David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D

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   gmwilliamsposted 12 years ago

   Dr. Hawkins is a psychologist/psychiatrist and a spiritual teacher.  He is a prolific author of many books e.g. POWER VS FORCE, ALONG THE PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT,  THE EYE OF THE I, and TRUTH VS FALSEHOOD, HOW TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE among other works.   His theory is any human consciousness realization above 200 is positve and truthful and any type of human consciousness below the level of 200 is negative and false.   Dr. Hawkins further portended that the highest level of human consciousness is 1000 or the Christ consciousness.    He further maintained that the consciousness level of humankind has recently reached the 200(truth and integrity) level.   He related that previously, the majority of humankind could not tell the difference between truth and falsehood as evidence by historic events such as war and other destructive acts.   Are you familiar with either Dr. Hawkins or his works?   If so, what is your opinion of his works?

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      twosheds1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I saw a video of Oprah extolling his virtues. Unfortunately, having degrees doesn't inoculate you against becoming a quack. He provides no evidence to support his ridiculous ideas. Some people might find them helpdul or reassuring, but I'll stick to reality.

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      How does he measure consciousness in those terms?

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   Nouveau Skepticposted 12 years ago

   My opinion is: meh.

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   karthikkashposted 12 years ago

   I have seen the video of Dr. Hawkins' Power Vs Force. I am a practitioner of NLP and an offshoot of that called NLP-K (NLP with Kinesiology, and is an upcoming branch of hypnotherapy/psychology or sciences related to that). It works similar to NLP and more powerful in certain aspects of the subconscious mind. If you are asking for a proof of his theory about the consciousness level, there is no proof. Does that mean his theory is false? Give me the "proof" that it is false. How about we list all the things that science hasn't "proven" and still exist. By those terms, show me that what I am breathing is oxygen and not carbon-di-oxide.. I hope you get it.
   
   When we were trained in NLP-K, one of the experiments we conducted was to check our individual conscious level and the group conscious level of that group. The consciousness level is to basically check how self-aware you are. The more self-aware you are, a better human being you are. You know your powers and you know how to use it in a proper way. Most of us averaged anywhere between 350-500 (our trainer rated a bit less than 500). It is indeed said that not only Jesus, but all gods from all religions had a a consciousness level of 1000.
   
   Now, what is the consciousness level of the world? Well.. Let's be honest. It is filled with dumb idiots and highly self-aware saints. So, you obviously need to take an average of that and calculate it. It's a highly tedious task if we start counting it. It also depends upon what kind of society we are talking about. A well educated society obviously has a higher consciousness level than a society which hasn't had any form of education.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Such as? Please provide examples
      
      
      
      That's not difficult to do using a simple Lambda (O2) sensor.
      
      
      
      How do you test self-awareness? What is the scale that is used to determine your numbers?

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         karthikkashposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There is a different process in NLP-K we use to identify the consciousness level of a person. Since NLP-K or kinesiology is not known much worldwide (I guess about less than 20-30K people may be aware of this method), you may not be able to find the details online. NLP-K basically works on the "belief system" of a person i.e., what a person truly believes at the subconscious level. Where hypnotherapy and NLP take some time, need re-working/re-anchoring from time to time and may have adverse effects if screwed up, NLP-K is a fast and safe process. The process needs to be done only once to make a belief permanent at the subconscious level.
         
         NLP-K works on a simple context that our mind and body muscles are interconnected, in the sense, one can control the other. NLP-K uses this context for its techniques. Calculating a person's self-awareness becomes fairly easy once you have learned the basic techniques, which itself is fairly easy.

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            Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            This is really interesting. Where did you get trained? How long does it take?
            And what do you do with the training? Do you go out and train others?

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               karthikkashposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               There are two levels, basic and advanced. After those two levels, there is a "train the trainer" course. I am not sure how much it costs abroad. I am also not sure which other countries the workshop happens. When I did the workshop, I know that it was also being taught in Germany majorly and a bit in US. I did it about 6 years ago. I was fortunate enough to be trained by the person who co-created NLP-K with Dr. John Grinder (co-creator of NLP). He is an Indian and the person who trained my NLP coach. I was one among the first few people who got trained in India.
               
               I don't remember exactly how many days the course was for (honestly, it's been quite a while since I did the course). But if I remember it properly, both the basic and advanced courses are of 2.5 days each. The course for training others will obviously be longer. I have done just the basic and advanced courses.
               
               These two courses will be sufficient if you want to do a self belief-change or you want to work with someone on a one-on-one basis. Of course, that is what I majorly use it for. You can of course do it for past life regression and other stuff similar to NLP for certain things. Most times, I use it for working on my own subconscious mind and my belief changes. I got to say, it is tried and tested and it works wonders. I personally tested 350 on consciousness-level at that point of time (for a 21-year old.. LOL!! I haven't tested in recent times).
               
               However, I would like to warn you about something. It is not a silver bullet for winning an Olympics gold. It just forms a belief system at the subconscious level. The rest of the results does depend on your efforts. Also, NLP-K is not a substitute for medical attention. But since it works on the subconscious level, it definitely helps in expediting the healing process if you have ailments.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo.
            
            I found this site...  http://www.nlp-k.com/... and found on that page a "Law of Attraction" workshop, which is baloney for sure. I can only assume the rest of it is baloney, too. I see no science there.

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               karthikkashposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               err.. Yes troubled man..  I agree.. The whole subconscious mind, hypnotherapy, psychology, psychiatry, hypnotism, NLP etc are all BS.. And I am an idiot who deals with subconscious mind. I totally agree. Thanks for your opinion..

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I never called you an idiot, I merely examined the link provided and saw nothing of any substance there relating to science and saw something that was definitely pseudoscience.
                  
                  If you can show me some science there, I'd be happy to see it.

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                     karthikkashposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Troubled Man: I am really sorry for being sarcastic. But, sometimes I think we get too much into being "scientific" and "scientific proof" that we stop believing that there are somethings that exist beyond the already available "scientific evidence". Nobody said pseudo-science in itself is bad. It becomes bad when it is harmful in some way.
                     
                     My logic is extremely simple. If you need evidence, try it yourself (this is not a chemical program where you can potentially turn into a zombie if something goes wrong ). If it works for you, wonderful!! That itself is evidence. Otherwise, it probably doesn't work for you. Simple!! There are people who teach NLP in every country. I am unsure if there is an official website of NLP-K unfortunately. But, probably you can do some research when you have free time, if you are keen about it.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Why should anyone believe that? Makes no sense.
                        
                        
                        
                        It's bad because it's pure baloney and tends to make people believe in ridiculous concepts.

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         Suzie Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If a gator latches on to your leg, that question goes right out the window along with any smug, or arrogant attitude you may have had about alligators.

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            kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What a random and nonsensical comment.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.

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               Suzie Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I guess that does sound funny if you never crossed a gator. Nevermind.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I have. And, even before I did, I most certainly had every bit of respect for it and understand just how easy it would be to lose a leg. No, I never had any smug or arrogant attitudes towards gators.
                  
                  Btw, what does your shirt read? I can't quite make it out.

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                     Suzie Crumcakesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     We don't take ourselves so serious around here. My fiancé gave it to me. If it were about his attributes, he would have a really small brain. If you want to see bad enough, you will figure out how to get a closer look. Don’t get fresh, or I’ll slap you silly.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        "I Wish These Were Brains"
                        
                        Funny stuff.

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   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Since the Enlightenment the tendency has been to assume things are not true until there is evicence that they are.  This saves a lot of time as an infinite number of unproven things might be true, but a pretty good proportion of those for which there is some prove are true.

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   TahoeDocposted 12 years ago

   The Christ Consciousness, really? Let's just say I think the same thing of him that I think of anyone who claims to have been visited by an angel to provide enlightenment  AND anyone who uses big medical words in disingenuous ways to lend authority to what is nothing more than a personal belief or motive to sell stuff.
   http://www.spiritualteachers.org/david_hawkins.htm states it quite well.
   
   I think I need to stop writing articles for pennies and start on a book.

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   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   If it quacks like a quack, it's probably a quack.
   
   If I tried every quack therapy, self-improvement and remedy I suspect it would have killed me by now.  Instead I hold the methods and claims up against common sense and what i learned during a good science education, and if it is the usual psychological snake oil--I discard it.
   
   If it helps you, then fine.  But don't expect to find too many other followers on an open forum full of critical thinkers.  Pseudo-science is bad on it;s face because it perpetuated incorrect beliefs about matters of fact (not just opinion), and some of these will cause people to make bad choices.

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