Jesus or paul who has had bigger impact on christianity...

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pisean282311posted 11 years ago
Whom to you think has had bigger impact on christianity....critics of christianity say jesus has been used as concept by early christians but paul provided the necessary thrust and structure...your comments?
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Seems to me that if by name only, Christ has probably had more impact. Christianity is based on the works that Christ did. The words he spoke and the resasons that he came are the reasons that Christianity exists. Paul was the messenger of Jesus. He had quite a few prominent messages; but Christ is the reason for Christianity.
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  bluebirdposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  CHRIST IS OUR SAVIOR. He is the one who lived for us and died for us. "Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed." Isa 45:24
  "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Romans 14:11.
  SUMMARY: Paul was a great man because He delivered God's message. Christ is Savior and Lord forever, He is the Word of God and our Great Creator and Lord.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yesss!!! You lost me at Jesus was creator though. He is the savior, the word, and lord. The father is the creator. The Father is above Jesus, the same in spirit/mind. They agree seamlessly
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  bluebirdposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  John 1 In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made that was made.
  Jesus is the Word of God. God the Father created all things through Jesus Christ: "...and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in in God who created all things through Jesus Christ - Ephesians 3:9
  They are in complete harmony and agreement and very much agree seamlessly.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Self righteous drivel. lol
  
  What does this actually mean?
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Um, you left out a h u g e part of John I.
  
  "[He] was in the beginning [Himself] that all things were made//created through [Him] that no thing was fashioned is without [Him]. In [Him] is Life and life is the light in man."
  
  Creation is the ruach//word//breath of life. Gen 1:1 for reference.
  
  "Life was the light in man". What is that light? The human spirit which is the word//ruach//ohm, pneuma//breath. "And pneuma became flesh and dwelled among us". The spirit-human became flesh -as before in Genesis- which is why Moshiach is called the 2nd Adam//2nd Man. "And breathed into man the Breath of Life {word//ruach//ohm//pneuma}. Same life described in Genesis is reiterated in John1.
  John is describing this from a dual point of view, not a singular one.
  
  You are the word of Creator -in fact, everything is. Don't think so? Hmm, odd because even Jesus said you were. So did Moshe, Elijah and many others.
  
  James.
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  info121posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is an easy one. Jesus Christ is the reason for christianity. He lead the disciples and they followed. Therefore there is no doubt who had the main influence here. Paul has contributed greatly but JESUS is the name that Christians call upon...
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  Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I would express my opinion this way .... There is much that can be added to this statement, but I don't think that this can honestly be argued against.
  
  The Church that Constantine built chose to use the teachings of Paul to establish the direction in which Christianity would grow.
  
  I know that Paul professes that he encountered Jesus on the road to Domascas.
  I do not recall; if any of the twelve desciples ever mentioned Paul in their wrightings?
  
  I've often wondered why the church chose Pauls wrightings and not one of the 12 desciples.
  I think Pauls wrightings were chosen because him being a Roman, his wrightings conformed to Roman society better than all of the others.
  
  For this reason, I might say that Paul had a greater impact on what Christianity is today than Jesus did. What would the NT be like if 3/4 of it was not filled with Paul's teachings; BUT those of Matthew Mark, luke and John. I would imagine that they wrote much more than what was included in the canon. ???
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  u made some really great points...
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  Paul K Francisposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Some scholars believe that the following Jesus had during his lifetime was based on what he said and did, his healings and teachings, and this following dissapated at his death. A new following began as Paul and others preached the good news of who Jesus was and is - the Christ, and what God has done for them by way of the resurrection.
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  zampanoposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  My dear fellow.
  Why do you ask questions like that ?
  Is there a way that the answer to that question would change our lives ?
  What do we care if Jesus was used as an image and Paul wrote one epistle or two?
  How will that affect the ozone layer ?
  I can understand that rethorical games like these can help exercise our minds, sort of keeping Altzeimer away for a while.
  Let's not forget something very important :
  Here and now boys!
  and the rest is only history.
  I may be wrong, but I'm obsessed by the present and sometimes I dare imagine the future.
  and anyway, the answer to you question is in the question itself. Christianity.
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  Paul K Francisposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, the here and now! I think that is part of Paul's message. Or that may be just a part of this Paul's imagination. Have a great day.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Without Moshiach there would have been no S//Paul an apostle.
  And without mass marketing since the 14th century, there would be no Christianity.
  So, neither Moshiach nor S//Paul has had a bigger impact on Christianity.
  Marketing has had the most impact.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Slyly changing the question, so as to add your fancy words
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  My Reply:
  
  Hmm, looks like it was answered perfectly regarding both men -and the summary of impact itself. Yes, nothing speaks sly like directness and honesty.
  
  "Nine, corner pocket. Game over." Good to see you, as always, Miss Genaea.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hiiii! Since the game is "over" there is a winner. Since you made your shot, do you feel that the winner is you? No S//Paul the apostle without Jesus? Hmmm. Where was Jesus when Paul was converted? Where was Paul, when God put his plan together? Paul was a vessel, first con; and then pro. Many came before and many have come since. Jesus is the total reason for Christianity. He is the reason we have a chance at all. However, it depends on your relationship with the father. I guess some believe that their own methods are sufficient for knowing the truth. I just go with observations from the bible (the truest truth I know). Yes, I know how you feel about that.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good one. "truest truth"
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why THANKYOU!!!
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No problem, I see it as potentially making the top ten list of silliest contradictions I've read on these forums.
  
  And the competition is fierce.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  See? You have the right to believe as you wish
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Are you under the impression that some one is attempting to prevent you from believing nonsense?
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I thought that you felt as if some were trying to deny you your rights. I know my rights are protected by all sorts of laws. You and I obviously believe differently. We both are within the realm of our rights. Thanks for your concern though. I do appreciate your protection.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No problem. Far as I am concerned - you can believe whatever nonsense you wish. Jut don't be surprised when people point out how ridiculous it is.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  As long as those rights don't include disrespectfully knocking on peoples doors to tell them they're going to burn in a lake of fire if they don't embrace the zombie Jesus.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And there, we agree!!! that's how ya do it!
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And, the right to understand things so I don't need to believe in them.
  
  Beliefs are merely a lack of understanding.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  and ditto to you too!!! I understand that you have no beliefs. Maybe that is the issue between the two of us.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Issue is an understatement, tragedy would better describe it.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, tragedy between the two of us. No belief, no stand-point. Yes, that is the issue. But I can handle it
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There's a good scientist: observation without practical experience.
  The truest truth known to Einstein was no different than the truest truth known to Constantine, Saul, Kahlil Gibran, Marty McFly, Alice of Wonderland, Aimee Semple McPherson, John G Lake, William Graham, Smith Wigglesworth, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Mother Theresa -even Solomon Grundy and Capt James T Kirk... Yup, the pendulum of Theos. One side is mental masturbation of sensation, the other side mental masturbation of equation. No experience, no practical application, of the observance, but just enough gobble-goop, woo-woo-la-la, ooh-ahh, woo-hoo, to keep the ego//ha-satan empowered. Keep observing! Someone has to, right? Seems to be the same Road as S//Paul. And, hey, I will not stand in your Way, that is a sure promise.
  
  James.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  My reply is total confusion regarding your post, as usual When you say, "no practical experience" you leave the impression that the words in the bible don't "work" when put to use. That is absolutely false. I know that you know better than that. I know you don't worry about the woo-la-la, but that does not negate the truth. To turn away AFTER having experienced, causes some solomonity. The bible contains wording that lives. It has crossed all barriers and changes lives daily. This life is hard though. I mean, who wants to be called an idiot for believing fairy tales? But the practical rewards are immense. Love, joy, peace, lonsuffering, gentleness, etc. walking around in darkness??? Me??? Nope my path is well lit. I see what I need to see. My "answers" come from God. He is not "holding in his pocket" the secrets of life. Each one of us has a different secret. It is whispered by the same entity. But there is a method to the madness. He leaves none of us w/o direction. But we must follow the path to him. He says what the path is. Knowing him personally is paramount. He whispers to all of his children. Jew, Gentile, Catholic, Baptist, Muslim...etc. All of his children behave, or long to behave as Jesus. This info is in the bible. I'm not sure where ELSE it is, but he offers to ALL so I know there is no bible ONLY clause. God is creative. He knows who needs what.
  You can't get more practical than that.
  9ball WHAT???
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Many of those children can only 'long to behave as Jesus' just long enough to get to them to the next morsel of food.
  
  That info isn't in the Bible.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Everything you said afteris mental masturbation and not a lick of practical experience -nor ability to apply practical experience methods to that word salad. So, there it is simplified for you.
  Now, back to the only part that made sense.
  As a former bible quoter and teacher, will tell you emphatically -and not just myself but countless [committed//zealous] believers and former believers {note I am neither} can testify- that no, the words in the bible do not work when put into use. Unless, of course you care to put them to the test, as the good book says to do, yes? Here is the first test to prove//disprove "the words in the bible work when put to use":
  In all translations -Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew- the word: die means to stop breathing; to no longer having the breathe of life; dead in body and mind; no longer among the living; in the grave; buried, rotted; dust; no longer existing; ended; perished, etc.
  
  So, the test is simple: prove these words work either by quoting, memorizing, reciting them -else by practical application of the statement.
  
  James.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Spiritual death is of the worst kind. Though I know that you have never considered that. You know that Jesus spoke/taught using parables. Never die, is a soul-phrase. The soul can die while you are speaking. From the mouth is life or death. Remember??? If you believe in Jesus, your soul is "alive" forever. The bible does promise eternal life; yes???
  As for your second "practicality" sin-sick souls can be healed by just one touch (think spiritual here). Some souls are in "sick" stage, and not quite dead. Jesus was/is a MASTER at verbiage. And he knows just what he is talking about. He is ALWAYS right. You??? Well, you just are not "old" enough
  Practical was Jesus' middle name. lol
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  First, please stop lying -even inadvertently. The text says: die in body. The human spirit cannot die, as it is not a mortal thing. To be "spiritually dead" is to be dead//dieing in body//mind already, even though one is still breathing, because the exact test I mentioned is not being executed. Is that irony or parody Making stuff up is a lie -and the "Lord hates, above all things, a split tongue" yes? The soul is the mind, the spirit is the spirit, the body is the body.
  
  EVERY translation says: die {meaning body}. The spirit lives forever because it is the power of Creator --and you cannot say it is yours, because it is not.
  
  Again, all I see is masturbation of the mind. Spewing memorized words, which you have clue what they truly mean. Is it really sooooooo bloody difficult for a believer to follow through on their statements, without diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain; without deflecting to "the bible says" or "god is this and that"?
  
  The test is simple. And according to you the text is powerful, effective, whatever. So, put the word to the test. Otherwise, as the text says, you are a "clanging symbol" aka a noisemaker. Nothing more or less.
  
  There is no argument, no way to weasel out or blah-blah back at me. I am not arguing. I am asking you to prove your own words from your mouth//keyboard. That's all. Or will you yield, call it checkmate and end this nonsense of "god this, god that" when you have no bloody clue about anything "god is or is not", just like the rest of the believing // non-believing and post-believing text worshipers?
  
  James
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  James!!! Oh James!!! You have a looong robe, don't you??? Is it black with a hood???
  The text SAYS die in body? Hmmm. When I Googled, "die in body", I got a singing group. (Some of your ABBA buddies???) . I did not get a bible quote. Please send me your script bk/#. Seems like you are TRYING to cloud the issue. When u send the script, I will translate for you, you have lost the ability . The irony is illustrated in the fact that you are a former teacher of God's law. How many times??? Are there 7? 14? 21? Or more?
  You made me laugh with your spirit soul mind "performance" but it does not fly James. Or whatever they are calling you these days. To me, soul and spirit are interchangeable. God lives in the soul, which should direct your actions. But you threw the mind into your mix and you "threw" me. Are you not connecting the brain to the mind where thinking takes place??? Hmmm what automatically processes is "let this mind be in you..." (To me, I still pass. I want to think like Jesus). Text, for sure, executed. The bible promises death of body to all cept a few. LIFE to all with faith in Jesus. You masturbatin'??? Get your tissue! You are "SPEWING" something. Knowledge of God, it aint!!!
  Difficult for a believing non-believer to follow thru on spiritual matters period. Spiritual takes faith. Not thinking. See??? And I just KNOW YOU did not say "diarrhea of the mouth "
  You should STOP deflecting to the bible. You are digging a hole for yourself. Death comes from the mouth, remember. You must've forgotten that I said that
  Clanging symbols??? I have been waiting for you to stop that racket.
  You KNOW who I am.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So, that is a NO then on the test? Ha!
  Figures, just another chariot-to-heaven chaser.
  You are essentially an atheist with Hope. lol
  
  Hebrew//Aramaic: to die; perish : mûth or moot[h].
  In the sentence//verse quoted this is the translation:
  "..whomever believes on me shall NOT die//perish//be destroyed in body [mûth] but have eternal life [living, existence, immortality]." "For the wages of sin is death [mûth]". ""Life and death [mûth] are in the power of the tongue" . "And they shall not taste death [mûth]. " "And death [mûth] passed over them".
  
  The same text, regards the word "die, death, dead, dieing" as the same thing -mortal, physical not spiritual. And the same words regarding immortality, eternal life refer directly to the body. Why? Because it was the body that died -or began to decay- when Eve first indulged Reason//Ego and continued until she was dead -in body.
  also, these words are said by the witnesses to the 3 teenagers who were cast into the furnace by the madman Nebu, when they did not mûth [die] nor were their clothes the scent of ash or fire, and countless other places "in the bible".
  
  For the rest, regarding Paul, here is a very interesting excerpt:
  
  James
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And you guys don't understand why your religion causes so many fights? If this was the dark ages, one of you would already be tied to a stake with the flames a-lickin'.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Praise God for Jesus!!!
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That would probably be me.
  There are worse things, though, than being tied to a stake, I suppose.
  But, thanks -again- for the redundancy.
  
  I am not sorry my words debunk your myth, Marcus, of Hell, Fire, Brimstone for all eternity {which is your fuel to disbelieve and their fuel to believe}. Parody never had it so good. No wonder why your religion cannot stop any wars, causes internal conflict and kills women and steals the joy of innocent children.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No internal conflict here Jim Bob. I have stopped multiple wars myself and not killed any innocent children to boot. Dear me.
  
  But you may be right that there are worse things than being tied to a stake. If the wood is damp, I Understand the smoke gets you pretty quickly.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah right.
  Multiple wars, you say? Show me!
  and yes, you have killed innocent children with your actions just as any other has by neglect and by indoctrination into these ridiculous belief//non-belief systems. Like the present American two party system. Same lies told different ways. When you stop lying -no wait- stop being intellectually dishonest- I might have reason to consider or remotely believe you. Interim you give me word salad or rhetorical questions. You and Genaea, to me are like Mr Smith from the Matrix. You all look and sound the same. Machines, robots, defunct genetic programs with no purpose but to persist on being purposeful. Yes, you said it correctly, smoke and mirrors.
  
  Dear me...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  LAWL
  
  How little you know yourself. The day you show me instead of preach at me is the day I listen. Attacking me because I don't believe the nonsense you spout?
  
  This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, if you are going to ignore my post then yes! No, on the test you threw in a hodge-podge of script (I think you named it word salad) to prove your point, but what point have you proven??? The death of the body is promised to all. No! the soul never dies,UNLESS, God is not there. Your soul, w/o God is dead! But I am sure you ALREADY know If you have FAITH (notice I did not say knowledge) in Jesus, you NEVER die. I mean your soul never dies.
  RIGHTFULLY DEVIDE and you MAY get somewhere with your understanding of truth.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I read your post which was littered with more word salad and gobble-goop, memorized whatever. You are still deflecting. If the words in your bible is that powerful, take the test and provide practical experience to everything it says. Maybe that is the problem, you [plural] keep trying to weasel out of one simple thing: practical proof of the words you worship. I have proven much and you have proven it for me. So, thank you.
  Really? Show me where it says this -and back it up with two or three witnesses, as any testimony must be validated. Your spirit without Him does not exist, because your spirit is Him. Duh. It is not "your spirit" which you think goes to some happy place. That is the irony of your beliefs. Because the very book you worship says this and you ignore it -as well as many other important things. Oh, you love the "idea" of the message in it, but refuse to actually do the message in it. Remember: hear the word, do the word. and again, the word is in you both to hear it and the ability to do it -without excuse. Oh, and you cannot use the word Faith because you have no idea what it means.
  
  Shakes head...
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It is appointed for man to die once. Baam!!! in Hebrews. I need no witnesses. The word is witness enough. Read your bible and RIGHTLY DEVIDE before refuting. Will you please atop trying to recruit followers from Christ in my presence. We will have none of that!!! Good day!
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh!!! And everyone has a spirit. But as you are always so swift to display, not all spirits come from God.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So something else has the power to make spirit? Really? Show me!
  What else has the power to be or make spirit that it can say it does not come from Creator?
  As I just told Mr Knowles, you believers //non-believers all look the same to me...
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And you Sir, are a different species altogether indeed. God made everything. The angel that was thrown out of heaven was the first spirit gone bad. And there were many behind him. And still, they continue to fall. Only God can manufacture spirit. We ALL were born with it. But not all of them lean toward the will of God. No God in spirit; dead. Faith in Jesus; life forever!!! Do you understand now? Or is your "mission" not complete???
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed!
  When my mission is complete, you will know -unequivocally. I promise.
  
  Another lie:
  Retraction: You just debunked yourself and that lie of other spirits.
  
  Hint: No spirit = dead, for humans, that is.
  Why? Pay close attention: "God is spirit..." Not god is A spirit, no no. He is all spirit. Not multiple spirits. There is only one God, right? Which means there is only one spirit. Why? Because god is spirit and there is only one god. Is the spirit divided? No, there is no division nor shadow of turning in him. The Spirit is Truth. Since there is only one spirit, undivided, there cannot possibly be a spirit gone bad. To say otherwise nullifies Creator being spirit, the only one who can manufacture spirit and further claims he is divided and therefore not the truth.
  
  Faith in Jesus yields nothing. You cannot put your faith in someone else to get a reward for yourself. That is stealing. The penalty under law for stealing to the Hebrews was death {noted again by the two thieves hanging next to Moshiach at his murder. Build your own testimony, your own faith-seed and then you can have the fruit of life promised, else you are already dead { [moot[h], no longer existing, perished, extinct, finished, not alive or living }
  
  Have you fig-leafed -err figured- it out yet, Eve...
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Have you gone mad? to say that there is only one spirit, and that Spirit is God is the "safest" route to God that I have ever heard, and it is wrong. To be so afraid that you are not within his will; that you decide, he doesn't have a will is ludicrous. But I understand. People are afraid. They "make-up" things to feel better. Evil spirit exists. Now I see how you have manufactured your doctrine. It is comfortable for some to blot evil spirits in their minds as an attempt to know that they are with God, for lack of an alternative. Woo-woo-woo little butterfly, if you are not FOR him; you are AGAINST. What do you say is against? Nevermind, your answer will include your safeguards. Aint none. Go with God, or don't, those are your options. Oh that's right. You did not choose. God imposed himself upon you. Most of us are not THAT lucky the rest of us were given free will.
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  jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Evil spirits exist? Show me one, just one.
  No, it is the truth. There is only one Spirit and [He] is not divided [in himself].
  "For the spirit hovered over the fluidity//waters of creation"
  "that same Spirit that raised up Moshiach from the grave" and another
  "The Spirit testifies that we are the sons//daughters of Creator."
  "[He] is Spirit and those who worship must in {the same tone of spirit} and truth {else it is not worship, it is idolatry}."
  
  Moshiach does not testify on our behalf. It is Creator [Himself] who is spirit that testifies and proves [Himself] by the visible revealing of [His own] glory. Something you seem to keep skipping over. And you evoking Moshiach work or testimony -according to himself, in the bible- yields nothing for you. It makes you a thief. A lazy thief at that.
  
  I have many more examples "in the bible". Would you like them?
  where did I say safest route? The spirit is the only "route". If not, you are essentially saying everything Moshiach said and the Work is false...
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oooohhhh!!! Sounds like you just called my Jesus false. For shame!!! you are the most stiffnecked that I have EVER encountered. But I am not suprised.
  Was it the "spirit of God" that tempted "Ms Lady" in the garden??? Was it "the spirit of GOD" that tempted Mosha on the mountain after his 40 day fast? Was it "the spirit of God" that Jesus sent out of that kid???
  Get behind me James . I know what your response will be. We had this talk before.
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  Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just because someone says that not every story ever told about me is not true or some of them are taken out of context; does'nt necessarily mean they are saying that I do not exist.
  Just because someone says that I want you to do a particular thing and you refuse to do it; does not mean that you have disobeyed my command.
  Just because I say that Jesus wants you to do a particular thing, (according to my interpretation) and you do not, doesn't necessarily mean that you disobeyed Jesus' command.
  
  It does seem that for many centuries, there have been a lot of people reading words into Jesus' mouth that he probably didn't say.
  Every time this happened; credability is lost. Then others say that if what we say he said isn't true, then he must not be either.
  It was already this way before the book was written.
  It would be easier if there wasn't so many interpretations concerning what he meant when he said that.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Since this post responds to me, I would really appreciate understanding the point. I want to respond, but I am not sure where to go. I think you are saying that interpretation is the key factor? Are you equating, "putting words in Jesus' mouth..." to quoting biblical scripture?
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  Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I was responding to .."Oooohhhh!!! Sounds like you just called my Jesus false. For shame!!!"
  
  Sometimes when I express that I do not believe a certain thing about Jesus that the church teaches they respond as if I just blasphemed God. In their eyes I must be a Satan worshiper.
  Kinda like all of the Elvis stories. Just because I don't believe their story, ??? Doesn't mean that I didn't see the man.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah, no worries. Sarcasm for James we have a certain rapport. I am of the opinion that God can handle a little blasphemy. He reads the heart. I cannot.
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  Bubba Jones 111posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Duh! The don't call it Paulianity, bonehead.
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Neither, people and their perceptions make Christianity exist or not exist. So far it still exists.
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  A Thousand Wordsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Paul. Hands down. From observation, it seems that many christians pay more attention to what Paul preached than how Jesus acted.
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themadimadimadiposted 11 years ago
John. Lennon.
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  austinhealyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Beautifully said !
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2besureposted 11 years ago
Of course it was Jesus who had the greatest impact on Christianity. We are named from him...followers of Christ. Also, if there were no Jesus, Paul would not have had the supernatural encounter with God that changed his life. He was on the road looking for Christians to persecute!
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @2besure jesus barely had much of following in his life time....paul is credited to be chief promoter of jesus outside palestine and specially to romans...without paul would jesus be as well known as he is today?...no one knows ...may be,may be not....in end paul contributed heavily in spreading christianity....
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  2besureposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but Jesus was the author of Salvation! His life, death and resurrection was the message. If Jesus did not die and rise from the dead, Paul would have had no message and no following. Remember your question was, "Whom to you think has had bigger impact on Christianity" not who wrote most of the Bible or had the most followers.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  my question is still the same...yes without jesus what would have paul sold?...but without master sales man like paul , jesus might have gone horus way?....none can tell...though i got ur answer...according to u jesus's impact has been more than paul on christianity...
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  2besureposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  pisean282311, you are right. Paul would have nothing to promote without Jesus Christ. Believe me, Paul was the instrument God used to get his message to the world. Come on...we are talking about God! If you believe the God, then you know he could have used any other person or means to spread His message. He could have wrote his message in the sky, if he wanted to.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  thats ur belief...we are not judging here about god or no god...we r discussing two historical figures namely jesus and paul...
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Unless Paul was lying about Jesus rising from the dead, which is a far more plausible conclusion considering people don't rise from the dead, unless you're a huge George Romero fan.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There were a few instances where more than one person witnessed one raised from the dead. Jesus had already proven that he had power over death. Just as the blindness of not realizing that Paul had a "product" that he "sold" before he sold Jesus. We may see or not see what we want.
  Downey Jr said it this way, "Just cuz it's a theme song, don't mean it aint true!" LOL
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  But, we know that's a lie. Of course, you're free to present any evidence of zombism you wish to offer.l
  
  Yes, I understand there are fairy tales in the Bible.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  See? You may believe whatever you like.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but you're confusing me with believers.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That would be to YOUR benefit I heard the category in which you prefer to be placed. No mistake about it.
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  unitifyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Truth does not depend on anyone's belief to make it so. Jesus is truth and Jesus shows himself to whom he chooses.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Without doubt in MY head too.
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean that like the wind that exists, we do not need to believe that the wind exists because it will continue to exist regardless of our belief?
  
  What is truth?
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @ pennyofheaven
  In my last comment a quotation has been made "... In spirit and truth ," John 4:23.24 , now you are asking " what is truth?"
  
  The original text for " truth" in NT is word a l e t h e I a : TRUTH , as the unveiled reality lying at the basis of and agreeing with an appearance, the manifested , or the veritable essence of matter.
  The reality pertaining to an appearance.
  a l e t h e I a denotes the reality clearly lying before our eyes as opposite to a mere appearance , without reality ( Mark 5:33; John 5:33; 16:7 ; Acts 26:25 ; Rom.9:1; 2Cor.12:6; Eph .4:25; 2Tim. 3:7).
  Used with three distinctive meanings :
  (1) Truth as opposite to falsehood , error or insincerity (Matt.26:16: Mark 5:33; 12:14. 32; Gal.2:5. 14; Eph.4:25; Phil 1:18 ...more
  (2) Truth as opposite to types emblems or shadows (John 1:14, 17; 4: 23.24, John 14:6).
  (3) integrity, rectitude of nature (John 8:44
  Jesus saying "... I am the truth ," simply means I CAN'T LIE ... So.is. Every. Believer.
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So if...
  
  The original text for " truth" in NT is word a l e t h e I a : TRUTH , as the unveiled reality lying at the basis of and agreeing with an appearance, the manifested , or the veritable essence of matter.
  
  How can Jesus saying I am truth mean I cannot lie?
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @ pennyofheaven
  Question is : how can Jesus saying I am truth mean I can not lie ?
  Easy.
  Simply. Actually he has said " the truth ."When you have conversation with yourself, what do you say?Explanation is easy: a stone or a rock ( if able to talk) would say " I am stone,I am rock." BECAUSE that's what they are.
  Jesus the " spirit man" , lives in the body ( like anybody else ) is that "rock" ( trying analogy here) -- ROCK IS NOT SAYING i AM WATER. That is lie. If a rock says I am a tree , it would be lie .
  So. Is. The TRUTH. IT . IS . Only one thing : and it is always THE SAME " thing"
  - TRUTH .
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Perceived truth I understand but this truth changes. That he cannot lie will then make sense because he is perceiving truth as the spirit man in the body. To him that is his truth at any given time no matter the change. Truth that doesn't change I do not understand?
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That's correct 100% . You aren't only one not to understand the truth. We all - honestly to say - to state the "truth" , come to the point where the truth is truth understood or not, the fact is fact , because if change to identify otherwise becomes the opposite which is not truth -- so -- scientifically described as a" false statement " which is simply a " lie".
  Now, to accept the statement of the One who never lied , has never changed, has proven to be the the TRUTH, requires a higher level of "understanding " which is achieved by personal choice ; often based on personal experiences when you come to the point that " I know ." After that anything else doesn't matter, you can say what you want,agree or disagree with me, the truth is that " I know" . Period.
  In my case, this kind of knowing became an " absolute, " tangable ; it's popular name is " faith ."
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  ok
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Please, give feedback , help me to know more, I'm in process called " learning "
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  About?
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  About your last OK.
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  pennyofheavenposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not much to add to it. What I understood of it anyway. Seems you had a good grip on it.
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  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your kind words . You are helping me to learn and to know more, since this is my beginner's adventure . Have a nice day, and a blessed Thanksgiving .
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Paul Wingertposted 11 years ago
Paul had the biggest impact because he's the founding father of Christianity. Even though he never met Jesus, he's the spin doctor and promoter with a wild imagination..
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  Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  As I mentioned in an earlier post; I can't remember any of the desciples who's writtings were included in the bible ever mentioning Paul. ??? If there are any, And I hope that there are, and I hope someone would bring them to my attention. It just seems like he should have been confirmed by someone other than himself.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @paul u would be knowing...after all u r named after him
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genaeaposted 11 years ago
Oh be sure! If God had written the message in the sky, with his own finger, there would still be quite a few sects who will find a way to doubt. That's just the way it is.
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  A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, no writing of messages in the sky by any gods with any fingers. That's just the way it is. We call it reality.
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  genaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Reality it is Hey!!! You got one!!! Congrats
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zampanoposted 11 years ago
If it was not religion, it would be some other pretext.
Man is just a sort of neanderthal with a "cultural varnish". The brain is still the same and so are it's bloody kicks.
Well, of course I'm extrapolating but it should apply to a lot
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @zampano u have a point...
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Emily Sparksposted 11 years ago
Christ...........without Him there is no salvation..........Paul was just a faithful godly preacher. Christ is the Son of God.
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brotheryochananposted 11 years ago
Jesus went to the Jewish nation to be accepted or rejected by them that he is messiah and that was Jesus mission. Jesus was never called to be a christian or anything other than messiah, the anointed of God come to redeem his people. All they had to do was accept him.

Paul was sent to the Gentiles although Paul was a pharisee God will often put people in areas that they are unfamiliar with just to keep them humble i suppose, or get them into a state of teachableness.

Which has the bigger impact on christianity. Chrisitianity is all about Jesus, who is God incarnate and the spirit of God shed abroad in the hearts of His followers.

Jesus, hands down. Paul is a good instructor to the churches at that time and certainly we can learn from his letters, but its the spirit of Jesus that instructs christians.
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Michael-Milecposted 11 years ago
The Lord Jesus Anointed, never once mentioned " Christian" or Christianity .
His first and opening statement for His coming Is : " Blessed are those who know their spiritual need ; the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN I s theirs " (Matt. 5:3 )
Also :" Blessed are you poor; the KINGDOM OF GOD I s yours ( Luke 6:20 )
The Kingdom of God / the Kingdom of heaven interchangeably men's the same what Jesus, the Son of the Most High God came to establish .
Christianity ( christianism ) as well as Church, ( churchianity, churchism ) came to life as a man-- made tradition developed gradually , when the "movement of the Kingdom" was abolished ; the Holy Spirit dependency denied ; supernatural of God replaced by natural of man; philosophical explanation came to the picture, thus establishing a tradition to which confusion and disharmony we are witnessing today.
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
You might say that Jesus Christ is the foundation on which Christianity exists, whether he wanted a religion built upon it or not is another question entirely.
You might say that the disciples stood the outer walls.
You might say that Paul built all of the inner partition walls and the R.C.C. (326 AD) built the second floor larger than the foundation.
And each and every "Private" Interpretation that has been accepted or added to this foundation over the centuries are additional levels or stories (pun intended). It appears as if "Religion" is a gigantic upside down pyramid balanced upon the tiny foundation which Jesus built.
Just because we say, "In Jesus' name" at the end of a statement, doesn't make it so.
Jesus is the point of origin. Paul and the R.C.C. was the wind which blew religion in the direction that it went.
Was this the right direction? I don’t know! Only time will tell.
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  pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  wow...wonderful observation
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Michael-Milecposted 11 years ago
( who am I to approach you? ) just learning to walk the narrow road ...

@ pennyofheaven : you've provided one of the best comprehensive answer ...

@ info 121 : extensive and well satisfying, much to learn and to know...

@ jerami : much appretiated, comprehensive expanding knowledge to the matter.

My observation : the label itself (Christianity ) or the historical movement relevant mostly to human beings . The Divine is in the universe ,so is here. We are historical part of it, as those before and after us.
The God. The Lord Jesus Anointed . The Holy Spirit, eternal .

From here to eternity
Something matters the most ,-
- man, - human making the choice:
... " time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true ( genuine ) WORSHIPPERS will worship the Father in spirit and in truth ( reality );
for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His WORSHIPPERS .
G o d I s a Spirit ( a spiritual Being [also] ) and those who worship Him must worship Him
In spirit and in truth ( reality).

John 4: 23-24 , Ampl.
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Jeramiposted 11 years ago
Well, I betcha that if Jesus said that my black mustang was red ? When I look out the window at it, I ain't goina be black any more.
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