely that you have been married for 12 years, maybe you have kids, you have routines, everything is familiar, you both have been caught up by jobs or interests or children's activities and things slowly, imperceptibly got stale. You drift apart, one feels slighted by the other a little, pulls back a little more, in a cycle that leads to where you are now. It's a marital story that is so old you need a tornado to blow the dust off of it.
So, to fix it, you have to talk it out. You have to change things. You have to make it interesting. That's hard, because you are in that "why do I have to do what he wants" mode that you responded to me with. He is in that "No way" to counceling place that you said he is in. Nobody is interested in giving right now.
So, someone has to.
Are you going to do it, or are you going to be stubborn and pissed off and watch your marriage burn to the ground?
At least if you try, if you do everything you can to change yourself, then, if it doesn't work out, you won't have to look back and put on that snarling ex-wife act to justify the marriage falling apart. You can look back with sympathy, knowing that you tried and it was just too far gone, but proud of yourself for having done the right thing, one more time first.
On the other hand, if you're just here looking for someone to agree with you and say, "He's a jerk face. F-him. Leave." Well, you can find that sort of simple, empty support, which is just fuel to help you do what you may have already decided you want to do and just want to find opinions that let you out of putting in the emotional toil needed to get your marriage out of this deep rut.
This is wrong on so many levels. Few people think that sex is dirty or bad in these more enlightened days, and then suggesting that this woman should submit to the weird sh!t this guy is learning online is a way out of the situation is horrific !!
Pornography is a type of drug for weak people and it plays on all the worst aspects of the psche or self, it carries visual gratification further than is physically possible for most people and is a desease in society.
My advice to the OP:
If this guy loves jerking off in front of a screen more than he loves you then quit and find a real man while you still have your respect and have not been dragged down to some weirdo movie producers level in regard to your sexual habits.
This is wrong on so many levels, and shows a grotesque over-simplification of human psychology that has a clear bias towards the female perspective as defined (dictated) by daytime television and the pop-psychology sold on grocery store news stands. Which is cool if the OP just wants to hear an easy answer that perfectly suits the instant-gratification-based pseudo-psychology born of the 60s and re-articulated by ridiculous experts paraded for profit by media outlets that sell that sort of thing like crack dealers do to anyone wanting a quick answer for happiness in a one-size-fits-all McDiagnosis.
Maybe he is fantasizing, and enjoys the visual stimulation. So long as it stays visual, there is really no great harm done. From a man's perspective and in no way, manner or fashion do I mean to be disrespectful, intimacy twice per month is hardly sufficient for most men or women. Perhaps changing your intimate routine will increase both of your "desires." Many men are in relationships with very attractive ladies, but still enjoy visual stimulation, and most of the time it just stays at just that "visual"
If you knew about the porn before you 'got together' then you really have nothing to complain about, because if it had been that big of a problem in the first place then you would have dealt with it then rather than waiting until now.
I'm guessing there's some other type of stresser in your life right now that is bringing the porn issue front and center. Even if your significant other doesn't want to go to counseling, you should go. To determine how big of a problem the porn really is and why its a problem to begin with. Then and only then will you be in a position to decide what to do about it.
Other than that, I agree with Shadesbreath and Wilderness.
There are many things to consider about your situation. For instance, what type of porn is he viewing? There are unacceptable types which should be regarded as a red flag and never ever acceptable, such as; child porn, snuff films and ones in which people are tortured. If it's the usual naked pictures of woman in seductive or suggestive poses, then it is probably harmless, Although that too depends on how much time he spends viewing them. An addiction becomes a problem when it takes up the majority of your life. If he is withdrawing from activities that he used to enjoy or spending less and less time with family and friends, if he prefers to view his porn instead of engaging in real life intimacy with you,- then it should be a major concern for you. Most women I know (myself included)sometimes feel insecure about themselves and when the men in our lives engage in 'adult' fantasies it only compounds these issues. On occasion, my husband has gone with male friends to strip clubs. I always hated this and would become a raving lunatic about it. But then I realized, if that is what he really wanted, he would have left me a long time ago and he would be with one of them! It's funny too how all his friends agree that while they enjoy going to those places, they would not want to be in a relationship with those types of girls. Without going into graphic detail let me just say that, as opposed as I was to that 'dirty, disgusting smut' I have learned to engage and surprisingly enjoy the occasional 'dirty play' with my husband. You see, men are visual and women are emotional. My husband fulfills my emotional side every day so the least I can do is try to fulfill his visual side. It's not easy to do, especially if you don't feel that attractive, but my man has managed to make me feel beautiful. We enjoy each other about 4-5 times A WEEK!!
I guess my advice to you is try to focus on changing yourself first, see it as a challenge to draw him into a real life fantasy and away from the delusional, unfulfilling world of porn. If it doesn't work, DO NOT take it as a personal rejection but rather for what it is--a mental disorder.
Good Luck Dear
Everyone, I just don't know. I guess I should give more details. First of all, no, not just naked pics. His preferred things seem to be "amatuer" sites. I am sure you all know what they are. They involve young, firm girls. I am a mother 20 3 (hence the name) and nearing 40 so young and firm I am not. I had to borrow his phone the day of my post, and gee...guess what is on there. These get me so upset that I literally shake. The consistency of it really makes me feel like I am just not enough for him. Now, yes, there are conflicts in schedules. I work nights, he works days. But a little more truth, and I am not proud of it, is that while he is my best friend in almost everything else, he does lie to me about money (which leads me to wonder constantly what else he is lying about) It is VERY hard to trust someone when they lie to you. You all know that! And honestly I no longer really find him sexually attractive. (God I hope he NEVER reads this, that would really hurt and anger him!) So you see, there are more underlying issues, as you would expect. I guess that is enough info for now. Just one more thing. As a person who was adopted as a toddler, trust has never been something to come easy to me and this behavior that I have described makes it 10x worse to try to trust him.
mommy2three, I am so sorry to hear what you're going through. Your husbands behavior is completely unacceptable, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I read through this thread and am really feeling for you.
One thing you must tell yourself is that you are doing nothing wrong. There is nothing you could do that should give him the excuse to spend his spare time perving over naked women. It shouldn't matter if you looked like King Kong, he would be out of order behaving like this.
Of course you don't find him attractive any more. You have lost respect for him, as anyone would.
If you do feel afraid of the consequences of your laying down the law, then consider the influence your husband is having on your boys. He's got into a bad habit which needs sorting out for the sake of all of you.
If he behaves like a child, you must treat him like one. Delete his links where you can. Tell him, no, that's naughty. Tell him it will make him blind. Tell his friends to grow up and stop sending him those pictures. If he were an alcoholic you would have to be pretty firm. This is no different.
Well Mommy that's a horse of a different color. If you don't trust him and are no longer attracted to him, then what's the problem?? You need to leave, it sounds like there is nothing worth saving except yourself and your kids.
You know, this post does bring the issue into sharper relief. I think maybe the problem is bigger than the porn, and not completely on his end. You admit to trust issues. If you didn't have the trust issues, would the porn be an issue at all? In truth, probably not. But you say that you don't trust him because he lies about money, you're not sexually attracted to him anymore, and that you have fundamental trust issues to begin with because of your adoption.
So, be honest with yourself. Is the porn really the problem? Or, is it your excuse to run from a relationship in which you yourself are struggling to trust?
Just a thought.
Also, whether you're 20, 40, or 60, you can have a healthy and active sex life. Contrary to popular belief, women often become MORE attractive to their husbands as they get older. Maybe that's it. And, whether you like it or not, a man's gotta deal with a boner, flat out. So, if you don't join him in enjoying sexual activity (you've admitted to sex twice a month and that you aren't sexually attracted to him), he's going to enjoy it on his own.
Just a personal opinion, but I'd think it isn't so much a matter of whether he views porn when he's not with you, as maybe what percentage of his time away from you is spent on it (but also, as someone else said) whether it's "basic porn" or the sick stuff.
Guys look at porn. That's normal. You said it's when you're not around that he looks at it, so it's not like he's leaving time with you to go be with his computer. There's a point where some married people (both men and women) think the other doesn't/shouldn't have a right to his own personal "endeavors" (whether that's having a social life, playing basketball, or viewing porn). SO, on the one hand, your commenting on wondering what he's doing when he's not with you kind of makes a person wonder if you're at least a little bit someone who thinks what he does in his "side time" is something you approve of. (Not saying you are, and I know you're concerned about possible situation; so you'd naturally have the root of the problem on mind.)
There are marriages that get in trouble because someone has an Internet addiction (that isn't even about porn or online socializing). So, I think one point might be whether he's someone who shows signs of having an Internet addiction (separate from what it is he finds entertaining on the Internet). I'm just wondering if there's a chance that that's the real "issue" with him - not necessarily the porn. Anyway, I think those are the issues: whether it's sick porn (in which case, I'd have to leave someone), whether he leaves time with you to go view it, how much time the two of you spend together, and what percentage of his time away from you he's spending only on viewing porn. (You may not have a way to know that last one, which, I know, is probably the thing that makes you wonder when he's not with you).
Oddly (maybe), of all the things you put in your thread, the thing that I found would bother me most about someone is the thing about his keeping naked women in his phone. I don't even see it as a big deal that his friends send it (guys are guys, and if he's out with his friends guess what they'll be talking about liking). It's that he keeps it in his phone. I don't know... I'm know I'm a woman and will see things differently than a guy might, but the phone thing makes me think he's a little so much "attached" to the porn/naked-women thing that he can't/won't even have a basic thing like a phone without it. Maybe it's not that he's "so attached" to "x-rated" pictures as he is a little too attached to the need to make his phone so "personal" he's not willing to leave the x-rated stuff off it. (Maybe it makes a difference how old he is. Teens do that kind of stuff. Personally, I don't see it as something someone mature needs to do. Maybe that's just me.)
If I were in your situation I think I'd start by seeing a counselor, just by myself, to try to get a reading on whether I was "making a mountain out of a molehill" or whether there were signs for "legitimate" concern. A counselor would have a pretty good idea of what "most guys do" and the kinds of issues that arise between couples. You could tell the person everything that's been going on, and s/he would either be able to help you put things in perspective (rather than let it destroy your marriage), or else help you sort out whether, maybe, a separation would not be over-reacting.
My thinking (after being in a marriage in which the other person wouldn't even have considered seeing a marriage counselor) is that problems that are serious enough for someone to think about separating aren't likely to clear up on their own. The unhappy person needs some kind of input/support/objective opinion from someone capable of offering some expertise and opinion. I just think, before even think about separating, it would be worth talking to someone who could give you a reading about whether it's you who might need to change your expectations of your husband, whether there are things that are wrong, or even whether none of it matters if you're unhappy enough to think about separating. Right now, the options are pretty limited: He's not going to change. You aren't going to like his viewing porn. He's not willing to go to a marriage counselor. All that's kind of left is your talking to someone on your own, and about how you're feeling about the whole situation (and the possible situation), and trying to get some kind of input/perspective before you decide what to do or not do next.
I'm not saying "You need counseling because you don't like your husband's porn-viewing." I'm saying, "Seeing someone who could offer you support and input on a situation you're not happy with in your marriage would be better than hoping the problem resolves itself, wondering whether your husband's activities are beyond what's normal for guys, or separating over something that, maybe, shouldn't be reason for it. Besides, if you did decide to separate it wouldn't be such a bad thing to have someone to talk to during and immediately after the process.
Hubby likes eye candy. You shouldn't have to change. Did he do this before marriage? It may be that he doesn't want to bother you with his sex drive, or it can be in the nature of an addiction. Counseling might help, if you can get him to agree.
well, we just had a text conversation about it because I wanted to avoid the emotional drama that is bound to be put into play. Can u believe this? He said (basically) that if we had sex more he wouldn't look at the stuff. And that he gets horny watching me change for work etc and that is when he looks at the porn when I am gone. Are you men really so ruled by your danglers? Can you not control this? I see him get changed for work, or I get turned on and I don't go out and find a substitute because we can't have sex at that time! This si so stupid! What is wrong with men? Are all of you all really so ruled by this that you would risk relationships repeatedly?
Tell him it's the other way around. He stops watching porn, he gets more of you. Tell it like Aretha,
'If you want a do-right, all-day woman. You've got to be a do-right, all-night man.'
Not sure avoiding the "emotional drama" and, instead, having this kind of conversation through texting exactly engenders, or encourages, emotional intimacy (but maybe that's "just me" ).
all excuses mom2, all excuses. Its an addiction, and he refuses to reconise it. Seek some pro help on this one; please for your own psyche and check book for paying for all that porn time, TV and on net.
if nothing else see out some pro counsel.. He has to want to stop, and I suspect he was this way before the marrage. he can not control it.
best wishes to you
So, here is an update. I think it was actually the porn that was making him a "unattractive". Over the last couple days we have had more sex than in the last month. He assures me he won't look at porn if we can do that more. I still feel the urge to check his phone history, but I am trying really hard not to. After all this he is actually more attractive because of the fun....I don't know, maybe I am just demented! lol!
I am on the other end of the spectrum, my husband never looks at porn or me for that matter. Sex never happens and he doesn't want it. It has been months and months. I know he is not having and affair since I am with him all the time. He just says he doesn't want it. Is not interested.
So while I kinda understand where you are coming from, I look at it like this. As least he wants you, likes having sex with you and his only complaint is he wants more of it. Well, believe me you would feel ten times worse if he didn't wany you at all and no matter what you did, he still had no interest in sex.
I understand but as long as he isn't cheating at least it means he has a healthy libido and wants you.
Hope things keep getting better.
again...adiction. He appears strait, gets you to perform, gets his belly full and sneaks it back in. An addicts trick. Please seek pro help on this.
This could be and addiction but you gotta admit at least he isn't going out and getting it somewhere else. Men look at porn at least most of them do.
How can you tell when its addiction and when its just a healthy curiousity and need for sex.
I do understand that men look at porn. We all do. OCCASIONALLY! Hell, I look at it sometimes and as a female I am not ashamed to say that sometimes I take care of my needs myself. BUT again, the key word is ocasionally! I DO think part of the problem is mine...I obsess over it. I KNOW I need to see a counselor, but I also truly believe he does too. If only we had insurance and finances allowed it I would go. I know that he wouldn't though. As I type, I am sitting here wondering if I could sneak his phone out of his pants and check to see if he really didn't look at porn today after our sexapaloosa of the last couple days. I guess maybe I am a control freak. Looking at it, I really am. In all aspects of life. But only because I feel out of control so often. So yes, the porn REALLY bothers me, for him, but I feel it is okay for me to look....not healthy, I know. Also, HE feels it is okay for me to look! WHAT??!!! I also maybe overreact when he DOESN'T get jealous when men hit on me, but I get fiercely jealous if the situation is reversed. I know a lot of you are going to come back and say this is my problem and I need to deal with it, but I think some of his actions certainly make it his as well.
Another post that throws things into sharper relief.
You have issues of your own it seems that need to be addressed before you should make the assumption that the only problem is your husband's attraction to porn. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It is what it is. I am saying, though, that you're a hypocrite if you watch porn while howling about the fact that he does so. And to be surprised that a he is okay with you doing so shows a lack of understanding of the male brain/body, imo. Men are sexually motivated creatures. That doesn't, contrary to popular belief, make them evil. Sounds like you might be sexually motivated on the rare occasion as well. Why not SHARE that with him, rather than cursing him for it?
Also, if he's turning down counseling, as you say he is, maybe it's because of the fact that you can't afford it and are uninsured. It may not be that he just doesn't want to do it.
If counseling sounds so absolutely necessary to you, then go. Let him follow if he's going to, but in the meantime, figure our what your issue really is.
Personally, I think you are terrified that he's not attracted to YOU, and that it's because you're aging. I would go out a limb to say that's not the case at ALL, but you really need to be convinced of your own beauty and attractiveness to HIM before his going to counseling will convince you of anything.
I don't think "it's your problem", but I think he and/or or the marriage are your problem. (Otherwise you wouldn't have posted the "issues" here.) Because those are the problems that are the ones you're dealing with, I think that's why, if he won't see someone with you, as a couple; then you could use someone who might have enough of a professional and objective input to help you know how you want to deal with what's going on, and what steps, if any, you may want to take next (either within the marriage or "alongside" it). Counselors aren't just for people who ARE the problem, or for people who HAVE a problem. They can also be for people dealing with someone else who is their problem.
I'm getting the impression that its less about what hes doing than it is about your low self esteem... I saw it most when you said the bit about men being ruled by their danglies. I love my husband more than anything in this world but I laugh at him when he stares up other women (I don't know if he surfs porn and honestly I really dont care... but it does bring up the question how do YOU know what your husband does on the computer?)
In short, my general thought process is if he wants to go after someone younger and firmer so be it. I'd be sad to see him go, but I'm also sure that I could also find someone younger and firmer if I really needed to.
I've got too much to do in my life to worry about what my husband is looking at in his spare time.
I think all the theorising over what 'else' is going on is kite flying. The man is a addicted to pronography and pulling his weiner trapped somewhere in his adolescence. Tell him to grow up - it is not the OP who is old and flabby, it is her man - and he can look at naked 16 year olds all day but he is never going to get his hands on one or stop fantasising unless he grows up. Very little chance of any changing him I would say.
I don't think that's quite fair for two reasons. First, the OP has admitted in this thread a number of issues of her own, dealing with the need to control everything around, her inability to trust, and her own body image. Second, the OP speaks for her husband. Her husband does not speak for himself. We are really in no position to judge HIM because we don't know his side of the story. Think jumping on him as an evil bastard is a little unfair. Maybe that's why all of us haven't done that.
I have not suggested he is an evil bastard in any way - he is just a w@nker addicted to pron.
Unless the OP is lying in which case she has problems. The 'rest' of the responses on this thread are working in total compliance with male superiority and I seem to be the only MAN pointing out the obvious. Man is not superior in any way to woman and pornography is a debased attack on any form of society; that man generally seems to be addicted to j@acking off over media images instead of making love to his wife is more a comment on society than an issue with this couple.
The female attack on this woman is horrendous, it is not womans place to be dominated by any man - and lie under him while he moves in concert with some abused teenager in his mind.
I'm actually surprised that you find what I've said to be an "attack" on this poor woman. It does go to show that a person's perception of what she says may be quite different from that of those who hear it.
And, a pedophile is an evil bastard, so if you truly believe that this man wants to have sex with underaged girls because of his "addiction" to pornography, my perception is that you have, in fact, painted him as an evil bastard.
Of course, I may be wrong. That has been known to happen.
Yes - you are completely wrong.
I said quite clearly "he can look at naked 16 year olds all day but he is never going to get his hands on one or stop fantasising unless he grows up."
Nothing about paedophiles at all.
And yes you are collectively attacking this woman from various angles around "lay back and pretend it is not happening". The man is addicted to porn - not hard to work out without any speculation about 'her' problems.
I in no way indicated nor suggested that she should lay back and pretend that it isn't happening. You've completely misunderstood everything I've said.
And if someone is fantasizing about underaged girls, they are exhibiting signs of pedophilia. So, whether you mentioned it or not, it is certainly implied and/or inferred.
My point is that we are all incapable of changing ANOTHER person's desires or behaviors, but we are capable of examining and changing our own. Perhaps there are issues that this poor woman is avoiding that, if dealt with, would make this a question she didn't need to ask on an internet forum. She might be able to make the decision without the input of virtual strangers.
So, in actuality, we're all wrong. She must buck up and deal with this issue on her own without anyone attacking her. Frankly, I feel that those of you who are pushing her to "just leave" are actually doing her more harm than good. She's simply going to move on into another relationship with the same deep set issues of her own because she's been justified by individuals who don't know anything about her except for what she chooses to reveal, and certainly know nothing about her husband.
I'm sorry that we disagree, but we certainly are both entitled to our opinions, which is what she originally asked for, I believe.
Ok - peace but showing a naked 16 years old is perfectly legal and above the age that is concerned with paedophilia!!, it is the porn industry that is the real villain in this piece in its general debasement of human beings and its abuse of children and other victims in the making of it.
With your statement about the porn industry, I could not agree more. My personal opinion is that a 16 year old girl is a child, but I recognize that is an issue up for debate. In some instances regarding porn, I believe the true sickness lies inside of those who make it almost more so than in those who watch/purchase it. It's a sign of how depraved our society has actually become.
I'm glad we've agreed to be at peace.
recommend1, I am totally with you and I've said as much.
You're absolutely right: it's crazy anyone suggesting that she give him more sex so he doesn't have to play with himself to images of desperate girls debasing themselves. What kind of cave-man attitude is that? People here have suggested, "well maybe you should feel lucky he's not cheating on you". He IS cheating on you sister!! Porn has no place in a respectful marriage.
You obviously feel like you have a good man who loves you. He isn't cheating on you or harming you in anyway. Nothing about his habits have changed since you first met the man. I assume that he is a good provider and a good father. The only problem here seems to de that you weren't as able to change the man asmuch as you thought you could. Each person person out there has a different sex drive, and different needs. Why would you consider throwing away 14 years of your life, and destroying the lives of your children over this. You knew about it prior to marriage and were either convinced you could change him or ok with it then. I agree with some on here that you are the one who needs to seek some counseling. Perhaps if you get a better understanding of yourself, you may be in a position to understand him and figure out a compromise. Bottom line is you have a good man who enjoys masterbation. Is that reason enough to throw 14 years of your life and his life away? There are thousands of women who would kill to be in your shoes. They would love to have a man that didn't put them at risk of STDs. They would love to have a man who was home all the time. They would love to have a pain free life.
The only way you will get past this is to try and understand what his needs are and make up your mind if you would really prefer he find another outlet that just might be 15 to 20 years younger. Which would do you more mentsl hsrm. Your husband dumping you or what he is doing now? Addicted to porn sure is terrible when you realize it could be alcohol, or a variety of drugs. It could be protitutes he is addicted to. Instead he chooses to remain faithful to you and still find the relief he feels he needs. Is that really so bad?
I think you should sit down and have a very frank talk with your husband about what is really important to him. Porn or family, or both. Then when you have figured that out, go see a counsler to help you figure out how the two of you can meet each other's needs.
My ex-husband had an internet porn addiction. He also spent hours online in chat rooms flirting with other women. Eventually one of my "friends" told me he was on a dating site where married people discreetly hookup with each other. The porn was never the issue and I would have gladly watched with him and participated in whatever turned him on. The issue was that he excluded me. He did this without me, behind my back, and then lied about it. He roleplayed the part of the misunderstood husband married to the bitch-wife to gain sympathy from woman who he then manipulated into peforming sex acts for him on their webcams. I would gladly have roleplayed along with this fantasy, but again I was shut-out. If a man would rather have fantasy sex by himself, rather than real sex with his wife, what's the point of being married?
I understand there is more to a marriage than connecting in the bedroom, but to me, that's the most important part. You want a husband who is your lover and makes you love yourself and feel special, more important, and more beautiful to him than other women, not one who makes you hate yourself because you can't ever fulfill his erotic needs.
Talk to your husband about his addiction, and then go see a counsler if you really want to stay in this marriage. We stay with people because they make us feel good about ourselves, not bad.
My two cents:
wilderness and shadesbreath made alot of sense to me, but as further revealed you said you are a "control freak" and etc. I say in al anan people go because they are dealing with alcoholics and you could apply that logic to your situation, but you see in al anon we accept we can be sicker than the alcoholic in some ways by our behavior, so yes, you should def seek counseling or maybe al anon since it's free and it's like sex is an addiction if you know what I mean. A 12 step program like this could really help.
Recommend1, what is this hang up you have with 16 year olds? No where did the OP suggest that he was watching child pornography, now did she. This is the 3rd time you have brought up 16 year olds in conjunction with porn. Have you ever watched a porn movie? Do you know they have porn that is produced for the females who don't live under a rock their entire lives? The fact that you dissapprove of porn doesn't mean that the rest of the country should bow to your victorian era sensibilities. If it did, my frustration with religion would mean that every church in America should close it's doors. The fact is that if a few of these uptight puratans would get out of their church and watch a good old porn, this country would be a lot better off.
I have no hang-ups with 16 year olds - the discussion was in relation to things bought up by the peson I was discussing it with, not hte OP.
You say I have Victorian attitudes to porn - but my position has nothing to do with any moral issue, this is maybe new for you but I consider that this new visual age in conjunction with the commodification of people is all about reducing respect and values to further separate people to make us easier to control.
The basic argument has two sides and goes - if it is right for you to watch what you want for personal gratification, (lets call it what it is, w@anking), then what objection can you have for a paedophile wanting to watch what he wants. If it is wrong to film and watch children being abused then how is it less wrong to film and watch those same children being abused as adults?
this is not about one person watching a sexy movie, it is about the overall idea of the industry and the w@nkers in front of the box. How any of it can increase or maintain any respect or human dignity is the issue, if you think it is no issue then maybe you should show your kids ?
I'm not sure that adults having sex and being paid ridiculous amounts of money to do such is really abuse. The term abuse implies victimization with no control over the situation. I'm not sure voluntarily entering a contract qualifies.
Pedophilia victims don't have a choice. Even if a pedophile is ridiculous enough to claim that a child agreed, that child has not developed enough emotional maturity to reasonably make that choice
That would be the difference.
By your logic, any wife that has sex with her husband and then spends 100 dollars on a dress later that day is being abused.
And the idea of showing children porn to prove a point that it is not inherently abusive to the actors is hyperbole at best.
If you have such a problem with sex, maybe you should seek therapy. Porn is not pedophilia and maybe you should look inside your self to figure out why you associate the two.
I am not associating paedophilia with porn beyond the argument that has developed above - maybe if you read it before making a personal attack on me you may understand the argument enough to comment.
You are confused about the sex industry, there is little money for the sexual object and often little choice. Smoothing over the abuse that is the whole system of porn is turning a blind eye just so that you can masturbate on your own in private.
1. I did read the entire thread and drew my conclusions from everything I read. Sorry, I calls em how I sees em.
2. Didn't make a personal attack, just an observation. I neither know you well enough nor care enough about you to make a personal attack.
3. Are you saying that porn is made at gunpoint?
4. I don't watch porn and I certainly don't masturbate to it. What I am saying is that if an adult male wants to watch paid actors having sex in the privacy of his own home, I see absolutely no abuse there.
5. It angers me when people perceive every thing in the world as abuse. Generally (again just an observation) these individuals either (1) have absolutely no idea what true abuse looks like or (2) have been abused and now are hyperviligent and libel to take offense at everything. Either way a therapist is a good idea.
6. When the individuals in point 5 start whining about consensual adult decisions being abuse, it takes away from the real power of the word. I don't know what porn YOU are talking about but porn made by force I guess would be considered rape. I would venture an educated guess that this porn (and I'm sure it exists somewhere, although most rape fetish porn is acted) accounts for only a very very small percentage the industry.
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