Is this an egotistical God?
Is this a quantum God that doesn't exist without observers?
Was this a bored God that wanted playthings?
Why would a totally perfect and self containing alpha-omega need/want creatures to complete itself?
Or are we like God's 'body' cells and that we are all a part of God?
Just asking for general purposes.
What is the nature of reality is what I'm trying to get at.
He wasn't creating worshipers, he was creating sons and daughters. You see God is in trinity, he was in relationship from the beginning. In the garden were two trees the tree of life and the tree of knowledge, God put them there because he wanted us to one day eat from then, but it happened to soon and we became tainted with sin, so God removed our right to eternal life. Then at a particular time after the prophets sent his son to restore our right to eternal life through his sacrifice, the blood of the real lamb Jesus
If there are no worshippers...There are no gods...Look at the Roman and Greek Gods...They are only myths today...But at one time they were as real as the Christian God of today...
The Greeks had the idea that worship was food for the gods. Those who were worshiped the most were the strongest. Those who were forgotten became weak and faded away.
Basically they are parasites. I say we starve them all to death. They really are more of a nuisance than they are worth.
Cool - I didn't know that. I thought food for the Gods was mead, beer, wine & liquor! Or a B sci-fi movie The Food of the Gods
I don't think we have a clue as to exactly what/who God is.
The bible tells us that we are spiritual beings inside of this physical body. I agree with that.
In the beginning God said "let us make man in our image. I think he was talking to us.
We did. Here we are. And when this physical body dies we will go home to the spiritual realm.
I think we are supposed to keep this in our periferal vision while we are enjoying to the fullest,this gift of life. We are not supposed to steal someone elses joy thinking we can obtain more than we have cause it doesn't work like that. We shouldn't steal someone elses just because we borke ours.
We should always be thankful to the life giver regardless of what we have done to the gift that was given to us.
Or something like that.
Best post yet - any label limits.
BTW when he said 'we' that meant 'us gods' - it's plural in Hebrew. I don't think it's angels in the the 'we' plural form
http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/mon … urals.html
"When the plural and androgynous Hebrew word Elohim was translated into the singular and sexless word God, the opening chapters of Genesis were rendered comparatively meaningless. " - http://www.truthcontrol.com/elohim
Do we really know if there is a difference between Angels and sons of God.
Michael the Arch Angel is said to be the one to stand up for the Children of Daniels people redeaming some of them from among man and some which are in the grave (Daniel 12:1)
And in the NT it is Jesus Christ who will do this thing?
Is Michael and Jesus Christ the same person??
I think that if we did understand completely the plan of the Creator ; that plan wouldn't work.
You know? too many cooks spoil the stew ... don't let the right hand know what the left hand is doing? etc. etc.
JUST maybe the physical world is just a figmant of the spiritual worlds imigination. And the TRUTH and Reality can be construed as it darn well pleases. This is just as much a posability as anything else is. ??????
God wants to be loved. We get worship out of love and adoration and then we get worship out of fear.
As much as God wants to be loved, we have the other one, Satan, who wants to be worshiped because of his huge ego.
He wasn't bored; He made us like people want children to love. We are made from God and not part of Him.
This is an excellent question.
The Christian God is often claimed to be perfect, a perfect being lacks nothing and thus needs nothing. So either the Christian God ISN'T perfect and created us for some need OR our existence is arbitrary and he created us because of what he WANTED to do.
Makes me scratch my head about how Christians claim we atheists have no meaning or purpose to our lives. What is their purpose? Were they created just to bow before a tyrant in paradise for eternity? Is that REALLY a good meaning to life?
I asked this question last year. I mostly got people telling me he doesn't need worshipers, we need to be worshipers so we will be saved. Saved from what but his wrath if we don't, I wonder.
I also wonder what the difference is?
Yet the bible clearly tells us that god wants to be praised for his work. He even goes to extremes with Pharaoh, trying to impress on him that he is to be glorified.
Call it praise or glorification, it's the same need. The Christian Jewish god is an egomaniac that demands love and worship on penalty of eternal damnation.
But you won't find many Christians that will agree on what hell is, what eternal damnation means, or what worship does or not do for god. They seem all have their own religion under one umbrella name.
To discuss or debate a Christian you have to be specific and target particular types of Christian. Catholics will answer these questions completely differently than a Calvinist will. A Mormon will answer with ideas that conflict with a Jew or Jehovah Witness.
So I doubt that you will get much out of Christians by way of the nature of reality. You are better off looking to science and philosophy of science for clues to those answers.
Assuming God was real, he even goes as far as saying worship no one but me!
Then I assume you do not believe in the bible. It makes it very clear in the bible that you are to worship God.
I believe that the bible is a book full of parables with a lot of truth to it. I will never worship a god. Even the one I believe in.
Because He deserves to be worshiped.....http://youtu.be/RKMw1ndl-EY. Loui Giglio is the pastor in the video and has a ton of great information concerning creation and other awesome topics on God's power.
According to the wikipedia definition of worship-"The word is derived from the Old English worthscipe, meaning worthiness or worth-ship — to give, at its simplest, worth to something.". It is simply giving credit where credit it due. He created everything and He deserves to be praised for it.
So how many times do you have to say thanks a lot for all the fish? For eternity even after you die? Once is not enough? Really?
Did you ask to be born or created? Do you really think that a world where all things must suffer, where all things must kill other things just to survive from day to day is really all that wonderful and perfect if it was designed that way on purpose?
On the contrary, my friend. Any conscious god that created this mess on purpose can not be forgiven for his crimes against his creation. So I am more than happy that gods are probably imagination and nothing more. I doubt I would do much worshiping if they were real.
The world is a wonderful and dreadful place at the same time. I love life and find it amazing beyond belief. But only as long as no consciousness created it.
After all, if it was not made with intent then the stuff that happens is not punishment or reward. It just is the natural way it all works. No god required.
I sleep well knowing that's probably the truth of the matter.
God never asked us to worship him. It's us that realize after some point of time that there has to be someone we could look up to. That's God!
Nevertheless, He is the Almighty. He created the world, he created us. We worship Him to get our wishes done. God never persuades us to worship Him.
Extol the Lord our God and worship at His footstool! Holy is He! Psalm 99: 5
And He has put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many shall see and fear (revere and worship) and put their trust and confident reliance in the Lord. Psalm 40:
But as for me, I will enter Your house through the abundance of Your steadfast love and mercy; I will worship toward and at Your holy temple in reverent fear and awe of You. Psalm 5: 7
Ascribe to the Lord the glory due His name. Bring an offering and come before Him; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness and in holy array. 1 Chronicles 16: 29
Sing to Him, sing praises to Him; meditate on and talk of all His wondrous works and devoutly praise them! 1 Chronicles 16: 9
O fear the Lord, you His saints [revere and worship Him]! For there is no want to those who truly revere and worship Him with godly fear. Psalm 34: 9
O magnify the Lord with me, and let us exalt His name together. Psalm 34: 3
I will sing a new song to You, O God; upon a harp, an instrument of ten strings, will I offer praises to You. Psalm 144: 9
All Your works shall praise You, O Lord, and Your loving ones shall bless You [affectionately and gratefully shall Your saints confess and praise You]! Psalm 145: 10
God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality). John 4: 24
The secrets of his heart are laid bare; and so, falling on [his] face, he will worship God, declaring that God is among you in very truth. 1 Corinthians 14: 25
Give to the Lord the glory due to His name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness or in holy array. Psalm 29: 2
O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker [in reverent praise and supplication]. Psalm 95: 6
Let us therefore, receiving a kingdom that is firm and stable and cannot be shaken, offer to God pleasing service and acceptable worship, with modesty and pious care and godly fear and awe. Hebrews 12: 28
Moreover, when He brings the firstborn Son again into the habitable world, He says, Let all the angels of God worship Him.
Hebrews 1: 6
The twenty-four elders (the members of the heavenly Sanhedrin) fall prostrate before Him Who is sitting on the throne, and they worship Him Who lives forever and ever; and they throw down their crowns before the throne, crying out, Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and dominion, for You created all things; by Your will they were [brought into being] and were created. Revelation 4: 10-11
There shall no longer exist there anything that is accursed (detestable, foul, offensive, impure, hateful, or horrible). But the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall worship Him [pay divine honors to Him and do Him holy service].
Revelation 22: 3
Which one of these verses in your post does it say God wants or God said to do so?
The best that I can tell; every one of these verses are "one mans" advice as to how to please the Lord.
Which attitude that your child might have ( admiration or disrespect) would inspire you to indulge their wanting. Not that you would demand either one?
Uh, did you actually read those verses, Jerami?
We teach our children by example, Jerami, not just spouting empty words.
Yes I did read every word ... And normally, in scripture where God gives a message to a prophet/priest to relay to mankind, that priest says . "thus saith the Lord"!
In the verses you gave to us, there is no such directive.
YES there are many things which it would be wise to do; which are not mandated such as ... "You MUST tell your wife each morning that you love her" This would be a wise thing to do! ... But, does she demand it be done?
When playing devils advicate, any statement can be argued against.
Ten Commandments found in Exodus Chapter 34:14
You must worship no other gods, for the Lord, whose very name is Jealous, is a God who is jealous about his relationship with you.
Seems to me he wants your worship and him alone....
Seriously? You worship him to get your wishes done? Could you please explain what you are doing wrong? Have you ever tried to wish away hunger or world conflict? Either there is something seriously flawed in your philosophy or there is something seriously flawed about your idea of a god.
Emily - I guess you are beginning to enter into an argument sooner or later. However, I prefer keeping away from this crap. Arguments lead you nowhere...
Now, since you finger-pointed my perspective about God, all I said was something I believe-in. If you claim to have better viewpoints, do share it with all of us over here....
That's an interesting reply. I only noticed your post because you claimed that in exchange for worship you had your wishes granted. I am simply unsure as to why such a powerful guy with a powerful god wasn't doing more for humanity.
Emile R - I never said I had my wishes granted. Just said we worship with the same intent. However, it's God's wish to make it or break it... Anyways, that's what I always thought and still do......
Why don't you chime-in with your perspective or you just like to nudge others...., huh!
My perspective is that if there is a consciousness beyond our understanding, that consciousness could care less about petty human desires. And any philosophy that expects it to isn't viewing reality for what it is. And, any philosophy that thinks they can curry favor with a power great enough to effect change simply by praying for it shouldn't ask for personal gain when others are so obviously suffering.
The much awaited response. Thank you!
Though, I am still not much convinced with you,
still I respect your views..
Interesting... if it's beyond our understanding then who or why is it in your consciousness. How can you be conscious of something beyond your understanding. What would lead you to have this perspective?
It is quite possible that I have this idea because I'm crazy. But, it makes sense to me. From an eternal viewpoint, how long is our lifetime? Even if you spent a lifetime in intense pain, what does that equate to divided by infinity? The length of time you are irritated by a hang nail?
I'm not attempting to negate the horror or suffering people endure, but if there is a consciousness that does not work within the parameters of time I would think our idea of needs would be viewed in an entirely different light and our idea of wants would be childish and petty. And if any portion of our consciousness moves forward we would understand that, in time.
But, I don't believe unique souls makes sense from an eternal viewpoint, so I'm not sure how much we may know from an individual perspective once we move forward.
I suppose I'm of the mindset that if God exists that is simply the life force of the universe. Not a personal genie or a father figure. It just is.
This idea that there must be something wrong with God in order for him to desire to be recognized and worshiped for all his achievements.
That concept, that desire has taken place in man's society for a very long time. When a builder builds something especially significant or spectacular do they not want to be recognized for their achievements? When a musician creates music that is accepted around the world do they not want to be praised for the efforts they have made?
So, in your estimation, the nature of God mirrors the nature of man; in that God wants and needs our worship? Doesn't that trivialize the entire idea of a Creator? Wouldn't a being so smart, and so powerful, as to create a universe be so far removed from our way of thinking as to not be in need of our worship?
Think about it Spanstar. If you looked at the level of evolution, intelligence and understanding between a human and, say, an ameoba....If we 'designed' an environment for them to exist in would it matter to us if they appreciated it? If we ensured that this environment contained everything they needed to support their daily needs would you care if they worshiped you?
What about a fish tank. Do you care what the fish think of the whole process? Does it matter?
If a Creator exists...if that Creator wanted us to worship it I would be very uncomfortable with what that meant.
How is it that we are always blinded by what we perceive is wrong with others and ignore the very thing we ourselves are doing.
What parents do not wish that children adored and admired them?
What couple does not wish that there mate respected, and adored them?
Unless we ever show something that we are doing is better than God we have a lot of nerve judging.
Who is judging Spanstar? I simply think it would belittle the idea of a Creator to think it was petty enough to think on such a level. The need to be adored, worshiped, admired or in any way, shape or form to be recognized for any achievement is brought about by insecurity.
I don't want to be adored by my son. I don't really need to be admired. I want him to view my parenting skills as critically as is humanly possible. I want him to recognize the things he percieves as missing the mark and work to do a better job when raising his kids. I want him to love me for who and what I am. I would hope that he could see that I always did the best I could, but also remember that no one is perfect.
As to couples; the same applies. Love is a form of respect. But, it is a respect through acceptance of the individual. Anyone who wants, or needs, their mate to put them on a pedastal doesn't know how to love. It's assinine to expect people to turn a blind eye to flaws. We all have them and to adore someone does them a grave disservice.
There is a clear difference between God expecting/demanding worship and the love from a spouse. I don't know about your family, but I don't demand worship from my wife and she doesn't demand worship from me. I don't demand worship from my children, I just try to earn some respect.
Demanding worship is something a narcissist would do. And narcissist have a terrible character flaw.
Why can't we judge someone more powerful then us? Are we not allowed to judge the leaders of countries?
Please tell me you are not serious?
I have never heard an builder upon completion of a building say, "Praise me or burn in hell". If they did we would recognize they have a very serious character flaw. As a designer I have pride in my work and sometimes I even am surprised by my own work. But, I've never told people to gather and clap at my perfection. You're not seeing the problem with this character flaw because you don't want to.
People are egotists by nature. That's why you think a god should be one too. Well we agree. The god of the bible is an egomaniac.
I think that should make you wonder about your god. To me a prefect being is beyond needing anything let alone the worship of it's children. Do you want your kids to worship you? Do you tell them if they do not they will suffer for eternity? If so I would say you are nut case. I dare say you would agree with me if one of the other people here said they wanted their kids to worship them or be whipped and scolded with boiling water if they didn't..
I dare say you find such a human repugnant. But yet you worship a god that is said to do exactly that, and you find excuses for it.
It is simply amazing to me.
You're not understanding.
Apparently we have proven to God we are less than what he created in the things that we do, think and say so we are already on our way to hell. But to demonstrate that he still cares and loves us there is a way out of this predicament which is to recognize what we are sinful and to be grateful that his very own son sacrificed himself so that we can see the love of God. Now get this we can completely ignored his offer and wait for the end to see who's right.
I am very sorry that you consider yourself so sinful and flawed that someone had to die in order for you to think you were worthy of love. But, that isn't really unconditional love, is it?
Love me, or suffer the consequences? Does that work on this plane of existence Spanstar? What would you do if someone walked up to you and said 'Love me or die'. What would you think of them? What if they said 'Love me, or I'm going to torture you for the rest of your life.' Would you worship and adore that individual or would you call the police?
Unconditional love does not necessarily mean that overrides justice. A parent can love their child unconditionally but if that child is out in society robbing brutalizing people should they simply turned a blind eye?
The scenarios you present go on all the time in the relationships such as husbands beating on their wife, wives poisoning their significant other. Stores, banks being robbed.
These things go on day after day, year after year and we talk about judging other people, beings we sound like fool.
You do have a flair for the dramatic. Or maybe you live in a really bad neighborhood. Your desire for retribution is in conflict with any possibility of spiritual growth.
You failed to answer her question. Would you think it a reasonable request if someone said love me or I'll kill you a most painful way? I suspect that if this person had power one might pretend to love until they could get away. Or would you actually love someone who basically holds your life for worship?
LOL! Could believers be more deceiving when they come up with reasons such as that? The vast majority of people on the planet don't do those things, Spanstar, it is only a very tiny minority who are violent criminals. It's completely ridiculous to base ones moral and ethical values on them when the rest of us would not consider doing such things.
And, even within that tiny minority of violent criminals, you'll still find their parents love them unconditionally, unlike gods, who will go to extreme lengths of punishment for minor or irrelevant offenses.
Who is not understanding? You think that because we don't agree we don't understand? It's because of the deeply flawed personality trait of the God in the bible that one has to question if such a God exists. If it doesn't make sense that a God would ask for worship then maybe the concept of God is man made.
What offer? No one has offered me anything. I only hear what Christians say and have to wonder at their sanity. Did they get the word straight from god? No. They just believe because some book says they should and they are too scared to do otherwise.
I'll t ell you what. There is nothing to be saved from except the delusion of your god.
There now. You heard it from me. Do you believe me? No? then what makes you think the word of a Christian carries any weight?
Tell god to tell me what he has to say himself. And forgive me for not taking your word for it.
This is an admission that god screwed up - yes?
Didn't turn out as planned, god-in-training.
Maybe that's why made out of clay, so can start all over again but this time mo' betta'?
Good question -- the nature of reality: few are the minds that reach so high, fewer still who go beyond. Why would a perfectly good question need/want an answer to complete itself?
I would shake your hand just asking the right questions. You are on the right road.
You are both the question you ask, and the answer you seek.
@ptosis, great question.
My current understanding, after more than half a century of deep study (ranging from Christianity, Scientology, Buddhism, Judaism, Kabbalah and back to Christianity), tells me that God merely created children. The exact purpose or activities, I don't know.
Genesis 1:26 says that God created "man" in his own image and likeness. Well, God is not Homo sapiens.
Genesis 2:7 says that God created "man" again, but this time from the dust of the ground. This is biochemical man -- Homo sapiens.
Thus man has a dual nature -- immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh.
Genesis 6:3 emphasizes this point when it says that man is "also" flesh. God won't forever strive with man, because when His children reawaken (salvation) they will no longer need their temporary bodies.
From everything I've been able to gather, it seems that the great "fall" was ego. Ego seems to be a physical pseudo-self -- a construct built of dichotomies like good-evil, right-wrong, generous-selfish, wisdom-stupidity, confidence-doubt and more.
Awakened spirit (children of God) operate from the viewpoint of perfect good, right, generosity, wisdom, confidence and more. These perfect forms (what the Buddhists call "paramitas") do not contain even a spot of imperfection. Their confidence (faith) is pure and without a spot of doubt. This is the viewpoint of miracles and perfect forgiveness. This is the viewpoint of creation, where Peter was able to step out of his storm-tossed boat onto the unsettled Sea of Galilee to stand before his master.
The object is not to worship God for the sake of worshiping Him blindly. The point is to awaken ourselves, but we cannot do that so long as we hold onto our ego-selves. Ego needs to die. And that is far easier said than done. It took Gautama Siddhartha many lifetimes to accomplish that.
Is this a quantum God that doesn't exist without observers? I THINK U WILL FIND THAT ITS WE EXIST CAUSE OF THE OBSERVER
No it isn't. It is speculation based on an interpretation of the double slit experiment, which is not the same thing. By the way, in those experiments no conscious observer observed anything.
THINK U WILL FIND ITS THE CAT IN A BOX EXPERIMENT..
Think you will find that is the uncertainty principal. The cat in the box experiment was not an experiment. It was a hypothetical example and originally meant to show how absurd the interpretation of QM is.
In the macro world the cat is either dead or alive. The example was to show that in QM IT SEEMS that until do the measurement the object you are measuring is in a superposition. A cat is dead and alive at the same time until you find out which it is by opening the box. It does not mean you decide which it is by observing the event or that you determine what the state is by looking.
The cat is just an example of how odd the quantum is. QM does not relate to the actual state of a cat in a box. The superposition seen in QM is not active in the macro world, that is stated in the Copenhagen interpretation itself. It only exists in the micro world where cat;s don't exist and observers can't really observe anything.
Observer driven reality is not science. It is a misinterpretation of science.
SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT,BUT I SEE IT AS WE ARE IN THIS STATE BECAUSE WE ARE BEING WATCHED,AND THAT THIS IS NOT REALITY,SPACE/TIME AND ALL YOU KNOW AND SEE..
Hello ptosis, God indeed made men for Him.. Just as They are one in Him (God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit) so are we in HIM - in His image & His Likeness. The Holy Bible says this. And we must all Believe. We were made for His Glory. ,, He does not forget that He had created us for Him . .. but we who are just dust forget this that we were made for HIM .. only for HIM .. so He owes our Worship and Praise all the TIME..
I like the 'body in christ' thing. My problem is the image of a old man in flowing robes etc - I think the whole Gestalt is limited in such images.
If the universe is one entire entity and everything in it is related - and the illusion of time-space appears as if we are all separate but is really a point like universe - then yeah - I feel that everything is a body cell and maybe the skin cell on the bottom of my foot is connected to the whole body - but the skin cell is not aware of the entire body as a whole.
Like a flock of birds in unison -
General Relativity says that gravity and acceleration are indistinguishable from one another, hence we are all in 'free fall' and the earths surface is accelerating up towards us.
This is something we are not required to believe, but we are all free to understand it or not.
In other words, the facts of our world are there for us to freely accept or not, not like someones personal belief system or a book written by men eons ago that is forced upon us to accept.
What an egotist he must be. I pass. An egotistical god isn't worth worship.
FAZ KARN: Yelling at all caps doesn't make you righter, just as pushing the keys harder on your PC will not make it unlock itself. I bet you repeatedly push the walk button to try to make it go green faster. Or tail gate instead of passing to make the car go in front of you speed up.
In the double slit experiment, a single photon interferes with itself.
In the double mirror experiment a single photon is in two places at one time - or - some say that the future influences the past - I cannot link my own hub but I suggest listening to the audio books
Decoding Reality: The Universe as Quantum Information by Vlatko Vadral
The Age of Entanglement: When Quantum Physics Was Reborn by Louisa Gilder
A lot of stuff is confusing - it even hurt the brains of the smartest people out there. So it's natural for us common folks to be confused.
Don't need a sentient being observer to create reality (ouch- headache) the only reality is interaction (snap - my brain just exploded)
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