LOL That would be an American Christian. Although the Catholics are coming around. They believed in evolution and the Big Bang for about 50 years now. Their school curriculum is impressive and they teach students not to take the Bible stories literally. But they need work on issues like homophobia, contraception and a few others.
American Christians maybe...I think some people may not understand the meaning of the word....
To be Christian does not mean to attend church, take communion and judge everybody around you. Being Christian literally means to be Christ like. If the people claiming to be Christian are not Christ like then they are simply using the wrong word. Call them maybe theists. Because if they truly understood the God they believe in then they would be walking the walk. This is not to say they would never mess up, I mean we are human. We are supposed to be Christ like, not Christ himself. But if even the like behavior is not attempted then we know where the problem lies...
Also the Christians I know here in Canada believe in the Big Bang and evolution...I don't know how you can deny evolution as we can actually observe it. To deny it is like denying gravity. I am kinda scared to know the "Christians" you know. I also do not know any homophobic Christians, or any with contraceptive issues. (I know a lot of married couples, if they had issues with contraceptives we would have way to many kids running around here).
I know Christians who love God, love people, and treat the Bible as a piece of literature. Reading it carefully and critically. Following it up with research. Which by the way is exactly what God says to do in the Bible.
If you ask a Christian, they should say that being a Christian comes first, then being an American would come in a close second.
Too bad many Christians don't even walk the walk of being Christian, much less understand what it means to be an American.
If you are a Christian then turn to what Jesus taught on the issue not to random anonymous strangers :p
Jesus said to leave everything and follow Him. Everything means your titles to.
You are a Christian which means "Christ like". As a Christ like person the identifying factor should be your association which the Christ.
Then perhaps if it matters, you are an American.
Try this song by Lecrae, it is called Identity.
"I am not the shoes I wear, I am not the clothes I buy, I'm not the house I live in, I'm not the car I drive. I'm not the job work, you can't define my worth by nothing on God's green earth. It's found in Christ, my identity is found in Christ"
So if you are Christian that title is meaningless too?
Christian means Christ like. The title means nothing. The behavior is what matters. You are representing Christ's name to the world. That is all that matters. Your behavior and your heart, what people call you doesn't matter. The first Christians did not call themselves Christians, the people around them started that trend. They were simply saying these people are Christ like. That is what they wanted to be. The word Christian has lost all meaning in today's society, I was trying to say one is Christian first using the original meaning of the word. I will rephrase.
You follow Christ first.
There are millions of Christians in the American military, past and present. Just an observation...
anyone who worships the one true Living GOD would know that HE must come first...no country is even in the running. you dont love countries...you love people as individuals. when you put your love in countries you lose sight of individuals and people get hurt and you start disobeying GODs law of loving your neighbor as your self.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
It's really something how judgmental you are, when you hate being judged. What do you call it homophobia?, Uneducated American! and Too bad many Christians don't even walk the walk of being Christian, much less understand what it means to be an American. Understand what it mean to love.
Many possible answers. If you are speaking of the time line, Christianity existed long before Americans, and thus came first.
Or you could twist in it the Christian manner and declare that "American" is a matter of people and not geography - in that case mankind existed long before Christianity or even it's predecessor of Judaism and therefore "American" came first.
Or, if you are speaking of importance rather than time, "America" is a government of laws and people. Those laws prohibit special treatment of any religion and America is far more important than any form of religious belief. Most people understand this and support that the freedom to believe is more important than the belief itself as far as being American is concerned.
Christianity is a resent term, but the principle of christianity existed before man existed. A christian is a follower of christ, there was follows of christ before man existed,
Can you explain what you mean by followers of christ before man existed? How is that possible? Christ was a man wasn't he? Or is Christ and Jesus two different people? If there was followers before man existed who were the followers and what nature of Christ were they following?
Jesus was a man. Christ is more like a title. The title didn't come into play until after the crucifixion.
Yes I thought that was the case. It makes no sense that their were followers of Christ before man existed then. Perhaps the poster meant something else?
Christ is the savior. There were people waiting for the Christ long before Jesus was born. They had faith that He was coming, and in this way they were followers. Read some of the small prophets and you will see the connection.
Jesus was the man who was titled the Christ. Christ Jesus. People did not have faith in His human form, they had faith in His Godhood, and since Jesus the Christ was one with God there were people you could consider "Christian" or Christ Like before Jesus was even born. You just have to refer to the actual meaning of the word, not the meaning people commonly use.
The title of Christian was definitely used after the time of Jesus however, it is first mentioned in Acts. The people around the followers of Christ first called them Christians because they behaved Christ Like.
So what did the poster mean about followers of Christ before man existed do you think? Is that even possible?
If you read Hebrews it is explained briefly. People were saved by faith in the coming savior the same way people now are saved by faith in the resurrected savior. Jesus was and is that savior, that people waited for and now people are waiting for once again.
I did not see the original post that this was about...I am thinking it was something along the lines of there being Christians before Jesus?
I would say that it was possible for people to behave in a Christ like manner before Jesus, look at Abraham. They were not called Christians then, but in the truest sense of the word we could apply the title to them now. They were Christ like, they had faith that God would provide, they had faith in the promised Savior.
Personally I wouldn't call them Christians because there is so much confusion over the word. I would just call them faithful followers of God. (Since Jesus is God it could work though) :p
Maybe that is what the poster was pointing to? When the poster said there were followers of Christ before man existed. 'man' may have meant Jesus. If so then the post makes sense and it is highly likely the poster was pointing to followers of God.
By not calling them "Christian" Is saying they should be ashamed of being Christian followers of Christ. One should be proud to stand up for one's belief no matter how unpopular it might be.
You need to read the previous posts in the thread to understand the context of what I was saying here. I was talking about people before the time of Jesus. I explained that we could call them Christian (or Christ Like) but it would cause confusion as the current understanding of the word is quite different than the original.
People who behave in a Christ like manner now a days, of course call them Christian. I am not ashamed of my belief. I am ashamed of what people do in the name of my savior. But then, I am ashamed about what people do in general.
CHRIST existed from the beginning with GOD, though HE did not make HIS existence known to us until it was time (HIS birth and death and Resurrection). GOD created man...some men followed GOD....some men knew of and believed on the CHRIST even before HIS birth. so some men followed the CHRIST even before HIS birth. but it is impossible for any man to to follow/worship GOD before that man existed. some people wish to believe our souls have always existed, thus giving us some sort of equality with GOD. this is not so. GOD created our bodies...and then HE breathed life into them and we became a living soul. that is when we came into existence. when we die, that is it. we do not live multiple life times in an attempt to "get it right'. you have this one lifetime to make the right choices and i pray you choose wisely.
You just solved the puzzling thought I had when you said some people wish to believe our souls have always existed. The poster was not referring to man as in the physical man that we know man to be. Our primal source or part thereof is what the poster was probably talking about. Makes sense now.
I would not discount multiple lives that easily. There is much that isn't known about our existence and until we can definitely say it is impossible to live multiple lives I would not discount the possibility.
Creative being were before man and they were followers of christ. Other worlds were before man and they were followers of christ. Christ was before anything, He was just called another name.
I am a believer first and foremost.. everything comes after that. My God is first, than my spouse, children, family, job so on... down the line. All my status' come after who I am in the Lord.
How can you compare a religion to a nationality though? A Christian just means you accept the moral values of the Christian belief and that you believe Jesus is your savior.
Your statement reminds me of the story of Abraham, so you would also kill your children if god commanded you to?
No being Christian means to be Christ like. It is not just accepting the morals that Jesus taught, and it is not just about accepting Him as your savior. To be Christian means to be Christ like. To actually follow those morals, and believe me any body who is a Christian in the truest sense of the word will be defined by their Christian behavior. The morals and behavior Jesus exhibited are not exactly common now a days. If anybody was to be Christ like the people would notice and remember them by that behavior.
In the newer sense of the word, Christian just meaning somebody who goes to Church and plays the role of a follower while doing whatever they want, then I would agree you cannot put that false title ahead of your nationality. Of course that would be for the pure and simple reason that it is a false title.
Also I have to comment about your mentioning of Abraham.
In order to answer that question you need to consider who the God of Christianity is.
If you fully understood who he is, you would not need to ask that question.
Well to me the story is quite straightforward. Eitherway, pieces of religious text are always interpreted in many ways.
It seemed to me that God, who you should always trust, sometimes sets you up to test your faith. I believe thats the excuse used to explain dinosaur fossils? excuse my english if it isn't correct
how does the testing of faith correlate with the dinosaur fossils??? you caught my attention on that one
Well i don't know if this hold true for all Christians, but some of them believe the earth is only approx 4000 years old. The reason for this is that if you count all the bible stories up starting from the beginning to now you have about 4000 years (based on how old people get and when a new story starts).
If you counter their beliefs by the findings of fossils, they often will say that this is a test from god to see if you have faith in him. Just like god tested Abaraham
Ahhh I hadn't heard that one.. it's 6000... 2000 between major events... but the thing with dinosaurs is... the bible says 1 day to us can be like a 1000 to the Lord or vice versa... but also carbon dating is very inaccurate on bone. You can have one scientist take a bone and carbon date it and it might say 1 million... another one might take same bone and get 100,000... I know people who say that when God made the earth in 7 days it was 7 days as we know.. maybe it was.. maybe it wasn't. I guess to me it doesn't matter it doesn't affect what I believe one way or another.. we know for fact because of the grand canyon that it was carved out by a major flood.. and the fossil evidence in it show that flood to have been about 4000 years ago. They have further evidence that when the volcanos of the deep opened up for that flood, and the rain poured from the sky (which was a different atomshpere) that it caused quite an atomspheric change as well as probably causing ice in some places... thing is.. eventually science always proves out the word... I guess some people just base faith on everything they can see.. instead of it just being faith
Umm I don't believe that is a valid excuse for fossils. I believe that there are fossils because there used to be dinosaurs haha I have never heard a Christian deny the existence of dinosaurs. Interesting though lol
It isn't a valid excuse for fossils, thats why i brought it up. The common normal belief would be indeed that there were dinosaurs. I've always heard that that was the reason, to test our faith. What do you think their explanation is for the age difference between fossils and their holy book
Well the genesis account says that God made the animals on one day, and the humans on another. Later in another document it explains the length of God's days (hundreds to thousands of years as he is timeless). I will find the verse for you later. (I am at work )So the animals existed for a full day (which could mean any number of our days and years) before we existed. This is the time in which dinosaurs could have existed, and evolved.
you are misunderstanding things. the account of creation was not just to teach us who our Creator was, but to give us time, to teach us about the guidelines of time. GOD created time for us. HE created all things in 6 days and rested on the 7th, thus setting time in motion. if it were as you say, time would still be in flux. GOD HIMSELF exists outside of time and space and is not affected by it. HE created it for us. we are bound by the laws of time. once we are born...we WILL die...there is no escaping that, no avoiding it. that is the law of time. as for the dinosaurs, they existed with man. they were killed with the flood, 99 percent of them. GOD has allowed their bones to fossilize to put a stumbling block before man. to confuse those who reject HIM. as well as those who choose to listen to man rather than HIM. there are many so called christians out there who focus on the teachings of man instead of the teachings of GOD. they will perish for that mistake.
So God put dinosaur bones in the rocks to confuse man? Where do you get that from? Are you also suggesting that Christians who accept Evolution are only "so called Christians" and will go to hell "for that mistake". Where does this come from?
You must have a very low opinion of God if you think he gets upset because people don't agree with a minority of evangelical fundamentalists like yourself.
I disagree, I do not believe that God would put such a stumbling block before us. In fact Jesus says that it is better for a man to have a large stone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the water than to be a stumbling block. I doubt He would then go and be a stumbling block Himself. That does not coincide with what Jesus taught in the NT or what was taught in the OT by the prophets.
I do not rely on the teachings of people when I seek to understand the Bible. I rely on the word itself. I think it is very important to read it carefully. God set time in motion yes (He set everything in motion :p), but our conception of time differs from His conception. In fact it was on the first "day" that God made day and night, our understanding of day being light and night being dark. This is what He did for the duration of the first "day". In order for what you are saying to make sense then God must have made day before actually separating darkness and light and calling them night and day. This would be saying what God said was false. The more reasonable solution, and the one that coincides with the Bible teachings is that one of God's "days" are significantly different than one of the days He gave to us. This makes sense as He is God, and we are simply human.
Refer to Peter 3:8
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."
The greater and lesser light that defines time as we know it were not created until after the earth and vegetation were created. So there was no time as we know it to exist. Space time is different to ours so one would assume the timeline for the first days of creation differed to time as we know it.
Evolutionists could therefore be finding fossils from the period prior to the greater and lesser light?
It is Man who wrote the bible. So what is the difference? Unless one is listening to the God within.
I think it's not what was asked that is the concern... Yes the Lord asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, but the awesomeness lies in the fact that Abraham had God's promises that Isaac would be the Father of many nations.. if he's dead how is that accomplished. He knew he is Lord, he had a relationship. He trusted that as he acted in obedience that it would not come to that point. I would hope that I know and trust my Lord and would act in obedience trusting the end result. I don't think this compares to those who kill their children like Casey Anthony or the one who drove hers into a lake
I understand, but i don't agree with the fact that you use your god to justify moral wrongdoings. By that i don't mean commit murder, but more like homophobia, racism, ...
What do you mean by that? God demands that we abstain from moral wrong doings, so how could be use him to justify them? People who are homophobic are simply not Christian (Christ like). Christ loved all people, and to be homophobic is not loving. To disagree with ones behavior is okay, and to voice that is okay. Racism falls under the same wing.
Jesus asked two things of us.
Anybody who will not show that love due to some form of discrimination does not fall under the title of Christian which literally means Christ like.
Not many realize that love God and love people means exactly that. Look at all that has happened in the name of God. What God might they have been listening to when they did what they did in Gods name? The Vatican history is filled with these type of people who believed they were killing for God. The bible have many examples of people who thought God was telling them to do this and do that when in reality it probably wasn't.
The fact that people believe they need to do things on behalf of God demonstrates their lack of faith in God and the limitations that they themselves place on God that is infinite in nature. It is an unaware mind and its inability to recognize God. The unaware mind fails to understand that God does not need them to kill or maim another.
Love is love how can anyone get that wrong?
I think people get it wrong because they are thinking of the type of love they have received from other people. Love between humans is conditional, I will love you as long as you love me. I will be kind to you as long as you are kind to me. I will be good to you as long as you are good to me.
We attribute this human quality to God, we try to humanize Him. He will only love us if we do these things for Him, He will only be kind to us if we are kind to Him, He will only be good to us if we are good.
The problem is that God is not human, He is God. He will love us no matter what, He will be kind to us no matter what, and He will be good to us no matter what. There is nothing we can or cannot do that will change God's mind. We just don't have that type of power. It would be scary if we held that kind of power over an all powerful creator. Not to mention that it wouldn't make sense :p
When we realize that God is unconditional, perfect love, and that it is a love we cannot experience anywhere else, then we can realize what He wants us to do. It is very simple, we are to receive that love and then practice that love towards all of those around us. Spread that love. But God's love does not always look like being nice. If you read what Jesus says it was not always "nice" it was honest. He said and did what was best for others, and that is what love looks like.
So you may get those "Christians" that say love looks like accepting everybody as they are and loving them. Or you get those "Christians" that riot against all that people are and do and forget to love them. The problem is that neither approach is love.
I love the people around too much to accept them as they are. I accept them, and I love them. But I want them to grow, I want them to be challenged and I want them to live. To love them as they are and only as they are is pointless because tomorrow they will be a different person entirely. I need to love them, while encouraging them to grow. That does not always look nice, my brother had situation where he was dating two girls and a guy at the same time behind their backs.
I love him, I wanted him to be happy. But I could not stand by what he was doing, it was going to hurt them and him. In that case love looked like some honest and frank words. But those words helped him realize what he was doing. It wasn't nice. But love isn't always nice, it is always kind. Very different.
Anyways that is my little rant on love. I think it is an amazing topic to talk about! One that many Christians, as well as non Christians think they understand completely. Thing is, God is love. And if you think you understand God completely, you have a long way to go.
The main problem is that most people who call themselves Christians aren't Christ like. The reason for this is that these people believe being a christian is the only right choice, and this is exactly the reason why i don't like most religions. Because they put you in a class system where your class is good and obeys god while the other systems will end up burning in hell (according to their belief).
That is an interesting perspective. But I think in order to be Christ like, and therefore Christian one must understand and believe what Christ taught correct?
Christ taught that there is only one way to the Father, and that is through Him (Jesus).
It should not be that Christians are in a position where they think they are good, and others will will burn in Hell. That statement in itself is entirely unchristian.
Christians believe that all people are sinful. All of us, Christians included. There is nothing we do that can save us from that sinfulness. The one who saves us is Jesus. It does not make a Christian better or worse of a person than anyone else when they accept that saving grace. It just means that they have understood and accepted the teachings of Jesus and are ready to begin living out that Christian life. They still sin. They are no better than anybody else. They are no better off on this earth than anybody else. The difference is that they have chosen to allow the savior to save them.
Also the Bible does not teach that one will burn in Hell. That image of burning in Hell comes from pagan religions.
The Biblical Hell is simply separation from God. Eternal separation from God, it actually looks like it is supposed to be eternal solitude.
The Bible basically lays things out like this. We were made with the ability of choice. We have a choice to make during our lifetime. We can choose to be with God through Jesus as Jesus taught. But this means living a life of love. Following the two commandments, love God and love other people.
Or we can choose to be separate from God. It doesn't mean we don't live lives that help others or that we cannot do good things if we are apart from God. It just means that we chose separation instead of communion.
This choice however determines what God will do for us. In the long run He will give us which ever option we chose. If we chose to be with Him (not superficially actually chose in our hearts) He will bring us to be with Him. If we chose to be separate, he will separate Himself from us. But once we reach the end of our life and have made our final choice, we cannot change our minds.
Christians believe wholeheartedly that being with God is preferable to separation. So they follow the instructions Jesus laid out for them. Spread the good news. Jesus made it possible for us to choose to be with God, that is the good news. Through Jesus we can make that choice to be saved from separation.
Since Christians are supposed to be loving and care about the people around them of course they want to spread this news.
Think of it this way, if you knew about a bank machine with an infinite amount of money, where you could make an infinite amount of withdrawals would you share? Would you tell other people about this infinite wealth?
Christians want to tell about the infinite spiritual wealth that can be found in communion. Our job is NOT to condemn. It is NOT to tell people they are going to burn in Hell. It is NOT to judge. It is to spread the good news in LOVE. Sometimes telling people about the Biblical Hell is necessary, but telling somebody they are condemned is not our job. ONLY God can make that judgement.
Christians can talk about Hell yes, but any Christian that tells you that you are going to Hell cannot make that claim. That would be trying to take on God's role. It isn't Christ like, it isn't Christian.
Also I am sorry about the essay length answer :p I try to cover all my bases. I don't want to be misunderstood. I have had some bad experiences on these forums due to not explaining myself well enough lol
Perfect way of solving this is "tl;dr", stands for 'Too long, didn't read'. What you do is you write tl;dr and then a small summary of what you said. in 1-3 lines
Summary: I talked about Christianity.
If it is too long then don't read it. But if you honestly want to clear up misconceptions or get past stereotypes of Christians then I would recommend reading it. Honestly you should be able to read the post in under a minute. If that is too much time to take in a conversation then perhaps we are both wasting our time.
im bored, want to read my thesis on Cradle to Cradle?
So if God told you to kill your child would you not question that and just go ahead and kill your child?
People like to look at the right hand of God, but, never look at the left hand of God. Let look at God's left hand and see some statements He made.
1. Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. What if I would call you Satan
2. Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: what If I would call you a fool, what would you say.
3.John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. What if I told you you done know what you worship?
How can Jesus make these statements, 1. He is not taking to Peter, he is talking to satan 2. How can Jesus call a man a fool when he tells us not to do it. Jesus is talking about the act not the person. 3. The key word here is of the Jews, they we show you how to get to me. Each one of us have a job to do.
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
. . . . serve God, family, country. That is the way it is listed in an American military officer's oath.
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