Are night terrors from the devil?
Some say it is psychological and some say it is from devil, like me. Hitler was a devil worshiper and he suffered from night terrors.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11277527I have posted a similar thread. However, there are MANY interpretations regarding the issue of night terrors. There are those who interpret it to be a state between being awake and sleeping. There are others who strongly insist that night terrors are psychological in origin, stemming from issues of the subconscious.
There are some who interpret the event of night terrors from a solely religious viewpoint. These proponents assert that there is some sort of demoniac influences as to why a person is undergoing night terrors. A few adopt a more metaphysical view, believing that night terrors are a result of whatever negativity is in that particular person's life. Yes, the interpretation of night terrors is as varied as the number of people. No one interprets night terrors alike.
Assuming night terrors are from Satan is like assuming every illness is brought on by Satan. Most illnesses are very well understood and curable as well as preventable. I can understand why people think these things were evil before they were understood, but understand the illnesses takes the mystery out of them, not to mention the guilt and stress. I know a 7 year old who's parents were very recently told that their son will lose his battle with cancer. Do we assume he or his parents did something wrong that let Satan in or do we assume he was simply unlucky? In the case of night terrors I've seen my kids suffer through them and what I've been told is they happen at a transition time in sleep. No need to include Satan.
This always has disgusted me when people tell other people that their child died or they are dying because their faith was not strong enough to save them. That's the lowest thing you could ever tell someone in this situation...If Satan can put evil thoughts into people's heads then I hardly believe night terrors are difficult for him. It is true that stress brings on night terrors and it is also genetic. That is why not everyone gets them. Stress feeds Satan and thus night terrors get worse with that. Science and the supernatural are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I was contemplating suicide when my night terrors were at its worse. And I know God will not give me more than I can take. So I got a deep sedative that broke the cycle of fear. I don't get night terrors anymore despite me no longer being sedated.
If it is psychological why have do I not have them again?What I don't understand is why does God NOT protect you completely from this horrible entity called Satan? Your God should know how dangerous it is to leave you unprotected....even for just a moment, from an all EVIL being like Satan. So why would you depend on such an incompetent all mighty God who leaves you on your own, while you slavishly worship and give Him credit....for doing nothing?!
It's because I live in a world owned by Satan. To be completely protected I can't get involved in everyday life. Jesus definitely wasn't protected from Satan when He died.
Jesus wasn't protected from Satan when he died? Wasn't it god's master plan for Jesus to die in order to sacrifice himself in the final blood offering for the sins of mankind? Had he not died, the sins of the world would not have been atoned for, would they not? So in which aspect was Satan present to screw up god's master plan? It sounds like he helped out.
He actually tried to thwart God's plan by saying it is not possible for one man to take on the sin of the world in the garden of Gethsemane. Then Jesus said with God all things were possible. When that didn't work Satan made sure Jesus suffered the worst suffering possible for a human being.
What part of everyday life are you not involved in?
The world(Earth) is part of the solar system, which is part of the Milky Way Galaxy, which is suspended in an infinite universe. It can't be owned by some ancient mythological character. Do you see how deluded and downright primitive this view is?
Have you heard of a condition called Paranoid Schizophrenia?
These are some of the warnings:
◦Becoming socially withdrawn
◦Mood swings
◦Being obsessed with death, dying or violence
◦Feeling trapped or desperate
◦Increased consumption of drugs (including illegal ones) and alcohol
◦Changing eating or sleeping patterns
◦Starting to get their affairs in order and giving away belongings
◦Saying goodbye to people in a specific way (as if they are never going to see them again)
Yet you claim He is the God of the universe? So it appears that the universe doesn't need God after all, as it was still running while He was dead, and unprotected from Satan. I feel sorry that you have become a victim of this scam, as religion preys on the minds of people like you and me, who are already suffering from emotional trauma.The world would not be owned by Satan if humanity didn't give him power. When I say owned I don't mean the planet was made for Him. He was chosen to be the world's leader.
I don't recall saying He is God of the universe. I believe the universe came into fruition because of the fight between good and evil. In other words, God and Satan are the cause of the universe together. I compare it to the atom. It cannot exist without the proton, which is positive, and the electron which is negative. God wasn't dead when Jesus died. God's existence was never threatened by Jesus being unprotected by Satan.
Do not feel sorry for me. I have the most precious gift anyone could ask for. I'm not meaning to be condescending but I feel sorry for you not to know the God of love and that you cannot seem to get over your emotional trauma.Just one small problem with your explanation: Atoms are real....your God is a childish superstition made up by ignorant, ancient goat herders. Of course you must know that?
However they are the same person....Gotcha!
That's probably because He never existed in the first place.
Who is more pathetic....the one who think he sees monsters under the bed, but knows that there are no such things as monsters? Or the person who sees monsters under the bed and thinks that the monsters are really there? Who is more likely to have a fighting chance for recovery? Honestly!
The evidence of God goes right over your head because you don't know how to interpret it.
Didn't I explain this? In the form of the Holy Spirit they are one but God was separate from Jesus, as in two entities, while in the flesh. Why else did Jesus give all the credit to God and not Himself? God can never die. He has no flesh to experience death.
Probably? Are you saying that there is a chance to you that God exists?
Think what you like.You mean god and jesus are two separate bodies united by one spirit? Why does god want a body?
God had to assume a body to come into this world.
Why? Your bible says he's come into this world without a body before, plus a God as powerful as you insist he is could do anything he wants.
When god is everywhere, why does he need a body "to come"? He is HERE. You said not one body but two, a 'god' body(that is always living) and a 'jesus' body(that died) and one spirit, didn't you?
How else was Jesus to preach the truth? Through a voice in the sky? If He had no body how could He have shown that He had defeated death by defeated sin? Without His resurrection we would never have know that! Jesus is God incarnate. He also assumed the role of the Son of God on earth. So when Jesus ascended into heaven He become one with God as the Holy Spirit.
So you mean 'jesus' is just the name for god's body on earth?
I agree that Jesus was a propagandist for your 'god', but he was not 'showing' anything by his death. The resurrection was a fake story invented by 'god' and his followers to cover up his failure and make more followers (compared to many of his other stories like Zeus this one was the most successful story till then) in which he succeeded.I never claimed that Jesus was a propagandist. If you believe the resurrection was a fake story then of course His death would mean nothing. I think the Jewish authorities would have proven that Jesus resurrection was a hoax if He did not rise from the dead. Guards were assigned to His tomb because there was a fear that Jesus' body would be removed and a resurrection proclaimed. The authorities had heard of the prophecies of His resurrection. Yet they remain silent. There are no writings denying He rose from the dead from any Jewish sources. I think Jesus followers would have gone into hiding and not be heard of. Who are they going to convince if the resurrection was a lie? If I told you Elvis was a live surely you'd want some proof?
Richard carrier actually covers this.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp … X4LvKvIWJwI'm sorry but Carrier lost me when he said, "The New Testament is full of s@@t."
okay, so ignore all of the things he included that back up that statement because you don't like the phrase he initially used.
Here's the thing. I listen to and watch Christian apologist videos all the time. I slog through Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort and many, many others - even when they're ridiculous and outright lie. Why? Because I'm interested in both sides and I want to understand their arguments. If I turned the show off ever time one of them said something I didn't like, I would never watch anything.
In other words, I find your excuse to be a poor one.Can't you give me a break-down of what he mentioned?
I did. Jewishness was in its death bed, so he sent jesus to make followers and he succeeded.
They tried and as they themselves were in trouble(under Roman rule and christianity was not the only sect developed in Judah) they couldn't. If people really wanted proof to believe the world would have been entirely different(effective propaganda). Gradually the Christians took over even Rome and nobody could challenge them.I think God would have made the whole world followers if that is what He placed the most importance on. In fact, imagine the followers Jesus would have gotten if He overthrew the Roman Empire!
Just clarify, did you mean Jesus' followers tried to go in hiding or that that the Jews tried to write about a hoax of the resurrection? If the former, if they wanted to hide then they most certainly would not have attempted to convert people to Christian because that brought them attention and persecution and death. If the latter, I hardly believe the Jews would have held their tongues. I mean, the Romans gave them their wish to put Jesus to death.
What I mean by proof is proof to those who knew Jesus, including those who witnessed His crucifixion, and to the authorities who knew Him. If they did not have that proof Christianity would have died then and there. And Paul did miracles in the name of Jesus and that is proof to many gentiles.
If it wasn't for Constantine the Christians would not have taken over Rome.It was not your god who gave us free will, your god wanted automatons who obey him unquestioningly. He wanted slaves not people who think. He wanted people to say his praises eternally.
The disciples and jesus were followers of your god, they were all part of the same plan. Why he was a threat, the same reason each Christian church vie with another.
Did your god told you personally all of what you claim here? No, Lucifer was not like your god to teach lies, he teach us to think logically not teach what to believe, like your god do. If you read with an open mind all that was written by the followers of your god, it is evident.
Read without prejudice you will understand that jesus was calling the gentiles just that [So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.]. He was using all the tricks up his sleeve to get followers. Because he thought he was special he didn’t have much respect either for jews nor gentiles. Your god is an angel, a conscious power hungry monster; when did I say he was not conscious or that he didn’t exist?
He would have made, unfortunately humans were no longer his puppets. Jesus eventually did, didn’t he, there by getting more followers that what he would have got if he had just over threw the Romans?
Jesus either died which would have made his followers work most diligently (they too were involved by your god in his conspiracy, why should he chose jesus alone), but I think jesus escaped and went to India. Either way Jesus left and the rest of the work was done by his followers, there was not much persecution at that time, the jews were not the overlords nor Romans bothered about various jewish sects.
The followers were the followers of your god, not jesus. They were ready to lie and all the stories we knew about jesus are from his followers only, that should tell something, shouldn’t it?
Don't turn it on me now. I'm asking you, did Lucifer teach you this wisdom and how did he do so?
Jesus mingled with the Gentiles and showed them compassion and obviously did not think they are inferior. He did not believe she was a dog; He was just using the name giving for gentiles to test her faith. He was showing that it doesn't matter if someone is a Gentile or a Jew, if they have faith in Him they will receive Him. Jesus often treated people in a certain way to demonstrate how great faith is. He wanted to see if she would continue asking Him in faith or just accept she was a "dog". And He praised her for her faith. She had humbled herself and submitted to the Lord and recognized she was not worthy. We have to do the same. He need to acknowledge that we will never received the Holy Spirit unless we acknowledge we sin and humble ourselves.
If my God was power hunger then He'd force the whole world to worship Him. It is Lucifer who is the control freak. The whole world is sold to him.
How can the attempt of stamping out Christian make more followers than overthrowing the Roman Empire? The Jews would have been sold. All of them would worship Jesus. They were doing it on Palm Sunday then they turned on Him when they realized He was not there to liberate them from the Romans.
I think extra-biblical sources would have mentioned a rumour that He escaped to India. Roman sources even mention He was crucified. Why would Jesus escape if He was so dead set on spreading His ministry? Peter was a disciple of Jesus and He suffered a horrible death. So there was persecution by the Roman doing the disciples' life time.
Christians believe Jesus is the same as God. They can't just follow God and not Jesus. Then they wouldn't have included Jesus in their ministry. They might as well have remained Jews. As for the stories only being from His followers, who else should have written about Him during His ministry on earth?Why not, I am as much eager as you to know how you know all this that happened in the distant past which no living human has witnessed.
Lucifer didn’t teach me, he taught mankind to think logically and he asked mankind to think instead of blindly obeying.
That was a lame excuse to justify the superiority he demonstrated. He treated people mostly like scum unless they serve his purpose. He wanted himself to be anointed by costly perfume while he want others to give all they have got “to the poor”, just like any other common preacher.
Except that your god does not have that much power and hence he uses lies. Lucifer? Nobody wrote books for him asking to worship him, that was ll your god’s doing. Lucifer do not need you nor your worship, it is your god who want that.
Overthrowing the Romans might make a few Jewish followers as was demonstrated by previous religions. It will also cause resentment against the rulers. So he played his cards right, he played the underdog and see how many followers he got.
Ahamadiya Christians says so and they have a tomb of jesus in Kashmir. It was not Jesus who was dead set on sacrificing his life but your god and he fooled jesus and that was why jesus cried out, “my god, my god why have you forsaken me?”
Is there any better way to spread an ideology than martyrdom, even communism derived strength from that. Again who said Peter was killed? Is there any record other than ‘tradition’?
The early Christians, his so called disciples , the early hundred or so people who spread Christianity was the followers of your god, not jesus. They were part of the conspiracy. It is evident by the fact that the “greatest follower” Paul had not even seen jesus. They were all working for your god, the liar.
Obviously, as jesus was not known outside his circle your god’s followers were free to make a martyr out of jesus and spread his religion.You give me your answer and then I'll give you mine. After all, I asked first.
Oh, so you believe the words of others who claimed to have taught by Lucifer without personally knowing him. Lucifer would love it if we ALL blindly obeyed him.
If Jesus really thought this Gentile was a dog He would not have said this:
"28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment."
Is healing a "dog's" daughter treating others like scum?
Who else did he treat like scum? Elaborate on the costly perfume thing. As for the rich man story:
A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"
"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."[/i]
Jesus had the same message in these two scriptures. Jesus knew that the rich man loved his wealth more than Jesus and one cannot inherit eternal life if one loves earthly things over Jesus. Luke 10 says to love the Lord with all your heart. That is the first commandment.
Jesus does not mean that we must make ourselves poor by selling everything. He knows we have daily means but we must put Him first above wealth. One cannot love Jesus and wealth at the same time.
Today many people would not choose to live off the charity of others and not earn money like Jesus did. They prefer to earn money; the more the better. That attitude cannot make one enter the Kingdom of God because the love of money is the root of all evil.
So you say the followers propagated lies on behalf of my God? How did God communicate with these followers? I'm not sure if you are away that when the world is under one government, i.e. the New World Order, everyone will be FORCED to worship Lucifer. Those tyrannical and evil people sing his praises or day long.
So if Jesus become king of his own empire that spanned across the world it would only attract a few Jewish followers. Let me remind you that the Jews hated the Romans. All of them would worship Jesus if He did away with the Roman Empire. Jesus would have gotten the maximum amount of followers if he ruled the world with an iron fist. As I said, the only reason why Christianity actually survived was because of Constantine and not because of Jesus.
I must have missed the memo, what Christians believe Jesus is in a tomb in Kashmir? Why would Roman sources document the death of Jesus then?? Now you go onto say He was crucified now. So did He escape to India or was He crucified? I now what it is like to say, "God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus had to die for the sins of man and to take on that sin. The punishment of sin is hell. Sin separates us from God. The definition of hell is the complete separation from God. It is an automatic thing. Jesus had to take on the burden of sin so that we could we released from it if we truly repent. The proof of the conquering of Satan and death was the resurrection. Without the resurrection, the apostles would not have preached about Him. Remember that Jesus is God, too, so God didn't just sit back and watch and not suffer with Him.
No, there isn't any reference to Peter outside of the Bible but my point was that Christians were executed. That's a fact. We have to ask ourselves why were Christians persecuted in the first place?
Paul had seen Jesus by astral travelling. Why would Paul be persecuted on behalf Jesus if he didn't know Him as the son of God? Why didn't Paul not make himself a cult figure with a religion revolving around Himself? If Paul knew nothing about Jesus, why even agree to spread the word about Him?
I think it's pretty hard to spread lies if you only show yourself to your followers? Of course Jesus was known beyond His circle. He was put to death by the Romans.I gave.
I never said Lucifer taught me, what I said is Lucifer helped/taught mankind sometime in the past how to think. Unlike your god, there is no spokesperson for Lucifer, neither is he here himself, nor he sent himself as his “son”. For all we know he might as well be dead (If Greek sources can be believed he was imprisoned by your god so it is probable that he being the less powerful one was never allowed on earth again). All our information is available from your god and his followers and they accuse him as a liar (but they too acknowledge that it was he who taught mankind to think, otherwise they would simply roam around naked as puppets of your god) but when we analyse the information we find that Lucifer didn't do any such thing and the all the lies and cruelty to mankind was meted out by your god only. So I am not believing anybody but seeing through the lies perpetrated by your god which anyone can see but unfortunately you do not see. So answer the question does your god personally tell you, or you assume or you believe someone else?
Why, don’t you give dogs food? He used her as an example, how people should beg to him. But the miracles are all tricks done by humans to trick fellow humans.
Is there any better way to get followers? Even now we can see that political parties use all these pro poor slogans during election times, because poor are in the majority. Jesus was using the same trick.
That is what your god wants, isn’t it, people obeying him, worshipping him and loving him above all else, above even their own kith and kin? Can he be clearer? Did Lucifer ask you to do that?
Yes.
That is what I asked you? May be “astral travelling”! (whatever that means)
Human civilization is about 4000 years old, till now there is no one world order. Even now there is no one world order. Lucifer is not even seen anywhere but your god and his followers are trying to make a one world order for two thousand years. They went out to every nation and by sword or trick conquered them and tried to make them followers of your god, fortunately they have not succeeded yet. And they were not asking to worship Lucifer but asking to worship your god and jesus.
That way he could have gotten some jewish followers not gentile followers. And even during the judges time, all jews didn’t obey the judges or kings so jesus also couldn’t expect more.
Iron fists will create resentment and sooner or later such empires collapse (he did experiment with Greeks and some others, didn’t he?). Your god knew better. Heard of “monkey paw”? Your god made Constantine to do the dirty work(the paw) while letting jesus remain the “sacrificial lamb”.
Heard of Ahammadiya muslims, ask them. Anyway, I said that could be a possibility. He was not a Roman criminal, so Romans were not bothered much about him. Again the death and resurrection might have been entirely made up by his followers to create more followers just like some modern preachers use fake "miracles". If I am to conduct a Ponzy scheme you do not expect me to be honest, do you? And given the history of christianity that wouldn't be a far fetched one to say that the whole death resurrection or resurrection story is made up.. Your god might be powerful, but he is not powerful enough to have power over 'death'. So he made his followers write books where he cold easily resurrect anyone.
Which Roman source?
So is it Ok if I beat up my child for what my neighbour's son does? Why Jesus "had" to die?
Which part of jesus was separate from god? According to you jesus was god, so how was god separated from god? And you are yet to answer my question – did god have two bodies joined by one spirit?
If they themselves are part of the conspiracy they wouldn’t need a resurrection to preach resurrection, would they?
So there were two gods? God was separated from god!!!???
I already said why. It is like saying we have to ask ourselves why communists were persecuted, is there any point to that question?
Paul didn’t know anything about Jesus, is a fact. Paul was a crusader for your god. It was not Jesus but your god who talked with Paul. When Paul understood that it was his god’s wish he was happy to do his bidding. It was not jesus followers but your god himself who taught Paul what to say and that was why he never bothered to study anything from Jesus’s followers.
If you have dedicated followers it is not a problem especially it was the “death and resurrection” that has to be preached. Romans put him to death does mean the Romans knew him. In fact, even the jews didn’t know him well that they had to get the help of his disciple to identify him.
Answer this too
How did your god teach you?
How do you know Lucifer is evil?
What evil did Lucifer do?
If natural disasters are from nature and good and evil are from human interaction and as Lucifer cannot communicate with humans, how is Lucifer responsible for anything man does?
Did Lucifer get angry when he found that humans are clothed?
Did Lucifer ask sacrifice?
Did Lucifer let his "son"(who is himself- a pure lie for one is not his own son) killed even though he could prevent it?
Did Lucifer spread the lie that his son who couldn't be killed is dead?
Did Lucifer claim himself as the way and truth?
Did Lucifer ask anybody to worship him?
Did Lucifer drowned humans?
Did anyone worship Lucifer because of good or bad happening to oneself? (But your god get worshipped for both good and bad especially bad though you say he is not responsible).
Really, what is evil if none of the above is evil?Give me example in the Bible but this verse which you misconstrue where Jesus demands people to beg Him? He said He came to earth to serve.
Yes, there is a better way to get followers and that is with Jesus' resurrection. There aren't many who will follow Him when they need to deny themselves. Jesus did not have swarms of followers. With His power, He could have had thousands. And Jesus does not demand that we be poor. He promises to give us our daily bread. In other words, He gives us enough.
There is a reason why God wants us to love Him above what the world offers. It is because this world is evil and what it has to offer corrupts the soul. Loving God saves us from Satan. As I have said many times, Lucifer does plan to force everyone to worship Him in the future.
So now you are not sure how God communicates with humans but you think the followers are in cahoots with a God to deceive people?
Where on earth did you get the notion that the world is only 4000 years old? Did you know it takes millions of years for coal to form? Why do the world leaders who cause so much evil worship Lucifer? A New World Order is coming and it will be horrific. I think if Jesus wanted a one world order He would have overthrown the Roman Empire instead of dying like a criminal on the cross.
he Crusaders used violence to further there agenda but where they true followers of Jesus? No, because Jesus said those who live by the sword, die by the sword. In other words, He did not advocate violence.
Some Jewish followers? Jesus could also have made the gentiles follow Him.
The Roman Empire did not collapse during Jesus' life-time. He could have been a dictator. With power from God, He could make sure that His empire would not collapse ever. I don't think God make Constantine do anything. It has been suggested He legalized Christianity because aliens wanted him to. Why would aliens do that? So that the Catholic Church could come into being and it is Satanic to the core.
Pontius Pilate was cornered into putting Jesus to death by the Jewish authorities so His crucifixion was a big deal to the Romans. The Romans were not happy with Jesus' followers after Jesus caused a scene with his whip in the Temple in Jerusalem. I don't think preachers can resurrect the dead. If people are suspicious of a Ponzy scheme then I'm sure people would have been sceptical of a resurrection. Followers were created when Jesus rose from the dead and mingled with people on earth. Those who invest in Ponzy schemes do not know anything about the creator. People witnessed Jesus' death and believed. They saw it with their own eyes. Give me your argument on why the death and resurrection story is made up?
He died to conquer death! And sin leads to permanent death. So conquering death means Jesus conquered all evil.
Jesus was separate from God on this earth because He had flesh. In the spiritual domain, He is one with God as the Holy Spirit. So when Jesus was on this earth God assumed two roles. It may not make sense but this is not complicated for the Holy Spirit. So, no, God did not have two bodies because God in heaven doesn't have a body.
I think people would want some proof especially those who witnessed Jesus die and especially the Pharisees. They had heard of the prophecy of Jesus rising from the dead so I think they'd be most interested to see if He had resurrected or not.
Paul once persecuted the Christians for preaching the resurrection of Christ. He had them put to death. What changed his mind? I don't know why you think His belief digresses from Jesus' followers. His belief in Christ was the same as the apostles.
The Romans knew that Jesus was His followers were causing some trouble in Jerusalem and that if Pontius Pilate wanted to save his own skin, he needed to put Jesus to death. What do you mean the Jews needed help from the disciples to identify Him?That means Jesus was separate from god not three days but the whole days he was here on earth, that is 33 years, wasn't it?
So what you call god and holy spirit and jesus is the same one, so how is jesus separate from god if jesus and god are the same one?
Like Anthony Hopkins is Hannibal in one film and Zorro in another? So god came to earth and on earth he was called Jesus, then what is this separation?
What is not complicated for holy spirit, to make sense out of this nonsense or "assuming" roles? Why does he want to assume roles, if not to deceive?
So god in heaven is two spirit, god spirit and holy spirit. On earth he has no spirit only a body and for three days this body was dead. Or do you mean he had a spirit here on earth as well, total three spirits and this spirit separated from the body? But then the spirit is still god or is this spirit a non-god god?
If this body is also god. So how did the god separated from jesus, he was not there in the first place?
Yes. In the supernatural it is possible to be God incarnate but separate as well.
I told you. They were separated by flesh. Now He is not in the flesh and so is one entity with God.
I'll explained it the best I can.
God as a spirit could not actually die for our sins. That is why He had to come in the flesh and assume the role of the Son. It is not meant to deceive.
God in heaven is one spirit. Jesus and Him are one in the form of the Holy Spirit. Of course Jesus had a spirit. We all have spirits.
His body was not considered God.Does that mean the incarnate one is not god? Or does that mean after the incarnation the one remaining is not god? During the incarnation there are two gods?
So the one with flesh, when he was here, was not god? He became god only after his death?
There was nothing that made sense.
God as spirit couldn't die and the flesh was NOT god. So why do you say god died? Why did he assume something which he was not if it is not to deceive?
So jesus spirit was not god? If jesus have a separate spirit what do you mean by one with god? So the spirit of jesus + the spirit of god is holy spirit?
Let me recap,
There is one god who is spirit..
There was a man with a body and spirit called jesus.
He simply assumed, at the behest of your god, the role of his son which could have been played by anybody who is willing to die for his cause?
This man died and after his death he became one with god.
During the 33 years he was separate from god.
So if god is spirit, what is this holy spirit?
If Jesus was separate from god while he was here on earth, what is the importance of this death where you claim he was in hell, a hell which you define as separation from god?No, not just anyone could have have assumed the role of the Son. We are not part of God like Jesus is. We are not one with Him as the Holy Spirit like Jesus is.
The importance of his death was to prove Jesus conquered it by resurrecting. Jesus only resurrected because God forgave all sin. If God could not forgive sin then Jesus would be lost to death and hell. Likewise we, too, can resurrect once we are freed from our sin by repentance.Haven’t you heard the story where the omniscient jesus sleeps through a storm when the disciples had to beg to save them or the story in Mark, again the same scenario, where Jesus intends to pass by and the disciples mistook him for a ghost or another story where Jesus was not able to “perform miracles” because people didn’t have faith in him (that people saw through his deception)?
???
Do you pay attention to what you read and and what you write, for this statement seriously brings your comprehension into question? You were asking me why Jesus didn’t force his followers to worship him and I told you that forced worship don’t last. Now you are telling me that Jesus didn’t force worship that is why the followers didn’t revolt. Let me make it clear, your god and Jesus knew very well that force worship won’t work and that is why they turned to this deception trick of “sacrifice”.
If genesis is a pagan story NT too is a pagan story.
From where did you get the information about OT’s literal translation, is it any authentic credible source, for nowhere in OT people revolt against aliens unless you mean your god or neighbours like Assyrians by alien ?
Daily bread???? I was telling you that people simply do not worship for the sake of daily bread, please read before answering.
What better way to improve the cohesion of one’s group other than finding an enemy? And so who else is better to slander than Lucifer who is the arch enemy of your god? Who got benefits from the war other than your god? Who emerged stronger from the war other than your god?
KKK is evil, it is because your god is evil. Freemasonry is about worshipping your god and they are showing a front that they know people will hate and project the face of Lucifer that more and more people turn towards your god. It is like the politicians from some third world countries who kill their own followers and accuse their opponents to bring in more followers.
All that we know about Lucifer is from the followers of your god only.
But if he can bring followers to their object of worship, Lucifer is a boon, isn’t it?
I am not proficient in the ways of your god, the devil, and I do not expect his followers to speak the truth.
The most evil fellow, your god, slanders Lucifer, so what other proof is needed for the innocence of this creature especially considering that it has almost no followers but your god has the majority of the world as followers.
Simply building something do not make civilization, it starts with literature and that is, as far as we are aware 4000 years old (a few hundred years + or – doesn’t matter)
Inventions are of late doesn’t mean your god’s followers were not trying to make a “one world order”. They were and are, only the technology has changed. Earlier they spread their godspel through word of mouth and sword but now it is the internet and drones.
Your own words will answer you “In the case of Jesus, He did not force people to worship Him so why should His followers revolt? “.
Ooops!! Bacteria do not need permission, so will it simply walk from one planet to another? If your god do not allow not even bacteria one of the smallest organisms can’t get into earth, then Lucifer cannot get in, so who is talking about giving permission to bacteria? We humans now can control and prevent an asteroid from entering earth (well almost) and we do not permit an asteroid to enter the earth surface, does that mean the asteroid has a permissive will?
Ponzy schemes are not advertised as Ponzy schemes but as genuine honest enterprises were people can make money. Nobody advertised resurrection, then how do any one know about it?
So Romans were happy, that was not what you said?
Why did the god need the death of a human to forgive? Was it actually forgiveness? This just prove what I said, your god is a blood thirsty tyrant who cannot forgive till he sees blood.
A number of people will believe and if they or their descendants are fanatical then that can indeed be a religion. So let me put it another way, If your neighbor comes and tell you that he flew to heaven in a flying horse god gave him, made him his prophet and gave him his law, will you believe him? According to you nobody should, but somebody did and that is what the second largest religion is all about.
You should ask paul with what all promises did your god deceive him.
If Jews didn’t need help to identify Jesus, why did they pay 30 silver pieces to Judas?
Who else will want to fake miracles and prophesies? Have you seen psychics?
My belief? From around the world. Only con artists claim to have powers which they do not have.
But more people turn to god by suffering than those people who turn away. Atheists turn away from god seeing other people’s suffering but turn towards when that suffering occurs in their own life. The people who turn away are a minority when compared to people who turn towards, that suffering is the ultimate tool of your god.
Did Isaac Newton personally teach you the laws of Physics? He only taught a few people and then they taught some other who then taught some other…… Lucifer, when he got an opportunity taught and the light he gave is still here in spite of the efforts by your god to extinguish it, there is no contradiction. I never claimed that Lucifer teach each human individually, I only said he gave us the methods sometime in the past and the methods are still here. It is like building an eternal factory, anybody who wishes to produce can produce, it does not need the builder to be there always.
Jess was sacrificed by your god, to satisfy the whims of your god (He was fooled into doing that was an entirely different thing). If your god wanted to forgive, he could do that without
“death” sacrifice from Jesus.
I am listening to what you are saying but what you say does not make sense and you are contradicting yourself. All flesh dies, so what? The spirit does not die. What is so great about flesh, it is not god. The spirit in the flesh is god and that spirit was not killed. Changing flesh is like changing cloth, nothing great about it to boast of “sacrifice”, especially if one knows one can get it after a day or two. Sacrifice is when something is lost forever or lost without knowing that it will be given back.
To me too, otherwise who would sacrifice for humans? He could have been the follower of your god and be heaven but no he wanted to be with truth, pathetic isn’t it?
Simple force can’t make people worship for eternity.
Your god is not powerful enough to do that hence he has to use deception.
If he was powerful as you say, he could simply have forgiven human beings.
The followers of your god are ruling this world.
If Lucifer and his followers had power, they wouldn’t wait 2000 years.
The only one who benefit from disease is your god. And whoever is responsible for natural forces is responsible for disease too.
God and satan are co–creators, then they are brothers in arms. So I was wrong, there is not one but two evil brothers – god and satan?
It is your opinion that OT has little truth.
Naturally, but after saying good is god you say that he asked his own death to forgive, which is the character of evil. So either your god is evil or you call evil as good.
If god and the spirit of jesus are one and the same then Jesus didn’t die.
If jesus’s spirit was god then he was not dead in the first place. Flesh is mud; we are spirit (what we are), flesh is not at all important.. If god could not forgive sin without making a show of it, the he is not god but satan.The disciples had known Jesus for a long time and could see what a faith in Him can achieve. When the storm came they doubted Him even though it is human. I think Jesus was only being human to be irritated with them. Even though God is compassionate in this regard, it must frustrate Him somewhat when people doubt Him even though they have seen what faith can do.
Without faith Jesus can do nothing for you. He wants to guide our lives out of love but people turn away and thus has no influence over them. This is what Jesus illustrated. Without faith, Jesus could do know miracles for them. Performing miracles was an opportunity for Him to show what faith can do.
I'm arguing from your premise that forced worship would not last. That is not what I believe. As the son of God, Jesus would have no problem forcing people to worship Him.. He could prevent people from revolting.
Logical fallacy. What exactly is pagan in the New Testament? I do not believe everything in the New Testament but I hardly see how the whole thing is a pagan story.
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4MXLB6S … CJxw1wDtoq
You are asking me what the scriptures meant by "give us our daily bread" and not your interpretation.
Who emerged stronger as in control of this world? Lucifer, of course. People in power claim to be Christian but they are Satanists covertly. Christianity is a cover. Our world leaders worship Lucifer.
Let's consider a quote from Manly P Hall, a 33rd degree Freemason:
"When a mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy"
So Freemasons do not worship my God.
What do you mean what we know of Lucifer is from the followers of my God? Aren't the followers supposed to be charlatans and liars? Then that makes what you know about Lucifer fraudulent. I can't believe you would think that.
I was being sarcastic. Of course he is a boon.
There you go. You say you do not expect His followers to tell the truth but what you know about Lucifer is from them?
You must believe that his followers make up that Lucifer was bad and then made up that he was wise. You must think that if you think all we know about Lucifer is from them. Then why would they bother portraying him in a good light just to villainize him??
Please understand, the Chinese civilization is at least 5000 years old. Don't ignore that. The Sphinx in Egypt is at least 5000 years old. To get to that advanced engineering I think that literature would have been established a long time ago. In fact, the emergence of human civilization
Revelation takes about the mark of the beast, the microchip. If God is all powerful then why did His followers fail at a establishing a one world order?
Arguing from your premise.
So if bacteria is here because of God then why can't He established a one world order?
Just because people have heard of Ponzy schemes do not mean they recognize it as nefarious. How did people recognize the resurrection? Because they saw it!
Pilate was not happy to be upstaged by the Pharisees and others who wanted Jesus dead. It mean nothing to the other Romans whether Jesus was put to death all not.
The only way that God could reveal the truth to humanity is to come in the form of one of us and that was through Jesus. He preached the truth and taught the people but the truth is threatening. And Jesus would be put to death for it. Not by God but by Jesus' enemies. I don't know how many times I have to explain this but without Jesus' death there would be no resurrection that people would witness. In death, if we do not repent for our sins then we will be completely separated from God. So in death, that was the fate of Jesus but He brought the bondage of sin and death.
Are you telling me the disciples would have believed Jesus rose from the dead when they did not see it for themselves? Jesus spent some time on earth after His resurrection and thus many saw Him. So it wasn't all "fanatics". I think the word would spread fast about Jesus' resurrection and there would be many who would want proof. After all, people kept asking Jesus to prove He was the Son of God.
"Somebody" did because they witnessed the resurrection. Nobody has seen that neighbour fly in a horse god. Many people claim that Elvis is still alive but most don't take that seriously because no one has seen him rise from the dead. That would never become a religion.
Obviously I cant ask Paul. So please elaborate.
So?
Yes, but I don't see how it is relevant.
But you have no proof Jesus was one. Don't assume because there are conman out there that all must be. Not all psychics are frauds.
God does not cause suffering but He can use suffering to show how He can help us through. We can only be spiritually refined by suffering. No one can be compassionate without some sort of suffering. Finally, God suffers with us. I don't know for sure that when atheist suffer they would turn to God. I don't think all atheists are happy and don't suffer.
Isaac Newton could communicate with humans so that is where his knowledge was passed down. Lucifer, with no one to teach, could not pass on wisdom. So you say what we know from Lucifer is from God's followers and that couldn't communicate with us. Now suddenly you believe the wisdom of Lucifer even though what you know of him is from God's followers. You also now say that Lucifer had a window of opportunity to teach wisdom to mankind? You aren't making any sense.
I've explained this a zillion times.
So what? Jesus could not resurrect if he didn't die with a body made of flesh. Yes, the spirit does not die but it depends where that spirit goes. We have a chance of reconciling with God because Jesus died for us. The death of the flesh is not that important. It is our spiritual death that is what Jesus saved us from. And Jesus did not know that He would be reconciled with God again in death so He did know "know He would get it back".
Satan doesn't want to be in heaven. Far from it. He wants to feed off people's misery.
But He is responsible for the presence of bacteria on this earth?
How can God forgive those who love evil? He cannot be in the presence of evil. It is impossible. The evil shun God. They don't want to be with Him.
Like who?
Circumstances have to be just write from a technological point of view. In the meanwhile, Lucifer's plans are being implemented right now to work to that goal of total enslavement.
Who says God uses natural disasters to further His agenda? Who says He must be behind earthquakes? This is not a perfect world and it reflects the battle between good and evil. How would setting off natural disasters help God? And why should God be automatically responsible for diseases? Diseases can come from poor living conditions which Lucifer worshipers need for population control.
No, they are opposing forces. The earth is a result of both of their creations and influences. They are like electrons and protons in an atom.
What is true in the Old Testament to you?
Laying down one's life for others is the greatest love displayed as Jesus did.The disciples did believe him and that is why they called him, otherwise why should they call him? Being fishermen they are seeing storms not for the first time, are they? Jesus who knew a storm is coming slept through that the disciples beg to him, simple.
That is what exactly the charlatan psychics say. God do not want your permission to do something for you. Jesus could fool people only if they believed him first.
Unless he can be with every human being on the earth at the same time, he cannot force anybody. No dictator was able to do that. No human groups will submit to yoke eternally, some people prefer freedom to death. Otherwise there wouldn’t be any freedom struggles.
How exactly?
What is not a pagan story in the NT? It is just a mix up of OT + Odyssey + Iliad and some other pagan myths.
Another conspiracy theorist who says he only got it right while all others are wrong?
But why do you select only those books which justify your preconceived notions while reject all others. [By the way if you can tell me where I can get the book that I can read it completely and get an idea, I would be thankful to you]
You might have noticed that OT is a Jewish text not a Christian text. Isn't the god and his angels “extra terrestrials(aliens)”?
“We think of the bible as a book "arranged" a thousand years ago, Not so, It was "Fixed" between the 7th and 9th century AD. 600 t0 800 AD
Out of all the schools which were the Palestinian, Samaritan, Babylonian and Tiberian, It was the family of the Tiberian School”
That is true, then so is the NT.
No I was telling you that people won’t worship just for the sake of daily bread nothing to do with scripture.
The only person who says the world leaders worship Lucifer is you who do not know any leaders personally. The world leaders, that is the European and American leaders always used Jesus and tried everything to spread his name, while good leaders Like M K Gandhi never bothered.
Exactly, what one knows about Lucifer is from fraudsters and liars, so one has to sift through to know. For all we know Lucifer might be just a name put forward by your god’s followers to deflect blame from your god, just like you are doing now. All I can say is being the person responsible for everything that happen here on earth, your god is re3sponsible for all the evils including night terrors and as the person who is responsible for evil he (your god), is the satan
For your god of course!
When a liar lies you know the opposite is truth. When the followers of the liar, your god, says Lucifer is evil naturally we can derive that he is not.
They are not portraying him in good light.
You are forgetting that history of human civilization starts only 4000years before. I also said 5000 or 4000 doesn’t matter as it is only a matter of a few hundred years. But 4000 is not 40000. Drawings of playing lute won’t make civilization; it is literature that makes civilization.
The “microchip” is a literal translation? Is there internet too?
Your god is not all powerful, he is just an angel and his power is limited.
His just like a human dictator with some super human powers, he is not god.
The people who say they saw it are the followers of your god and they have a reason to say that, didn’t they? When liars say they saw, most probably they have not seen.
Pilate didn’t want to be upstaged hence he acted like he was upstaged?
After death nobody can repent. You are simply asserting that jesus needed to die and resurrect but you fail to tell why. If your god is all powerful he can tell all human being like he told Mary or Joseph or Elijah or Isaiah.
The disciples are not jesus disciples but your god’s. They did what your god bid them to do. Very few will ask proof if they say that with conviction. If everybody wanted “proof” and was simply not willing to take other peoples words Christianity would have never gone out of Middle east.
Yes nobody has seen the neighbor flying on a horse but very many believed when Muhammad told that, didn’t they? I don’t think Muhammad showed any one his flying horse or Pegasus.
So obviously neither can I. Only Paul could say what was in it for him. I can only say that people think differently.
That means the Jews couldn’t identify him. If even the jews for whom jesus was a supposed problem wouldn’t know him he was not “famous” enough for romans to bother.
All psychics are frauds, the only difference is some are self deluded. Jesus was a human being and no being can defy laws of physics.
Who create the sufferings in the first place, your god.
I said sometime in the past Lucifer got an opportunity which is acknowledged by the followers of your god, by the snake in Eden story. And then that wisdom is passed down just like Isaac Newton’s is passed down. I deducted it from the followers of your god, the fact that they rail against Lucifer saying that he made Human know “right and wrong”. Humans may have achieved it without Lucifer, but then why do your god’s followers blame him?
But not in a coherent way that makes sense.
My question was about the spirit of Jesus, where did it go? Wasn’t it god?
Though all the evidence point to the contrary. It is your god who want to kill his son and people suffer.
You have some comprehension problem? Do you understand “figure of speech”? Bacteria evolved here on earth. Your god is “guarding” earth from anyone entering it especially Lucifer, does not mean he is all powerful.
Yea, letting ones son die is good. What do you really mean when you say evil?
Like the world leaders whom you are so fond of.
Yea Lucifer was waiting for human’s to invent machines!! It is your god’s plan that was being implemented all through out history.
Setting of natural disasters and diseases help god because more and more people would worship him. Diseases make more and more people immune to that disease and finally make people healthier, so the best way for population control is not disease but affluence. Africa is riddled with diseases and disasters but their population is increasing while Germany is well developed and their population is decreasing.
Then neither is disposable and is needed for the world and hence worshipped. Protons or electrons alone cannot make up matter.
What is true in NT to you? If NT is Truth then OT is too. If OT is false then NT too is false, so you decide.
If a tiger attacked me and my friend got in front of me to save me that is love. But the tiger acting like he is dead not to kill me is not. Either the tiger is playing or he is intelligent to know that he can get more victims by seemingly sparing me. Your god(jesus) acted like he killed himself so that your god do not have to punish you there by getting himself more followers is not love.It is true that they did believe in Him but there are moments of weakness where we put logic ahead of faith. For example, Peter knew Jesus but when he walked on water he panicked. Jesus is teaching us to trust in Him even when it doesn't seem practical.
Many people who saw Jesus' miracles did not or ever did believe in Him. Faith would not be exercised if one didn't believe first without actually knowing. Jesus had faith in God even though He often didn't have any idea what lay ahead for Him.
Since Jesus is the son of God, He can ask God to enslave the minds of everyone on earth to automatically serve Him as robots. For the supernatural, that is hardly a hard thing to do.
You can't just say because you believe one book is a pagan story then the other one must automatically be.
Elaborate.
I am not sure what book you are talking about? How can extra-terrestrial involvement in the Bible, the OT that is, possibly be a preconceived notion? I wasn't taught that.
Yes, but the OT is relevant to Christianity. Much of the references of God are of extra-terrestrials. Genesis takes of God saying, "Let US make man in our image." I do believe there are references to my God in the OT but they are few and far between. His true character shines in the New Testament. I don't see ET involvement there.
I know the Old Testament was written over a thousand years but the New Testament? No, it was compiled as it is today in 325 AD.
Why do you automatically assume that is true for the New Testament.
I didn't claim that one worships because of daily bread. Christians worship Jesus for His sacrifice and love for man-kind.
Who emerged stronger as in control of this world? Lucifer, of course. People in power claim to be Christian but they are Satanists covertly. Christianity is a cover. Our world leaders worship Lucifer.
Let's consider a quote from Manly P Hall, a 33rd degree Freemason:
"When a mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy"
So Freemasons do not worship my God.
Did you know that "in God we Trust" on the dollar bill is actually Lucifer? Did you know the Founding Fathers of the United States were Freemasons? Have you seen the El Diablo hand signal? See below.
See Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, do that sign.
Pope
Sarkozy
George Bush
See, the world leaders are nothing more than devil worshipers.
Lucifer is useful to God??
Liars don't always use complete lies. They can also say half-truths. I don't know you assume that lies are being said about Lucifer. You've never told me how you came to your beliefs.
Is it not a logical fallacy to assume just because you think Christians are liars that their enemy must be righteous. Lucifer also is in allegiance with Christians to corrupt the church. A perfect example is the Vatican. He plays both sides when it suits him.
We actually don't know for a fact when human civilizations really started. Civilizations are said to have risen and fallen. Atlantis is one of those that supposedly was destroyed 10 000 years ago. However, this is all academic.
It doesn't take so much intellect to figure out what the mark in Revelation was talking about. What could it mean in today's standards? After all, it is this era that Revelation is dealing with.
Well, apparently he kicks Lucifer's butt.
He is one with God in the form of the Holy Spirit now. And why are you speaking about Jesus in the present tense? He can't be alive to you if He is just human.
Not all the people who saw Jesus were His followers. He stayed on earth for weeks after the resurrection. Many of His enemies saw Him.
No, he was just upstaged. That is, backed into a corner.
You mean you fail to understand. It is a hard concept so I don't begrudge you for that. However, in death we all get to see the truth and have a chance to repent when seeing Jesus. How fair would it be if that was not the case? What about people who have never heard of Jesus when they were alive on earth? Would they go to hell for that? Absolutely not. The gift of free will is the reason why there aren't magnificent signs in the skies. If people all saw God they would be terrified to the extent that they would worship Him out of fear of hell. However, God makes His presence obvious to those who seek Him. Jesus on earth never forced anyone to worship Him. He allowed us to come to Him instead. He gives space to those who dedicate theirs lives to them.
We are not on the same page. Jesus is one with God so there are no separate disciples. Would you really believe someone who claimed something who appeared to have conviction without seeing for yourself? They could be a schizo for all you know.
I believe Mohammed flew away but not on a horse. I believe it was symbolic of disappearing in a space-craft. In the Chinese civilization, the fiery dragon is actually a space craft which we know emits fire. In the OT, Elijah was supposed to have flown to heaven on a fiery chariot. This is also indicate of a space craft. I think people described Mohammed's craft as a horse because they didn't know what the heck a space craft was.
So because you don't know his thoughts then he must be a liar?
Judas knew the location where Jesus was so they bribed him to reveal the location. It doesn't mean they didn't know of Him. It just means they didn't know where He was at that time. I think it could have been in Pilate's best interest if Jesus was located since Jesus was causing a lot of trouble which put His head on the chopping block. Anyhow, the Pharisees had quite an understanding with the Roman authorities. They would watch each other's backs.
So you have analyzed all the psychics that have ever lived and debunked their claims? Jesus was not just a human being.
Satan, or Lucifer as you know him.
No, you said this:
"Lucifer is less powerful than your lord hence he cannot communicate with humans, your god who is the most powerful wouldn’t allow it. Lucifer brought alien DNA to mix with immediate ancestors of Humans"
Achieved the ability to know the difference between right and wrong without Lucifer? Evil extra-terrestrials manipulated our DNA to know the difference between right and wrong and to have the desire to do evil. And, of course, to you Lucifer was responsible for that. I mean, why does any human being feel the need to do unspeakable evil?
Because you do not understand like I do.
To hell. Hell is a spiritual dimension. A dimension where there is no God. And did I not say that Jesus and God were separate in this earthly dimension?
Why would God WANT His Son to die? Anyway, He did not kill Him own Son. People who hated Him did.
Why would God prevent anything coming to earth when that would mean there would be no suffering to feed on like you espouse? So why did He allow those who love and serve Him to enter earth?
God allowed Jesus to die because it would be the only way we would have salvation. It was an act of love. There is no greater love than one who lays down their life for another like Jesus did.
I have already proven they do not follow God. And which world leaders am I fond of???
How else could Lucifer enslave the world without modern technology? With a microchip our every move can be followed. It can be switched off when he likes it and prevent us from being recognized as a person so one cannot continue with a business they may have and can't buy food. During the days of Jesus how could global enslavement be achieved?
So you are telling me that the people in the Philippines all flocked to God when Typhoon Haiyan came and destroyed their lives? Are you telling me that people who have AIDS, for example, will be immune to AIDS eventually? There is no disease that I'm aware of that makes people immune from it completely. If only I could never have 'flu again! Do you realized just how the population would be without disease in Africa? If disease did not ever exist in the world do you think the population there would not explode? It is keeping the numbers down but it is also true that modern medicine is lengthening the lives of those who have access to it.
Neither of them is entitled to be worshiped.
Don't turn it on me now. What is true in the Old Testament to you?
Tigers don't think along those lines. If a tiger spared someone it would not mean that he would not attack again. It means he doesn't think that person is a threat or isn't hungry. This cannot be a serious analogy? Are you suggesting that Jesus faked His own death on the cross?Actually there is a group in India (I think) who believe just that. It is said that Jesus died relatively fast on the cross compared to the days in usually took. They say he then got up and walked around and left for india where he lived the rest of his long life.
As likely as any other answer.What a huge long argument these people are getting into! Pointless prattle, in my opinion. It's as if they both grew up on a diet of Star Wars and Lord of The Ring.
Give me Avatar any day, much more truthful.I liked Avatar much more when it was called Dances With Wolves/Fern Gully/Pocahontas/Princess Mononoke/etc.
Impossible long. I must have the attention span of a flee.
A lot of the time when people make short comments it means they have nothing meaningful to say.
100% correct Claire. Sorry to butt into your conversation, Rad Man included. I could think of nothing more useful to say.
Not paradise, that was what jesus told the criminal?
Luke 23: 39- 43 "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” ...
So why do you say hell?There is no time after death. Someone who died 3000 years ago would get the impression they had just died in God's dimension.
If they were in any way aware of any thing, any consciousness, any sensations.
Isn't that what you get when you sleep?
The question is about jesus.
Who gets that impression, spirit or body?
Was jesus dead all those time or did he have feelings? If the former, what is the point in saying that he was in hell? If the latter, the statement of yours become meaningless. And why Jesus said "today" to the criminal (the criminal was not god). The crminal asked to remember him when Jesus attains glorification and jesus said that he would be with him today not he would be with him when he attain glorification or simply he would be with him. Today doesn't mean tomorrow or future it last only till the sun sets.
Which is god's dimension, is it length, breadth, width or time?Not always. If you are in deep sleep and were so tired that you were out as soon as your head hit the pillow. If you sleep light you can drift in an out.
The resurrected body and spirit. We will not have the bodies we had on earth when we resurrect. They will have our likeness but won't be the same.
It can be the former and latter. Death doesn't mean our consciousness is gone. It is only the death of our bodies. As I said there is no time. The future, past and present are all in one. That is the theory of relatively. I do not know what dimension God is in. Some say it is the ninth, seventh or fourth but it is impossible to truly know.So...you're denying the Theory of Relativity, then?
That's some award-winning ignorance you've got going, there. Have some happy sparkles! ヽ(゜∇゜)ノ*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧What happens to babies? Are they stuck for eternity with little tiny bodies that can't walk or even talk? Because babies are not even self aware and have no language skills will they be able to communicate?
Wow! What have I been missing? The length of your last thread must be a record, Claire! Not sure of all of its contents, but the length is awesome!
It takes me a while to compose them. It's an effort but I think it's worth it.
Sorry for being late, I am very busy right now. I will discuss only one or two points now rest I will deal when I get time.
Do you understand that what you say doesn't make sense? If there is only one god, how can god be separated from god? One cannot separate a thing but only divide. So either god divided to become two gods or there was no separation.
Not only does it sound but it is and I have only your word to say that it is true.
What is this penalty of hell you are talking about. If Jesus is god, where ever he goes is heaven, isn't it?
Not according to the bible. According to the bible satan was afraid and went away when Jesus commanded.
That does not require Jesus to die.
Baloney, we do not emit any frequencies.
Yes, then why did Jesus scolded them?
Exactly, god made of foll of jesus, that is what I said.
Yes
You yourself said the OT are all pagan. If OT is pagan then so is NT, that is what I said. In addition to Iliad and Odyssey, God impregnating, god dying and resurrecting, virgin birth.... these are all pagan stories too.
I never said it is word by word translation nor I said it is Odyssey alone. It is transsubstantiated and trans valued which was a common practice of old. That was how Greek was taught -by writing stories based on Odyssey and Iliad..
Odysseus was a "carpenter king", he built his own ship and palace. He sailed in turbulent seas, so Mark had to find a sea and made a placid lake into violent "sea" of Galilie. Burial is like Burial of Hector. Elijah miracles of feeding hundred and resurrecting death is exaggerated. " My god, my god why have you...... the lamentations of david is used to create the suffering Messiah.
There are ET in Nt also, like the sound from heaven, the satan, dove.... Also jesus came from "heaven" and went back there.
You listen to it.
I am not "automatically" assuming. I am using the same rigorous approach you use in OT to NT while you use it only for OT.
When did I say it was from a single school. The gospels were in different oral traditions which were later wrote down as different gospels you mean?
That is news
They are called Christians, only they believe they are following god.
Yea "El" -god. The satanists pray to god in public so that your god get more followers, the satanists are workers of your god, am I clear?
What does it matter what the misguided jesus prayed? If I beat you every day, only I can stop beating you, right? That way I can deliver you from beating, right?
The god you say is evil, and anyone who opposes evil should be good. I do not follow Lucifer, I take him as a symbol of all the oppressed goodness.
As long as Lucifer is not known outside bible, it doesn't matter. He is a sign of goodness - light.
The evil followers are using post hoc reasoning and manipulating meaning to fit the meanings of revelation to current or happened events, nothing else.
See how you do this regarding Fukushima nuclear incident. Where all third of all sea creatures died? No, you will rationalize it by saying it happnes around japan. You just see an event and find a corresponding passage that can fit.
When did the people who crucified jesus saw him? Why should the Pharisees bother about an obscure one? Only years after his death, Jesus became famous for Pharisees to bother about his body.
There is no consciousness of "I/me" after death and no hell, however much we want it.
Sorry myself for this really late reply. Life is hectic as you know.
We are talking about the supernatural here and not what is logical. You could say God "divided" Himself as the Son and the Father. They are one entity as the Holy Spirit. It's like an egg. There are three components to it but it is just considered a unit.
Jesus was separated from God on earth in that He was in human form and has the same nature as man. In other words, He could be tempted but God cannot. Jesus prayed to God so we know they were two separate components of the same unit. God cannot be near sin but Jesus took it on. Jesus became possessed with evil and that is hell. The complete separation from God.
Going back to the egg analogy, we may separate the yolk from the white but even though they are separate, they still come form the same source. It's collectively known as the egg. Jesus and God are collectively called the Holy Spirit.
But he comes back, doesn't he? Satan was there trying to talk Jesus out of the crucifixion at the end. That is what he does. He is told to go, he licks his wounds, gathers up his courage and returns to try again.
It does take Jesus. If God could not forgive sin in Jesus, He could not forgive us because Jesus was responsible for our sins. Quite frankly, it would not only have been the death of us but Jesus as well. If Jesus could not be redeemed, He would have remained in hell with us following suit.
The truth is, no one can get rid of sin on their own. It's in our nature. We are born to sin. Without anyone taking on that sin we could never avoid, we'd be lost to it. It is impossible to save ourselves. It is only because of the Holy Spirit that people would ever repent at all. Any goodness in us is from God.
What are you talking about? The brain emits frequencies.
"As explained by both Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison... The human brain emits frequency which when focussed, picked up by another human brain, and does affect physical matter. It passes through the ether, through solid objects, and travels faster than the speed of light. There is a magnetic pull."
http://lawofattractionuk.blogspot.com/2 … er-of.html
http://www.measurement.sk/2005/S2/Lipkova.pdf
He scolded them because they doubted Him. It's human, but Jesus has to remind us that we cannot obey Him when we have doubt.
That's not making a fool of Him. Imagine if Jesus knew all along right from when He started His ministry that He was going to die and go to hell? He would not have coped and focus on His ministry. God chooses to with hold things from us until it is the right time.
You can't just say because one book is pagan then the other must be, too. I've already addressed the Iliad and Odyssey story. They are not like Jesus' story.
I'm sorry but I don't see the similarity at all. Despite the fact it is not word for word, it is not even remotely similar. Look here:
"Odysseus' return from Troy, chronicled in the Odyssey, took ten years and was beset by perils and misfortune. He freed his men from the pleasure-giving drugs of the Lotus-Eaters, rescued them from the cannibalism of the Cyclopes and the enchantments of Circe. He braved the terrors of the underworld with them, and while in the land of the dead Hades allowed Thiresias, Odysseus' mother, Ajax and others to give him adivice on his next journey. They gave him important advice about the cattle of the sun (which Apollo herds), Scylla and Charybdis and the Sirens. From there on the travels were harder for Odysseus, but they would have been much worse of it wasn't for the help of the dead.
With this newly acquired knowledge, he steered them past the perils of the Sirens and of Scylla and Charybdis. He could not save them from their final folly, however, when they violated divine commandments by slaughtering and eating the cattle of the sun-god. As a result of this rash act, Odysseus' ship was destroyed by a thunderbolt, and only Odysseus himself survived. He came ashore on the island of the nymph Calypso, who made him her lover and refused to let him leave for seven years. When Zeus finally intervened, Odysseus sailed away on a small boat, only to be shipwrecked by another storm. He swam ashore on the island of the Phaeacians, where he was magnificently entertained and then, at long last, escorted home to Ithaca.
Come on.
So Odysseus built a ship? So? He sailed in rough seas? So? That wasn't uncommon for people at sea. You have to prove that the writers of the Gospel of Mark lifted that gospel from Odysseus.
Let's examine the Burial of Hector:
"At the point at which we return to the poem, King Priam is seeking to get Hector’s body back. In his encounter with Priam, Achilles is moved. Both men are grieving: one for a son, one for a best friend. Priam says he is doing what no man has ever done before: kissing the hand that killed his son. Achilles feels sorry because he did not have as close a relationship with his father as Priam and Hector had. He grants Priam’s request (and tidies up Hector’s body so Priam won’t become angry and thus respark Achilles’ anger) and gives him an 9-day time-out of the war to bury and mourn Hector. The poem ends with Hector’s burial."
You are not comparing this to Jesus' burial, are you?
I'm not familiar with Elijah feeding hundreds? Do you have the chapter and verse? Are you talking about Elijah's resurrection. He never died.
From Psalm 22, David, indeed, makes that lamentation. Christians see that as a prophesy.
God and Satan are not extraterrestrials. They don't reside some place on another planet or the like. They are inter dimensional.
Whether he said it or not, that isn't even historically factual. The Catholic Church was fully established with the gospels by the 4th century AD.
Each gospel had multiple writers extracted from oral traditions. Sorry, I can't recall this discussion.
It is true. Islam is gaining ground, it appears.
Christians are Satanists? That's a weird thing to say. However, there are Satanists who pose as Christians like in the Vatican. I've done nothing Satanic.
Who is God? It is a generic name. When I say God, you know who I am talking to but the devil can be called a god, too. He is the god of the evil. I still don't understand how you can label Christians Satanists. That puzzles me.
Yes, but you are responsible for the beating. God is not responsible for temptation and evil.
What evil did Jesus commit? If you find Lucifer a symbol for goodness, you are a follower whether you not it or not. Why? Because opposition to Jesus is what Lucifer wants. So he thanks you much for helping him.
No, you think he is a sign of goodness and light. That is his deception. He comes across as so caring when in fact he is a cowardly, evil thing. You should learn how Lucifer really operates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSewpWSUpo
You can think that but I think it is very scary that there is a plan to microchip people so that only with that they can be recognized as a legal entity. No buying and selling with it.
I think it was when Jesus traveled for 40 days because His ascension. Why would the Pharisees bother? Because they were the ones who put Him to death by coercing Pilate. They were extremely threatened by Him. And they were very aware of the talk of His resurrection. That's why there were guards outside of Jesus' tomb.
How do you know this?Funny thing about consciousness is that it requires an active, neuron-firing brain to work. And wouldn't you know it, your brain ceases to be active and fires no more neurons when you're dead.
So it is a scientific fact that there is no consciousness after death? The brain is the medium from which we think. Like I wouldn't be typing to you without being connected to the Internet through a modem. I can type all I want but if I am not connected, no one is going to read it. Good enough analogy?
Not at all, here the brain analogy will be all the intertwined computers with net.
This is why we both missed this. I only accidently saw this now.
We are talking about supernatural, but we are talking English where each word has a meaning. So holy spirit is egg, god is white and Jesus yellow? So when we separate it, there is no god, only parts of god.
That means when Jesus and god was separated there was no god? No Jesus cannot pray to god because they are both equal parts. Jesus can be separated from the other part but he is still part god for when we separate yellow from white, there is no egg.
So when the disciples received spirit, was it both Jesus and god together? When you talk about spirit, do you mean that you see Jesus?
Not at all. He wsa afraid and was keeping his distance, a mere talk is not harassing that two years apart. Most of the time it was Jesus whop wnet to them.
Do you understand that this doesn’t make any sense whatsoever?
Why is your god incapable of forgiving sins? How does killing Jesus make him forgive? How is that Jesus get responsibility for what I do?
If jesus is god, from whom should he need redemption, is he not god?
If you sin against me, it doesn’t matter what you do but it matters what I do.
Another nonsense, can’t you at least provide a respectable link. Please not that the two are not biologists either.
Where is it said that they doubted? If they doubted why did they call him?
That is what is called “fooling”. God knew if he knew it earlier he would escape. He brought him to a point of no return by fooling him.
If the story is taken from OT which is a pagan story, then NT is also pagan. Theplots are all same, only transvalued.
Odysseus came to his place , he went to hell, he killed his opponents and won.
Jesus wnet to his place, went to hell, was killed by his enemies and won. That is called transvaluavation.
Odysseus also built his own palace. In gospels also we do not see Jesus working, only a mention of carpenter.
Joespeh, Jesus father’s namesake went to his enemy, just like Priam Hector’s father wnet to his enemy, got his son’s body. Jesus was clothed/ anointed, the three women… the plot is same including the words.
Elijah 2 Kings 4:43
Once you copy from an older book one can always claim prophesy.
You have seen them in that dimension?
My question was why did you send me a video which you yourself say is unreliable?
To you.
There are still believe Jesus is god, that alone will make them satanic.
Because Jesus is not god.
Your god is.
We have already discussed that. No satan wants Jesus to be worshipped. That is why they made that drama.
That is again from Christians, based on bible, the followers of satan.
He travelled in hiding, you yourself said he was seen only by his followers. It is Jews not Pharise that put him top death.
Why should anybody be threatened by someone not known?
That is what death means, END.
Consciousness is from brain.
PS: You need not reply to the long comments as after writing the reply I found out that most of it is being discussed in the Islamic forum.
As far as I know, now there is no living person who has seen any of those things which are claimed by Christians. They all simply believe. Are they schizo?
What you say about Muslims can be said about christians too. The “holy spirit” who descended during Pentecost was an alien… they are in cahoots with an alien…. Paul did no miracles, what he did was converting some people to what he belived.
Can you give me the verse were he went to heaven in public… the whole quran is a collection of Muhammad’s words. “Chapter 78: THE MEANING OF THE WORDS OF ALLAH:" HE SAW HIM IN ANOTHER DESCENT" (AL-QUR'AN, LIII. 13). DID THE APOSTLE (MAY PEACE BE UPON HIM) SEE HIS LORD ON THE NIGHT OF HIS JOURNEY (TO HEAVEN)?” He is singular.
Did the followers saw miracles and believed?
Just because I do not what the deal was doesn’t mean Paul was not a liar. What did Paul get is the thing which I do not know and which You want to knaow.
No Jesus was an obscure Jew and no man of repute has heard about them. And according to bible, They left to Gethsemane only after Judas left.
There were a lot many jews along with them who could identify jesus. After all who can forget a man who a few days before caused such a commotion in the temple?
What they do is fraud,… nobody is giving away. Say cold reading is a common technique employed by them, but who is giving away?
Actually god is called Yahweh or jesus or …..
He can gain followers. Lucifer is gaining nothing.
Then why is called Jesus?
Only if we know the difference between good and evil we can select. If your god was as powerful as you say he could have prevented the ET’s from doing that job. Only psychopaths have the desire to do evil, the rest have the desire to eat and procreate.
Because very few human’s are psychopaths. And if what si done is not known, then no harm done.
Is that the reason why god allowed ET to manipulate human DNA?
No, you didn’t say a sentence that is coherent regarding this duality.
pou said ‘god jesus’ is separated from ‘god father then said there is only one god which does not make sense.
Which are the other dimensions? You said “CLAIRE EVANS WROTE:
As I said there is no time. The future, past and present are all in one.
“ So how can time that is not there becomes another dimension?
That means there is one spirit and two body for god and one body got separated from another. But that body still had the spirit?
Who decided that? What is this “permissive will”?
So they can repent and still get salvation. What was the need of jesus dying? Dead for two days is called deep sleep or coma…. Not death.
Egyptians didn’t have much technology, if they had there would have been very many pyramids and monuments.
Exactly, people in general pray to god when they get something or is freed from suffering, that is why god gives suffering.
And that is how evolution works. When people without genes die out people with genes survive and creating a new generation who are immune.
I am not saying either of it as true or false. What I say is if the same yard stick is used, either both are historical or none are historical.
Kill or hell, both are same. Can you explain it in a sensible way instead of simply regurgitating?
SO mostly it is.
Then he wouldn’t have used the word “today” in earth. Anyway according to you that “today” Jesus was in hell, but jesus said that “today” he would be in paradise.
And not, that is not relativity.
The Holy Spirit entered these people. He did not physically appear to them during Pentecost. And how would Paul convince people to believe the way he did? I can't convince you so how could he can?
Fair enough but I've learnt that he did not fly away on a horse. That is nowhere in the Quran from what I know.
I don't know. You must know.
It doesn't mean he is a liar, also.
Pharisees were of repute and they definitely knew about him. In fact, a Roman centurion knew about Jesus because he bought his slave to Him to be healed.
Judas must have known that is the place Jesus planned to go after the Last Supper. They probably discussed it.
How many other Jews in the Garden of Gethsemane would identify Jesus for the Roman soldiers? There were only the disciples as far as I know. They wanted proof from JUDAS that it was Jesus. He knew Jesus closely. You are assuming that those same Roman soldiers saw Jesus causing a commotion? That they watched him lash out in the Temple? You forget faces, too, you know.
In other words, you don't know.
So Jesus caused all the sufferings in the first place?
..
Lucifer gains nothing? He even has a tribute to him on the American dollar bill. He gains the whole world.
It is not only God who is powerful but the devil, too, and those ET's are from Satan. All I can surmise is that Satan is an intruder on this earth. How it all truly came about is a mystery to us all. All I know is that the universe is a balance between negatives and positives. So without Jesus, God and Satan would have the same amount of power.
When it comes to evil, I don't necessarily mean only murder, rape, etc. It includes selfishness when one tramples over others to get what they want. I means hurting others in a spiteful way. It includes any ill will from jealousy, etc. There is no person on earth who is completely good and without sin. We are inclined to have a me, me, me attitude. That is not from God. It's also sad that you think our only desires are to eat and procreate. I'd think we are more than that and have more worth. How about helping others, etc?
But you don't have to be a psychopath to commit extreme evil. That doesn't make sense that ignorance means no harm done. Very few know about the atrocities that go on inside the Vatican but that doesn't mean no harm is done! I don't understand how this pertains to God allowing ET's to manipulate human DNA? And might I add, God allowed Jesus to have these same genetics. How else could He have been tempted to do things in the first place that was not from God? It's just that He never gave in to it.
That's because you don't understand.
Think of the egg analogy!
I think it would be better to say there is no time in the singular even though we perceive it that way. In the fourth dimensions, time is considered united with space and physics.
No, there were no two bodies. God does not have a physical body. From the beginning, Jesus was one with the Father as the Holy Spirit. It was only when He came into this world, that He got "separated" by assuming the body of a spirit. The Father did not do that.
His permissive will was to allow Jesus to die by crucifixion.
We wouldn't even been given the opportunity to repent without Jesus. No, dead is when there is no pulse and brain waves. You are not in a coma when you die on the cross. What you say doesn't make sense at all. Dead is dead.
What? That is so weird. Sophistication is not measured by how many structures there are. No one today knows how the Egyptians could have built the Great Pyramids of Giza.
That's nonsense. If I was in trouble and you saved me, would I say you brought trouble onto me so that you could get the opportunity to save me? No, God uses suffering that Satan causes for our spiritual refinement. He is not the cause of it.
Still waiting for that new generation to be immune.
Don't talk nonsense. It is not just all or nothing. Nothing in history is plain black and white.
So you are saying God is out there to send you to hell? No, I don't think He'd send His son to die for our sins so that we can be redeemed just to toss you into hell because He wants to. It is sin that destroys the person, not God.
That is because upon death, there is no sense of time. That criminal who repented to Jesus on the cross died that day but he is already resurrected which would be perceived as instant even though thousands of years have passed. Time is perception.
Should I say, based on the theory of relativity, Einstein came to the conclusion that time is an illusion.
http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm
The same way Muhammad converted those people.
It is hadith, but that is not what we were discussing. People did believed that even though they have no proof.
You must know, according to you it is miracles that convince people.
But the lies he said will him one. We do not know the deal doesn’t make his lies truth.
But no one noticed him to write about him? By clairvoyance did Judas knew?
And the Jews who desperately wanted him killed forgot his face?
It means you have not taken the trouble to read anything about it.
If he is god.
That is your conviction. They have done it for your god. So if the god is Lucifer what you say is true, the dollar bill is a tribute to him.
Mystery to you for you create the mystery. So your god is not powerful? There is no negative and positive. How does our desire to eat and procreate as less worthy? Isn’t saying that we are genetically programmed by satan that makes us “less worthy”?
What is this extreme evil that is done in secret?
What is the “atrocity that is done in Vatican”?
Yes one need to be a psychopath to do extreme evil.
Jesus was a myth so we do not have to bother about genetics. And according to the gospel jesus was an a-moralist, imperialist and violent.
Well according to you gods allowed satan to manipulate human DNA that he is programmed to sin, didin’t he?
I do not understand nonsense, do you?
Who is there in the fourth dimension to consider? Please talk sense.
Egg, it is the white and yellow together make egg, alone neither is egg.
Body of spirit? Can you talk English with the words as is meant? How can god separate from god, if there is only one?
So god is spirit? That means there are two spirits, god spirit and holy spirit and a body without spirit – jesus.
What is permissive will? Who decided that the only way to save humans was death of Jesus?
Why don’t we get an opportunity to repent? Who is giving the opportunity? As we are discussing about the supposed death, I am not answering here.
People who study about it knows, b y putting one stone over the other – man power.
If I gave you trouble without your knowledge and then helped you then how will it be. That is the same with god. He brings trouble so that people will worship him.
We are immune to very many diseases in case you do not know and very rarely does epidemics occur.
So you can pick and choose?
You are the one who says god is going to send me to hell. If he wants to redeem he just do not need to ACT death. Jesus didn’t die, he was well and active after two days.
Jesus didn’t say it after death but before and here today means today. You do not know relativity either.The Jews may have known, but not the Romans. They wanted proof of who Jesus was. Judas was a disciple of Jesus, so he could verify.
God is powerful but so is Satan. There is no omnipotence because God would not have let Satan corrupt mankind. There are negatives and positives. The atom is an example. It really is not our fault that we are "less worthy". God knows this. We will never stop sinning on our own because of this genetic manipulation. That is why God sent His Son to take on the penalty of sin on our behalf to be saved if we truly repented.
Child sacrifices, plans to destroy humanity, child sex trafficking. So many things.
You don't know about paedophillia in the Vatican?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/1 … 09246.html
Satanism in the Vatican:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/profe … ecia10.htm
Psychopaths do evil but there are some who are mentally fine who do extreme evil as well. There are some who aren't even human.
Oh, you know for a fact that Jesus is a myth?
If God was omnipotent, then if would mean He did allow it but He is not.
How can anyone be in a dimension when it is considered time?
It's called parts of an egg. It comes from the same source.
Permissive will is God allowing suffering in the lives of those who love Him provided we can be spiritually refined through it. How else could people be saved when we will never stop sinning? As long as we sin, we are subject to Satan. If Jesus could take on the sin of the world, then'd be spared the consequences of sin.
Throughout our lives and in the next is being given opportunities to repent. Of course it is Jesus who gives us the opportunity to repent.
I just had to laugh, sorry.
You are assuming God that God gives the trouble in the first place.
Then we don't need vaccines, now do we?
Based on honest research, then yes.However, in the book of John, the author wrote: "So Judas came to the grove guiding a detachment of soldiers and SOME OFFICIALS FROM THE CHIEF PRIESTS…" (NIV Study Bible John 18:3
There were Jews too. And they all forget the face of their archenemy nonetheless.
Pray how the atom is an example? We are assuming a positive and negative to characteristics. And that genetic manipulation is not what make as less worthy but the fact that we live to eat and procreate. Satan is more powerful, neither he could prevent the genetic manipulation nor he is able to correct it, so satan is god. And god want to do drama to forgive, who is really manipulated, man or your god?
You know what, that is called a delusion. How many children are there in Vatican to traffic?
And you personally verified all those allegations?
That is about Vatican’s callous attitude, not about Vatican doing it. It is the same for any authority. You can accuse, by the same reasoning, Obama of shootings in schools.
A disillusioned priest is your evidence?
and you personally tested all those to say that they are perfectly normal?
Yea, lions do that, they are not at all human.
Yes.
So satan is more powerful, the god?
?
So Jesus and god are parts of god? So if they are part of god, when Jesus was dead there was no god? And they are separate parts, right?
So god do allow people to suffer, well I was under the impression that it was satan’s doing. How is the sin delivered to Jesus, in packets?
Why did god decide that, that is the only way?
So god cannot give us an opportunity? Why did Jesus wanted to act his death to give opportunity?
Naturally, you wanted a conspiracy theory and do not like what is actually happening.
It is your god, according to you. He allowed satan, vicarious liability. He did it so that people will believe nonsense and beg to him.
Irrelevant, your contention is that we can never be immune.
Finding conspiracy sites and asserting “spirit” guides you is not honest research. Neither finding anything that support your belief, nor saying thing that is nonsensical.
The situation we are discussing is where the disciples know that only Jesus can save them and was calling out to him. You are simply changing the scene for your Jesus to look good.
That is what all charlatans say, believe me I will cure you and give me your purse too.
Jesus didn’t know what lay ahead for him. Then how did he prophesize his death? Why was he praying to remove the cup? But if he didn’t know what would happen to him then surely he too was fooled by your god.
Unfortunately for him, though he is a powerful angel, he cannot do mind control. Consciousness is part of god and there is free will, no one can control it.
If all stories are Pagan then you cannot say that the one chosen by you is “revelation” but the other is pagan.
If you add Isaiah, Elijah some Psalms and a few other OT books to Odysseus (with Hectors death from Iliad) story which is transubstantiated and valued you will get Mark’s gospel. The other two are copies of Mark and John is a novel from the previous editions. Carpenter prince Odysseus goes to hell and come back he also travel through a stormy sea, so Mark converted the placid lake of Galilee to a stormy “sea of Galilee”.
Because nobody literally translates an old language which is basically monolingual, what we are doing is translating based on our present knowledge. So a god who is not of earth can be read as an alien/ET today. Your god by definition is ET.
That was a quote from the video you sent me. So if you do not think it as reliable, why did you sent it to me?
Your words “No, it was compiled as it is today in 325 AD”. NT was written just like the OT, by many authors, which was later compiled together.
The argument can be other way also; the minorities Satanists are a cover by the Christians to spread their religion.
Simply raising ones hand does not make one Satanist. That could be a symbol of your god.
The people who are shown, almost all, are people who work for your god. They themselves spread the fear of satan that more and more people turn towards your god. Deception is the weapon of your god, not Lucifer’s. After all he is not even here on earth for him to give a symbol.[Your god is satan, is it any wonder that your god’s followers show his symbol? This people simply says Lucifer name so that people will start worshipping your god.]
By saying that Lucifer is evil, and by some followers acting as followers as Lucifer and as bad he can get more followers.
According to the bible, it is god who does or is responsible for all evil (including his son’s death) and for me the one who does evil is satan. In bible Lucifer is equated mostly with satan and the only important thing he did was giving the apple to humans. As the one who gave the apple and as the one whom the evil god opposes, I presume, Lucifer is good. I know nothing about Lucifer outside the bible. The Lucifer that is depicted by Christians is all Pagan. Even most of the Satan in OT also is Pagan – Persian, opponent of Ahura Mazda. In other words the NT satan is also pagan.
Unlike Vatican, no one has seen Lucifer.
The first city is Uruk and the first literature is by Sargon’s daughter (She may not be the true author). Myths are myths, if civilization started 10000 years before some of it should leave evidence, for it does not exist in isolation. And it is not easy availability of; luxuries but hardships and difficulties that bring together a society for civilization to form.
It needs intelligence to manipulate an ancient text to fit it to the present. Every age does that, but that is mere manipulation and not what is written in that book of violence(another character of evil) which thought a star can only destroy a part of earth.
Still he failed to create a “one world order”!!
Which enemy? Not all can be fooled at a time?
Only when the Christian wrote the book!
Death means death; there is nothing after it to repent.
Sincerely seek god? Mr. Paul was not seeking god.
The 12 disciples are also one with god, in spirit or body?
So how did the Muslims believed? Also anyone outside Judea had only the disciples’ word even a disciple who has not even heard or seen Jesus, so how did they convert?
So people so Muhammad flying to heaven and that is why they believed him? But according to Quran it was only Muhammad’s words, nobody else saw him going. What about other religious founders like Mirza Gulam, Sai Baba, Naram Sin, Akhnaten, Plotinus, Mani, John Knox…..?
I said I cannot figure out what your god offered god, the ‘deal’.
Then there was no need to kiss. It is specifically said as an identification mark. If all knew him, there was no need for such identification.
Psychology and sense alone is enough to debunk. All the psychics claims are the same and the mechanism behind are the same like cold reading.
He was the follower of your god, does not make him special nor does the fact that he was able to fool a few people.
Yet people worship only your god when they suffer, Lucifer has nothing to gain. And according to your “god can kick Lucifer’s butt”, but still permits Lucifer to bring sufferings, that means Lucifer is just an agent to your god.
Human being do not feel the need to do evil, but feel the need to attain resources that they can better procreate. {Extreme evil people as common as extreme good people, that is rare and is a genetic problem}. If the DNA was not manipulated humans would behave just like chimpanzees, which might have been what your god wanted that they sing praises for him.
If you do understand then you should be able to explain yourself in coherent logical way without contradicting yourself and in a way that makes sense.
IS God not omnipresent? So jesus body was not god, his spirit was not god so which part of jesus was god? Dimension, you mean there is a dimension other than time, length, width and height? Yes you said, but you didn’t say which part of jesus is god. You also said separation from god is hell. If jesus is separate from god the all the 33 years he was in hell not 2 days.
The bible says that god willed his son’s death, that it was his plan. So why blame others for his plan?
God allowed those whom he loves to enter earth, what is the problem there? He didn’t allow Lucifer because Lucifer helps humans. Your god is the one who create sufferings and that sufferings help him get more followers.
If god wanted as to have salvation, he could simply have given it. Jesus didn’t lay down his life, after two days he was well and active.
If Satan was as intelligent as you say, then why didn’t he invent modern technology?
Most people flocked to god after that. Survivors after a plane crash thank god.
There are some people with immunity to AIDS, don’t you know? People eventually develop immunity to disease and the killing powers of diseases are decreasing day by day. Every animal will develop immunity to diseases otherwise they will perish. That does not mean you won’t get any flu, it means you have less chance of dying by a flu.
Then why should one worship god?
The % of truth in OT and NT are same, one cannot use two different yard sticks.
Isn’t that obvious that Jesus faked? He was well and active after two days. You failed to treat the analogy as analogy and took it literally. Your god is out there to kill me and he himself is sparing me by acting his death, so where is the sacrifice? If he wanted to spare me why should he dramatize his death?Claire: "It is true that they did believe in Him but there are moments of weakness where we put logic ahead of faith. For example, Peter knew Jesus but when he walked on water he panicked. Jesus is teaching us to trust in Him even when it doesn't seem practical."
BUDDINSENSE: The situation we are discussing is where the disciples know that only Jesus can save them and was calling out to him. You are simply changing the scene for your Jesus to look good.
Why did the disciples know that Jesus could save them? They had witnesses His prior miracles. They know He was the son of God.
Claire: Many people who saw Jesus' miracles did not or ever did believe in Him. Faith would not be exercised if one didn't believe first without actually knowing. Jesus had faith in God even though He often didn't have any idea what lay ahead for Him.
BUDDINSENSE Jesus didn’t know what lay ahead for him. Then how did he prophesize his death? Why was he praying to remove the cup? But if he didn’t know what would happen to him then surely he too was fooled by your god.
I don't believe Jesus from the start knew what lay ahead. I think it only dawned on Him later when God chose to reveal it to Him at the right time. It is completely human for Jesus to ask to be delivered. Terrible things awaited Him. He asked for deliverance IF it was God's will. He had to accept it when He realized that is not what God planned. He certainly didn't know what Hell was like.
Claire: Since Jesus is the son of God, He can ask God to enslave the minds of everyone on earth to automatically serve Him as robots. For the supernatural, that is hardly a hard thing to do.
BUDDINSENSE Unfortunately for him, though he is a powerful angel, he cannot do mind control. Consciousness is part of god and there is free will, no one can control it.
If consciousness is part of God, then are you part of God as a conscious being?
Claire: You can't just say because you believe one book is a pagan story then the other one must automatically be.
BUDDINSENSE If all stories are Pagan then you cannot say that the one chosen by you is “revelation” but the other is pagan.
You are assuming that all stories in the Bible are pagan but you provide no proof or explanation.
Claire: Elaborate.
BUDDINSENSE If you add Isaiah, Elijah some Psalms and a few other OT books to Odysseus (with Hectors death from Iliad) story which is transubstantiated and valued you will get Mark’s gospel.
The other two are copies of Mark and John is a novel from the previous editions. Carpenter prince Odysseus goes to hell and come back he also travel through a stormy sea, so Mark converted the placid lake of Galilee to a stormy “sea of Galilee”.
Let's explain this story because I am incredulous that you think this story could possibly lead to Mark. It is such a stretch that I have to laugh. I'm sorry.
"Odysseus' return from Troy, chronicled in the Odyssey, took ten years and was beset by perils and misfortune. He freed his men from the pleasure-giving drugs of the Lotus-Eaters, rescued them from the cannibalism of the Cyclopes and the enchantments of Circe. He braved the terrors of the underworld with them, and while in the land of the dead Hades allowed Thiresias, Odysseus' mother, Ajax and others to give him adivice on his next journey. They gave him important advice about the cattle of the sun (which Apollo herds), Scylla and Charybdis and the Sirens. From there on the travels were harder for Odysseus, but they would have been much worse of it wasn't for the help of the dead.
With this newly acquired knowledge, he steered them past the perils of the Sirens and of Scylla and Charybdis. He could not save them from their final folly, however, when they violated divine commandments by slaughtering and eating the cattle of the sun-god. As a result of this rash act, Odysseus' ship was destroyed by a thunderbolt, and only Odysseus himself survived. He came ashore on the island of the nymph Calypso, who made him her lover and refused to let him leave for seven years. When Zeus finally intervened, Odysseus sailed away on a small boat, only to be shipwrecked by another storm. He swam ashore on the island of the Phaeacians, where he was magnificently entertained and then, at long last, escorted home to Ithaca.
Was Odysseus killed then resurrected? No, he goes to hell like some Chuck Norris and asks others for some advice on how to proceed then comes back just to have his ship destroyed by a thunderbolt. Then he sails away in a boat just to be ship wrecked by a storm. If you that this has anything to do with Jesus is absolute nonsense. You know it is completely removed by the stories in Mark.
Then you need to explain how Elijah and Psalms fit into this.
I don't know where you get the carpenter part. He was a hunter and warrior.
Claire: I am not sure what book you are talking about? How can extra-terrestrial involvement in the Bible, the OT that is, possibly be a preconceived notion? I wasn't taught that.
Yes, but the OT is relevant to Christianity. Much of the references of God are of extra-terrestrials. Genesis takes of God saying, "Let US make man in our image." I do believe there are references to my God in the OT but they are few and far between. His true character shines in the New Testament. I don't see ET involvement there.
BUDDINSENSE Because nobody literally translates an old language which is basically monolingual, what we are doing is translating based on our present knowledge. So a god who is not of earth can be read as an alien/ET today. Your god by definition is ET.
Still don't know how this spills over to the New Testament. There were extra-terrestrials in the Old Testament and then there were hues of God there as well as I know Him. They are not the same. It is the latter God that is the Father of Jesus.
BUDDINSENSE WROTE:
“We think of the bible as a book "arranged" a thousand years ago, Not so, It was "Fixed" between the 7th and 9th century AD. 600 to 800 AD
Claire: I know the Old Testament was written over a thousand years but the New Testament? No, it was compiled as it is today in 325 AD
BUDDINSENSE That was a quote from the video you sent me. So if you do not think it as reliable, why did you sent it to me?
Where in the video does Mauro Biglino say the NT was finalized in AD 600 - 800 AD?
BUDDINSENSE WROTE:
Out of all the schools which were the Palestinian, Samaritan, Babylonian and Tiberian, It was the family of the Tiberian School”
That is true, then so is the NT.
Claire: Why do you automatically assume that is true for the New Testament.
BUDDINSENSE Your words “No, it was compiled as it is today in 325 AD”.
It was written just like the OT, by many authors, which was later compiled together.
So you think the NT came from the Tiberian School? The gospels, I might add, were in the form of oral tradition for a couple of decades. Who were these myriad writers?
Claire: Who emerged stronger as in control of this world? Lucifer, of course. People in power claim to be Christian but they are Satanists covertly. Christianity is a cover. Our world leaders worship Lucifer.
Let's consider a quote from Manly P Hall, a 33rd degree Freemason:
"When a mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy"
So Freemasons do not worship my God.
BUDDINSENSE The argument can be other way also; the minorities Satanists are a cover by the Christians to spread their religion.
Let me inform you that Christianity is dying. Religious references in schools have been abolished. Why would Christians say they are Satanists? That would be counter-productive. The truth is that there are far more Satanists out there than people realize. They can come in the form of entertains, bankers, doctors, teachers. They get away with it by claiming they are good Christians to fool people.
Claire: See, the world leaders are nothing more than devil worshipers.
BUDDINSENSE Simply raising ones hand does not make one Satanist. That could be a symbol of your god.
The people who are shown, almost all, are people who work for your god. They themselves spread the fear of satan that more and more people turn towards your god. Deception is the weapon of your god, not Lucifer’s. After all he is not even here on earth for him to give a symbol.[Your god is satan, is it any wonder that your god’s followers show his symbol? This people simply says Lucifer name so that people will start worshipping your god.
That hand signal is a Satanic salute. That is a fact. It is called the El Diablo hand signal. It is definitely not a symbol of my God. Which of the people I mentioned spread the fear of Satan? None of those people are followers of God? Lucifer is on earth, unfortunately.
Claire: Liars don't always use complete lies. They can also say half-truths. I don't know you assume that lies are being said about Lucifer. You've never told me how you came to your beliefs.
BUDDINSENSE According to the bible, it is god who does or is responsible for all evil (including his son’s death) and for me the one who does evil is satan. In bible Lucifer is equated mostly with satan and the only important thing he did was giving the apple to humans. As the one who gave the apple and as the one whom the evil god opposes, I presume, Lucifer is good. I know nothing about Lucifer outside the bible. The Lucifer that is depicted by Christians is all Pagan. Even most of the Satan in OT also is Pagan – Persian, opponent of Ahura Mazda. In other words the NT satan is also pagan.
Some people in the OT perceived God as being both responsible for good and evil. We know this is not what Jesus believed. The Lord Prayer goes, "...and deliver us from evil." How can God deliver us from something he is responsible for? Giving the apple in the Garden of Eden has nothing to do with Lucifer providing knowledge to the world. According to the Sumerian text, the Garden of Eden was the domain of the gods. They genetically modified people to do labour for them. It is surmised that Adam and Eve are the first genetically modified people. The genetic modified people were made to be compliant. They evolved in such a way that they eventually rebelled against the Annunaki. That is what Adam and Eve biting in the apple represented. They had rebelled against "God". You know nothing about Lucifer outside of the Bible??? So by default you follow him because you don't like the sound of God? How do you know if the Garden of Eden story is even true? Satan is not mentioned much in the OT. In fact, Jews don't believe in Satan like the Christians do. They see him as a challenger. To give us hard times so that we can spiritually grow and become closer to God. He is God's assistant. This is a stark contrast to how Christians know Satan. Satan is the enemy of God. God wants us to have nothing to do with Satan. He knows that nothing good can come out of that. The Lord Prayer says, "Lead us not into temptation". So how can Satan tempting us be any good to God? The OT is very pagan and is in opposition to the NT. There the NT is not pagan.
Claire: Is it not a logical fallacy to assume just because you think Christians are liars that their enemy must be righteous. Lucifer also is in allegiance with Christians to corrupt the church. A perfect example is the Vatican. He plays both sides when it suits him.
BUDDINSENSE Unlike Vatican, no one has seen Lucifer.
If want you know of Lucifer is from the Bible then how do you know no one can see him?? You are making that up.
Claire: It doesn't take so much intellect to figure out what the mark in Revelation was talking about. What could it mean in today's standards? After all, it is this era that Revelation is dealing with.
BUDDINSENSE It needs intelligence to manipulate an ancient text to fit it to the present. Every age does that, but that is mere manipulation and not what is written in that book of violence(another character of evil) which thought a star can only destroy a part of earth.
So you are saying the evil followers of god in power are coordinating events to fit Revelation?? I don’t think so. As events happen we can look at Revelation and so how it is coming to fruition. Let's take, for example, Revelation 8:9
"A third of the living creatures in the sea died. A third of the ships were destroyed."
As a result of the Fukushima nuclear meltdown in Japan the Pacific ocean is heavily irradiated. There are mass die offs of sea life. In a few years, it is surmised that the whole of the Pacific ocean will be dead. We know that the Pacific ocean is a third of the earth's surface. Therefore it is true what Revelation states when it says that a third of all living creatures in the sea died.
Claire: Well, apparently he kicks Lucifer's butt.
BUDDINSENSE Still he failed to create a “one world order”!!
He never wanted a New World Order!
Claire: Not all the people who saw Jesus were His followers. He stayed on earth for weeks after the resurrection. Many of His enemies saw Him.
BUDDINSENSE Which enemy? Not all can be fooled at a time?
Like those who put Him to death. I think if there was no resurrection the Pharisees would quickly squash that rumour by observing for themselves a body. No Jesus text ever denies Jesus rose from the dead.
Claire: No, he was just upstaged. That is, backed into a corner.
BUDDINSENSE Only when the Christian wrote the book!
I don't think Pilate appreciated the Jews telling him what to do but they backed him into a corner.
Claire: However, in death we all get to see the truth and have a chance to repent when seeing Jesus. How fair would it be if that was not the case? What about people who have never heard of Jesus when they were alive on earth? Would they go to hell for that? Absolutely not. The gift of free will is the reason why there aren't magnificent signs in the skies. If people all saw God they would be terrified to the extent that they would worship Him out of fear of hell. However, God makes His presence obvious to those who seek Him. Jesus on earth never forced anyone to worship Him. He allowed us to come to Him instead. He gives space to those who dedicate their lives to them.
BUDDINSENSE Death means death; there is nothing after it to repent.
Sincerely seek god? Mr. Paul was not seeking god.
So you don't think there is consciousness after death? Then clearly no one can suffer in hell. Often people don't make a conscious effort to seek God but God can see that they can be stirred by His doing. For example, God saw the potential in Paul. He knew in advance that he will accept Him. Mary didn't ask to be impregnated by God but God knew she would be willing in advance.
Claire: We are not on the same page. Jesus is one with God so there are no separate disciples. Would you really believe someone who claimed something who appeared to have conviction without seeing for yourself? They could be a schizo for all you know.
BUDDINSENSE The 12 disciples are also one with god, in spirit or body?
I meant there were no separate bodied not disciples.
BUDDINSENSE So how did the Muslims believed? Also anyone outside Judea had only the disciples’ word even a disciple who has not even heard or seen Jesus, so how did they convert?
Those outside of Israel were converted by Paul. He did miracles in the name of Jesus. The Muslims believed because Mohammed created the religion in cahoots with aliens.
Claire: I believe Mohammed flew away but not on a horse. I believe it was symbolic of disappearing in a space-craft. In the Chinese civilization, the fiery dragon is actually a space craft which we know emits fire. In the OT, Elijah was supposed to have flown to heaven on a fiery chariot. This is also indicate of a space craft. I think people described Mohammed's craft as a horse because they didn't know what the heck a space craft was.
BUDDINSENSE So people so Muhammad flying to heaven and that is why they believed him? But according to Quran it was only Muhammad’s words, nobody else saw him going.
Can you give me that Quran verse.
BUDDINSENSE What about other religious founders like Mirza Gulam, Sai Baba, Naram Sin, Akhnaten, Plotinus, Mani, John Knox…..?
What about them?
Claire: So because you don't know his thoughts then he must be a liar?
BUDDINSENSE I said I cannot figure out what your god offered god, the ‘deal’.
Then you can't assume Paul was a liar then.
Claire: Judas knew the location where Jesus was so they bribed him to reveal the location. It doesn't mean they didn't know of Him. It just means they didn't know where He was at that time. I think it could have been in Pilate's best interest if Jesus was located since Jesus was causing a lot of trouble which put His head on the chopping block.
BUDDINSENSE Then there was no need to kiss. It is specifically said as an [i]identification mark. If all knew him, there was no need for such identification. [/i]
You are assuming that all of them knew what Jesus looked like. The Roman soldiers that arrested him surely did not know what He looked like.
Claire: So you have analyzed all the psychics that have ever lived and debunked their claims? Jesus was not just a human being.
BUDDINSENSE Psychology and sense alone is enough to debunk. All the psychics claims are the same and the mechanism behind are the same like cold reading.
He was the follower of your god, does not make him special nor does the fact that he was able to fool a few people.
So tell me exact how the mechanisms they use that give away their fraud?
BUDDINSENSE WROTE:
Who create the sufferings in the first place, your god.
Claire: Satan, or Lucifer as you know him.
BUDDINSENSE Yet people worship only your god when they suffer, Lucifer has nothing to gain. And according to your “god can kick Lucifer’s butt”, but still permits Lucifer to bring sufferings, that means Lucifer is just an agent to your god.
It is called permissive will. God can use suffering for our good. He didn't cause it in the first place. God permits Lucifer's presence on earth because humans have chosen Lucifer as their god. They are exercising the free will God gave them.
Claire: Achieved the ability to know the difference between right and wrong without Lucifer? Evil extra-terrestrials manipulated our DNA to know the difference between right and wrong and to have the desire to do evil. And, of course, to you Lucifer was responsible for that. I mean, why does any human being feel the need to do unspeakable evil
BUDDINSENSE Human being do not feel the need to do evil, but feel the need to attain resources that they can better procreate. {Extreme evil people as common as extreme good people, that is rare and is a genetic problem}. If the DNA was not manipulated humans would behave just like chimpanzees, which might have been what your god wanted that they sing praises for him.
How do you know that extreme evil is rare? The worst evil there is, is not known to people. Most people won't flaunt their extreme evil to the world. Most of it is done in secret. Chimps don't sing praises to God in case you don't know. How can God have a spiritual meaningful relationship with a chimp? We wouldn't even know He existed.
BUDDINSENSE If you do understand then you should be able to explain yourself in coherent logical way without contradicting yourself and in a way that makes sense.
You contradict yourself.
Claire: To hell. Hell is a spiritual dimension. A dimension where there is no God. And did I not say that Jesus and God were separate in this earthly dimension?
BUDDINSENSE IS God not omnipresent? So jesus body was not god, his spirit was not god so which part of jesus was god? Dimension, you mean there is a dimension other than time, length, width and height?
He actually is not omnipresent. He cannot possibly be in hell. I keep telling you that Jesus was separated by God in that He took on a human body. His spirit is one with God in the form of the Holy Spirit. God does not have a human body which Jesus had. Yes, there are other dimensions other than time, length, etc. Time is the fourth dimension.
BUDDINSENSE Yes you said, but you didn’t say which part of jesus is god. You also said separation from god is hell. If jesus is separate from god the all the 33 years he was in hell not 2 days.
As I said, there spirits are one in the form of the Holy Spirit. Jesus took on the form of a human which God did not do. That is the separation. They didn't have separate spirits.
Claire: Why would God WANT His Son to die? Anyway, He did not kill Him own Son. People who hated Him did.
BUDDINSENSE The bible says that god [i]willed his son’s death, that it was his plan. So why blame others for his plan?[/i]
God most certainly didn't want Jesus to die but it was His permissive will. It was the only way to save us.
Claire: Why would God prevent anything coming to earth when that would mean there would be no suffering to feed on like you espouse? So why did He allow those who love and serve Him to enter earth?
BUDDINSENSE God allowed those whom he loves to enter earth, what is the problem there? He didn’t allow Lucifer because Lucifer helps humans. Your god is the one who create sufferings and that sufferings help him get more followers.
Are you telling me that Lucifer has never been to earth? Then how could he help humans??
Claire: God allowed Jesus to die because it would be the only way we would have salvation. It was an act of love. There is no greater love than one who lays down their life for another like Jesus did.
BUDDINSENSE If god wanted as to have salvation, he could simply have given it. Jesus didn’t lay down his life, after two days he was well and active.
He cannot give salvation to those who love evil. They don't want it. He can only offer the evil the opportunity of salvation if they truly repent. It doesn't matter if Jesus was dead for only two days. He still died. We will also die and resurrect like He did.
Claire: How else could Lucifer enslave the world without modern technology? With a microchip our every move can be followed. It can be switched off when he likes it and prevent us from being recognized as a person so one cannot continue with a business they may have and can't buy food. During the days of Jesus how could global enslavement be achieved?
BUDDINSENSE If Satan was as intelligent as you say, then why didn’t he invent modern technology?
Who says he hasn't? Human civilization have risen and fallen along with their technology? Where did the Egyptians get the technology to build the pyramids and how did they do it?? Technology is not due to humans. It is handed down to them from ET who work on his behalf.
Claire: So you are telling me that the people in the Philippines all flocked to God when Typhoon Haiyan came and destroyed their lives? Are you telling me that people who have AIDS, for example, will be immune to AIDS eventually? There is no disease that I'm aware of that makes people immune from it completely. If only I could never have 'flu again! Do you realized just how the population would be without disease in Africa? If disease did not ever exist in the world do you think the population there would not explode? It is keeping the numbers down but it is also true that modern medicine is lengthening the lives of those who have access to it.
BUDDINSENSE Most people flocked to god after that. Survivors after a plane crash thank god.
That does not mean a full on conversion. We often thank God for something when we get our way then later forget Him. Not saying this is the case with the Philipinos but it often is the case with people in general.
BUDDINSENSE There are some people with immunity to AIDS, don’t you know? People eventually develop immunity to disease and the killing powers of diseases are decreasing day by day. Every animal will develop immunity to diseases otherwise they will perish. That does not mean you won’t get any flu, it means you have less chance of dying by a flu.
That's got nothing to do with being exposed to disease thus making one's immune system stronger. It means that they have a gene that makes them immune. And how many people on earth are like that? I have a feeling that no one will be immune just because their immune system gets stronger. After all, ARV's boost an AID's patient immune system but they will never get rid of AIDS.
Claire: Neither of them is entitled to be worshiped.
BUDDINSENSE Then why should one worship god?
Because I can't help it because of what He has done for mankind.
Claire: Don't turn it on me now. What is true in the Old Testament to you?
BUDDINSENSE The % of truth in OT and NT are same, one cannot use two different yard sticks.
Why are you dodging my question? What is true in the OT to you?
Claire: Tigers don't think along those lines. If a tiger spared someone it would not mean that he would not attack again. It means he doesn't think that person is a threat or isn't hungry. This cannot be a serious analogy? Are you suggesting that Jesus faked His own death on the cross?
BUDDINSENSE Isn’t that obvious that Jesus faked? He was well and active after two days. You failed to treat the analogy as analogy and took it literally. Your god is out there to kill me and he himself is sparing me by acting his death, so where is the sacrifice? If he wanted to spare me why should he dramatize his death?
What is the analogy? Where'd you get the idea that God is trying to kill you?? How?? I've explained to you many times why Jesus died and resurrected. I'm not regurgitating it for you over and over again.
You said,
Jesus is god then said Jesus is separate from god.
You said Jesus has a separate body and soul from god and you said some part of Jesus is still god, though you didn’t say which part.
You said separation from god is hell and you said Jesus was separate from god while he was here on earth but still said he was in hell only for the three days while he was dead, so when was he in hell.
You said Jesus was dead for three days but which part of jesus was dead and which part was separate from god?
You said Jesus sacrificed, but what did he sacrifice, His soul was intact and his body he got it two days back? Also it was said in bible that it was the will and command of god that Jesus die, he was simply obeying his father, and so where is the sacrifice?
If God and Jesus are one, it turns out that it was Jesus will and command that he die so that he can forgive, so why didn’t he forgive without such deceptive tactics?
And all these while Satan was not even near, so how did this fake death vanquish satan?
So why did you say he died?
How does one feed misery? If you say satan is a sadist who likes to see people suffering I can understand but why should satan, a mighty being according to you, wants to see puny humans suffering?Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit in the spiritual world. He assumed the role of the son on earth. He doesn't have a separate soul from God. When I say the complete separation from God is hell, it doesn't include the human body. So Jesus' soul, that being God's as well, was completely separate from God. This may sound absolute nonsense and full of contradictions but Jesus was the son and the Father in His spirit. Therefore if God, although sharing the same soul with Jesus, did not forgive man's sin that Jesus took responsibility for, He'd be lost to Satan, along with Jesus, forever as they are one.
The sacrifice was Him taking on the penalty of sin which is hell. He did that so that we could be forgiven of our sin. If He did not do that then we'd be lost to Satan forever. Jesus still suffers today as He shares it with us. It's not like He suffered death and got His spirit back and ascended into heaven and that was that. Jesus didn't have to obey His Father. He could have commanded the angels to deliver Him. He actually asked God if it was possible for Him to escape death and hell. But then He said, "Let Your will be done not mine."
Explained that already.
Satan was there in the Garden of Gethsemane. In fact, He constantly harassed Jesus on earth. It is only through death that Jesus could take on the sin of the world because the penalty of sin is in the spirit domain. The proof of the conquering of Satan was the resurrection and that couldn't be proven if He hadn't died.
He died so that evil people could get the opportunity to repent for evil. Their sins can be forgiven if they truly repent. If they don't, then they choose Satan.
When we feel misery, it emits low frequencies which he can actually absorb as a spirit. It's actually food. It doesn't matter if it just us insignificant beings. It all adds up. And the best food is feeding off the misery of those who love God. He knows how much God loves us so it is just so much better to see Him suffer as well.
If by "devil worshiper" you mean "devout Catholic."
And he needed a cover...why? He was a dictator. He didn't have to explain nothin' to nobody.
And he was very much Catholic.Guess who painted this delightful little scene:
(On a side note, really? That's not good enough to get you into German art school? I couldn't paint that if my life depended on it!)So painting a picture of a woman and her child makes you Catholic? I was a nun and can't paint a thing. Obviously my faith must be counterfeit.
You're not fooling anyone. Especially anyone familiar with TVTropes.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M … gStupidityIt is true that some of us hide our ignorance and stupidity far better than others. Or at least you, I mean we, think we do.
That women certainly is not dressed German.
Thank you, but why that link? And I don't understand why he was turned down, I won't be able to draw even half as good as that!
Sounded as you doubted Hitler painted that - I know it was a surprise to me. Hitler seems to have done quite a few paintings.
The picture Zekiro posted was not a surprise but the rest are a surprise indeed. Motown2Chitown was saying that it was simply a women not Mary and her son. But as the dress looks like the ones that are usually painted with Mary and Jesus (and as nobody know how Mary or jesus look like) I think he drew Mary and Jesus.
My point is that even if the painting is the artist's rendering of Mary and Jesus, it's not evidence of the artist's faith. Painting a Madonna and child does not make one very much Catholic any more than anything else. Chinese factories churn out Chrisitian themed art in mass quantities. Does that mean that the Chinese government is therefore very much Christian?
Show me how the entire Nazi regime is based on the doctrine of the Catholic Church, and perhaps that will be enough to convince me that Hitler was "very much Catholic." Then show me how Catholic people who hid and aided Jews during the Holocaust were NOT persecuted and prosecuted by Hitler because they were Catholic. That might convince me that Hitler was "very much Catholic." The picture isn't evidence of anything but artistic inclination.Given the amount of detail and passion in the Madonna over any other of his works, it's easy to tell that it was his most personal and most cherished work. Hitler loved him some Jesus.
Oh! So the beautiful work of an accomplished stone mason who build a religious shrine must be evidence of his deep and abiding faith.
How could I possibly doubt that premise? You have successfully illustrated my stupidity. I bow before your superior gifts of logic and intellect.Nope. It was his application to the Masons' union.
Just to play devils advocate here.... Didn't Hitler notably say that his hatred of the Jews was partially because they were "Christ killers" and he was doing the lord's work? Wasn't his birthday declared a Holiday BY the Vatican, and he was never excommunicated, which would insinuate that he was, in fact, a catholic? He himself claimed to be catholic, and if you say he wasn't a "true" catholic, you run into the "no true Scotsman fallacy"
My argument isn't that he was or was not Catholic. It is that the painting isn't the brilliant piece of prolf that he was. If he was baptized into the Catholic church and confirmed then he was Catholic. My argument is that the painting isn't proof of faith but rather of artistic talent.
Hitler killed Jews, homosexuals, the developmentally disabled, the mentally ill, priests of the Catholic church, and many others. If his real motivation for the Holocaust was his "Catholic" faith and revenge against the Christ killers, then why was his genocide not limited to Jews? And, since the whole stupid, stupid argument from Christian anti semites is always that its because the Jews killed Christ, I'd like to just point out two things: Jesus was crucified by the Roman government, regardless of who turned him over to them, and was himself Jewish. Funny that anyone would feel compelled to exterminate anbentire race of people in the name of a member of said race.Hitler and his Italian counterpart had done a fine job of convinces it's citizens to hate the Jews for two reasons. 1. They were responsible for the death of Jesus, wether true or not that's what they thought and 2. The Jews were thought to be screwing with the economy by making lots of money, but not spending any.
I've spoken to many people of my generation living here who continued to believe that while I was growing up in an Italian Catholic area. My own father-in-law remembers what he was taught in school at the time of the war and makes the same comments. Kind of like the Mel Gibson comments.It's all in an effort to excuse and encourage the beliefs and behaviors of rotten people. People may point to anything they like as a reason but that doesn't excuse the behavior.
In essence, it boils down to this: destroying life isn't excusable, no matter a person's faith or lack thereof. It can't be justified by Christians, Muslims, atheist totalitarian regimes or anyone else, no matter how one tries to spin it because it's flat out wrong. So the people who want to blame it on what the destroyer uses to excuse it are just as wrong as the destroyer who attempts to justify it.You are of course correct, but the point is that people are able to convince themselves that anything is justifiable using religion. The OT has many passages that describes when it's justified to kill others. The subconscious can use these passages to get what it wants guilt free and they feel they are directed by God themselves to harm. The ego submits to the subconscious.
No argument there.
The unarguable point is that there is no legitimate justification.
*edit - No legitimate justification for hatred and destruction in the name of "love."Shhhh! Keep that to yourself, Mister! You'll spoil my image.
And to be fair, I didn't say he wasn't Catholic. I asked what "very much Catholic" meant to the individual who identified him as such.
Can't see that has much to do with art; Michelangelo contracted with the Pope to paint the Sistine Chapel. Being paid doesn't mean it isn't art.
Agreed. Not being paid to produce a work of art, however, doesn't provide any insight into a person's reason for producing it. That was the question's point, I think. That if the mason wasn't paid to produce the shrine he must have produced it as evidence of his own faith. Art for art's sake seems to be the reason for the artist. Else they are simply evagelists (for WHATEVER cause) with artistic inclinations rather than artists.
You are right that is not evidence but corroborative evidence. We usually don't draw a beautiful picture of something we don't like. Another corroborative evidence is the mass torture and murder of jews. Without christianity the "special" status of jew is not there and jew will only be another low(non aryan) race(according to Hitler). That again is not a strong evidence but only supportive.
I didn't see your later editing. The Christians who help jews are not true chritians according to Hitler. You can see it here, atleast for some christians, the christians who do not subscribe to their own denomination are not true Christians.Certainly only an opinion, but one does not churn out "art". China turns out icons, pretty pictures and cute statues, but not art.
Nor does one put their heart and soul into art that means nothing to them. The only time an artist does something like is when learning/experimenting with mechanics and techniques - not when they are actually producing art.That's not the issue, but then who am I to argue.
No one will ever know for sure if Hitler painted that as a representation of his religious feelings.
Nevertheless, it does have religious overtones. The colors used, the light beams, the mother/child subject; all of these are common in religious paintings. Add in that it was not done in a couple of hours, that it took many days or weeks to finish, and I think it likely that Hitler put "himself" into that painting; that he wasn't just tossing some pigment at a canvas out of boredom.
Probably religiously inspired, then, but no guarantees. Maybe a stylized scene from his childhood, maybe his mother or aunt - who really knows?
How many dictators come out and say they worship the devil? He was a member of the Vril Society, an occult group. They performed human sacrifices there.
The Vril society was founded by female mediums who were talking to aliens that had settled in Sumeria and were living on Alpha Cen Tauri in the Aldebaran system. Hitler was part of the society.
http://www.echoesofenoch.com/Musium13%2 … ociety.htm
It's all on the web, so it has to be true.You mean, the conspiracy sites are not evidence?
It is a fact that Hitler believed in the Aryan race. He had this thing about blonde, blue-eyed people. The Thule Society, which shares the same belief as the Vril Society (a German secret society), claimed the origin of the Aryan race.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 … 44508.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVl4vmVLX7w
You've got to ask yourself why did Hitler not use the crucifix as a symbol for the Nazi party if he was a devout Catholic?The Swastika IS a cross with the four arms bent 90 degrees. it is also a symbol that was used widely in various religions, it's meaning is translated as "higher self" or "to be good".
I'm not talking about a cross. I'm talking about a crucifix with the figure of Jesus on.
Considering the millions of people who suffer night terrors then the devil must be a very busy guy; rushing hither and thither across the world saying "Boo" to all those people whilst they sleep. It's a marvel how he manages to fit it all into his day besides all the things he gets up to like causing cars to break down; mutating DNA in individual cells in people's bodies to induce cancer; raiding bank accounts; stealing prosperity from hard working church goers; being the voice inside millions of people's heads telling them to be naughty; and flying about the sky pretending to be a UFO. I think he deserves a break don't you Claire?
Well, anything is possible. Perhaps they do come from negative beings, on occasion. It's difficult to say because there could be a number of reasons. The person could be merely having a nightmare or they might have a fever and be hallucinating. One would have to know all the details of the incident before a conclusion could be formed.
Anything that induces fear is from Satan.
- Are you getting any ecstasy while using the name "satan"? It appears you enjoy having depression and night terrors and enjoy telling that to everyone and enjoy saying that you have some special relationship with satan that he is out there giving you his gifts.
It is from the angel whom you call god.
If he was a devil worshipper why would the devil trouble him with night terrors? He was a Catholic. If he did worship the true god instead of either of the angels he would have had more sense. So what do you say, people with night terrors are worshippers of satan or do you say that they are psychotic like Hitler?The devil is an angel could God?
Why would he trouble Hitler with night terrors? It's because he hates everyone. He hates those who love Jesus more but he still hates the evil. In the case of Hitler, I think his night terrors were induced by possession.
Anyone can call themselves Catholic. I can call myself the Pope but does it make it so? It is how people BEHAVE that counts. Since when could he be a follower of Jesus when Jesus said those who live by the sword die by the sword. Hitler was into theosophy and that most certainly is not Christian.Good morning dear Claire. I am now going to offer a completely reasonable, yes logical explanation as to why Hitler had night terrors or as we should say nightmares. Adolf Hitler was a person totally bereft of conscious for humanity. He have admitted this ideology and philosophy ad infinitum.
He more than discriminated against those whom he considered to be his "unequals" be they Jews, Roma, Slavs, the LGBT community, and the challenged whether they be physical, emotionally, and/or mentally so. He also convertly discriminated against those who did not agree with his National Socialist construct. Yes, I am disgressing a bit. Hitler instituted extremely Draconian practices in Germany and in territories his regime occupied. Although many Europeans suffered under Hitler's regime, the ones who are the most adversely affected were the Jews, Roma(Gypsies), and Slavs. Hitler considered them to be so-called untermenschen, inferiors, and/or subhumans.
He instituted heinous and horrendous concentration and extermination camps in order to instill fear into the German population and to contain, eventually exterminate the Jews, Roma, and Slavs. According to your premise, Hitler had night terrors or nightmares because of an imaginary phantomic devil. If he had night terrors or nightmares, it was because of the heinous and horrifically destructive policies he instituted against humanity. It was his subconscious telling him that what he was doing was wrong and evil, nothing more, nothing less. There is no devil except for us humans. WE are the TRUE DEVILS of the world. Hitler was THE DEVIL if there was one.
???
The one whom you call god is just the first angel and as he thrives on fear and worship he could be the one who give night terrors.
Who hates everyone? Hitler had a wife and child, so he couldn't be hating everyone.
You mean satan? Then why should he hate "evil"? You appear to be deceived by the followers of the authority. Whom you call satan - Lucifer is just an angel, a wise angel. He do not give night terrors, he teach wisdom. It is the followers of the authority who bring bad things because he survives on people's fears.
And if night terrors is what anybody is going to get for worshipping him, why should anybody worship him? You say you have night terrors, so are you possessed?
Pope is a position, while catholic is just having a belief.
People of another denomination can say you are not a true christian, does that make you not christian? People behave based on what they interpret. Hitler believed his bible and thought that jews(by saying "His blood be on us, and on our children") needs to be punished and set about doing that, a simple mistake for anyone who believes the authority. See the authority is bent on creating strife and division among humans, it is only by making people sad and fearful that they worship him and only by their worship that he can live.Huh?
Who has fed you this nonsense? What wisdom has Lucifer imparted to mankind? So you are saying Lucifer thrives on people's fears but he is just a wise angel?
As I said, Satan hates the good and evil and won't be hesitate to try and torment both. Those who sell their souls to the devil really don't fully know what they are getting themselves into. They get tormented afterwards and don't know the way out. Of course people wouldn't follow Satan if they knew they would be tormented.
What I'm trying to say is that people can call themselves anything but it doesn't always make it so.
Hitler didn't believe such things. He was a Satanist. Since when would Jesus require the deaths of Jews to atone for their rejection of Him? Hitler didn't just hate Jews. He hated gypsies, homosexuals and the physically and mentally disabled.
Anyway, here's a quote from Hitler:
“It’s Christianity that’s the liar. It’s in perpetual conflict with itself.” -Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 61"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Hitler
Is the will of the Almighty Creator to live by the sword? What Jews threatened Hitler?
Do you believe what that liar says in public? It's called propaganda.Well, I guess you have all the inside scoop. We'll ignore everything he said and did and go with what you think then as you have such a great track record of being correct.
Propaganda. As in stories of turning water to wine, walking on water or living inside a fish for days at a time? It makes great propaganda, but that's about all...
Don't change the subject. Do you believe everything Hitler said especially when his actions contradicted his words?
I cannot speak for JMcFarland, however I believe that Hitler was sincere when he stated he was doing the Lord's work. He was a deeply disturbed person, who was paranoid and lusted for power. I don't give the devil any credit for what Hitler believed and did. That was all on Hitler. He did it himself.
Although we'll never know, it is quite possible. Throughout time, there have always been people doing vile deeds in God's name solely to extend their power over others. There have also been a steady stream of people doing those same things in an honest desire to please their god. From Abraham, willing to burn his own beloved son to placate his god to "god fearing people" murdering abortion doctors in gods name, people have done terrible things in gods name.
You can't be serious. Sincere he was doing the Lord's work? And you don't think politicians lie? Take this into consideration:
Cambridge historian Richard J. Evans writes:
..."Hitler and most of his leading advocates were aware of the breadth and depth of Christian allegiance in the majority of the population, and did not want to antagonize it in the course of suppressing parties such as the (Catholic Centre Party). They were thus careful in the early months of 1933 to insist repeatedly on the adherence of the new government to the Christian faith."
(From "The Coming of the Third Reich", by Richard L. Evans, pp. 362-363).
During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.[46] The same measures were taken in the occupied territories, in French Lorraine, the Nazis forbid religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious institutes were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures. 300 clergy were expelled from the Lorraine region, monks and nuns were deported or forced to renounce their vows.[47]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
This was a Hitler youth song:
We are the joyous Hitler youth,
We do not need any Christian virtue
Our leader is our savior
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone
We want to be pagans once again.”
Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, sceptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and confirmed as a child in Austria, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, Hitler became disdainful of Christianity, but in seeking out and in trying to retain power in Germany, he was prepared to restrain his radical instincts out of political considerations. It is generally believed by historians that Hitler's post war and long term goal was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ … olf_Hitler
Hitler was an occultist and that is devil worship.
Whom you call god is not god but an angel, simple.
Who fed "you" the nonsense? You believe what you believe because of propaganda. All the major religions and religious books are from satan, god do not write books. If you take the time to be with god, this will be revealed to you.
Lucifer taught mankind to think, didn't "impart" wisdom. It is not Lucifer that thrives on people's fear, it is the one whom you call god. And he is not actually living on people's fear but derive his power from people's fear. He got the majority of the world to work for him. Lucifer is just an angel, a wise angel. He do not need the people to survive.
How can any one hate "good and evil", either one hate good or one hate evil or one has no feelings toward either. They can stop following satan once they are tormented, but why don't they do so? If Hitler is possessed because he has night terrors then so are you as you too have night terrors, see how that logic is faulty. Those who sell their souls do not know what they are getting into. They thgink they are worshiping god. Satan, or the evil one certainly is not Lucifer. It is the one who brings volcano, earth quake, tornados.... and he is called god.
Exactly, calling oneself god(and the only god) won't make it god.
The so called god is the one who brings all the natural calamities, we should judge him by his character, shouldn't we?What makes you think this?
Who said that God wrote books?
Lucifer taught mankind to believe his lies. He perpetuates misery on the world pretending to be you liberator from a so-called oppressive God.
As I said, Satan hates the good and evil and won't be hesitate to try and torment both.
Who said only God has powers like omniscience?
God is universal consciousness not a deity. Deities are angels who like us can be good or bad. The most powerful one controls the earth and is worshipped by people as god. He brings all the natural disasters and other evils to this world.
Aren’t you reading what is written? What you know about god is from books written by followers of satan.
No. Lucifer only taught mankind to think. He made man think instead of being robots. Misery is perpetuated by the so called god and his followers so that people would worship him.
Yes the so called god – Satan does that, Lucifer do not. He is just a wise angel not a powerful angel.
God does not “set off”. Then “evil” is just a product of human interactions and nature, nothing to do with God or Satan. Your god sets off disasters (irrespective of natural or supernatural) because that makes people worship him. His propaganda makes people believe that disasters are from Satan, Lucifer. So whenever disasters strike he gets more followers.
Who is talking about omniscience?You're clearly a New Ager. So you are saying is that evil angels cause natural disasters and evil? Then it's not my God you are talking about.
Give me an example of God being written about by Satanists in the Bible? Books written by followers of Satan does not mean God wrote books.
Since you don't believe deities are intelligent beings then who is Satan? Are Satan and God both the universal consciousness? Then how can Satan torment?
You just agreed with my statement that Satan torments so how can you say evil now has nothing to do with Satan? Now you are saying that God is intelligent in that He can make disasters to trick people into worshiping Him. So how can He just be a universal consciousness?? You are now saying that there is war between Lucifer and God?
Sorry, I don't know why I mentioned that.In general yes. The evil is caused by angels.
Then who is your god? Except a few angels who follow Lucifer rest are all the followers of "the(so called) god". The angels with Lucifer are wise angels not powerful angels. Your god is called by so many names in the ancient times as Zeus, Ra and now many names including god and you are following this one who is behind all the evils. He is the one who give diseases and all evils -night terrors, possesesion.... and he accuses Lucifer so that people will follow him and worship him. He calls his opponents satan and devil that people despise them while in reality 'satan' cannot do anything while only 'god' can. But the true god is none of this, he neither gives nor takes.
To avoid confusion let us call the true god “G” and your god ‘god’ while the one represent evil as satan. Lucifer is an angel who is with “G” while god is actually ‘satan’. ‘G’ is universal consciousness. It is the followers of “god” that wrote all religious books. You expect Hitler’s followers to justify Hitler, don’t you? All religious books are similar propaganda, to justify 'god'.
I didn’t say god wrote book, I said god didn’t write any books.
Deity is just another name for an angel. Satan and god are the same. True god is universal consciousness.
If “god (your one)” is not responsible for disasters then he is not responsible for evil that arises out of human interactions. If you absolve god of disasters, by the same reasoning you should absolve him from evil too, while true god “G” has nothing to do with disasters or evil. Lucifer too has nothing to do with evil as he is only a ‘good teacher”, the light bearer the reason behind enlightenment. There is a war(if you can call it so) between “god(your)” and Lucifer, not a war between god(”G”) and Lucifer.So you think my God is a wicked angel who comes as the guise of Zeus, etc? Helena Blavatsky, founder of Theosophy, believed in Lucifer like you do. It's just that she acknowledges Satan and Lucifer to be the same:
In her book, `The Secret Doctrine` Blavatsky wrote, "Lucifer represents life, thought, progress, civilisation, liberty, independence. Lucifer is the Logos, the Serpent, the Saviour" and "It is Lucifer who is the God of our planet and the only God", and she continues, "The celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time, for she is the ever loving beneficent deity, but in antiquity and reality, Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is the divine and terrestrial light, the Holy Ghost and Satan at one and the same time".
I cannot follow a god which is just a universal consciousness. For God to cause evil He needs to be an omniscient being separate from us.
I stand corrected.
So you are saying my god is actually Satan as you say god, which is my god, is actually Satan. Then God cannot be responsible for calamities as Satan is powerless to you. Tell me, what has Lucifer done that is so wise?
There are lies in many religious books but one needs the wisdom from God to separate the lies from the truth.
How did Lucifer teach mankind to think? Did he appear to you?
If God and Satan are the same then surely it is Satan who is responsible for evil? Or you are insinuating that I am actually worshiping the devil?
Of course I absolve God from evil. Therefore I assume He is not responsible for disasters.1. I am not a theosophist, so what this Blavatsky says is not my concern.
2. You might have noticed that Blavatsky is not using the word satan as you and me uses. For her satan is Lucifer who is “Logos, the Serpent, the Saviour”, while we use satan to mean the embodiment of evil, big difference.
So god is custom made, to suit our likes? Do you make god?
Your “god” is a being separate from us! But I do not understand what you mean by this. So if he is not separated from us he cannot cause evil?
Your god who is satan who is powerful is responsible for calamities. True god is not responsible as he is not the one who brings disasters, he is just U. consciousness. So let us be clear, The GOD = Universal consciousness. Your god = satan =devil = angel(though he claims to be god). Lucifer = another angel(NOT god). Michael = another angel( a follower of your god). Got the difference?
God do not give wisdom but consciousness.
Eons before Lucifer helped human beings by allowing their genes to mix with Alien genes to become humans, otherwise they would have remained the automatons your god envisaged.
Your god, the one who is responsible for all the evils of mankind, is satan. True god is universal consciousness while satan is just an angel, a deity.
You are actually worshipping devil though you think you are worshipping god.That is, you unknowingly are worshipping satan all the while thinking that 'your god' is the good one whom you worship, while satan is a different being whom you hate, though in actuality both are the same. You believe in the lies spread by the authority and his followers and think the authority is god though that is not actually the case. God do not need worship from anybody. Your god, who is the real satan is responsible for evil. God is not responsible nor care whether anybody worship or not. Whether you worship or hate or love god it is immaterial to GOD while it does matter to 'your god', the angel.
Who are you to absolve? If he (your god) is responsible for all, he is responsible for not only good but also bad. It just means you are taken in by the lie of the consummate liar. God is not responsible for anything but consciousness. He is the consciousness behind everything living. Your god, the angel whom general public believe as god, is truly satan who is responsible for all evils while Lucifer is another angel who help us understand what god really is (he is not responsible for neither good nor bad in that sense). Lucifer do not lie or ask worship at least that should have shown you that Lucifer is not the satan. And all the knowledge we have about Lucifer is from the mudslingers.You share the same beliefs as Blavatsky so you should pay attention to what you says. It's interesting she considers Lucifer to be the mother of devils. Why would Lucifer be depicted as a serpent? We know what the serpent means. Lucifer and Satan are interchangeable.
No. I did not make God and I don't mold God into a way I deem palatable.
Sorry, I meant I don't hold God responsible because he is not responsible I think you have made your point over and over again.From what I read from Wikipedia, it appears that Blavatsky is another arm from your god and as I do not “share” that belief, I think I will not waste much time trying to find out in depth what she says. She is, I think, a crusader of your god to waylaid genuine seekers.
Yes, snake.
As long as it means good guy.
Unfortunately your statement “I cannot follow a god which is just a universal consciousness” means exactly that.
No, it is the other way round. Universal consciousness is that consciousness that provide animals, humans, angels….. with consciousness, the life giving principle.
Just like the tectonic plate movements and wind movements are that cause natural disasters, which has nothing to do with satan?
God is not separate from us, the moment god separate from us we become dead lifeless, mere mud.
Satan is not the “physical father” of jesus, if that is what you mean. His father was a human being.
Where did I get?, from bible. And I am not saying that there is a sole powerful god, what I am saying is that there is a god who gives consciousness to every living thing and there are a group of alien beings(not belonging to earth) called angels. The angels themselves are in two groups, the first and most powerful one consists of the one whom you call god and who is known as Zeus, El, Ahura, Yahweh……… who is very powerful and his followers and another group that is less powerful and consists of a later angel who is known as Lucifer, Prometheus……and his followers. The first angel claims himself as the creator and demands worship while the second group understands that there is a higher consciousness and help other angels and humans see that. The first group wants to discredit the second and as they are the most powerful they could do it. They projected Lucifer as an evil being and called him satan and accused that he is responsible for all the evils in this world to make people keep themselves away from Lucifer and worship the first angel. In reality Lucifer cannot even contact human beings as easily as the former group(and not powerful enough to do much things here) and all that happens here is done by the former group to make people worship the first angel.
No he is not “bestowing”, it is my body has the requisite anatomy for the daimon (the spirit –the consciousness of god that reside in living things) to be inside me.
Alien genes allowed humans to be separated from lesser forms to become humans. No aliens enslaved humans, but only humans enslaved humans. By the way from where did you get that information from? If bible is to believed your god encouraged slavery but that is not for gold(gold has no value beyond earth) but to make people worship him. We are not automatons of your god because Lucifer helped but Lucifer is not powerful enough to openly oppose your god. Your god do not want humans to be perfect, because if humans becomes perfect they would not worship him.
If god(your) is not responsible, neither is Lucifer nor anyone for what man does or suffers(either it is because of human nature or nature). Only man is responsible for what man does (according to your logic). [But yes true god is not responsible for neither the good nor the bad.] You cannot have it both ways, either god is responsible for both good and bad or he is not responsible for neither good nor bad.
Night terrors are purely biological. They may not be totally understood but they are common mostly in children during deep sleep and differ from nightmares which occur in different age groups during REM sleep. The children usually do not remember these terrors in the morning. Sorry, no religion here; there is no devil in sleeping children. Hitler committed his evil acts of his own choice and free will. Have a nice day, God bless the children.
There do not have to be devils in children for them to get night terrors. Satan can attempt to terrorize anybody. It cannot be proven that night terrors are from the devil but it being a biological thing does not mean the devil is cancelled out. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Let's be clear here, Hitler was not a devil worshiper.
Hitler was a member of the Catholic church and speaks of his belief in God in Mein Kampf. Hitler did, however, incorporate pagan traditions and the occult into the cult-like symbolism and atmosphere of the Nazi party. His beliefs may have been strange but he was not a Satanist.
I see no reason to think that frightening dreams, however vivid, are of supernatural origins. As a child I experienced several night terrors, but then I also went sleep-walking on several occasions as well. While sleep walking I would get dressed into my clothes for the day, like start getting ready for school, despite it still being the middle of the night.
We all have a wide array of different dreams, flying dreams, social anxiety dreams, violent dreams, sexual dreams, and yes the occasional nightmare. For some it goes farther than that, with various disorders and anxieties that can cause dreams to become very vivid or even take place while partially awake (night terrors, sleep paralysis, etc). I see no reason to believe that these are supernatural events, or that those who report alien abductions are actually being abducted by aliens. As someone else said the mind is a powerful thing.Hitler may have claimed to have been a Christian, but of course he did not know Christ at all. Most likely Jesus said to him, "Depart from me, Sinner." Or he was such an evil man that most likely he was instantly dragged down to hell.
I definately think that night terrors can come as attacks from Satan. I also get attacked in my sleep quite often by succubi.Of course. The "No True Scottsman" fallacy because Hitler wasn't someone you wanted to be associated with.
So you can prove, then, that succubi exist? We wait with baited breath.Yeah, I can honestly say that in my sleep I have felt a presence come very close to my skin. I usually have a dream that I am somewhere else, like in the room I slept in while growing up. It's kind of freaky. I'll wake up not knowing where I am. But the presence is real. Many other times I've had to plead the blood of Jesus to get the presence away. It can be scary.
If you are attacked by a succubi, you need to see a priest. That is very serious.
What is the point in replacing one blood sucker with another?
Hitler not a Satanist? His acts sure reflected his Satanism. The occult is from the devil.
Sir Isaac Newton was heavy into the occult as well, yet he always maintained that he was a good little Christian boy.
Just because one was a benevolent scientist and the other a genocidal dictator doesn't make one's claim more valid than the other's.
Once again, the No True Scotsman fallacy comes into play (and trust me, you would have a heart attack if you read up on the Crusades, as every atrocity committed therein was done so by a devoted Christian).If Isaac Newton was into the occult then he was a Satanist. Most Satanists don't go parading their Satanism. They had be doctors, lawyers, etc.
What is it with this devoted Christian stuff? I can claim I'm all sorts of things but if I act contrary to it then I'm not really want I claim to be. The Crusaders were Satanists hiding behind the guise of Christianity. It goes for the Vatican, too.So you believe that Satanists obey Jesus' commandments and that they love Him?
Depends on what you mean by satanist. Your "god" is the real satan so whoever follow him is a satanist but they are not called satanist but 'devout'.
Who is "following" jesus? What is there to follow? Jesus represents a Kingdom ("god's" Kingdom), a tyranny where only one voice(his praises) is allowed while Lucifer represents democracy and freedom of speech. All jesus and his followers did was make more worshippers for your "god", obedient slaves not fellow citizens, the "commandments" were just a bait.I thought there are no such thing as deities to you so how can there be a Satan? I think if Jesus did not love us He'd hardly allow us to have free will on earth. He'd be forcing us to worship Him. Dictators tend to force people.
Have you ever met this Lucifer thing? Those who worship Lucifer, like those in Freemasonry for example, have a plan to form a New World Order where no one has free will and rights. For heaven's sake, Lucifer is a liar. Just think for a moment you could be lied to.
Jesus came into contact with gentiles quite a lot. He did not say to them, "You are a gentile therefore you are going to hell!" I think if Jesus wanted to be a dictator, God would have given Him power to overthrow the Roman empire. Instead He died like a criminal on the cross.Angels, deities are all same and the angel who is responsible for evil, you call god and I call satan.
Jesus was just a man who was one of the chief propagandists of your "god". He is dead and as he was just a man he couldn't force anyone. Even the angel whom you call god is not powerful enough, if he were he wouldn't allow free will.
For heavens sake, your god is the liar. It is he who demands worship and it is he who said Lucifer wants worship [by the way have you seen your "god"?]. Lucifer do not want worship, he is just a teacher. He didn't ask anybody to write books extolling his greatness or how he "saved mankind from sin" but your god did. Lucifer never told anyone, "you should have no god but me".
Jesus said "you are gentile and like dogs". Jesus was just a man, he had no power, he was just like an advertising agency for your god. Your god didn't care what happened to jesus as long as he brought followers, in fact jesus was just a bait used by your god. And he brought followers, didn't he?
Why wouldn't a god with powerful not give us free will? God loves us and that is the reason He gives us free will. Why did the disciples follow Jesus and why was He such a threat to the Pharisees?
Has Lucifer told you this personally?
Go look up the exact verse. He did not believe the gentiles were dogs. That was the name given to them by the Jews. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this earth so why come to earth specially to have followers? You say my God is not powerful enough. Therefore He could not control what He did to Jesus then, right? You are talking as if my God is a conscious being. You seem to be acknowledging His existence.
That does seem to be the problem here - no two are agreeing on what a "Satanist" is. Can you give your definition so that the discussion can make sense?
Simple. A Satanist is someone who worships Satan, the enemy of Jesus and the author of all evil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
It's a fallacy. That means it's fundamentally incorrect. It will never be the right answer. Stop using it.I'm sorry that you cannot understand what I'm trying to say to you.
Hello Claire Evans,
I read the article you posted about Hitler. There is no question that he was a depraved man , the scum of the earth, only worse. Stalin, too, was a man who also lived in constant fear...
The only book I have read which discusses night terrors (or something seemingly identical to them) as having come from an evil source is, "Shouting at The Wolf." I have mentioned this book before to other readers who are interested in the phenomenon of evil. At any rate, the story is a true life account of a woman who, by the way, is involved in the esoteric arts, having been a psychic for nearly all of her adult life. This alone may cause a more traditional Christian to take umbrage at the book. Nevertheless, I've chosen to mention it, as the author did not believe in evil as being something outside of our minds, or as an organized force that exists, that is, until evil attacked her - almost nightly. At the time of the attacks, she wondered is she was going crazy. The author, Anderson Reed, writes with a high degree of experience and intelligence. Her book is primarily a warning against New Age beliefs, which are fond of embracing "the light," and ignoring darkness, which the author states is very real, and very organized, although not always as intelligent as one might think, unlike what many New Age believers have come to assume.
Anyway, I offer this information up for you or anyone who may wish to read about evil from an esoteric point of view. I have yet to hear of anyone else on this forum who has any information that may be of use to you in addressing this particular situation, although at this point, it seems that you have this condition under control.
You're a strong woman to be able to withstand the constant criticism and the poking fun of Christianity, (a lower form of communication, if you ask me.) and then going so far as to say that evil is actually a Being of light. That is a rather naive way of looking at that which rapes, murders, lies, and degrades. How that which destroys can be construed as another side of good, is beyond me. This is where some of the New Age thinking has fooled people, says the author, into becoming quite susceptible to evil's lies... as evil has the ability to make it's appearance in the form of "lofty words and ideals." It is anything but.
Long story short, anyone can be attacked by evil; though some people are more vulnerable; thus, the author discusses methods of protection from evil.
Keep up your good work. Your faith is apparently quite strong!As a person who suffers from night terrors, I think you are just encouraging us, who suffer from this frightening disorder, to abdicate reason, and pursue useless superstition and psychotic nonsense to deal with a REAL and serious problem.
I would never think that my night terrors are anything more than a chemical imbalance, that can be treated only by sleep professionals and other medical professionals and scientist who are researching this condition. All this other stuff about devils and evil entities attacking people seems just downright primitive. and disturbing."Disturbing" is hardly the word for such medieval and ignorant concepts.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/b … -1.1362674That's downright tragic. And to think, this person is not alone in his beliefs. Mentally ill people should not be exposed to this deadly ignorant programming. It just validates their insanity....making them think they are being pious when, in actuality, they are in the grips of psychosis.
Of course night terrors are real and serious, although they are quite rare in adults.I did not say there is not a medical explanation for them. Any reasonable person would see a medical professional before making assumptions about the supernatural, as well they should. Nonetheless, evil exists, whether you believe it does or not. To rule out evils existence is foolish, and only makes people more vulnerable. Words like primitive, medieval, and superstitious are interesting adjectives, but, in this context, they merely show a lack of knowledge about the reality of evil and it's capacity to harm and destroy.
I mention the book, previously, for anyone who may be delving into the occult, without having knowledge about means of protection. As the author says, " When the door to the occult is opened, light and darkness spill out together. The idea that as long as we don't believe in evil it cannot harm us is disastrously wrong."
I am not talking here about a guy with a pitchfork. I am talking about a pervasive energy and organized force. Evil exists. Hitler is just one of many examples of someone who gave himself over to evil. He became evils face, but don't forget - he began his career with a message of hope during Germany's financial difficulties. In other words, his initial message was quite lofty, but his intent and actions were not.Well, it would appear every scientist on the planet is foolish and you are not considering no such "pervasive energy and organized force" has ever been discovered. You should present your findings to the world, you would win the Nobel Prize.
Nice to see YOU back in the religious forums, what happened? We missed your presence!
Our latest Islamic propagandist had me banned for calling Muhammad a liar. Go figure.
Then that's should be final. It is the unreasonable person who pursues irrational superstitious "answers"
Evil is only a concept that can only be perceived by living organisms. Therefore there is nothing that a rock could perceive as evil. It is the things that an organism sees as harmful, that they erroneously apply the term evil. Nothing would ever happen without stars and planets continuously exploding, and there is no sense of evil perceived, because the stars are not living organisms.
There are natural things here in the universe that are harmful to human beings. We wish to, and endeavor to, avoid those things. There is no need to add to that.
This is were those adjective, that you mentioned before, come into context. This is not based on anything except primitive superstition, unless you have some new data. If so, post a link...or better yet, contact James Randi. He's offering 1 million dollars to anyone who can prove the supernatural exists.
As I said before, there are things that are harmful to human beings, just as there are things harmful to other organisms--natural things!. To a virus, your immune system is EVIL.
??????
Thanks very much for the kind words. Have you heard of the book, "Inside the New Age Nightmare" by Randall N. Baer? It shows that New Age is from the devil and you can get possessed by demons practising it.
Claire, I had not heard of this book. Thank you for mentioning it.. .I've just looked up the reviews in Amazon, and they are quite good.
Your knowledge of Bible History is already quite extensive. Nonetheless, I'll recommend a better book than the one I mentioned before. It is, Fabricating Jesus, How Modern Scholars Distort the Bible, by Craig A. Evans, who is a serious historical scholar - one of the best in the world..
Actually, all of your critics should read the book, but of course, they won't, as their minds are fixed on believing untruths that have no basis in serious scholarship. However, if you are interested, here is a link where the author discusses his book in depth..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwV__gW5v4
Hi Claire. My pedantic persona is coming in here.... your sentence read: "Some say it is psychological and some say it is from devil, like me."
If I could just rephrase that for you: "Some, like me, say it is psychological and some say it is from devil."
Do you see the difference in meaning? Maybe you meant to say the latter?Night terrors (nightmares) often have digestive causes. Eating pizza at night for example!!
Some poor souls also suffer from post traumatic stress which can give nightmares.
I am a believer. I can assure you the only devils are (d)evil people.It is true that there are factors like stress, etc. Nightmares can be the result of indigestion. However, night terrors aren't quite the same as nightmares. Night terrors happen during non REM sleep and nightmares during the REM stage. People tend not to remember the contents of a night terror.
Night terrors in my family are genetic. My poor aunt was plagued by them and once, in her sleep, ran out the house in terror.
I suffered from a combination of night terrors and nightmares which almost ruined by life. The reason why night terrors get worse over time is because demons feed off the fear and stress. I actually got my room blessed by my uncle priest which made the terrors abate for a week. Then it came back worse. When I said to God I could not take it anymore, I was delivered. I was put on medication that knocked me out and thus stopped the cycle of fear.
I can tell you that there are evil spirits who influence evil people.My son used to suffer from night terrors. I don't know the psychological, brain chemical, dietry, reasons behind them as I've not looked into it. But he doesn't get them anymore. He received no treatment for them and neither did we seek any. They just stopped. No demons required.
Anything that invokes terror is from demons. I'm pleased to hear that your son outgrew them. Was he a child? It is rare for an adult to get night terrors.
Having said that, I would not say in your son's case they were a direct result of demons like in my case. Children don't usually have demonic content in their night terrors. Usually people don't remember their night terrors. I think the ones that are demonic are the ones people remember that has supernatural evil in it.The only problem is, according to you, it was the Jews who wanted Jesus dead, not Romans. So Romans didn’t need a 100% surety.
There is NO negative and positive, it is merely an explanation of two complementary phenomena.
You are the one who said genetic manipulation; I didn’t say any such nonsense. You said that saying about our urge to eat and procreate make us less worthy, but saying that that we are genetically manipulated and robots of satan doesn’t make as more worthy, it was that statement I was contending.
So according to you yourself, your god doesn’t know how to correct the genetic manipulation, so he is less powerful.
“And if the devil was more powerful, why didn't he manage to make all of mankind evil and serve him? And so ironically with mankind, the amount of influence Satan and God have got over the earth is due to how much power they have respectively on this planet. “
So there is no god or satan as you say it.
“Having said that, the power of love is powerful”
There is no love as you describe it, only political manipulation.
Again a lie. There are no kids in Vatican, what is verified is some catholic priests did practice that crime of pedophilia. In a large organization there is bound to be some bad apples, but that doesn’t make the whole organization or its head guilty. By your logic, Obama is guilty of the silly theft that happened in your neoghbourhood.
As I said, some clergy and nuns won’t make all clergy or its headquarters.
Extreme evil, is done by psychopaths, those people who genetically cannot empathize. And is it their crime? According to you, there genes are manipulated. It is not with their consent it is done, their genes are like that from birth. So whoever did it is guilty, not them and god should forgive them irrespective of whether they believe the nonsense.
“There are some who aren't even human” this is what you said. If they are not humans, then who created them? If they are programmed, what is their fault? If a robot that is programmed to kill humans killed, then it is the programmer that is responsible not the robot.
I think I have answered this question multiple times, don’t you read any of what I write? It is you who say Jesus is real, it is you who say he is god. So we are ASSUMING that Jesus is real and it is as WRITTEN in gospels and the analyzing whether he can be what he (and you) claim himself to be and can it really happen as is in gospel.
And yet god didn’t get satan alone? According to you your god is powerful only in boasting? And who gave more power to this “puny” satan on earth?
Can you write this in a way that make sense?
What I understood is
1) God allow suffering, so he doesn’t prevent it even if he can.
2) People do not do god’s will because satan programmed them.
3) Even if satan programmed them somehow some humans are deprogrammed.
4) Satan put sin inside Jesus so that Jesus can redeem humans.
5) Even though satan cannot come in presence of holy god, he managed to put sin in god himself.
6) Satan is satisfied by Jesus acting dead.
7) Satan manipulated humans but he failed.
8) God do not know how to forgive, he need to do drama.
What I understood is satan is trying to get me through you. God don’t speak nonsense. And God cannot give opportunity without drama? Getting up after three days is not death and according to you yourself, he was not dead he just paid a visit to hell. Why the spirit didn’t came before Jesus. What prevented it? After all it is God and Jesus together, what prevented god from coming along with Jesus?
It is easily possible, they do not need any hypothesis just put one stone over the other.
Permissive will, means he allowed.
With evolution we are immune to most diseases. Even without medicine there are minimum epidemics, there are no pandemics like the plague. Even the modern pandemics like ebola or swine flu could kill only a negligible percentage, and of course neither of those disease have any effective drug.
A clear example is the decimation of population of America with disease when the white man got there, the whites were immune the natives were not.
But you chose to pick what is useful to you from OT and ignore the rest just like you are doing for NT. Only you reject OT almost completely while accepting NT almost fully, based on “spirit” guide.Yes, but if the Jews were upset to the extent they would threaten a riot, then the Romans would cooperate.
What I'm trying to say is that you cannot have an atom if either a protons or electrons don't exist, which obviously are positively charged or negatively charged respectively. Likewise, we can't have positive numbers without the concept of negative numbers. There are opposites in life. Can we say there is love without hate? How would we know the difference if we had not experienced it?
I never said that our urge to eat and procreate make us less worthy. That doesn't make sense. We need to eat and procreate for humanity to survive. Why do you see evil in that? In my theory, genetic manipulation introduced humanity into evil. Now you saying that it is only because we need to eat and procreate that makes us unworthy. We just have different concepts, yours not making any sense.
If God genetically modified Satan's creation to make them all good, what could Satan do? Perhaps you can say God could take us back and get angels to reverse that manipulation to get back to being only good. However, that would mean Satan could come back and manipulate all over again. That is not the answer to defeating evil. The only answer is Jesus Who tipped the scales.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion. I have never described God and Satan otherwise.
God sacrificing His Son for mankind's salvation is an act of extreme love. Laying down your life for your friends is act of love.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Extreme evil, is done by psychopaths, those people who genetically cannot empathize. And is it their crime? According to you, there genes are manipulated. It is not with their consent it is done, their genes are like that from birth. So whoever did it is guilty, not them and god should forgive them irrespective of whether they believe the nonsense.
The devil himself. First of all, we don't know whether they are programmed or not. Those who know what they are doing are going straight to hell. But there must be some who are just possessed. That is why it is left to God to judge because He knows all.
Okay, so He didn't really ask woman to beg or go whipping in the temple. So you should say, "Jesus would be evil if He did exist." And you can't know for a fact Jesus doesn't exist. You aren't even an historian or biblical scholar.
Well, how could He if Satan won't go anywhere near God? However, Jesus desended into hell taking on the sin of the world. He was in Satan's territory and even then He conquered Satan. So that's the decimation I'm talking about. It was then that Satan was defeated. Now, one could ask, "Why is Satan still around causing evil if He has been defeated?" My view is that because what we are experiencing now has actually happened before in another dimension. After all, how can Revelation be right if it hasn't happened already? I think that what we are experiencing now is like watching a video that was recorded back in the 80's. It was broadcasting decades ago but it feels like now when we watch it again.
And, no, God did not give Satan power if that is what you are insinuating.
God may allow suffering in the lives of those who love Him and obey Him if it will spiritually refine a person. As in the case of those who don't love and obey Him, He cannot prevent that suffering because they have not given their lives to Him. Unfortunately, children suffer because they are under the auspices of those who have not used their free will to give their lives over to God.
We all have been manipulated but that doesn't mean all don't do God's will. As much as Satan has genetically modified humans, he has not managed to remove the potential of people to love God and choose to follow Jesus. So being genetically manipulated does not mean one doesn't have the capability to choose between good and evil.
See above.
No. How can Satan set sin aside? It is because we will never ever not have innate evil in us because of our makeup that Jesus had to take on the penalty of our sin in order to redeem us. Any evil we have done that we truly repent for will be erased. That is the only way we can break away from Satan.
Since when does God have sin? That's like saying God put good in Satan. It's impossible.
I'd think He'd prefer it if Jesus hadn't died. Although it delighted him to torment Jesus in hell, it still meant that Jesus would defeat Him by resurrecting from the dead. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Satan tried to talk Jesus out of the crucifixion.
He failed to remove the potential for us to have God-like characteristics like being loving, compassionate, etc.
Battling evil does require "drama".
That doesn't make sense. Why would Satan want me to lead you to Christ, His arch enemy? You said you didn't know who God is but you say God doesn't speak nonsense. How is me corresponding with you dramatic? When did I say Jesus was not dead? He died on the cross. In death, He took on the sin of man which made Him go to hell. The Holy spirit has always been on earth (John 1:1). God had to wait for the right time to send His Son. That time set up the circumstances where Jesus could die publicly so people could believe in the resurrection.
As I've said may times, God and Jesus took on separate roles when Jesus was on earth. Jesus couldn't pray to Himself and He could not have said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?"
You know that is ridiculous. Anyway, I'm not going to go into these subject.
Permissive will in the lives of those who love Jesus. Not in the case of earthly affairs.
Evolution has nothing to do with a lack of medical care. Evolution should mean we should all be immune no matter what medication we have. We have things like vaccination that prevent the spread of many diseases. It is man made intervention and nothing natural.
There is medication to help with swine flu like Tamiflu. Ebola tends to be restricted to third world countries. With ebola, a healthy immune system will give one a chance to beat Ebola but in the majority of cases, people die.
Clarify, please?
Well, by dismissing what I know is false means the opposite is more credible. See that as subjective, but whatever.They would, then they only have to get the man whom the jew’s show, never have to bother about the identity. You are agreeinmg with me that Romans didn’t need 100% surety.
This negative and positive is a mere assumption. We have electrons and protons which display some characteristics. We arbitrarily gave the name negative and positive, for the ease of discussion. Numbers are again concepts; there is no negative number in the universe. We can say two rods, is there negative two rods?
Interesting, it was you who said it make us less worthy, now you are accusing me? What I said is saying we are genetically manipulated robots make us less worthy than saying we have urges.
You earlier said said god and jesus are one, but is now talking as if they are two. If we are genetically manipulated we can’t do otherwise. It is not our fault. God can take us back and correct and keep a bette vigil with or without the help of Jesus instead of writing dramas. Jesus, according to you got up after two days, is letting someone sleep ‘sacrifice’? God and satan together are doing drama. God let satan manipulate so that people will worship god. God didn’t move a finger to help mankind but wrote a play making himself as his son who will “act” dead, and if someone is idiotic enough to believe that (defy one’s own genetics, how pray?) he will correct the manipulation otherwise he won’t!
That is simply a wild assertion, just like saying as there are some murderers in America, all America or Obama is a murderer.
It is according to you their (and everybody’s) genes are manipulated; I didn’t say any such nonsense.
If people are “programmed to sin” then it is the programmer who is guilty not the programmed. If I make a robot who kill people, it is I who should be punished not the robot. The program should be removed from the robot, not punished.
If you do not know then why do you repeatedly assert that humans are genetically manipulated to do sin?
The devil himself? You mean there are some humans who belong to another species?
Yes, if jesus really existed and if the stories given in bible is true he is evil. Yes I know for a fact that jesus didn’t exist. Unlike you I don’t need argmentum ad veracundium, so I can analyse facts for myself.
Do you dream regularly? How do you know jesus went to satan’s territory and conquered him? According to you hell is just a separation from god which jesus obviously can’t do as he is god. Yo said satan is puny even to come near god but he can easily fool god and manipulate human genes, even if god correct it. Ssatan won’t listen even if such a powerful god comment as if satn is the most idiotic fellow existing. If I go one describing all the contradictions you have written I will laugh to death.
What is a dimension?
If god didn’t gave power, how did satan become so influencing on earth?
So it means even if he can, god will not prevent suffering.
1) Satan modified humans to select evil
2) But he couldn’t remove the capability to do good.
What does it matter, satan manipulated human to select evil, they can’t do otherwise.
If repentence is all that is needed what is jesus doing here? If I sin, will beating you redeem me of that? If not how can jesus do that, especially considering he didn’t do anything?
jesus didn’t die, he got up after two days. And you were in the garden?
And telling everyone that it was real and not drama?
It is you who say satan and jesus are arch enemies, it may not be so.
“You said you didn't know who God is but you say God doesn't speak nonsense. “
I said I can’t tell you, you will have to find. Only idiots speak nonsense, I don’t think god is an idiot.
“When did I say Jesus was not dead? He died on the cross”
If he died on cross, how then he went to hell?
“In death, He took on the sin of man which made Him go to hell. “
He cannot touch sin, then how did he ‘took’ sin? In a container?
“The Holy spirit has always been on earth (John 1:1). “
But you said, ‘It is due to the death and resurrection of Christ that the Holy Spirit entered the world’, if holy spirit was always here, how is that possible? So which is correct, was the spirit always here or only came with resurrection?
“ That time set up the circumstances where Jesus could die publicly so people could believe in the resurrection. “
Anytime he could die publicly then why didn’t he do so before? Why didn’t he made his resurrection public then?
“As I've said may times, God and Jesus took on separate roles when Jesus”
Are they different persons or are they one person acting as in a movie? Say Hugh Jackman is wolverine, wolverine can pray to Jackman, is it like that?
I know it is hard work, not ridiculous. This is the way they worked in easter islands and any of the monuments. You just are not willing to give humans the glory you yourself can’t achieve.
He allowed!
It is not any vaccinations that prevented the epidemics that occurred before the present century. The swine flu got controlled even before any vaccine was developed. The plague of Europe (or influenza pandemic) killed quarter to half the population while swine flue didn’t even kill a tiny percentage. If we couldn’t develop immunity there would be none left in the world alive. With medicines we control diseases faster, that is all.
The local population was not immune to the diseases pf white man to which he was immune, but that didn’t wipe of all the native community. Some people acquired immunity and prospered.
You are not a scholar!!!!
You contradict yourself, hence most of what you say are nonsense. You don’t apply reason or logic but simply copy conspiracy sites.We aren't robots.
I don't know who is programmed and who is not. Just because we have genetic manipulation doesn't mean we are robots. Yes, I do believe there are other species with the facades of humans.
That's ridiculous. Jesus is a known historical figure. Even most atheists think He existed.
Well, I know how powerless Satan is against God. He is terrified of Him. That is the sign of a creature defeated. I have explained the Holy Spirit over and over again with you and I won't do it again. How do you believe Satan fooled God? Make no mistake, Satan isn't puny. It is well in his capacity to manipulate the genes of humans.
Satan is not a creation or subordinate to God. He is a deity in his own right. He has power just like God. However with Satan, the power is given to him through the sin of man. Unfortunately, the world is sold to Satan. Give him the power and he will use it.
Depends on what can come out of that suffering. God didn't prevent Jesus' suffering.
Of course you can. You right now can choose to do good or evil. We can never get rid of our sinful nature but we can overcome sin with the grace of Jesus. There is no excuse for people to do evil.
I don't understand your analogy.
Satan certainly behaves as the arch enemy.
But you have no idea who God is. Can't you see how silly that is?
“When did I say Jesus was not dead? He died on the cross”
It was His soul. We know hell comes with death.
Being responsible for all the sin in the world would make one possessed and full of the devil. That is why Jesus went to hell. He could never in His perfect state.
The Holy Spirit has been here from the start but it was only on Pentecost that people could have a personal relationship with Him. He gives strength, He teaches, etc. The Holy Spirit can work through people who love Him. Before that, the world didn't truly know the Holy Spirit.
The political situation had to be right. The OT had to have had prophecies in order for Jesus to fulfill them. People had to have the ability to write down the gospels. God chose the right time. The risen Christ was seen by many people.
What is a told you that there are diseases that will manufactured to purposely infect humanity? You know, it's just funny how some diseases come about and then just disappear without vaccines when the whole world was screaming for vaccines. Take Ebola, for example. Funny how there were certain cases that killed a few in America and then is just went away. Suddenly Ebola just went away. It was supposed to be this crisis around the world and just became a damp squib. Wouldn't be surprised if this won't happen with the Zeka virus.
No one claims that humans can't get stronger immune systems. There are some diseases that are contracted once and then we become immune. However, that is not the case with all diseases.
No one can argue with that. A stronger immune system means one's body can better fight off diseases, not prevent it entirely.Then we are not programmed as you allege and satan has no role.
There are organisms that are manufactured, that is biological war is all about.
But we humans, expect a negligible few, do get immunity to all. Yes for the person who dies it is bad, but I am talking only about the species point of few. Sooner or later we get immunity, otherwise no one survives. When plague first got to Europe, there was no drug even then 1/2 to 2/3 survived.
Of course a few people will die and each year the few will even come down that infectious diseases will cease to be our chief concern as it was before.So you are speculating?
Because we have genetic manipulation we; are robots. If psychopaths weren't genetically altered, they would not be psychopaths.
But there is only one species, so you are simply making up.
Jesus is not a known figure, only a made up figure which many historians (many of the so called historians are only bew testament scholars) with their Christian background fail to acknowledge. Atheists, being fools, will think so.
The facts don't add up in case of jesus and his biggest follower, author of most of new testament, Paul himself says he made up what he taught.
You are contradicting yourself, no wonder you don't understand that what you write about spirit is also nonsense.
If satan is power just like god, not puny,why should he be terrified of god?
Who sold world to satan, especially considering satan himself set the road under the watchful eyes of god?
How do you know jesus went to satan’s territory and conquered him? According to you hell is just a separation from god which jesus obviously can’t do as he is god.
So god will not prevent suffering, even though he can. That is what satan is supposed to do.
We can then get rid of our skin color also. If we are programmed we cannot change. that is why no punishment can correct psychpaths.
Then why don't Jesus simply grace all? What does that even mean?
How my sin is redeemed by Jesus acting dead?
They don't, they work in collusion. Satan does everything in his power to make people believe jesus. And Lucifer, the morning star and Jesus are same according to bible itself.
Can't you? I said I can't tell you NOT, I have no idea.
No, his soul is god, so he died and nothing went to hell.
No, according to you hell is separation from god but he is never separate from god.
Not only he is not responsible you also said devil cannot touch him. We see in bible that devils run away from him too.
Remember you said hell is not a place to go.
My question is whether holy spirit was always there?
According to you spirit is jesus +god. So holy spirit was always here means jesus and god was always here.
Similar situation were there before to, and people could write too.
Rise christ was not seen by many, most of it is simply "vision" like Stephen had. if he really wanted all jews at least could have seen him and believed.Just because we have genetic manipulation, doesn't mean we don't know the difference between right or wrong. Yes, if there were no evil genes that caused someone to be psychopathic, they wouldn't be but that does not give them an excuse to behave in that way because they know the difference between right and wrong.
You know that how? What species is this? A hybrid of human and...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JMUimxkx7c
Tacitus was a New Testament scholar?
Who's Jesus' biggest follower who authored most of the New Testament? There were several writers.
Because evil cannot stand the light. Goodness horrifies him. Just like we are appalled by evil and frightened of evil, so is he as frightened by goodness. More so, actually.
I already have explained to you the concept of Jesus being God and the Son at the same time. On earth, He assumed the role of the Son. He gave all the praise to the Father. So even though they are one, they can assume two different roles being apart from another.
That Isaiah passage is about King Nebuchadnezzar and not Lucifer. Morning stars refer to royalty.
Hell as a place is a metaphor. Going to hell means spiritual torment. Where in the Bible does it say demons run away from Satan, too?
Yes.
That doesn't make sense. We cannot change our skin colour naturally. Being a psychopath is nature and nurture. With the grace of Jesus, they can change. They can be corrected.
Grace of Jesus means because of Him that we can changed. This is what it means in a nutshell:
It is the unmerited, divine assistance that humans receive for their regeneration by God and also as being a virtue coming from God.They know what the ‘society’ thinks as wrong; they do not know it is wrong for them. They do are not restrained by empathy nor remorse as others are. They cannot feel wrong. If they were programmed to feel, they wouldn’t be psychopaths.
Homo sapiens in a camera trick/photo editing.
Tacitus was not a new testament scholar who has never seen or heard from Jesus. He was not a primary source, he was writing what he might have heard from Christians, or it could be an obvious fabrication as the said book alone was published posthumously and the original ones concerning the period is missing.
The biggest and first was Paul. Even Peter’s and James’s show only a celestial Jesus, not earthly one. Gospels were written after a generation, probably as an explanation of the epistles.
But we are not powerful as god. We are terrified that some harm might happen to us. Your satan is a very powerful being, why should he be afraid? Who sold the world to satan?
They can assume any number of roles, if god and Son are same, they can never be separate, Period. If they can never be separate, they are not assuming roles they are separate. If I come to Canada with an assumed role and praise myself {that is great indeed, acting as someone else to praise myself!], will I be a separate one? If I am in Canada, I am not in America.
Where is satan’s territory then? This is what you wrote “Hell as a place is a metaphor.”, so satan has no territory. Which is the place that is devoid of god? Where did jesus go to conquer?
So Nebuchadnezzar was in heaven? His father was dawn?
Morning star is the term that was (mis)translated as ‘Lucifer’, so all your railings about Lucifer was against royalty?
Satan does everything in his power to make people believe jesus. He even announces that jesus is god’s son before running away.
You said going to hell means separation from god, now what is the spiritual torment? Is it mental torment? I said devil ran away from Jesus not satan. So evil cannot touch him, then how did he take up evil?
So what was this ‘spirit was sent after jesus is gone’, spirit was always here? The bible is obviously lying there?
Relationship with “him”? They is more correct, isn’t not?
Spirit = Jesus + god. Above you say Jesus and god are the same, only two different roles, acting. So, spirit is 2 X god. How many gods are there actually?
If they were here always, what is Pentecost? Why didn’t he work earlier?
Full-blown psychopaths cannot be corrected. That cannot be done “naturally” either.
My question is why is he not giving his grace to all? Why doesn’t he give grace to fullblown psychopaths and change their genetics so they can be normal humans? Why he failed to grace the majority if hmans in the third world?
“It is the unmerited, divine assistance that humans receive for their regeneration by God”
Can you cut out the lecture and answer to the point?
This sentence is practically meaningless rhetoric, my question in an answer form.
I have been a Christian since I was 9 and I have experienced nightmares and night terrors for just as long, I have also seen demons. It can be hard to tell sometimes, but I have learned to tell the difference between regular night terrors and demonic attacks. Usually the nightmares are just bad dreams and the night terrors are Hallucinatory Sleep Paralysis, if it is a demonic attack the nightmare has demons in, or I wake up and see a demon, the nightmare ends or the demon disappears after I tell it to leave in the name of Jesus. I usually say a prayer after or sing worship songs after to help me fall back asleep.
So sorry you have had these night terrors. I'm glad your faith is able to keep them under control. I agree with your take completely.
- Emile Rposted 11 years ago
0I would think assuming night terrors were caused by the devil would be the worst assumption you could make. That would create unbearable stress during waking hours and probably ensure the night terrors continued. I would exhaust all other avenues of research prior to claiming them caused by supernatural sources.
Claire,
Most of the time, I agree with you, but this one is too far-fetched even for me. Hitler wasn't a demon, he didn't practice anything but Catholicism. Saying he was in a cult, is a conspiracy theory. A lie to make people feel as if he was some super demon to have killed millions. It was the cultural norm at the time, blaming the Jews for all of their problems, much like you're doing with demons and Satan.
I've got a degree in psychology. Night terrors do NOT come from the devil. They are projections of your own mind about your stress levels, and the things that you are dealing with. Carl Jung, a respected dream analysis has this to say about dreams, "The dream is a fragment of involuntary psychic activity, just conscious enough to be reproducible in the waking state. Of all psychic phenomena the dream presents perhaps the largest number of 'irrational' factors. It seems to possess a minimum of that logical coherence and that hierarchy of values shown by the other contents of consciousness, and is therefore less transparent and understandable. Even though dreams refer to a definite attitude of consciousness and a definite psychic situation, their roots lie deep in the unfathomably dark recesses of the conscious mind. For want of a more descriptive term we call this unknown background the unconscious. We do not know its nature in and for itself, but we observe certain effects from whose qualities we venture certain conclusions in regard to the nature of the unconscious psyche. Because dreams are the most common and most normal expression of the unconscious psyche, they provide the bulk of the material for its investigation. The symbols of the process of individuation that appear in dreams are images of an archetypal nature which depict the centralizing process or the production of a new centre of personality....I call this centre the 'self,' which should be understood as the totality of the psyche. The self is not only the centre, but also the whole circumference which embraces both conscious and unconscious; it is the centre of this totality, just as the ego is the centre of consciousness."
If you're having these nightmares/ terrors on a regular basis, it is your SELF that is creating them, not Satan. You need to view, in your life what is making these visions appear to you. What is unbalanced in your life to make you believe this is happening.
As for demons, Satan's greatest achievement is the fact that 90% of religious faiths don't believe he exists. In saying that, why would this extreme evil, this ultimate terror, care what you were doing? One blogger, having nightmares, how would that ripple the pond between good and evil? What are you doing to have this entity in your life terrorizing you? Are you losing your faith? Joining his side? Why would he CARE so much about you?Satan's greatest achievement is the fact that 90% of religious faiths believe him to be God and not that they "don't believe he exists".
Satan's greatest achievement is being a fictional character that's so...bland and one-dimensional that many people seem to think he exists.
We really couldn't pick a more interesting made-up evil deity to be afraid of? Seth, anyone? Loki? Baphomet? Moloch? Izanami?! Really, guys?!
nightmares in children are usually caused by ignorant parents use in scaring tacts to control them and besides that be careful what you let your kids watch on tv, no scary movies or violent ones are allowed in my house.its all about how you bring kids up, and terror is allways of the devil. he tries show his ugly face round my home at times. and of course we rebuke him in name of jesus and he flee;s
Your comment is incredible ignorant of the facts and most likely have embarrassed many Christians.
Sorry.. No embarrassment here.. Sometimes people have to go out on that limb alone.
Scare tactics... Like telling your children that the devil is real and you will spend eternity burning in hell.
if the proto-orthodox had never stolen the idea of Hell from their pagan counterparts (which they liked to do a LOT for almost every aspect of Christianity) then they would never have gained the power and the ability to assert and afflict their will over the masses indiscriminately. Hell was a great way to ensure that people did what you wanted - and those "heretics" that spoke out against it were simply dispatched. It seems the christian church didn't learn much from their persecution at the hand of the pagan Romans - except how to inflict it when it was their turn.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 CORRECT! WHOEVER is in POWER, MAKES THE RULES and OWNS it!
Night terrors are just dreams.
I have never really understood why people would be worried about 'The Devil'. To me the whole concept is flawed. If satan's job is to punish bad people, who are supposedly the people that go to hell to be entertained by him, then that must make him a good guy. Whoever came up with the concept in the first place should have thought it through a bit more really.
Anyway, I suffer sometimes from nightmares. Probably comes from enjoying rich and delicious food. I know they are just dreams though, so don't let them bother my normal life in any way.i'm still trying to wrap my mind around the notion the "bad dream" has been given a much more official and more marketable name,... "night terrors"..... sounds like a B movie title
Hitler was raised a catholic, alter boy, once thought he might want to become a priest,.. was told his aptitude was too low,.. promtly wiped his ass with his report card i think and was expelled,... had little to no use for the catholic church after that, other than to co-opt an old symbol he saw in a church growing up,... it was called a swastika.... he was turned down by art school because he suposedly had no tallent for the human form,... what he lacked in tallent for the human form he more than made up for in poor attitude and grandiose ideas and delusions of grandure,... all while being lost,... he was turned down for promotion in the german army durring WW1 because he "lacked leadership skills"....
all around missfit who bore grudges against those he felt wronged him,.. and on the other hand helped those who he felt affection for years later, including helping his JEWISH childhood doctor to quietly leave the country before the war,.. the same doctor who's interview info helped american psycologists profile Hitler for the US government,.. the same doctore who treated his mother for cancer in vain,.. who described Hitler as "the most devoted son i had ever seen, i had never seen a boy more utterly crushed by his mothers death,...
he ate little meat, claimed to love children though had none of his own, adored his dogs,.. very seldom drank, and then only a beer on ocasion,.... he was proud and insecure,... he was a powerful speaker and communicator who had an emotionaly stunted personal life,...
he was EVERY MAN,... and what makes that a true nightmare is that he is indeed every one of us,... there was NOTHING demonic about him as a man or a soul,... he was just a man,... who when pushed to the edge,.. became something else, but that something else,... was STILL just a living breathing human being,.... thats scarry because each and every one of us has the potential to become HITLER in one version/sense or another.
not all of us will rule half of a continant and wipe 6 million jews along with 8 million other persecuted people off the earth in a few short years,.... but ALL OF US have been in that moment and become the person that willfully knowingly destroyed someone else in one way or another, to one degree or another.
thats what is scarry,.... we are all him,... we like to demonize this ONE exceptional example because if we can creat enough seperation from him and us then we can fool ourselves into thinking that we are different,... when just arent much at all,... and THAT is scarryNight terrors are a little more intense than a mere nightmare.
A nightmare is over once consciousness is regained and the brain registers what happened. Night terrors are overwhelming, suffocating lucid dreams that persist once consciousness has returned, often also accompanied by temporary paralysis and auditory hallucinations, and they can last for hours.did you miss my point entirely or are you being obtuse?... i was addressing the OP's linking of Hitler with devil worship and presuposed demonic influences via aledged night terrors,... defining a night terror? really?
i suppose that if one asserts anything they can find even the most outlandish blue print link to substantiate then the assertion will go unchallenged?
out of all that i posted you chose to give the deffinition of a night terror,... smsh,... smacks self in head,... goes to bed in disgust.
Or you can entertain the idea that Hitler was possessed because of his membership of the occult society, the Vril Society
Let us say that Hitler was "possessed" because he chose to take the low road of consciousness instead of the higher, more evolved road. Hitler was evil, pure and simple. He succumbed to the lowest element of himself instead of the highest element. No so-called demon or devil was involved. Hitler had FULL RESPONSIBILITY for his actions.
How do you know demons weren't involved?
I agree. Ego, hatred and control appeared to be a dominant factor in his choices.
Wow, believing in man-made devils and gods in this day and age. What are you all, a bunch of 3rd grade dropouts?
Apparently, it's a fact that those brainwashing techniques still work, despite the fact that we are a much more advanced society than we were thousands of years ago, when these silly stories were written. It seems that evolution is spinning ever so slowly for the human species.
My 14 year old comes home from grade 9 religion class and says they asked the class to write a comment about the scientific significance of Genesis 1. I said "cool". He says "but Dad they only left 2 lines for space for my comment".
He only needs enough room to write "get real" lol
Simple:
Backward, primitive people could not comprehend the extent of the universe, let alone its inception. So they made up a fairy tale with a nice little moral to keep the populace tamed and content.
EDIT: Crap, that's 3 lines. :{
Night Terrors can be attributed to unresolved stress, digestive disturbances, certain medications, and a creative mind. Training ourselves to relax through meditation, and exercise will deplete the excessive negative energy that is stored up in our bodies that needs to be balanced. All this can lead to peaceful sleep.
If Hitler worshipped the devil, why would the devil bother him? What would be the point of bothering someone who worshipped you, wouldn't it make more sense for the devil to be bothering the people that didn't worship him? You're saying the devil bothers people that do and people that don't worship him. Does that make sense really?
Satan doesn't exist, your night terrors are just your mind working overtime. Don't start believing crazy things like the devil exists and visits you. It's a road to worry and too much stress. It isn't real, it doesn't exist, it's just you having nightmares. That's it. Now breathe and relax, go and have a cup of tea and stop worrying.He bothers the evil when he knows there is no way out for them. What could Hitler do against the devil? It's not as if Hitler had a choice once he was possessed by the devil. He hates the good and evil. The devil is not rational.
The biggest trick Satan ever pulled off was making people believe he doesn't exist.Did you just make this up on the spot? Wow!
Maybe the Devil should seek therapy. This sounds like a case for Anger Management. They have accomplished amazing things by redirecting anger. Remember....understanding and rehab, not punishment.
He is no more irrational than the people who believe in him, because they write the script.
So why is it that God is pulling the same trick? Is God evil too, as He has provided no evidence for His existence at all, thereby, making us think that He doesn't exist. Seems God and Satan could be the same person?Getitrite, PLEASE don't argue with Claire, it's pointless. Claire is CLAIRE; she is in HER world and no logical explanation and teaching will change her.
Why would God make a concerted effort to conceal His existence? He made Himself known in the form of Jesus. He makes Himself known to people today. They just know how to interpret the evidence.
How did your god taught you?
How do you know Lucifer is evil?
What evil did Lucifer do?
If natural disasters are from nature and good and evil are from human interaction and as Lucifer cannot communicate with humans, how is Lucifer responsible for anything man does?
Did Lucifer get angry when he found that humans are clothed?
Did Lucifer ask sacrifice?
Did Lucifer let his "son"(who is himself- a pure lie for one is not his own son) killed even though he could prevent it?
Did Lucifer spread the lie that his son who couldn't be killed is dead?
Did Lucifer claim himself as the way and truth?
Did Lucifer ask anybody to worship him?
Did Lucifer drowned humans?
Did anyone worship Lucifer because of good or bad happening to oneself? (But your god get worshipped for both good and bad especially bad though you say he is not responsible).
Really, what is evil if none of the above is evil?He taught me through the Holy Spirit. I had to be taught as a child about the Bible and the Bible is a good reference but it is my personal relationship that teaches me. Whenever I am in a bad situation I hand it over to God and ask for His will to be done. Whatever happens next is from God and you can then see how God delivers us.
The world powers worship Lucifer and they are evil to the core. Lucifer is in direct opposite to Jesus who personifies all that is good and holy. Satan also makes his presence known to those who love Jesus.
Where to start??!! Bad things in my life cause extreme stress. Wanting people to suffer is what makes Lucifer evil. My night terrors is an example. Where does the demonic content in my night terrors come from?
You are assuming Lucifer can't communicate with humans. He is a spiritual entity. He can do these things. If he can't communicate with humans then he cannot teach us wisdom now can he?
Nope, but neither did God.
He demands it, yes.
God could have prevented Jesus' death but then how could Jesus die for our sins then and defeat death by resurrected? How else would His followers be inspired to evangelize.
Of course Jesus could be killed. He was made of flesh and blood.
He claims that he is here to liberate us from an evil god. That is not the way and truth.
Lucifer would love nothing better than the entire world to worship him. That is why a New World Order is in the works. One will then have to worship Lucifer. For example, did you know it is the eye of Lucifer on the United States dollar bill?
Consider this quote:
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." -David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
Revelation speaks of the Anti-Christ forcing people to worship him. People need to be chipped in order to buy and sell.
Aliens did and they serve the devil. Genesis is not a Jewish story or Christian one. It is a pagan one that comes from the Sumerian Tablets.
People worship Lucifer because they think they may achieve mortality and complete global power. It is evil to worship God for bad. Then again, they aren't worshiping God. They are just hiding behind the guise of God. Like the Nazis and Crusaders.Being Satan you expect him to be truthful to you?
Which world power is “evil” to the core? A society gets leaders like themselves, so are all human societies evil? What good did Jesus do? Is lambasting the rich, preaching and glorifying himself “good and holy”? And you expect them to say good things about their archrival?
From your god, where else? Who gets benefited by evils? When evil happen do all people, including you, pray to Lucifer or your god? What good Lucifer gets by giving night terrors to you or any other people?
He was once able to do that doesn’t mean he can always do that? He is less powerful and your god and his angels make sure that he cannot get back. He gave us the means, now it is our job to use it.
And Lucifer is not a spirit but an angel. A spirit is part of the consciousness that make living beings conscious.
According to the bible your god(genesis) got angry.
Then why it is known to none except the followers of your god?
If your god is powerful then he didn’t need to kill neither a human nor a god to defeat death, but if he is trying to create discord and make followers then, yes he should.
He was a mere human, if he were!!
That is the truth. Your god brought all the evil to the world and Lucifer gave us the wisdom to tide over the evil.
Wouldn’t it be more correct if it is “god would love nothing better than the entire world to worship him”? The rest are from the followers of your god. It is the followers of your god who were trying to create a one world order, whether new or old. It is your gods followers who preach and evangelize. It is your god‘s followers who spread lies and does any tricks up their sleeve, including blaming Lucifer and creating sham organizations in the name of Lucifer, to create the New World order.
A few days before you were telling me that natural evils are from nature, now you say it is from devil so which is it? If genesis is from Sumerian then new testament is from Greek and old testament, not original, if the same reasoning is used.
Yea, it is Lucifer who promise heaven and eternal life, if one just eat Lucifer’s flesh or was it wine??!!
Unfortunately you are not consistent. Either your god is responsible for all or he is not responsible for nothing. Either he should be worshipped for everything or he should not be worshipped at all. Anyway people worship irrespective of good or bad and people think more about god if bad happens and it is your god who benefit from bad happening.
But you are right on one count, your god the angel is acting god but is not god and the true god do not need worship. He is not a trader to exchange goods for worship.Those who start war, etc, and are involved in the drug trade like the US government. And quite frankly, I do not believe all of them are human. Jesus treated women and gentiles with respect which is something that most Jewish men would not do. He showed compassion by healing the sick. And what is so bad about preaching the truth? He wants us to be saved from the devil by us loving Him. Arch-rival?
What good does Lucifer get by giving me night terrors? How about fear that he feeds on and how about trying to get me to forsake my God.
Why can't Lucifer communicate with us any more? Does he no longer care? Why not teach wisdom to our world leaders and tell them to stop doing evil? Who teaches you that Lucifer can't come back because of God? If He had that sort of power then I think He'd force the world to worship Him. How did Lucifer impart wisdom in the first place?
No, according to pagan stories that appears as Genesis in the Bible.
He demands it, yes.
So you think the world leaders are going to come out and say, "Hey, we sacrifice babies!"? Satanists are among us but most of the time you wouldn't know it.
Jesus had to come to earth to witness to the truth. People who hate the truth and are threatened by someone who is undermining their power like the Pharisees would want Jesus dead. It was God's permissive will.
In your opinion.
Lucifer failed miserably, obviously. Why can't the lay person access this wisdom?
Then why doesn't God force the world to worship Him? Why rely on mere human followers? Christians hardly can bring in a New World Order. It has been 2000 years now.
Natural disasters occur because the earth is volatile. However, technology exists that can induce natural disasters artificially. Heard of HAARP? Not the whole of the Old Testament is negated although I see very little truth in it. Jesus actually changed the order that happened in the Old Testament.
What power does he have to give us heaven and eternal life if he just an angel? He can't even communicate with us anymore let alone give us eternal life. I don't know anything about claims that we ought to eat his flesh.
You are not consistent. Why should God be responsible for everything? Who made that rule? God loves us so much that He gave us free will and some with that free will have chosen Him and others have chosen the devil. So now my god is an angel?? If He is all powerful as an angel then why isn't Lucifer also as an angel all powerful, too?You haven’t read the passages where Jesus encouraging blind faith in him, where he scolds ‘the lack of faith’ that is utter submission and where he couldn’t perform miracles because his villagers thought him one among them or where 'he intended to pass them by' even though they were in danger?
Hasn’t history taught you anything? Though initially people subject to power they eventually revolt. It is not he who gave free will but Lucifer, the genesis metaphor of snake and apple makes it more than clear. Do you think “daily bread” is all that humans want? And people will simply stand and say ‘hallelujah’ and “anoint the feet’ just for that?
Not it is because your god is evil. World is not evil, evil is created by your god so that people will worship him.
Lucifer “plans”? Don’t make me laugh. When powerful angels of your god are watching over earth Lucifer has no chance. The only chance he got, he made humans human instead of the ‘blind faithful robots’ your god envisioned. And for that he is eternally vilified. Even the beneficiaries of his kind act, us, hate him and praise and worship our enemy. What more can he do? And all the evidences show that it is the followers of your god who tries to make a one world order.
You see I am not an angel to know the ways of angels but I can see that many followers of your god abandon all logic and reason and use ridiculous arguments to support your god.
?? How on the deuce you made out that I said earth is 4000 years old? I said human “civilization” is 4000 years old. That is humans began to build cities and to have literature 4000 years before.
A new world order is here for the last 2000 years and yes it is horrific and though it has lost its teeth its followers are trying to bring it back.
Propaganda by the followers of your god. Any evil attribute it to Lucifer and make your god a saint.
Not with power.
The Roman Empire did collapse all powers will eventually collapse. No aliens who can think have visited the earth in the last two thousand years except may be the angels of your god. Without their permission not even a bacteria can get into the earth. So if any “aliens” wanted Constantine then it is the followers of your god. [it is quite simple, who benefitted by Constantine but your god?]
If people are suspicious, why millions are cheated of their money every year by one or other schemes? People are not suspicious, they are believers. A few people who pointed out the foolishness where eradicated by the followers of your god.
Romans were not happy, then why did Pilate try to save him?
Another lie by your god. Sin need forgiveness and atonement and not death. It need to be forgiven by the one who the sin is committed against. The rest are created by your god to make followers.
So Jesus spiritual domain was intact and it was with god? So what is this separation? Our bodies are nothing but mud; it is our spirit that makes us. You admit it to be nonsense and yes it is nonsense but the followers of your go to such ridiculous ends to create more followers and create a new world order. The twist the meanings of words and use convoluted language to mislead people into believing them there by creating a new world order, the satanic world order.
People believe first and ask proof later if at all they ask; by that time it is too late. They will start create reasons and rationalize their accepted believe just like you are doing now. You know what you say sound like nonsense to anyone who is not indoctrinated, but you use ambiguous words to obfuscate the meaning even to yourself to justify the belief. It is just another Ponzy scheme by your god and you are taken in and you will believe till you are swindled of your last penny no matter what others say.
Paul initially didn’t realize that Jesus was your god’s toy, when he realized he changed track.
What was Judas doing?
He treated them with respect so long they serve his purpose. He did what the present preachers do; stage acted healing to get followers. A government is the representation of its people. If the politicians are corrupt, it is because the people are corrupt.
Lucifer should have some common sense even after all these years to know that sufferings make people turn towards their god (though stories sometime say the contrary), don’t you think? It is your god who benefit by your terrors, it is the reaper who sow.
Lucifer is less powerful than your lord hence he cannot communicate with humans, your god who is the most powerful wouldn’t allow it. Lucifer brought alien DNA to mix with immediate ancestors of Humans.
Satanist are the followers of your god, he is the one who need sacrifice. According to you he sacrificed his own son, didn’t he? If that is not the most gruesome crime then I do not know what is.
Again you are using false language. God wanted jesus killed so that he could get followers.
No, in your opinion. If jesus could be killed he was a mere Human. If jesus is god then he couldn’t be killed, clear?
Because your god has the upper hand. Your god want obedient people not thinking people.
Simple force can’t make people worship for eternity.
So the followers of Lucifer are going to bring it in a few years where your “most powerful god” and his followers failed!!!
What is it, natural disasters natural or artificial? If it is natural, then similarly disease including night terrors is because of deviation in human anatomy and natural agents or a combination of both, no one is responsible. If it artificial then your god being the most powerful and as the one behind every change in earth, is responsible for natural disasters and terrors.
If OT is negated because of “little truth” so is NT. OT contains just as much truth as NT.
Do not understand sarcasm? It is not Lucifer but your god who promised eternal life not Lucifer. Or doesn’t your god promise eternal life? Reason? I already explained –followers.
God is responsible for all things or he is NOT responsible for anything, you cannot simply say ‘those things I like (good) hence my god is responsible and the other things I do not like (bad) hence Lucifer is responsible’. God didn’t give free will that is a false propaganda by your god. And all the crimes you accuse Lucifer is done by your god including sacrifice, why do he need it?
Why Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, the same reason why one human is different from another, do you think you are as strong as Arnold Schwarzenegger?
Give me the exact verses so I can give the right context.
In the case of Jesus, He did not force people to worship Him so why should His followers revolt? Why would Jesus have bothered to have a following when He knows in the end it will flop? Again, that genesis story is lifted off other pagan stories. It has nothing to do with God. In the literal translation of the Old Testament, people rebel against the aliens that have captured them and not God.
As for daily bread, it means He gives us enough. We will not be in want. If we love Him we would not covet things that are more that corrupts us. It doesn't mean I have to live on the bare minimum. We must not ask, "How will I pay the bill? How will I put food on the table for my family?" God will provide for those needs. He will not provide for our greed though.
So you think that someone who rapes automatically must worship God? Let me give you an example of how evil Lucifer is:
"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."
"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
Pike, a Freemason and worshiper of Lucifer, held the office of Chief Justice of the KKK .
That was an extremely evil organization. Freemasonry is about Lucifer worshiper and they rule the world. See how evil governments are.
Poor, poor Lucifer. How hard he is done by! A powerless being would not be appealing to Freemasons.
So now you are not sure how God communicates with humans but you think the followers are in cahoots with a God to deceive people?
But you seem to know the ways of Lucifer.
Sorry, I misread but human civilization is way older. It can be as old as 44 000 years because German flutes were found to be that old. The Chinese civilization is dated back 5000 years. There are structures made that are way older that 4000 years old.
Nope, the New World Order is when one needs to accept a microchip in order to buy or sell and be recognized as a legal entity.
As the Son of God I do not believe it would be so hard to make gentiles follow Him. Eventually gentiles did follow Him but He could have been the head of the world and made everyone worship Him.
What?? Bacteria doesn't need permission from anyone. It doesn't obey instructions. There is such thing as permissive will. Yes, it would serve His purpose to allow Christianity to become worldwide. God wants to reach us to all of us. But on the flipside there is the Vatican that is the Whore of Babylon. The false prophet will come from the Vatican.
You are suspicious of a Ponzy scheme right? Why? Because you have heard of the stories of scams. The truth of the matter is that people have heard of Ponzy schemes because they are advertised. The resurrection was not advertised and people knew no one else that was resurrected. People didn't know that there was a chance they could benefit unlike those who take chances with a Ponzy Scheme.
You mean, why did Pilate try to save Jesus? He could have been touched by Jesus and not think He deserved death and he could not have appreciated being backed into a corner by the Jews and tried everything to undermine the Jewish authorities. Could have been an ego thing.
As I said, sin leads to eternal death. Jesus took on our sin so that we could be forgiven if we truly repent. For Jesus to have conquered evil then it means we can be saved from hell because God can forgive the worse kind of evil. If God couldn't, Jesus would have been lost in hell forever as well as us.
Let's put it to you this way. If someone told you that your neighbour had risen from the dead and you witnessed the death and there was a prophecy he would rise from the dead, would you not try and see him for yourself or would you just accept it as true and follow a new religion based on his death and resurrection?
What was in it for Paul?
I don't understand what you mean.
Out of interest sake, where is your proof that Jesus was a con artist? Where did you get your beliefs from?
Actually many people who suffer blame God for their troubles and abandon Him. Many atheists say they cannot appreciate a God who does nothing about suffering in the world.
He cannot communicate with humans but teaches us wisdom, right? That's a contradiction. I do agree with Lucifer brought aliens DNA to mingle with our own.
There is a difference between laying down your life for people like Jesus did and sacrificing to appease the gods.
No.
You aren't listening to what I am saying. If God took on the role of the Son who came in the flesh then He can die. All flesh dies. But God as the Holy Spirit can never die.
Lucifer sounds like a pathetic creature to me.
Then why does God bother? Why get followers just so that they desert him later on. He is a powerful entity. He doesn't need covert means to get followers. He can just take over the human brain and force us to worship Him.
Who is the prince of this world? Lucifer. Therefore powerful people who follow him have the means to usher in this world order. The followers of Jesus do not have the power to take over world governments.
They are both natural and "artificial". Satanists have concocted diseases in their laboratories. In ancient times aliens did. Disease is a form of population control. God is not behind every change of earth. Both God and Satan have power on this earth. They most likely were co-creators of the universe. It's your opinion that the NT has little truth.
If God is a god of love and holiness then it would be so fitting to link good with him. Satan is a deity of evil so it is logical to associate all things bad with him. If Lucifer was a pathetic helpless angel then he would not be worshiped as a god.
There have been so many great responses already but no one can truly say for sure. It is impossible!
I will tell you that my young son had night terrors for a very long time. At was at my wits end and did not know what to do for him.
My hubby is from a Greek Orthodox background and he placed a St George Icon above my sons bed.
It has now been nearly 2 months and my son has not had one night terror!
Is it a coincidence? I was very skeptical at first but it did and continues to work. I am starting to believe that a higher power made this happen.That is no coincidence. I'm happy your son has found peace.
It has another meanings. They don't have time bit still want to appreciate you. m i right claire?
WHAT DO YOU THINK.....? ASK THE GOVERNMENT. ARE THE PRESIDENT A LETTER AND SEE WHAT HE SAY.
THEY LOOK LIKE THE SAME BRAND AND BUT DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION AND LIGHT DIMMERS.
That is an interesting question and makes me think deep hard on my visions that are nightmarish at times.
Nonetheless, devil continuously is in work to perturb human beings. His army of darkness would do anything to do that. Our pain is his happiness, remember!- True Havenposted 8 years ago0
there's someone by the name 'sue brinkmann,' who knows a think or two about such stuff. perhaps you could look her up online; there are interviews of her on youtube
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