I refer in particular to the recent death of Margaret Thatcher in the UK. I come from a mining community in Scotland and heartily disliked the woman and still dislike her. There are many who do have reason to see this woman as a thoroughly unpleasant person who destroyed communities - there are people who are celebrating her death with parties. Personally I find this unnecessary and distasteful. However, some of the supporters of Thatcher, who obviously feel differently from me and view her time as Prime Minister as a good thing, are saying even although we disliked her, now that she is dead, we should all say something positive? My feelings are that, as said previously, I disliked the woman, so just because she's dead do I become a hypocrite and lie to myself and others just because it would seem to be a nice thing to do?
Hi Seeker7 - it's a difficult question..as she had such a public profile, there was always going to be debate about her legacy and since she provoked many peoples feelings by her actions - a big divide in opinion will remain. I agree that it is very distasteful to have parties over her death - there are so many other things going on in our world that people could highlight instead of wasting their time on pointless and awful death parties. I do not think it is wrong to dislike someone when they are dead - people will get reminded of a time when she closed the mines and made life miserable for many and these actions can still be felt today in many communities so I have sympathy for those who dislike her but to dance on her grave is a step too far. But who knows? Maybe she would have enjoyed this massive media circus and debate surrounding her death?
This would be a good Question to create Hubs from, as it is a good question.
My answer is this; No.
No one will ever feel bad or damage Karma by showing respect. Maybe not to the deceased, but to those who did love or care for the person who passed. I think it is hypocritical to say nice things about a person who we despised, or found to be bad.
A famous comedian Jonathan Winters also recently passed, and suddenly there were all of these people who Tweeted and posted how much they loved him... Unfortunately for Mr Winters suffered from mental illness most of his life, and was shunned from public view for many years, so it was surprising to see all of the accolades.
Finally, as the old saying goes; "...if you don't have anything nice to say about them, don't say anything at all..." truth has a way of coming to the surface no matter how much people try to "re-history" history, so don't feel as if you have to set everyone right about their misguided praise of M Thatcher.
Thanks Lilly, that's an excellent and very wise answer with a lot to think about!
I think it OK to say what you think between family and friends but to make your feeling known so publically is wrong. I think it is disgraceful the way people are behaving. Whether she was liked or not this must be causing her family an awful lot of grief and stress. They are the ones being uipset by this not Margaret Thatcher, she is beyond caring now.
Hi Rosemay, I agree with you, I think respect is needed and compassion for the family. Bereavement is hard enough without stupid people releasing records ('The Wicked Witch Is Dead') and having parties. I think from my own point of view because I detest the woman, I keep this knowledge, as you say, within my own circles, without adding grief onto the family.
I don't think we should be hypocritical about our opinion of someone, just because they died. Like you, I think actually celebrating her death is taking things a bit far - though I came back to central Scotland from Africa in the midst of her "reign" and was appalled at the havoc she had reeked. It's one of the reasons we promptly emigrated to Australia!
Yes we should always be nice and find something pleasant to say about the deceased. That being said... didn't Hitler have a cute little mustache?
You should always be respectful during the period between death and burial, out of respect for the family.
I say no, if you disliked the woman and felt that she was disrespectful in life to others, why should she deserve any respect now. Also, masking over her behaviour and some of the awful things she did to her citizens will create a false record of her life and achievements.
You've made a very good point Hollie and especially about 'masking over her behaviour'. I think that's my main point about the folks saying to find something positive about Thatcher even although she did nothing positive for so many - it's hypocritical. yet I do agree about having compassion for the family. As Rosmay earlier pointed out, it's really the family who are suffering because of this not Thatcher.
Sometimes, there is nothing nice to be found to say. I don't know that I would go to a party celebrating the death of a politician I hated (or anyone for that matter). And, I don't know how far I would go to make sure I voiced a negative opinion, outside of voting against the party she was a member of. It was the policies, not the person, which affected your life. Was it not?
Hi Emile, I wouldn't go to a party either celebrating her death, it's in very bad taste, ignorant and pointless. I have on a response forum said that I certainly wouldn't miss Thatcher and won't be shedding any tears, but that's as far as I feel I want to comment. Others on the response were saying to 'respect the dead' and find something positive - to me this is so dumb and just about as childish as the silly parties. I have to say I do feel sorry for Thatcher's daughter, Carol, I think this must be a very tough time for her right now.
As the policies - to be honest, in Margaret Thatcher's case, she was the policies and the policies were her. That's why eventually they booted her out.
Your comment about the policies is interesting. She was party leader? Can't they get booted out at any time by a no confidence vote? I admit, I know little of politics in your country, but I would think she'd still have to have backing from other politicians. We don't let them get off that easily. Maybe, our political systems are more different than I thought. Either way, I hope any damage done by her policies has long been corrected.
Hi Emile, she wasn't called the 'iron lady' without good cause and when at her most powerful I honestly don't think anyone had the guts to do anything about her policies. And yes, you're right there is a 'no confidence' vote, but due to all the shifting and sneaking around politicians do, they only use that when it's to their advantage and not before. For a long time, whether they agreed with Thatcher's policies or not, they kept quiet, because it suited their careers at the time to do so.
Yes she could have got booted out by her party, but the party is the party - she was giving them success, and most of them were wealthy so her policies didn't do them any harm. It was the common people who suffered.
Isn't it more about "us " than about " them?" If " I " like or dislike a person it is within me, to the dead -one won't matter much. It helps not to think about what " they " have done , even better not to talk about the dead ones. It helps me tremendously doing so, except to some around me it's suspicious , when not talking, but I don't care , becaus I do care for my health in first place .
Universal respect for the dead is idiocy. The measure of their life should be the measure of the respect given.
A poor and honest man gunned down by a maniac? Respect given.
A violent gang member gunned down by a rival? Screw him.
No respect for dead. Anyway they don't know about . None of them know what's going on , and a few ( alive, relatives,friends ) do care. As far as political " leaders" they do care for themselves, ther carrier while in office, why even to think or talk about them . . .
Hi Zelkiiro, you've mad a valid point here. If you look at all those 'celebs' and politicians creeping about trying to look sad, but not being able to get the smug look off their faces, it makes me sick! Mainly because many of them couldn't stand the woman and didn't have any respect for her when alive. Now that they've got a chance to be on show in front of the world's media, they'll be breaking their necks to get into St. Paul's first to get the best seats!
And yes, a poor and honest man does deserve respect the gang leader deserves what he gets.
Unless it's some evil-doer who's died perhaps the saying "If you can't say something nice about a person don't say anything at all" would be appropriate as concerns speaking on the departed. As to Mrs Thatcher, what's the connection between her husband and that horrid child molester Jimmy Saville or whatever his name was? It's all over the internet how she may have been covering for her husband's wicked activities. Could this be another reason for the celebrations? True or untrue you of course would probably know more about this, Helen my friend.
Hi Alastar, well wow!! I haven't seen these stories about 'Dennis the Louse' I'll need to look them up! I think I must have been hibernating over the weekend!! LOL!
Yes, I think you're right about 'if you can't say something good...' then just don't say anything. I know the level of feelings that are still around in the UK are so against her that obviously some people do feel they have to express them. Personally I don't see the point and it seems rather stupid and a bit sick, but I must be in the minority I guess, since the record released, 'The Wicked Witch is Dead' (a reference to Margaret Thatcher), has hit number 2 in the charts. This makes me feel very sad that people have been so trampled on by this woman that they feel the need to go to these lengths to show their dislike. But at the end of the day all that will happen is that some sleasy person will make money out of silly people buying the record and what is done is done, nothing is going to change what happened in the 80's and 90's - we need to move on now.
I'll look up the 'Dennis' thing though and let you know if I find anything. He was a heavy drinker I do know that much, but then being married to a woman who always wore the guy's pants inside our outside the home, maybe he took comfort in his whisky?
Death itself should be always respected, in my opinion, but people only deserve the respect they earn. While I will not party because someone died (other than, I don't know, terrorists or something?), I won't pretend I suddenly like the person either.
Hi anaonimuzz, I agree I wouldn't party - or buy the silly song that's been released either, it's a bit sick! But yes, for me as a person, I can't suddenly just change my opinion just because someone is dead, but as some hubbers have suggested, just keeping quiet out of respect for the family if nothing else, might be the best thing to do.
"I have endured what no one on earth has ever done before — I put my lips to the hands of the man who killed my son." Deeply moved, Achilles relents and returns Hector’s corpse to the Trojans. Both sides agree to a temporary truce, and Achilles gives Priam leave to hold a proper funeral for Hector, complete with funeral games. He promises that no Greek will engage in combat for 11 days, but on the 12th day of peace, the mighty war between the Greeks and the Trojans would resume.
Keep to the saying if you can't say anything nice about someone say nothing at all. You disliked her just go on your way. If anyone asks you about her just say you have no comment or say you didn't particularly like her and that's it. I bet you she's up there swinging on a star and absolutely delighted that she has caused such a stir. Hey, it's better than being totally forgotten.
Hi Rasma, LOL!!! Yes, she will definately be up there and enjoying every minute of being once again in the lime light - whether it's negative or positive! And yes, I agree with you, I think overall it's better just to say nothing at all, if for no other reason than out of respect for the family.
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